The Jordan Harbinger Show

Episode 1212: Orion Taraban | Understanding Relationship Economics Part One

Date: September 23, 2025
Guests: Jordan Harbinger (Host), Orion Taraban (Psychologist)

Overview of Main Theme

This episode explores the realities underpinning human attraction, dating, and relationships by looking at them through the lens of "relationship economics." Psychologist Orion Taraban joins Jordan Harbinger to dissect why we pursue who we pursue, what subconsciously drives our mating strategies, and how societal scripts and evolutionary incentives shape the way men and women approach romance. The conversation tackles sensitive and controversial topics, debunking common myths, and exposing the “transactional” nature of relationships, all with a critical and nuanced view.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Talking Honestly About Relationships Is Taboo

• Solidified Beliefs: People have rigid, almost sacred beliefs about relationships, resistant to new evidence or perspectives.
  • “It was like medical religion versus science back in the middle ages.” — Jordan (08:21)
• Romantic Love as Religion: Orion suggests that modern romantic ideals are often "transfigured religious impulses" (09:20), which is why critiquing or analyzing them provokes such heated emotions.

Transactional Nature of Relationships

• Every Relationship is a Best-Option Calculation:
  • “People are in sexual relationships with their best option, period… their perceived best option.” — Orion (11:24)
  • We choose who we believe is the best available to us, based on a combination of emotional and economic "value."
• Two Lenses: Psychological & Economic:
  • Psychological advice alone (“be yourself, be confident”) is incomplete without understanding the market dynamics and relative value assessment behind attraction (12:22).

Why We Can’t Say What We Want

• Social Acceptability & Self-Awareness:
  • Both men and women often state what’s socially acceptable rather than their true desires.
  • Women, for example, may say they want kindness, but only from those they're already attracted to (15:00).
    • “If she's not attracted to you, buying her flowers is not going to make her attracted to you.” — Orion (15:53)
• Revealed Preferences vs. Stated Preferences:
  • What people do (who they date/sleep with) is often at odds with what they claim to want (18:37).

Evolution, Upbringing, and Mating Strategies

• Superficial Attraction Cues:
  • Traits like symmetry or youth are partly evolutionary selection markers, even though people may feel ashamed to prioritize them (17:14).
• Family of Origin Shapes ‘Love Templates’:
  • Our earliest relationship models—our families—define what we seek, often unconsciously, which can result in chasing the wrong things in partners (21:00).

The Market Dynamics of Modern Dating

• Dating is Marketing:
  • Strategies that work are often counterintuitive—sometimes leveraging controversy to attract attention, e.g., the 'no redheads' profile tactic (23:26).
• Optionality, Abundance, and Misperceptions:
  • Women, especially when young and attractive, can overestimate how easily short-term sexual attention converts to commitment from high-status men (20:30).

Non-Verbal Attraction and Social Proof

• Early Impressions Matter:
  • Most decisions about attraction are made before the first words are spoken; social proof (e.g., being married) can increase desirability (25:01, 26:07).
  • "If it works in business, it generally works in dating." — Orion (26:11)

Short-term vs. Long-term Relationship Criteria

• Boring is Good for Long-Term:
  • “Err on the side of being more boring when looking for long-term relationships. Err on the side of being too bold when looking for something short term.” — Orion (28:23)
• Women Want Different Things from Different Partners:
  • Women (like men) want different things depending on the context and may seek short-term flings with certain men despite desiring stability with others (28:23).

Sexual Strategies: Societal Double Standards and "Body Count"

• Men’s vs. Women’s Sexual Histories:
  • The "key and lock" analogy is rooted in economic and evolutionary factors, not just sexist culture (45:05).
  • “A key that can open any lock is a good key, but a lock that any key can open is a bad lock.” — Orion (45:05)
• Skill and Risk:
  • Competence matters: it requires more skill for most men to have sexual access; women's skill is in discernment and selection (49:45, 51:24).

Patterns of Cheating: Gender Nuances

• Men Cheat and Stay, Women Cheat and Leave:
  • For men, no significant difference in marital satisfaction between cheaters and non-cheaters;
  • Women who cheat report far lower relationship satisfaction and often use affairs to leave a relationship (59:29).
• Consecutive vs. Simultaneous Cheating:
  • Women are more likely to “monkey branch” (moving to the next partner immediately), which may not be counted as cheating in surveys but is functionally similar (63:41).

How Relationships Actually Begin

• One Pathway to Relationships:
  • Despite cultural attempts to create separate pathways (casual sex vs. commitment), most relationships today begin without clear commitment and evolve based on sustained mutual desire and compatibility (65:52, 68:19).
  • "Paradoxically, the best way to get a long term relationship is to do the things to get a short term relationship and then just keep doing them for longer." — Orion (66:18)

Gender Strategies and Social Competition

• Intrasexual Competition:
  • Women, consciously or not, may advise attractive rivals to cut their hair or adopt certain styles to reduce competition (75:14).
  • “Women are playing 10D chess with each other.” — Jordan (75:43)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Insight | |-----------|---------|---------------| | 09:20 | Orion | "A lot of romantic love is transfigured religious impulse..." | | 11:24 | Orion | "People are in sexual relationships with their best option, period… their perceived best option." | | 15:53 | Orion | "If she's not attracted to you, buying her flowers is not going to make her attracted to you." | | 18:37 | Jordan | “Watch what they do... It's stated versus actual preferences.” | | 28:23 | Orion | “Err on the side of being more boring when looking for long-term relationships. Err on the side of being too bold when looking for something short term.” | | 45:05 | Orion | "A key that can open any lock is a good key, but a lock that any key can open is a bad lock." | | 51:24 | Orion | “For men to get laid requires a lot more skill and mastery than most women will ever know or are willing to admit.” | | 59:29 | Orion | "There's no statistically significant significant difference in relationship satisfaction between men who cheat and men who don't... huge discrepancy for women.” | | 63:41 | Orion | "Technically, no cheating has occurred... But if you count consecutive relationships, women cheat just as much as men." | | 66:18 | Orion | "Paradoxically, the best way to get a long term relationship is to do the things to get a short term relationship and then just keep doing them for longer." | | 75:43 | Jordan | “Women are playing like 10D chess with each other.” |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:55] — Orion on online pushback and the cultural sensitivity of the topic.
• [09:20] — Romantic love as religious impulse & resistance to analysis.
• [11:24] — The perceived “best option” theory & relationship economics.
• [15:00] — Why men and women can’t express what they actually want.
• [20:30] — Inflation of perceived abundance and timelines in dating, especially for women.
• [24:16] — Dating profiles and counterintuitive marketing in dating apps.
• [26:07] — Social proof, mate copying, and appeal of married men.
• [28:23] — Strategies for short vs. long-term relationship success.
• [45:05] — Double standards on sexual history ("body count") between men and women.
• [49:45] — Value of skill and mastery in sexual/relationship pursuits.
• [59:29] — Gendered reasons and outcomes in infidelity.
• [63:41] — Consecutive (women) vs. simultaneous (men) cheating.
• [66:18] — The single pathway for modern relationships.

Tone and Delivery

• Direct and Candid: The conversation pulls no punches, discussing taboo or uncomfortable truths with honesty.
• Nuanced: Both guests emphasize complexity, context, and the necessity of understanding both evolutionary and societal threads.
• Relatable & Insightful: Real-life anecdotes and client stories make the academic concepts accessible and engaging.
• Pragmatic: The episode is less about affirming feel-good myths, more about dissecting what works, what doesn’t, and why.

Recommended Next Steps

• For Listeners: Reflect on the true motivators and patterns at play in your own relationships. Observe revealed preferences—your actions and choices—for self-insight.
• For Further Learning: Listen to Part 2 for deeper dives into relationship dynamics, and check out Orion Taraban's related episodes and writings.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking an unvarnished, research-based look at why we choose our partners and how modern romance really operates beneath the surface.