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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1178: Connor Beaton | How Society Engineered a Generation of Lonely Men
01:35:22
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- [00:00]
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- [01:03]
Connor Baten
If your job at a healthcare facility.
- [01:04]
Jordan Harbinger
Includes disinfecting against viruses, you know prevention is the best medicine. And maintaining healthy spaces starts with a healthy cleaning routine. Grainger's world class supply chain helps ensure you have the quality products you need when you need them, from disinfectants and cleaning supplies to personal protective equipment so you can help deliver a clean bill of health. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgranger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, spies, CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers and performers, even the occasional hacker, real life pirate, cold case homicide investigator or hostage negotiator. If you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about it, I suggest our episode Starter Packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com start or search for us in your Spotify app. To get started today on the show, a long Overdue episode with my friend Connor Baten. He's the founder of mantalks, a men's mental health company. He's a smart dude. We've been friends for years. Had a lot of offline conversations that have been particularly insightful. And I wanted to share some of.
- [02:37]
Guest Speaker
That with you all here as well.
- [02:39]
Jordan Harbinger
Today we explore the loneliness epidemic in men. Fatherless boys, the decline in dating and relationships, of course, with both genders. AI, girlfriends, incels porn, brain. And of course, my favorite subject recently, I guess, dicks. Yes. A girthy tangent into the obsession over penis size and a whole lot more. Here we go with Connor Baten.
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Guest Speaker
Thanks for doing this on short notice, man. I know we've been planning to do this for about eight years.
- [03:08]
Connor Baten
A hot minute, man. A hot minute. I'm just glad to be here.
- [03:11]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, let's talk about arson, incels and dicks. That's what we got today.
- [03:17]
Connor Baten
That was great.
- [03:18]
Guest Speaker
Yeah. It's funny because I'm not actually joking. That's all in the notes.
- [03:22]
Connor Baten
It was in the notes. Lots of stats. My wife was like, why do you have a stat about repeat arsonists? And I was like, well, because it fits in on the whole macro picture of kids without fathers.
- [03:36]
Guest Speaker
I thought that was really interesting because I grew up in Detroit or the Detroit area. And every. There's something called Devil's Night, which I don't even know if it exists outside of Detroit, but it's the night before Halloween, I think, and it is a massive arson night where tons of buildings, at least in the 80s and 90s, used to get burnt down. Really? Yeah. And usually abandoned buildings. But the problem with abandoned buildings in Detroit is people still live in them. You don't really know if it's abandoned. There could be homeless, you know, unhoused people living in there. There could be families with kids living in there because they're like, oh, this house isn't so bad. We'll just live in here rent free until dad gets another job. It doesn't have electricity, but who cares? You know, there's a lot or they does have electricity and gas, right? So, like, somebody will go in there and just burn it down, not realizing there's a family that lives in the basement. So why would you do this? I used to light things on fire when I was a kid, but it was like wooden sticks, boxes.
- [04:25]
Connor Baten
There's a very renowned story in my family that I reached a certain age and I started lighting everything on fire. Like, I got these rocket engines. Oh, yeah. Super fun. I attached them to my sister's Barbie car. And I was trying to like, create a rocket. And so I strung the wire back up to the deck and me and my buddy, like, lit it up and I thought this rock was going to like, you know, you know, up a couple feet. But instead it just blew up and like disintegrated the Barbie car that it was strapped to and then blew apart the fireplace outside that it was inside of. And then the other story is spraying pine cones with crappy $5 musk that like one of my aunts gave to me and lighting them on fire and then hawking them at my sister.
- [05:06]
Guest Speaker
Oh, that's terrible. I was with you. I think it's a very throwing.
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Connor Baten
It's a very like common. She was riding by on her bicycle, right? No, no siblings were hurt in this story.
- [05:14]
Guest Speaker
That's.
- [05:15]
Connor Baten
Yeah. You know, I think it's very common. You know, there's, there's this thing called young man syndrome, you know, Young man syndrome. Young man syndrome is this period of time where the highest mortality rates happen, the highest suicide rates happen, the highest injury rates happen for young men. And it's between the ages of 16 and 26.
- [05:34]
Guest Speaker
That's a long time. Right. Ten years that you can do a lot of damage.
- [05:37]
Connor Baten
You do a lot of damage. But I think that's this period of time where young men are trying to sort out their relationship, to risk taking relationships and sex, their own identity. And we have a very externalized way of trying to sort those things out. You know, it's not like an internal process. It's usually not a social process. It's like I gotta go out into the world and try and grapple with who am I, and who am I socially and contextually within the world. And a lot of the times that leads to us doing really stupid things. You know, I was 19 and bought 1000cc motorcycle.
- [06:12]
Guest Speaker
I was going to say it's these guys who ride bikes. No helmet.
- [06:14]
Connor Baten
Right.
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Guest Speaker
Highway. And they're, they're lane splitting and you're like, you know that if you hit like a rock, you're dead. You're a meat cran.
- [06:21]
Connor Baten
It's over.
- [06:21]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, it's over. And even with a helmet, what if someone is still doing this at like age, I don't know, 45, asking for a friend.
- [06:30]
Connor Baten
Yeah. I mean, there's probably a certain propensity towards trying to feel alive through taking risks.
- [06:37]
Jordan Harbinger
Just a risk.
- [06:37]
Guest Speaker
There's a whole like finding my identity, trying on new things. Yeah, I feel like I'm still doing that. I'M not doing as many dangerous things.
- [06:44]
Connor Baten
Well, that's fair.
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Guest Speaker
Okay.
- [06:45]
Connor Baten
A lot of the times this is a whole different subject. But what we psychologically do with things like trauma and abuse and abandonment and attachment issues is there's a whole bunch of ways that we have maladaptive strategies to try and deal with the pain and the suffering that can coincide with that. So for some people, they sexualize those wounds and they try and explore them and figure them out by different risky sexual behaviors. And then for other people, they will take crazy risks with money, or they'll take crazy risks with gambling or relationships or in their career. And so some of those things can show up in that way. But I think what you're talking about is just kind of like a normal. I'm trying to figure out who I am, you know, I'm trying to figure out what's my purpose, what's my function in the world. And I think that's a big question for a lot of men who feel very rudderless in today's society when we see this like, collapse of young men in today's society.
- [07:39]
Guest Speaker
I want to talk about loneliness first, I think, because the loneliness epidemic, it seems very real. I. I'm ashamed to admit this. I thought it was kind of a BS thing because I 2020 hindsight, I probably did experience it, but I forgot about it. And also a lot of my friends never talked about it. But the more I talk with men who are fans of, for example, in our advice inbox on Fridays or just online or just even on Reddit. And look, this is an online forum, so it self selects a little bit for maybe people that are online all the time and are lonelier. But I see and hear about this constantly. Guys feel like they have very few. And your stats that you sent me, many guys feel like they have no close friends. That's actually almost hard to believe. It's hard to wrap my mind around that.
- [08:19]
Connor Baten
I think in the broader context when we sort of pull back, a lot of the male oriented spaces have collapsed over the last couple decades.
- [08:26]
Guest Speaker
What is a male oriented space?
- [08:28]
Connor Baten
It's like places that are just for boys and men to gather things like Boy Scouts. It's not just boys anymore.
- [08:35]
Guest Speaker
It's co ed now.
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Connor Baten
It's co ed.
- [08:36]
Guest Speaker
Is that a bad thing though? Let me pause on that because I'm a, you know, as an Eagle Scout. It seems cool that you can do that with your son and your daughter.
- [08:44]
Connor Baten
Yeah, I mean, I think that we do need co EDspaces. 100%, no doubt. And throughout the course of human history, young boys have had spaces where they've learned and grappled how to be young men. And in many ways, manhood and even masculinity to some degree, is something that is modeled for a young man. And so when we collapse those spaces where young men learn, here's how I deal with anger, here's how I deal with power, here's how I deal with feeling powerless, here's how I interact with women, here's how I be a good citizen. When those spaces start to collapse, a young man is left with a vacuum or a vacancy of learning how to go through this transitory period between being a boy and then being a teenager and then being a man and the responsibilities that come along with that and the expectations that come along with that. And I think we've gone through this transition where for a period of time, we told men, this is exactly how you have to be. You have to fit into this box and fit into this mold. It was constrictive, and then that shifted. And for the last decade or two, how manhood and masculinity has been formed is, here's all the things that you shouldn't do, don't do any of those things. Don't be any of these things. But we haven't actually created direction for men. And so for a lot of guys, they fill in the gaps with charismatic online personalities that are very enticing that fill that void. You know, we do need some of these spaces because young men are going to go through these periods where they're looking for advice. And one of the things that I sent you is just the impact of fatherless homes.
- [10:18]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, we can get into that in a minute. I do want to stick on the loneliness thing because it's really terrifying. 15% of men report having no close friends in 1990. That was 3% in. If you had no friends in 1990. I mean, I don't know anybody. Well, I guess they didn't have any friends, so why would I know them? But. But I feel like there weren't that many guys that seemed chronically lonely. All of us played together, right? Among men aged 18 to 24, 28% say they have no close friends. In contrast, only 10% of women report the same. So women are doing much better on this front. In 2020, Harvard found 61% of men had felt serious loneliness in the past month. Yes, that's really damning. I don't think that existed when I was younger. I could just be wrong. But it looks like the data supports that one in five men could not identify a best friend. I don't think I've ever had this situation in my whole life.
- [11:08]
Connor Baten
Yeah, me either.
- [11:09]
Guest Speaker
27% of men said they had a best friend they could talk to about personal issues. That's really sad. I mean, this is like 75% of guys don't have anybody they can talk to about personal issues.
- [11:18]
Connor Baten
These are a lot of the men that you see on the online forums that are trying to get some advice and some grasp on how to actually just operate as a human being in the world. You know, how to be social, how to interact with people at the coffee shop, not, not like, never mind going up and, you know, asking somebody else for their phone number or going on a date, but just basic social things. And there's a lot of contributing factors to this. I do think not having fathers in the home has impacted this for sure. I think obviously the rise of social media has made it so much easier for people that are naturally more introverted, that have higher levels of social anxiousness and anxiety to not have to deal with the stress, to just never do anything, of just never doing anything. But then also there is this correlation for young boys that the more that they are incentivized to take risks, the more healthy and integrated they are in society. Healthy risks, not like dangerous, you know, death defying risk.
- [12:14]
Guest Speaker
What's a healthy risk? Like asking a girl on a date? Is that asking a girl on a.
- [12:18]
Connor Baten
Date, risking rejection, like taking the risk sometimes to join a sports team, taking a risk to go up to another guy at the gym, you know, in high school, and start up a conversation, Then maybe a friendship develops out of that. Talking to another guy at a party, you know, over a drink and just striking up a conversation. Those are just little social risks that a lot of young men have not been taught to take and they've not been incentivized to take. And so slowly it's chipped away at their capacity to even have some of these normalized social skills. And then I think the other thing is we have replaced relationship in a big way with technology, right? So I worked at Apple for a period of time and oversaw some of the retail stores in British Columbia. And I remember being in the retail store and seeing kids that are like 2, 3 years old just on iPads. And I think we've gone through this generation where instead of being relational and learning how to regulate your nervous system and just be with unwanted emotions anytime that happens, what we see is young boys and young girls Turning towards technology as a kind of salve, as a kind of digital soother for themselves when their system is upset. And I think when you look at porn usage is another good example.
- [13:32]
Guest Speaker
Yeah. I want to talk about, you know.
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Connor Baten
Young men use that, or men in general really use that as a method to soothe themselves. And this creates even more loneliness because you have access to just so much.
- [13:43]
Guest Speaker
Let's get into that. I want to drop these last few stats. Men are five times more likely to say they have no close friends than they were in 1990.
- [13:50]
Connor Baten
Yes.
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Guest Speaker
25% of men say they have five or more close friends. So 75% of men don't have five or more close friends. It's insane to me.
- [13:57]
Connor Baten
Well, do you have any, like. Do you have any notions? Yeah. Do you have any friends, Jordan?
- [14:04]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
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Connor Baten
Are you one of those?
- [14:06]
Guest Speaker
Don't know them.
- [14:07]
Connor Baten
I know. Yeah. We're fellow Canadians. I forgot about that.
- [14:10]
Guest Speaker
I'm looking at. I'm from Michigan, so I'm Canadian with shitty healthcare. So in America. I have to explain this joke now. In America, if somebody was like, hey, man, you don't. You're a loser. You don't have a girlfriend. The most common lie in Michigan anyway was she lives in Canada or she lives in Ohio or goes to a different school and you don't know her. And so it became this meme as we became adults where somebody would be.
- [14:30]
Jordan Harbinger
Like, hey, man, how long has it.
- [14:32]
Guest Speaker
Been since you've been out of work? And I'll be like, someone will go, he has a job. But it's in Canada. That's a job. It's in Ohio. You don't know the company. Never heard of the company and. Or like, hey, man, are you dating anyone? She lives in Canada, so it's just because it's such a transparent lie. Yeah, no, I'm. I'm from Michigan, so I'm actually south. You're based north of parts of Canada.
- [14:50]
Connor Baten
You're adopted Canadian.
- [14:51]
Guest Speaker
Yes. You're adopted, Canadian. A Canadian that can't get.
- [14:53]
Connor Baten
Did you. Did you, when you turned 18, go across the border and go to strip clubs and bars?
- [14:57]
Guest Speaker
Yes. Only when I was 18, though. Not when I was 16 and had a really shitty fake ID that said I was 18.
- [15:02]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
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Guest Speaker
Because I couldn't pass for 21. And then you go to Windsor and you buy beer at Jokers or whatever and on Windsor. Or you go to some strip club and the girls are just like, are you a child? Because you look like a child.
- [15:13]
Connor Baten
You have no facial hair whatsoever and no money. I at least had like the big sideburns at 16, so I could somewhat pass.
- [15:20]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
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Connor Baten
As an 18 year old.
- [15:22]
Guest Speaker
Not me.
- [15:22]
Jordan Harbinger
Although I didn't get in trouble.
- [15:24]
Guest Speaker
You know what, actually I must have passed because when you come back over the border, customs agents were always like doing any drinking in Canada and they, they didn't bug me at all.
- [15:32]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
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Guest Speaker
So I must have looked like maybe I was legally able to drink in Canada.
- [15:36]
Connor Baten
But imagine being a 16 year old, 17 year old, 18 year old kid. Yeah. And having zero friends to go and do what you and I are talking about.
- [15:44]
Guest Speaker
I know that's.
- [15:45]
Connor Baten
And it doesn't have to be that, like, I'm not talking about like every young man needs to go to the strip club and drink booze and do that kind of shit. Like that's what I'm talking about.
- [15:51]
Guest Speaker
Turn out to be a waste of time.
- [15:52]
Connor Baten
But, but you know, just like the roaming around on bicycles and you know, trying to figure one another out and like who you are.
- [15:59]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [16:00]
Connor Baten
And our identity psychologically is social in its nature. And so part of our psychological development actually requires other people. So to know who you are, you also have to be in relationship with other people because they mirror back parts of you. So it's an important developmental piece that, you know, I think a lot of young kids are missing out on. But I'm curious, do you have insight into what you think is causing so many young boys to collapse in their relationships?
- [16:28]
Guest Speaker
There was a post in our subreddit, the Jordan Harbinger subreddit, about why don't men approach women more and more? One of the guys, and this is the most upvoted thing, said, because when we do that, we get called creepy. And now instead of just being rejected, it can affect your career, it can affect your school, your reputation at school. The risk is way too high. It could be filmed, you could be trolled on TikTok for it. And this has happened, I guess, to a few people in the sub. The subreddit. And that's really scary because first of all, I remember trying to approach women when I was in my 20s and it was very difficult and no one had a smartphone. You didn't have to. That moment in time alone, as ephemeral as it was, was terrifying enough. And so most guys wouldn't do it and eventually you'd get over it and it would be fine. And if you really made an ass of yourself, you just don't go to that bar again or something like that. Or, you know, probably that would never even be a Concern. Now, the concern is you are immortalized forever in this moment where you did something silly and it spreads like wildfire and it literally poisons your entire your job prospects or your academic career. So a lot of guys don't do things like that anymore, which is really sad. So the risk has become really high and guys are just saying things like, it's too risky, it doesn't make any sense. And then of course, you also have apps now that guys can sort of hide behind where they're like, nobody meets by approaching anyway, so they use apps. I'd love to talk about the apps because you mentioned in the stats here. A recent poll on Bumble, one of these dating apps for people who don't know shows that only 15% of women say that they'd be willing to date the men under 5 foot 8. Yeah, guys right now who are 5 foot 7 are like or under are freaking out. However, I think the reason that this is important to qualify and you can tell me if I'm just spouting BS here, this is in a vacuum. It'd be like somebody saying, hey, Jordan, would you rather date somebody that's super hot and rich or just one of those things? And I would go, oh, yeah, I would like to date somebody that's super hot and rich. Because then I have a super high girlfriend who's rich. Let's say I was married, right?
- [18:26]
Jordan Harbinger
So that's the preference. But it's like if I just met.
- [18:28]
Guest Speaker
Somebody that I liked, none of those other things would matter anymore. So this height thing, guys see that and go, I'm doomed because I don't fit this preference. I'm now looking at this 15% of women. And then let's look the ones that are married and let's take out the ones that I'm not attracted to. Oh, great. Now I'm only going to be looking at 0.0001% of the women in this app are going to match with me. And that's just not how it works. I will also say when I was younger and not married, I asked women how tall they thought I was after knowing them for a while. Almost every girl said 6ft tall. I'm 5 foot 10 with shoes on. Even when I am next to them and they know how tall they are, they overestimated my height if I wasn't standing right in front of them in the moment. So what that told me was, it doesn't really matter. It's more of a feeling they're not actually going, well, let's Stand against the wall and see how tall you are. I dated women that were taller than me, and they would say things like, you're not that much shorter. Or they would say, no, we're the same height. And I'm like, I literally can do this on top of my head, and I'm still not as tall as you. What planet are you on?
- [19:32]
Jordan Harbinger
And it just.
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Guest Speaker
It was like a more of an emotional decision that I just wasn't shorter than them. That was it. I couldn't convince them with a ruler.
- [19:38]
Connor Baten
So there's a couple of important things here. One, dating apps are designed for us to prioritize our preferences.
- [19:45]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [19:46]
Connor Baten
And the reality is that when you're in the real world, sometimes your preferences are more malleable and fluid than is this guy 5 foot 8. If he's funny, if he's charismatic, if you find him attractive, if there's just like, an inherent spark with him, that whole, like, is he 5 foot 8? Goes out the window, and it's completely irrelevant. The other thing is that obviously, men and women, we have our insecurities, and those things show up in the dating apps, and those things show up in our fear of rejection and all those different pieces. One of the main things that I found is really interesting in a lot of the research around relationships, specifically in the area that you're talking about, is that our perception of what it is that women want is often a little bit different than what it is that they desire. And the other thing is that what we think women want, for example, in height or in something like, we're going to talk about this size of your penis. The size of penis is often way different than we as guys think. And so a lot of this has nothing really to do with the average female choice and preference, but more to do with sometimes our insecurities and our fears of being tall enough, being whatever it is, girthy enough, like, God, am.
- [20:57]
Guest Speaker
I going to say that word? Yeah, you're going to say, I'm going.
- [20:58]
Connor Baten
To say that word on the podcast. Yeah. But those things actually don't match up. And so when you look at the research, women will say sometimes, like, for example, the 15% will be under 5 foot 8. But if you get them into a socialist situation and there's a guy that's 5 foot 6 or 5 foot 7, and he's charismatic and funny, or he's just lovable or he's attractive, that doesn't matter at all to them. And it really starts to fade away. Are there some women that are still Like, I won't date a guy that's under 6ft tall. Sure, but maybe that's not your cup of tea.
- [21:27]
Guest Speaker
Anyway, I think a lot of women outgrow that. Man, you just remind me, when I was in law school, we were moving out of a house, and we had to move some of the previous tenants crap, like furniture. They just left it there. The landlord was like, oh, maybe these guys don't want it. We didn't want it. We moved one of the beds, and we found a diary of a woman who was in a sorority. And of course, we read that because we didn't know her. So it was like, look, this is going to be fascinating. She had a whole bunch on how all the pressure from her girls in her sorority was on dating taller guys, but she only connected with guys that were shorter. And she was eaten up inside about this because she didn't care, but she had all this pressure, and she's like, my goal is after school to just forget about how the whole pressure thing and just go for the guys that I like. But I can't do it now because the girls would make fun of her, which is ridiculous. Like, the dumbest thing ever. I know that sort of disproves part of our point about preferences, but it also shows you that the social pressure for this stuff, even when you know it's dumb and you're trying to outgrow it, it's really tough. I had a buddy who married a really attractive woman who was taller than him. And I remember someone said, like, in front of him, we were all cool with this. We were like, so it doesn't matter that you're taller than him? And she's like, well, he's really hot. Oh, he's really smart. He's really funny. All these things are true. And this is law school. It's all full of, like, smart people. And she goes, he's not that much shorter. And it was like she was probably 5, 9, 5, 10, maybe even taller, and he was probably 5 4. This is a significant height difference. This was not like, oh, it's an inch shorter. I mean, it was noticeable, especially if she was wearing heels. I mean, it was just like, wow, okay, you're now wife is so much taller than you. So it was such a fascinating thing because while it's a preference, the behavior doesn't necessarily match the preference outside of the vacuum. And the problem with apps is you can filter so that you don't even see the people that don't fall in that preference, where you're you end up cheating yourself like crazy, right? Because you can say like, oh, I only want, let's say I only want a guy in this income level. But since it's a light preference and you wouldn't care about it in reality, now you're just only seeing people in that particular income level and you go, there's nobody on here that I click with. Okay, well, you did select millionaires only, and you're wondering why they're all shallow a holes who are looking for models on an app.
- [23:37]
Connor Baten
I think we as men often conflate norms with the rules, right? And so there are norms, right? There are like normal ideal preferences that a lot of women do have. Most women, if you ask them, they do want a man that's taller than them. Yeah, that is true. That's just statistically true. However, that's not a rule with no exceptions.
- [23:57]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [23:58]
Connor Baten
And I think that we as men sometimes we have this very like linear process to these types of things where it's like, that's just the way that every single woman is. Because we want this very calculated, very linear process that helps us just kind of feel safe within the dating world, Right. That allows us to be like, oh, if that woman's taller than me, then I shouldn't even bother approaching because she's not going to find me attractive. And those norms don't help us actually get into relationships. I have the exact same story. I know a woman who's six feet tall and her husband is like five foot seven. Whoa.
- [24:29]
Guest Speaker
Okay.
- [24:30]
Connor Baten
And when they started dating and they've been together for a long time, they've got two kids, they met in college and same thing, she had a lot of pressure that was internalized, Right. She was like, you know, should I be doing this and what will other people think? And you know, there was other, other questions from her friends of like, don't you want a guy that's taller than you? And she just kind of had to say like, I actually genuinely love this guy. He makes me feel everything that I want to feel. And so it doesn't matter how tall he is.
- [24:57]
Guest Speaker
Right.
- [24:57]
Connor Baten
She kind of owns it in the sense that, you know, she wears like three inch heels still. So she's like six foot two, six foot three, and it's just like that's how the marriage is, right.
- [25:06]
Guest Speaker
What's interesting about this is guys have a choice how they respond to this, right? Like, he could have gone, you gotta wear flat shoes only. I'm gonna wear these, I don't know, whatever. Shoes that have big Sole on right. Lips. Yeah, lips.
- [25:15]
Connor Baten
I got some lifts in there.
- [25:17]
Guest Speaker
And then also, I know a lot of women back when high school and college, they used to slouch because they were like, I don't want to be taller than the guys that are there because they won't talk to me. My friend Kalini used to do this all the time. We used to make fun of her. She actually had, like, a postural issue because she was constantly slouching.
- [25:31]
Connor Baten
Slaps in. Yeah.
- [25:31]
Guest Speaker
Then there's the other guys who.
- [25:33]
Jordan Harbinger
I mean, this is how I sort.
- [25:35]
Guest Speaker
Of chose to respond to it, because I've attracted these taller women. I was like, no, be this giant Amazon. Like, I want people to look at us and go like, what the hell? You know, I used to say things like, don't make me come up there if you get sassy with me. You know? And like, it was interesting.
- [25:47]
Jordan Harbinger
One day I met one of her.
- [25:48]
Guest Speaker
Exes and this dude was legitimately like, 6 foot 7.
- [25:51]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [25:51]
Guest Speaker
And he was like, oh, you're dating this short guy who's drunk, Right? So he's a major a hole. Actually, this is early on. This is probably like our third date or something. And I was like, oh, man. So I didn't feel bad because I can't get taller. So I'm not going to let this dude emasculate me. But I wasn't. I was like, you know what? I'm going to meet you inside. You handle your business. I'm not going to sit here and get abused in front of this girl from this guy. And I figured it's either over with and this is going to be like a big thing or whatever. She came in and she was like, I am so sorry. That guy is. He's a terrible person. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. She's in. Later on in our relationship, she's like, you handled that the exact right way. Because I was so embarrassed. I didn't want you to have to see what I did next. And I was like, what was that? Because I did. I was looking at the window because I was like, what? They make out? I'm out of here. Right? And she. She tore him a new asshole. And the next time we ran into him at that bar, she was like, don't fricking talk to me. And he just, like, ran out, like, tail between his legs. He actually was the one who felt emasculated because he was like, wait, I got dumped for this fricking little shit, you know? And so you really have a choice at how you can respond to this. But I also really understand why guys, they're just on thin ice. Right. With a lot of this insecurity. It's not only height you mentioned earlier. And I'm going to blame you for this penis preference studies where I like.
- [27:05]
Connor Baten
That I just sent you just like this massive. Yeah.
- [27:08]
Guest Speaker
Arson dicks and you know, incels. It's just the trifecta. But this was fascinating because I did look this up and I did a bunch. I went down a girthy rabbit hole. Girth, rabbit hole length and stuff, among others.
- [27:22]
Connor Baten
Girth, rabbit hole.
- [27:25]
Guest Speaker
And the unfortunate news was like the preference for women was still well above average. Which is kind of funny because it doesn't make sense if you look at the fact that we still exist and have not evolved to like, only men with larger dicks have not been the ones that reproduce. So this preference is already a little bit suspect.
- [27:43]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [27:43]
Guest Speaker
But then when you look into the data more, because I was like, wait a minute, I need background on this. It turns out that when you rank the preferences women were choosing, I think it was like they wanted 6.4 inch penis for short term relationships and 6.3 for, for long term relationships.
- [27:59]
Connor Baten
Yeah, you got it.
- [28:00]
Jordan Harbinger
Yeah.
- [28:00]
Guest Speaker
And so it's basically the same, but most men are like five or five and a half. That's the average globally. And I think in the United states it's like 5 to 5.8 or something like that. I'm going off memory here. And so like all the guys in this comment section of wherever these things are posted are like, oh my God, I'm screwed. Or c. Yeah. Or that's why I need this pump or whatever. So they go crazy. But then when you look and you do further investigation, when they rank the size, it's like number 11 before that is like, how fun is the guy? How does he make me feel? How smart is he? Height is in there? Is he, Are we compatible in other ways? Is he good looking? Is, you know, income is high. And it's like, oh, this is my preference. But in the preference range of preferences, this is way at the bottom. It's kind of like, would you rather shop at Target or Walmart? And if you just say 97% of people said Target, you're like, oh my God, Walmart's gonna go out of business. Oh. But that was the 87th thing that was most important about which store at. So actually it doesn't matter almost at all. So I found that to be really fascinating. And I'm saying all this Because I don't want my short kings out there to get in their heads when these pieces of info are far from definitive. When it comes to your dating life, a lot of these surveys are done in a vacuum and it's basically bro science.
- [29:18]
Connor Baten
Yes. And I think that there's also an overemphasis that we as men put on those parts of our body.
- [29:25]
Guest Speaker
Penis size is almost exclusively a guy thing, by the way.
- [29:28]
Jordan Harbinger
I researched this.
- [29:29]
Guest Speaker
Women were like, what? And guys are like, well, if I'm stretched this and bone press that and like the girth is this. But when it's this and if it's warm outside, if it's above 28 degrees.
- [29:38]
Connor Baten
If there's a light breeze just hitting the tip at the exact right time, it's. It's at full mass.
- [29:44]
Guest Speaker
Exactly. And they're like, is it bone pressed or is like, how hard do I.
- [29:47]
Jordan Harbinger
Press on the thing?
- [29:47]
Guest Speaker
Because if I do it, I get another 2 millimeters out of it and it's like none of it ends up being relevant. And all these forums I'm going to out myself here, but I did a lot of Reddit research. There's. There's these like big dick problems, subreddits, where you think it's going to be a bunch of guys bragging. And mostly it's like guys who are trying to hide the bulge because they're suffering work consequences when they do presentations or they're losing clients or they like can't have sex with anyone because they have a giant dong.
- [30:13]
Connor Baten
Right.
- [30:14]
Guest Speaker
And it's like, oh, this is almost as bad as having something that's too small. Like there's anything on the extremes is actually really bad.
- [30:21]
Connor Baten
Well, if you look at the data around, if a woman breaks up with a man or divorces a man because he has a small penis is actually quite small.
- [30:29]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [30:29]
Connor Baten
You know, not the penis, but the actual, like the divorces and the separations. It's a very small amount because it's just not that big of a deal. I often, when I look at this data, I often wonder what would that data be like pre dildos and pre Internet, where you can see the comparison. The largest penises on the planet. Right. And so it's probably different 50, 60 years ago, but you know, it is what it is today. And I think when men put so much emphasis on that, it just creates such deep insecurity. When you look at the data and the research body dysmorphia amongst men is starting to skyrocket and it's really crazy, you know, you have men getting leg extensions to get.
- [31:11]
Guest Speaker
I know. I was going to mention that.
- [31:12]
Connor Baten
Breaking their femurs and installing these plates that they have to ratchet up and, you know, going to Turkey to get hair transplants. And there's penis injections that they're now getting for to have a larger, you know, girthier penis. And it's like a form of Botox.
- [31:26]
Guest Speaker
I'm researching this right now. It's so funny you mention it. Bocox is right. One of the names.
- [31:31]
Connor Baten
No, no, no.
- [31:32]
Jordan Harbinger
Or Scrotox, which is not exactly on.
- [31:34]
Guest Speaker
The nose because it goes in the penis and not into the scrotum. I am doing a show on penile enhancement, and one of the doctors from this clinic called Upsize is like, a really good authority on all this stuff. And he's like, come in and get it. I'll hook you up and you can see if it works and talk about it on your show. So I am going in on Saturday. No way to get Bococks done.
- [31:55]
Connor Baten
No way.
- [31:56]
Guest Speaker
Here's the thing. The results, if they don't lie to you, are supposed to be, like, really modest. It's, like, not a big deal. And the reason, it's also temporary. Otherwise I would never consider doing it because I looked up everything that can go wrong, and it's, like, pretty much nothing because Botox is pretty medium. So never let it be said we don't go the extra inch for the cigarette.
- [32:14]
Connor Baten
Yeah, you're really going.
- [32:15]
Guest Speaker
Or the extra centimeter in this case.
- [32:16]
Connor Baten
The extra inch.
- [32:17]
Guest Speaker
Yeah. It's far from a. So apparently you can. It, like, adds, like, maybe a centimeter. And candidly, one of the doctors was like. And that's if it actually does anything. Because for some guys, it just, like, doesn't do much or doesn't do anything.
- [32:29]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [32:30]
Guest Speaker
It also relaxes some stuff, so it's like firmer erections, yada, yada, yada. So it's not about a lengthening thing. But the other stuff that they offer at this place and other places that I've researched at this place called Upsize, he only does, like, filler, which is, like the filler that people get in their lips. He'll put it in someone's penis. But there's other clinics that do, like, silicon sheets and stuff. That stuff is so dangerous. Yes, because the complication rate is, like, 5%. And look, if you had a complication rate from removing a fingernail of 5%, it's probably an infection. And like, worst case, you lose your fingernail.
- [33:02]
Jordan Harbinger
What happens when they have to remove.
- [33:03]
Guest Speaker
A silicon sheath from your penis. You don't magically regrow that tissue. You just have a scarred, disfigured dick for the rest of your life. Right?
- [33:11]
Connor Baten
Not worth it, not worth it, not worth it.
- [33:13]
Guest Speaker
So, like, all the stuff that does extreme different stuff, and even that, by the way, won't make it longer. It just makes it girthier. Such an awkward word. And guys will do this and this Dr. Joel Pash, he's really honest. He's like, guys will come in and say, oh, I'm doing this for my wife. And he's like, no, you're not.
- [33:30]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [33:31]
Jordan Harbinger
He's like, you want to do something for your wife?
- [33:32]
Guest Speaker
Take her to Paris. Do that for your wife. Don't spend your vacation budget on a half inch girthier penis that she doesn't care about. Like, if you have a super unhappy sex life because you have a really small member, okay, now it's like you're into like a medical kind of thing where it's like, eh, you know, but if you're like in the average and you just want a monster dong, that's for you. Don't lie and say it's for your wife. She married you already, right? Obviously you had some sexual compatibility. If you can't get a date at all because you have a three incher, okay, like, do what you can.
- [34:07]
Connor Baten
I'm sitting here thinking about two things. One, how different this conversation is than.
- [34:12]
Guest Speaker
The one that you.
- [34:13]
Connor Baten
Than the one that you had with Richard Reeves.
- [34:14]
Guest Speaker
And two, this is the bait and switch.
- [34:17]
Connor Baten
How we've gone from male loneliness to girthy dicks.
- [34:22]
Guest Speaker
I'm going to do a whole show on it. So people who are really sad that we're going to change the subject from.
- [34:25]
Connor Baten
Penises right now that are really enjoying.
- [34:27]
Guest Speaker
They'Re going to get multiple hours. It's going to be a long double episode.
- [34:32]
Connor Baten
But I do think that there's a good point here, which is a lot of the times the social issues that we as men face are ridiculed. Yeah, they're really ridiculed. There was a study that came out on the male loneliness side that showed that the average guy needs two nights a week with male friends for optimal mental health.
- [34:49]
Guest Speaker
Oh, interesting. I do feel better when I have a hang sesh.
- [34:52]
Connor Baten
Totally. And it was wild when the research came out and you saw the comment section, the amount of ridicule that was going towards like, you know, how ridiculous is this? And why do men need that much time together? And it was really telling because I think For a lot of, a lot of these issues, when men are suffering and struggling, it's often looked down on because the perception is that men are causing the suffering, the struggling. And so it's very challenging to talk about male loneliness, suicidal ideation, lack of fathers, the role that that has a lot of the issues that guys face. Dropping out of school, right. We have less men going to school than ever before, less men in the workforce than ever before. What ends up happening is that when these issues come up, there's almost like a vacancy or a vacuum of empathy and compassion because the perception is men are the cause of this. And so pick yourself up by your bootstraps and just go fix it.
- [35:43]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, it's fun. That bootstraps thing is funny because that, you know where that expression comes from?
- [35:47]
Connor Baten
I would assume a war.
- [35:48]
Guest Speaker
I can't remember the exact bootstrap, which straps these are for. But the point is that it's actually physically impossible to pick yourself up by.
- [35:56]
Connor Baten
Your bootstraps, pulling the boots onto your feet.
- [35:58]
Guest Speaker
So when you say pick yourself up by the bootstraps, what you're saying is do something that is. This whole cliche is that it's actually impossible to do that. Totally. So I always found that ironic. I do want to talk about incels because I think this is a fascinating. Again, I'm going to do a whole show on incels because the phenomenon itself is fascinating to me. I used to really look at these guys negatively, but I do have a lot of empathy for these folks, especially given my previous line of work, which many people know is going to be teaching men dating skills. There were guys that sort of, but for the grace of God would have made a left turn and instead they made a right turn and went into the self improvement angle. But there were guys that gave up and became sort of incel red pill type guys. 67% of incels qualify for diagnosis of.
- [36:38]
Connor Baten
Severe anxiety, oftentimes severe social anxiety. Yeah, so they have severe anxiety, but their anxiety specifically around being in social situations, relationship situations, they are just chronically crippled by nervousness around even just talking to people, having normal interactions. And so this perception that incel men are hate fueled death monsters that, you know, want to go out and murder people is very rare statistically. They are generally very afraid, very fearful people.
- [37:10]
Jordan Harbinger
You might not be able to enjoy the company of a woman, but you can enjoy the great deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Dell and Nvidia we all love the idea of AI doing the heavy lifting. Faster scheduling, smarter systems, fewer human errors. Sounds great, right? Until it's not. In episode seven of the cybersecurity Tapes, a healthcare system fast tracks a shiny new AI rollout to improve patient logistics. But instead of streamlining operations, it sends ambulances to the wrong hospital. Because here's the AI only helps when it's implemented right. And when it's rushed, it can create vulnerabilities that hackers are all too happy to exploit. That's what makes the cyber security tapes compelling. It's fictionalized drama based on real cyber incidents, with actual takeaways on how to spot red flags, patch the holes, and avoid disasters before they happen. Episode seven is a perfect example of what happens when good intentions meet bad planning and the stakes couldn't be higher. Search for the cybersecurity tapes and check out episode seven, Especially if your company is riding the AI wave without asking, wait, is this secure? This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. You might be surprised that even I get stressed out with work.
- [38:14]
Guest Speaker
I know.
- [38:15]
Jordan Harbinger
Unbelievable, right? But just because I've interviewed some of the most interesting people on the planet doesn't mean I'm immune to work pressure. Kind of the opposite, in fact. Running the show, managing a team, prepping for deep dive interviews, I can feel like spinning plates while someone keeps adding more plates. And according to the numbers, I'm not alone. 61% of the global workforce is dealing with higher than normal stress levels. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, it's not just you, but what's helped me a few small things. Getting outside every day, working out a bunch. But one of the best tools out there is therapy. That's where BetterHelp comes in. It's the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 therapists and a 4.9 app rating from 1.7 million reviews. You can talk to somebody from your phone or laptop and switch therapists anytime if you need to. No awkward, it's not you, it's me kind of thing required. And therapy is not just for trauma folks. It's for anybody who wants to feel more in control, build resilience, and actually enjoy their life again. Even if you're a podcaster who gets paid to talk for a living. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com Jordan that's betterhelp.com Jordan, if you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers, creators every week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like and trust. I know you're not booking for a podcast, but it does help to have strong relationships. We know they help you live longer and healthier. This course, six Minute Networking, teaches you how to do that and maintain those circles in very easy, non cringy, very down to earth ways. No awkward strategies or tactics, just practical exercises that will make you a better connector, a better friend, a better peer at home, at work. Yes, even if you're retired, six minutes a day is all it takes. And five Minute Networking was taken.
- [39:51]
Guest Speaker
Let's be real.
- [39:52]
Jordan Harbinger
But many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. Again, the course is free. 0 shenanigans over@sixminutenetworking.com now back to Connor Baten.
- [40:07]
Guest Speaker
A lot of these, this is from my research on incels as well. A lot of these so called like incel terror attacks turn out to not be that when you do a deep dive. There was one guy who ran a van into people in Canada and when the, I guess CSIS or whatever the Royal Canadian RCMP interrogated.
- [40:23]
Connor Baten
Rcmp?
- [40:24]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, he was like, yeah, I didn't really mean that incel thing. I just did it for attention because he was a psychopath and he did that incel comment because he knew it would get clicks in media. So they counted that as like incel murders people. But he was like, whatever. That's not even it. It wasn't even a thing. And then there's a couple really famous ones. Elliot Roger, who murdered his roommates and then a bunch of other people. He also had other mental illness that had a little bit, but not really. And it wasn't like I'm an incel and I'm doing this. He had all kinds of stuff that was going on and that was a mass casualty. And that's kind of the only other one that's really out there. Meanwhile, there are maybe hundreds of thousands or even millions of incels and most of them are just kind of bummed out and played Diablo 3 all the time. Right.
- [41:04]
Connor Baten
Well, I think that's where you know this TV series on Netflix that got so much attention. Adolescence. Have you seen it?
- [41:09]
Guest Speaker
Oh, I hadn't watched it. I heard about it though.
- [41:10]
Connor Baten
Yeah. I mean it's interesting because it's. They're trying to portray an incel and There's a lot about it. There's a guy in the UK named William Costello and he's like one of the lead researchers of incels and they have some of the biggest body of work on research for incels. I mean, I follow him and I've been wanting to have him on the show because he's super interesting. But you know, they found a whole. Like when you dig into the data, like 47% of incel men are non Caucasian.
- [41:42]
Guest Speaker
Yeah. It says 42 in your nose.
- [41:43]
Connor Baten
42, there we go.
- [41:44]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [41:45]
Connor Baten
So, you know, I think there's a perception that it's like angry white boys in their mom's basement.
- [41:50]
Guest Speaker
That is 100% what I. Yeah.
- [41:52]
Connor Baten
Which is not generally the case at all. Again, they're generally struggling with severe anxiety. They have mental health issues. Oftentimes they need support and help. Quite often they come, they do come from fatherless homes. You know, when you look at it, they have really major challenges with like suicidal ideation.
- [42:09]
Guest Speaker
30% of them think about suicide daily, which makes me so sad. Compared to the Everyday population is 5% saying they had a suicide suicidal thought once or more in the last year. So this is heavy on suicidal ideation. They have no relationships, no close friends. That's one of the sort of characteristics.
- [42:25]
Connor Baten
Yeah. And I think this is the empathy gap that I'm talking about when it comes to men. It's like these guys, you know, and of course it doesn't excuse behavior of going online and trolling women and you know, spewing hate towards women. I'm not excusing any of that.
- [42:39]
Guest Speaker
Right.
- [42:39]
Connor Baten
Like if that's happening from some of those guys, I'm not excusing any of that. There is an empathy gap. These are some of the men in our societies that are struggling the most. You know, they're thinking, 30% of them are thinking about self harm.
- [42:52]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, that makes me sad. That makes me sad.
- [42:54]
Connor Baten
You know, and so we have to approach these conversations, I think in a different way to understand like, well, A, how are these young men getting to that place? And then B, how do we create structures and systems within our societies to circumvent that from happening more and more? Because it is happening more men are getting more socially isolated, they are getting more lonely, they are lacking in male role models. And so when that continues to happen, they go into online gaming and you know, they're on Twitch all the time and then they're more isolated and then their only friends are in the digital realm.
- [43:27]
Guest Speaker
I'll tell you, the one turning Point for me, this is years ago. I met this show fan. He was a really nice guy. He ended up meeting my wife, we ended up hanging out. And I was like, he's shy, but he's like a sweet guy. I like him. I had a good time. I later found a bunch of his posts under another name that he was using. And they were crazy, vitriolic, women hating incel posts. And I saw him again and I was like, can I ask you a question? You know, we had such a good time with you. You got along with Jen really well. What's the real you? And he was like, I think the one that you met was closer to the real me. And I was like, what is all this shit? And he was like, I just get really angry about the state of my life and I blame women for it, even though I know at some level it's really not them. It just. They're just an easy target. And I find a lot of people agreeing with me when I post about this kind of thing because they're in the same situation. And that was really eye opening for me because he didn't want to do anything harmful to women. He didn't actually want bad things to happen to women. He just desperately wanted to not be alone. And the outlet was just, oh, if I complain about women, all these other guys will pile on. And I feel like I have community. That was really eye opening and sad for me.
- [44:32]
Connor Baten
Yeah, they get incentivized to get rewarded. They get social connection. Like a lot of the things that they're lacking, they get in spades.
- [44:39]
Jordan Harbinger
If you read this, you would be.
- [44:40]
Guest Speaker
Like, wow, this guy's like one step away from going on a machete spree or sexually assaulting someone. But then when you talk to him, he's like, would never do it. Has sisters that he has a good relationship with. He's also had girlfriends in the past. And those relationships, by all accounts, ended more or less amicably. And it was shocking because it was like two different people. Even to this day, I'm like, how about you? That angry guy is in there. Scares me a little bit.
- [45:04]
Connor Baten
I think sometimes when some of this data that we're talking about starts to come out, whether it's about dating apps or whatever it is, I think sometimes people are worried or scared that that's going to reinforce certain behaviors within men. I also think it's become much more socially acceptable. Like there's just a gender war happening and there are women who think the world would be better off without men, you know, like the other side exists of like all men are. Are evil, all men are rapists, like all men are this way. And there's a kind of loathing on the other side that has become more socially acceptable, largely because women don't generally tend to take the dramatic action that men do when they get that far off the rails.
- [45:45]
Guest Speaker
That's interesting. You mentioned that men's psychological issues are often misrepresented. I'm curious about. I'd love to talk about this. 75% of therapists, in some states, more than 80%, are women. So what? Man? A lot of women understand men really well. I have female therapists. Why is that a problem?
- [46:01]
Connor Baten
It's not necessarily a problem. It's more about the macro picture of the vacancy of male role models. You know, there are certain things that men are going to be dealing with and struggling with that sometimes women just are not going to really understand. And the therapeutic industry is, I think, doing a disservice because it's approaching male issues from a female perspective.
- [46:23]
Guest Speaker
How so?
- [46:25]
Connor Baten
Well, when you look at a lot of the training that therapists go through, they don't really learn how to differentiate between resistance in a man or a woman. And how a man will show resistance versus a woman is oftentimes very different. Another version of that is how a man will signal that he's at risk for something like suicide. So there's a study, I think I sent you some of the data in the UK that showed that 80% of the men who had taken their own lives in the UK had sought out help. And of those 80%, 95% of them were deemed as low risk or no risk. Meaning that the therapists that they were seeing couldn't identify that they were at risk for suicide.
- [47:05]
Guest Speaker
Yeah. That's terrifying.
- [47:07]
Connor Baten
That's a massive body of research, right. It's not like 10 or 20 guys, it's a lot of men. Sometimes we miss out on the fact that when people go to therapy, they're incentivized to express and talk about their emotions. Not a problem. That can be very helpful. I think for a lot of men, that's very helpful because we generally live in a culture of suppression, you know, and in my book, I wrote about how within masculine culture, it's very common that we see strength as a byproduct of our ability and capacity to suppress our emotions. So the more that we can stuff shit down, the stronger and more capable we perceive that we're going to be. But it actually has the inverse effect.
- [47:44]
Guest Speaker
I wish I did not fully agree with that. I'm like, that's me, definitely, and my dad and probably my grandparents.
- [47:50]
Connor Baten
Totally.
- [47:51]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [47:51]
Connor Baten
And so we. So we adopt this idea when in fact, it's the inverse of that. We have to have some dominion over emotions. We have to be able to express them when necessary. We have to have some level of connection or mastery with them. But the big thing that the therapeutic industry misses out on is usefulness and competency. And so Richard Reeves, who you had on the show, he. They did this big study through the American Institute of Boys and Men, and they looked at the notes that men had left behind when they took their own lives. And the one word that stood out was useless, just chronically through all these notes. And so when men feel useless through. In society, they feel useless. And marriage, relationship, family, friends. The more useless a man feels, the more he can start to logically rationalize not being here.
- [48:38]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [48:39]
Connor Baten
And therapy is not optimized to help men be useful socially and relationally. And it is also not optimized to help identify when a man feels like he's lacking competence in something and then help him to develop the systems to develop competence, even if it's something simple. As I need to get better at setting boundaries in my relationship because I let my girlfriend or wife or boyfriend walk all over me. Right. It's like, okay, well, that's a skill set that you can actually develop. And this is the difference is that men actually look at these things as systems and skills that we need to develop. And the therapeutic industry does not tailor it to that way. So, like, our tagline is, it's not therapy, it's training. It's like, this is helping you to be more competent as a man. And if you can do that, you're actually going to uplevel your level of confidence.
- [49:27]
Guest Speaker
Wow. Yeah. Richard Reeves Episode 1126 we do a deep dive into more on. We focused more on education gap and stuff like that. Less on the dick gap. Yes. And more on the education and work.
- [49:38]
Connor Baten
I like that I got this. I feel much more prepared for that version than the. Than the education in the workforce.
- [49:44]
Jordan Harbinger
I think it's because I just had.
- [49:46]
Guest Speaker
More respect for him than I do.
- [49:47]
Connor Baten
Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's fair.
- [49:49]
Guest Speaker
No, you and I go way back.
- [49:50]
Connor Baten
I'm not a researcher.
- [49:51]
Guest Speaker
No, I feel. I. I just felt comfortable with it because I feel like we've known each other for three years.
- [49:55]
Connor Baten
We've got that rapport. I feel like. I feel like Richard Reeves would not engage in.
- [49:59]
Guest Speaker
I Think he would politely change the subject immediately?
- [50:02]
Jordan Harbinger
I could be wrong.
- [50:02]
Guest Speaker
I don't know. Next time he's on the show, um, I. I do.
- [50:07]
Jordan Harbinger
One bit of good news from your.
- [50:08]
Guest Speaker
Notes was that more men are seeking therapy than ever before. Yeah, I don't think we necessarily have more problems. I think we are recognizing the problems more. I should say so. It's not just like, oh, more men are seeking therapy because more men have issues. I think these issues have always existed. But to your earlier point, we've just choked them down and drank them away or something like that. Like, if you came back from Vietnam and you had ptsd, you just became an alcoholic or a drug addict or just like beat yourself kids or something, or handled it in some other destructive way. I mean, there's a million stories like that, or you just suffered in silence. Now I think guys my age especially and younger, they're going to betterhelp.comjordan. they're talking about it, which I encourage. I mean, I do it. I feel a million times better after talking to a therapist, even if I'm just venting about something. Because to another one of your earlier points, if you don't have a best friend that you can do that with regularly, where is it all going? Where is it going? You gotta get those demons out, man.
- [51:00]
Connor Baten
Well, and that's the case for a lot of. A lot of men is that it's not that they have a vacancy of friends. It's that they actually have an absence of one or more friends that they can talk about meaningful shit with. That's actually the gap. And so a lot of men will say, no, no, I got. I got buddies in my life. I have friends in my life. But then if you dig a little bit deeper and you say, do you have men in your life that you can talk about meaningful, substantial challenges with embarrassing challenges, with struggles that you're having financially, relationally, sexually? The answer is almost always no. You know, so few men actually have guys in their life that they can say, hey, you know, my wife or, you know, my girlfriend and I were going through these challenges. We're trying to have a kid. It's not going well. Those types of conversations are becoming more prominent among men. I think it's becoming much more socially acceptable amongst men. And one of the things that I was talking about was that we've. We've lived and we've been raised by the men who were raised by the men that came back with incredible trauma from World War II. Yeah, my grandfather fought in World War II and what he and everybody else faced was insanely traumatic, you know, insanely challenging. And some of the stories I heard my grandfather talk about were wild. And as a kid, I didn't think much of it because they seemed like. Didn't even, like, seem real. But as an adult, you're like, holy shit.
- [52:16]
Guest Speaker
You saw that happen, The Saving Private Ryan beach scene stuff? Totally.
- [52:20]
Connor Baten
And then they raised the next generation of men, and those men were handed down the trauma that their fathers experienced and witnessed. And so I think we're just starting to, like, really sift through that and sort through that and metabolize some of what a lot of men experienced Post World War II.
- [52:39]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, that's a really interesting point. There's a lot of this epigenetic generational trauma stuff too. That's sort of new science. Have you heard about this at all? Where I used to think it was a ridiculous argument where, like, people say, oh, well, if you're a black dude, you know, you got generational trauma from this. And I was like, ah, come on, that's not a real thing now. It's like, oh, it kind of is. But it also explains why a lot of us Jews are a little weird, right? Like, okay, so a bunch of your family was like, in a pogrom, and then the Holocaust, and then another pogrom, and then you came here and it's like, oh, okay, maybe I did inherit some shit.
- [53:11]
Connor Baten
Yeah. It activates certain genes in the body and genomes and, yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
- [53:15]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, I would love to talk about going back to dicks now.
- [53:18]
Jordan Harbinger
I want to talk about porn brain.
- [53:20]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, you mentioned porn. It's unfortunately, and I can tell by online comments and real life discussion with younger guys, especially porn is clearly the primary driver of sex education among men that I would say are maybe under 40. I'm 45. The online porn thing started when I was in college, but it was a little nascent. It was easy to find, but it wasn't like nobody I knew was, like, addicted to it. And by the end of college, some guys, you were like, dude, do you ever leave the house? So that sort of started then, but if you're under 45, under 40, you probably had porn in, like, middle school. So I had, I don't know what, half decade of, like, hooking up with girls, maybe even having sex with girls before porn hit the scene. And then it was a slow ramp up. These other guys had porn way before they saw a real woman in the flesh, other than, you know, from the neck up or whatever. So that dial up, terrifying. Yeah. And the dial up like, the dial.
- [54:15]
Connor Baten
Up like loaded line by line. You're like, there's eyes.
- [54:18]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh please, please be naked. And the rest of the day.
- [54:22]
Connor Baten
Yeah, yeah, please be hot and naked.
- [54:23]
Guest Speaker
Please be hot and naked.
- [54:24]
Jordan Harbinger
And the guys who are under 40.
- [54:25]
Guest Speaker
Like they, their first exposure was probably like a mobile phone with that their friend is showing them.
- [54:30]
Connor Baten
Well, the research shows that most young boys are finding porn between 9 and.
- [54:34]
Guest Speaker
11 years old, horrifyingly young.
- [54:36]
Connor Baten
I mean, you have to think about just the vast impact of chronic sensory overload. If an 11 year old boy opens up the Internet and starts watching porn, he can within a few hours or a few days, see more naked women in that span of time than any man throughout human history will have seen throughout his lifetime.
- [54:56]
Guest Speaker
I always think about that and it's terrifying. Imagine, because I guess I would have to chat GPT this, but if you lived 3,000 years ago and you were not like, I don't know, a pharaoh or something like that, you probably saw, I don't know, a handful, maybe you slept with a handful of women in your tribe. If you were like a real chad going for it. Right. The chad, to use an incel term. But like most, that was it. And that was like your lifetime and you died when you were 26 or something from a stubbed toe and that was the end of it. Now you get these little kids who are essentially looking at these little clips or whatever of porn and yeah, their brain is like probably not evolved to handle that.
- [55:32]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [55:32]
Guest Speaker
Do we know what that does to your brain? What does it do?
- [55:35]
Connor Baten
I mean, the research on this from what I've seen is kind of varied. You know, for some people there's definitely. Desensitization is a big one.
- [55:43]
Guest Speaker
How does that show up? Because like erectile dysfunction. Really? Okay.
- [55:47]
Connor Baten
Yeah. So if you as a man watch too much porn for a long period of time, what will eventually happen is that, and this is, this is research back, is that you end up going down more like deeper, more intense forms of pornography.
- [55:59]
Guest Speaker
Because you need novelty to start, because.
- [56:01]
Connor Baten
You need more novelty over time and then that ends up desensitizing your system so that nothing actually really gets you aroused.
- [56:07]
Guest Speaker
Nothing in real life.
- [56:08]
Connor Baten
Yeah, nothing in real life. Yeah. But also then the porn that you watch, you have a harder and harder time getting aroused because you're so desensitized.
- [56:15]
Guest Speaker
I see.
- [56:16]
Connor Baten
You know, if you're a 9 year old kid that starts watching porn and then Fast forward to 29. Yeah. 29 years old. And you've been watching porn every other day for 20 plus years. Your system gets desensitized. And then on top of that, it skews and alters your perspective and perception of what sex should actually be like, real life sex. And so a lot of this, I'm.
- [56:38]
Guest Speaker
Sorry, I just, you know, in the intrusive thoughts sometimes continue, but it, you.
- [56:44]
Connor Baten
Know, it skews what you perceive sex to be. And so for men, what generally happens is this really hyper fixation on performance lasting long size, all those different pieces. And then depending on the pornography that they're watching, some men will need to replicate what they've been watching in porn in order to actually have, you know, ejaculate or whatever.
- [57:04]
Guest Speaker
Wow.
- [57:05]
Connor Baten
So it can really screw up your real sex life.
- [57:09]
Jordan Harbinger
I've heard that there's also.
- [57:10]
Guest Speaker
Have you heard of death grip? Have you heard of this?
- [57:12]
Connor Baten
No.
- [57:12]
Guest Speaker
This is. I swear this was. This is real. I was like, this is fake. I gotta look it up, apparently. And it doesn't happen to everyone, obviously, but guys who watch a lot of porn, they start to increase the tightness of their grip on the penis. And eventually it gets so tight because of desensitization of nerves and stuff like that, that real vaginas don't work for them at all. And you see these relationship issues where guys can't do anything with their girlfriend or can finish because they literally need this death grip. And you can undo it, but it takes like, you have to abstain from masturbation for like 60 days. And these guys are essentially porn addicted, you know, multiple time per day kind of guys. So, like, they can't do that. It's very hard and it ruins relationships. Imagine if your partner could never finish with you, but he's watching people swinging from the ceiling, doing whatever, novelty porn, and you're just like, well, I can't compete with that. You know, he's watching anime tentacle stuff.
- [58:05]
Connor Baten
I think the interesting thing is that porn kind of plays a role in everything that we've been talking about so far. You know, like, number one, from an attachment perspective, it creates a kind of pseudo attachment. So if you look at Onlyfans as an example. So first off, OnlyFans did like, I think in 2023, it did like $6.6 billion, right? The. The women of Onlyfans just like raked it in. They. They accrued.
- [58:27]
Jordan Harbinger
There's guys on there too.
- [58:28]
Connor Baten
There are guys on there. There are guys on there for sure. But they, you know, on average, they are not Doing nearly as well.
- [58:33]
Guest Speaker
That's probably true.
- [58:34]
Connor Baten
And when you break down what men are generally looking for, the women that are doing really well, a lot of them are the sort of like next door girlfriend experience. They're offering this kind of pretend pseudo relationship. You have women that are doing like fin subbing. I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but this is like financially submissive. So a man will become a financial submissive to a woman.
- [58:56]
Guest Speaker
Oh, and it's called Finn sub Fin dom. Finn. So I don't know the difference.
- [59:01]
Connor Baten
Yeah, she'll be a fin dom and he's the Finn sub.
- [59:04]
Guest Speaker
Oh, okay.
- [59:04]
Connor Baten
So she'll basically tell him, like, she'll text him and be like, send me a hundred dollars right now.
- [59:09]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [59:09]
Connor Baten
And basically they play this game of instead of draining his nuts, they drain his bank account.
- [59:14]
Guest Speaker
I had dinner with a friend yesterday and she was telling me she has this very attractive female friend who's a really nice person and everyone loves her and they have a nice circle of friends. She was like, hey guys, I'm bringing this guy that I'm dating. I have to warn you, it's gonna be. Our relationship is a little weird. And just so you guys know, it's gonna be a little weird. And they're like, what do you mean? Right? And she's like, you'll see when we get there. So they go out to dinner and again, this is a very nice girl who's like, had a bunch of normal relationships and they're like, oh, we wanna meet your new boyfriend or whatever. They have dinner, they're going to like, they go to like one of those Michael Mina nice restaurants or whatever. And the guys are like, you know, okay, I had this and this and this. I owe $67. And the girl's like, john, pay for my friends. And they were just like, no, you don't have to do that. She's like, no, no, he's gonna do it.
- [59:59]
Jordan Harbinger
You're gonna do it.
- [60:00]
Guest Speaker
Huh? And she's like abusing him verbally. And everyone was like, oh my, what is. You know. Cause they were embarrassed.
- [60:05]
Jordan Harbinger
And she was like, no, no, I.
- [60:06]
Guest Speaker
Told you, this is our thing. So she's berating him and he pays for all the food. And the guys and girls in the group were like, we gotta talk to her. This is very uncomfortable. We're now abusing this guy and we didn't sign up for this. So while they're telling her, she's like, okay, then you're really gonna hate this part. And she Goes to him, and she's like, go, give me $1,000 right now from the ATM. He goes and withdraws a thousand dollars. And then he's like, what are we doing now? And she's like, shut up. Go to the room for the rest of the night. And then they basically had to do an intervention where they're like, this is unhealthy for everyone, and you can't do this. And she's like, I know. I feel bad, but also like, he really likes it. So they had this talk with him where he's like, no, I appreciate this. I enjoy this. And she's like, it's kind of fun.
- [60:47]
Jordan Harbinger
But obviously, you can't have a serious.
- [60:48]
Guest Speaker
Relationship with somebody like that. If you're a normal person, you're not a sociopath. So this is one of the weirdest things I've ever heard, because I don't understand where that comes from. If somebody treated me like that for one second, I would. No, I would never stand for that. This guy wants more of that.
- [61:04]
Connor Baten
Yeah. I mean, generally. So this is what I would call sexualizing your trauma.
- [61:08]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [61:09]
Connor Baten
So, like, we can fetishize our trauma in all kinds of different ways. And so depending on what that guy's background was like and his upbring, he might just be playing out some type of repetition of what he experienced as a kid or what he felt was happening as a kid. But this is the type of stuff that can start to unfold when you've just been watching so much porn that you're desensitized. And do you think that's, like, a normal way of being? And in the BDSM community, they have a saying that I've interpreted as, like, don't yuck my yum.
- [61:36]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:37]
Connor Baten
You know, like, don't poo poo what I want to be doing. But, I mean, I think that these are some of the things that guys are dealing with.
- [61:43]
Guest Speaker
So another example of this. This trauma thing where it's more obvious. Same friend had dinner with her the other night. Same dinner where this story came out. She's like, yeah, I'm going out with this guy. And he's like, a wealthy, New York, blue, bloody family where, like, they probably have, like, a house in Nyack and a house in Manhattan, apartment in Manhattan, and then another house in, what it was at Hamptons or something like that. Like, this guy's got dough, and his thing is he wants her to be mean to him, but sporadically and unpredictably. So, like, they'll be having a Nice dinner. And he'll say something, and she'll. Instead of going, like, rolling her eyes gently and being like, well, I disagree with that. He's like, no, I want you to tell me what you really think. She's like, shut the hell up. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And he's like, keep going. You know? And she's like, why? And he's like, you know why? Because he's, like, getting turned on by it. And her and I were talking about this, and I was like, yeah, if you ever meet his mom, I feel like you're going to understand what's going on here. Like, you're gonna meet their parents, and the dad's gonna be like, does anybody want dessert? And the mom's gonna go, shut up, Tom.
- [62:40]
Jordan Harbinger
You're an idiot.
- [62:41]
Guest Speaker
We're talking, and you're gonna go, ding. Yeah, I get it. But then it's like, can you have a serious relationship with someone like that? You're marrying into this family with this trauma they're not dealing with in a normal, like, healthy way? I don't know, man.
- [62:53]
Connor Baten
I mean, look, sometimes you can use kink and BDSM to move through some of those things, but what you're talking about are generally results of pretty real and severe attachment disorders that lead to anxious and avoidant and, you know, disorganized and. And sometimes a. A result of, like, pretty severe trauma. And those types of things, you know, they do require you to have some type of understanding of what's actually going on. You can't completely resolve them just through kink and BDSM play. Depending on the situation, you can definitely move through some of it. And I. I know some people that have used BDSM and kink as a means of, like, working through some of that stuff and reclaiming power from trauma or abuse or abandonment or neglect. And that absolutely can happen. But I think for a lot of people, it's not conscious like that, and it's just this repetition of a trauma, you know, of a pain.
- [63:43]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, I suppose if you've got your therapist and you're conscious of why you're doing it, but it still pushes the right buttons. That's different than being like, yeah, I have no idea why. I like to have somebody punch me in the face randomly while we're driving the car. Just keep doing it.
- [63:55]
Connor Baten
It's like, I had a buddy of mine that went to a king party, and he's like. Like, everything was really cool, except there was this one dude that wanted to be rolled up in a carpet and stepped on. And he was like, I couldn't not think about it and like sit in the corner with a drink being like what happened to that guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, like what the happened to him? You know he wants to be rolled up in a carpet and stepped on. I was like, I don't know man. Like, I don't even want to get into that one.
- [64:19]
Jordan Harbinger
Speaking of giant dicks, now for a word from our sponsors. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Shopify. When I started this podcast 18 years ago, I wore every hat, producer, editor, marketer, designer. And if I'd been selling a product back then, forget it. I would have needed something like Shopify just to stay sane. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses worldwide. In fact, it powers 10% of all e commerce in the US. That's right, 1 out of every 10 online sales happens on Shopify. Everyone from massive names like Mattel and Gymshark to new brands just getting started. They use it to run their stores. It is legit. And if you got a product idea side hustle Shopify makes it ridiculously easy to get started. Choose from hundreds of ready to use templates to build a beautiful online store that fits your brand's vibe. No coding wizardry required. Their built in AI tools help you write product descriptions, headlines, even cleans up your product photos. So if you're not a copywriter or a photographer, no problem. Launch email and social campaigns right from the platform, targeting your customers wherever they're strolling or scrolling. Shopify is your expert on everything. Inventory, international shipping, returns. They figured it out so you don't have to. So if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com Jordan go to shopify.com Jordan shopify.com Jordan this episode is also sponsored by Progressive Fiscally responsible financial geniuses. Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds of Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. I've got homes.com as a sponsor for this episode homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids. It's also schools, nearby, parks, transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in depth information, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support our amazing sponsors. They make the show possible. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the podcast are searchable and Clickable over at jordanharbinger.com deals. If you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code.
- [67:14]
Guest Speaker
Email us.
- [67:14]
Jordan Harbinger
We are more than happy to surface codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Connor Beaton.
- [67:25]
Guest Speaker
I talk to a lot of women my own age, just friends of mine, and they'll say that when they sleep with younger guys, like if they're divorced or they're still single or whatever, younger guys, you would think, oh yeah, this 28 year old guy is gonna like rock my world. My husband was 55 and wasn't really interested anymore because of hormones. They say they're terrible because they don't know really what they're doing because their sex ed is from porn. And they have to be like, yeah, you know that that doesn't feel good, right? That hurts. Or like, what are you doing? And I don't want to get too graphic, but they'll be graphic. And I'm like, wait, guys think that's real? And they think that that's real because they see it in porn.
- [68:00]
Connor Baten
Well, I mean, you look at some of the videos online, like people going around and what was it? A buddy of mine sent it to me and it's like this guy just walking through the streets of like Vegas or somewhere and just asking people like, thumb in or thumb out. He was asking women thumb in or thumb out. He was talking about, like having a thumb in the butt. And, and so it's so funny to see some of the people's faces and like a lot of like the younger crowd, like, got the reference. But then anybody over like 35, 40, like, no reference whatsoever, they're like, what are you talking about? Thumb in, thumb out? You're like, what?
- [68:29]
Guest Speaker
So gross.
- [68:29]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [68:30]
Guest Speaker
These guys are largely clueless and I feel bad for them, right.
- [68:33]
Jordan Harbinger
Because you have to get feedback from.
- [68:35]
Guest Speaker
Somebody that's going to give you feedback. But a lot of the younger women they're sleeping with maybe don't even know. That's like, like, okay, maybe they don't even know, like they're the woman they're sleeping with is like, it's not my job to teach you how to do this.
- [68:45]
Connor Baten
I think there's a lot more sexual openness, but I wouldn't necessarily say that that's sexual literacy. Yeah, like competency. I remember being a young man and I think I was fortunate in some ways. Like, being able to get attention from women wasn't always challenging, but it was still really confronting like the risk of rejection and like feeling embarrassed. I was at that very, like, interesting intersection between. I had access to porn, but I also had access to women. And I think about the men today. And if I had the access to porn in the way that there is today, I don't know if I would have been as relentless pursuing relationships with women. Because porn is just this easy access, low risk, high reward experience. You don't have to get told, no, you're not going to get rejected in any way, shape or form. You can explore whatever the hell it is that you want. And there's really no real risk of embarrassment. Whereas in real life all of those things exist. You have to risk being rejected and embarrassed and sometimes humiliated. Having like a humiliating experience if you can't get it up or you come too fast. So I think for a lot of guys it's just, it's like this linear problem solving tool where it's like, oh, I don't have to deal with anything. And then the other reason why it's so addictive for a lot of men is it's what I call the nervous system reset button. So if you're stressed out, if you're feeling lonely, if you're feeling bored, if you're feeling angry, if you and your girlfriend got in an argument and you're pissed off at her. Porn is the ultimate reset button for your whole system. And so you go jerk off, you ejaculate a whole bunch of neurochemicals, dopamine, prolactin, they all course through your body. Your body relaxes and it shifts how you were feeling before. So for a lot of guys, it's a state change tool, right? It's like as soon as you're feeling something that you don't like, what a lot of guys will go do is jerk off and watch porn and then they don't have to feel that anymore. But what ends up happening for a lot of men is it creates a dependency. And so they, in order to feel better, in order to not feel bored, lonely, angry, sad, whatever it is, they need porn in order to do that. And for some men, they become so dependent on it for very specific things like going to bed at night. I've worked with men where they're like, in order to go to sleep, I need to jerk off and watch porn. And other guys, it's like, in order to start my day, I need to jerk off and watch porn. That's how I have to start things. Otherwise I'm a mess.
- [71:08]
Guest Speaker
This might be above your pay grade here, but what if you make the porn with your significant other and you use that and it's not from the Internet? Is that better?
- [71:18]
Connor Baten
I mean, sure.
- [71:19]
Guest Speaker
Asking for a friend. Sorry, wife. I'm not talking about you. Sure.
- [71:23]
Connor Baten
Yes.
- [71:24]
Guest Speaker
Or wait, that came out even worse. Uh, I'm. Yeah, this is a hypothetical.
- [71:28]
Connor Baten
You're like. Yeah, like, you're like. Should I edit that part out?
- [71:31]
Guest Speaker
Nope, I'm leaving it in. But I'm just gonna leave it there and let you talk. Please start talking.
- [71:35]
Connor Baten
Yes. Yes, it is. And if you still have a dependency on the porn over the real life sexual experience, it's gonna be hindering your relationship. You know, ideally, the average human being is actually wanting is skin to skin penetration.
- [71:49]
Guest Speaker
So sorry, to clarify, is it better if you're making it in your, like, let's say you're traveling a lot so you make some with your significant other. Is that still.
- [71:57]
Jordan Harbinger
That's.
- [71:58]
Guest Speaker
No. Oh, it's not. Not at all.
- [71:59]
Connor Baten
No, not at all. Explore, have fun. You know, send the, I mean, within moderate, like whatever is, is within your relationship, right?
- [72:06]
Guest Speaker
Like, well, yeah, send the new consistency consensual, like, hey, I miss you. Here's a picture of me in front of the mirror. I just mean, is that better than like watching a stranger?
- [72:14]
Connor Baten
Yeah. I think for the majority of people in relationships, that is what they're looking for for some people. It's not for some people, it's maybe you're playing around with, I want you to go and watch some chick on OnlyFans tonight. Like, like that can be it for some people. But I think for the majority of people in relationships, they are wanting sexual exploration with their partner.
- [72:34]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [72:34]
Connor Baten
And that's fulfilling and satisfying and however you want to do that, whether it's sexting or facetiming and exploring it in that way. Like for some clients that I've worked with in the past, like, I'll have them explore power dynamics, you know, and if they're traveling a lot, as an example, there's so many different ways to do that. You know, creating a separate phone number sometimes or like a WhatsApp and pretending, you know, that there's like a role play there.
- [72:55]
Guest Speaker
I see. Oh, that's kind of a cool idea.
- [72:57]
Connor Baten
You know, so there's.
- [72:58]
Guest Speaker
That other people can use.
- [73:00]
Connor Baten
There's a whole bunch of different ways that you can do things. But I think generally for most people, and you know, you and your partner have to figure out whether. Because some people classify porn as cheating and some people don't.
- [73:11]
Guest Speaker
That's true.
- [73:11]
Connor Baten
I've seen that you kind of have to have that conversation and be open and transparent of, do you use porn? Do you watch it? Does your partner use porn and watch it. Is that something that you want to do in your relationship? Like all of those things are important. And I think for a lot of guys the challenge is that we treat porn like we treat unwanted emotions, which is, I'm never gonna talk about my relationship to porn. And so they get into a long term relationship, some stuff starts to happen, starts to go sideways. They watch more porn and more porn. They're not communicating to their girlfriend or their wife. And then all of a sudden it comes out that they've been watching a whole bunch and it creates this big rupture in the relationship.
- [73:47]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [73:48]
Connor Baten
Because it hasn't been talked about, it's been hidden, it's been suppressed. And that's just a recipe for disaster. You know, anytime that you suppress stuff and are hiding things actively, even if it's lying through a mission, you're going to cause a pretty big rupture and conflict somewhere down the road.
- [74:02]
Guest Speaker
I see this kind of post all the time online on our sub or other ones where there's a existing relationship issue.
- [74:09]
Jordan Harbinger
Like, my boyfriend's not interested in sex.
- [74:11]
Guest Speaker
At all anymore and hasn't been for several months. And then it's like, oh, and I found out he's watching porn because there's a major difference between, wow, he's just really stressed out, and he doesn't have any sex drive. I'm concerned about him. Is it me or is it something else? Oh, he's using porn now. It's definitely just I'm not good enough as a female or whatever in his life to sad that it's way worse. Right. When. When they find that.
- [74:34]
Connor Baten
Yeah. And a lot of guys have so much shame around it that when it does come out, it's like the shame becomes crippling for them. It's like, oh, I'm. What's wrong with me? I'm such a piece of crap.
- [74:43]
Guest Speaker
Well, they promise to never use it again.
- [74:44]
Connor Baten
Yeah, I promise.
- [74:45]
Guest Speaker
They have to never use it again.
- [74:46]
Connor Baten
It's like, stuff, but you have no tools to actually stop using it, and you've dependent on it. And so for a lot of men, I mean, I'll speak personally. It took me a long time to stop watching porn.
- [74:56]
Guest Speaker
I basically quit cold turkey. But I. That's how I quit things, is I just never do it again.
- [75:00]
Connor Baten
Porn was one of those, like, I like to say that I was a hobbyist addict. Like, I. I dabbled in different addictions, but porn was probably like, my main one for a long time.
- [75:09]
Guest Speaker
How long did it take to quit?
- [75:10]
Connor Baten
Probably a year, year and a half, really?
- [75:11]
Guest Speaker
So you just kept going, like, relapse back into it or.
- [75:14]
Connor Baten
Yeah, just relapsing into it and, you know, just kind of like. Like, okay, this is the last time. I'm never gonna use it again. You know, like a lot of those, like, lottery mindset, promising orientations, and it. It just. It had been in my life for such a long time, and I think that's the case for a lot of guys. It's like, a really hard thing to quit. And what I like to say is, with addiction, specifically, because most addictions are attachment issues, is that you can't replace addiction without relationship. And so if you want to have some type of real replacement for porn, and it's not something that you can just quit cold turkey, right? Like, for you, you're just like, I'm done.
- [75:48]
Guest Speaker
That's how I quit stuff. But it's not the easiest way. I just.
- [75:51]
Connor Baten
Some guys can do that, though. Some guys can literally say, I'm gonna go. No fap for the next six months. I'm not gonna masturbate. I'm not gonna nut. I'm not gonna watch porn.
- [75:58]
Guest Speaker
I didn't say that.
- [75:59]
Connor Baten
And they can.
- [76:00]
Guest Speaker
I just had no porn.
- [76:01]
Connor Baten
I know. I know.
- [76:03]
Guest Speaker
Those guys are on another level.
- [76:04]
Connor Baten
That's like a hardcore.
- [76:04]
Guest Speaker
I don't know how you resist that.
- [76:06]
Connor Baten
But, you know, some guys can just do that because it's. It's just like. Some people can say, I'm not gonna drink this month, and it's no problem. And other people, it's just like. Like, I am struggling to not have a drink. And so porn is that for a lot of men now. And it's. I think it's one of the most underreported addictions that we have to date, period.
- [76:24]
Guest Speaker
I would agree with that. I mean, I have no evidence for this, but I would guess if I got to ask 50 guys that I knew decently well, if they did cocaine, drank too much, smoked too much weed, ate too much junk food, or watched too much porn, I. I don't know which ones would be very upfront about the porn thing.
- [76:43]
Connor Baten
Totally.
- [76:44]
Guest Speaker
I think they would probably sooner admit that they were doing tons of blow and smoking weed every day and eating Cheetos every day than they would be to be like, yeah, three times a day with pornhub. I don't think most guys would admit that. They would admit using it, because guys talk about that kind of stuff. I don't think they would ever be honest about the frequency if it was bad.
- [77:03]
Connor Baten
Totally. Well, it wasn't until I was more candid about my usage with porn that I actually was able to move away from it.
- [77:10]
Guest Speaker
It.
- [77:10]
Connor Baten
The struggle and the challenge that I was having with it. And I think that's the case for a lot of guys. It's like, they become dependent on it. Maybe I'll just talk personally for a moment, but, like, I had an issue with porn while in relationships.
- [77:23]
Guest Speaker
I was gonna ask.
- [77:24]
Connor Baten
While cheating in relationships.
- [77:25]
Guest Speaker
Oh, wow.
- [77:25]
Connor Baten
You know, and so, like, sex was a big challenge for me in a lot of ways. And porn was just an outlet where, you know, I could turn towards that whenever I. Whenever I wanted, because it's just, like. It's just there, you know, it's on your computer. It's in your pocket. Pocket. It's like having a liquor cabinet in your pocket that you can pull out at any time and a dispenser at any time for weed, but it doesn't cost you anything, you know, which is like. It's mental.
- [77:46]
Guest Speaker
Right?
- [77:46]
Connor Baten
It's just crazy.
- [77:47]
Guest Speaker
And you can drive afterwards. Just wash your hands.
- [77:50]
Connor Baten
You can drive afterwards. Maybe not during. You know, I mean, if you can, like, good for you.
- [77:54]
Guest Speaker
Some people Are definitely driving.
- [77:55]
Connor Baten
Tesla is a self driving. That's right. There you go. That's why Elon and created it. Good lord. But you know, I think it's one of those things where in order to overcome it, you have to, to face the shame and the embarrassment of what's actually been going on. You kind of like have to eat the humble pie for a little bit.
- [78:09]
Guest Speaker
The whole idea that you need more and more extreme stuff, that's really gotta be scary because I would imagine it one day, like, and that kind of.
- [78:18]
Jordan Harbinger
Never really happened to me, I think.
- [78:19]
Guest Speaker
Probably because I didn't use it frequently enough and then got rid of it. But I would imagine there's guys out there that one day are just like, how am I sitting here watching AI alien porn? What is going on?
- [78:30]
Connor Baten
I think it was 2023, the number one most searched word on Pornhub was hentai. And Hentai is anime porn.
- [78:38]
Guest Speaker
Anime porn, right.
- [78:39]
Connor Baten
And so like that's the number one most searched thing. And then, you know, you have all, all kinds of other stuff, but a lot of it is it's not even based in reality. And that's kind of where it's heading.
- [78:50]
Guest Speaker
Right.
- [78:50]
Connor Baten
It's like AI is going to completely flip the porn industry. I don't know if you've seen this, but there are entire content creators now. The script is AI, the woman is AI, the platform is AI. You know, everything is just completely AI. And so we're gonna be even more removed because right now, you know, if a guy goes online and he's watching porn, at least it's a real person. If he goes onto a webcam site and he's like talking to some chick. Yeah, it's a real woman, but maybe he's talking to some dude behind the camera that's like typing for her. Or if he goes on onlyfans, same thing. Like a lot of those only fans, when you talk to them, the likelihood that it's actually that woman is very, very, very low.
- [79:31]
Guest Speaker
I read a piece about this, I think in Wired or something, and there's whole industries where these chatters are paid about a dollar an hour.
- [79:37]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [79:38]
Guest Speaker
Because some of the more popular creators are talking with thousands of people at once. So they hire these agencies to chat. Right?
- [79:44]
Connor Baten
They're AI bots now a lot of.
- [79:45]
Guest Speaker
Them are AI bots and a lot of them are just like $1 an hour paid. And they're probably training the AI bot that's copying the things that they say. It's really crazy. Yeah, I'm sure if the person has 15 followers. It's probably them answering the DMs. But yeah, the popular ones, they use these, these services. That's insane.
- [80:04]
Connor Baten
There's a guy that I saw on Instagram the other day that was talking.
- [80:08]
Guest Speaker
He's.
- [80:08]
Connor Baten
I think he was selling a course on how to do this, which was kind of funny. But he created an AI program that basically turned him into a filter. So he would record himself saying sexy things or like sending a specific like voice message, like hey Jordan, how's your day? And blah, blah, blah. And the AI filter would turn him into a beautiful blonde woman with big boobs and it would alter his voice and so it was literally him just recording himself. But what you saw was this beautiful blonde woman speaking some sexy message to you.
- [80:36]
Guest Speaker
Gosh, that's crazy.
- [80:37]
Connor Baten
And he's allegedly making tens of thousand dollars a month.
- [80:41]
Guest Speaker
I saw something similar yesterday on Instagram, however, it was deep fakes of celebrities and it was the guy showing he had like a light and he would shine it on his face.
- [80:48]
Connor Baten
Yeah, yeah, I saw that. Oh yeah.
- [80:49]
Guest Speaker
Wasn't that incredible?
- [80:50]
Connor Baten
Turned into Elon.
- [80:51]
Guest Speaker
Turned into Elon Musk. Turned into like Timothy Chalamet or something. I don't even know who these people are, but I'm Chalamet. Yeah, Chalamet. He turned, he turned into. I saw Adam Sandler Sushi plays the other day. It was funny. I almost yelled out Chalamet really loud. But then I thought, why be that guy? Yeah, he did a couple of other, like Star wars. What's Mark Hamill, who plays Luke Skyler. It was so convincing, my man. So real. I couldn't believe it. And then I was just like, well, make damn sure you're never talking to anybody online who you, you know, don't say anything you wouldn't want to say in front of a perfect stranger who knows how to use AI deepfake software.
- [81:27]
Connor Baten
That's it. Well, and I think it's detrimental. I think two things are going to happen and I think that women are going to start to be disproportionately impacted as well. I think men are going to be more and more sucked down. This rabbit hole of AI pornography that's just hyper realistic and virtual reality oriented system customized for them. And that's like personalization is going to be king and is starting to be king. Not, not just in the porn industry, but I think in, even in like the mental health space, in the therapy space. Like, you know, one of the biggest use cases for ChatGPT is apparently therapy. Wow, that people are using ChatGPT and I've had people that have told me this, like, that have reached out and said, I've been using ChatGPT as like my coach. And I've told it to be like Eckhart Tolle and Connor Beaton and to give me life advice. And they're like, it's incredibly profound. It's so good. I was like, what? What are you talking about?
- [82:20]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [82:21]
Connor Baten
So I think, I think men are going to go down this rabbit hole of more and more AI oriented because it's just going to look so real. And I think what's going to start to happen with women and there's already apps. I think there's an app called Dipsea D I P S E where it's basically AI erotica. And because for women it's a very different, like, women get caught in like the story. And so some women will get addicted to pornography, but what more women will get addicted to is the romance novels. And they'll get really sucked into these like, hyper erotic romance novels. You're going to start to see these very personalized romance novels where you as a woman are in the story and the hero or the guy that's sort of like sexualizing is going to be sexualizing you. It's not going to be sexualizing this like, damsel that you're projecting yourself onto. It's she's. They're actually me sexualizing you. So you get to be a part of this erotica. And then I think it'll be personalized into a, maybe a video or something like that. And you can tailor it, but we're not far off from that. You know, it's like the porn industry. And I think the last thing I'll say is I think onlyfans models, what you're gonna start to see is that real life models are gonna start to charge more of a premium because the AI at some point is likely going to have to be tagged and you'll see this whole industry come out where men are fetishizing women that aren't even real and they know that and they're having relationships with women. And you know, that's like that movie her with Joaquin Phoenix.
- [83:48]
Guest Speaker
It's like.
- [83:49]
Connor Baten
But porn.
- [83:50]
Guest Speaker
Well, I can't say that I'm not curious about that because it seems really interesting. But I can see that being horrifically bad for you if you really get interested in it.
- [83:59]
Connor Baten
Yeah, it might be a salve for some people. You know, I think in Japan that's already starting to happen where there's such a separation between the men and women. And I think that for a lot of guys out there, they've just given up on hope of being in any type of relationship with a woman. And so I struggle with it sometimes.
- [84:16]
Guest Speaker
Instead of the porn element, though, I want the advisor. I want, like, okay, this thing knows me really well. What would I tell myself if I were not emotionally invested in this problem?
- [84:23]
Jordan Harbinger
What would the smart Jordan and then.
- [84:24]
Guest Speaker
Maybe add in, like, a little bit of, I don't know, some super. You know, what would Oprah plus Jordan plus my wife, plus my dad, plus my best friend, plus my producer, plus these 10 super smart show guests. What would those people amalgamated into one brain tell me to do about this particular problem? That seems really cool.
- [84:44]
Connor Baten
And I think that's there. Those start to happen. But I think what, hopefully what young men start to do is use these tools to help them develop competency versus what's happening right now, which is avoid the risk of rejection and embarrassment. That's really how these tools are being used in a lot of ways. And so, you know, you could have, like, a. A bot that's supporting you in learning how to talk to women better in real life and, like, how to get through some of these challenges.
- [85:10]
Guest Speaker
Let's talk about fatherless kids and the time we have left here, which is quickly coming to a close. 43% of US children live without their father. That's way more than I was hoping to see. 90% of homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes. 71% of pregnant teenagers lack a father. That's, I guess, not surprising, but that's. That's still sad. A lot of youth suicides from fatherless homes. I mean, the stats are damning. 85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders.
- [85:36]
Connor Baten
You got to give the arsonist. Let me see, where's 90% of repeat arsonists?
- [85:42]
Guest Speaker
90% of repeat arsonists. This whole thing is just crazy. Kids in juvenile state facilities. 85% of youth in prison, fatherless home. I mean, this is 75% of adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers. Fatherless homes. This is horrible.
- [85:56]
Connor Baten
Yeah, 85% of behavioral disorders in kids are in kids that have no father in the home. The interesting thing is, if you look at the data, one in four children. So 25% of kids won't have their father in a home. And then 43% don't have any father in the home. So it's, you know, it's a pretty wild thing to start to look at. But then when you start to look at the impact of that and then you break it down. Young boys will, will disproportionately be impacted by this. We do see that young girls have sometimes a proclivity towards more hypersexuality and teen pregnancy and things like that. But things like socialization, friend groups, academics, all of those things generally stay on average and aren't really that effective because they have their mother in the house. Whereas young boys like really start to go off the rails. Adverse behavior, acting out, taking big risks, self harm starts to go up quite a bit when, and this is like a new thing that's happening in younger generation, in the younger generations now where young boys are disproportionately harming themselves more than they ever have. So things like cutting and self abuse, that's starting to go up. The role of the father is incredibly, incredibly important, especially for young boys. Because number one, it's really supposed to model what a man can look like. So it gives that young boy a trajectory. This is where I could go or shouldn't go. Even if it's not great, even if that man is lacking in ambition and he's got some anger problems and that kind of stuff, it at least gives that young boy guardrails. Kind of like the boiling alley analogy. It's like put the guardrails up.
- [87:33]
Guest Speaker
It's interesting you should say that because I've seen and heard quite a few guys say I had a terrible father. He cheated on my mom and he used to drink too much. And I'm thankful because I know I do the opposite of the things my dad would do.
- [87:47]
Jordan Harbinger
And I'm like, is that just a weird cope?
- [87:48]
Guest Speaker
And they're like, no. I'm actually glad that I grew up with this person because I have a model for what not to do. But if you had no father, now you are stabbing in the dark because you don't know. You don't have a real role model for how your behavior affects others in some way.
- [88:02]
Connor Baten
I think one of the other things that's not really in this data because those are completely absent fathers, is what I call Ghost Dad. And Ghost dad is the dad that's.
- [88:10]
Guest Speaker
Bi Gasby movie from 1984 is that I think it is. I can't look it up right now.
- [88:15]
Connor Baten
But I think, oh my gosh, that's great. I didn't know that reference. Ghost dad is basically the dad that's there but not. He's around but is emotionally disconnected, doesn't really take interest in your life, doesn't really teach you much of anything. And so he's essentially absent. Another version of this that we see is when divorce happens and a young boy is separated from his father, and he only sees them once a month, once every couple months. And so that can have a very similar impact on a young boy. Having a man in the house gives that young boy some trajectory towards what he could move towards and what he should avoid, like what's working and what's not working. And kids are very perceptive, and so they know very quickly like, oh, dad's anger sucks. You know, he's constantly being passive aggressive to mom, and he's yelling at me all the time like he's kind of a dick and kind of an asshole. And so I don't want to be like that. But it gives that young boy something to push up against, which is a very, very important part. And so that's one piece. The second piece is, generally speaking, fathers will help to do a couple things for kids, but for young boys especially, the first one is risk incentivization. So mothers statistically and traditionally will try and get their kids to take less risks and actually be safer. And fathers will actually encourage risks.
- [89:36]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, I can see that even in my own family, 100.
- [89:38]
Connor Baten
Same with mine and my wife. And my wife is, like, very, very progressive, very liberal in a lot of ways. And even with her, I see her like, oh, should he be on that? Should he be jumping off that? Like, he's on those rocks over there. And some of that, you know, is her. Her family system, because her parents do it too, when they're over. I just witnessed, they're like, should he be staying on those rocks? I'm like, he's fine.
- [89:58]
Guest Speaker
Yeah.
- [89:59]
Connor Baten
Well, what if he falls? I'm like, then he falls.
- [90:00]
Guest Speaker
And he will fall.
- [90:01]
Connor Baten
You know, he's going to hurt himself. He's gonna learn not to stand there anymore. Right, right. And so, you know, I think the risk encouragement is a big part of it. And it encourages that boy specifically to go out and face the hardship that we've been talking about this entire podcast. Right. To face the hardship of the rejection, the not defaulting to these coping mechanisms like pornography or, you know, chronically smoking weed every single day. It incentivizes him to have to go forward and do hard things. Like, generally fathers are there encouraging their sons, or sometimes maybe more forcefully getting their sons to do hard things. So the risk piece is a big part of it. And then the last piece is regulating intense emotions, sometimes through rough and tumble play. Like, my son is 4 years old and he Is so physical. He's just such a physical kid. My daughter's not like that.
- [90:52]
Guest Speaker
Yeah, My daughter gets so annoyed when I wrestle with her. My son loves it.
- [90:56]
Connor Baten
My daughter kind of likes it. But my son, like, goes. Goes full hulk, you know, on it. And I'm not. I'm not, like, encouraging them to do that. You know, when young boys go, at three years old, there's a spike in their testosterone from birth. Until three years old, it's all the same levels. But then at 3, there's like a pre spike. So it's almost like a much smaller version of what you'll see in teenage years as they go through puberty. And that's why when you see three years old, three to four years old, young boys start to sometimes bite and hit and.
- [91:26]
Jordan Harbinger
Oh, yeah, you know, become.
- [91:27]
Connor Baten
Become more aggressive.
- [91:28]
Guest Speaker
It's good to know that that's.
- [91:29]
Connor Baten
And you're like, what? I. I remember being like, like. And I know the data. I'm being like, is this normal? Like, what my son's going through? Like, is he all right?
- [91:35]
Guest Speaker
We called him our three Nager.
- [91:36]
Connor Baten
Yeah.
- [91:37]
Guest Speaker
Yeah. Like, I'm not doing that. And he'd go get his Nerf gun, start opening fire, and we're like, okay, that's a little disturbing, pal. By the way, Ghost Dad, 1990, Bill Cosby. He's been walking through doors, he's been falling through floors. He's been going through a lot lately, but he's still dad. Wow. Yeah. Corny.
- [91:54]
Connor Baten
Yeah. Some of that didn't age well.
- [91:55]
Guest Speaker
No. Oh, yeah. Bill Cosby. No, pretty much the whole thing aged. Like Miller.
- [91:59]
Connor Baten
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. But I. You know, I think for a lot of young boys, that being able to regulate your intense emotions is another big part of it. And so when you don't have that, when you have a vacancy of learning how to do that, there's a much more hyper reliance on your mom in order to teach you how to do that. And so you have a lot of young men that have been taught how to deal with their emotions from their mother. And it's not to put down moms in any way, shape, or form.
- [92:27]
Guest Speaker
No. They're the ones that are there when the dads are gone.
- [92:29]
Connor Baten
That's right.
- [92:29]
Guest Speaker
We're doing the opposite of trying to put the moms down.
- [92:31]
Connor Baten
That's right.
- [92:31]
Guest Speaker
Just to be clear.
- [92:32]
Connor Baten
Yeah. And sometimes, depending on what that mom's gone through, she can, you know, say things like, never be like, your dad. Your dad was such an angry man, and you should. And anytime that. That Boy starts to express anger out of her own fear or her own trauma because of what she went through, she'll demonize him. She'll shame him. Yeah. So if she shames him, shames his anger, you know, good boys don't get angry. Real men don't allow themselves to angry. He can disconnect or even disassociate from his anger. And we need some connection to our anger in order, for example, to even set boundaries or know if a boundary's been crossed. Like that's part of the marker that a boundary's been crossed. And so a lot of these boys grow up to be men that have no boundaries. They don't stand up for themselves. They are sort of like chronic or classic nice guys that, you know, never insert themselves in a relationship. And then, you know, that can lead to some of the stuff that we've been talking about of, of. It's too hard for me to go and talk to a woman or be in a relationship. It's just easier for me to go jerk off and watch porn and be in these little forums online and have my digital friends and not need to deal with the hardship of being in a relationship. And so those things can snowball really quickly.
- [93:42]
Guest Speaker
I can definitely see the line that you would draw between someone who was raised without a dad, learning to become a really nice person and then having that kind of blow up in their face with the people pleasing stuff and having that result in broken relationships, lack of attraction, getting walked all over in a relationship, turning that into, well, women cheat and break your heart and you know, break over your boundaries. I'd rather not deal with that. And then. Or just a guy who says things like all women cheat. I see that a lot and I'm just like, oh my God. A significant number of men believe this. That's really horrible.
- [94:13]
Connor Baten
Yeah. Well, I think it's a deep fear that a lot of men have.
- [94:16]
Guest Speaker
It's a deep fear for everybody, I think. But I don't think all women cheat. Yes, it's a deep fear for me too, but I don't think all women cheat. I think some women do.
- [94:25]
Connor Baten
Yeah. Yeah. I did this one video where I was talking about getting clear on what your fears are of women and what you're afraid of when it comes to women. Because the reality is that men and women hold different power. Women are generally afraid of what a man can or would do physically. And men are generally afraid of what a woman could do, character or socially. And for a lot of guys, I think they're just disconnected from that fear or where it's like all encompassing. There's such a deep terror of. You could destroy me and my character or my reputation, or you could break my heart by going and cheating on somebody and just terrorize them. But that has nothing to do with dad.
- [95:01]
Guest Speaker
That's just a little aside. No, no. But that stuff is interesting. I mean, endlessly fascinating. I know we're out of time, man. Thanks for doing this. Long overdue. Maybe in the next 10 years we can do another one. We'll see.
- [95:12]
Connor Baten
We'll do another one in seven or eight years.
- [95:13]
Guest Speaker
That's right. Sounds good to me, man. Thanks for coming in.
- [95:15]
Connor Baten
Thank you so much.
- [95:17]
Jordan Harbinger
Conversations like these always blow my mind. 66% of men between the ages of 18 and 29 have not been on a date in the last year. And no, it's not because of their height. 50% of men between 18 and 25 have never asked a woman out on a date. I mean, this does not bode well. Guys, we are porn brained, we are overly interneted and we are under socialized. This is not a good sign for either gender. There's a lot more to discuss with this. I think this is just the beginning.
- [95:42]
Guest Speaker
Of this kind of dialogue here on the show.
- [95:43]
Jordan Harbinger
All things Connor Baten will be in the show. Notes@jordanharb.com advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show. All@jordanharbinger.com deals Please consider supporting those who support the show. Also our newsletter, we bit wiser. This is very practical. We always go for something that'll have specific and immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your relationships in under two minutes. That's how long the reads are. If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It's every ish Wednesday. Jordanharbinger.com News is where you can find it. Don't forget, of course, about six minute networking as well. Over at sixminutenetworking.com I'm ordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn and this show. It's created in association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Tata Sidlauskis, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. The greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in these types of topics, maybe a guy who needs to hear about it. Or a woman who needs to hear about it, for that matter. Definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.