1236: Bedroom Blame Game Sparks Consent Shame | Feedback Friday

Summary

The Jordan Harbinger Show | Episode 1236: Bedroom Blame Game Sparks Consent Shame | Feedback Friday

Release Date: November 7, 2025
Host: Jordan Harbinger
Co-host: Gabriel Mizrahi

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Episode Overview

This Feedback Friday marks the 400th episode of the series, with Jordan and Gabriel reflecting on their partnership and diving into letters from listeners dealing with complex life situations. The show continues its tradition of breaking down personal conundrums, often involving relationships, work, and self-improvement, with a mix of nuance, humor, and real-world experience. The main theme this week is grappling with issues of consent, emotional nuance, communication, and career dilemmas—with a particularly in-depth and sensitive discussion about consent and blame in the context of marriage and divorce.

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Episode Highlights & Key Discussions

1. Anniversary Reflections and Partnership Origin

[06:04 - 13:55]

• Milestone: 400th Feedback Friday episode, with a warm look back at how the show and the Jordan & Gabe team came together, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic.
  • “We’ve done 280 some odd Feedback Fridays together…and I never thought that podcasting would be part of my career in a real way. Now I love it as much or probably more than a lot of filmmaking.” — Gabriel [09:32]
• Learning and Growth: Gabe talks about entering the show during a tumultuous time and adapting to podcasting, crediting Jordan for support and patience.
  • "It's such a beautiful thing to be able to practice and develop and make mistakes with somebody who is giving you space to develop." — Gabriel [10:40]
• Listener Connection: Both acknowledge the strong audience and the impact listener letters have had on the show's evolution.

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2. Main Letter: Consent, Shame, and Emotional Complexity in Divorce

[14:03 - 29:25]

Letter Summary

A listener, going through a divorce, confronts deeply uncomfortable conversations with his wife about consent, emotional availability, and their sexual history. After comparing himself to her abusive exes (noting he never assaulted her), she's told him his behavior—appearing upset when she refused sex—still made her feel coerced, even equating it to her past traumatic experiences. The letter-writer is left questioning his own actions and feelings, especially after recalling times she initiated sex while he was asleep, which left him unsettled.

Key Insights & Discussion

• Consent Is Nuanced:
  • Jordan and Gabe explore how consent, guilt, and pressure play out in relationships, especially when trauma histories are involved.
  • “It is hard for our friend here ... to say, ‘Well, you might have felt that way, but that’s not what actually happened. I never forced you to do anything.’ It’s painful and invalidating to argue with her experience around something as loaded as consent.” — Jordan [18:54]
• Agency and Trauma:
  • Trauma complicates agency; both parties in a relationship bring their own histories and interpretations to intimate encounters.
  • "The agency to even pick healthy and safe partners ... all of that gets more complicated when there’s trauma in the picture." — Gabriel [24:03]
• Responsibility as Co-Production:
  • Both hosts assert that sexual and emotional dynamics are a ‘co-production’; each partner contributes, consciously or unconsciously, to the dynamic.
  • "I think this was a co-production between the two of you, and the real work of relationships is taking a real interest in that co-production.” — Jordan [25:14]
• Double Standard Recognized:
  • When the wife initiates sex while he’s asleep, it unsettles him, yet society often minimizes male discomfort in such situations.
  • “He probably doesn’t feel totally secure going, yeah, I didn’t like that. That was kind of violating ... Presumably because it might be embarrassing or emasculating to say that as a guy.” — Jordan [26:12]
• Emotional Literacy (Alexithymia):
  • The letter-writer struggles to understand or articulate his emotions—a pattern likely underlying the couple's communication difficulties.
  • “What in his past or his personality makes it hard for him to be in touch with his true feelings?” — Jordan [27:53]

Memorable Quotes

• "Am I basically an accidental rapist?" — Jordan, echoing the listener’s fears about being unconsciously coercive [21:10]
• “I never tried to coerce her into anything, but she seems to have felt that I did.” — Letter-writer [15:59, paraphrased by Jordan]
• "The real question in his letter is ... how do I feel, and why is it really hard for me sometimes to articulate that?" — Gabriel [27:59]

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3. Ambition vs. Legal Limits: International Student’s Entrepreneurial Roadblock

[32:09 - 44:23]

Letter Summary

A 19-year-old Swiss student in the UK, studying music and English, finally feels inspired to start a business after years of drifting. However, UK visa regulations prohibit students from entrepreneurial activities, and he's terrified this will kill his newfound momentum.

Key Insights

• Worry Only About What You Control:
  • Jordan urges the student not to invent problems prematurely—just thinking about ideas isn’t a violation; focus on actionable steps.
  • “Be very disciplined about what you worry about.” — Jordan [37:14]
• Test Ideas with Minimal Risk:
  • You can explore and test hypotheses before formalizing a business.
• Don’t Drop Out Too Soon:
  • Only leave your studies if you hit real, not imagined, constraints.
  • “Don’t quit your day job or the thing that you are doing to pay the bills. Until that is the absolute bottleneck.” — Jordan [42:34]
• Passion vs. Pattern:
  • Gabe questions whether this fluctuation in interests is a symptom of ongoing restlessness.
  • "The real question...is how do I really commit to something?" — Gabriel [40:28]

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4. Generational Divide—or Just a Workplace Problem?

[45:48 - 64:41]

Letter Summary

A man worries his younger girlfriend’s “millennial speech patterns” and sarcastic tone alienate her older (Gen X) boss, particularly in communications about boundaries like not answering work email on weekends.

Key Insights

• Not Just a Generational Thing:
  • Jordan and Gabe note her communication is more about workplace attitude and professionalism than generational difference.
  • “This is not a Gen X millennial divide. This is a disrespectful kind of interaction.” — Jordan [51:40]
• Workplace Expectations–Reality Check:
  • Checking weekend emails, especially in client service roles, is standard in many industries; failing to do so can tank a career.
  • “Being combative and abrasive like this, it’s the kind of thing that can tank your career candidly, or at least keep you stuck.” — Jordan [59:28]
• Effective Communication:
  • Framing boundaries positively and proactively leads to more career success.
  • “There’s a much smarter way to say this and a more helpful one...It’s simple.” — Gabriel [57:39]
• Constructive Feedback in Relationships:
  • They advise the writer to approach his girlfriend with curiosity and empathy, referencing specific behaviors and inviting her to reflect rather than imposing criticism.

Memorable Quotes

• “If you don’t feel you’re getting paid enough to do certain work...Why aren’t you doing the work, showing your boss how valuable you are, using that to secure the salary you would want?” — Gabriel [60:54]
• "If your girlfriend makes some adjustments and starts to see better results, I really think she’s going to thank you for it—maybe not right away, but eventually." — Jordan [64:42]

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5. Navigating Social Awkwardness After Early Retirement

[70:41 - 78:57]

Letter Summary

A woman in the Midwest has retired in her late 40s thanks to successful business and investments, but faces discomfort and even suspicion from others who are baffled by her early financial freedom.

Key Insights

• Cultural Context:
  • Jordan, from Michigan, recognizes the “company man” ethos of the Midwest, where entrepreneurship and financial independence can seem alien.
  • “Anyone who does it differently, it’s just confusing.” — Jordan [72:03]
• Gender Factor:
  • They suggest being a woman may exacerbate suspicion or disbelief about financial success.
• Don’t Let Others’ Insecurity Define You:
  • Reactions are more about others’ insecurity or lack of imagination than about you.
  • “So what if people are judgy or have questions or don’t know what to say? You’re killing it.” — Jordan [74:43]
• Own Your Story—or Don’t Explain:
  • Use humor, be proud, and only explain if you want to; you owe no one an apology for your success.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the complexity of blame and consent in relationships:
  • "I'm not letting you off the hook either...I'm just saying, let's be totally accurate here." — Jordan [25:24]
• On entrepreneurial anxiety:
  • “You're 19, isn't the name of the game plan?” — Jordan [39:10]
• On self-sabotaging career attitudes:
  • “You can just tell that's a guy that never had his ass properly kicked.” — Jordan [61:56]
• On early retirement and outside perceptions:
  • “You should be proud of it. Congrats my friend. Enjoy your life.” — Jordan [78:43]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 400th Episode Reflections: [06:04–13:55]
• Main Letter: Consent & Divorce: [14:03–29:25]
• Uni Student & Visa Worry: [32:09–44:23]
• Millennial-Tone at Work: [45:48–64:41]
• Early Retirement Social Dilemma: [70:41–78:57]

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Tone and Style

Candid, compassionate, and at times irreverent—Jordan and Gabriel blend honest life advice with humor and sharp social observations. They are direct in challenging poor patterns but equally generous in holding space for the messy, ambiguous parts of life.

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Further Resources

• Recommended Product: [70:51] — Star Projector (Galaxy Light) — for mood/ambience at home.
• Upcoming Highlight: [80:24] — Next episode with Yuval Noah Harari on AI and society.
• Newsletter & Subreddit: [45:23], [70:29] — For community discussion and extra show content.

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Closing

As always, Jordan and Gabriel remind listeners that their inbox is open for letters, and every email is confidential and welcome. Listeners are invited to build their own networks and stay connected with the show's resources.

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For more detailed breakdown or a specific timestamp highlight, please refer to the above segments. All major advice is grounded in empathy, practicality, and the reality-check needed to move forward in complex situations.

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[Feedback Friday episodes feature listener letters and practical, real talk advice. Skip all intro/outro and ad sections for core content only.]

Transcript

[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer, the dude helping me stay in the saddle as we fight these life battles. Live from the Big Apple, Gabriel Mizrahi. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from cold case homicide investigators, hostage negotiators, gold smugglers and rocket scientists. This week we had Dr. Lane Norton, Ph.D. in nutritional sciences, we talk protein, diet soda, nutrition myths, the truth about seed oils, and more. I also interviewed UBA Butler, author, filmmaker, social media provocateur. Uba. If you don't know, he basically creates stunts that reveal larger truths about society. He's created a fake restaurant, gone undercover at an Amazon warehouse, and more. Fascinating. Guys. Got a new project in the works that is top secret. We're looking forward to that as well. We also had a skeptical Sunday last Sunday on Onlyfans. On Fridays, though, we share stories, take listener letters, play obnoxious sound bites, and generally wander into the dark thicket of your gnarled and gnarly life conundrum. So, Gabe, I ran into a dude with a sign this morning. You know that guy?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Who is this?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, dude with a sign. It's a character essentially created by a guy named Seth Phillips. It's brilliant, right? He got famous for standing around random places in New York holding up cardboard signs with funny messages. It's stuff people think but don't say out loud. Like there'll be a sign that just says stop replying all to come wide emails or something like that. Or Seinfeld is way better than friends stuff. Just stuff like that aren't like hot.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Takes, but kind of funny.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like maybe a Facebook status, but instead it's on a old box lid. And so it's brilliant because he needs like a Sharpie and box lids.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's insane that he's built a successful brand on that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's probably a multi million or at least seven feet close to it brand. And he needs a Sharpie and box lids in himself. And when you look at the photos, you get the impression that he's standing there all day getting reactions. No, he stands there, someone takes a picture, and he's like, all right, I'm done with my work for the whole day. And then, like, goes. And I don't know, has a beer or something.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Wow. What a life.

[Jordan Harbinger]

He. It blew up. It used to be part of Fuck Jerry. Oh, yeah, yeah. Pardon me for cursing, but that's the name of the company. It blew up. He has millions of followers, and now he's. He's basically a meme himself.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Got it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It was funny watching him do it. He was doing some sort of, like, corporate thing, but people on the street were like, oh. And he would like, can I hug you? I'm like, oh. He's an actual real celebrity in New York.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So what was the sign today?

[Jordan Harbinger]

You know what? It didn't make sense to me because I think it was a sp. Sponsored gig.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oh, okay.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So it was like, schooners is delicious. It's like a beer or something. Or at a place you could tell he was being managed by somebody that he was mildly annoyed by. I just blew it for him. But whatever. It looked like he was mildly annoyed by whatever guy was managing him. And there was a guy taking pictures, and it was probably just like, some sponsored thing where he probably makes money. Where, like, a restaurant says, stand in front of our restaurant and then take a picture. Like, this place has good dumplings. And then it's like, all right, gotta pay the bills.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's that guy's business model. That's wild.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. I can't really throw shade on somebody for being like, eat these dumplings. When I'm like, hey, buy this $3,000 mattress.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

No.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So another thing that was interesting, he had three pieces of cardboard. The guy who was doing the photo shoot basically took them and put them behind the table. And due to the sign, Seth, he grabbed them and took them with him, and he basically, like, hauled ass out of there. And I was like, why do you take those? That's weird.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Like, he doesn't want people to know what the collabs are, maybe.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Or he doesn't want to give away what he's promoting. Or maybe he doesn't want people to keep them and then auction them off. Like, hey, this is one of the dude with the sign signs.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Maybe.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Although at that point, it's, like, cool. I don't know. Maybe he sees himself getting really, really big, and he's like, one day I'm going to auction off these things and give the money to charity or keep it, whatever.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Or maybe he just didn't want to litter. Maybe he's just being considerate.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Maybe he just doesn't want to litter.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So, Jordan, before we dive in, I'm not sure if you noticed this is our 400th Feedback Friday episode.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I did notice that, and I was going to say, wow. Happy 400th episode, everyone. Hello, Producer Jason here. If you'd like to skip Jordan and Gabe's anniversary celebrations and move swiftly to the first question, you can do so by skipping to 12 minutes and 20 seconds, give or take. If you heard an advert at the top of the show. But of course, we'd love you to stick around and celebrate with us. Did somebody mention cake? Enjoy the show, everyone. What a milestone.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Huge milestone. I should actually say your 400th feedback Friday. I came on board. I just looked this up before we recorded I came on board feedback Friday, 1 19. And that was on May 29, 2020.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, my God. That sounds not long enough ago, doesn't it?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I don't know. I have no sense of time. The last five years are kind of a blur.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So we've done 280 some odd feedback from together.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

280, 281. Dues Cruises.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow. Didn't capsize once? No.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Debatable.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, maybe a couple times. But mostly we've kept this baby afloat. Man, that is wild. So that was five and a half years ago.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Five and a half years. It has been.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So much has happened. The show has evolved so much since then. It's almost hard to wrap my head around. I think back then, Feedback Friday was producer Jason would read the letter and I would give my, like, off the cuff, not researched, not thought about, no expert commentary answer.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, it's really been fun to develop this whole format. I was actually thinking before we recorded about where I was when we started. I don't know if I've ever told this story fully. I actually don't even know if, you know what was going on in my life when you invited me onto the show. But basically, it was a month or two into the pandemic. Yeah, it was March or April 2020.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Sounds about right.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I had a movie. My first movie was going into production. It was going to be. You remember this part? I think it was going to be, like, a very big movie. And it was my first big break.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, I remember this.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I was literally 24 hours away from flying to Montreal. This movie, I think, had already been in prep for two or three weeks. So they were already. They had offices and the movie was already kind of getting off the ground. And I had sublet my apartment to my friend Michael for two months because I was like, oh, I'm going to be in Canada making this movie. And he needed a place to stay, so he took my apartment. Apartment. I stayed with my mom for a couple days. And then we got the call saying, yeah, Covid is a thing, and they're shutting the movie down. Heartbreaking.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That was like a funeral, right? I mean, that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It was pretty brutal. And then shortly after that, the actor dropped out of the project, and that project floundered for a while. It's taken a long time to get it back on track. But in that time, Jason left the show and you needed a producer to come on board. And I was like, yeah, I really actually need a job. This is amazing.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Jason somehow also got a killer offer. It was like, start your own studio. And work on all these big projects. And he was like, hey, dude, I don't want to leave you in the lurch. Can you, like, triple my income to match this other. And I was like, no, you should do that. That's, like, one way more in alignment with what you want to do. And two, like, I can't afford to do that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Well, I thank him every day because he opened up this beautiful spot. And I. But I did not know that it would turn into this collaboration that it's turned into, you know, and also in my mind, dude, back then, I was like, Covid, two, three months tops, and then this will blow over.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Flatten the curve, y'. All.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, exactly. I don't think flatten the curve was even, like, a phrase. Yeah, it was like. I just thought it was going to be like bird flu. Like, remember, bird flu keeps barely. Barely. It's, like, never became a thing. I'm like, this is overblown. My movie's going to get right back on track. I'll just do this for a few months and pay the bills and hang out with my friend, and it'll be cool. And then the pandemic went on for quite a while, and the movie did not get right back on track. And I would say it took us six months to a year to kind of find our real groove. And then the show really just started to build from there. And I gotta say, man, when I think about the handful of things that changed my life, getting to do the show with you was one of them. And I never thought that podcasting would be part of my career in a real way. I never podcasted before, and now I love it as much or probably more than a lot of filmmaking.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow. Congrats on being another white guy with a podcast.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I'm pouring out with my heart here, and you're making fun of me for pot calling the kettle white. I'm just saying. But I gotta say, when I think about this chapter, it kind of reminds me of a lot of the Feedback Friday themes that we talk about. And one of them is, like, how amazing it is sometimes when you just say yes to something without knowing where it's going to go, because I couldn't actually say no because I really needed a job at the time. But also, I did not think that this would open up a whole new path for me, and it's kind of changed my life and opened my world in all these ways. Also, I remember in the first two weeks of coming on the show with you, I had never really been behind A microphone. And we got an email from some. Well, I got an email to the Feedback Friday inbox from someone saying, hey, you need to get rid of Gabe, because he does not know what he's doing. And this person was not wrong. And I actually listened to a couple minutes of that first episode. I was like, my God, dude. Like, speak up. Get better equipment.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I just think no one stays bad at something for a long time when they're working with an expert on that thing.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And this is actually what I was getting at.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I see.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It's such a beautiful thing to be able to practice and develop and make mistakes with somebody who is giving you space to develop. And I don't know if you consciously did that or if that's just kind of part. Of course, it was such a gift to be able to learn how to do this and to have your patience in your space, which, you know, is really hard to find without making the stakes super high.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I figured the listeners, except for that one person apparently, are not going to go, oh, this person tried a new thing that they've never done before to replace someone else. They didn't hit home runs the first day. Fire them. Like, that's an unreasonable take. It's different if someone expresses zero talent for getting something done. Like, if they're unable to do the most basic tasks. But, like, staying unlike is not intuitive. Most people talk in the direction of the person. They don't talk in the direction of an inanimate object while looking at the other person. And being able to go off of notes and improvise things is like a learned skill. It's different if someone's voice sounds like nails on a chalkboard. That's different. That's hard to change, especially if they don't know that. And then you got to tell them that and they don't believe you. Like, that's a person you don't want to work with. But if somebody just needs mic technique. Okay. You need a week.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

To get it down.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

To be fair, I think I obviously needed the mic technique stuff, like, the more technical stuff, but I also just needed time to, like, get comfortable talking and being with you in this new. Yeah. And also our relationship has grown since then, and so we were still kind of finding each other. But the other thing that I was thinking about is, for so many years, Jordan, I thought of myself as, like, a screenwriter. And if I am not making a living and if I'm not achieving things only as a screenwriter, then I'm not succeeding. And actually, I don't know how I'm going to feel about myself if I build my career on anything else but this. And then this happened, and it was like. It started as just, like, a nice little gift, and then it kind of became something closer to the other half of my career, and now it's really, in a way, bigger than the other stuff. And I'm just kind of marveling at how sometimes when you think of yourself as only one kind of person, it can close you off from being a number of people, and that can be so much more rewarding and so much more interesting. And that was really the first time I learned that lesson. So, yeah. Feedback Friday, 400 is just a little opportunity for me to reflect on that. And you inviting me into the show was just one of the best things to ever happen to me, and it means the world to me, and I love doing this project. And thank you for having faith.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm looking forward to you making a movie sometime. But I'm also really proud of what we built here. I truly had no idea how the partnership would go when you came on board. I didn't think the show would evolve as much as it did. Obviously. That's been a really cool experience for me as well. Just to see how something develops with a collaborator and kind of takes on a life of its own. And our listeners are also a huge part of that. Of course. Every letter you guys send, you know, except for the one where they told me to get rid of your. And you opened it because you were the one checking that inbox. Sorry about that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

No, I'm. It's kind of an amazing thing. Like, I'm glad I got that email.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I wonder if that person still listens.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And I have no idea. That person is over there cringing like.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, I told you to get rid of it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Her opinion has not changed.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Every joke you guys make, every letter you guys send, the bits just keep building. The. The themes, the questions we're all grappling with just. They just get clearer. The show gets richer and richer. So thank you all for that. Yeah, man. Happy 400th. What a ride. I do wonder where the dues cruise will be at 500. That's always.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That is insane to think about.

[Jordan Harbinger]

As always. We got some fun ones. We got some doozies. Let's dive in. Gabe, what is the first thing out of the mailbag?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hello, Jordan and Gabe. While going through my divorce from my wife, I asked her, was I really that bad?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, don't do that. Don't ever. By the way, don't Ever. I'm not divorced, but don't ever do that. I'm pretty sure that's not a good idea.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

She went on about how I never forgave her for things and made her miserable, which is somewhat fair. While most days were okay, there were times I would just shut down and be unable to fully function.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Mmm, that's tough. Well, glad you see that clearly now.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I then said something along the lines of, you told me that in past relationships you had ex boyfriends take advantage of you against your will or when you were intoxicated. And I never did that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow, that's intense. So basically, he was like, yeah, I wasn't perfect, but at least I never assaulted you.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Right?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Damn.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

As you can tell, I was grasping at straws and trying however I could to inject some life into our relationship. That comparison was a desperate one, and in hindsight, I shouldn't have brought it up. She responded that I had taken advantage of her. When I asked her how, she said something like, when you attempted to have sex with me and I turned you down, you would get upset, so I felt I had to do it against my will.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Okay, well, let's see where this goes.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That floored me, as it was somewhat true, but something I never considered. Toward the end of our marriage, sex wasn't a priority to her, and it rarely happened when I tried to initiate. There were times, but not always, when after a rejection, I would say something like, fine, whatever, and go about my business. Sometimes she would come back later and initiate. Sometimes she would say, fine, let's do it, and we would. And sometimes when I would touch her thigh sitting next to her, or when I made a comment while she was getting dressed, she would just tell me I was disgusting and that all I wanted was sex. That was pretty common.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, man, this is tough. So she's straight up shaming him for his desires. Not sure what to make of this yet, but it sounds like this part of your marriage was fraught, to say the least. There's just a huge misalignment here.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

To be clear, I never used this as a tactic. It was a product of genuine frustration. I've tried to look inward and see my actions clearly to the best of my ability. And I never tried to coerce her into anything, but she seems to have felt that I did. Then, while I was thinking about consent, both in marriage and in general, I remembered a couple of instances where I was asleep and woke up to her on top of me, trying to figure out where I was and what was going on. As A young man. I dreamed of that, but when it happened, it felt strange and wrong. I did not see that plot twist, bro. Granted, once awake, I finished the job, but it wasn't the same as when we both consciously agreed to the activity. It feels strange writing this, as I'm not sure how I felt then and am not sure how I feel now. As a man, what should I feel about that situation? Signed, navigating this weird climate when I'm feeling Alexithymic.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's funny how he phrased that. Once awake, I finished the job. Yeah, like, I do not consider. Okay, fine, now that we're here.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But still also has some complicated feelings about it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

This is. Yes, that's normal, by the way. Well, so. What a story. Alexithymic. I feel like we talked about that a while ago.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It's like when you struggle to recognize or describe your emotions.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But it's interesting. In one way, he's extremely clear about his experience and where he stands. Like he said, I've looked inward, I've tried to see myself clearly. I never tried to coerce her into anything. But then in this other area, he doesn't know how to feel about what happened. I do wonder if that's part of what he struggled with by his own admission.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, there were times I would just shut down and be unable to fully function.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Exactly. You know, I get the sense that our friend here isn't always in touch with his feelings or clear about what they mean, and that that theme is kind of in the background of the whole story.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But to be fair, we are about to wade into territory that is extremely ambiguous. I also don't quite know what to make of all this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, and that's what makes his story so interest and also so confusing for me.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

For me as well. They both feel like they were taken advantage of, but in very different ways.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So he's saying I never consciously tried to manipulate her into having sex with me. That was never my intention anyway. I was just frustrated in expressing that. I mean, I can relate. But she would see him get upset, and that would stir up some response in her, which we don't fully know. Distress, obligation, guilt, resentment, discomfort, whatever. We can only speculate. But I can, you know, I can sort of imagine. And then she would do something with that. Sometimes she would ignore him. Sometimes she'd reject him, then just come back later. Sometimes she'd cave in the moment. Sometimes she would. It sounds like reject him outright, and it sounds like kind of be really insulting about it and then shame him. Yeah, but when they did have sex, her experience of that is you would get upset, so I felt I had to do it. Thus I had sex with you against my will.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Right. And so you did take advantage of me, just like my old partners did, which is a very intense thing to hear. If you did not think that you were doing that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right. I don't mean to repeat myself, but this is extremely complicated. When a woman says, I felt pressured, I felt manipulated, there's clearly something important going on. And it's hard for our friend here, for anyone really to say, well, you might have felt that way, but that's not what actually happened. I never forced you to do anything. It's painful and invalidating to, you know, like, argue with her experience around something as loaded as consent. But what happened between them? Based on the information that he's given us, of course, what happened between them is in a very different category from, say, a husband who holds his wife down in the bed and forces her to have sex with him, or even a husband who consciously manipulates and guilt trips his wife into having sex when she doesn't want to. I am not saying their dynamic was entirely fair or healthy or whatever. I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. I'm not blaming victim here. Whatever. I know people are getting upset, but I. I do find her read on their sex life. You know, when I turned you down, you would get upset, so I felt I had to do it against my will. I just. I find that to be a very simplistic summary of how these exchanges would go.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, it is skating on the surface of what must be a much more complex process. Right.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Look, if she had said, when you would get upset that I didn't want to have sex, that was really hard for me. It made me feel bad, it made me feel guilty, it made me feel pressured. Whether you intended that or not, whatever feeling, you know, whatever feelings came up with her, and often I had sex with you even though I didn't want to. And that's left me with some really tough feelings. And it feels similar to what I went through with my past boyfriend, but.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That is a very different understanding of this situation. Yeah, I take your point.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Then I would say, if that were the case, I would say, okay, she's bringing up fair points. She's making room for her experience and your experience. There's an important conversation to be had here about who's responsible for this and to what extent. Yeah, but to say, oh, you basically assaulted me, or you did something adjacent to that by getting frustrated with Me, I find that very simplistic.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Rather conveniently so, I would say. And kind of, I mean, look, we don't have her side of the story. He's summarizing, blah, blah, blah. We all know that we only have his side of the story to go on. But it does seem a little bit uncurious on her part to just pin this on him and say he made her have sex with him. End of story.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. It's ultimately very unfair to our friend here who's then left to wonder, am I basically an accidental rapist?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Am I in the same category of all these other men who really did take advantage of my wife?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I just want to pause here again and acknowledge that this is kind of hard to talk about.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It is right.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

What you're doing here, which I really appreciate, Jordan, is you're saying, hang on, there's more nuance here. Right. Which even though we do not have all the information, and by the way, I'm sure if we talked to her, she would have a lot to say about their dynamic. And who knows, maybe that would complicate the picture even further. But even without that information, I think we can still be pretty confident that there is this nuance because there always is. But it's hard to say. I want to make room for the fact that you husband communicated some difficult things to your wife and behaved in a way that might have made sex very fraught for her. And I also want to make room for the fact that you wife also had some agency in the way that you interpreted those words and behavior and then acted on them. It's hard to say that without sounding like you are doing what you said, which is invalidating or minimizing her experience, when in fact, I think you appreciating all of that is actually doing the opposite.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes, thanks for laying it out that way because that's exactly my intention. But I know there are people who hear stuff like this who are probably firing up their keyboards right now by.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

The person who said fire, Gabe.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, especially look, coming from a man or two men, and their knee jerk response is going to be, how dare you question a victim. But I also don't think it's controversial to say, well, hang on a minute, your husband didn't hold you down and force himself on you. He didn't berate you, he didn't attack you. If he had, this would be a totally different story. What I'm hearing is that he had a challenging and maybe probably unproductive way of communicating his feelings. It sounds like you two were just not compatible on this dimension of sex and intimacy in the first place. And you responded to his feelings in a certain way, which sometimes meant deciding to have sex with him. If he can take accountability for the way he behaved when you didn't want to have sex, isn't it only fair for to ask you to take accountability for how you behaved in response?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, that's a really nice way to put it. I also just want to say, though, I think what's also complicated, complicated about the story is we're hearing about a person who probably has some trauma, possibly a lot of trauma. I'm talking about his wife and who probably has some, let's just say, tricky templates with her partners. I say this because she apparently had ex boyfriends who, it sounds like, assaulted her, which is heartbreaking if that's what happened. It also sounds like that happened sometimes when she was intoxicated, which kind of adds another variable into the mix and also raises some questions. Again, we do not know her side of the story, but how often was she intoxicated? Why was she intoxicated? What exactly went down with those boyfriends? More importantly, what meaning has she made of those interactions since then? So what I'm getting at is I agree with everything you're saying, Jordan. I also understand that the idea of agency, of really having a say in what you do and having enough of a handle on yourself to read a situation clearly, to be able to say, yes, I want to have sex with you, or no, I don't want to have sex with you, and I'm sorry if that makes you angry. The agency to even pick healthy and safe partners in the first place, all of that gets more complicated when there's trauma in the picture. Again, we do not know what happened to her in the past, but there's a high likelihood that something did. Because look at her history and look at how she feels about these ex partners. So I just say that because if we don't acknowledge that, then I think we might be at risk of being a little overly simplistic too.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No, I totally hear that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Maybe our job is to hold these two contradictory ideas at the same time. That his wife doesn't feel she has full agency in the way that she relates to her partners, especially sexually, and that she is partly responsible for how they related to each other sexually in their marriage.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Bingo. That's exactly right. And so the upshot of all this is, for me, you might have some important stuff to look at after this marriage. How you manage your feelings, how you understand your needs, how you communicated with your wife, how that created a difficult and confusing dynamic with her, probably in a number of ways. And you're clearly already doing that, and I commend you for that. I would keep going. And I just do not fully buy into the narrative that you took advantage of her. I think this was a co production between the two of you, and the real work of relationships is taking a real interest in that co production and parsing out the responsibility of the two parties in a way that's accurate and fair. I'm not letting you off the hook either, Brian. I don't get the sense that you're letting yourself off the hook either. I'm just saying. Let's be totally accurate here.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

We still have not talked about the huge plot twist here.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is that she might have taken advantage of him.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Actually, it is pretty fascinating.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So, okay, now that we've been all fair and evolved, do I have permission to say, oh, okay, so you felt you didn't have a choice when it came to having sex with your husband, but meanwhile, you were literally having sex with him in his sleep. Did you ask for consent then? Come on, man.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It is a very interesting part of the story. What's even more fascinating, though, is that he now knows it didn't feel right to him. But he also says he doesn't know how to feel. And his question, by the way, is not just, how should I feel about this? But how should I feel as a man?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Well, I think that speaks to how confusing certain sexual stuff can be for men, especially when it comes to consent, because he probably doesn't feel totally secure going, yeah, I didn't like that. That was kind of violating or whatever. Presumably because it might be embarrassing or emasculating to say that as a guy.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. Or as a guy, he thinks, no, that should be awesome. I should enjoy that, full stop. And like, he said, he probably would have found this idea exciting when he was younger, but then the reality was very different. And so that's confusing.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You know? Sorry, I'm having a giggle because it reminds me of. What's that movie where Jennifer Aniston and Jason Bateman, she's like a dentist, and he works in her office and she's sexually harassing him.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oh, is that Horrible Bosses?

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's Horrible Bosses, yeah. And the joke is like, dude, Jennifer Aniston's sexually harassing you. That's awesome.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It's not harassment, but it's a joke. But it is.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But it is. It's like really uncomfortable. And Jason Bateman is really good at being, like, the most awkward human beings alive.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. So, yeah, you swap the genders. And it gets weird, Right? Complicated. It does, right?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. But if Jason Bateman were a dentist harassing Jennifer Aniston, we'd be watching it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

We know he's a guy. Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So I'm really struck by the fact that they both feel sexually taken advantage of or manipulated or coerced, but in very different ways.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. I mean, the picture I'm getting is that they were both creating situations where they were engaging with each other in ways that were very confusing and upsetting, and they were not communicating openly about it. At any point in their marriage, she could have said, hey, when you get upset, when I turn you down, that makes me feel like I have to have sex with you. And at any point, he could have said, I'm not sure how I feel about you initiating sex while I'm asleep. I actually don't. No. If I really like it, it feels strange. It feels wrong.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But that's hard to do if you don't actually know how you feel about something.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Of course. Or if you don't even think that you have the right to feel a certain way. So I would say that's also part of his job, to figure out why it's hard for him to know how to feel about some really important things in his life. Obviously, talking to a therapist can be very helpful. It sounds like he might need to process some of these events, but really the bigger project is, how do I feel? And why is it really hard for me sometimes to articulate that, to figure.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Out what in his past or his personality makes it hard for him to be in touch with his true feelings, to speak up about what bothers him.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. To make more room for all of these different reactions. This is the real question in his letter, in my view, and it's such a fundamental question. It goes beyond what played out with his wife, but I suspect that it was also at the root of most of what played out with her. Because if you struggle to understand yourself, I mean, that that affects everything in a relationship.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think we'd also have to point out that their respective dissociations, their respective struggles to feel their feelings and communicate, those probably fit together like puzzle pieces, and that must have contributed to this whole consent debacle. So. What a story, man. There's so much to talk about. I'm sure we could go on for a long time, but that's kind of the long and short of it for me. I'm sorry that your marriage was so challenging. I do hope there were some bright spots too. But all of this is an opportunity to look at these parts of yourself and grow and just do things differently in the future. And good luck. And now we're going to wake you up in the middle of the night with some explicitly consensual deals and discounts on the fine products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Bioptimizers. It's Black Friday savings season. This is huge. You know the bioptimizers products we talk about here on the show? The ones that are science backed and lab tested like Magnesium Breakthrough for sleep support and Mass Zymes for digestive support. From November 23rd to December 3rd you get 25% off. That's the once in a year sale that you don't want to miss. Sure, you can always get 15% off with code Jordan. But if you want the biggest savings and gifts, load up your cart now and check out between November 23rd and December 3rd to lock in an even bigger discount of 25% off. Plus, this part is exclusive to my audience only at buyoptimizers.com jorphdan you'll not only get an amazing discount, but also free gifts with select purchases. Go right now to buyoptimizers.com Jordan, use code jordan and grab your favorites before this deal disappears. After December 3, it is gone. Don't miss it. This episode is also sponsored by BetterHelp. This time of year can feel a bit heavy. I've been more intentional about reaching out lately. Texting friends I haven't talked to in a while. I am always glad that I did. Therapy is kind of the same thing. Same way you think about it. You put it off. And then when you're finally doing it, you wonder what took you so darn long. BetterHelp makes that first step easier. You fill out a short questionnaire. They match you with a licensed therapist who fits what you need. They've been doing this for over a decade. More than 30,000 therapists. Over 5 million people helped. And if the match isn't quite right, you switch anytime. No weird breakup conversation required. I use BetterHelp because it works. This time of year. It's easy to go inward. You don't have to do it alone. Take that first step this month.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

Is sponsored in part by Airbnb. I've been so burned out cranking out content lately that all I can think about is travel. There's just something about stepping out of your routine that hits the reset button like nothing else. I got a trip to Patagonia coming up, which I'm ridiculously excited about. It's that magic of meeting new people, trying foods you can't pronounce, exploring new cities. That's really what travel's about, frankly. Not the checklist or the perfect itinerary, but the experiences and connections you make along the way. Those moments end up being worth more than anything you buy. Which got me thinking. While you're off exploring, your home is just sitting there empty. Why not host it on Airbnb while you're away? If you ever considered hosting but were worried maybe it'd be too much to manage, Airbnb's Co Host Network can help. With Airbnb's Co Host Network, you can hire a local co host to manage everything from creating your listing and messaging guests to on site support and even design and styling. So while you're away, you can rest easy knowing your home is in good hands and your guests are happy. It's a smart way to turn your space into a source of additional income without adding to your plate. If you've ever thought about hosting but you want a little help, find a co [e-mail] host thank you so much for listening and supporting the show. Your support of our advertisers keeps the lights on around here, keeps Gabe caffeinated and on mike. To learn more and get links to all the discounts you hear on the show and support the podcast in the process, go to jordanharbinger.com deals Please consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to Feedback Friday. All right, next up Dear Jordan and.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Gabe, I'm a 19 year old from Switzerland, currently studying music and English at a university in the uk. For the past five years I've had no idea what I want to do with my life. I've always known that I wanted to avoid the horror of working a 9 to 5 until I'm 65 and then retiring and knowing me subsequently becoming very bored. What I haven't known is what I want to do. Instead. I've ping ponged between ambitions like writing, filmmaking and music, hence my current program, but I never committed to pursuing any of them properly. Instead, I spent my teens procrastinating and making grand plans with zero follow through. This might sound like a typical way to spend your teenage years, but for me it was torture. I spent five years hating myself for never taking that crucial first step towards something bigger.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I know the feeling. I think a lot of people do. But honestly, part of growing up is wrestling with exactly this kind of thing. I would not beat yourself up too much. You're learning.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Recently though, I had a stroke of inspiration. I've been reading Noah Kagan's Million Dollar Weekend and it convinced me that what I actually want is to start a moderately sized business doing something I enjoy. Something that makes enough money and grants me the freedom to invest in creative projects without financial constraints or the pressure of making a living from them. This revelation has been absolutely gripping. I'm spending hours every day working on business ideas, reaching out to people to understand their problems, and finding little motivation for much else, including my studies, unfortunately.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's exciting. You sound lit up about this. I. I love it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

However, I've hit a major roadblock. The UK student visa I'm on explicitly prohibits me from being self employed or even, as they put it, engaging in business activity. I've looked deeper into the visa restrictions and they're clear no starting a business. The university's International Student office basically confirmed that I would be risking my entire education if I got caught running one. I feel absolutely devastated. Just when I finally found something that genuinely excites me and gives me direction, I'm legally prohibited from pursuing it. The thought of going back to that limbo of procrastination and self hatred is genuinely terrifying. Part of me wonders if I should transfer back to Switzerland or another EU country where I'd have more freedom to pursue business ventures while studying. But my parents have invested a significant amount in sending me here and I'd hate to disappoint them by essentially throwing that away at the same time. Is it really worth spending two years going through the motions on something I feel little passion for, only to have them spend even more money on my final year, force myself through a degree I'll never use, and then pursue what I could be doing right now? Do I put this newfound passion on hold for the next two years until I graduate and could potentially get a different visa status? What if this momentum I finally found completely evaporates and I find it infinitely harder to get motivated about starting a business after graduation? Should I be patient and focus on my studies Knowing I can pursue business later? Or is there a way to channel this energy productively within my current limitations? Signed a uni student humbly asking how to be hungry without getting kicked out of the country.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Interesting. So there are actually two or three things going on here. Let's try to separate them out. First off, like I said, super exciting that you found something you're genuinely passionate about. I know that feeling well. I know how awesome it is to find something you deeply care about, something you can spend hours and hours doing to the point that everything else falls away. For me, that was podcasting. It's just. It's a sign you're on the right path. And if you can execute, it'll probably lead you to some really exciting stuff. Honestly, not legal advice, but I wouldn't worry about this visa thing right now. You're still in the research phase. You haven't even settled on an idea yet. It could take months, a year or two or more before you hit on an idea that's actually workable, that can make money. You're just talking to people and reading and brainstorming. Come on, you're a student, I promise you. Again, not legal advice. No UK immigration official is going to knock on your dorm room door like, hey, we heard you were asking people about their pain points at work, and we saw you've been using ChatGPT to find B2B business models. You're going to have to come with us. This thing about not running a business on your student visa, I am 99% sure that only kicks in if your name is on some founding documents for a company, or you open a business bank account, or you launch a website with your name on it and it's got an E Commerce shopping cart generating revenue. Even then, well, they'd still have to catch you, which means they'd have to be keeping a close eye on you, which they probably aren't. And anyway, I'm going to go ahead and guess the Metropolitan Police in Scotland Yard have bigger fish to fry. Okay. There are people who are lying about, entirely lying about being enrolled in a university to work illegally.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

People overstaying their visas. Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

People engaging in literal, organized crimes. Yeah.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Those are the people they're going after. Right.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So my take is this is not a problem yet. It'll probably never be a problem. And if it did become a real problem, it's just a good problem to have. And frankly, there are ways to deal with that, too. Like don't incorporate until you graduate, or get a different visa, or put the company in your business partner's name, or if the company's really that promising and crushing it, you drop out of school and you move to a different country and run the thing. But you have no idea if any of that's going to come to pass.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Right.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So my advice here is actually even broader. It's something you're going to have to learn if you want to be an entrepreneur. Be very disciplined about what you worry about. There will be no shortage of obstacles in building a new company. The whole journey is obstacles. You don't need to invent new ones or worry about ones that haven't come to pass yet. Speaking of Noah Kagan, he's big on only focusing on things you can control. That's one of the biggest bits of advice that he's talked about on my show before, many times. Don't project yourself so far in the future. And then you find problems there that stop you from even trying. It just doesn't make sense.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

An interesting thing. I keep learning over and over again the things you think are going to be problems that usually never happen and the things that you can't even anticipate, those are the things that become problems.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes. Right now you're essentially worrying about overpopulation on Mars when you should be worrying about what idea you're going to have to sell to people in the first place. So what I would do is stay where you are, keep doing your homework, keep talking to potential customers, keep being curious and focus on finding concrete problems you can actually solve. Specific needs you can meet until you land on an idea that you think you can reasonably pull off and then keep taking baby steps towards that. And by the way, if you do hit on an idea before you graduate, building a minimum viable product, informally offering a product or service to people to just test the waters, especially if you aren't even charging for it at first, I still think that wouldn't violate the terms of your visa. If anyone's like, hey, what's that thing you're doing while you're still a student? You can say it's a side project, something I'm testing and playing with. There's no company, there's no revenue. I'm just making stuff again. I could just almost guarantee you no one's going to care.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, super solid advice, Jordan. I'm just thinking about where she started this letter, which was. I've ping ponged among all these different things. I never committed to any of them. I procrastinate. I made this grand plans with zero follow through. She has a Lot of regret and a lot of self loathing around that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I don't know, you're 19 isn't the name of the game plan.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

She's ahead of the curve if she's already working on that pattern. But now she's landed on this idea to start a medium sized business that makes her enough money to casually invest in creative projects without worrying about making a living from them. So it is a beautiful goal. I am all for it. I would love to see you do this. But let's also remember that this is not a business yet. This is still just a broad ambition. It's a general direction, which is great. This is how it starts. But I would just encourage you to keep an eye on the tendency to get distracted by the next shiny thing, if that's what's happening here, especially when that thing is very abstract.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. So what you're getting at is, is this desire to start a company just one more thing she's ping ponging to?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It's just a question. You know, back when I was working in consulting, I came up with two or three business ideas that I got excited about. One of them was like this corporate blog thing. Another one was an ad tech project. Another one was I wanted to develop software for restaurants. And I did what she did. I interviewed business owners and restaurant managers and I tried to apply what I knew how to do, which at the time was very little. I partnered with a couple guys I worked with back then. And then, you know, we looked into these things and over time I realized that the businesses were not feasible or I didn't have the skills to pull them off, or. And this was the hardest lesson. I realized that I was more in love with the idea of starting a company than I was with the problem that the company was supposed to solve.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That is, by the way, that is so common. And I've been there too.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Honestly, just to be clear, I am not questioning your motivations. I'm not trying to sow any doubt. If you want to make this happen, I believe that you can. But I think the real question of your letter is how do I really commit to something? You know, how do I rewrite this pattern I have of jumping from thing to thing? How do I avoid backsliding? And the answer is, you got to keep checking in with yourself and make sure that you are still genuinely passionate about starting a business and you're making some kind of progress towards specific problems or opportunities or insights. You're not just finding something else to chase because it's the new thing. And also, you got to keep an eye on your relationship with this project and make sure that you are doing it because you genuinely care about the problem or the product or the customer, not just because you want to be a business owner in some abstract sense. And you also got to stick with it long enough to find out what it's like when it is not fun. You know, when you are not as inspired, when that initial burst of motivation fades away and the real problems start to pop up. And teach yourself how to stay in a relationship with your goal through all of those phases, which actually means being in a relationship with yourself that can survive these uncomfortable feelings, which I'm just going to guess are like frustration and disillusionment and confusion, even boredom. These same feelings are probably the ones that made you want to jump from thing to thing in the past. And you've got to work to stay connected to what you truly care about when those feelings are in the mix.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Spot on, Gabe. She's in a parallel process right now. She's hunting for a good idea, but she's also learning how to stick with something. Yes, those are two different skills, but they're obviously going to inform each other. Yeah, as for school, don't drop out yet. Don't put the card before the horse. If you land on an idea and a business takes off before you graduate, then you can decide jumping the gun on dropping out, that might be focusing on a problem that doesn't exist yet. It might be another ping pong move. You know what it reminds me of? Gabriel's? A lot of people will write in and go like, oh, I watched a video from like some influencer and they say, burn the ships and go all in on my side hustle. And it's like, why? Oh, something. Motivation. Something Sounds good on TikTok. And it's like, no, don't quit your day job or the thing that you are doing to pay the bills. Until that is the absolute bottleneck. Like, you can't scale your business because you don't have enough free time because you are working at a restaurant. Then quit your restaurant.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Not because you want to put yourself in a manufactured position of desperation to pursue this thing that you might or might not actually be connected to.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right. That just doesn't make any sense. That's a weird memey Instagram TikToky, like business influencer piece advice that they themselves would absolutely never follow.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Right.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So don't do that. But I also wouldn't put this newfound passion on hold. Do both, man. It could take you two, three or five years, 10 years. I don't want to scare you. Take a while to find a business that succeeds. That's just how it goes. And you might be very happy to have that degree in the meantime, or at least have it be behind you or have your parents off your back or whatever it is. I'll tell you, I have a law degree that I don't use. And when I become an advisor for other companies, they'll say, oh, Jordan Harbinger is a podcaster and an attorney. And then inevitably we'll be on an investor call or something and they're like, hey, where'd you go to law school? Michigan. And they're like, oh wow. You know, they're general counsel's like, wow, that's pretty good. You're not going to be like, I'm so sad. I have a degree. It's going to be an asset at some point or at least you're going to look like somebody who can obtain a degree and therefore you're going to have credibility when you start your business. So just, there's no reason to drop it right now. The only reason to drop out of school now in my view, is if you absolutely hate every second of it. You just can't find it in you to do a decent job, you know, in your bones. School is not your path. It makes you want to barf thinking about doing it. Then I might say, okay, don't waste another two years and a ton of your parents money, even if you don't have a business idea yet. But there goes your visa too. By the way. It just doesn't sound like this is the case. What you need is just some balance and some systems to stay on top of school while you also nurture this business dream. And you know, C's get degrees, bro. You don't have to ace everything. You just have to try hard enough to pass. I know that's terrible. That's not the parent in me talking.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But like, no, but that's real. Also, I think that's probably especially true in music. When your degree is music. Like do you have to get an A in music?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like if you want to go to law school, then you need good undergrad grades. If you want to get a degree from a music school, you just have to get a degree from a music school. So I'll let you do the math on that. But if you focus on these systems balance, this path is just going to start to unfold on its own or it won't and you'll know what to do next. I promise you that much. Love your passion, love your mindset. Some exciting things ahead, my friend, and good luck. You can reach us [e-mail] Please keep your emails concise. Try to use a descriptive subject line that makes our job a whole lot easier. If your parents are financially and emotionally supporting, your unfaithful absentee ex husband, your aggro colleague is caught up in a romance scam, and you don't know whether to save her or your polyamorous partner won't prioritize you over another partner, whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up fridayordanharbinger.com we're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. By the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out our newsletter, Wee Bitwiser. I love the engagement here. Every time we send one of these out, we get a lot of responses. It's a two minute read. Comes out most Wednesdays. A lot of wisdom from the episodes, A lot of things to chew on for the rest of the week. I'm really just impressed with how much engagement this thing gets, how much people love reading it and replying. So go ahead and check it out. Come join us. You can sign [e-mail] news okay, what's next?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hi Jordan and Gabe. My girlfriend is having communication issues at work. I'm about 10 years older than her, so I'm kind of a different generation. She's incredibly intelligent, but I've noticed that her younger millennial style of speech is getting an abrasive reaction from her gen boss. At 43, I straddle the two generations and I can see how millennial speech patterns can seem condescending and maybe even confrontational to an older man.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Interesting. It can't be worse than the Gen X, Gen Z device.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Oh, no way. That's an abyss.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Even millennials are like, man, these kids are on some other shit. I don't get it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It's hard to give you examples because a lot of this has to do with inflection. Let's say it's a Monday morning meeting and the boss asks how something is going with a specific client. She'll reply, I haven't heard back yet, but I don't check my email on weekends because, you know, like boundaries.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That strikes me as incredibly annoying and reckless.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, you're upset.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

This is probably said in a sing song tone. Probably meant to be a bit sarcastic, but also trying to assert the Fact that she is not paid to work on weekends. So she's not being sarcastic, she's saying the truth in a way. Like with a tone that's supposed to suggest it's not as as big of a deal as it is, but she's actually saying it okay. Another example, when asking if it's okay to work remotely, she almost always feels like the approval was given hesitantly and or was forced. I'm not sure what was said in that exchange, but I imagine it probably went something like I can get more done if I work from home today without all the distractions. I wasn't there in person, but I do think that the expectation for young professionals to work seven days a week or at least be on call is growing, even though few job descriptions will.

[Jordan Harbinger]

State that that's different though work remotely doesn't mean work seven days a week. It sounds like she's staying home.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

No, he introduced a new idea there.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But yeah, but also like I'd love to work home to from home today with all the distractions. You know, like my annoying colleagues, annoying boss meetings and calls, you. I'd rather just watch Netflix in one tab while pretending to answer my slack message.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

All those distractions. My phone keeps dinging when the client wants to get in touch.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So yeah, really. But I will say I just heard all of our European listeners. I'm envious that they can't wrap their heads around this because a lot of EU countries have that to disconnect law that basically it basically makes it illegal to force employees to answer emails after like 5pm or whatever.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Having just hundreds of thousands of extra hours having just returned from the continent can confirm these people are not on their iPhones after 5pm Right, but like.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Here in America, you're on call.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, you better be. You're at least expected to not be behind the ball during the Monday morning huddle.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm pretty sure that high performers in Europe are still checking their email. They stay past they Johan, can you check your email later when you get home? Because I think there might be info about this. Like yes, I will glance at my phone once it's around 7pm and if it's in there. Okay. Come on. It can't really be. Forget about everything.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I know talking is complicated, but I want to share this insight with her because I think it might shed some light on the matter. The problem is that I don't want to send the signal that she needs to alter patterns of speech that are basically her in order to succeed.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But what if those patterns are holding her back in her career that it's important for her to know that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Is this just her or is this being a bad employee? Like, what if her is not someone suited for any level of serious responsibility?

[Jordan Harbinger]

What if her is a barista?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

You know?

[Jordan Harbinger]

No shade on baristas.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

No, but you do not get emails about the client needing an oat milk latte.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, if you work weekends, it's because you're on the schedule.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So he goes on. Or are we at that point where spoken language needs to be refined a bit in order to maintain respectful conversation? Um, I don't know if there was ever a point where that wasn't the case.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No, that is. That has been the case. Congrats. That's been the case since the dawn of spoken language, bro.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Just discovered corporate, right? I would never suggest this to a person who doesn't have English as a first language. So why would I care about a native English speaker's tone and inflection?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, okay. Because they're totally different completely.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Am I missing something? Because why am I explaining this? A native speaker has a much better grasp of the language. They can hear this stuff differently.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Or they should.

[Jordan Harbinger]

They should.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Gabe, I'm mystified by this argument. What does this have to do with anything? She's a native English speaker. She's overtly communicating that she doesn't give a crap about this job, and she's covering it with, like, faux sarcasm. The fact that our friend here is even entertaining this objection in advance. I don't know, man. Maybe I'm reading into this too much, but I feel like he's not totally in touch with how reckless.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I think he's slowly starting to get it. But he's. Yeah, he might not realize this is a really big deal. So you're saying, is he letting her off the hook in advance?

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm getting that sense, yeah. But to go back to the other example. Like, if you have a colleague from China or Russia and they say something and you go, that sounded kind of rude, your next thought is probably, oh, but he's foreign. So, like, maybe he doesn't realize how rude that sounds. Maybe I'll say something. If he does something like that again, because he would love to know. But if a native speaker says it, you don't go, gee, she doesn't have enough grasp of the English language. You're like, no, that was deliberately kind of a shitty thing to say. I'm going to judge her for it. And it's fair to do that. I mean, that's how this works.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And if it's not deliberate, then you're at least being obtuse.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes. And then it's like, do I want somebody with low EQ in my office handling clients? Not really. So which one is it?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Would you have this conversation? If so, how. And do generational differences matter as much as I think, signed, wondering how to convey that my girlfriend needs to pay more attention to how she plays with these older folks who would probably say that they're a little bit dismayed by this attitude she's displaying.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Interesting. So, okay, yeah, of course generational differences matter, but honestly, what you're describing, in my opinion, it has much less to do with generational differences and more to do with just not being able or not being willing to read the room very well.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. This is not a Gen X millennial divide.

[Jordan Harbinger]

This is a disrespectful kind of interaction. You said you have a feeling that her speech patterns can seem condescending, maybe even confrontational, especially to an older man. That is not a millennial Gen X thing. That's a human being thing. A millennial Gen X thing is that guy wore what looked like jeans to the interview. They were nice, but they weren't. There wasn't a suit and a tie, and you're like, oh, they interviewed at a bunch of tech companies. That's kind of fine. This firm, it's different. Eh. It's a generational thing.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Or like, my Gen Z subordinate wants to text instead of call or something like that, which is also, I would argue, kind of something they need to work on. But, like, that's more of a generational thing. This just sounds like being a bad colleague.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes. I would find a lot of this abrasive to what she said earlier. I would find that abrasive even if I were the same age as your girlfriend or younger. The age thing for sure heightens it. Now, I gotta state the obvious. None of us are in the room with her. We don't know for sure how she's saying these things, how they're landing. We just kind of have to take your word for it. But I think your read on this is probably generally correct. And because you straddle both generations, you're probably more sensitive than most, and that's an asset. But I hear you that you don't want to tell your girlfriend how to talk at work. You don't want to take away a style that's essentially hers. But if this, you know, super authentic style is rubbing people the wrong way, like I said, I think that's crucial feedback. She's not a comedian. She's not Bill Burr. This is not your line of work. You're handling clients. It's up to her whether she wants to take all this into account. If I were her, I would certainly want to know. But I get that you don't want to be presumptuous. You don't want to be a know it all. You don't want to make her self conscious. You also don't have all the information because you weren't there. She's 33. She's not 23.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Good point.

[Jordan Harbinger]

If someone's 23. When I was 23 and I was working in law offices, I remember you're kind of clueless. I was clueless. My dad was an auto worker, my mom was a teacher. So I came in and I remember they were like, hey, this is a British law firm. You don't have to wear a suit. But we expect, like, the top buttons to be buttoned and not show, like, the undershirt. And I was like, oh, crap. I didn't know that. I'm not from enough from the UK and in New York, it was okay to not have a tie and a little bit of your white shirt showing. Like, no big deal. So people tell you things. They don't go, what an idiot you got. We gotta get rid of this guy. If you're 33 and you're talking to your boss that way, it's like, hey, oh, here's a better example. And when I was in New York, I made another gaffe. I think it was also 23. One of the partners, his initials were on his cuff of his shirt, and it was S.O.B. and I went, oh, your initials are S.O.B. just not thinking. And he was like, yep. And I remember going, oh. And I, like, had nothing else to say because I was like, what do you say? Like, I was like, oh, I better not say anything. And I paused and he paused, and he was, like, offended by that a little bit. He told HR about that. And they were like, hey, don't try to be funny at work. And he's like, yeah, I wasn't trying.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I didn't even make a joke.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It was just a gaffe. Like, it was just a stupid thing. But they were like, don't worry about it. It's. He's not mad. It's like, be careful about that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

He wasn't mad, but he went to HR about it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

He was a little short, shrimpy guy, and he was a little bit like a. He was the guy who would say, no problem, and then go to HR and be like, he asked to leave the office early.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But your point is, when you're 23, you're not attuned to that, right? And they.

[Jordan Harbinger]

They're aware of this. But when you're 33, you get way less slack. Because now it's like, why are we teaching you how to behave in an office environment? Environment? What is wrong with you? You've been in the corporate environment for a minimum of like, 10 years. What's wrong with you? What is your deal? Either you're clueless or you're doing it on purpose. Which one is it? So in order to talk to her about this, what if you kicked it off by saying, so, hey, I was thinking about that story you told me the other day when your boss was like, hey, how's it going with such and such client? And you said, I haven't heard back yet, but I don't check my email on weekends because, you know, like, boundaries. I understand you feel the need to protect your time. Maybe you feel you don't get paid enough to work on weekends. We can talk about that. But I was just wondering, how did your boss respond when you said that? How do you think he took that?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Nice.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I like that I would start there and invite her to get curious about that. And here's the thing, Gabriel. I think she already knows, because how does this guy know that that happened? Surely he reacted poorly or she suspects he did and then came home. She came home and told him. She's going to have to start taking an interest in her colleague's opinion of her before she can really make a change here. If she engages with you, then you can move into questions like, so how do you think your boss felt when you said that? Is he cool when you ask to work remotely, or do you feel like there's tension around it? How are you making that request? Do you feel like they trust you to work at home and get stuff done? I know that sounds a little interrogation Y. I wouldn't bombard her with all these questions in a row. I'm just giving you a few ideas for how to start the conversation.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I like it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And then see how she responds. If she's like, sometimes I feel like he's just annoyed with me. Or they don't love it when I work from home, but I gotta do it. That's a good sign. That's a way in. If she's like, my boss gets annoyed with me, but I don't even care. I'm not answering Emails on weekends, they don't pay me. That's on them. That's a sign that she's not open to talking about this. Frankly, that's a loser mindset. But I digress. And then you gotta decide, do I press this issue and give her the feedback anyway or do I just let her figure this out on her own by falling on her face?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I hear that. I would say, though, even if she responds that way, he could still say, huh, interesting. I hear that. But why don't you care what he thinks of you? True.

[Jordan Harbinger]

He could keep digging. He could keep asking.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. Or he could say, yeah, it would be nice if you were paid to work more on the weekends. Have you thought about asking for a raise?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, that's clever. Because then she'd probably be like, hell, yeah, I'd love to get paid more. And you could say, he could basically say, yeah, me too. Do you think you've earned it? Do you think your boss would go for it? How does he feel about you?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And there's your window back in.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes, I like that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So I think we're on the same page here. The more we talk about this, the more I think this is about much more than just communication style. The way she's communicating is just the top layer of a deeper thing that she needs to look at. A way of being with her colleagues, her values around relationships and work. And yeah, this is not just about inflection or whatever. This is really about her mindset.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So to go back to that conversation about the client for a moment, whether she should be checking email on weekends or not, whether she should be enforcing boundaries with her bosses or not.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm sorry, she should be checking her email on weekends. As a client, I know this is a no brainer to. Dude, you're telling me you're servicing a client, which is like real responsibility. I mean, you're the, you're the front lines of a firm who services clients. There's a way to be across this stuff without sacrificing your whole weekend. Really just look at it on Sunday night at 8pm be like, email from client. Yes.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Look at it in the elevator on the way up. Like, it's not that hard. This is your job. So that's actually where I was going with this. Which is even if she's right to draw boundaries, let's just say which, I'm with you. I think part of being a good employee, certainly being in client service is being on top of this kind of stuff in a very basic way. But even if she's right to protect her time. There's a much smarter way to say this and a more helpful one, which is, yeah, overall, things with the client are good, as far as I know. I don't think I've heard back from them yet, but I'm going to go check my email after this. Let me check in with them, see how they're doing. I'll let you know if there are any big updates to talk about. It's simple. Why is she even bringing up the fact that she doesn't check her email on weekends?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right. Well, here's the thing. It's like she's looking for an excuse to just remind them that she doesn't want to do more work, which, again, I'm not convinced that it's more work, but, you know, that's not important. It sounds like it's just work she's supposed to be doing at times that she doesn't like doing it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's right.

[Jordan Harbinger]

She could shift that to a time she does. Like by, I don't know, waking up five minutes earlier and checking her email. Like you said in the elevator before the Monday morning huddle. I feel bad. I don't want this guy's nice, he's writing in, but this is like, petulant child stuff.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So it sounds to me like your girlfriend really actually does need to reconsider her whole approach to her job or actually needs someone to point out that she's looking at all of this in a concerning way.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

What signals is she sending by putting up a roadblock or finding a point of conflict, as opposed to framing things in a productive way, you know, with an eye toward, like, the solution as opposed to another problem, which is one of the greatest qualities in a colleague, in my opinion.

[Jordan Harbinger]

100% being combative and abrasive like this. It's the kind of thing that can tank your career candidly, or at least keep you stuck.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So I don't envy our friend here because I think his job is actually even bigger than he thinks. It's not just, you know, you need to maybe modulate your voice a little. Maybe a little less Millennial, a little more Gen X speak. You know, this is. How are you showing up to these interactions? You know, how are you caring for your relationship? So that's a more intense conversation. But I'm actually worried about her if she does not get this feedback.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Same if I'm working in an office environment and someone signals that they're lazy or uninterested in responsibility. I don't even Want to be associated with them. I don't want that stench on me. This sounds like I'm exaggerating, but I. I don't want to be in the elevator with you while you're scrolling TikTok instead of your inbox, because I don't want people to associate us together, dude.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But to your point, she's responsible for clients, so this is a liability even beyond the company.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes, thank you. Good point. It's not a good look. I can't highlight that. I can't overstate that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I feel like we're kind of beating a dead horse here. I think we've made our point, but I just. I'm really confused by this psychology. If you don't feel you're getting paid enough to do certain work, which is not even that much additional work, it just sounds like it's your job, but whatever, instead of saying, yeah, I'm not doing that, because. Boundaries. Why aren't you doing the work? Showing your boss how valuable you are, using that to secure the salary you would want to be paid to do that same work, and then being happy that you got promoted and got compensated more. It's just. I just find this to be such a strange way of looking at things.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You know what this reminds me of? A long time ago, this guy and I are still friends. He's a good dude, but we hired a kid who was pretty young back in my old company. It was hard to manage him. Like, you'd tell him we need this to get done, and he would do, like, no work on it for three days in a row. And then you'd say, like, what's your eta? And he's like, I don't know. You basically get him to, like, crap out this draft version of it. And you'd go, okay, what do you think of this? And you go, well, I wouldn't put my name on it, but it's done. And you're like, bro, what? So we finally had a talk where we're like, hey, you can't operate like this. And he goes, if you guys want me to work harder, you need to make me a partner in the business. So we were like, if you want to be a partner, you have to absolutely blow us away and make it so that we're like, oh, my God, we can never afford to lose this guy. A raise isn't going to cut it. We need to give him an equal equity stake in the company. We're not going to give you an equity stake in the company to motivate you to Actually do the job we already pay you for.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Right? Why do you think that works? Why would people want to give you that responsibility and that money? It doesn't.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's because he's never had a real job and he's never had a boss. Gabe, you run in polite circles, so you probably haven't heard this, but amongst a lot of the rough ruffians that I hang out with, there'll be a kid or a guy that you talk to and they'll leave the table or whatever and the guys will go. You can just tell that's a guy that never had his ass properly kicked. And what that means is, like, you just never had a group of friends, guys, colleagues, a drill sergeant in the military, a dad who went, this is bullshit, and just knocked some freaking sense into you. And you can tell because they're like those. Those little smug guys that'll make like a snide comment. You're like, you realize the person you're mouthing off to could break you in half with their thumbs, right? What are you doing? What is this weird disrespect where you're putting yourself above other folks? This. There's a lot of guys like that. They need to have life knock them around if they don't have a person to do it. It's much better to get knocked around by a parental figure or a boss than it is to actually have life hand you your ass, generally speaking, because it takes a lot more failure for life to hand you your ass. And then you are in trouble, right? Like, oh, crap, I ruined my career path at this tech company because I couldn't get it together. This should have happened in high school. So there's a lot of people like that out there. And this guy was one of those people, and this is why he did that. I don't want to give this away because, like, again, a good guy in many respects, he basically had to go work for a public entity that is kind of well known for. If you can get a job here, you basically never have to do any real work and you work bankers hours. You just make a middling quality of life, but no one is ever going to give you real responsibility and your check is always going to be on time.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Interesting. Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But, you know, not the worst outcome, but also, like, this kid was smart and talented, probably could have worked at a real solid tech company and had a really nice lifestyle if he could just get out of his own way. And that's what I'm smelling.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Well, it's interesting because Our friend who's writing in just to bring it back to him is also kind of dancing around this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

He's afraid doing or anything.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

No, he's not. That's the thing. And I think he probably senses that this might be a bit of a difficult conversation. But if he doesn't have this conversation, is she going to end up like this guy?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Or worse, maybe like, gee, I got fired and now I can't get a letter of reference. I wonder why. Well, maybe because your boss was tearing his hair out after every interaction with you. And no, you can never work in your industry because it's too tight knit and they can't stand you. It's like you don't need to get to that level and have that consequence if somebody can just say, hey, stop being an asshole at work. So if you frame this as I want to see you succeed, I want to give you all the information you need to thrive. I think I'm seeing something that might be hard for you to see. Is it cool if I share something with you? Let's explore this together, that kind of thing. It's hard to go wrong.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's a really nice way to put it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's a tough conversation, man, but it's a really important one. And if your girlfriend makes some adjustments and starts to see better results, I really think she's going to thank you for it. Maybe not right away, but eventually. So good luck. All right. We'll be right back. I need to take a break because, you know, like, boundaries. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Deleteme. Delete me makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breach are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. As somebody with an active online presence, I definitely pay attention to my privacy. I don't want my personal info showing up on random data broker sites. Things like addresses, phone numbers, family members. It is unsettling to know that anybody could just buy that. Deleteme does all the hard work of wiping that stuff for you and your family from hundreds of those sketchy sites. You just tell them what you want removed. Their privacy experts take it from there. Then they send you personalized reports showing what info they found, where they found it, and what they removed, and they keep monitoring to make sure it stays gone. The New York Times Wirecutter even named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services. It's super easy to get started. I signed up in just a few minutes and I highly recommend you do it too.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Sponsor Voice]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

This episode is also sponsored in part by Tonal. One of the hardest parts about going to the gym is just not knowing where to start. That's where Tonal shines. It's the ultimate strength training system that tracks your progress and takes all the guesswork out of working out so you can actually see results and keep pushing forward. Tonal gives you the convenience of a full gym and the guidance of a personal trainer all in one sleek, compact system right at home. After a quick assessment, it sets the perfect weight for every move and automatically adjusts as you get stronger. You can literally see your progress every time you train. It also gives you real time coaching cues to perfect your form and lift safely so you're Never wondering if you're doing it right. And I love that. Tonal's got a huge variety of expert LED workouts. Strength, arrow hit, yoga, mobility, whatever you're into. Whether you've got 10 minutes or an hour, you can get legit guided workouts that actually fit your schedule. Tonal makes it easy to stay consistent and see real progress. No commute, no excuses, no guesswork.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and you found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment. Support the sponsors. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the [e-mail] deals if that doesn't work, please email us. We'd love to dig up the code for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the recommendation of the week.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

My recommendation of the week is a star projector. I think this is also called a galaxy light or sometimes it's called a planetarium projector. So this is one of those devices that projects cool images on your ceiling, like stars and planets and kind of milky galaxy type images, all kinds of colors and shapes. This was one of my favorite things back home and then I ended up getting a new one in Germany and traveling around with it and I would plug it in wherever I went. It just made every hotel room or Airbnb or ramp random guest room. I ended up in more interesting. So these things used to be kind of cheesy, but in the last few years they've gotten really good. And they're just an awesome way to create a fun vibe in your living room or your bedroom. And they're great for parties and they're great for movie nights and decorating. I hear kids love them. They could be great in a kid's bedroom or nursery. They also make for great gifts.

[Jordan Harbinger]

My kids, we have one of these Jen bodies. She's like, trust me, this is going to be cool. And I was like, ugh, these stupid things thing, it's awesome.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So you have one?

[Jordan Harbinger]

We have.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's amazing.

[Jordan Harbinger]

My kids love it. It has like galaxies and stars. They're probably not accurate. No astronomy.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Not at all.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Whatever, it doesn't matter. It also does like rainbow colored lighting and like, almost like a smoky looking thing. That's. That's why I say galaxies. But I'm a big fan. It's super cool. It. It's a really cool night. Light, mood light. It gets the kids thinking. Asking questions about space, thinking about the universe.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And they're very reasonable. You can get a good one for like $30 or something.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. With a remote and a timer and a music thing and a different millions. It's basically just a cheap light. I mean, but it's. Yeah, it's very cool.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I've had a few models over the years. They all basically do the same thing, but some of them have cool features like a special moon or certain colors and a motor that moves the stars around or whatever.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So we'll link to three or four options in the show. Notes. Enjoy.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Good one, Gabe. Also, in case y' all don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. If you want to jump into discussions with other listeners about specific episodes, recommendations and the like, it's over on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right, what's next?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Hey, Jordan and Gabe. I had a successful business for 20 years. I am a planner and a saver. I recently closed my business and am now able to live off of investments.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow. Nicely done. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that you did not do this by not answering your emails after 5pm not that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

We'Re hung up on this at all.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No, definitely not. Still worked up about this person. I don't even know. I don't have to manage.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

My dilemma is that I live in the wonderful but complicated Midwest and in my local area, it is unfathomable to most people that I am able to do this. When I'm honest with people, I get negative reactions, questions, or an awkward silence, interest.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So I'm from Michigan, as y' all know. I can totally see this happening.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Really?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. I'm from near Detroit. The path for most people. Look, the path for most people, at least in my parents generation, was you work for Ford. Or as we call it in Michigan, Fords. I don't know why they do.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Really?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, they make everything possessive.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Do you know that? That's one of my biggest pet peeves.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I can only imagine.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I hate when people put in a possessive after a thing that doesn't. When they're like McCormick and Schmix or whatever.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. Is that.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I'm making that up, but is that. I don't think that's a no.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's about right. I don't know why we do that. I don't know if that has to do with, like, the Slavic and Polish immigration and language stuff or if it's just maybe.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But they do in la, too. They'll be like, we're going to Palomino's. I'm like, is Palomino being. Stop saying that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So you work for Fords. You retire at 65, you get a pension. In my area growing up, the only entrepreneurs were immigrants. There were two Chinese families on my street. One of them owned a dry cleaner. The other one owned a Chinese restaurant. There were Greek people. They all owned restaurants. Almost every single one of them that I knew. So anyone who does it differently, it's like. It's just confusing. It took years for my dad to wrap his head around what I do for a living. For years after I left the law, he was like, I don't really get how you make money. I just don't understand it. I'm like, yeah, dad, you're from Michigan. There are other ways to live. Like, I get paid by every. He's like, I guarantee you. He still doesn't fully understand.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

That's so funny.

[Jordan Harbinger]

How it works.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Does not compute.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

This goal that I worked hard for has left me in an awkward social situation. I am proud of this accomplishment and this ability to spend more time with family, but I don't know how to address it when others ask, what do you do? Or where do you work? Maybe if I lived in an area with different socioeconomics or I was in the military, it wouldn't be so weird. It would be weirder if you were in the military and you were retired at 47 years old, right?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, maybe.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Anyway, what advice do you have on how to approach this? Signed Navigating this insecurely. When I managed to kick back early.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I think you just lie to everyone and tell them you were in the special forces. Problem solved. Problem soldiers.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

But, like, famously, do those people retire wealthy early? No, that doesn't work.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Tell them you do. Only fans.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

There it is.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, there you go.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Definitely won't end up with more questions after that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No. But do we. Is this a man or a woman?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It's a woman.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, okay.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Definitely go with only actually, you know. Interesting. Do you think she's getting these reactions because she's a woman?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, that could be part of it.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Because if it were a man, they'd be like, oh, yeah, you're a man. You do investments. I got it. She's a woman. They're like, what? They don't know how to make Sold a business.

[Jordan Harbinger]

What, a knitting business?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, exactly. You own three properties, but you got long hair.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

I don't get it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I don't understand. How do you have a checking account if you're a woman? Hats off to you for being so enterprising and disciplined and being able to retire.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Relatively incredible.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's awesome and super inspiring. And I'm quite fascinated and intrigued by this response you're getting. Honestly, I wonder if these people are more surprised and intrigued by your situation than they are skeptical and judgmental. Sometimes they can. And those things can look similar if people aren't coming right out and saying, like, damn, I can't believe you're 48 and retired. I didn't know that was possible. Please explain. Maybe you're interpreting their response in a certain way. I don't know. But anyway, I will take you at your word that you're getting negative reactions. So let's assume that at least some of these responses are, in fact, kind of weird. My first thought is, so stinking. What? So what if people are judgy, skeptical or have questions or don't know what to say? You're killing it. Cool. Anyone who doesn't hear this and go, holy smokes, that's amazing. Congrats. How'd you do it? They're just missing the point. Also, any negative reactions you get from people, any judgment about your financial situation, it's ultimately a reflection of them. Their ideas about how people should live their lives, their feelings around money, their insecurity, their envy, their fear, their lack.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Of curiosity, their weird feelings about women being good with money or whatever it is. Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. So I guess my take there is, I just think you need to learn to worry less about other people's reactions to this because A, whatever the reaction is, it sounds like it's ultimately a reflection of the same discomfort or judgment, and that just has nothing to do with you. And B, it literally just doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is how you take care of yourself and what you think about yourself, whether you find your life rewarding and meaningful.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah. Although maybe it does matter to her in the sense that. That people might treat her differently and so she has a different standing in her community or something because of her.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Harder to make friends with the weirdo job that everyone feels like you look down on them even though it's not true.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It also might be interesting for her to consider why these people's reactions affect her so much.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Maybe that's part of the Midwestern thing too. Or just Coming from a certain background or a certain community or a certain size town, again, coming from the Midwest, I do think there's an impulse to want to be seen a certain way, wanting to fit in, not wanting to come across as a show off.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Like if I do well, then people are going to think I'm like high.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And mighty or yeah, Australia has this.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Thing too, all poppies syndrome.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And it's like, oh, look, you started your own business. Well, smell you right? Like, what did I do? It's not fair, really.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

What's interesting though is that she's lived her life in a very intentional way and that has put her on a very different path from most people. So of course she's going to get some unusual reactions. If she didn't want unusual reactions, she could have lived her life the way most people, people in her area do and she probably would not be retired at 48.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Exactly. And that's why I think she needs to let go of this need to be responded to in a certain way. Because you're right, that's only confirmation that she's done something remarkable.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

It's also possible, and I think you were circling this a moment ago, Jordan, it's possible that she's projecting a little bit some of her own judgments onto these people. I'm not saying that she's making all of this up. These people might in fact be awkward or turned off or nosy or whatever, but. But she might be bringing her own stuff to these conversations and what's actually just shock or befuddlement or confusion, intrigue on their part that might end up feeling to her like something worse.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's probably true. Otherwise why would these people's responses affect her?

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

So, yeah, they would have to chime with some part of her that is kind of vulnerable to those opinions.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I strongly suspect that's playing some role here. But there might be a few things going on, including maybe some shame about doing so well and getting to live life on her own terms so much earlier than most people. But look, you do not need to be ashamed about that. What you've done is hugely impressive. It's inspiring. You didn't luck into the money, didn't win the lottery, it wasn't handed to you. You saved and planned and invested and now you get to enjoy that. So my hope for you is that you can learn to tolerate these responses a little bit better, put them in context a little more, notice the parts of yourself that might be feeding these negative interpretations, and then maybe have a little more fun with these conversations. Maybe it can be a little game. How weird is this person going to act when I tell them I don't have to work anymore and I haven't hit menopause yet? I don't know. And maybe even say to them, I know it's crazy. I'm living the life of a pensioner at 48, I get to enjoy my investments without osteoporosis and dementia. I have piss. Maybe you just need a little humor to disarm people and show them that you're down to earth. You could even say, I know it can be an awkward subject. I honestly can't tell what reaction you're having right now, but this happened because I scrimped and saved and invested, which is my goal to enjoy all this. If you have any questions about it, I'm happy to talk and basically just invite these people to follow their curiosity more than their judgment. I think that's what I would do. And if you really can't stand these conversations or you live in an area where people truly don't want to know how well you're doing, you can always just not talk about this and keep it vague. That's an option too, but I wouldn't do it to spare other people their complicated feelings about something that, assuming you're not being a total a hole about it, which I doubt you are, is objectively awesome. You should be proud of it. Congrats, my friend. Enjoy your life. Use this financial freedom to keep learning about yourself and keep growing.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

Yeah, and to support our sponsors, of course.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You clearly have enough money to buy a new mattress and some bougie protein pasta. All right, y' all go back and check out Dr. Lane Norton, Uba Butler, and our Skeptical Sunday on Onlyfans. If you haven't done so yet. The best things that have happened in my life, in business have come through my network. The circle of people I know like, and trust me. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our six minute networking course. It is free. It's not gross, it's not schmoozy. You can find it on the thinkific [e-mail] Dig that. Well, before you get thirsty, folks, build relationships before you need them. Again, it's all free over at sixminutenetworking.com advertisers discounts ways to support the show on the [e-mail] deals. I'm ordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. Gabe's over on Instagram at. Gabriel Mizrahi this show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer. Do your own research before implementing anything you hear on the show. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Imagine a world where money, religion and nations are shifting under the rise of AI capable of making decisions beyond human control.

[Yuval Noah Harari]

Humans are very good in solving problems, but they often focus on the wrong problems. The idea that information is truth. People will have more knowledge. Everything will be okay. This is extremely naive. Most information isn't truth. It is fictions and fantasies and delusions and errors and lies and so forth. The truth is a very rare and costly kind of information, which is why if you flood the world with information, the truth will not float up. It will sink to the bottom. Democracies all over the world are currently in crisis. They are undermined because of manipulations by AI. The one one thing everybody should know is that AI is not a tool, it is an agent. AI can make decisions by itself. We already have autonomous weapon systems. It can even invent new weapons. Social media algorithms are currently the most powerful editors in the world. They increase user engagement by manipulating billions. The easiest way to capture people's attention is by spreading outrage. I'm not saying oh, we should stop all development of AI. No, of course there is enormous positive potential. Otherwise we wouldn't develop it. The key question is how do we enable the positive potential of AI to flower while avoiding the really existential risks this technology poses?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Join me on episode 1068 as Yuval Noah Harari explores the risks and responsibilities we face as AI transforms our society.

[Gabriel Mizrahi]

And Doug, here we have the Limu.

[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Yuval Noah Harari]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Gabriel Mizrahi]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

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