Jessica Wynn (3:18)

No, but I imagine that would make me dream about mold. I've tried a few overpriced CBD drinks from the local cafe, though.

Jordan Harbinger (3:26)

Yeah, I've tried CBD drinks. I've tried CBD lattes. Like I joked about in the beginning, I've had, like, CBD sodas and CBD soaps and cbd. I kind of went down a rabbit hole. And if people offer it to me or in the past, if people offered it to me, I would do it. And I guess every time I've ingested or smoked marijuana, I've sort of accidentally done cbd. Right. So what exactly is CBD?

Jessica Wynn (3:49)

In the first place, CBD stands for cannabidiol. It's one of over a hundred cannabinoid compounds. And cannabinoids aren't just in cannabis. They show up in lots of plants, like cacao, hops, kava, black truffles, and even carrots.

Jordan Harbinger (4:07)

Wow. Carrots.

Jessica Wynn (4:08)

Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger (4:08)

So is that why rabbits are so twitchy and paranoid? They're stoned from their carrot binges? That's so strange.

Jessica Wynn (4:13)

Maybe I. It's like nature's little secret snack attack.

Jordan Harbinger (4:16)

Yeah. So when we're eating fancy mushrooms, we're basically microdosing weed. Should I be questioning my life choices at dinner?

Jessica Wynn (4:22)

Not quite. But yeah, cannabinoids are common, and we barely understand what most of them do. The most famous cannabinoid is, of course.

Jordan Harbinger (4:31)

Thc, because that's the one that gets us high. Right?

Jessica Wynn (4:34)

Right. And CBD doesn't. But to really understand cbd, you've got to stop thinking of it as just weed light. CBD and THC, they have the same makeup. There's 21 carbon, 30 hydrogen and 2 oxygen. But their atoms are arranged differently. So it's really important to understand here that the number of atoms alone does not define the properties of a chemical. It's how those atoms are arranged.

Jordan Harbinger (5:02)

I see, so chemical cousins.

Jessica Wynn (5:04)

Sort of. I mean, more like maybe twins with very different personalities. You know, in the case of CBD and thc, the atom arrangement causes different effects on your endocannabinoid system.

Jordan Harbinger (5:16)

Okay, what is the endo Candy Bionic. What are you talking about? What's that?

Jessica Wynn (5:20)

So the endocannabinoid system. Endo means self produced. So it's literally cannabinoids we produce naturally. And it's a little known network that helps regulate our mood, pain, sleep immunity, inflammation.

Jordan Harbinger (5:36)

Okay, so all the good stuff, but how does it work? What does it do to us?

Jessica Wynn (5:41)

So your unique chemistry plays a significant role in how you respond to cannabinoids. The endocannabinoid system has two main receptors. CB1 is found in the brain and CB2 in the body. And THC binds to both, which is why it affects your mind and your body. CBD doesn't bind directly to either. It just kind of nudges along the good stuff, CB2 does. So it's. It stands to reason that taking in external sources of CBD could have physiological effects on your body.

Jordan Harbinger (6:15)

Okay, so CBD does not affect the brain.

Jessica Wynn (6:19)

Not like THC. THC binds hard to both CB1 and CB2 receptors, which is why there's a wide range of effects when you smoke weed or take thc. You know, it increases your appetite to. It can cause paranoia. And CBDs more of like a background player. It stops an enzyme from breaking down a natural cannabinoid you make called anadamide, also known as the bliss molecule.

Jordan Harbinger (6:46)

I see, so the bliss molecule. Well, by the way, that sounds like a vape cartridge flavor. Bliss molecule.

Jessica Wynn (6:51)

I know, I know, but the bliss molecule, it's real and it breaks down fast, so we don't walk around perpetually high CBD slows that breakdown, so anadamide sticks around longer and chills us out.

Jordan Harbinger (7:06)

And that has nothing to do with thc?

Jessica Wynn (7:08)

No, no, Your body knows the difference. And research suggests that CBD interacts with several receptors. But research is young, so the early science isn't really giving us the full picture. The confusion is common in pop culture, and Trey Kennedy actually has a really funny bit about it.

Jordan Harbinger (7:26)

If you don't know what CBD is, it's like if essential oils had a.

Jessica Wynn (7:30)

Weird cousin that lived in a van.

Jordan Harbinger (7:35)

It'S like decaf weed. So it's like decaf weed. So why did CBD's popularity blow up recently? It kind of does feel like it came out of nowhere. I mean, everybody knew about weed since. Well, since forever in our lifetime, anyway. And CBD, I don't know, seems like kind of a 2010 plus thing.

Jessica Wynn (7:52)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, scientists didn't discover CB1 until 1988, when they found it in rats. And the endocannabinoid system wasn't confirmed in humans until the 1990s. So you're not far off.

Jordan Harbinger (8:06)

I just didn't know. Even had the same system as the rats.

Jessica Wynn (8:09)

Yeah, exactly. And then the real shift came in the research in 2018, when the farm bill federally legalized hemp.

Jordan Harbinger (8:17)

Yes. Okay, hemp, the stuff that's been used to make fabrics and ropes for literally thousands of years. That wasn't legal. How do you make that work?

Jessica Wynn (8:25)

No, it was banned in the 20th century thanks to the Dupont company wanting to control textiles in the 30s. And then the Nixon era war on drugs kept it illegal. Hemp kind of got lumped in with marijuana. It was made a Schedule 1 drug. And Schedule 1 drugs are substances that have high potential for abuse. They're not approved for any medical use. We're talking heroin, mdma, cocaine. It was total political theater to make hemp illegal.

Jordan Harbinger (8:57)

So what's the difference between hemp, marijuana, THC, and cbd? Because this is sort of. Everyone just calls it all weed, right? It sort of all falls under that umbrella.

Jessica Wynn (9:08)

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's all cannabis, but. Okay, legally, hemp is cannabis with less than 0.3% THC, and that makes it non psychoactive and legal. Marijuana legally is cannabis with thc levels over that.03%. And it's still federally illegal. And CBD can be extracted from either.

Jordan Harbinger (9:33)

Okay, so hemp won't get you high, but it still does something, right?

Jessica Wynn (9:37)

Maybe that's the idea. I mean, you'll hear the refrain. Needs more research, a lot with cbd, but some evidence shows it might make you feel relaxed, a little sleepy, and maybe even help with pain.

Jordan Harbinger (9:52)

Okay, that sounds somewhat psychoactive.

Jessica Wynn (9:55)

Technically, anything that affects mood or behavior is psychoactive. Caffeine is. So is nicotine. But it's contested if CBD should be classified as psychoactive for strictly, like, legal purposes. You know, no one should get a DUI for drinking an espresso. Same Goes for taking cbd. And recent studies conclude that CBD alone is unlikely to significantly impair daily functioning or workplace performance. But the thing is, the products labeled as CBD often also contain thc, even when we don't expect it.

Jordan Harbinger (10:33)

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. By popular request. Yeah, I've had this happen. A surprise hit of thc, not fun, could cause real problems. You know, you take your cbd, I don't know, matcha latte thingamajig, and then, you know, you're hanging out and you realize, I shouldn't drive home.

Jessica Wynn (10:52)

I know. And a small amount of THC in a CBD product, it's not typically problematic like that. But studies show a single instance of consuming CBD that's just 0.39% THC in it, which is just a little bit above that 0.3 threshold, can result in a positive drug test for THC. So CBD products could mess with your workplace drug test or roadside traffic stops. And larger amounts can cause that high, which might, you know, make you land in some trouble.

Jordan Harbinger (11:24)

Damn, that's crazy. I've gotten higher from a workout than any time I've ever really taken CBD. Like, CBD's cool, but have you heard of leg day? Don't runners experience a legit high as well when they do their thing? Right, the runner's high. Is that a real. That's not just a euphemism, right?

Jessica Wynn (11:38)

It's so funny you say that, because I was just reading it. It used to be thought that runner's high feeling after a good workout was endorphins. But it turns out from all this new research, it's actually the endocannabinoid system blasting out that bliss molecule.

Jordan Harbinger (11:54)

Motivation to go to the gym. Or the dispensary, I guess, or the dispensary and then the gym. So the CBD products, they can be confusing because there's so many different types and, like, ratios and stuff like that. Look at the labels. Is confusing to me.

Jessica Wynn (12:08)

It's so confusing. And you have to do the homework to understand the labels. So in the world of cbd, there's three types of extracts. So there's isolates, which that's just pure cbd. Then there's broad spectrum, which is CBD with other cannabinoid compounds, but not thc. And then there's full spectrum, which is the whole plant, cbd, thc, everything.

Jordan Harbinger (12:34)

The bottle I have here is full spectrum lower thc, CBD oil, which means there's THC in here, you know, at some degree and all this cbd, how do they make it? I mean, you know, there's no wizard involved. I assume this is good chemistry, right?

Jessica Wynn (12:48)

I mean, it's sort of like sciency gardening, I guess.

Jordan Harbinger (12:51)

Yeah.

Jessica Wynn (12:51)

You know, first grow hemp, then you extract the CBD using methods like CO2 extraction, which uses pressurized carbon dioxide to extract compounds from the hemp plant.

Jordan Harbinger (13:05)

Pressurized carbon dioxide is that liquid?

Jessica Wynn (13:08)

Exactly. And there's other solvents like ethanol that can work too, but CO2 is the most common. And then these solvents absorb oils and flavors of the hemp, then the CO2 converts back to gas and it leaves behind that concentrated cbd.

Jordan Harbinger (13:23)

Oh, interesting. So is this like the hemp oil they sell at Whole Foods or is this a different process?

Jessica Wynn (13:28)

No, and that's another common confusion. Right. Hemp oil is cold pressed from just the hemp seeds. CBD comes from the flowers and the leaves. And that's what's all rich in the cannabinoids.

Jordan Harbinger (13:41)

I see. So grow it, extract it, eat it or smoke it or drink it or whatever.

Jessica Wynn (13:45)

Almost. There's one. One other step. So after extraction, it needs to be refined to remove gunk like waxes or chlorophyll.

Jordan Harbinger (13:54)

I see.

Jessica Wynn (13:54)

And if it's an isolate, it's further purified through things like chromatography, which is a lab technique used to separate a mixture's components. Alternatively, chemically identical synthetic CBD is made in labs through chemical reactions, but it's not well regulated and often has a different molecular structure than hemp derived CBD and it gives you different effects. So it's recommended to steer clear of the synthetics.

Jordan Harbinger (14:22)

Yeah, that sounds kind of scary. Yeah, I never really trust those things. I mean, look, maybe that's an anti science standpoint because I don't understand it, but when you say, oh, it's synthetic, unless it's the same thing for sure, they go, oh, it's the same thing, except we chopped off a couple of hydrogen atoms. But it does the same thing. It's like, well, wait a minute, I don't want to find out in 20 years. Those two extra hydrogen atoms was the reason this wasn't cancerous in one form and is in another.

Jessica Wynn (14:44)

Exactly.

Jordan Harbinger (14:45)

Again, you can tell I'm not a chemist and some chemist is going to be like, dude, calm down, it's fine.

Jessica Wynn (14:49)

Chemistry is fragile though. I mean, it's a valid concern partially.

Jordan Harbinger (14:53)

Because also if you're not making it from the natural stuff, and I know there's like the naturalism appeal to nature fallacy where natural is better, but it's kind of like, wait, is it cheaper this way? Because if you're doing it because it's cheaper, does that mean you're cutting corners in other places where maybe you shouldn't be? I don't know.

Jessica Wynn (15:10)

That's definitely the main reason they do it. It's cost effective. Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger (15:13)

So that's more of what worries me versus, like, hey, you can make this molecule because, like, they synthesize insulin, and if I were diabetic, I wouldn't be like, no, I want real insulin. Okay, Hannibal Lecter, calm down. You can get the synthetic and it's totally fine, but they're not going, let's make the cheapest damn insulin we can, even if there's a little bit of gasoline in it. Right. But they're doing that kind of thing with cbd. I remember. Or at least with certain synthetic drugs. Like, I remember hearing about how people were making their own vape cartridges. This is another skeptical Sunday entirely. But they were making their own vape cartridges. And it's like, oh, yeah, this guy just uses butane or something because it's cheaper than the other thing. And people are inhaling tons of this cheap oil that they used other solvents in, and you're just inhaling that in your lungs. It saves five bucks. Yeah, it might be meth anyway. Sort of mad scientist vibes for a lot of this stuff. That doesn't really sit well with me.

Jessica Wynn (16:03)

Yeah, for sure.

Jordan Harbinger (16:04)

I'm something of a scientist myself.

Jessica Wynn (16:07)

I mean, it's true, but. And then it goes on to be lab tested for purity, potency, safety, you hope.

Jordan Harbinger (16:15)

Yeah, exactly.

Jessica Wynn (16:16)

Good companies will post coas, which are certificates of analysis on the labels. The refined and tested CBD extract is then usually dissolved into a carrier oil like that hemp seed oil, to be used in all the various CBD products that we see on the shelves. So definitely look for that COA on the labels.

Jordan Harbinger (16:37)

Does it matter how we take cbd? I think I usually either eat gummies or I've got a dropper full of oil.

Jessica Wynn (16:43)

It absolutely matters. So CBD doesn't seem to be very bioavailable orally, Meaning if you eat it or drink it, it's digested a bit before it hits the bloodstream. Transdermal patches and those nasal sprays, they're a bit more efficient, but the research suggests that the best method is transmucosal, and that's where you put it under your tongue and let it absorb right into the bloodstream. So researchers at Johns Hopkins University are Studying the different effects from CBD being inhaled, swallowed, or used externally. But we need patience because this requires long term observational research. And since it's only been legal since 2018, you know, the research is, is new. But I will definitely say, please don't vape cbd. Just don't vape.

Jordan Harbinger (17:35)

Yes. No, that's another. Like I said, it's another skeptical Sunday that we should probably do. I guess CBD hasn't been legal long enough to have conclusive research, which is again, a little bit frightening. So in the meantime, we'll just eat it, smoke it, and roll around in it.

Jessica Wynn (17:47)

Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger (17:48)

You know, anyway, I mean, even though.

Jessica Wynn (17:49)

We don't know, definitely think about how you're taking it because like with the vaping here, like a little PSA vaping is cigarettes 2.0. And for sure, instead of lung cancer, the data I've come across that's piling up shows stomach cancer is going to ravage society in the future because of all this vape juice.

Jordan Harbinger (18:08)

Gross. Vape juice. So is all the CBD stuff legal? I know California, it has the stuff with THC in it. I can't bring it on the plane, but I don't know if pure CBD is just legal everywhere.

Jessica Wynn (18:19)

Yeah, I mean, in theory. So in December 2015, the FDA eased regulations to allow for CBD research. And then with that 2018 farm bill, Congress made hemp but not marijuana legal in all 50 states. This removed CBD from the Controlled Substances act, and that's when CBD flooded the shelves. The downside is that if your CBD product has too much THC and you live in a state where weed is illegal, it's rare, but you can be busted.

Jordan Harbinger (18:53)

So people have been charged with CBD possession. That sounds crazy to me.

Jessica Wynn (18:57)

It's just a dumb bummer. Yeah, but every incident of it I found is ridiculous. So in 2019, a 69 year old woman, a grandmother, she has CBD oil in her purse that she uses for arthritis. She goes to Disney World with her family, her grandkids, security finds the oil in her purse, they test it, find THC and arrest her for felony hashish possession.

Jordan Harbinger (19:25)

Wow. Did she go to jail for that?

Jessica Wynn (19:27)

Yeah. Yeah, the happiest place on earth through grandma in jail. And the charges were dropped. But her lawsuit against Disney is ongoing and all the similar cases I've read about have ended and dropped charges. So it's confusing, not just for the consumer, but for law enforcement who can't tell the difference.

Jordan Harbinger (19:47)

I gotta wonder. Look, I have no evidence for this. But it seems to me like Disney's not incentivized to throw random grandmothers in jail because it makes people unhappy. It's illegal. You'll cost them publicity, bad reputation. So I would love the details on that because I have a feeling there's more to this story. Like, she was wiling out somewhere, and they were like, all right, well, we can take this or whatever, because why would Disney security be like, oh, we just happen to have a lab where we can test your CBD oil on site and call the police.

Jessica Wynn (20:16)

I felt the same way, and I started digging into it, and it's. You will be shocked to know how many people, whatever they have on them, gets tested. The security at Disney World has these little test strips, apparently, and if they turn red, you're not getting in.

Jordan Harbinger (20:34)

Not getting in is one thing, but having them be like, and we're going to put you in jail. It's kind of like, why can't they take it and go? You can't bring in marijuana. I'm sure you forgot you had it. We have to throw it in this can or you have to leave. And they're just like, chuck it in the garbage. The end. Enjoy your day.

Jessica Wynn (20:47)

Come on this particular case, the civil rights attorney Ben Crump, that's who is representing her. So there's definitely racial components to the whole case. And it's such a mess.

Jordan Harbinger (20:59)

It's such a mess. It's like saying avocados are legal, but guacamole is not legal.

Jessica Wynn (21:03)

I know. And before the Farm Bill, it was even messier. So a lot of CBD was being imported mainly from China, and it was full of heavy metals.

Jordan Harbinger (21:15)

China. So it all depends on the manufacturing process used, where this stuff comes from, because that's really gross and scary to think, oh, I got this CBD oil off of Amazon. Oh, there's a bunch of mercury in here or something. That's terrifying.

Jessica Wynn (21:28)

I mean, it's really scary. And it just depends how honest the company is you're buying the CBD from because there's no regulations requiring companies to tell you how they extract it, where it's grown, or if it contains toxins.

Jordan Harbinger (21:44)

You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. This episode is also sponsored by flykit. If you travel internationally a lot, well, congrat your freaking lations. Maybe you don't have little kids, but anyway, jet lag is your enemy, right? It used to steal days, even weeks from my life. And enter Flykit, the jet lag game. Changer. I first discovered it on a trip to Bhutan before kids when I could actually do stuff. The trip leader swore by it and at first glance it seemed like glorified vitamins and I was kind of pissed. I actually asked for a refund. And then I tried the app and it's not hocus pocus. It's algorithm based scheduling tailored to your trip details. It tells you when to eat, when to sleep, when to take the supplements, and it's like having a personal travel health assistant in your pocket. I've tested it on multiple time zone busting trips to and from Asia and beyond and it works every single time. Flykit is rooted in Navy SEAL research and was initially designed for fighter pilots and athletes to combat inflammation that flying causes. FlyKit uses AI because of course, to time everything from light exposure to meals, all tailored to your specific travel itinerary. So if you're tired of losing precious days of your life to jet lag, you've got to check out flykit. A few of you have tried it. You said it was amazing. I'm telling you this is not just like placebo. Oh, I'm not tired. I this is completely different than jet lag. It's like dealing with jet lag when you're a teenager. You almost just don't even care. Everything is in one small organized packet. The app walks you through every step of the way. Go to flykit with 2t's com that's flykit f l y k I t t.com to get a fly kit for 15% off with code jordan flykit with 2t's.com, promo code jordan. Try it out on your next trip. Let me know how it lands for you. I want to know what you think. This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. There's so much mental health advice out there right now, and some of it's helpful, but a lot of it's just noise. That's why I recommend and personally use BetterHelp. It connects you with a real therapist who can actually help you figure out what's useful and what's someone else's unqualified hot take. Better help has over 30,000 licensed therapists and has helped more than 5 million people. It's online, it's convenient. You can do a session from your couch, your car. I do it on outdoor walks, probably scaring my neighbors. And if your first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime. No awkward breakup conversation required. And that's super important and may take a few tries to match with the therapist. That's a good fit. I've tried referrals from friends and nothing comes close in terms of convenience as BetterHelp.

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Jordan Harbinger (24:23)

Little behind the scenes info that you might not know. Using our promo code. It doesn't just get you a discount. It really does help support the show. I know you're not totally ignorant of that, but we don't earn a commission from the sales. A lot of people think we do that. But when companies see that people are responding to the ad, that sponsor is more likely to continue their partnership with us. So if you decide to sign up for something, please use our code. It's Jordan a lot of the time, but not always. Definitely check the deals page. It is a double win. You get a great deal, you help keep the show thriving, and thank you for the support. All right, back to Skeptical Sunday. Companies just don't have to tell us what we're buying. That will never not be surprising. And I know it's like, oh, supplements, they can have anything. My buddy sells mushrooms, like actual, you know, like the adaptogenic mushrooms you get in all these supplements. And he's a high quality supplier. And I was like, yeah, these are really expensive. And he goes, yeah, there's cheaper Chinese suppliers. And I'm like, they must be eating your lunch. And he's like, well, yes, but people who use these know that when you're buying a lot of the cheap Chinese mushrooms, you're getting one, not the same mushrooms they say they are. And two, they've tested a bunch of Chinese mushrooms from suppliers for their own stuff. And they're like this one, 80% sawdust. This one we're not sure, but it sure wasn't mushrooms. This one, mushrooms, but not the mushrooms. We bought this one, which was twice the price. Okay? But they said it was grade X when it was actually grade Z. And so he tests this stuff and he's like, but this is what you're buying when you buy like knockoff mushroom coffee that's cheaper. You're getting like sawdust coffee from China. It's really yucky.

Jessica Wynn (25:56)

Unfortunately, none of that surprises me. The FDA doesn't regulate supplements and now CBD is classified a supplement. How does something go from a Schedule 1 drug to a supplement. I'm not quite sure.

Jordan Harbinger (26:11)

Cocaine, now a supplement.

Jessica Wynn (26:13)

Put it back in the.

Jordan Harbinger (26:14)

Don't worry about it anymore.

Jessica Wynn (26:15)

Yeah, but I mean, that means no oversight, no standard dosage, no guarantees. And the labels can lie to us.

Jordan Harbinger (26:24)

Yeah.

Jessica Wynn (26:25)

And yeah, unregulated products, they could contain pesticides, those heavy metals, just all these harmful chemicals. So again, that coa on the label does help.

Jordan Harbinger (26:36)

But companies face some consequences for making bogus claims. Right. I mean, I know you can't sue a company in China, but what about in the United States?

Jessica Wynn (26:43)

Yeah. I mean, if they get caught. Right. I mean, it's illegal to claim CBD cures anything.

Jordan Harbinger (26:48)

Sure.

Jessica Wynn (26:49)

Especially stuff like cancer or Covid, which some companies claimed CBD could cure. Spoiler, it cannot. But CBD marketing is still, like, miles ahead of the science.

Jordan Harbinger (27:02)

There's so much room for scams in this industry. Wow.

Jessica Wynn (27:05)

A University of Pennsylvania study recently looked at 84 CBD products from 31 companies. Of all the oils, tinctures and vape products, they found 70% were egregiously mislabeled. And then in 2021, the University of Colorado did a study also finding the percentages of CBD and THC that we see on the packages are just completely unreliable.

Jordan Harbinger (27:33)

Yeah, that's scary. So there's no way to tell what's in it. You just have to trust the brand that you buy or the place where you buy it from.

Jessica Wynn (27:39)

Yeah, exactly. And cont, contaminants are really common in the CBD industry because of low quality hemp, cheap solvents, no safety checks. This is all the reasons you want that coa from a third party lab so you can verify what's in it and what's not.

Jordan Harbinger (27:56)

So know your drug dealer. CBD dealer. It's so lame that we probably need CBD test kits at home. I really never thought about it, but these CBD stores, it's almost like pyramid schemes, right? They're just popping up everywhere. Everyone's like, I have my own brand of CBD something. And you're like, why? Why do you have your own brand based on your Instagram thing or like your podcast? It just, none of it makes sense to me. It's so strange.

Jessica Wynn (28:21)

Yeah, it's like the wild, wild west. I mean, you were not wrong to wonder about all of that because the business side of all of this is pretty shady. CBD multi level marketing scams are out there. Companies recruit customers to become sellers who recruit more sellers. It's actually the premise of that American TV series on Comedy Central. Nora from Queens. Hi. There.

Jordan Harbinger (28:46)

Welcome to CBD bliss zone.

Jessica Wynn (28:48)

You guys interested in lotions, perhaps? Because I got one that would relax.

Jordan Harbinger (28:53)

The body, but also makes that late night bum bum. How'd you know?

Jessica Wynn (28:57)

Oh, I knew his legs get cramped in 69. Oh, no.

Jordan Harbinger (29:01)

I have a excellent lotion that I think that you should definitely try.

Jessica Wynn (29:05)

Thank you. Thank you. I spray this all over you, baby. Yeah. You can try this out.

Jordan Harbinger (29:09)

I do.

Jessica Wynn (29:09)

From the moment you got you guys logged in, you're a bunch of freaks.

Kristen Bell (29:13)

Wow, Nora, you're like so good at sales.

Jordan Harbinger (29:16)

Yeah.

Jessica Wynn (29:17)

You know, nbd, cbd, just vibing with it. So. Yeah. So if the business model of a brand has an Avon vibe like this, it's more about recruitment than the product. And that's a red flag.

Jordan Harbinger (29:30)

That's always a red flag, right? So are we now buying fake CBD from wellness cults? Is that what you're kind of hinting at here?

Jessica Wynn (29:36)

Yeah, it's possible. But there are legit uses for cbd. The trick is knowing who to trust.

Jordan Harbinger (29:43)

I get my stuff from a high end dispensary around here that doesn't have gang fights in the parking lot like half the places around San Jose. And this brand has all those, like their certificates and everything. But it doesn't really matter if it's, you know, 100% amazing CBD if CBD doesn't actually do anything. So I don't know, I'm still on the fence, which is why we're doing this episode. So do any trusted claims around CBD have any merit? Or am I just buying expensive non psychoactive marijuana and pissing it out? Basically.

Jessica Wynn (30:11)

I mean, there's over 27,000 scientific papers that have explored cannabis and cannabinoids. I only got through a sampling of those studies, but it's promising that there's potential therapeutic roles of the hemp plant and its compounds, especially from prescription cbd. But most of the hype goes far beyond what can be proved.

Jordan Harbinger (30:34)

Based on all the Insta and TikTok posts, you'd think CBD was certified magic.

Jessica Wynn (30:38)

That's the danger, right? I mean, look, some early research shows that it can help anxiety, sleep, chronic pain, but we just don't have large controlled human trials to back most of that up. And quality does matter.

Jordan Harbinger (30:54)

Do we know if there's any side effects? Aside from making people talk endlessly and post about taking cbd, the side effect seems to be everybody can't shut the hell up about cbd.

Jessica Wynn (31:03)

I know when I tell people I don't take cbd, they're like what? You know, like.

Jordan Harbinger (31:08)

Yeah, they.

Jessica Wynn (31:09)

They just.

Jordan Harbinger (31:09)

How dare you.

Jessica Wynn (31:10)

Can't understand it. Yeah. So CBD can cause mild side effects for some people, like nausea, fatigue, and irrit. Most importantly, CBD interacts with our liver enzymes that metabolize 60% of common medications. So, yeah, people might be familiar with a similar reaction that grapefruit juice has on medication. It's the same complication, which means it can mess with blood thinners, antidepressants, even antibiotics.

Jordan Harbinger (31:39)

Oh, that's not good. So let me get this straight. It goes into the liver, and then the chemicals in our liver that say, I'm going to break you down into helpful pieces. They're already busy breaking down the cbd. So when your medication goes in there, they're like, sit in the waiting room for an extra three hours or just go directly to the bladder. And so we're not processing those in the way that we need to. I can see a lot of people who are on antidepressants or antibiotics taking CBD and being like, this is great because I'm taking antidepressants and the CBD is going to help with my depression, or I'm taking the CBD and it's going to help with whatever issue I've got alongside these antibiotics. But what you're doing is making those medications less effective, which is really scary. It's really bad news.

Jessica Wynn (32:19)

You think something's wrong with you?

Jordan Harbinger (32:21)

Yeah. It's another reason we need more studies. Because I don't want to be taking something that messes with how I metabolize a certain medication. I don't take medication at all right now. But I think most people at some point in their life take a medication. And if you're taking CBD every day, just as kind of a baseline thing with your latte in the morning or coffee in the morning, that's a big problem.

Jessica Wynn (32:42)

Sure. And if you find yourself with a reason to take antibiotics or something, I mean, just make sure you let your doctor know you're taking CBD so they can keep an eye on those liver enzymes. But, you know, honestly, it seems like the levels of CBD people consume are so low that side effects are probably pretty rare for the majority of consumers. Just don't assume that that natural label means safe. You know, if you're taking anxiety meds and cbd, there's reason to believe you're probably doing more harm than good.

Jordan Harbinger (33:19)

Well, that makes me anxious to even hear about. But can it replace anxiety meds? Because I think a lot of people think, oh, I can Use CBD for anxiety. I can use CBD for sleep. And it's kind of like, well, if you're already taking medication for that, you can't do that, right?

Jessica Wynn (33:33)

I mean, there's some clinical trials that suggest CBD may help reduce anxiety, especially social anxiety. Some studies are showing that CBD reduces our core body temperature, which is what is helping us promote sleep. But as for depression, preliminary studies show it could alter serotonin levels. But there's just so much more that needs to be studied, because in some cases, CBD is stimulating for someone, and then in other cases, it makes them sleepy. You know, it just depends on so many factors, and not just with anxiety and sleep. I mean, pessimism rises when CBD claims of alleviating chronic pain are introduced.

Jordan Harbinger (34:19)

Isn't that what all the CBD lotions are for dealing with chronic pain? There's creams. My dad uses one. He's like, it works so well. But he. It's funny because he's like, it works seconds after he puts it on. And I don't have the heart to be like, yeah, that's placebo. If it's taking effect within 10 seconds.

Jessica Wynn (34:34)

I know. And that poor grandma at Disney World.

Jordan Harbinger (34:36)

Yeah, that's right. She's like, it helps my arthritis. And they're like, actually, it just puts you in jail. It doesn't actually do anything for your arthritis.

Jessica Wynn (34:42)

There's a story. Small number of studies that show CBD helps with inflammatory or nerve pain, but others do say it's never better than the placebo effect. So, you know, you're right. There's definitely a placebo effect. But that doesn't mean the relief your dad's getting isn't real.

Jordan Harbinger (34:59)

So no miracle cure lies in cbd, but a lot of chronic pain sufferers tend to swear by it. And I almost feel bad because we're telling them with this episode, hey, it might just be the placebo effect. I hope that doesn't ruin it for them.

Jessica Wynn (35:09)

I know. I mean, chronic pain research is really mixed, which is frustrating because sufferers are often just desperate to help alleviate those symptoms. One animal study from the European Journal of Pain suggests CBD could help lower arthritis pain. Another study from researchers at University of Bath, though, finds no evidence that CBD products reduce chronic pain. And I love this study from the University of Bath because the researchers just really express their frustration in the study because the products are so unreliable, they can't do any proper research.

Jordan Harbinger (35:49)

Like, footnote, these damn vials don't actually have any CBD in them. We have to test everything.

Jessica Wynn (35:54)

I mean, absolutely.

Jordan Harbinger (35:55)

What a pain in the head.

Jessica Wynn (35:55)

They just kind of gave up and said, look, taking CBD is a waste of money. It's potentially harmful to your health. And we're not saying that because CBD doesn't do anything, but because everything we're being sold contains varying amounts of CBD and sometimes no CBD is in the products.

Jordan Harbinger (36:13)

Oh, man. And by the way, I'm going to say it for our UK listeners who are cringing. We know it's the University of Bath, but no one's going to say that, so just suck it up, folks. I met someone from Bath and they couldn't. When I said, oh, you're from Bath, they were like, oh, don't do that to me. Which I kind of understand, I suppose. But you know what? Tough Kishka. So all the shady. All the shady marketing and labeling scams are confusing what CBD actually does. Which sucks because it sounds like that study wasn't, hey, this doesn't do anything for anything. It was. It kind of doesn't do a whole lot for chronic pain. And also, trying to even test this is impossible because 99 times out of a hundred, the thing you're buying at the store that says it's CBD doesn't even have the amount of CBD in it or any CBD in it. So it kind of doesn't matter if it helps with pain. You're not able to buy it anywhere. You just think you can.

Jessica Wynn (36:59)

I mean. Yeah, I know. The problem is, of the just 16 randomized controlled trials that have explored the link between pain and CBD, 15 of them have shown no positive results. The Studies show a 25% decrease in pain with the placebo effect, though I.

Jordan Harbinger (37:18)

Suppose even if it is a placebo, though, that's still a win. Again, we're hopefully not ruining that for everybody listening.

Jessica Wynn (37:23)

Yeah, I mean, it's certainly meaningful. The placebo effect is a very real thing and powerful for chronic conditions. So the burden is on the consumer buying things that don't work the way they're marketed. I mean, outlandish CBD claims overshadow the real results for a few certain conditions.

Jordan Harbinger (37:43)

So no prescription CBD is actually approved.

Jessica Wynn (37:46)

There is one, Epidiolex, and that's a prescription medication which is successfully used to treat really rare childhood epilepsy. It's FDA approved, it's regulated and highly purified. I'm talking the purest CBD isolate found, and it's only used for these two, like, really severe epileptic Disorders called Dravitt syndrome and Lennox Gestalt syndrome, both of which begin in childhood.

Jordan Harbinger (38:19)

Huh. So there is some legit medical use case for cbd that's promising. But it's. This is like weapons grade cbd.

Jessica Wynn (38:25)

Yeah.

Jordan Harbinger (38:26)

Not the stuff you find available online or whatever via an Instagram ad.

Jessica Wynn (38:30)

Yeah, exactly. And surprisingly, with these two, they're finding that some kids with the seizure conditions also are showing reduced autistic behaviors after taking the Epidiolex.

Jordan Harbinger (38:42)

Oh, wow.

Jessica Wynn (38:43)

We don't know why yet because of course, more research is needed.

Jordan Harbinger (38:46)

Wow. Alleviating seizures in children is huge. I mean, I don't know what reduced autistic behaviors means because that's such a. Again, it's a huge spectrum.

Jessica Wynn (38:55)

Exactly. I mean, that's why we have to do more studies. But that's what they're doing saying, yeah, I don't know.

Jordan Harbinger (39:00)

I'm always cautious with this because we have, first of all, we have autistic listeners. And I'm not, I'm not saying like, I don't want to offend people. What I'm saying is they'll write in and go, you guys talk about autism like we're some sort of weird, dysfunctional group of people that can't tie our shoes. I'm an engineer at NASA, you know, And I'm like, yeah, yeah, so what does that mean? Because that guy's doing just fine. He's actually doing really great. So, like, what is the autistic behavior, I'm wondering that they are trying to. To get less of with a drug?

Jessica Wynn (39:27)

I don't know from what I've come across in this research. I mean, I think it's really the really extreme cases that they're seeing.

Jordan Harbinger (39:35)

Right. And then maybe they don't have those ticks or something that you see sometimes. I'm just curious what that means, I guess. But I digress.

Jessica Wynn (39:40)

Here's the thing, and what needs to be stressed is that these doses of CBD prescribed for these conditions and in clinical trials is just so much higher than what you get casually buying a soda or a gummy because you're anxious about going to some party. I mean, that's the disconnect. People buy low grade products hoping for medical grade effects, and that's just not realistic. Many researchers believe that low doses and all the stuff the general public buys is genuinely not effective and it's just CBD theater. But people don't like to admit they're on the placebo train.

Jordan Harbinger (40:19)

I see. Well, at least nobody's overdosing on cbd, right?

Jessica Wynn (40:23)

True, but the dosage still matters. So there are instances where low doses of CBD have proved to engage with the endocannabinoid system without any severe side effects. So people assume that higher doses of CBD will be more effective. But without sufficient studies, we just can't pinpoint what the effective doses are.

Jordan Harbinger (40:45)

You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Shopify. Starting something from scratch. Whether it's a business, a podcast, whatever, it feels like you need to become an expert in 37 unrelated things overnight. Branding, marketing, web design, shipping, taxes. Congratulations. You've unlocked your dream. And now you're also the whole entire staff. I wish I had Shopify back in the day. It's not just an online store. Shopify is like a business co founder who never sleeps, doesn't complain, quietly crushes it behind the scenes. And that's the sound of a sale coming through on Shopify, which powers 10% of all E commerce in the US supporting iconic brands like Mattel and Gymshark all the way to first time side hustlers. Shipping from their garage. They've got hundreds of templates to make your site look pro. AI tools built in marketing helps you reach people wherever they scroll. Shopify even handles the heavy stuff. Inventory, shipping, returns, international orders so you can focus on growing. So if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify.

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Jordan Harbinger (42:52)

I've Got Homes.com is a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows what when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks, transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in depth information, I'm talking deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com We've done your homework. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment support our amazing sponsors. I told you how all that works before. All the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are searchable and Clickable over at jordanharbinger.com deals if you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code. Feel free to email me jordanordanharbinger.com it is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. I learned this on another Skeptical Sunday. You can have things like endocrine disruptors where a lower dose does more than a higher dose. And I can't begin to explain why that's the case. Right? But I guess like, in a lower dose, it'll make whatever receptor it attaches to, it'll make those neurons or whatever do something. But in a higher dose, your body's like, ignore all of that. This is a foreign substance. So yeah, without knowing what the Dose is. That is a problem, Especially because, like, look, I know I'm showing my cards here a little bit, but if I'm going to take a marijuana edible, I know I'm taking 2 milligrams because I'm a cheap date. And it's going to do XYZ within this certain kind of band of effects. Right. It's going to be like, you're going to be tired, but you're not going to forget your name. But with cbd, I'm like, all right, I took a full dropper. I guess I'm getting 40 milligrams of CBD. I don't know what this is going to do. Maybe nothing. And then it's like, all right, tomorrow I'm going to take 80. And then I'm like, I feel kind of gross now. I can't make the dose do a thing because I can't feel the thing that it does. Does that make sense?

Jessica Wynn (45:08)

Yeah, exactly. I mean, the THC amount you're taking was probably trial by error, you know?

Jordan Harbinger (45:14)

Yes, of course. Yeah. Many errors. Many nights in the fetal position, and I'm like, okay, never do more than three. But this is, again, it's not a one size fits all kind of thing because not all CBD is the same. So it's almost like it just makes it so complicated to figure this out.

Jessica Wynn (45:28)

And CBD behaves differently depending on the extract. So two people can take the same dose and have totally different experiences. The ideal dosage depends on each individual's biology. You know, we all don't metabolize things the same way, and so much depends on the type of product used.

Jordan Harbinger (45:49)

What do you mean by type of product?

Jessica Wynn (45:51)

Just the different ways to use cbd. Right. There's oils, gummies, capsules, beverages, the lotions, all of that.

Jordan Harbinger (45:58)

So the amount of CBD that actually enters our body is different in each type of product. I guess that makes sense.

Jessica Wynn (46:04)

Yeah. You know, plus our body weight and chemistry influences the amount of C, B, D one needs to have any effect. This is because, you know, body weight affects our metabolism, it affects our circulation.

Jordan Harbinger (46:15)

Sure.

Jessica Wynn (46:16)

Your weight also affects the amount of time for which CBD stays in your body. But again, there's no, like, concrete chart or something to dictate who should take what and when.

Jordan Harbinger (46:28)

So what do we actually know? It sounds like not much, frankly.

Jessica Wynn (46:32)

Yeah, I mean, what's undeniable is that people with serious health issues like Epilepsy, Ms. and Anxiety Report better sleep, better mood, better quality of life after starting cbd. I mean, that Means something, but it is anecdotal. I personally know someone with aggressive Ms. Who swears by it not as a cure, but as something that helps their just daily discomfort. And that alone is worth studying.

Jordan Harbinger (47:00)

And I'm guessing it's not addictive.

Jessica Wynn (47:02)

According to the World Health Organization, CBD shows no signs of being addictive. And to date, there's just no evidence of public health related problems associated with the use of CBD isolate. This changes when you consider the full spectrum extract that includes thc. But as far as pure CBD goes, research points to the opposite of addiction.

Jordan Harbinger (47:26)

Okay, what's the opposite of addiction?

Jessica Wynn (47:28)

So research in both animals and humans suggests CBD may help with addiction. Several studies show it can lower cravings for tobacco and heroin under certain conditions.

Jordan Harbinger (47:40)

Wow. I prefer my heroin without tobacco, but to each our own, I suppose.

Jessica Wynn (47:44)

I mean, there's other evidence that suggests it may also help lessen cravings for alcohol, other opiates, other stimulants. It just really seems to depend on the type of product used.

Jordan Harbinger (47:56)

It's kind of a running joke that THC reduces your cravings for a lot of things. Right. You get the munchies, but you don't really want to work and you don't feel stress anymore and you don't, you know. So do other countries regulate CBD more or less strictly? Like, is this a US puritanical culture thing where it's been illegal so we're sort of sliding back into it? Or is Europe like, hey, this is something everybody uses?

Jessica Wynn (48:17)

I mean, no one is traveling internationally to get CBD therapy. The studies in the US actually are influencing hemp legislation over the pond. CBD was also legalized in the UK in 2018. It's legal in most places around the world, but it's that THC percentage that varies. So for instance, in Switzerland, CBD can have up to 1% THC, but in Ireland, it has to be CBD isolate with absolutely no THC allowed. So every country seems to struggle with this testing and labeling.

Jordan Harbinger (48:54)

So even overseas, it's all just the wild, wild west of cannabis.

Jessica Wynn (48:57)

Yeah, and it's not set here in the US either. I mean, the drama continues. As I was writing this, in July 2025, Texas Representative James Talarico, he went on the Joe Rogan show to sound the alarm about a new bill put forward by Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick to ban all hemp products.

Jordan Harbinger (49:20)

So that's just going to wipe out hundreds of businesses.

Jessica Wynn (49:22)

Yeah, and lay off thousands of people in an industry that seems to be giving people Relief.

Jordan Harbinger (49:27)

And why Dan Patrick just thought like, hey, you know what's helping too many people? These plants. Let's get rid of them. Or is this kind of like. I always feel like there's a money motivator somewhere. So what is it?

Jessica Wynn (49:37)

Absolutely. Representative Talarico. He's just blasting the proposal, claiming the real reason is pressure from a very familiar industry that's terrified of losing money.

Jordan Harbinger (49:48)

I see. So is this like booze makers are upset that people are doing weed and CBD instead?

Jessica Wynn (49:55)

Yeah. I mean, you nailed it. And while I can't find solid data, it does seem alcohol sales have dropped in states with full legalization, like Colorado and California. So it's no surprise the alcohol industry is reportedly lobbying hard to yank hemp, CBD and THC off the shelves.

Jordan Harbinger (50:14)

Yikes. Yeah, burn the competition to the ground. Just don't inhale afterwards.

Jessica Wynn (50:18)

Exactly. Representative Talarico is accusing Dan Patrick and other Texas politicians of working hand in hand with the alcohol industry to make this happen. So, you know, stay tuned. It's still unfolding.

Jordan Harbinger (50:33)

Yeah, I mean, there's that whole debate around what's more harmful, alcohol or marijuana is quite conclusive, so. And CBD's over here trying to chill everyone out. I guess I was going to say shocking, but it's not shocking at all that somebody who's got a bunch of money from booze brands is going to say, oh, it's the marijuanas. They're terrible. Reefer madness.

Jessica Wynn (50:52)

And CBD is marketed by a lot of lifestyle brands. You know, on the other extreme as this multi use miracle molecule. Yes. It does interact with multiple biological pathways. It offers some users relief, which is cool. But companies deceive consumers into thinking it treats everything from pain to your chakra alignment.

Jordan Harbinger (51:15)

I see. So it's a boondoggle. So it's probably making somebody rich, right?

Jessica Wynn (51:19)

Oh, of course. In 2021, the global CBD market was worth about $3 billion US. By 2030, it's projected to hit $60 billion.

Jordan Harbinger (51:30)

Wow. That's real money. And if your $20 CBD latte doesn't work for you or you get high by surprise, it's kind of like, oh, well, buyer beware. And companies giggle all the way to Taco Bell to spend the profits on chalupas.

Jessica Wynn (51:44)

I mean, good thing CBD is not allowed as a food additive or we'd have CBD blasted kettle cooked enchiladas or something. But lifestyle companies like Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop or Kourtney Kardashian's Lemmy they sell CBD infused everything they can get away with, from creams for wrinkles, gummies for sex.

Jordan Harbinger (52:05)

Drive, CBD libido gummies. If your wife doesn't want you after a handful of these, she might want a snack instead. Either I. Either way, someone's getting a burrito. So I've heard about this. I'm interested to know if CBD is actually an aphrodisiac, because I've seen ads that it helps ed. I mean, my friend is interested and told me that CBD can help with erectile dysfunction. I don't know. So does it do anything for my friend's penis or not?

Jessica Wynn (52:34)

I mean, CBD for your ED is doa.

Jordan Harbinger (52:38)

Doa, huh? Womp, womp.

Jessica Wynn (52:40)

Yeah. I mean, some people claim they use CBD for their sex life, but there is zero scientific evidence to support it has any effect on your friend's erections.

Jordan Harbinger (52:51)

Oh, he'll be sad.

Jessica Wynn (52:52)

But this is another area where the placebo effect is probably helping couples. So there's strong evidence that ED involves psychological factors. So CBD could indirectly improve your friend's performance by reducing stress and anxiety.

Jordan Harbinger (53:08)

So the real miracle is the placebo effect. And we've done entire shows about it, one of which was episode 716 with Jo Marchand, which I think was a re air from a long time ago, but that was the one where we really dove into it. Her book was called A Journey into the Science of Mind Over Body. And it sounds hokey, but it's not. She's actually a health researcher, a journalist, and she talks about all about how the placebo effect really works. It's actually incredible what the placebo effect can do. And as long as you're sort of comfortable with it not being able to actually cure anything, it's just for pain, essentially. It really is kind of an amazing thing that our bodies can do. But I digress.

Jessica Wynn (53:42)

But it is. And I think the whole thing is that there's no money for pharmaceutical companies with the placebo effect. Really?

Jordan Harbinger (53:48)

That's a good point. That's a good point.

Jessica Wynn (53:50)

But as far as CBD and sex goes, I will say the one rule is if you're pregnant or breastfeeding, just stay away from any CBD product. Not because there's reason to think CBD can harm a baby, but because the questionable quality of the products can contain pesticides and other toxins and that can harm a fetus or your baby.

Jordan Harbinger (54:13)

Do CBD products contain warnings against taking them during pregnancy?

Jessica Wynn (54:16)

I mean, a lot of companies do put a warning on their packaging, but they aren't required to. Unfortunately, a lot of women were misinformed about this. When Kim Kardashian. And say what you will, but she influences a lot of people. She did the most Kardashian thing ever. And for her last child, she had a CBD themed baby shower in 2019.

Jordan Harbinger (54:39)

Oh, my gosh. The miracle of motherhood tolerated with the help of drugs like cbd. Great.

Jessica Wynn (54:44)

Yeah, it was a really weird choice. But in defense of Kim, she didn't carry that baby. It was a surrogate. But at the very publicized shower, guests made their own concoctions of body oils and lotions and bath salts. So unless you're a billionaire who can guarantee the safest products, just steer clear of any synthetic cbd, because you just don't know what else could be in there. And all of a sudden, your chill CBD bubble bath is giving you psychotic reactions, not to mention taking away any possible real benefits that CBD could bring.

Jordan Harbinger (55:22)

Oh, my God. Imagine you're like, I'm going to de stress with a bath bomb, and then suddenly you're running out of your house naked because you're on pcp. As long as we're checking the labels or have reality TV show money, CBD appears to be harmless. But what about CBD usage for or in children?

Jessica Wynn (55:40)

Yeah, I mean, I will put that in the big fat no category. So. A growing number of parents, though, are using it to treat behavioral issues in children. There's no solid evidence that CBD does anything helpful for kids. In fact, the studies I've read show horrible side effects for children from mood swings, intestinal issues, and liver toxicity. It might seem like it helps your kids sleep when it sedates them, but you're likely giving them thc, which, you know, is a huge problem for child development. Active playing proves way more effective in helping your kids be cool.

Jordan Harbinger (56:18)

So we're sedating kids with weed and just hoping it's not psychoactive. I would feel so bad if I gave my kid THC when I think I'm giving them CBD to help chill them out. That's terrible.

Jessica Wynn (56:28)

That's probably a good reason for divorce, I would imagine. If your kid gets into your gummies.

Jordan Harbinger (56:32)

I'm pretty sure you can go to jail for that. I'm quite certain.

Jessica Wynn (56:35)

Yeah. I mean, companies aren't exactly being subtle about marketing it to parents, though. I've been on websites that say CBD suppositories are a bestseller, so I just don't know what people are thinking. And for the record, CBD suppositories, unnecessary in any situation.

Jordan Harbinger (56:54)

Yeah, suppositories. That's when you have to force, like a baby to take a fever medication when they're one year old because they have a super high fever and yada yada. So if you're at the point where you're forcing a child to take a medication that is. Or a fake medication by shoving it up their butt, I'm not even trying to be funny. I mean, that's actually just like child abuse at that point.

Jessica Wynn (57:15)

I don't think people are doing it nefariously. I mean, I think people think that they're helping. You know, that's the sad part, right?

Jordan Harbinger (57:22)

Of course, even with my friend's ed, I don't know what he's into, but CBD suppositories, man. Say more. I regret saying this, but say more.

Jessica Wynn (57:30)

So, yeah, I mean, that's tame compared to some of the rabbit holes they've gone down. I also don't recommend the CBD infused sports bra offered by a company called Akabada.

Jordan Harbinger (57:41)

That can't be real. Get out of here. Why would you put a bra. What's. I don't get it. Tell me more.

Jessica Wynn (57:47)

They're sports bras infused with CBD and their bike shorts, only $125. Their infused jumpsuit only $275.

Jordan Harbinger (57:59)

So that can't be a viable business because it's too dumb.

Jessica Wynn (58:02)

I mean, you stand uncorrected because they went out of business in 2020.

Jordan Harbinger (58:08)

Wow.

Jessica Wynn (58:08)

The website's gone, but their Instagram page is still up. And it's highly entertaining.

Jordan Harbinger (58:14)

Who could have predicted that they would have gone under?

Jessica Wynn (58:16)

But they weren't the only one. You. There are other companies in existence. You can buy CBD infused on their sites, and they sell all kinds of lifestyle products, often backed up with this really common link to something called the CBD Mid Year Report. Like, whatever that means.

Jordan Harbinger (58:35)

What is that?

Jessica Wynn (58:36)

It's unclear, but it appears to be a scammy website updating consumers on CBD to make their scammy products look more official.

Jordan Harbinger (58:45)

That's exactly what it sounds like, for sure.

Jessica Wynn (58:47)

Yeah. It's not backed by any science or any certified organization. It's like this. I don't know, just a marketing thing.

Jordan Harbinger (58:53)

Yeah. So the clothes obviously come with skepticism, but so many products flood the shelves. That's crazy.

Jessica Wynn (58:58)

So many. You know, we've got CBD infused toothpicks, shampoos, bath bombs, cheeseburgers at Carl's Jr.

Jordan Harbinger (59:06)

Wait, wait, I thought you Said CBD could not be added to food.

Jessica Wynn (59:10)

It can't. But Carl's Jr. Found this legal loophole to test their Rocky Mountain high sauce at one location in Colorado for one day on Friday. 420 in 2019, naturally. So they just leveraged the legal ambiguity around CBD, but technically it broke all kinds of federal regulations.

Jordan Harbinger (59:32)

So they're like, it was just one day. And the feds were probably like, okay, we're not going to do anything this time. Don't do that again.

Jessica Wynn (59:38)

Like, it was because it was for research purposes. I don't know. They. They got around it somehow.

Jordan Harbinger (59:44)

Carl's Jr. Yeah, we're running a scientific study here in our drive through. Come on. Okay, so you were listing a bunch of weird CBD infused products. Go on. There's gotta be more toothpicks. Is weird sports bra. Definitely weird. What else?

Jessica Wynn (59:55)

Yeah, I mean, one that really sticks in my craw. CBD infused tampons.

Jordan Harbinger (60:03)

Gross. Don't do it, ladies. Wow. That. You're right. It's sticks in your cr. Why? Why does that exist?

Jessica Wynn (60:09)

Just please don't do it. A CBD tampon isn't curing anyone's cramps, but it's probably appealing to somebody in some pain. It's just not how it works. It's just an overpriced sponge with really cute packaging.

Jordan Harbinger (60:24)

Oh my God. I can see people falling for those. I've actually heard of vodka soaked tampons back at Michigan. People would go to the football game and you couldn't bring alcohol in. And going back and forth would be a huge pain. And drinking a lot would be a huge pain. So they soak a tampon and they would put it in and they would just be wasted. But wouldn't, by the way, wouldn't that burn?

Jessica Wynn (60:42)

Yeah, I would think. Also a big sign you have a problem. But it is true. That will get you drunk. It's also really dangerous. To use tampons as a delivery system for anything is dangerous and crazy because absorbing things that way, it bypasses your digestion and it hits the bloodstream directly. Plus CBD tampons would need such a massive dose to do anything. It's definitely not worth it. And tampons are already criminally expensive, but you slap a CBD label on them and you're like digging into savings once a month to shove God knows what in your vagina. Same with the CBD toilet paper sold by a lot of companies.

Jordan Harbinger (61:27)

Get out. That's ridiculous. That barely touches my skin. I won't go into detail on that.

Jessica Wynn (61:32)

But yeah, one uses the slogan calm your ass down, which I see. I will say I could get behind buying as a gag gift at best, but I wouldn't even wipe my nose with it.

Jordan Harbinger (61:43)

I think they are selling that for pure novelty, but whatever. That's hilarious. I've seen CBD treats for dogs and stuff, by the way, and cats. That's gotta be bullshit too, right? Sit, stay, chill.

Jessica Wynn (61:53)

Yeah, there's. There's CBD pet products, but they also get a hard no. CBDs tested on lab animals. But there's even less research to back up CBD as a pet treatment than there is for humans. So it seems harmless and well tolerated by pets. But it's believed it can damage their livers just like in humans. And THC can be toxic to pets. So because of the lack of regulation, you gotta be careful about giving your dogs or cats or birds or whatever. Thc?

Jordan Harbinger (62:25)

Yeah, my cat almost died from eating a flower once, so I'm definitely not going to give him cbd. That may or may not be cbd.

Jessica Wynn (62:32)

I know when, when someone tells me their pet needs CBD because it has anxiety, I'm never convinced. I just assume it's the owner transferring their baggage onto their animal. But what do I know?

Jordan Harbinger (62:45)

Oh no, I'm with for sure. Like someone who is distantly related to me once told me that his dog was racist and they think he was abused by a person of color. And I'm like, well, you are also racist. So maybe he's picking up on how you treat other people. So what are your key takeaways here on cbd?

Jessica Wynn (63:04)

Tbd? On cbd. I guess it shows promise for relieving epilepsy when medically prescribed. But it's not the miracle cure the general public likes to claim. Like anything. Buyer beware. Choose products from reputable companies that offer those third party lab results so you can cut down on ingesting toxins along with that tiny amount of CBD you're buying. Just approach all the claims about your CBD products with a healthy dose of skepticism. And if you have a medical condition, my advice, always talk to your doctor before using cbd, especially if you're on prescriptions.

Jordan Harbinger (63:45)

Just because it's sold at CVS doesn't mean it's safe or effective or even real, I guess.

Jessica Wynn (63:50)

Yeah, right. I mean, it's a real chemical compound that's potentially helpful, but it's kind of scientifically underwhelming and it's wildly overhyped for the average person at the end of the day. You're never getting medical grade nor a medical dose of CBD over the counter. I would spend your money on an exercise class instead. You know I'll pass and I think you should too. And if you're upset about that, well, maybe your CBD also isn't working right.

Jordan Harbinger (64:21)

Yeah, calm down. No problem. I got my CBD here to help me do that. If nothing else, it gives us silly gifts of sports bras and bath bombs and toilet paper. Honestly though, it sounds like the cbd. The real win for CBD is what the marketing department gets to do to convince all of us to buy this stuff. Might have to grab some of that CBD toilet paper though, and wipe some of my stress away.

Jessica Wynn (64:40)

Oh, trademark it Jordan.

Jordan Harbinger (64:41)

Done. Thanks Jess. Thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me jordanordanharbinger.com advertisers, deals, discounts and ways to support the show all@jordanharbinger.com deals I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica Wynn on her sub stacks between the lines and where shadows linger and we'll link to that in the show notes as well, as we always do. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer and I'm sure as heck not a doctor. Also, we try to get these episodes as right as we can. Not everything is gospel, even if it's been fact checked by an expert. So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well being. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. What if the next 20 years bring more change than the last 200 and we're not remotely ready for it? Jamie Metzl joins me to unpack the mind blowing collision of AI, biotech and genetics that's already reshaping what it means to be human.

Jamie Metzl (66:01)

If you look at all of the scientific progress of the last hundred years and you compare that to the hundred years before that and 100 years before that, we see this rapid acceleration. Because these systems are so complex, we need a language and understanding, the language of biology which already exists for us to understand it that we need these capabilities. And AI with all these other technologies will be that. And as we as humans and as our machines learn more about how to learn, more learning becomes possible. Acceleration begets acceleration. If we think this is a conversation about technology, we're going to get lost. This is a conversation about humanity and it's a conversation about values. It's about who are we as we guide these revolutions. But humans have co evolved with our technologies for thousands of years and more likely tens of thousands of years. So it's not us versus our technology. Our technology is us. And the question is, what's the best way for us to co evolve in a healthy sustainable way. But we need to know what we're trying to achieve. Every single person has a role in deciding how these technologies are used or not used as individuals and as a community. And that needs to guide us going forward. This is about all of our future.

Jordan Harbinger (67:29)

To hear more about the breakthroughs coming faster than we can comprehend and why we urgently need to figure out how to steer the ship, Check out episode 1014 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

Jessica Wynn (67:42)

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Kristen Bell (68:12)

Oh, what you eating?

Jordan Harbinger (68:13)

The new banana split cookie from ampm. All freshly baked with real butter with banana, chocolate and strawberry flavors. Wow, that sounds amazing.

Kristen Bell (68:20)

Can I have a bite?

Jordan Harbinger (68:21)

I'm sorry but no. But you can't split the banana split.

Jessica Wynn (68:25)

Not even a little.

Jordan Harbinger (68:25)

Not even a crumb. What if. No, please. Mine when it's too legit to split. That's cravenience. Get a 3 pack for 99 cents with our app ampm. Too much good stuff plus tax where applicable. Prices and participation may vary. Terms and conditions apply.