B (3:16)

Hey, Jordan. I'm excited to ruin a few vape clouds for people.

A (3:20)

Perfect. Okay, so first things first. Full disclosure. Have you ever smoked or vaped?

B (3:25)

I have never vaped and technically I smoked two cigarettes in my teens, but both times I was on lsd, so I don't think that counts.

A (3:35)

Yeah, if you did it in the fourth dimension, did it really happen? Yeah, that's not smoking. I don't know what that is.

B (3:41)

I think it was a good time, but let's just blow past that. I did grow up surrounded by smokers though. My parents, relatives, neighbors. And they smoked inside Ew. Which was common in the 80s. Ashtrays on the nightstands kind of house. It was like living inside a Philip Morris commercial. When I was a little kid, I took a nap on my parents bed. My hand went in the ashtray and then that ashy hand went in my mouth. I mean, I can taste it as I'm telling you this and it just turned me off for life.

A (4:15)

I don't think you were raised right. That's horrifying. I can only imagine the smell in there of all the smoking indoors.

B (4:21)

God, I absolutely was not raised right. But it worked in my favor. As far as smoking goes, I got what we call negative conditioning.

A (4:30)

So your anti smoking device was literally an Ashtray next to your bed that is dark.

B (4:35)

Yeah. And thank God, though, because I had every reason to be hooked. Were you ever a smoker or vaper?

A (4:43)

So vaping stuff before people knew it was bad for you. Like, I mean, I'm talking, like, 2009. I remember somebody sent me a USB chargeable cigarette thing, and they were like, there's no nicotine in here. And I was like, oh, okay, that's the harmful stuff, so I'll just try this. And I used it kind of like an electric hookah. But then I realized I was just keeping it in my mouth one day, and I was like, I. Basically, throughout the day, I was like, using this, and I was like, this is gross. Like, who knows what this is? Is. It's probably oil in here and stuff. I just. I don't want it. So I got rid of it. And smoking. Smoking was one of those things where, like, when I was in Europe and I was three sheets to the wind or something, and all the Serbians got out their cigarettes, which is, you know, at 8:00am Yeah. I was just like, I'll do it too. And then I rem. I remember being like, this stinks. And my wife was like, hey, don't ever do that again. And I was like, yeah. Because I. Yeah, I just did it when I was drinking, and I basically stopped smoking and drinking, which, by the way, highly recommend. Not drinking or smoking. They're both bad for you. Spoiler alert.

B (5:39)

Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a miracle I never picked it up. I mean, I remember before cigarettes were banned in restaurants and I worked in a restaurant, part of the side work was cleaning the ashtrays, and we would just throw them in the same dishwasher as the dishes. Think back on that. I'm like, that is disgusting.

A (6:00)

Is that legal? That's really gross. I feel like that's illegal. That's gotta be.

B (6:04)

I don't know. This was Philadelphia. There's no laws there. I don't know.

A (6:07)

Jeez.

B (6:08)

I mean, as for vaping, that came after my time. I tried a weed pen once or twice, and I hated it. It burned. I coughed. My lungs felt raw. No, thanks.

A (6:19)

So you got lucky with the cigs. But humans, we've always smoked something, right? It's an ancient practice. The old peace pipe.

B (6:25)

Yeah. Humanity has always been inhaling something. Cigarettes, cigars, hookahs, pipes. They've been around forever.

A (6:32)

Yeah. Cavemen were probably rolling leaves and lighting those up too.

B (6:35)

They really were. Anthropologists have found smoking rituals across cultures for thousands of years. Tobacco Cannabis, all kinds of various herbs. It was social bonding, like you and the Serbians. It was ritual. It was medicine. Humans love fire and smoke. It's just hardwired.

A (6:55)

Right. It's kind of unfair. Instead of addressing that urge, society just wags its finger at kids and says, don't do it. It's bad. And then makes it just readily available everywhere, knowing that we're kind of built to inhale stuff.

B (7:08)

I know. And industries know it. They've been exploiting that urge for centuries with tobacco and weed. Then, just as smoking rates were declining, suddenly this shiny new device shows up that looks like a USB stick and smells like a Jolly Rancher.

A (7:25)

But vaping, it seemed like a miracle at first. It was marketed as less harmful than cigarettes.

B (7:30)

Right.

A (7:31)

Which makes sense, since there's no combustion, there's no ashes. So, like, maybe it's not as bad.

B (7:35)

Yeah, I mean, that's one of the biggest myths about vaping is that it's harmless. It's become a global issue. Countries are scrambling to regulate it, and companies stay a step ahead of regulations. Some places are cracking down hard, though. Singapore just tightened restrictions on vapes. They're completely banned. And as of September 2025, fines have increased. And if you're a foreigner caught vaping there, you will most likely be deported.

A (8:07)

Wow. Deported for vaping, that is. Are cigarettes banned there?

B (8:12)

That is a great question. I know bubblegum is. And durian fruit is banned on the subways. They're so strict in that society.

A (8:23)

So I just looked this up. Cigarettes are not completely banned in Singapore, but their sale and use are heavily restricted. Smoking is prohibited in most public places, including indoor public spaces, most outdoor areas like parks and beaches, and within 5 meters of building entrances, except in designated smoking areas. And the age is 21 and over. It's weird that they're like, no vapes, but smoking. Okay. And I think maybe I would love to get in their heads on this. I bet it has to do with how it's marketed to kids, but we'll get there soon.

B (8:51)

That's what I was going to say. It's just a whole new world with vapes. And here in the US states are making their own moves. Texas just passed SB 2024, which requires retail permits for vape sales sets, packaging restrictions, and bans vaping near all schools. Which is kind of crazy that they needed to pass a bill that. That wasn't already being enforced, but.

A (9:14)

Right. Oh, Texas, the state that'll let you bring a gun to brunch, but no.

B (9:18)

V. Yeah, pretty much. And it shows how disruptive vaping has become, not just here, but worldwide.

A (9:26)

Yeah, but here's the thing. People really do believe it's harmless. Like, I hear claims like it stops you from smoking cigarettes, or it's just water vapor, which is completely false.

B (9:35)

It's not vapor, you guys. It's aerosol. It's like a chemical soup. That's an important distinction. Vapor is just gas, like steam from a kettle. Aerosol means droplets of chemicals suspended in the air, stuff your lungs cannot filter.

A (9:53)

So what's actually in those vape clouds?

B (9:56)

Well, a vape cloud contains all kinds of ultrafine particles and chemicals. Studies show most aerosols contain nicotine, heavy metals like lead and nickel, carbonyls like formaldehyde, metal particles from the heating coils, and flavoring chemicals. It's not harmless steam. It's a mix of substances that get inhaled deep into your lungs.

A (10:20)

Wait, formaldehyde? That's. Yes, gross. That's the stuff they preserve like frogs in there in high school biology.

B (10:29)

I know, I know. And that's just one of the chemicals in vapes. So. Yeah, we're also talking propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nickel, lead, volatile organic compounds like diacetyl. The flavorings are another problem. Vapes are like the contents of a Home Depot aisle turned into a smoothie.

A (10:52)

That is gross.

B (10:54)

Very. Very. And the regulation is so lax that many vapes labeled, quote, unquote, nicotine free are found to actually contain nicotine when tested.

A (11:05)

So it sounds like cigarettes. We know cigarettes are addictive. Why does vaping feel different?

B (11:10)

Well, that's where nicotine salts come in. The company Juul, I think most people are familiar with, they pioneered using nicotine salts instead of freebase nicotine.

A (11:21)

Okay, that sounds intense. What's the difference there?

B (11:25)

Yeah, they're scary names. Free base nicotine is a natural form of nicotine that's extracted from tobacco leaves, providing really high nicotine levels, and then salt. Nicotine is the synthetic form of nicotine created by combining that free base nicotine with benzoic acid or lactic acid. This lowers the PH level, which makes it less harsh to inhale at higher concentrations, so you cough less, which means a faster, smoother hit to the brain.

A (11:56)

Damn. So Juul hacked nicotine?

B (11:59)

Yeah, basically, a single Juul pod is about 200 puffs of a cigarette, which is like a pack of cigarettes.

A (12:07)

And it's way easier to take 200 puffs off a vape than suck down 20 cigarettes.

B (12:11)

Right, and that's why addiction happens so quickly. So Some kids report feeling hooked after just a few hours of trying it.

A (12:19)

Oh, my God.

B (12:20)

And most adults who vape don't even quit smoking. They just do both.

A (12:24)

Oh, that can't be good.

B (12:26)

No, no, it's called dual use. And you see smokers who vape at work or indoors where cigarettes aren't allowed, then smoke a cigarette. As soon as they're somewhere they can. And the supposed benefit of harm reduction just gets canceled out. You know, if there was any in the first place.

A (12:45)

It's like cutting back on tequila by drinking vodka sodas. And then, I mean, I see people vaping indoors all the time. Concerts, bars, public transit. That's the most annoying thing. Because I'm like, dude, I'm next to you. Of course I smell your stupid banana berry bullshit thing. What's it doing to me when I could walk through a stranger's Strawberry smash vape cloud.

B (13:04)

It seems like people don't think of vape clouds as secondhand smoke. They're convinced it's water vapor, but you're definitely exposed. That's secondhand aerosol, and it's filled with nicotine and chemicals. And then there's something called third hand exposure.

A (13:23)

Third hand? What's that?

B (13:24)

So firsthand is what the person vaping inhales. Secondhand is what you or I inhale if we're near them. Right, but third hand is the residue. Okay, so the nicotine and chemicals that cling to walls, furniture, clothing, even car seats.

A (13:42)

Yuck. Okay, so your couch is chains. Your car is chain smoking. I'm just imagining putting nicotine patches on my passenger seat to help ease the cravings. That's really gross. I didn't. You don't think about this.

B (13:54)

You don't think about it. But it's also your clothes, your curtains, even your mattress. If you vape indoors and the chemicals just don't sit there, they break down and become microscopic toxic dust. So people can absorb these microparticles through skin contact or dust inhalation. And children are especially vulnerable because they crawl around, they touch everything, and they put all sorts of stuff in their mouths.

A (14:22)

Not a snack I want to give my toddler.

B (14:24)

No, definitely not. And I'd even look out for kissing guys with beards who vape.

A (14:30)

Oh, God. Okay, I will try and resist. Has not been an issue for me in the past.

B (14:34)

I mean, you never.

A (14:35)

Yeah, sure.

B (14:37)

And the same goes for your pets. You know, dogs and cats groom themselves. They lick the residue off their fur, which means they ingest nicotine and toxins, too. So studies link this to respiratory illnesses in our animals.

A (14:52)

Real estate listings should disclose that. Two bedroom, one bath, medium high nicotine saturation level. You know like when you have a meth lab in the house and they're like, you have to disclose that to the buyer.

B (15:02)

No, I didn't know that.

A (15:03)

Yeah. You never saw Breaking Bad where he's got the meth lab in the basement of his parents house and then they. They try and sell it and they have to disclose that, and he uses that to like, get the price lower. Yeah. Yeah.

B (15:12)

Anyway, I hope that makes the price go down.

A (15:15)

I would imagine so. Yeah.

B (15:17)

I mean, that would be pretty useful to know. But experts are definitive. Don't vape indoors. Same rule as smoking.

A (15:25)

Okay. I've seen scary stories about popcorn lung. There's metal lung and vapes rewiring your DNA. Is any of that real?

B (15:33)

It's all real.

A (15:34)

Oh, no.

B (15:35)

So, yeah, you're inhaling aerosolized nicotine, ultra fine particles and heavy metals. These irritate your lungs, they increase inflammation, they raise your heart rate and blood pressure. And as far as popcorn lung, it's real, but it's pretty rare.

A (15:53)

What is that exactly.

B (15:54)

So popcorn lung is the nickname for bronchiolitis obliterans.

A (16:00)

Wow.

B (16:00)

Which is a severe disease. Yeah, it's a mouthful. Which is a severe disease caused by diacetyl, which is the chemical that gives processed foods a buttery flavor.

A (16:11)

You know, silly me, I really thought they just used butter for that. My bad.

B (16:14)

Yeah, I know. Synthetic.

A (16:16)

Yep.

B (16:16)

It was first seen in microwave popcorn factory workers. That's why it's called popcorn lung.

A (16:21)

Got it.

B (16:22)

So some early vape liquids contained diacetyl, though most companies have removed it, but not all. So the risk isn't widespread, but it's not zero either.

A (16:34)

Oh, man. So people could literally be diagnosed with popcorn lung. That's tragic. And yet sounds ridiculous at the same time. Who knew Orville Redenbacher was the butcher? Orville Redenbacher.

B (16:48)

And you mentioned metal lung, which. That one's not a formal diagnosis, but researchers have found the metals from coils in vape aerosols. So the bottom line is these clouds aren't harmless for the person vaping or the people nearby or the people who come through after, frankly, you know? And studies show links between vape exposure and asthma, cognitive deficits in children, and even a sudden infant death syndrome or SIDS when exposure happens indoors around infants.

A (17:22)

Holy hell. That's horrifying. This stuff is genuinely dangerous, though. This makes me want to fumigate my furniture. Not that there's any vape stuff on it. But still.

B (17:30)

But even that's tough. I mean, washing, vacuuming, even replacing your carpets doesn't always get rid of the residue.

A (17:38)

Yeah, and people think it's just flavored steam, basically. That's a powerful misconception. And I'm guessing it's not an accident. You know what won't explode in your pocket and take out half your face? The fine products and services that support this show. Because when we want to blow your mind, we don't mean literally. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Uplift. I spend a lot of time at a desk researching, writing, interviewing, answering emails and sitting all day. That catches up with you. My back feels it, my hips feel it, my brain feels it. That's why I love the all new uplift V3 standing desk. When I'm up, I'm sharper, I'm more focused. I don't end the day feeling like a folded lawn chair. The V3 is basically the leveled up version of their old V2 with a stronger, smarter frame. They redesigned the feet and reinforced the steel so the desk is super sturdy even when it's raised all the way up. Assembly takes minutes. The cable management is so important to me and the new Flex mount cable manager just keeps everything tidy. Plus, Uplift has more desktop styles and accessories than anything else. Mine is set up exactly how I want it. Everything in reach, everything clean, everything functional. It is the first desk that I've had that actually makes me want to be at my desk.

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A (19:08)

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A (20:07)

Right, y' all don't forget about our newsletter, Wee Bitwiser. It is very specific, actionable, and about a two minute read. It comes out every Wednesday. It's a great companion to the show. We're taking the tips and tricks from our show, digesting those and putting them in a newsletter. That's a light lift. Go and sign up@jordanharbinger.com News now back to Skeptical Sunday. All right, so my house is a chemical crime scene. My couch is addicted. My dog is secretly a nicotine sponge. And at this point, wouldn't it just be better to go back to cigarettes? I don't know.

B (20:37)

Not really.

A (20:38)

Okay.

B (20:39)

I mean, that's not exactly how it works. Cigarettes are still really bad. Vaping just exposes you to different harms. And the thing is, however you inhale it, nicotine does give you a temporary feeling of relief. There's this very small window where nicotine can lower stress, give you a focus boost and a quick dopamine hit. But the crash from nicotine comes really fast, which makes you want to take another drag or another hit. And that cycle actually increases stress overall. So the thing people think is calming them is making their anxiety worse. It's brutal.

A (21:17)

Sounds like every bad girlfriend I've ever had.

B (21:19)

All right, I thought I had anxiety. Turns out I was just in a crummy relationship.

A (21:24)

Right?

B (21:24)

But I mean, that's the reality of nicotine. It, it fuels anxiety and depression and over time it worsens mood disorders. So the links to this are stronger among teenagers. You know, teen vaping is a mental health trap.

A (21:40)

It seems like a step backwards. One minute everyone agrees that cigarettes are bad and smoking is on the decline, and then the next, every 16 year old in America has a USB stick filled with mango mist. How the hell did we get here seemingly overnight?

B (21:55)

I know. It really is A whiplash moment. But the first vape idea actually goes back almost 100 years to 1927, when an electric vaporizer was patented, but it never went to market. So then in the 1960s, this guy, Herbert Gilbert. I just like his name.

A (22:14)

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, he patented Herbie Gilb. Herbie Gilbert.

B (22:19)

He patented a smokeless cigarette, but no one really cared. It wasn't until 2003 that a Chinese pharmacist finally nailed it with a product called Ruyan, he developed after his dad died of lung cancer. His intentions were good, but yeah, he.

A (22:37)

And Herbie G didn't realize the smoky hell they had unleashed. I know.

B (22:42)

I don't think so. And vaping seems to have first made its way to the US around 2006. But the big explosion came with Juul in 2015. They had sleek designs, splashy social media ads, and youth friendly flavors that felt like they were designed by a candy chemistry. So the marketing was everything. It was sold as a cool tech product that's safer than smoking.

A (23:09)

So they just flooded the scene.

B (23:10)

I mean, it really did. And they made it discreet so teachers thought Juuls were USB sticks so kids could hide them in plain sight. Parents saw their kids charging them and just assumed it was homework.

A (23:22)

Right, okay, so, yeah, because you plug it into your computer. Meanwhile, little Jimmy's lungs are a chemical fruit salad.

B (23:28)

I know. And within months of Jules released, millions of teens were hooked.

A (23:33)

But wasn't Juul supposed to be about helping adults quit smoking? So how did it just go viral with kids?

B (23:39)

Yeah, well, I mean, that was the public line. The reality is most adults didn't quit. They just picked up a new habit. Meanwhile, Jewel was advertising on Nickelodeon and the Cartoon Network. Dude, I. Yeah, I mean, it was before, you know, regulations got to them. And so the teen market scale skyrocketed. The company's profits, which got the attention of big tobacco. And in 2018, tobacco giant Altria, who are the makers of Marlboro products, they swooped in and bought a 35% stake of Juul for about $13 billion.

A (24:15)

Oh, my God. 13 billion? Holy crap. How did that turn out, by the way? Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network accepting that money is shamefully disgusting.

B (24:24)

They could have been duped too. I don't. Who knows what was happening? It's very deceptive.

A (24:28)

I don't know. I'm just thinking like, you're. You're buying ads on that's so Raven or something, right? And you're like, no, no, no. It's a tool for adults to quit smoking. And there's adults watching this with their teenage kids and something. Here's the money.

B (24:42)

Ask mom and dad before going in the smoke shop.

A (24:45)

I just. I don't buy it. I think they didn't give a shit. That's what I think.

B (24:49)

But somebody did. It didn't go well for these companies, and regulators did crack down. Lawsuits piled up, and Jules, value tanked. By 2023, Altria traded its stake for Juul's intellectual property rights, meaning it walked away with Juul's patents, making Juul independent again. But Altria still profited from the technology.

A (25:13)

Wow. So let me get this straight. Big Tobacco tried to buy into Big Vape. It blew up in their face kind of like a lava flavored volcano. A vape. Like an actual vape cartridge itself. And they walked away with the patents anyway, which is a capitalistic fairy tale. Unbelievable.

B (25:27)

I know. Yeah. And now Altria owns multiple vape brands like Njoy, Vuze, Logic, plus stakes in others like Plume and Swick.

A (25:38)

They all sound like sex toys that are only legal in Southeast Asia. All the branding is so corny.

B (25:44)

So they pretty much said, fine, if we can't own Juul, we'll just own everything else. You know, they're making sure they control the nicotine market, whether you're smoking, vaping, or both. Or even trying to quit. Yeah. Altria owns Zinn Pouch, which is supposed to help you quit.

A (26:02)

Oh, my gosh. So, breaking news. Your healthier alternative to Marlboro's is owned by Marlboro.

B (26:07)

Right? Which means they're raking in the profits. And the vaping industry is now worth about $30 billion globally. In the US alone, the profits are projected to be about $10 billion this year, which means they're able to put hundreds of millions into advertising on social media through influencers. You know, they're paying people with millions of followers to just casually vape in their posts. They're not even commercials.

A (26:35)

They've tried to do this with me. Like, hey, do you vape? Would you vape on your show and then talk about the fl? And I'm like, no, not only that. Like, no, no. I use my voice for a living. You think I want to be inhaling this toxic shite? No, sir.

B (26:50)

Are you more responsible for even one person getting hooked?

A (26:53)

Oh, my gosh, yeah. Oh, I really love banana berry. You know, dog fart vapes, they're so good. Mmm. It's like, it's not an ad. It's just there in your face. That's the thing is they try to Be sneaky with it. It's not just like, do this read for vapes. It's like, use it so that people see you using it and then think it's cool. Which, by the way, not sure how that works. Ask my kids, you know, do daddy does. Is that cool? So anyway, I probably shouldn't shite on myself that hard, but like it's. They're sneaky about it deliberately and I just hate it. I can't stand it.

B (27:25)

Right, and your kid's favorite tiktoker who's doing some, you know, innocent room tour.

A (27:32)

Yeah, here's my studio, guys. Oh, there's my trusty vape in the corner there, right?

B (27:36)

Yeah. Oh, look, there's a vape on the table. How organic. And at the same time, the CDC estimates that youth vaping costs the US healthcare system billions of dollars from related illnesses and ER visits.

A (27:51)

So we're spending money, we taxpayers are spending money to clean up the mess that companies are making billions of dollars in creating. That's a pretty perfect closed loop capitalist nightmare again. You know, I love capitalism. Biggest engine for upward mobility in human history. Sometimes there's externalities like this that just don't. Yuck. Plus the marketing, it looks like it' a candy store. That's the other thing. Right. It's bright colors, flavors with ridiculous names that I will continue to make fun of on this episode. It just doesn't scream, hey, this is for middle aged smokers trying to quit. If I'm a 45 year old dude and I'm trying to quit smoking, I might go for mint, but I'm not going for fricking berry blast unicorn farts. I'm just not doing that.

B (28:33)

Right, right. That probably exists. I don't think you're too far off. And that's intentional. You know, Juul pioneered the look, but disposable vapes took it to a whole nother level. Now you've got brands with flavors that sound like cocktails or crayon colors. And they're everywhere. Gas stations, smoke shops, seven elevens, and all over social media.

A (28:56)

I was just doing some research for another episode that's coming out in a few months and it made me wonder if there's pumpkin spice latte vape. Certainly there is. That flavor is special for certain reasons, which I will disclose in that episode.

B (29:08)

The marketing team would be fools not to have that.

A (29:10)

Right? Yes. In the social media with the subliminal vaping promotions that just like. It just makes me angry. It really does.

B (29:17)

Well, it's not always that Subtle though. You know, kids are posting vape trick videos all the time. They're blowing rings, tornadoes, jellyfish clouds. They're turning vaping into a performance art. And so social media glamorizes it as a skillful, trendy, shareable thing. It's some of the best free advertising.

A (29:39)

For vape products, addiction content on an addictive platform, which is, I mean, how meta is that? No pun intended. That makes me worry about my kids. Like they're a long way off from teenage stuff, but it's gonna happen in the blink of an eye. I'm very familiar with this and it's like maybe there's technical solutions so I can see what they're watching on their phones or maybe limit what they're doing online, which I, I hope they can't easily get around, which they probably can't. But then like what they put in their body, it's tougher, you know, like, how am I going to know that they've got a vape disguised as a whatever or something they keep at school? I'm not dumb enough to think that I'm smart enough to catch my kids doing stuff. When I pulled the wool over my parents eyes on many harmless, relatively harmless things.

B (30:23)

Of course we all go through it. Maybe they'll have, you know, robots that can vape for them or something.

A (30:29)

Oh my God.

B (30:31)

But it kind of seems like parents, sorry to you, but it sort of seems like you don't stand a chance.

A (30:37)

No, I agree. That's part of the reason I won't spread this crap to other people's kids. I just. Because why am I working against you? We need to be working together anyway. Yeah, parents don't stand a chance. It's. This is easier to hide than cigarettes, right? If you smoke a cigarette in the house, anywhere, you will smell it a week later in every room. Right? But if you vape, you can kind of like blow that into your pillowcase and no one's gonna notice the slight resid of strawberry shortcake in the corner of a little girl's room.

B (31:05)

Oh gosh, that really just depressed me.

A (31:08)

Yeah, like how do you even know if your kid is vaping? Are there, are there? What do I look for?

B (31:13)

Vapes do have a smell. And so it's something I think we're becoming more familiar with. Even the so called nicotine free varieties. But besides the smell, vapes increase your thirst. So if you notice that change in your kid, you might raise an eyebrow. They make you irritable when you can't vape because it's so addictive. And you'd see random USB chargers everywhere. You know, several schools have removed bathroom stall doors or exterior doors to cut down on vaping between classes.

A (31:47)

That is dystopian. Like, what if you have to poop? Just looking out for the poopers. What are you gonna do? How can we make the school bathroom even worse? Okay, I've read about students stuff vaping because, again, the devices are so small. You can put it in your mouth and pretend like you're putting a gum in. Or, like your pencil. You pull your shirt up over your face and you just vape during class while you pretend you're reading. And no one's gonna see the smoke come out. And then it's like something smells faintly of blueberry. Which one of you is it? And the answer is, like, half the class.

B (32:16)

I know. And our teachers have a lot of other things.

A (32:20)

Yeah, they shouldn't even have to police this nonsense. Like, okay, your kid's on drugs. I'm not doing about it because I gotta teach math to a bunch of kids that don't even want to be here.

B (32:28)

Right. I wonder if they figured out the stealth trick when they're all wearing masks during the pandemic, you know? Yeah, we gave them that opportunity, but.

A (32:37)

Exactly.

B (32:38)

There are now vape detectors commonly used especially in schools and other public buildings. So they detect particulate matter in the air. So my advice here is if your habit sets off actual alarms, maybe think about quitting.

A (32:57)

Yeah. It must have taken parents in schools a while to catch on, because parents in schools are not exactly. Especially schools, public schools, they're not exactly, like, on all this stuff because they have so many other things they have to do with all the money they don't have. And so like, to have vape alarms installed. I mean, I just. That must have taken, like, forever, right? Yeah.

B (33:16)

I mean, you would have to be in a affluent district, probably. But There was a 2023 study in a journal called Tobacco Control and that found that media framed vaping in two extremes. So it was either presented as a miracle quit tool for adults or this really horrible youth epidemic. And that dual framing confused parents and policymakers. I mean, it still does.

A (33:43)

So one headline says, vaping saves lives, and the next day it says, bubblegum vape kills your child. So, of course parents are confused. Where's the FDA in all this? Does the FDA even exist still?

B (33:53)

I don't even know they are behind, that's for sure. FDA has authorized only a handful of products in limited flavors, like tobacco and menthol but thousands of unauthorized disposables flood the market. If you walk into a store, most of those probably aren't supposed to be on the shelves. And many are manufactured overseas and sold illegally in the US as tech products. And the FDA just can't keep up with the enforcement.

A (34:24)

Yeah, that's interesting. There are smoke shop. There's a smoke shop next to my barbershop. I never go in there, but I see, like the sketchiest of characters going in and out of that place, basically. And it doesn't smell like tobacco and menthol. It smells like a bunch of crazy fruits all mixed together. You know, like chemical fruits all mixed together. So there's no way that they only have tobacco and menthol flavors in that place.

B (34:48)

Yeah. And I mean, the FDA is pretty much playing a game of regulatory whack a mole. So kids are buying products designed to look like highlighters or toys. You know, even school supplies that are sold as things called tanks or pods. You know, they're not labeled as a vape or an E cigarette.

A (35:06)

Yeah. So the market innovating faster than regulators can act as a tale as old as time. But highlighter vapes, I mean, that is so offensively obvious that the hidden highlighter thing is so kids can bring it to school undetected.

B (35:18)

I know. Are kids running these companies for real? You know, I mean, they literally look like school supplies. And they're often manufactured in China, smuggled into the US and sold without approval. And they often contain even higher nicotine levels than legal products.

A (35:35)

The following products and services are probably legal even in Singapore. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Shopify. Every January, I get this little spark, you know, the feeling you're suddenly convinced you're going to reorganize your whole life. You're going to start a new habit, maybe even finally launch that business idea you've been sitting on for, like, you know, longer than intended. And then, if you're not careful, February rolls around. Nothing's changed except your gym attendance. So here's my pitch. 2026 is the year you actually launch the thing. If you want to rewrite your story, own your time, and actually build something you care about, the most powerful move you can make is starting your business with Shopify. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap from big names you recognize to the guy next door. What I love is how simple Shopify makes the first step. They give you hundreds of beautiful templates you can customize so your store looks like your brand right out of the gate. Setup is fast too. Shopify even has built in AI tools to write product descriptions, headlines, help you edit product photos. And once you launch, use Shopify's built in marketing tools so you can create email campaigns, social posts, all the stuff that helps customers actually find you. And as your business grows, Shopify grows with you. Handle more orders, expand into new markets, add products all from the same dashboard.

C (36:46)

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A (37:06)

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A (38:12)

I've Got Homes.com is a sponsor for this episode. Homes.com knows what when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or the condo. It's about the homes. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location. It's the neighborhood. If you got kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks, transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home. It's so hard not to say home every single time. And when I say in depth information, I'm talking Deep. Each listing features comprehensive information about the neighborhood, complete with a video guide. They also have details about local schools with test scores, state rankings, student teacher ratio. They even have an agent directory with the sales history of each agent. So when it comes to finding a home, not just a house, this is everything you need to know, all in1place.homes.com. we've done your homework. Thank you so much for listening to and supporting the show. Your support of our sponsors keeps the lights on around here. Keeps me flush with mulberry mint vape cartridges. To learn more and get links to all the discounts you hear on the show so you can get the deals for yourself. Check out jordanharbinger.com deals now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. The telltale sign is when the class, loser, slacker, whatever, has like three different highlighters and you're like, wow. Timmy's taking algebra pretty seriously.

B (39:32)

Yeah.

A (39:32)

Wow. Look at that. So your pencil case is now a nicotine cartel. Terrific. I mean, that's gross.

B (39:38)

I mean, that's the reality. Reports estimate illegal vaping products make up a huge chunk of the US market.

A (39:45)

Is anybody even going after these illegal sales somehow? I mean, how do you even do that? There's probably a ton of money.

B (39:51)

Yeah. I mean, there have been lawsuits against e cigarette companies, primarily Juul, for illegal sales, marketing to underage users, and misleading consumers about health risks. So significant settlements have happened, including one by Juul, for over a billion dollars to many states to fund prevention programs and address the youth vaping crisis.

A (40:16)

Is it the same in other countries? You mentioned Singapore, who's. You know, they're notoriously strict. You can't even get gum there or whatever. But how else is it being handled elsewhere?

B (40:23)

So the UK regulates some nicotine vapes as medical quit tools, but they ban youth focused marketing and flavors similar in New Zealand. Canada implemented a maximum nicotine concentration. Australia requires prescriptions for nicotine vapes. Wow. And China only allows tobacco flavored products domestically.

A (40:47)

So wait, China manufactures flavored vapes for the world market but does not sell them domestically? That says it all.

B (40:55)

China. Yeah, I mean, that's right. In 2022, China banned the sale of flavored vapes, but still exports them internationally.

A (41:06)

Mainly to the US So China took one look at what they were making and they were like, oh, hell no, not our kids. And then they shipped them all to America. That's just incredible. We're literally importing products that other countries have deemed too dangerous for their own populations.

B (41:19)

Right.

A (41:19)

Crazy.

B (41:19)

And what's more incredible is that countries that have Implemented strict regulations do see positive results. Vaping rates in Europe, where they crack down on youth marketing, are significantly lower than in the US Australia's prescription model keeps vaping numbers very low. It's under 2% of their teens that vape. And when New Zealand banned most flavored vapes, their youth vaping rates dropped over 25% in two years. So the playbook works. Plain packaging, flavor restrictions, age verification, marketing bans. Now, when you actually enforce these measures, fewer people will vape. It's not rocket science, it's just regulation.

A (42:06)

That's a big contrast between vaping laws here and in other countries. Wow. So other countries saw the problem, came up with a solution, and here in the States, we're like freedom free market. The US Is one of the most chaotic markets. This is crazy.

B (42:17)

And America has. Has huge loopholes. We have weak enforcement and constant new products that know how to skirt any new regulation.

A (42:27)

Okay, but if the FDA hasn't authorized them, how are they still everywhere? Enforcement.

B (42:32)

Yeah, well, it's an enforcement gap. You know, the FDA doesn't have the resources to keep up, and companies launch new flavors and designs faster than regulators can respond.

A (42:44)

So the FDA is jogging behind, all out of breath. Maybe they should quit vaping.

B (42:47)

Yeah. Pretty much sums up the market marketing machine in a nutshell, though.

A (42:52)

Yeah.

B (42:52)

You know, and meanwhile, the numbers tell their own story. In 2023, about six and a half percent of U.S. adults vaped. Among 21 to 24 year olds, it was over 15%. And among high schoolers, use seemed to decline in 2024 to about 6%. But that's still more than 800,000 children vaping.

A (43:18)

800,000 kids. That's like every marching band in America hitting a vape cloud time. Gross.

B (43:23)

God. And one in four American high school boys reported trying it at least once.

A (43:30)

So the cigarette alternative just became another category of nicotine delivery entirely.

B (43:35)

Yes, and vaping those aerosols, like I said, it irritates and inflames your lungs and blood vessels, it raises your heart rate, your blood pressure, and it's just delivering a very high addicto dose of nicotine. All this sets the stage for asthma, copd, heart attack and stroke.

A (43:55)

You're starting to sound like the warning voice on pharmaceutical ads. You know, may cause headaches, nausea, uncontrollable diarrhea, sudden death.

B (44:01)

Like, that's another thing America does is we advertise pharmaceuticals. Most countries don't.

A (44:07)

No, almost. I think the only other country that does is New Zealand, and they have a ton of restrictions, right yeah, it's bizarre.

B (44:12)

We are a strange place, but it's true. I mean, am I the only one who remembers when the Marlboro man died of lung cancer? And it's not just cancer. When nicotine raises heart rate and blood pressure, it makes many cardiovascular problems worse.

A (44:30)

So the so called safer alternative is just. It's an unregulated health crisis.

B (44:35)

Right. And it's not just the nicotine. Illegal disposables have been found containing acrolein, which is a chemical that damages the lungs. And then there's other heavy metals that harm the cardiovascular system. And we don't even fully know the long term risks yet. You know, cigarettes took decades before we had the hard cancer data. With vaping, we're less than 20 years in, but already seeing concerning signs.

A (45:02)

Harmful consequences really shouldn't surprise anyone here. But what are we seeing actually, specifically?

B (45:07)

So animal studies show common vape ingredients increase lung tumors. And case reports have linked those tasty vape juices to aggressive stomach cancers, as well as lung cancer and severe lung injuries. And because nicotine suppresses the immune system, it may make it harder for your body to fight off cancer cells of any kind.

A (45:32)

So vaping is like cancer's hype, man.

B (45:34)

Yeah, great.

A (45:35)

But at every party I hear it's like, hey, man, it's better than smoking. No, it isn't, apparently. Well, maybe. I don't know.

B (45:41)

I mean, I guess technically you might be able to say that, but that would be a really weird hill to die on. Sure. Cigarettes contain more carcinogens because of combustion, and vaping has fewer of those. But it doesn't mean vaping is harmless. It's just a different kind of harm. You're just swapping out combustion for chemicals. So there's still health risks. You've just been fooled by marketing.

A (46:06)

And vape pens are machines. Don't these things blow up? Or is that just kind of like Florida headline stuff?

B (46:12)

It happens. In 2017, there was a famous story about a man in Idaho. He had his vape pen explode in his mouth.

A (46:20)

Dang.

B (46:21)

He lost seven teeth. He suffered burns to his face. And that's not an isolated incident. So others have had pockets catch on fire from battery explosions. There are definitely different concerns than a cigarette pocket.

A (46:37)

Pipe bombs, man. Have vapes ever killed anyone directly from something like this?

B (46:40)

They have. There was a really big scare in 2019 with what was called the evali outbreak. Evali stands for e cigarette or vaping associated lung injury.

A (46:52)

Yeah, it's a mouthful.

B (46:53)

Yeah. Or lungful.

A (46:55)

Yeah, I should have Thought of that.

B (46:56)

The CDC traces most cases of evali to elicit THC cartridges that are cut with vitamin E acetate. It cause severe and sometimes fatal lung damage. Dozens of people died. Thousands were hospitalized.

A (47:13)

I do remember that. It was like, why are all these people dying and they've got vapes? And then it was like, oh, my God. And it was like, oh, they have vapes. That looks like they made or something or someone made.

B (47:22)

It was a chemistry experiment and they mixed the wrong things together.

A (47:26)

So it wasn't every vape, just specific weed ones?

B (47:28)

It seems to be, yeah. And it's just. But it revealed how dangerous this unregulated market is. So some of those cartridges also had heavy metals, even synthetic cannabinoids, which we've discussed how problematic they can be when we did the CBD episode. And pesticides.

A (47:47)

Pesticides and my vape.

B (47:49)

I know.

A (47:50)

Wow.

B (47:50)

Yeah. Some manufacturing processes introduce harmful pesticides into the vape liquid.

A (47:57)

But this doesn't happen with nicotine vapes or.

B (47:59)

No, it does. These toxins are in both weed and nicotine vapes. Yes.

A (48:04)

So the nicotine vapes can explode too?

B (48:06)

Oh, yeah, they definitely can. Most commonly from faulty batteries or overcharging, though it wasn't because of the chemical mixture. So typically not when using them, usually when they're plugged in and charging.

A (48:19)

So there definitely are freak accidents. It's like Wile E. Coyote designed these things. It's crazy. Acme vapes.

B (48:25)

Yeah. The difference between nicotine and weed vapes isn't the technology, but cannabis vapes come with their own additional risks.

A (48:34)

I know people who say, like, oh, I don't do nicotine, I just vape weed and that's better.

B (48:38)

They're mistaken. It's not their fault, but they're wrong. So first, the THC concentrations are much higher than traditional pot smoking. And that increases the risk of anxiety, paranoia, even psychosis, especially in young people whose brains are still developing.

A (48:56)

So instead of being mellow, you get candy coated paranoia. Fun.

B (49:00)

That's probably a vape flavor. Yeah, pretty much. You know, physically, cannabis vapes cause wheezing and respiratory problems more than the nicotine ones. And a University of Michigan study found adolescent cannabis vapors reported more lung issues than tobacco smokers or nicotine vapors.

A (49:20)

So weed vapes are actually worse for the lungs than cigarettes. That's not a good market marketing pitch.

B (49:25)

Right, but that's the risk. And better alternatives for cannabis are edibles, tinctures, or in my very unpopular opinion, not using at all. There's this social Perception that weed is safer to vape or smoke because it's natural. And that's just not the case. This does not make nicotine better to vape. Nicotine alone can impair adolescent brain development until around age 25. It changes how neural circuits form, which affects memory, attention and increases addiction risk. That's why, especially for young people, there's just no amount of nicotine that's safe.

A (50:04)

And you said products marketed as nicotine free often contain nicotine. But we can. Can we feel better about vaping the ones that are truly nicotine free or. Or no?

B (50:14)

No. A study this year exposed pregnant mice to vape liquids with zero nicotine and just the base chemicals of propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin. Their offspring were born smaller with narrower skulls and bone changes.

A (50:34)

Wait, vaping reshaped the skulls of baby mice? That's gross.

B (50:38)

Is that insane? Yeah, and it shows. These so called harmless carriers are not harmless. And if you're pregnant vaping of any kind, it's just a hard no.

A (50:50)

Yeah. This is such a long way from hey man, it's just water vapor to might literally change the skull of your baby. God, the baby's head shape. And yet people are still using these things, literally by the millions. My man. My lungs are inflamed just listening to this. But let's give people something hopeful. If somebody listening right now has a vape in their pocket that hasn't exploded yet or in their mouth. How do you actually quit this stuff?

B (51:15)

Well, I mean, first you need a plan. These are highly addictive machines with highly addictive substances. Truth Initiative has campaigns specifically designed around this.

A (51:28)

Truth Initiative, that's the organization that makes all the anti smoking ads with the dead bodies and stuff, right?

B (51:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (51:33)

You.

B (51:33)

Some people might remember the ad campaign where they unloaded more than a thousand body bags on the steps of Philip Morris headquarters. That was sort of what put them on the map. Right, but they have put out lots of anti smoking campaigns with the goal of ending smoking. They're more than an ad company. They have targeted programs to help people quit. So for adults, nicotine replacement therapy is recommended, like patches, gum, lozenges, or prescription medications. So pair that with behavioral support like quit lines or counseling for a combination that actually works long term. It's really hard to quit.

A (52:14)

But let's be real. Come on. Teenagers are not slapping on nicotine patches or scheduling zoom calls with quit coaches. What about them? It's gotta. You gotta have a cool way to quit that replaces the habit somehow.

B (52:25)

I mean, that's where programs like Truth's Vaping know the truth come in. It's a free digital curriculum that helps teens understand the risks of vaping. And teens who enroll are 35% more likely to quit using nicotine. They also have something called the X program, which is designed by Truth initiative with the Mayo Clinic. So anyone can text ditch it D I t c h I t to 88709 and get personalized coaching and community support. Over 750,000 young people have used it and clinical trials show it boosted quit rates on by 40%. So give them something to text and it's more successful.

A (53:12)

Wow, that sounds like ditch it anyway. That's. You're not supposed to laugh at your own jokes, Jordan.

B (53:23)

I approve. I approve.

A (53:25)

It's not just about shaming kids. It's about helping them. That was so dumb, even for me. It's about helping them out of the trap, giving them actual tools. And so that's actually awesome. I'm glad that that's working. Working. Something has to work.

B (53:37)

Yeah. We need to approach it differently than just being mad at these kids for succumbing to these billion dollar companies. Right. Punishment doesn't work. Demonizing kids does nothing. You suspending a teen for vaping, it's just not addressing the issue. So education, resources and compassion are more successful to keep kids off nicotine. You have to meet them where they are and make quitting possible. So Truth's text program, this is quitting. It's reached over 500,000 teens. And we'll link to the Truth programs and their great ads in the show notes.

A (54:14)

I like that because the industry has billions of dollars and armies of marketers. You can't just yell at kids and expect them to beat an addiction to Blue Raz, Icy bong, hit, armpit vape or whatever with sheer willpower. It's not going to happen.

B (54:29)

You're giving them ideas up?

A (54:31)

Yeah, giving him a whole new lineup of new flavors.

B (54:35)

And teens get addicted to vapes faster than adults due to their still developing brains, which are more sensitive to nicotine's reward effects and have a less developed prefrontal cortex that controls impulses.

A (54:49)

And do you think those nicotine replacement tools work for adults?

B (54:53)

There is a high success rate, so they release nicotine more slowly and at lower doses. The big thing is they don't reinforce the addictive inhaling behavior and they're meant to taper off. So unlike vapes, they're designed to end addiction, not maintain it.

A (55:11)

Yeah. Patches are so boring though. Not Quite the cool image as smoking or vaping at the party. So the bottom line is nicotine replacement therapy is for adults trying to quit. And for kids, prevention and support are the better routes.

B (55:24)

Right? Right. The verdict is that vaping is not safe for anyone. So for adults, it may have a role in quitting cigarettes, if that's the intention. But only with a plan to quit vaping too, which that's hard, Right? And for kids, it's just a hard no, don't let a USB stick run your dopamine schedule.

A (55:44)

And this isn't just about individual willpower. These devices are.

B (55:48)

Come on.

A (55:49)

They're engineered by billion dollar corporations to be as addictive as possible. It's not some kind of personal failing. Right. This is corporate design. They're using your psychology against you. And they have all the resources in the world to do that.

B (56:01)

Right. And they're just so good at it.

A (56:03)

Yeah.

B (56:04)

That's why regulation, policy and public health campaigns matter so much. People can't fight billion dollar marketing machines on willpower alone. Vaping's not harmless. Don't be the guinea pig in Big Tobacco's, you know, newest science experiment.

A (56:21)

Yeah. What gets me the most, man, is we've been here before. We did this dance with cigarettes for 50 freaking years. The lies, the targeted marketing to kids, the bought off scientists, the lawsuits, the slow ride to the truth with them fighting us at every turn. And we paid for that with millions of lives. And somehow we're just letting it happen again with kids, just with a different delivery system and better branding.

B (56:44)

Yeah, I know. I mean, talk about living and growing up in a crazy house. I had a poster of Joe Camel in my.

A (56:53)

Wow, that's like freaking crazy.

B (56:56)

But you know, maybe it's the optimist in me. But we know what works. We see it in other countries like China and New Zealand. There's strong regulation, there's flavor bans, age verification, marketing restrictions. So educational campaigns that don't condescend to young people, but actually give them the tools they need. So these programs like Truth Initiative aren't just making scary ass. They're giving people real support and real resources. And it's working. Those 40% higher quit rates, that's real. That's lives saved. Futures not derailed by addiction and medical bills.

A (57:34)

These tobacco and vape corporations are predators and we are all their prey. If you're a parent like me, the best thing we can do is talk to our kids. Really talk to them. Make sure they know these companies are out to make them a customer for life. Let them know the temptation has affected all of us. We're here to help them fight the pressure to vape. So no judgment toward my vaping listeners, but you can quit, folks. There are people who want to help you. And if you need help quitting, check out the X Program Truth Initiative and all the resources we've mentioned here on the show. Text ditch it to 88709. Don't let a flavored machine write your obituary. And for the love of God, keep that watermelon berry mint cloud out of my face. Thanks everyone for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday can come directly to me. Jordanordanharbinger.com, advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show. Searchable and clickable on the website@jordanharbinger.com deals I'm ordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her sub stacks. That's plural. One is called between the lines and the other one is where shadows Linger and we'll link to that in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Gabriel Mizrahi in there somewhere. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer lawyer. Also, we of course we try to get these episodes. We try to get them as right as we can. Not everything is gospel, even if it's fact checked. So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well being. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. Maybe you know somebody who vapes. They would love this one. Or maybe they wouldn't, but you can share it with them anyway. In the meantime time, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. Behind the spectacle of pro sports lies a multi billion dollar shadow economy built on exploitation and corruption. In this preview, Chris Dalby unpacks how global crime syndicates have infiltrated the games we love.

D (59:40)

Everybody who's a hardcore sports fan has engaged with how organized crime is moving into sports in really worrying ways and have been for a long time. Multiple sponsors of top European soccer teams including champions of the Premier League in England. So some of the most wealthiest sports properties in the world have had shirt sponsors that are linked to organized crime. Illegal betting is worth US$1.7 trillion a year. Sports is one of the main vectors for human trafficking. There are tens of thousands of kids. Not okay. All over Europe, increasingly in the Middle east, increasingly in Asia. And in the US they're either in soccer prison camps, depending on how organized it is. And these kids were from Kazakhstan, Costa Rica, Congo. In the US it's soccer increasingly, but it's basketball. Kids from Africa being promised NBA trials, it's baseball, Dominican Republic, Venezuelan kids being promised careers in the mlb, and they're being milled. And no one pays attention to it because sport has this magic reputation.

A (60:37)

But at the heart of it, why.

D (60:39)

I do what I do, why we have the sports and crime briefing. We've also created, created the first fact checking platform for sports called Free to Play. I'd just like kids who want to play football to not be trafficked, please. Or to not be scammed and bankrupt their family and no one's looking out for them. And that's what scares me. When the footballing authorities, when the sports authorities say, we're about the kids, we're about helping everybody. You've proven that you're not. So please up your game. This is genuinely one of the most innovative criminal threats you've seen in years.

A (61:08)

Catch the full episode on how organized crime quietly runs the business of modern Sports on episode 1204 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.