Remote Viewing | Skeptical Sunday

The Jordan Harbinger Show, Ep. 1304 (March 29, 2026)
With Jordan Harbinger & Nick Pell

Episode Overview

In this Skeptical Sunday edition, Jordan Harbinger and researcher Nick Pell take a deep dive into "remote viewing" — the claim that people can perceive distant or hidden targets via extrasensory perception (ESP). They explore the wild history of government-funded psychic research, dissect the scientific claims, and unravel decades of pseudoscience, bureaucratic follies, and why the U.S. government spent millions trying to train psychic spies. The duo offers a skeptical, entertaining, and deeply informative breakdown for anyone curious about the stranger corners of Cold War science.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

What is Remote Viewing?

• Definition: The ability to "see" distant, unseen targets (places, objects, events) using supposed psychic powers (ESP).
  • Nick Pell [03:08]: "The strictest definition of remote viewing is the ability to perceive distant and unseen targets using extrasensory perception, commonly known as ESP."
• Framed as a "scientized" version of clairvoyance, intending to sound more credible than "psychic" or "astral projection."

Historical Context & Early Research

• Origin: U.S. government interest sparked in the 1960s/70s amid Cold War paranoia — partially in response to alleged Soviet ESP research.
• JB Rhine:
  • Parapsychology pioneer at Duke; tried to conduct scientific studies on ESP but with flawed methods and poor replicability.
  • Nick Pell [08:09]: "He's a serious scientist, but... he's kind of not a very good one. The general consensus is that he's not a fraud. He's just... He has really bad methodology."
• Rhine Research Center still active, focusing more on "explaining how ESP works" than on proving it exists.

Remote Viewing, Project Stargate, and Cold War Weirdness

• Project Stargate (and predecessors: Grill Flame, Sun Streak, etc.): Military program at Fort Meade (formally consolidated in 1991, ended 1995) to test and operationalize remote viewing.
• Prompted by: Reports that the Soviets were spending vast sums on psychic research (~$125M/year in modern dollars).
• Nick Pell [10:56]: "You're going to think this is nuts. 1991... They actually closed this project in 1995."
• Jordan [11:01]: "So as recently as when I'm 11 years old, the government is still trying to figure out how to train soldiers to see things on the other side of the planet with their mind."

Science or Pseudoscience?

• Protocols:
  • Sessions were supposedly “double-blind,” with a facilitator guiding a “viewer” unaware of the target (often just random coordinates or photos).
  • Derived from attempts to “make psychic phenomena scientific.”
• The field was largely shaped by Ingo Swann (artist, self-proclaimed psychic), and researchers Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff at Stanford Research Institute (SRI).
• SRI: Originally affiliated with Stanford University but independent since the 1970s.

Famous Psychics (and Flimflam)

• Uri Geller:
  • Mentalist popularized "spoon bending." Studied at SRI, but exposed thoroughly as a magician using tricks — unable to perform under test conditions (famously humiliated on Johnny Carson's show with James Randi present).
  • Nick Pell [23:19]: "He was completely exposed by James Randi as not doing real magic."
• Notable magicians (Penn & Teller, Oz Perlman) regularly emphasize their acts are tricks, not magic — unlike many "psychics."

Scientific Community Response

• Major papers in Nature and IEEE journals, but widely criticized for poor methodology; claims of double-blind protocols often false.
• Cueing Contamination: "Viewers" could be influenced by subtle or unconscious cues, destroying experiment integrity.
• Jordan [38:16]: "So many vague adjectives. Big object. Okay, so is it a Mack truck? A skyscraper, a planet?...A lot of descriptions were at that level of detail."
• Replication — crucial in science — never succeeded for Rhine, SRI, or military studies.
• Authority halo: Some credence was given because “real scientists” and “government officials” were involved.

Why Did the Government Fund This For So Long?

• Nick Pell [36:51]: "A lot of reasons, ranging from wishful thinking to government largesse to bad methodology. The line item for this compared to nukes is tiny, and everyone working on it wanted it to be real."
• Cold War mindset: Spending on any potential advantage felt justified, no matter how unlikely. “If the Soviets are doing it, we can’t fall behind,” even if results were nil.

Results: Was Anything Ever Found?

• No actionable intelligence was ever generated by remote viewing programs.
  • Nick Pell [36:11]: "They could not point to a single example where remote viewing produced actionable intelligence."
• Occasional "hits" (like spotting a crane near a Soviet facility) were explainable by chance, leaks, or the vagueness of descriptions.
  • Jordan [41:19]: "Pat Price was a former police officer who claimed he was seeing underground bases guarded by aliens."
• Final government review:
  • Statistically “interesting,” but "operationally useless."
  • Nick Pell [40:24]: "There wasn't a single case where remote viewing gave unique verifiable information. These studies were junk."
• Psychological explanations:
  • Apophenia: Pattern-seeking; brains connect unrelated data.
  • Confirmation bias: Cherry-picking hits after the fact.
  • Barnum statements: Vague enough to fit almost anything.
  • Experimenter bias: Facilitators unwittingly influencing outcomes.

Where Did All the ‘Psychic Spies’ Go?

• Many transitioned to selling remote viewing courses to the public ($79 to $3,000+ for “master” classes).
  • Nick Pell [46:09]: "They went commercial. Joseph McMonagle... he currently sells programs on mastering remote viewing, among other things."
• SRI became SRI International, now famous for creating Siri (the Apple voice assistant).
• The psychic research was always a tiny component at SRI.
• Popular non-fiction/fiction continues to mine this material (e.g., The Men Who Stare at Goats by Jon Ronson).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Pseudoscience in Serious Places

• Nick Pell [04:59]: “Parapsychology is, like, psychic stuff. So it’s like, bullshit. It’s a scientific field that studies something that is not real. So far, yeah.”

On Remote Viewing Protocols

• Nick Pell [19:57]: “Eventually the target just becomes a string of random numbers... The viewer goes through a series of steps or stages to determine what the target is. It’s a whole process that runs from basic vague impressions to detailed 3D modeling.”

On Mentalists vs. Psychics

• Jordan [25:10]: “It doesn’t make it any less cool or impressive. It’s actually more impressive because if it’s magic… But if you’re like, ‘How did he know the girl I kissed in preschool?’ That’s just outright incredible.”

On The Scientific Method (or Lack Thereof)

• Nick Pell [27:36]: “The scientific community figured out that they weren’t following standard protocols… despite claims of being double blind, there was tons of evidence that the viewers were being given cues about their targets.”
• Jordan [50:40]: “Scientists, even well meaning ones, can and do make mistakes. And in the case of remote viewing, some were true believers who saw what they wanted, while others were probably just there for a check.”

On Apophenia and Confirmation Bias

• Nick Pell [43:08]: “What a lot of remote viewers described could be considered Barnum statements. These are statements that are generic enough that they could be describing just about anything.”

Notable Timestamps

• [02:15] — Introduction to Project Stargate and remote viewing as government project
• [04:53] — Founding of parapsychology and JB Rhine’s studies
• [07:30] — Classic ESP tests and failure to replicate
• [09:42] — Genesis of U.S. military psychic programs, Stargate consolidation
• [19:24] — “Remote viewing protocols” and how sessions were structured
• [22:07] — Origin of protocols, Ingo Swann, SRI, and Uri Geller’s involvement
• [27:15] — Pushback from scientific journals, methodological criticisms
• [36:11] — “They did not...” — finding: 0 intelligence produced by remote viewing
• [40:24] — Government’s official assessment: “operationally useless”
• [42:24] — Psychological explanations: apophenia, confirmation bias, etc.
• [46:22] — Emergence of commercial courses and ongoing “psychic” grift
• [48:14] — SRI today—post-remote viewing, creation of Siri

Conclusion & Lessons

• After over 20 years and millions of dollars, the U.S. government confirmed there is no evidence that remote viewing works; no actionable intelligence was generated.
• The persistence of belief (and profit) in remote viewing is due to wishful thinking, Cold War paranoia, and the compelling allure of the “secret government program” narrative.
• The story is less about psychic powers and more about the importance of good scientific methods, skepticism, and the all-too-human tendency to see what we wish were true.

Final Takeaway:
Remote viewing remains a textbook case of how easily science can be led astray when wishful thinking, poor methodology, and bureaucratic incentives collide. The real lesson: Learn basic scientific concepts like double-blind testing, and beware pseudoscience, even when it wears a badge or carries a hefty research grant.

For Further Reading & Listening

• CIA’s declassified 1995 Stargate documents
• American Institutes for Research review (Utz & Hyman)
• James Randi’s exposé of Uri Geller
• “The Men Who Stare at Goats” by Jon Ronson

(See show notes for links.)