1267: Rhonda Patrick | Protecting Your Brain and Body from Modern Life

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jordan Harbinger Show

Episode 1267: Rhonda Patrick | Protecting Your Brain and Body from Modern Life
Date: January 6, 2026
Guest: Dr. Rhonda Patrick (FoundMyFitness)

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Main Theme

This episode centers on actionable strategies to protect the brain and body from “modern life” threats, including microplastics, screen time, micronutrient deficiencies, and misleading health trends. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, a scientist known for distilling biochemistry into practical advice, joins Jordan Harbinger to separate science from wellness hype, offer evidence-based health insights, and share practical steps for long-term well-being.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Screen Time, Technology, and Children's Mental Health

• Screen Addiction & Hyperstimulation

  • Kids are drawn to screens for their hyper-stimulating, dopamine-driven feedback, which can hinder their enjoyment of real-life activities like play and learning.
  • Social media’s comparison culture disproportionately harms girls, increasing risk for depression and eating disorders.
    • “Screens and phones are the new smoking.” — Dr. Patrick, [14:38]

• Family & Community Strategies

  • Dr. Patrick suggests collaborating with parents to delay smartphone exposure and favor traditional landlines or “dumb” phones for communication among kids ([06:28]).
  • Devices like Tin Can allow kids to call only approved contacts—minimizing social media risk.

• YouTube Kids & Content Monitoring

  • Algorithms often serve undesirable or non-educational videos, and harmful content can slip through. Effective parental control is difficult.
    • “I'm fighting a war against YouTube Kids...where they don't even talk, they're just doing action things.” — Jordan, [09:49]

• New Health Risks Associated with Screen Time

  • Research links early high screen time (ages 2–3) to later sensory processing issues and mental health challenges ([13:00]).
  • Dr. Patrick compares screen hyperstimulation to hyper-palatable processed foods—kids often prefer both over healthier alternatives.

Microplastics: What We Know & What Matters

• Prevalence and Impact

  • Microplastics are everywhere: water, air, food, and even products like gum and canned drinks.
  • Microplastics (and even smaller nanoplastics) are absorbed into the body and detected in organs including the brain, placenta, and testes.
    • “There have been a variety of studies now that have found microplastics in everything from placenta, testes, kidneys, heart, brain.” — Dr. Patrick, [21:01]
  • Dogs and humans alike are universally exposed.

• Water as a Major Source

  • Tap and bottled water contain significant microplastic loads.
  • Reverse osmosis filters are most effective; even carbon filters are helpful ([20:07]).
    • “Water, tap water, is a major source of the microplastics that we ingest...the most effective thing you can do is get a filter, drink filtered water.” — Dr. Patrick, [20:07]

• Health Consequences

  • Animal studies suggest microplastics cause neuroinflammation, correlated with Alzheimer’s in humans.
    • “Microplastics have been shown to cause inflammation...you end up getting this vicious cycle of low grade inflammation in the brain which is known to cause dementia and Alzheimer's.” — Dr. Patrick, [28:39]
  • Small nanoplastics are especially risky for absorption and reaching critical organs.

• Chemicals in Plastics

  • Plastics leach endocrine disruptors (e.g., BPA, BPS) linked to hormonal, developmental, and cancer risks.
  • While it’s nearly impossible to avoid all exposures, practical reductions matter.

• Practical Steps for Reduction

  • Reverse osmosis or carbon water filters.
  • HEPA filters for home air.
  • Avoid hot drinks in paper/plastic-lined cups.
  • Switch from tea bags to loose-leaf tea ([38:04]).
  • Use glass or stainless containers (though be aware of plastic linings, such as in cans).
  • Opt for “plastic-free” gum.
  • Increase dietary soluble fiber to prevent microplastic absorption ([22:43]): Fruits, vegetable skins, inulin supplements can bind and eliminate microplastics via stool.

• “Plastic-Free” vs. “BPA-Free” Misconceptions

  • BPA-free may just mean substituted with BPS, which has similar health risks ([42:25]).
  • Most chewing gum is plastic-based unless specifically labeled “plastic-free”.

Micronutrients, Multivitamins & Brain Aging

• Shifting Science on Multivitamins

  • Recent large RCTs (“COSMOS studies”) show that daily multivitamin use in older adults delays brain aging by about two years, improves cognition, and slows episodic memory decline ([47:09]).
    • “What was found was that individuals given the multivitamin...delayed brain aging by 2.1 years compared to the placebo group.” — Dr. Patrick, [47:29]
    • Expensive urine narrative is outdated.

• Micronutrient Deficiency is Widespread

  • Significant proportions of the population lack magnesium, calcium, vitamin A, and vitamin C.
  • Even with good diets, soil depletion and food sourcing make it hard to cover all needs.

• Supplementation Recommendations

  • Centrum Silver (used in trials) is a broadly available but basic option.
  • Dr. Patrick prefers brands like Pure Encapsulations and Thorne, which offer higher bioavailability and testing for contaminants ([51:23]).
  • Micronutrients that usually require additional supplementation:
    • Magnesium: Most people are deficient; citrate, malate, glycinate, or threonate forms are recommended ([54:52]).
    • CoQ10: Especially for those on statin meds; look for ubiquinol for better absorption ([57:09]).

Exercise for Brain & Longevity

• Vigorous Exercise Critical for Healthspan

  • Vigorous activity (HIIT or “exercise snacks”—short, intense bursts) is vastly more effective for lowering mortality than moderate activity ([63:09], [66:50]):
    • 1 min of vigorous exercise = 4 mins of moderate for the same cardiovascular benefit.
    • Any “snack” that raises heart rate (e.g., sprinting stairs) counts.
    • “Vigorous exercise is definitely the king when it comes to reducing cardiovascular mortality, when it comes to all cause mortality, and slightly even more with cancer related mortality as well.” — Dr. Patrick, [67:10]

• Cognitive Benefits

  • Brief vigorous exercise immediately improves reaction and processing speed, and over time, increases hippocampal brain mass (the memory center) in older adults ([70:59]).
    • “Those older adults that were in the exercise group, not only did they not lose the 2% hippocampal region, they gained 1 to 2%...they were increasing the growth of new neurons.” — Dr. Patrick, [71:01]
  • Exercise stimulates BDNF (brain derived neurotrophic factor), key for neuroplasticity and mood.

Creatine: Not Just for Muscles

• Brain Benefits of Creatine

  • Recent research supports 10g/day (not the standard 5g) for brain saturation and benefit ([75:00]).
    • Helps during stress (cognitive or sleep deprivation).
    • Dr. Patrick takes 10g daily for cognitive stamina and swears by higher doses as a jetlag fix.
    • “If I take 10 grams a day, I don't get afternoon sleepiness at all.” — Dr. Patrick, [77:34]

• Supplementation Tips

  • Stick with creatine monohydrate (not gummies—most have zero real creatine, [79:34]).
  • Look for NSF-certified brands (Dr. Patrick uses Thorne for purity).
  • Powder is best, but capsules work if powder taste/texture is intolerable (high daily dose may require many capsules).

• Creatine Also Helps Free Up Methyl Donors, critical for gene regulation/epigenetics.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Screens and phones are the new smoking.” — Dr. Rhonda Patrick, [14:38]
• “Once it gets into your circulation, that’s the point of no return... they go to organs, they accumulate in organs.” — Dr. Patrick, [20:57]
• “I didn’t realize water was...the huge vector.” — Jordan, [29:41]
• “It is almost safer to eat a credit card than to ingest the equivalent in nanoplastics.” — Paraphrasing Dr. Patrick, [32:21]
• “If you see ‘BPA Free,’ it doesn’t mean it’s safe.” — Dr. Patrick, [42:25]
• On multivitamins: “Who doesn’t want to delay global brain aging by two years and episodic memory aging by five?” — Dr. Patrick, [50:08]
• “Vigorous intensity exercise is definitely the king when it comes to reducing cardiovascular mortality.” — Dr. Patrick, [67:10]
• “If I take 10 grams of creatine a day, I don’t get afternoon sleepiness at all.” — Dr. Patrick, [77:34]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [01:10] — Opening warning on screen time: “Screens are hyper-stimulating...screens and phones are the new smoking.”
• [06:28] — Practical approach: Delaying smartphones in childhood, forming parent groups, “Tin Can” phones.
• [13:00, 14:38] — Correlation of screen time to depression, sensory issues, and processed-food analogy.
• [18:51, 20:07] — Microplastics: sources, water filtering as critical intervention.
• [21:02] — Microplastic accumulation found in human organs.
• [22:43] — Fiber’s role in blocking microplastic/nanoplastic absorption.
• [28:39] — Microplastics causing neuroinflammation and possible link to Alzheimer’s.
• [38:04] — Hidden sources: coffee cups, tea bags, drink cans, and best practices for avoidance.
• [47:09] — Multivitamin studies: new data, practical use, and brain aging.
• [54:52] — Magnesium forms and importance; supplementation guidance.
• [63:09–68:32] — Vigorous exercise vs. moderate for healthspan; exercise ‘snacks’; cognitive benefits.
• [75:00] — Creatine: muscle vs. brain dosing, practical advice for supplementation.

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Actionable Takeaways

• For Parents: Delay smartphones, use “dumb” phones for contact, form alliances with like-minded families.
• For Everyone:
  • Install a reverse osmosis or carbon water filter.
  • Use HEPA air filters at home.
  • Minimize single-use plastic, canned, or plastic-lined food/drink packaging.
  • Focus on dietary fiber (fruits, especially peels; supplement if needed).
  • Switch to reputable “plastic-free” gum.
  • Resist hot drinks in paper/plastic-lined cups, opt for ceramic or glass.
  • Take a daily multivitamin (preferably a reputable, certified brand).
  • Supplement magnesium (prefer glycinate, citrate, malate, or threonate).
  • Supplement with omega-3 and vitamin D if not getting adequate amounts from diet/sun.
  • Add daily creatine monohydrate (10g) for cognitive and physical benefits.
  • Engage in short, vigorous exercise or “exercise snacks” multiple times per week.

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Tone

The conversation is candid, practical, and evidence-based, with a blend of scientific rigor and approachable humor. Both Jordan and Dr. Patrick acknowledge real-life challenges in health optimization while focusing on the importance of small, consistent improvements.

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Further Resources

• Dr. Rhonda Patrick: FoundMyFitness (podcast, newsletter)
• Supplement brands mentioned: Pure Encapsulations, Thorne
• For more episode info and show notes: JordanHarbinger.com

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This summary captures the critical content of the episode and empowers listeners (and non-listeners!) with the latest, actionable health insights from Dr. Rhonda Patrick.

Transcript

[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Show, screens are hyper stimulating. Ooh, this feels good. I want more of this versus go play or read a book. But once they like go out and play, they really enjoy it and they do learn a lot through playing. But like you said, you have to be there to watch them or someone has to be there to watch them. And so there is just this big issue with kids getting too much screen time and I just think there's going to be a lot of negative consequences. Screens and phones are the new smoking.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Our mission is to help you become.

[Jordan Harbinger]

A better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional rocket scientist, Hollywood filmmaker or special operator. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, social engineering, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today's guest is someone who does what almost nobody else in the health world does. She takes dense, intimidating biochemistry and turns it into stuff the rest of us can actually use to not die early and maybe even feel good in the process. Dr. Rhonda Patrick.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

You know her from Found My Fitness. She's the reason half the Internet suddenly thinks about magnesium and omega 3s and vitamin D before breakfast.

[Jordan Harbinger]

She's been digging into microplastics, micronutrients, sauna protocols, cold plunges, hit for your brain, cancer prevention, creatine for cognition.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Basically all the stuff that's either going.

[Jordan Harbinger]

To save your life or is just expensive pee. And she's here to help us separate the real science from the wellness hype. So let's get into it. What's legit, what is BS and what small practical changes actually move the needle? Here we go with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. I don't know how old you are. I'm 45.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

I don't want to talk about dating. I haven't wanted to talk about dating for a decade minimum.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

I'm in the same age group as you.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Also, like, I don't know about you, but how bloody irrelevant are we right.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Now in the dating?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like, if you had to teach someone how to date right now, can you use Tinder? I don't know anything about it.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

No, no, no.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I just know swipe left, swipe right. And I'm not even sure which one is which.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

It's so different. It used to be like, you go hang out at a place, the place was like, oh, you go and you practice talking to a girl. Or the girls are like, you're all dressed up and you look nice, whatever. And it's just so different now. It's like, swipe, yeah, swipe.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Actually, we had it better, though, Rhonda, because I will tell you, the people that write in now with their issues, they're just issues that, like, humans shouldn't.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Have, really, when dating, if you suddenly.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Found yourself single tomorrow, and I suddenly found myself single tomorrow, we could, like, go to a bar and talk to people. This new generation is like, why would.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

I ever do that? You might meet, like, three people.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm like, yeah, but you're meeting zero people. And they're like, no, I evaluated a thousand people while I was in line.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

At Starbucks or whatever, you know, like 20.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And I'm like, but you didn't. You just looked and saw if he was, like, 6ft tall and a lawyer.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And then you were like, no, but.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You have no idea what this person is like. And then you date all these guys that are six foot tall and lawyers, and they're all dickheads.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And you're like, why?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Why are they all dickheads? And I'm like, because the wrong criteria. You need to talk to somebody. And all these guys who are doing it are like, oh, man, she's not hot enough. Next. And I'm like, I don't know, she seems quirky and fun. And they're like, who cares? And I'm like, all of your ex girlfriends that you loved were quirky and fun. And you're. Now you're looking for bimbos on Tinder. Like, what are you doing? And it's because when you only have that one channel to go on, you can't measure things appropriately as a human. Like, we're just not evolved to look.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

At a picture and be like, this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Is going to work for me for.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

The rest of my life.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like, you can judge sexual attraction kind.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Of maybe a little bit. And then, like, that's it. That's all you got.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

And then you have to meet in person and, like, talk to them.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Yes. And then they can't do that because they're like, I'm just going to send you DMs on this thing until I get bored and uninstall it.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Well, that's a whole issue that we're going to deal with as our kids grow up and get to the age of adolescence and beyond.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

I'm terrified.

[Jordan Harbinger]

My son and I have a boy.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And a girl, 6 and 3. And I'm like, I am woefully unqualified to help you navigate this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like, give no clue.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

My advice to you is to, as your children get to, you know, first, second grade, you talk to the parents, and you guys have your group of parents that kind of all agree. We're gonna get a landline and the kids are gonna talk on the phone like they used to. It's not gonna be like, screens and.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Okay.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

And just kind of hold off on the iPhone. Technology. There's these phones. Tin can is the one that we're all doing, which is there's only a contact list there. And so your kids can only Dial people that are on that contact list and dial in the number where like you actually have to remember numbers. I think if you can delay the screens as much as possible. I mean, there's so much data coming out now on screen time use and earlier screen time use and later associations with depression and mental illness. And girls are particularly vulnerable to that comparison sort of phenomena where you get a lot of that on social media. Right. There's a lot of the comparisons and I remember just being in junior high and high school and the comparisons in real life were enough. And so I can't imagine that layer of here's the filter and here's where everyone looks perfect and you're comparing yourself to this not real thing. I've just basically gotten a group of parents and we've, in fact almost the whole class, we have like a group chat for our class. Yeah, all the parents are like, yeah, I'm on board. We're going to just delay the smartphones as much as we can. Because even if they have the smartphone and you're like, well, they don't have social media. They just. It's that dopamine getting used to the screens and the. It's sort of like the gateway.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

I think we've already kind of blown.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It a little bit because my kids.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Love eating and watching iPad.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And that I thought was okay because they'll still talk to us. But then some days they're like, I.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Want my iPad in bed, I want my iPad all day because I'm not doing anything. And it's. You really have to fight them on this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And on the one hand, they seem to be learning so much.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Like my son will go, if you.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Have this and this and this, and you put a layer of plastic in.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Between it, it's harder to break the glass. And I'm just like, wow, how do.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You know about, like how bulletproof glass works?

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Or what if you put a hot.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Thing in a cold thing, it melts.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It and it boils it so quickly that there's air and it expands and it explodes. And I was just like, wow, I probably learned that in high school or something, maybe middle school, not when I was six.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So it's really impressive that all the things they learned.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

But then you hear like, and then they get an eating disorder and you're.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like, I don't know if this trade off worth it.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Of course there's something to say for like educational types of shows because you do learn things and especially like, if it's something that your, your son is interested in Engineering or science, they really remember it and retain it. And so there is an argument to be made for like some moderate educational type of screen time. But it is addicting and it's hyper stimulating. Even though it's educational, it's education in this hyper stimulating way. It's not like reading a book. And so you have to like keep that in mind that these reward circuitry areas in the brain are being just activated and activated when they're watching the screens. And so I think that's sort of the argument. It's like, well, what about educational types of content? My son, he's 8 and he only uses his iPad for flashcards. So he does these Anki type of flashcards, which are spaced repetition. He's been learning language with it and so it really is amazing. And that's really all he knows the iPad for. We haven't done video games. He doesn't do any sort of shows on the iPad or anything. Now we watched movies as a family, but we don't do like TV shows. You know, the short sort of addicting where you're like always wanting the next one. Maybe you should kind of dial it down a little bit, keep it to some educational or like as a reward, like, oh, you did this thing. You read some pages in a book with me. Now we can do a little bit of this show that you love.

[Jordan Harbinger]

We do the reward stuff and we.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Watch the shorts on YouTube.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But what scares me is I'll go.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Yeah, you can watch this show about exploring the ocean. Yes, it's fictional and he knows that. And it's kind of cartoony, but it's still sciencey in a way. And it's not that bad.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And then I leave the room and.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

I go get the mail and then I open a Diet Coke. I know, we'll talk about that later.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And then I come back and it's like kids buying crap off Amazon and jumping in a puddle of balls. And I'm like, I thought you were watching the Explorer show.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And he's like, I don't know. This came on afterwards.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And I'm like, ok, I got to block this channel.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And I do that and then repeat the next day. And I come back and instead of Russian kids jumping in a puddle of balls, it's Filipino kids jumping in a puddle of balls.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And I'm like, I'm fighting a war.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Against YouTube kids to block every channel that is just full of nonsense where they don't even talk, right? They're just doing action things. And there's like special effects and sound effects.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm like, I just want to block all that. I have to sort of find a way to filter.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

They might even have this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I need to filter in the things.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

He'S allowed to watch instead of filtering out the 10 million things I don't want him to see. And they don't really make that easy because they want your kid to sit there for 10 hours watching other kids.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Jump into a puddle of balls and.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Then like buying the toy that's affiliated with it or like nagging you for it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It just drives me nuts. It's like television, except for my mom knew what I was watching on television.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Because it was on in the house. So she could be like, I don't like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Questionable choice, but whatever.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And she could turn it off, but I could be sitting next to him and I'm like, oh, you're still watching that?

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

What the heck is this?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like, I lean over 2 degrees and.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

I can see he's watching something totally different. So I basically have to monitor him completely all the time and have the audio be exposed to it, distracting me.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Or they're going to slip in some.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Little thing that I don't want.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's very tricky and I'm really. It's as bad almost as social media.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

I feel like in terms of the tricky that they pull off with it.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

No one's going to monitor it like that. Yeah, I haven't even. We haven't even done YouTube kids. Yeah. @.

[Jordan Harbinger]

All.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. What you're just describing right now makes me realize I don't ever want to do.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It. No, it's. It's like I assumed YouTube Kids was full of educational content, but no.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It'S just full of like non violent.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Maybe non sort of gross stuff. Even then I was doing a.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Show. Gosh, I should remember the guest. But I was doing a show where they were talking about things that they slip into YouTube.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Kids. There's self harm content that just creepy people will turn into a cartoon.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And they'll try, they'll upload it to YouTube kids and try and get it past the filter. And because they want kids to see it and.

[Jordan Harbinger]

They. I don't know, it's like somebody's.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Getting off on having violent cartoons in there that somehow get past the filter and tell kids to like jump off of high things and it's. They're deliberately trying to hurt.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Kids. That's dark.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Wow. YouTube finds them eventually and blocks it because parents are like, what do you mean? No, do not climb up on the roof. And jump off. This is super dangerous. What the hell is this? But the people keep making it. It's very bizarre because you think, like, what kind of psychopath is literally making cartoons for this? In uploading it? It's very, very odd. I think it was actually in the New York Times that I read this along with those, like, kid influencers that end up getting sexualized. Like, the whole thing is just. It's just such a weird, dark, gross.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Thing. And none of it is what I intended to talk about on the show today with you. It's hard as a parent. Look, man, you and I are doing reasonably well. I've seen your business grow over.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

The last 10 years since I last talked to you. 10 plus years. I don't even know how long it's.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Been. I work from home. I watch my kids. I've got a nanny who's an auntie. She's paying attention. If all of this stuff is slipping through with all of these people.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Around that actually love my kids, they care. This is not like a random daycare person with 20 kids to look after.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right? How are people who have two parents working their kids in daycare? Half the kids have phones, half the kids have.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Ipads. They're sitting in the corner.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Watching. How are those people monitoring this? And the answer is that they're just.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Not. They just have no idea what their kids are.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Consuming. They have no idea. And. And like you said, you know, they may put on a show that's, like, fairly educational and seems safe, and then they're going off and they're doing their work or, you know, whatever project, whatever they're working on. Because it is kind of like an easy, cheaper babysitter in a way, for a lot of people. And it is dangerous. Even if it was the educational material, like, there's only so much screen time that you should allow a child to have as well. There's even, like, a weird study that came out recently in the past year where it was like, screen time. Like an early age, 2, 3 years old was associated with these, like, sensory problems later in life. Kids that like, oh, their clothes are always itchy. And so they're really particular about the clothes they wear and issues that children can have. And I was like, who would have thought that correlation, you know, between, like, screen time and sensory issues? So this is new territory we're in, for sure. And we're sort of more aware of the negative effects of social media on mental health. But it's just not just social media, right? It's screen time. I Almost think about it, like, comparing processed foods. Hyper palatable, salty, sweet, savory foods. Once the kids taste that, like, that's all they.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Want. I'm not.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Hungry. I just want ice cream. Like, wait a.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Minute. Yeah, I want ice cream or chips or like something salty and process. That tastes really good. But I feel like the screens are kind of the same way where it's just hyper stimulating. Ooh, this feels good. I want more of this versus go play or read a book. But once they, like, go out and play, they really enjoy it. And they do learn a lot through playing. But like you said, you have to be there to watch them or someone has to be there to watch them. And so there is just this big issue with kids getting too much screen time. And I just think there's going to be a lot of negative consequences. Screens and phones are the new.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Smoking. I totally agree with. I mean, look, it's bad for your neck. Even the phone thing, it's bad for your neck, it's bad for your posture. We know that sitting is bad for you. What are you doing when you're on a screen? Most of the time you're not walking, you're not.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Jogging. You're sitting there with this stupid.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Thing.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So. And I'm just as guilty of this, man. If I'm on a boring conference call, I am playing Angry Pigs or whatever the heck that thing is called. I mean, like, I'm. I'm in.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It. And then I'm like, why does my neck.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Hurt? Oh, because I've been here for.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

40 minutes listening to accountants chatter. But at least I'm on level 95 of this stupid.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Game. This stuff is addicting even when you're aware of.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It. And kids are just helpless against a lot of this stuff. It's.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Really. Especially if they're watching you do it too, right? I mean, thankfully, you're addicted to X. Oh, God, you look at X all the time. They see you doing.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It. Thankfully, I'm pretty good about.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

That. They.

[Jordan Harbinger]

See. What they see me doing on.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

My phone is studying duolingo. And then my son's like, this is boring. I'm rolling over and going to sleep. But still, yeah, it does freak me out how much this could, like you said, show up later. My son, he's very impulsive, and.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I was like that when I was.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Younger. So it's not like, oh, my God, it's the.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Phone. But I don't know, is the phone making it worse? Would he have been less impulsive.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

If he never watched anything on his Screen, like, maybe. I don't know, I've already. The train has already left the station. But yeah, it bothers me. And especially looking at the stuff that happens to girls, like you said with the eating disorders and the comparison and stuff like that, it gets so dark and it makes me want to move to the woods like the Unabomber and write on a typewriter and make them chop wood all day. But that's maybe not good parenting.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Either. Let's move on to a more cheerful topic. Microplastics. This is something that I have talked about many times on the show, but it seems like there's a lot of super alarmist.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

People. And then there's also people that go, eh, it doesn't do anything. It's fine. We don't really.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Know. And it's like, well, you don't have direct. This is causing this, but you have a lot of correlation. And I know that correlation is not causation, but like a whole ton of correlation. How much more do you need before we decide that that's a problem? Does that make sense? Yes. Correlation's not causation, but, like, I don't know if it's a really strong correlation. Maybe it's causing it even if we can't directly prove that all the.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Time in every single.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Instance. Yeah. You're describing the, like, largest problem we have in medicine and health science.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Where. Yeah, in science, where we have so much of this observational data that has a lot of correlations, especially when you see them time and time again the same direction. And you try to do some randomized controlled trials to get biomarkers to kind of see if you get something similar, but you can't give people micro. Like, it's unethical. So with things that are harmful, it's just, you're never going to get a randomized controlled trial. We're like, we're going to feed you microplastics and see what happens. It's not going to pass the ethics committee.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Right. I mean, the good news is we're already all eating microplastics, so we.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Don'T really have to worry about.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

That. Yeah, the ethics.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Part. Yeah. But we do have animal evidence that you can at least establish causation and that helps strengthen the data when it comes to microplastics. You probably don't want to talk to me like, all my friends, like, every time there's some new thing I have, you know, and they're just like, don't ask me, like, if you're chewing that gum, I'M like, don't ask me about the gum. Like, there's microplastics in.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Gum. So do you have to worry about. Okay, she asked me, but I also don't want to. I want to be invited back to the ba. These baby showers and not be like, well, we invited Dr. Rhonda Patrick.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And she said the cake has microplastics in it. So we threw it in the trash. And the bride was really upset about that. And yeah, anyway, Rhonda's not coming to the next thing. Don't.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Worry. I mean, it's an ongoing problem. But yeah, I think microplastics are a problem. Most people, probably a lot of your listeners, know generally what they are. I mean, these are like small pieces of plastic that come off larger plastic pieces. Right. And they get into our bodies mostly through what we're ingesting, but also what we're breathing. The air we're breathing, they're in the air as well. Air is a big source of microplastic pollution as well. And so there's microplastics and then there's different sizes of microplastics. And as they get smaller and smaller and smaller, they're called nanoplastics. And the smaller they get, they become more, I would say, dangerous in a way because we can absorb them easier. So these microplastics, you might just think, well, I don't drink water out of a plastic bottle, therefore I'm, you know, I'm not getting as much.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Microplastics. But.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right. The reality is, is that unfortunately not true. Yes. If you aren't drinking out of a plastic bottle, then you're eliminating some of these microplastics that you could be taking in. But it's in our water sources. And so unless you have a type of water filter, the best kind would be a reverse osmosis water filter because that filters out even the smaller, smaller ones like the nanoplastics. But any type of filter is better than none, to be honest. Any kind of carbon activated carbon filter is better than, than no filter. It's on the plants that we eat, so vegetables and fruits, because it's in the soil and they get on the plants. It's in the plants, it's in meat, it's in every. It's all over the place. It's everywhere. We're ingesting them all the.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Time. Does it make sense to buy.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

A reverse osmosis filter if you're already eating it with your salad and your steak and the can of whatever spindrift that you had? Yes. Maybe less is better, but I don't know if I'm having, like, five or eight glasses of water a day from my reverse osmosis filter, but then.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm drinking a diet Coke and I'm.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Drinking a spin drift, then I'm having a smoothie, and then I eat a salad, and then I have a.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Steak. And all of that other stuff has microplastics in.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It. Why did I spend all that money on the reverse osmosis.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Filter? Right. It seems.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Unavoidable. It's almost like, fine, I won't drink Aquafina out of a plastic bottle.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But am I making a dent in what I'm consuming even at.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

All? You are, because water, tap water, is a major source of the microplastics that we ingest.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

In.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Okay. Probably one of the biggest major sources. So I would say the. The most effective thing that you can do is get a filter, drink filtered water, get some sort of reverse osmosis countertop water. Filters are great. There's the water drop one. There's a variety of ones that you can get that really do a good job. So let's talk about microplastics. Essentially, what's happening is they get into your system. They're in your gut. In your gut. That's the point of. Are you gonna absorb it? And once it gets into your circulation, that's the point of no return. So. So once the microplastics get into circulation, they circulate, and then they. They go to organs, they're transported to organs, and they accumulate in organs. And so there have been a variety of studies now that have found microplastics in everything from placenta, testes, kidneys, heart, brain. It's just everywhere. And this is human.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Organs.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yuck. In fact, there was a study that sampled both human sperm and dog sperm and found 100%. All the samples from both humans, from men and dogs, had microplastics in them. So the dogs are eating. I mean, dogs are getting it too, right? They're drinking the same water. They're. They're getting the same stuff. It's getting everywhere in our organs. But the point is, is that if there's something you can do to prevent your body from absorbing it, that's the best. Right? And there is some animal evidence that actually, first of all, size matters. So the bigger the microplastic.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Size. Yeah, story of my.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Life. The bigger the microplastic size, the less likely you are to absorb it. So the smaller ones are more dangerous in that regard because they get through the gut epithelial cells.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Easier.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Okay. But what's even, I would say more promising is that dietary fiber seems to prevent absorption, really in a couple different ways. Soluble fiber or particularly soluble fiber. So soluble fiber, people may be familiar. There's a lot of different names for it. Fermentable fiber, prebiotics. Right. Those are all sort of interchangeable ways of saying soluble fiber. Soluble fiber was like back in our day when, like, that's what they used to call it. Right now there's too many words for it, but essentially you'll find that type of fiber in fruits. Fruits is a big one. The skins of fruits, some vegetables as well. But you can supplement with it, like inulin. You know, there's a lot of these prebiotic fibers people take as well. Beta glucans is another one. But the soluble fiber, what it does is it kind of. It's viscous and it creates this mucus thing around the microplastics and even the smaller nanoplastics. And it prevents your gut from absorbing them and it sort of brings it out through your.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Feces.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Wow. You actually excrete these microplastics, nanoplastics, through your poop, essentially, instead of absorbing.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Great. Yeah. And so again, this is based on animal studies, because like I said, I've talked to one researcher at Harvard and I sort of seeded this idea in her head. I was like, this study needs to be done in humans where you like, measure their microplastics and then get them on a high fiber diet and then measure it again. But essentially, if you eat the fiber with the microplastic ingestion, that's great. But even like anytime around it, right? Cause it takes a while for you to digest. So if you're eating it even within like a couple of hours of taking in your spin drift, which is lined with plastic lining, people don't realize that they think aluminum cans are safer because they're not plastic. They don't realize that those cans are lined with plastic to prevent this soda water or whatever from corroding the aluminum. So exactly at this point, we don't have any technology yet. Let's wait for the nanobots that are gonna come in and like filter out the microplastics. But we don't have those right now. And so once it is absorbed into your circulation, it does get transported to organs. And there have been a couple of disturbing studies. One study was published, this was out of Brazil, and it looked at microplastic levels in different organs and found that, interestingly, the Brain seem to accumulate microplastics, almost like 10 times more than other.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Organs. That's.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Scary. It's scary. But also it was shocking to me because we have something called the blood brain.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Barrier. Right. That theoretically.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right. Protects our brain. Right. It's supposed to not let stuff into the brain. And so I thought about this for a while and it's not really known why the brain is accumulating so much more microplastics than say, like other organs, like the kidneys. You'd think or something would accumulate more, but the brain is the one that had the most. I told you earlier about the breathing in the air and that's another source of microplastics. So air pollution. These rubber tires are made with plastic fibers and all that stuff. So yeah, there's plastic particles, dryers going in. There's tons of microplastics in our clothing. And so we're breathing in microplastics. Especially like if you live in an urban area. Well, if you breathe something in, it can actually bypass the blood brain barrier and get into the brain. And so I think possibly what's happening is you're getting a twofold hit. You're getting what's going in through your circulation with the nanoplastics because nanoplastics are small enough to get through the blood brain barrier. And then you're breathing in these particles and that's also getting in. And so therefore they're getting into the brain and you might go, well, what are they doing in the brain? And again, that's where animal evidence is a little bit more enlightening. But just looking at the human data, we do know that higher levels of microplastics in the brain were correlated with Alzheimer's disease. So people that had Alzheimer's disease had up to 10 times more microplastics in their brains than people that did not have Alzheimer's.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Disease. Before we find out how many microplastics I've personally inhaled today, let's talk about something else that gets inside you consensually. We'll be right back. I'd like to take a quick.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Break and tell you about noom, sponsor of this.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Episode. One thing we've been talking about.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

A lot with Rhonda is how small, invisible things add up over.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Time. Tiny exposures, tiny habits, tiny decisions, and then years later, you're dealing with the results. That idea applies really clearly to weight loss as.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Well. If you've ever hit a plateau.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You'Re eating better, moving more, doing everything you're supposed to do. The Problem usually isn't.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Effort. It's that most weight loss approaches.

[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

A full dose medication right out of.

[Jordan Harbinger]

The gate, NOOM starts you on a smaller dose and gradually scales it based on your individual response. And it works. Noom found 1254 engaged users reported losing on average 8 pounds in 30 days on their microdose protocol. Wow. But what really makes this different.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Is that the medication isn't the whole.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Plan. NOOM pairs it with behavior change.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

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[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Results. If you're wondering how I managed.

[Jordan Harbinger]

To book all these great authors, thinkers, scientists, creators, every week it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. And I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself for free. Especially important in today's economy. I'm hearing from you in my inbox here. The course is free. There's no.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Shenanigans. I don't bill.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You. I don't need your credit card.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Information. I don't sell your.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Data. It's over at 6minutenetworking.com. It is literally just a gift to you. I think a great way to start the new year is systemizing your.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Relationships, making sure you maintain.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Them. Six minutes a day is all it.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Takes. This is not a heavy.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Lift. The course is.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Bingeable. It's not one of those like, come back tomorrow. You can do it all at once. I don't.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Care. And many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course again, all [e-mail] now back to Dr. Rhonda.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Patrick. I don't know if you know.

[Jordan Harbinger]

The answer to this, but when you say blood brain.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Barrier. I've heard of this a million.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Times, but I just realized I don't know what it.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Is. What is it made out.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Of? Is it actually a barrier or is it just the system of.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Circulation? Doesn't quite go.

[Jordan Harbinger]

There. How does. What is.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

It? Yeah, it's actually a barrier. There's like endothelial cells that are held together by these proteins, like they're called tight junctions. And it's essentially like protecting the brain. It is permeable, so it does allow things. There's active transport as well. But it is a real.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Barrier. Is it in my neck or brain stem? Spine. Like, where is.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It? Where's this.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Located? It's in the brain. It's surrounding the.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Brain. Oh, I.

[Jordan Harbinger]

See. It's a little force field around the brain kind.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Of.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Interesting. You got it. When it comes to like the things that actually get in there, these microplastics have been shown to cause inflammation. And those studies have been done in animals, of course. It's this foreign molecule, it's this foreign body, your immune system. And the brain has immune cells as well. They're called microglial cells. And when they see something foreign, they get activated and they sort of fire off all these weapons called cytokines, inflammatory cytokines that are trying to destroy it. But it turns out it is a foreign molecule, but it's not a infection or anything like that. And so you end up getting this vicious cycle of low grade inflammation in the brain which is known to cause dementia and Alzheimer's disease. That is well.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Established.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yikes. I think there's enough evidence here to be concerned about the fact that microplastics are accumulating in the brain. They're associated with Alzheimer's disease, dementia, and we know that they're causing.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Neuroinflammation.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yikes. And so that's enough to say, well, maybe I should take this a little more seriously and try to eliminate these microplastics as much as I can. And the number one thing you can do is get a water filter for sure. That's the.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Best. I didn't realize water.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Was. It totally makes sense now that you say it, that most of us are drinking a ton of water. And if there's a ton of microplastics in there, more so than is on my salad or whatever, then there it is. I mean, it's just, it's quite depressing to think about how we're just totally surrounded by all.

[Jordan Harbinger]

This. So you mentioned earlier, you said.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Once it's in the Circulatory system. That's the point of no.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Return. So is there nothing we can.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Do to enhance our body's ability to eliminate.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Microplastics? Not that I know. There's a couple of problems with the microplastics. You know, one is they are creating inflammation I mentioned in the brain. They also do this in the heart. We can talk about that study as well. But the microplastics also have chemicals associated with them. This phenol A being 1 BPA, BPS, which replaced BPA in some products, but now we know is doing the same thing as bpa, if not worse. And so these chemicals are disrupting hormones. They're endocrine disruptors and they're in the microplastics. And so you're having like this little constant leech of these chemicals, these plastic associated chemicals in your body. Right. And that's not good either. These endocrine disruptors are also associated with negative health outcomes like cancer, neurodevelopmental disease, important for early development, pregnancy. That's a big time that you wanna avoid those types of chemicals, but also just hormone dysfunction. There's a lot of problems that are associated with these endocrine disruptors and there are ways to excrete those plastic associated chemicals. And so I find that at least a little.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Bit. I see. So you can get rid of like the secondary, some of the secondary issues caused by it. But the credit card that's in your liver is there to.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Stay. Yeah, the credit card, by the way, that was kind of.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Debunked. Yeah, it was, it was. I've, I've, I've said before on.

[Jordan Harbinger]

The show that what was it there? Like you're eating a credit card worth of plastic every single day or every single.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Month. And it's just like not really every week, every.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Week. And it was a pretty valid scientific paper that published this. But it turns out other researchers went back and found that the way they did this calculation, like the gram weight of it was equivalent to a credit card. Essentially they were measuring microplastic particles that were from the ocean. The particles that we're taking in aren't necessarily as big as the ones that are in the ocean. There's a lot of microplastics in the ocean and so the sizes were bigger and so it's not quite the same. We're still taking in a lot of particles every.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Week. The other thing that you mentioned before, that size matters, but this might be the inverse kind of of that, which.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Is. I'm going to go ahead and guess that if I chewed up a.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Credit card, my body would go, ugh.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You ate a credit.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Card? And it would come out the other.

[Jordan Harbinger]

End. If I eat a credit card zapped into a bajillion different little molecules.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Of plastic, I'm just going to absorb all that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right. It's actually maybe.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Better. I wish I were only eating a credit card worth and it came in my salad and I just had to deal with it that way. But instead I'm breathing it in and it's pretending to be something else in my body, essentially. Or it's tricking my body into absorbing it. So, like, bigger chunks of plastic, it's probably. Well, you tell me that's almost safer to less.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Harmful. It is. And it's interesting that you brought this up, Jordan, because there was a study that was disturbing that was published a few months back. I think it was like, in the summer, there was a study out of France that compared microplastics in water from a plastic bottle versus glass bottle versus can, aluminum can. Right. And you would think if I were to ask you, which of those three types of containment do you think had the lowest amount of.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Microplastics? It depends where the water itself is.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

From.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Right. Is it pure water that's going into each of these.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Things? Yeah. I mean, assuming the water's.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Constant.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Okay. Would you think more plastic is coming from a glass bottle? A plastic bottle or an aluminum can.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Lined. I just assume that the plastic bottle is leaching into the water and there's more of.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

It. Yeah, exactly. You would. However, what they found was that the glass bottle had the highest number particle number of microplastics. And everyone was all in a tizzy. Like, when I'm out, I get water from a glass bottle versus.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Plastic.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. And it was like, well, how is this possible? It turns out the lid that they're putting on the plastic bottle has, like, paint and stuff on it, and the paint is made of plastic. You know those plastic polymers that make up the paint when they're in these facilities and they're putting the caps on the bottles, some of that's kind of like coming off, you know, friction.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Right. On the glass.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Bottles.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Yes. Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Okay. But here's the good news. The size, while the plastic particle number was greater, so was the size. So they were actually much larger because it was essentially little flakes of the paint coming off. It wasn't dissolved. And the larger the size, it's not absorbed as well. And so I think. And there's now there's Gonna be studies that have to show this. I think that even though the glass had more plastics, I still go for the glass because this size was bigger. The plastic size in the plastic bottles was much smaller. And that's the stuff that gets absorbed in the gut. So it's just endless. You were asking, like, what you can do to get rid of them once they're in circulation. And I said, really? There's nothing right now, honestly. But we do have ways of excreting these chemicals. Most people think of sweat as the main way, and sweat does excrete a little bit of these chemicals. But the main way BPA and these plastic chemicals are excreted is actually through urine. And so you essentially want to do something that's gonna speed up that process of excreting it through your urine. And that's where this compound comes in. That's from cruciferous vegetables like broccoli and particularly broccoli sprouts called sulforaphane. Sulforaphane. It's about a hundred times more present in broccoli sprouts than broccoli. And I say it's present, but actually it's. The plant has to be crushed or like you bite the plant before the sulforaphane actually is activated, it's stored as a precursor, then it forms sulforaphane. So I'm just trying to be accurate.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Here.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. But essentially, that compound activates our body's detoxification pathways. So our bodies have these pathways that excrete harmful compounds because, you know, we've been exposed to them throughout our evolution. Right. Not necessarily the same types of toxic things, but there's toxic things from plants and everything. Right. So it activates the detoxification pathway called NRF2. And that has been shown to, for example, benzene. Benzene is a carcinogen that we breathe in through air pollution. Smokers take it in. It's in cigarette smoke. Wildfire smoke has it as well. But there's been a couple of studies in China where benzene is extremely high because air pollution is high. And individuals taking in this sulforaphane compound from broccoli sprout extract excrete about 60% more benzene within 24 hours of taking the sulforaphane extract. So sulforaphane activates these detoxification pathways. Well, benzene, the enzymes that basically cause the excretion of benzene, also cause the excretion of BPA and some of these plastic chemicals. And so I think even though it hasn't been directly shown that sulforaphane is also something that's going to be excreting bpa. There's animal evidence to back that up, but it hasn't been shown in humans yet. I do think that sulforaphane is another tool for people that they can use. There's great supplements out there. I use one called Avocol. I don't have any affiliation with them other than I really like their.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Product.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

No. We'll link to it in the show notes.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Though. They've got 12 publications backing up their formulation showing that it's doing X amount of things like improving brain function on autistic children. It's just doing a lot of things because detoxification is very important for brain health, not only for, you know, the brain, but other organs as well. So I think sulforaphane is another great way to at least try to detox yourself from some of these plastic chemicals as.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Well. Is the number one practical step that we should take to limit exposure is that just get a water filter because that's this huge vector of ingestion. Because I can't really filter out what I breathe.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right? You can if you're working from home and you can filter it out when you're in your home. So you can get a HEPA filter. You can get these like Honeywell HEPA filters and have them in every room. They're pretty small and they work air filters in your house, water filters in your house. Those are the two top things that you can do. And then from there try to avoid drinking out of plastic bottles as much as you can try to avoid heating plastic. So these to go coffee mugs, like if you go to Starbucks or whatever your favorite to go coffee places, those paper cups are also lined with plastic because.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Again.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right. They don't want the hot water, you know, just breaking down the paper cup. So we know that heat causes microplastic breakdown and plastic chemical breakdown by like 50 fold. So you're really taking in a lot more microplastics. If you're drinking hot tea or hot coffee out of a to go coffee mug, bring your own mug in, Bring your own mug in if you want. Or drink it there with their mugs. That's not the paper mug. That's the other thing. That's a real big, I would say contributor to our microplastic exposure. The other thing would be, obviously, like we talked about trying to avoid the plastic water bottles, but other things too. Teabags. So teabags have microplastics in them all. Teabags. There was a study that came out Comparing all the different types, it's hundreds to thousands of them per milliliter drop. It's crazy. So loose leaf tea is the way to go on that. Because if you do drink a lot of tea, there's a lot of benefits to tea. And that is like the silver lining as well. Because obviously there's so many studies out there on the benefits, health benefits of tea, reduced dementia risk, reduced cancer risk, all sorts of benefits. And it's not like everyone's drinking loose leaf tea. Right. So at least we know that whatever polyphenol benefits you're getting from the tea, maybe they're negating some of the microplastic negative effects as well. If you can avoid teabags as much as possible. Now, anytime I'm out, I used to drink tea and it's like, I can't do it if it's not loose leaf. Because all I can think about is I'm drinking plastic tea, you.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Know?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. Now I'm like, can I go to Phil's Coffee or Starbucks and be like, can you put this in my mug? And they'll go, sure, I just need to pour it in this paper.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Cup lined with plastic first. And then you can pour it in your mug. And it's like, doesn't that defeat the entire.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Purpose? Yeah. No, you need to ask them to pour it into your mug. And if not, you just have to drink. A lot of these places have mugs, right? They have ceramic mugs. I mean, unless you're getting it to go. Yeah, if you're getting it to go, make it in the ceramic mug and then you can pour it into yours. Like, I don't.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Know. Yeah, they'll have to figure it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Out. I mean, this is California, for God's.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Sake. I can't be the most high maintenance person.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Here. It's kind of. This is the Bay Area. There's a lot of.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Kooks. The only coffee shop that I know of that does not line their paper cups with plastic is blue bottle coffee. They use poly lactic acid from sugar cane. And I really think that everyone should switch to that. I guess there's not enough people putting pressure on these companies to do that yet. But hopefully, like, with more awareness of it, people will put pressure and the companies will.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Switch. How long, though, did it take to ban. What was it? Bpa. I remember again, I don't know how old you are and I won't.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Ask, but when I was little, I. BPA's not.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Banned. It's.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Not?

[Jordan Harbinger]

No. Oh, my God.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

No. You're Talking about red number five. Red number.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Five. So when I was little, I.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Used to play soccer and they would give us these water bottles. And I remember going, this tastes really gross because it tasted like a solvent. And everyone was just like.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Whatever. And we would drink.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It. And I was like, I don't like that. I'm not going to drink that water. So I remember I had to get a different water bottle. And we had these cups in my house, and I hated them. And they were this weird plastic and I wouldn't drink out of them because they tasted.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Weird. And then later on it was like, oh, yeah, this plastic leaches into the.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Water. And it. I thought it was bpa, but maybe not. And now they switched to BPA free and different kinds of water bottles that don't do.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That. And it was just really, really.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Obvious that these soft, squishy water bottles were made out of a plastic that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Leached. I remember once I put hot water in one and the thing completely.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Deformed. And I was like, it just melted, basically. And I was like, so you're drinking.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That? And it tasted like some kind of rubbing alcohol mixed into the water.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Every time you drank from it. And I just was like, there's.

[Jordan Harbinger]

No way this is good for you. I remember thinking that at like.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

8 years old, I was like, there's no way that this is supposed to be like.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

This. Well, you're right on the fact that bpa, it does leach into your water bottle. And there was a marketing push that said, this is BPA free, right? And people thought that that was safer because it was like BPA free. And it's still. You'll see it everywhere. But the problem is, is that they replaced BPA with something called bps. So BPA wasn't banned. It was just a lot of companies decided, oh, yeah, now we know BPA is bad. It's disrupting hormones. It leeches into the liquid or whatever content, food, whatever's in there. And so they switched to bps. And it's like, now they market as BPA free and everyone thinks that means it's safe. Except for the fact that now it's been enough years, over a decade, a couple of decades now, at least that you've seen this BPA free stuff. And now we have science on BPs. Guess what? It's doing the same thing as.

[Jordan Harbinger]

BPA. How about no more BP. The BP is clearly the problem here.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Rhonda. The plastic is the.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Problem. What does the BP stand for? Do we.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Know? Do you.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Know?

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Bisphenol. Okay. And that's just.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Plastic. The type of plastic, it makes the plastic more durable. Like you said, it makes it more durable. It's funny because, like, I was talking about this gum thing and I had no idea there was plastic in gum. Did you know that gum was made out of.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Plastic? I.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Didn'T. I mean, now that you say it, it makes perfect sense. But I also didn't know that there was plastic on salad. So here we are.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right. Well, gum base is made from plastic polymers, but it didn't start that way. It was around World War II where the gum base shifted from this plant tree sappy kind of stuff that they used to use in gum. So it was a gum used to be plastic free. And then World War II, that's when the gum base shifted to these plastic polymers. And so now essentially all gum, unless it's marketed as plastic free. And you look at it and it's made from this tree sappy.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Stuff. I forget what that stuff is called. And if you look on Amazon, it's very expensive to get.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Gum. And it's terrible. It's terrible. It like dissolves. You, like, chew it and then it's.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Mush.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. You're chewing and swallowing a bunch of plastic when you're chewing gum. And so you really do want to get the plastic free gum. I did find a brand that was like, from the Netherlands that was really good that I like. But it's hard to.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Get. Yeah.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. So you have to stick with the Simply Gum, which is what you get on Amazon and at least it's plastic.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Free. What's the brand in the.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Netherlands? Because I have Dutch show fans and if they want to do me a salad, they can mail me a bunch of.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

This. It's called True.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Gum.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Okay. Yeah. And you want to get the xylitol form, because xylitol actually cleans your teeth and like kills off bacteria that cause cavities. So I've reversed so many cavities and had friends that have reversed them from chewing xylitol gum. And so I was chewing gum, like all the time. And then I like, found out it was plastic gum. And of course I was just, I was so upset just thinking about all the plastic that I ingested. And after that, now I've switched to the Simply Gum and also the True Gum. True gum is my favorite. It doesn't disintegrate as.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Quickly. My gosh, Dutch show fans, don't forget your boy on.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Christmas. I'm on the market.

[Jordan Harbinger]

For. In the market for some gum. I do Chew gum every.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Day. And I love it. It's kind of like, I don't.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Know, I chew it when I'm, like, hungry or when I'm outside. I don't know. I just like.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It. I don't Something about it. And, yeah, now I'm swallowing a bunch of.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Plastic. That's super.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Disappointing. You mentioned before about brain aging.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Brain issues, and I know you'd mentioned.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Before we talked here on the show that multivitamins can maybe help slow brain.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Aging. And I was shocked to hear that because, honestly, when I thought multivitamins, I've been told you pee the whole thing out. It's placebo. It's expensive.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Urine. It's just a marketing push. It's up there with like, Kellogg's putting like, hey, we have vitamins in your cereal. It's like, whatever, man. You know, they just sprinkle some on there so they can print it on the box. That's kind of what I thought it.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Was. Yeah, well, I'm sure you thought that, because that was the. I would say the message from the medical community and the scientific community for the last, I don't know how many decades. It's expensive urine. And in fact, 10 years ago, it was exactly 10 years ago, this huge study came out. It was called Enough Is Enough. Not only are multivitamins useless, they're harmful. And that review article, I remember just looking at each and every study and just tearing it to shreds with how awful the study was. Not even measuring the nutrient in the blood and, like, thinking you're giving someone a vitamin and it's doing something and all sorts of problems. Right. Well, we've come now, 10 years later, and there have been three very, very large randomized controlled trials that have been done. They're called the Cosmo studies. And these trials have given older adults, these are people age 65 or older, a standard run of the mill, your least bougie multivitamin that you could think of, called Centrum.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Silver. Yeah, I was gonna say. What is this? Like, Centrum.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Silver? Yeah.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Funny. Yeah, Centrum Silver. And they gave these older adults the Centrum Silver multivitamin for a year or a placebo. Right. So they were getting either a placebo or Centrum Silver. A variety of different endpoints have been measured. So we're talking about the brain endpoint here, the brain health. And essentially what was found was that these individuals that were given the multivitamin, not only did they not have accelerated brain aging, so it's clearly not bad for you. It delayed brain Aging. So global brain aging. There was a battery of tests that were done. Global brain aging was delayed by 2.1 years compared to the placebo group. Essentially, cognition was improved and something called episodic memory. So when you remember people, events, things like that, that's the stuff that goes. As you get older, older adults, they can't remember things that they did, right? I mean, it's just like that. That's part of the short term memory that goes away. Episodic memory. Well, there's something called episodic brain aging. And again, it's a battery of tests that are done. Well, episodic brain aging was also reduced by 4, 4.9 years. So essentially 5.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Years.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Wow. Of reduced episodic brain aging in the individuals that were given the multivitamin compared to a placebo. And this is after just a year. I think it was a year. It might've been two at the most. I can't remember. It was either one or two years they were given this multivitamin. But it just goes to show. I mean, how easy is it for someone to take a multivitamin pill? I mean, it's the easiest thing that you can give your parents or your grandparents or do for yourself. Super easy. And what's happening is it's filling all these micronutrient gaps that we are not getting from our diet. When I say micronutrients, I'm not talking about fat, I'm not talking about carbohydrates, I'm not talking about protein. I'm talking about vitamins, minerals, these essential fatty acids, essential amino acids that you get from these multivitamins. Most of the multivitamins you're getting are in the Centrum Silver case. You're getting the vitamins and the minerals, and you're getting some plant phytochemicals like lycopene or lutein. These are carotenoids that are found in plants. And so you're getting those as well. And we know that the majority of people are not getting them from their diet. 50% of the US population doesn't get enough magnesium from their food. Another 45% doesn't get enough calcium. 35%, doesn't get enough vitamin A, 25% doesn't get enough vitamin C. It goes on and on. So what a multivitamin does is help fill those gaps that you're just not getting from eating a good diet. And these micronutrients are important. They are doing things that help delay aging, that help improve all these functions, whether we're talking about neurotransmitter synthesis or reducing inflammation or reducing oxidation that plays a role in brain aging, all these things. Right. And so it's something that people don't think about because you don't see that kind of damage when you look in the mirror. You can't see oxidation or inflammation. I mean, sometimes if you're really inflamed, you'll feel it like if you're sick. But like the really small chronic type, it's kind of like, oh, brain foggy. I don't really, you know, you're just like, this is my.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Normal. Right, yeah.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Sure. So when I tell people about this multivitamin study, it's thousands of people. It's compared to placebo. It's the gold standard that all these physicians want. And yet they're still going. It's expensive urine. It's expensive urine. It's like, who doesn't want their parents and their grandparents or yourself, when you get to that point, to delay your global brain aging by two years and your episodic brain aging by five.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Years? Yeah, no.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Kidding. It's a no.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Brainer. So do you take a multivitamin.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Now or is it like you take it when you're 60 and then you worry about.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

This? Oh, absolutely. Now I've been taking it for the last at least 15.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Years. Oh.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Wow. Ever since I was a graduate student, I was convinced early on that even though I try to eat a healthy diet, it's hard to get all of your vitamins and minerals from food. And on top of that, the soil is very different. And depending on where your vegetables are from, depending on where you're eating your meat from, you're not getting all the micronutrients that you should be getting, even if you're eating their foods. Right. The soil is depleted of some of these, like selenium and things like that. And so it's just really hard to get these important micronutrients. And so a multivitamin is something that I think everyone should take starting now. It's not something that's gonna be harmful, and if anything, it's gonna be beneficial. It's filling these micronutrient gaps. But on top of that, I think there are other things that are important to supplement with as well because you can only pack so much into a multivitamin.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Right. Let me jump on that in a second. But do you recommend any specific? I mean, we're not. I take it Centrum Silver is not the gold standard multivitamin for most.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

People. It's not But I like the fact that at least the general population can go to Walmart or CVS and afford that.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Right.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. I don't take Centrum Silver. The one that I take is one by pure encapsulations. I like theirs because it's just one you have to take. And they do a pretty good job of getting the methyl folate. You're getting the right types of like B vitamins. I also like Thorne. They have a two a day one as well. You can find your sort of more bougie ones. And the reason I like those brands is because there's a lot of NSF certification, which essentially just means less contaminants coming into your multivitamin. But there's other good brands out there as well. And then maybe depending on like what your gaps are, like maybe, you know, for some women that are highly athletic and you know, they might need a little more iron, going for one with iron might help, but that would have to be premenopausal women. Of course, postmenopausal women do not need iron and men do not need iron as.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Well. I did a crazy blood panel. Well, I have several, but they showed me where I was deficient in everything. And I supplement that stuff like CoQ10 and selenium and then like magnesium and zinc, things like that. So do you think you stack that with a multivitamin because there's stuff in the multi that you're just not.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Getting? Yeah, I think with some of these sort of. For example, magnesium, just because of its molecular weight, you can't pack enough of it into a multivitamin to fill the micronutrient.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Gap. Yeah, I take two decent sized pills at.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Night.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Exactly. Each one is the size of a.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Multivitamin. Right. Magnesium is one that I think that is needed as an extra supplement in addition to the multivitamin. Just because magnesium is so important for. You have to have magnesium to make and use energy. You have to have magnesium to repair damage to your DNA that's done every day to prevent cancer incidents. And there have been studies that have found, for example, for every 10 milligram decrease in magnesium intake, there was a 24% increase in pancreatic cancer incidence. So it's like a dose dependent association here. Right. Less magnesium, more pancreatic cancer. So magnesium is one people aren't, they're not getting from their foods. It's mostly found in dark leafy greens because it's at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their green Color. And so if you don't eat a lot of dark greens, then you're not getting enough magnesium. It's also found in oats, in some nuts, like almonds, but that's not the stuff people are eating every.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Day.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right. So it does help to supplement. For men, you want to get about 400 milligrams of magnesium day. For women, about 350. If you're athletic, if you use the sauna, you have to go up between 10 to 20% more because you're sweating out.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Magnesium. I.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

See. So you're losing it. And so you have to replenish that. Now you can replenish it with electrolytes, but you might like some of these really athletic people, like endurance athletes, or if you're using the sauna every day, you're losing a significant amount of magnesium. So you do have to kind of make sure you're supplementing with even more than perhaps the, you know, RDA, which would be, for a man, 400 milligrams a day. So that's great. You wanna make sure you're getting the right form of magnesium. So magnesium, back in the day, you know, the magnesium oxide dioxide, like that was what everyone was taking. And it's just not very bioavailable. You don't absorb a lot of it. So what you wanna take is the salt form. So you wanna get these organic salts like magnesium malate, magnesium citrate, magnesium T. Those are pretty bioavailable absorbable forms. Or magnesium glycinate is another really good one. That's what I take. I like it because it has a glycine molecule attached to it. And so I take that at night because glycine also helps improve sleep, relaxes you. It's like calming and helps with sleep. And so that's something I like to take as.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Well. I think I take magnesium threonate. Okay, does that sound.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right? So magnesium threonate is another form of magnesium. It's been marketed as a brain magnesium. Perhaps that's why you're taking it. So there have been, there's a company that patented this certain form of magnesium that is thought to more readily pass and cross the blood brain barrier based on animal studies. So there's animal studies showing that you can take magnesium threonate. So it's actually magnesium L threonate and that basically when you take that magnesium, it gets into your bloodstream and it's primarily going to the brain. And so there have been a two randomized controlled trials, both done by the company that makes the Supplement. Just keep that in mind. Potential conflict of interest doesn't mean it is. But those two studies have found that people given the magnesium L Threonate, those individuals didn't have improved cognition compared to placebo. And so that's kind of great corroborating evidence. Perhaps it is getting into the brain more. I would say that if you are taking magnesium L Threonate that you probably also want to take another magnesium for the other functions. Because let's say it really is going to the brain more readily, then perhaps you're not getting as much to the other systems that you need for DNA repair, for.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Example. I.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

See. Or for the energy production, like not in the brain. So it might be a good idea to take the L Threonate and the magnesium.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Glycinate. I see. Okay. I'm writing this down because I definitely only take that kind of magnesium. And I know someone sent me.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like magnesium breakthrough, all six forms of.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Magnesium or whatever, because, yeah, I take these very specific things that I was deficient in or stuff like specifically for sleep, but I don't take anything that's like, here's a bunch of stuff packed into one. Or like, hey, you probably need more of this because you eat like crap like a busy person.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Generally. Well, you mentioned Coq 10 as well, and that's another one that's really interesting. Some multivitamins have a very small amount of it, like 50mgs, which is better than nothing, but it's really a small amount. You're probably taking something that's much higher than that, maybe a hundred or two.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Hundred. It's a good.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Question. And I don't know. You don't know.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Okay. It's a big enough pill, like it's a tablet. It's separate from everything.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Else. They're usually pretty big pills. CoQ10 is something that you do make in your body. It's important for your mitochondria, which is essentially energy producing little organelles inside most all of your cells, except for red blood cells. So really important for muscle health, for brain health, for sperm health, everything. It's really important for everything. And so there have been studies showing that supplementing with CoQ10 can improve cardiovascular health, can help with mitochondrial health as well. People that are actually taking a statin, it's essential because statins are inhibiting cholesterol synthesis. And the same pathway that is producing cholesterol in your body, it's called the HMG CoA pathway, also makes CoQ10. And so people that are taking statins, their CoQ10 levels plummet and that in turn affects their muscle, their mitochondrial health, brain health. So people taking a statin absolutely should be supplementing with Some sort of CoQ10. I think ubiquinol is better than ubiquinone because ubiquinol is the reduced form and it's more bioavailable and so you can basically get more bang for your buck. However, the majority of studies that have been done have been done with the cheaper CoQ10 because it's more stable and there's obviously benefits from that. You just have to take more of.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

It. I see. Mine is from pure encapsulations, which you mentioned before. So hopefully it's. Hopefully they've got it covered. I don't.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Know. Yeah, that's a good one to.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Take. Yeah, my friend recommended that and.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I was like, why is this twice.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

The price of the stuff on Amazon? And he's like, because it actually is the stuff and not sawdust from China. And I was like, it's a fair argument, I suppose, for buying things on. Especially if something you're putting in your body, you want to make sure it's the thing that it says on the label and the thing that you.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Want.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Absolutely. Speaking of expensive urine, I need a quick break. We'll be right back. I'd like to take a quick break for a second because if this episode has you doing that thing where you're mentally inventorying your own health choices, you're not alone. One of the big themes here is that the stuff that matters for long term health doesn't announce itself. It builds quietly over years, and.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Most of us don't even realize anything is off until something.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Breaks. That's why this stat stopped me in my tracks. Seven out of eight American adults have suboptimal metabolic health, and most don't even know it. And that's exactly the gap that NOOM Proactive Health Microdose is designed to close. This program combines GLP1 microdoses at home diagnostic testing, and Noom's behavior change coaching to help you improve biomarkers that matter for longevity and future health. Every four months, you get an advanced biomarker test you can do at home. So you're not guessing or relying.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

On, like, I feel.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Fine. You can actually see what's happening under the hood. Then you use Noom's app to turn small, realistic actions into habits that compound over time. Prevention becomes measurable, health becomes personal. What I like here is the restraint. Noom starts with microdoses and micro changes, then adjusts based on how Your body responds individually. It's not about extremes or hacks. It's about protecting your future health in a way that fits real life. Proactive health microdose is 149 bucks a month. The Noom GLP microdose program starts at 99 bucks is delivered to your door in seven days. Start your microdose GLP1 journey today at noom. Com. That's N O O m Com. NOOM Micro changes big results. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do, which is take a moment and support.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

The amazing sponsors who make this show.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Possible. All of the deals, discount codes and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the [e-mail] deals if you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code, just email me jordanordanharbinger.com I'm happy to surface codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. When we're talking about slowing cognitive decline, are we talking about very subtle.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Effects or is it really noticeable? Do you have any idea? I'm always curious about.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

This. It depends on what study or compound or lifestyle modification that we're talking about. So for example, if we're talking about like doing a 10 minute high intensity interval training session, there have been studies that show that immediately processing speed is it faster, reaction times faster, and so you perform better cognitively. Right. So that would be something that's noticeable immediately. But if we're talking about like a multivitamin, that's not something necessarily that's gonna be noticed. Particularly because like I said, and take us coming back to me, the study was actually two years long because they do these tests at the baseline and then they do them two years later. And you're comparing your progression because as we're older, as we reach the age of 65, brain atrophy, you start to lose between 1 to 2% of your brain mass per year. You know, losing brain mass, you're, you know, losing cognitive function along with it. Right. It's not just like you lose brain and everything stays the same. There are ways to counter that we can talk about with exercise. But so if we're talking about like a multivitamin, you know, you're not going to like, it's not like a nootropic kind of effect that you're going to necessarily feel like if I want that kind of effect, I go to the hit, I do like a quick, high intensity interval training, 10 minutes blood flow to the brain. Now, there have been some studies showing that taking plant polyphenols, for example, the EGCG that's found in like green tea or in cocoa, cocoa powder, that increases vasodilation, increases blood flow to the brain, which is obviously what exercise is also doing. So you're getting a similar effect. The exercise is more robust, but it does have this sort of immediate cognitive enhancing kind of effect where you perform better as well. When we're talking about delaying brain aging, oftentimes, yes, cognitive function is improved along with that. But it depends on what's being measured and what we're talking about, essentially. Right. So with these older adults, they are performing better on their cognitive test, and so will they necessarily know it? They might. After a couple of years they might. But it's not like you and I would notice it as a younger.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Person. You mentioned the high intensity interval training. So you said you do quick 10 minutes. Is that kind of the minimal effective dose? You'd say 10.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Minutes? I would say to really improve something like global executive function and speed up your reaction time, your processing speed as well. Yeah, I think 10 minutes is probably the minimal amount of time it has to be vigorous intensity exercise. So there was a study that compared light, moderate and vigorous. And when I talk about these, it really, it's funny because the definition kind of varies from study to study. But generally speaking, ballparking, when I talk about vigorous intensity exercise or when you read about vigorous intensity exercise, it's the kind of exercise that you're doing when you can't have a conversation, not even a breathy one. Oh, wow, you're really pushing hard. Your heart rate is 80% max at least. Right. So you're getting to that 80% max zone. Now, high intensity interval training isn't going to keep that vigorous intensity the entire 10 minutes. You're going to be pushing it for intervals and then recovering and then pushing it again and then recovering. Right. Because 10 minutes consistent of that would be a lot. Right. Of not being able to talk like that's almost impossible. So the high intensity interval training is really the best tool for that cognitive enhancement that's pretty immediate that I've seen. You can do these, what are called exercise snacks, which are also vigorous intensity exercise. You just do one or two minutes of something intense like a burpee, and get your heart rate up and you will feel better, you will feel more alert. I mean, it's pretty obvious that increasing the blood flow to your brain for like two minutes is doing something. And what's fascinating is that for the longest time, if you think about these exercise guidelines that we always hear about physical activity guidelines, it's always moderate intensity and vigorous intensity. And the vigorous intensity is like cut in half what the moderate intensity is. Right. So they'll say 150 to 300 minutes a week of moderate intensity exercise. Well, what is that? That's the kind of exercise that you can, that's not walking, but it's the kind of exercise that you're basically, you can have a breathy conversation, but you can still like talk. Well, when it's vigorous intensity, they say 75 to 150 minutes. Right. So it's cut in half. Well, it turns out there was this new study that just came out that researchers had these wearable devices on. I think it was the biobank data. People were wearing these wearable devices where researchers could track their heart rate. And people were doing these sort of vigorous intermittent lifestyle activity type of physical activity, which is like an exercise snack. So essentially they're not necessarily dropping down and doing burpees for two minutes. That's like a structured exercise snack. Like they're like taking advantage of everyday life situations and getting their heart rate up. So they're taking the stairs, but not only taking the stairs, they're getting after it. Right. They're kind of sprinting up the stairs and they're getting their heart rate up. Or instead of driving to work, perhaps they, you know, take a quick 5 minute bike ride to work or they're walking briskly to work because they live close to where they're at, whatever. Or they're doing housework and they're kind of really moving around. Whatever these lifestyle activities are that they're doing, they're getting their heart rate up for one to three minutes. What was interesting was a lot of data has come out where it's been shown that yes, people doing these vigorous types of snacks, these intermittent lifestyle snacks, they have a lower 40% lower all cause mortality, a 40% lower cancer related mortality, 50% lower cardiovascular related mortality than people not doing them. But this new study that came out was super interesting because it actually compared moderate intensity exercise to this sort of short burst of these exercise snacks and looked at outcomes as well. And it found that it wasn't a one to two ratio for moderate intensity versus vigorous intensity for lowering cardiovascular disease risk or cardiovascular related mortality. In fact, for every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, people had to do four minutes of moderate intensity exercise to get the same lowering effect for cardiovascular related mortality. So in other words, you gotta do four times as much exercise if you were doing moderate versus vigorous. And then for light, it was insane. It was like you're going. Some cases you were going like 54 times as much. So I don't know what's more important to you, but I like time, efficiency. And the fact of the matter is that vigorous exercise is definitely the king when it comes to reducing cardiovascular mortality, when it comes to all cause mortality, and slightly even more with cancer related mortality as well. Although that's the one that even any type of exercise really did have a beneficial.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Effect. That's interesting.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. I work out with my trainer three times a week and at the.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

End we do that like killer finisher where you're just beat, but then he's.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like, okay, rope climb times 20, kettlebell.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Swing times 20, toes to bar times 23 rounds. And you're just like, no breaks. And like at the end you're like, I'm gonna puke if I had any food in my belly. That's vigorous.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Right?

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Yeah. Before that I'm weight training, which I guess would be moderate. So I'm hoping that that three times a week is, is enough. It's a good.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Balance. It's quite amazing how low the bar really is.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Though. Any exercise is better than none and yet most of us don't really get any at.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

All. And even doing these short bursts of like one to two minutes three times a day, where you do get your heart rate up. Yeah, but it's so short. And this is even in people that identify themselves as non exercisers. So they don't have a trainer, they don't go to the gym, they're just doing that everyday stuff where they're getting their heart rate.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Up. Sprint up the stairs, be that.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Weirdo at work that sprints up the.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Stairs. It's the vigorous type of exercise that's so important for the brain. It's been shown, you know, and that has to do with the fact that you're producing lactate when you work really hard. And lactate is. It's not just the muscle burn, it's getting into the brain and it's signaling to the brain to activate a variety of important pathways, including something called brain derived neurotrophic factor.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Bdnf. I've heard of that.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yes. BDNF helps you grow new neurons. So as an adult, it's responsible for the growing of new neurons called neurogenesis. It's important for neuroplasticity, so it helps increase neuroplasticity, which goes down with age. Neuroplasticity helps your brain adapt to a changing environment. If your brain can't adapt to the changing environment, you're not gonna be able to keep up. So it really is important for cognition. That's also important for mood. If you can't adapt to a changing environment, people get depressed and neuroplasticity decreased. Neuroplasticity is something often found with depression as well. And so it's also important for learning and memory. You know, I talked about how when you're in older age, once you reach the age of 65, you start to lose between 1 to 2% of brain mass per year. And particularly in a region called the hippocampus, part of your brain, which is the part of the brain that's really largely responsible for learning and memory. And so that's terrible because it's, you know, you're losing that part of your brain and then it's like, how am I going to remember or learn anything? You know, as the years go by. And there was a great study that was published. It's been a while. I think the study came out in like 2012, but it was a randomized control trial in older adults who were either in an exercise group or they were in the control group. And the control group was this sort of stretching. So they thought they were getting a treatment, right? Placebo controls are important. They thought they were getting a treatment, but it was actually not the treatment. It was a stretching control. The exercise group were doing on the moderate to vigorous scale of physical activity. And they're doing it three times a week, 30 minutes each session. And it was largely aerobic exercise. They did do a little bit of muscle strengthening stuff, but it was largely aerobic exercise. And by the end of the year long trial, those older adults that were in the exercise group, not only did they not lose the 2% of their hippocampal brain region, they gained.

[Jordan Harbinger]

2%.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Wow. They gained 1 to 2%. So they were not only not losing it, they were increasing the growth of new neurons. Right. That B DNF activation from the exercise was growing new neurons to replace what they were losing through normal aging. And it was not only replacing it, it was actually adding mass. So important as we get older. So there's every reason to want to do aerobic types of exercise. Again, lactate's very important because you're activating that B, D, N, F, which is what is Growing the new neurons, they gained their brain mass, but they also had improved cognition. So they both went hand in hand. Right. Which is what you want to see. Right. You don't want to see someone gaining brain mass, but still not performing well in their cognitive.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Tests. Ideally not, no. You mentioned before.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Magnesium. Another thing I.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Take. I take Omega 3. I take a bunch of vitamin D. I was deficient in both of those things, but I'm trying to think of something I take that I'm not deficient in or that I. Oh.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Creatine. Here's something that I've been taking for.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Forever. It used to be like, gym pumps or.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Whatever. I read something online recently.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

That. Oh, it like, it has cognitive.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Benefits. Is that true, or is that.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Creatine being like, hey, we need to market harder? Let's say we have cognitive.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Benefits. No, it's definitely true. I'm probably responsible for that. Whatever you read, it.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Might. You might have been. That might have been why I noted it here in the show.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Notes. Yeah. It's funny. Creatine has been around forever. I have not taken it forever. I started taking it, I would say, like, two years ago, year and a half to two years ago, because I. That's when I started to really get into strength training and resistance.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Training.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Okay. I also have a coach, and I'm deadlifting. I'm doing Olympic weightlifting and stuff. And so I started taking creatine around then for my muscle. And if you look at all the data out there, 5 grams a day is what you really need to have, you know, improved muscular performance. And so people listening, going, you said five grams. Yes, but don't. We're gonna expand on that. I'm saying that's what I was taking in the past.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Tense.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yes. So creatine is something that our body does make. We make about 1 to 2 grams in our liver, and we also make something similar like that in our brain as well. It's very important because creatine gets stored in our muscle, in our brain as creatine phosphate. And creatine phosphate is essentially donating a phosphate group so that you can make energy. So phosphates, it's called ATP. You've probably heard of ATP before.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Adenosine. Oh, I remember that from maybe.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Middle school, high school, something like.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

That.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. Well, ATP is the energetic currency in our body. Right. That's energy. Without ATP, we would die. We would have. No, we couldn't make energy. And ATP is essentially adenosine triphosphate. There's three phosphate groups on it. You need to add Those phosphates. So every time you use energy, you use one of those phosphates, you have adp, adenosine diphosphate, two of them. So then you have to add one back to make energy again. So you want to keep recycling it. Right. So that you can have energy. Creatine phosphate is essentially doing that. It's storing that phosphate to give you the energy. Right. So it's why your muscles love it, particularly when you're working out, because you're using up so much energy and you need to recycle it really quickly. Right. And so that's why creatine comes in handy. So, yeah, the creatine that you make from your liver, your muscles are very, very greedy and they consume most of that creatine because they're largely like using a lot of energy. And so there have been studies that have found if you supplement on top of what your body makes, 5 grams is really enough. At 5 grams, your muscles start to get saturated. At least over a course of a month. They get saturated, that's enough. So they take in the 5 grams that you're supplementing with and they're great. And that will improve your training volume. So it's not gonna like increase muscle protein synthesis in the way protein would. Where you're gaining muscle mass, it's making you work out better and that's why you're getting muscle mass. Right. Because you're performing better with your exercise. Yeah, it's improving training volume. You're doing an extra like one to three reps per set. So that all said and done, I was doing the 5 grams a day because that's what all the science showed is what you need. And your muscles are saturated after.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

That.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. Then it turns out more and more researchers out there in the creatine field were looking at other organs and particularly the brain. And that's something I'm super interested in, as, you know, brain health. There was a study out of Germany showing that it takes about 10 grams before you start to accumulate creatine in certain brain regions. Five grams. I just told you, your muscles are greedy. They take it all in. And so if you're only supplementing with five, that's great for your workouts. Right. It's great for your improving your training volume. But what's left over for the brain, there's not a lot of spillover. Right. And so you have to get to that like 10 gram range. And it wasn't until about 10 grams that creatine storage were saw to increase, to be seen to increase in Brain regions. And so that's why now I've shifted from 5 to 10 grams a day as my baseline. Okay. There have been some other studies that have found that creatine works. It's not just like you take creatine and like sit around and do nothing and it's gonna do this, all these miracles, right? It works well when you're putting in effort. It works well when you're stressing your body. So exercise is a type of stress, right? You're stressing your, you're using the energy, it's helping replenish that. Right. Same goes for the brain. It works well in a stressed context. So stress could be in the form of sleep deprivation. Like you're not getting enough sleep or your work related stress, your emotional related stress. I personally have a lot of cognitive stress every day. I'm learning a lot of material. I'm. It's very stressful on me. So I think that I'm stressed constantly in that regard. I feel like my brain's constantly stressed, but that's where this, the creatine shines. And so studies have found, for example, people that are sleep deprived, if they supplement with between 20 to 25 grams of creatine, depending on their body weight, not only does the cognitive deficits that usually appear when you're totally sleep deprived not appear in people that took the creatine, they actually performed better than their baseline levels when they were actually getting enough sleep, which is.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Astounding.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Wow. You know, your brain consumes a lot of energy as well. It's a very energetically demanding muscle. So it makes sense that creatine would be very beneficial for the brain as well, particularly when there's stress around. Right? That's when you need extra energy, when there's stress around. And so like I said, My 10 grams a day is my baseline one, based off that German study where I know it's accumulating in the brain. Two, because my anecdotal data has shown me that If I take 10 grams a day, I don't get afternoon sleepiness at all.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Anymore. Oh man, I need that. Everyone just perked up at.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

That. It could be a placebo effect. I'm not gonna discount that. It's very possible. I've done it. I've only had my 5 grams and I'm, I get the sleepy and it's, it's, I've done it so many times and like I said, it could totally be placebo. Cause I know I'm like, oh, I didn't get the 5 grams. But there's plausible mechanistic data out there to explain why it would work as well. And so I think that it's very possible that's why I'm not getting the afternoon sleepiness anymore. And when I'm traveling and I go to a different time zone, I just got back from China like a month ago, I take 20 grams and it's life changing. It's a huge game changer for.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Me. Like every day while you're over.

[Jordan Harbinger]

There.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Basically. No, I took it for like the first three to four days when I first got to China. We're talking like, your body wants to be asleep when it's awake and awake when you're asleep. When I first got to China, I had to get up the next day and give a talk. I had to like go do Q&As. I had to like be on, on my game. And I was able to really, like, I was doing a great job. I was like very cognitive on my game. And I took my 20 grams, I had like my one cup of coffee and I was great. So for me, it really helps with the just being able to perform well again. Maybe it's placebo, but there's studies showing that it has been shown to do.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That. It's so cheap. Just take it. Like, it's.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Not. This is such a cheap supplement you can get and mess with for yourself and see if it works. And even if it's placebo, take.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

It. Well, let's talk about that. Because for one, all the gym bros out there already know this. Creatine monohydrate, right? Like that's the form you have to take. And I would say, yes, that is the form you should take. It's the one that's a hundred percent going to work. With that said, you do want to look for a legitimate brand. So for one, don't take gummies. Okay? Like this study just came out, I don't know, a couple months ago, 98% of all creatine gummies out there had no creatine in it.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Zero. That does not surprise me. No.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Surprise. Yeah. Zero. Well, if you talk to any supplement manufacturers and ask them, hey, how easy is it to dissolve supplements into a gummy? And they're gonna be like, it's so hard. It's so hard to dissolve it, to actually get it to dissolve into the gummy. And then you have to heat it up and like, things are heat sensitive and all sorts of like, problems occur. So don't take gummies too. I think you should look for an NSF certification on it because there are a lot of creatine powders out there that have little hitchhiking heavy metals like lead that get into it. And so I take Thorne because it is NSF certified as well. I'm sure there's some other brands out there. That's the one I take. I also like them because they have travel packets, 5 gram travel packets. And so every time I'm traveling, I have all my packets with me and I'm taking my four packets a.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Day. Yeah, you don't want to bring a giant bag of white powder through.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

TSA and have to explain that. I've done that many.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Times. And I label it.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Creatine.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Yes. And it's worked so far with my Sharpie on there. So that's only a matter of time till my luck runs out, I think on.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

That. Right? Yeah. I'm a big believer in the brain effects and there's a lot of other mechanisms besides the energy production as well. It's been shown to like, lower inflammation. And to make creatine in your body, it demands a lot of methyl groups. So methylation is something that's important for gene expression. So you might have heard of.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Epigenetics.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. These methyl groups are just carbons with three hydrogens on them and they're all around our DNA and they're in certain patterns and those patterns will activate genes or they're turn off genes in certain ways. So they're very important. But those methylation groups, you need to get them right, you need to make them and they need to be used. But in order to make creatine, you have to use them as well. So it's a big sink. Actually, 40% of all methylation made is used to make creatine. So when you supplement with creatine, you're actually freeing up those methylation groups to be used for other things. So it's also really important for that as well. It's on my top list of supplements now for the brain. I give it to my mom. I mean, I wish my dad would take it, but he won't. He takes the Centrum silver. Like he's been doing that for like decades, like without me even telling him. That's like the pill.

[Jordan Harbinger]

He's. Why wouldn't you take.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Creatine? It's just like, that's such a low bar. It's just two little.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Capsules. I've got him taking Omega 3 and vitamin D and the powder is just too much to.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Ask. What about capsules? They do have Creatine.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Capsules. He could just take two of those if.

[Jordan Harbinger]

He'S. Because it is gross to.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Dissolve. It doesn't dissolve you. To put the creatine in the water and it tastes like.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Sand. If he won't do that, just give him.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Capsules. Maybe he'll do.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

That. The capsules, you have to take a lot because you need like to get the brain effects. 10 grams, like, there's just no.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Way that's just four.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Capsules. Really? Are they two and a half.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Grams? Yeah, they're.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Bulky. Yeah, I'll look into it. I'll look into.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It. I definitely have to have you come back because we didn't talk about sauna, cold therapy, coffee, a little bit.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

About brain fog, cancer stuff, alcohol. I mean, I have all these notes, but I'll have to save it for next.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Time. I gotta ask, does your kitchen.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Look like a laboratory with all the little supplements you have or are you.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Pretty? It.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Does. It.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Does. My pantry, almost whole half, I would say three fourths of that side is.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Supplements.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Yeah. And then when you go into my actual kitchen, there's this cubby hole in my kitchen where like it's supposed to be for the toaster and you have a little door that slides down and make it like you can't see all the electronics. That's where all my supplements are that I use on a daily basis, you know, and the pantry's like my.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Stock, so it's like a.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Pharmacy. I do take a lot of supplements. I do take ones that are most evidence based. But for sure, it's definitely a little bit crazy if you were to come see my.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

House. I think next time I'll ask you for your whole stack because it's not a short explanation if you've got that much real estate dedicated to.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. It's a pleasure to see you.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

And talk to you again. It's been so long. I won't wait 10 years before the next round. We'll get something on the.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Books. Sounds.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Good. Coming.

[Dr. Rhonda Patrick]

Soon. Thanks. Enjoyed.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It. You're about to hear a preview where UBA Butler pulls back the curtain on how fake five star reviews, viral hype and algorithmic blind spots quietly shape what we believe is.

[UBA Butler]

Real. The whole idea of the restaurant was that it was an appointment only restaurant. So no walk ins. It shocked me how much work people were doing in their own minds to build up the idea and the gravitas of this fake establishment. And yeah, people were doing anything they could to get a table and the more the phone calls increased, the more people that called me, the more people that wanted to talk to me, the more that I told them they couldn't come and the more they wanted to come. People curate their lives based on consensus. The whole thing for me comes from a place of curiosity as well. And it also started this process of beginning to question slightly these platforms which we all considered to be completely trustworthy. I don't know exactly how many people went in search of it, but it must have been significant because we were getting hundreds of people trying to book and yeah, it became the number one rated restaurant in London. How far could the bollocks go? And it hit me that maybe the end of the story was to open it for one night only and serve real customers, real food. If enough people say something is great, will you deny the fact that you've got a bad meal in front of you? You will you deny your taste buds and buy into the nonsense? That's what I did. I basically opened my garden shed for one night only to see, like, whether people would believe the reviews they'd read online more than their objective experience. We really are living in the golden age of bullshit. It is so easy to convincingly lie to.

[Jordan Harbinger]

People. Check out episode 1235 where Uba Butler exposes just how fragile online trust really is. Fantastic conversation. Tons of practical takeaways here. And this is just scratching the surface of what Dr. Patrick dives into regularly. So if you want more deep dive science on micronutrients, brain health, longevity, sauna protocols, cancer prevention, all the latest research that she's pulling apart, definitely check.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Out her podcast and newsletter over at Found My.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Fitness. She drops insanely detailed breakdowns, study summaries and tools you can actually put to work. Links to her podcast, newsletter and everything we talked about today will of course be in the show notes along with transcripts and ways to support the show. Those deals are all searchable and clickable on the deals [e-mail] deals please consider supporting those who support the show. Also, our newsletter Wee Bit Wiser. We're writing this every single week. It is a two minute read or less. It is practical. It's something that'll have an immediate.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Impact on your decisions, psychology and relationships. If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Out. It really is a great companion to the show. Jordanharbinger.com news is where you can find it. Don't forget about six minute networking as well at sixminutenetworking.com I'm ordanharbinger on Twitter and.

[Guest/Co-host (possibly a health expert or interviewer)]

Instagram. You can also connect with me.

[Jordan Harbinger]

On LinkedIn and this show is created in association with podcast one and my team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Tata Sidlowskis, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. In fact, the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in health, especially cognition and brain health, definitely share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. Huge thanks to NOOM for sponsoring this conversation and supporting the Jordan Harbinger Show. If weight loss or improving your health is something you've been thinking about, especially in a way that's sustainable, check out Noom. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the pricing initial 3 weeks subscription and 4 weeks of medication from $99 plus tax and $199 per month plus tax for the 12 week subscription thereafter. Final pricing depends on program selection. As far as the GLP1 program, new microdose GLP1 Rx program involves healthy diet, exercise, medication when appropriate and support individual results vary meds and personalization based on clinical need as determined by a third party clinician, not reviewed by FDA for safety, efficacy or quality and not available in all 50 US.