1307: Water Filters | Skeptical Sunday

Summary

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The Jordan Harbinger Show

Episode 1307: Water Filters | Skeptical Sunday

Original Release: April 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

On this "Skeptical Sunday," host Jordan Harbinger and co-host Jessica Wynne dive deep into the world of water filters. From the ancient origins of water purification to the modern cottage industry of kitchen gadgets, they break down the facts, myths, and marketing ploys behind home water filtration. Why do so many people filter their water today? Are home filters truly necessary, or just a reflection of our anxieties and desire for control? The duo debunks common misconceptions, explains the science of purification, and offers practical guidance for anyone considering a filter—while questioning the dogma of “pure” water.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise of Home Water Filtration

• Cultural Shift: Thirty years ago, few Americans filtered their water; drinking from the tap or hose was the norm. Now, filtering is ubiquitous—why?
• Perceptions of Risk: Modern skepticism, big contamination stories, outdated regulations, and the desire for “control” have led to widespread adoption.
• Marketing, Not Crisis: The home filtration industry originated not from disaster but from a German man (Heinz Hankammer) seeking better tea in 1966.
  Quote [07:03]:
  A: "So there wasn't some, you know, watershed moment. But no pun intended. That's so anticlimactic. Somehow the guy was like, oh, my tea tastes like crap. Let me figure this out."

2. Historical Water Purification

• Ancient Solutions: Egyptians, Greeks, and early civilizations used sand, charcoal, and other materials for basic filtration, driven by a belief that “bad-smelling” (miasmatic) water caused illness.
• Scientific Progress: Not until the 19th century did knowledge shift to bacteria and waterborne illnesses—leading to modern municipal treatment and the chlorination of city water.
• Municipal Marvels: By the 20th century, most Americans had the safest water in human history, courtesy of centralized infrastructure—not kitchen gadgets.

3. Hard vs. Soft Water and Filtration Types

• Definitions:
  • Hard water: High mineral content (calcium, magnesium), leaves scale, and reduces soap efficiency ([09:02]-[09:58]).
  • Soft water: Low minerals; easier on appliances and skin.
• Filters vs. Softeners:
  • Softeners remove minerals but not pollutants.
  • Filters remove contaminants like chlorine, lead, and bacteria.
• Matching Solutions to Problems:
  Quote [11:19]:
  B: "Step one, test your water...If your main concern is scale buildup...a softener is usually enough. If you've got health related contaminants, you'll want a filter."

4. What Do Filters Actually Remove?

• Types of Filtration:
  • Activated carbon: Adsorbs (“sticks”) chemicals like chlorine, improves taste/odor.
  • Reverse osmosis: Removes most contaminants, but also beneficial minerals (e.g., fluoride) and wastes water.
  • Distillation: Boils and condenses water—effective but energy-intensive.
  • UV & mechanical filters: Kill or trap bacteria, remove larger particles.
• Performance Varies Wildly:
  • Not all filters are equal. Many generic/Amazon cartridges do little or nothing.
• Maintenance is Crucial:
  Quote [24:07]:
  B: "A neglected filter can make your water dirtier than your tap. So if nothing else comes from this conversation, please go change your water filters."

5. What Can’t Filters Remove?

• Limitations: Basic pitchers can’t remove nitrates, hormones, viruses, or microplastics entirely ([21:49], [25:58]). Even advanced systems like reverse osmosis rarely get 100% of microplastics.
• Microplastics Are Everywhere:
  Quote [26:01]:
  B: "We are ingesting microplastics and researchers are still figuring out what that means for our long term health."
• Plastic Containers Compound the Problem: Water stored in plastic bottles/pitchers accumulates more microplastics.

6. How Safe is U.S. Tap Water?

• Mostly Safe: Over 90% of Americans get water exceeding federal standards (Safe Drinking Water Act, [26:57]).
• But...Asterisks:
  • Regulations are outdated (1970s).
  • Local variation is huge—15 million homes on unregulated wells; old pipes can leach lead and rust.
  • Specific disasters (Flint, MI; Jackson, MS) reveal systemic neglect and inequality.
• Source Variation:
  • NYC’s famous tap water is naturally soft and clean; other regions have more treatment needs or contamination.

7. Scams & Pseudoscience

• Sales Tactics:
  • Fear-based door-to-door sales.
  • Staged “tests” to sell unnecessary, overpriced systems.
  • Planned obsolescence: expensive proprietary filters, recurring costs ([34:59]).
• Pseudoscientific Claims:
  • "Alkaline," "structured," "energy-infused"—none have meaningful health effects. Quote [36:04]:
    B: "It's complete bullshit. Your body regulates its own PH incredibly tightly...So drinking alkaline water does not change your blood pH, and if it did, you would drop dead."

8. Bottled Water Myths

• It’s Usually Tap:
  • “Purified” simply means processed—often the same as tap but in a bottle, with a massive markup ([41:08]). Quote [41:08]:
    B: "Those bottles labeled purified are just full of tap water that's packaged, branded and resold."
  • Famous brands often just repackage municipal water (e.g., Dasani=Coca-Cola tap).
• Less Regulation:
  • Bottled water is regulated by the FDA, not the EPA, and often has laxer testing than tap ([44:01]).
• Environmental Impact:
  • 600 billion plastic bottles a year, microplastic ingestion, pollution ([42:46]).

9. Practical Guidance

• How to Choose a Filter:
  • Test Your Water: Use city reports or independent labs.
  • Match to Need: Only buy what solves your specific issues (taste, mineral content, contaminants).
  • Look for Certifications: NSF/WQA only ([40:07]).
  • Read Reviews/Warn Against Scams: Don't rely on unsolicited tests or sketchy Amazon products. Quote [39:29]:
    B: "Test your water independently. Don't rely on someone who's also selling you the cure..."
• Cost Comparison:
  • Filter pitchers ($60/year), under-sink ($400 up front), whole-house ($1,000–$3,000)—all cheaper and greener long-term than bottled water ([45:07]).
• Maintenance: Change filters on schedule to avoid making water quality worse.

10. Shower/Whole Home Filtration

• Low Actual Risk: Filtering shower water is rarely necessary for most. Small benefit for sensitive skin or heavy chlorination ([48:29]).
• Marketing Gimmicks: Spa, quartz, “aura-exfoliating” systems are wellness theater, not science.

11. Health Outcomes

• Filtering mostly provides taste/peace of mind for most—except in cases of lead pipes or well water, where it is essential ([52:22]).
• No Conclusive Evidence that most filtering makes people measurably healthier.

12. Broader Issues: Infrastructure, Inequality, & Climate

• Clean water is as much a political and social issue as a personal one.
• Infrastructure failures and climate change threaten future water quality ([53:21]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On marketing over substance ([36:32]):
  A: "They're just selling the emotional comfort of purity, not actual purity...It’s so irritating."
• On scams ([34:59]):
  B: "It's planned obsolescence, but for hydration."
• On bottled water ([41:08]):
  B: "Those bottles labeled purified are just full of tap water that's packaged, branded and resold."
• On microplastics ([26:01]):
  B: "We are ingesting microplastics and researchers are still figuring out what that means for our long term health."
• On infrastructure and politics ([53:21]):
  B: "Water quality isn't just personal, it is political. So filters can help individuals, but they're a band aid on systemic neglect."

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Important Timestamps

• 01:34 – Episode theme & format, introduction of topic
• 03:17 – Why do we filter now? Origins of modern anxiety
• 04:53 – Historical methods of water purification
• 07:03 – Brita’s founding over a cup of tea
• 09:02 – What is "hard" vs. "soft" water?
• 11:19 – How to test what type of filter you need
• 12:06 – Are US standards outdated, and does it matter?
• 13:32 – Emerging contaminants and regulatory lag
• 14:00 – How common home filtration works
• 17:01 – Purification technologies and matching them to problems
• 21:49 – What basic filters can’t remove (nitrates, hormones, etc.)
• 25:58 – Microplastics: inescapable, reduced but not eliminated
• 26:57 – Actual safety of the US water supply
• 32:02 – Case study: Flint, MI water crisis and inequality
• 33:18 – Fear-based and scammy sales tactics
• 34:59 – Pseudoscience and planned obsolescence
• 39:29 – How to protect yourself: independent testing, certifications
• 41:08 – The myth of “purified” bottled water
• 45:07 – Cost comparison: filtering vs. bottled water
• 48:29 – Shower filters and their (limited) justification
• 52:10 – Is filtered water healthier? What the evidence says
• 53:21 – Climate change, infrastructure, and systemic solutions
• 53:59 – “Bottom line” for consumers: Test, don’t trust hype

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Conclusion & Actionable Takeaways

• Don’t panic, test: Start with your actual water report or an independent test before investing in filtration.
• Match tech to problem: Only buy what your water quality needs; certification (NSF/WQA) matters.
• Maintain your investment: Replace filters regularly—old filters can be worse than no filter.
• Bottled water ≠ better: It’s frequently just repackaged, less-regulated tap water, with major environmental downsides.
• Beware of scams and pseudoscience: Fear-based sales, magical claims, and expensive systems usually aren’t worth it.
• Systemic change matters: Individual action is not a substitute for public infrastructure investment and regulatory transparency.

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"A good filter can clean your water, but it can't clean government corruption... the goal isn't just clean water, it's clean information."
— Jordan Harbinger, [54:27]

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Transcript

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co host, writer and researcher Jessica Wynn on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. And during the week we we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. On Sundays though, we do Skeptical Sunday, a rotating guest co host and I are going to break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as circumcision, astrology, acupuncture, the death industry, weddings, fast fashion, hypnosis and more. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest Our episode starter packs that these are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults, and more that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, we're looking at what's up with water filters and purifiers. If you care what's in your water glass, and you probably should, you've also probably invested in some kind of water purifier. A pitcher in your fridge and an attachment on your faucet. A whole integrated filtration system somewhere in the garage. Or perhaps just cases upon cases of purified bottled water. But what do you need to know about these systems and what benefits do they offer? Are they necessary? Everybody wants pure water. But between marketing, pseudoscience and scams, how pure is the truth? Here to filter out the nonsense is writer and researcher Jessica Wynne. So come on, Jay. Our grandparents drank from the hose. Why is it so common today to filter everything?

[B]

Ooh la la. Our grandparents. I remember drinking from the hose. Like I can remember that tinny taste so vividly. And then I'd go in the house and drink straight from the tap. In our neighborhood growing up, we used to open the fire hydrants in the summer and make DIY pools in the back of pickup trucks. No one ever mentioned filters, not once.

[A]

Yeah, it wasn't really a concept 30 years ago. So what happened? Now we're filtering everything because the water quality has actually dropped, or do we not really need to be doing this? Is it a trend? Is it just mass hysteria?

[B]

It's incredibly subjective. So water filters claim to improve taste and odor, provide a cost effective and eco friendly alternative to bottled water, and protect against contaminants like lead, bacteria, and chemicals. But most tap water is fine.

[A]

So should we have distrust about our tap water? That's terrifying to even ask. Why is everyone skeptical of the kitchen faucet? Should we all be boiling like it's $18.99? I don't know.

[B]

Look, I'm part of the club that absolutely refuses to drink tap water unless it's filtered through my Brita, in which I haven't changed the filter in probably months.

[A]

Yeah. By the way, filter negligence. That's gross.

[B]

I know, I know, I know. But object impermanence is a real struggle with filters and just me in general, I guess.

[A]

Before we get into modern filters, how did people filter water before things like Brita historically Did people bother doing it at all? They must have, certainly.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Humans have always filtered water. So ancient civilizations used sand, gravel, even charcoal. The ancient Egyptians and Greeks figured out that running water through layers of different materials would clarify it. And there's actually Sanskrit texts from around 2000 BCE that describe water treatment methods too.

[A]

So we've always known dirty water was bad.

[B]

Yeah, but the reasons changed. Back then, people thought bad water carried evil spirits or something they called miasma, which meant foul odors were causing diseases. So they were wrong about why it made you sick, but right about not drinking swamp water.

[A]

Well, even a broken clock twice a day. Something, something.

[B]

Yeah, right. Then fast forward to the 1800s. People started understanding bacteria and waterborne diseases. London had a massive cholera outbreak in 1854, and the water supply was contaminated.

[A]

Ah, okay. And that's when cities started fixing their pipes and building real treatment systems.

[B]

Right, exactly. London began chlorinating water and adding filtration systems. So they basically reinvented the whole infrastructure of the city. And then other places followed.

[A]

So for most of human history, filtering water wasn't some fancy consumer choice. It was basic survival in public health.

[B]

Yeah, right. And municipal water treatment here in the United States really took off in the early 1900s. By mid century, most Americans had access to treated tap water that was safer than any water in human history. And our infrastructure gave us water that was filtered for everyone.

[A]

So when did it become a personal responsibility? When did we go from eh, city handles this to oh, I need a personal water filter for my house?

[B]

Yeah, that's the interesting shift. So Brita was founded in 1966, not because of any catastrophic contamination event, but because a German guy named Heiss Honkammer wanted a perfect cup of tea.

[A]

What? So there wasn't some, you know, watershed moment. But no pun intended. That's so anticlimactic. Somehow the guy was like, oh, my tea tastes like crap. Let me figure this out.

[B]

Yeah, this guy Hancommer made a cup of tea with filtered water for whatever reason one time, and he noticed it was clearer, it had a better aroma, he thought it tasted better. And he was like, hell, yeah. So he founded the company Brita, which was his daughter's name, with the goal of optimizing tap water for home use. By 1970, the first Brita jug was patented and launched.

[A]

So the entire home filtration industry exists because one German dude was just really precious about his tea.

[B]

Yeah, people take their tea very seriously. And they should. Side note here, civilized people pour water over the tea bag. If you drop Your tea bag into water. People are judging you. That's just how I was raised.

[A]

Well, strong tea opinions, I respect it. I disagree with it, but I respect it. You gotta be using loose leaf tea because 100% of tea bags have microplastics in them. But anyway.

[B]

Okay, okay, sure. I mean, agreed, agreed. But still, pour the water over your tea ball filled with your fancy organic loose leaf tea.

[A]

Yeah, basically, yes. So there was no public health crisis, no cholera outbreak? No nothing. Just better tea. What was the filter actually removing? Do we know?

[B]

Yeah. So the initial design was this funnel shaped jug with a filter that used ion exchange resin and activated carbon to remove substances that affect taste and smell. It reduces lime scale. It just makes water softer. It was mostly about softening hard tap water.

[A]

Ah, okay. So hold on. Can we take a moment and define soft and hard water? Because those terms get thrown around all the time and I want everyone to know what they mean.

[B]

Oh, yeah, of course. So hard water just means water with high concentrations of dissolved minerals, mostly calcium and magnesium. And as the water travels through the ground, it picks these up from rock and soil like limestone. Soft water has very low traces of minerals. So think rainwater or water treated by a softener.

[A]

So basically, hard water has rocks in it.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, in a way, yeah. Just microscopic ones. But the effects are big. Hard water leaves behind mineral deposits called limescale on our dishes, faucets, pipes. It's that white, crusty stuff. And it also reacts with soap, so it's harder to get a good lather. That's why your dishes spot, your clothes come out stiff, and your pipes and appliances slowly collect buildup, which reduces their efficiency and lifespan.

[A]

Okay, so hard water kills my dishwasher and makes my towels crunchy?

[B]

Yeah, pretty much. And soft water, on the other hand, it lathers easily with soap, so you end up using less detergent. And it doesn't leave that limescale or soap scum so things look cleaner. And it can make your skin feel smoother and your hair healthier. But it does take a bit more rinsing is, I think, the biggest difference.

[A]

Okay. If my shampoo commercial reenactments aren't realistic, that's a water hardness problem. Got it. Okay, so how do I know what kind of water I have in my house?

[B]

I mean, the easiest is the suds test. So try lathering up. If you get tons of bubbles, that's soft water. If it takes effort and it feels slippery before it foams, that's hard water.

[A]

All right. Simple enough. So do you need different filters for hard versus soft water?

[B]

No. Filters and softeners do different jobs. So a softener removes minerals to prevent the buildup on your pipes and appliances, but it doesn't clean out pollutants. A filter removes contaminants like chlorine, lead, bacteria and sediments. Stuff that affects your health and the taste of your water. If you have hard water with contaminants, you might need both.

[A]

Of course, nothing can ever just be one gadget. How do I figure out which one I need?

[B]

Step one, test your water. You can buy simple test kits or get a report from your local utility company that'll tell you if you got hard water, lead, bacteria, whatever's in there that they will tell you. If your main concern is scale buildup and appliance protection, a softener is usually enough. But if you've got health related contaminants, you'll want a filter. And there are combined systems which address both.

[A]

So we're softening the hard water then filtering the softened water, right? This is like therapy for my sink?

[B]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[A]

Everybody I know has something right? A Brita pitcher, zero water filters or whatever or the whole home systems that look like NASA frickin installed them. Is our water really that bad though?

[B]

I mean actually no. Most Americans, I'll stress most have access to water that meets or even exceeds federal safety standards. The problem is those standards were written decades ago, so we're still regulating for the 1970s.

[A]

Great. So my tap water might be safe as long as I'm living in taxi driver era New York to grab a glass of water in the first place. Is that why we all distrust tap water now? Because the regulations are outdated? Or is water actually more gross now?

[B]

It's a little of both. There have been some big scary water contamination stories and that sticks in people's minds. Plus we taste the difference, we have health concerns and there's now a convenience to having a personal system. So it just makes sense. It's like a peace of mind.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot of faith in a system that you can't see most parts of. We just trust our water is safe. But when you make it tangent tangible and feel more in control, I don't know, it seems safer, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, right. And to be fair, some of those old pipes and systems don't account for new threats. Things like lead PFAs, which are the forever chemicals and agricultural runoff. So some of these contaminants weren't even on the radar when most regulations were set. Some contaminants are still emerging, so regulatory standards, they're often lagging. What the public is fearing.

[A]

That's not comforting. That our water is safe by yesterday's definition. Your pipes are living in the past. Man. That's like still using my Nokia 3310. Technically, it works. And I can drop it off the third floor, but it's not going to connect to 5G. I guess I can at least play Snake.

[B]

Oh, I would love to play Snake.

[A]

Remember that?

[B]

Yeah, that was awesome.

[A]

Walk me through how these actually work though, because I look at my Brita, or reverse osmosis filter system, and it's basically magic.

[B]

Yeah. Most home filtration systems use activated carbon, which works through adsorption. Adsorption, okay. It's pretty much the opposite of absorption, so contaminants get trapped on the surface. So think of it like a magnet for bad smells and chemicals. The activated carbon is great for removing chlorine. It improves the taste and odor and it reduces some chemicals and leads.

[A]

Oh, wow. Okay, so the filter is hanging onto the bad stuff and it's in there.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. And then there's reverse osmosis, as you mentioned, which uses pressure to force water through a semi permeable membrane. It's like a bouncer that keeps almost everyone out. Heavy metals, nitrates, PFAs. But it also keeps out beneficial minerals like calcium, magnesium, and fluoride.

[A]

So you could be filtering out good stuff, which we agree. Fluoride, part of the good stuff. We discussed this at length in episode 1073.

[B]

Yeah, fluoride's not the enemy. So you want to add that back into your diet somehow, if you choose a system that filters it out. But another thing about reverse osmosis is that it wastes a lot of water. So for every gallon purified, you're dumping several more gallons down the drain.

[A]

So I'm solving one problem by creating another problem. I have reverse osmosis. And I don't remember why we got it. I think they just said, hey, you're building a new house. You want reverse osmosis to the good kind. And we're like, yeah, sure. I didn't get it for the whole house, though. I have like a separate water faucet for drinking water that is that they offered a full home system, but it just seemed dumb to me to wash my dishes with reverse osmosis water to shower with reverse osmosis water. Maybe there's a reason. I don't know. I guess we can talk more about that later. But what other types of Filtration systems are even out there. It seems like there's a zillion different kinds.

[B]

Yeah, there's a few main ones. So a distillation system works by boiling water and collecting the steam. It's super effective, but also super energy intensive. You're basically running a tea kettle 24 7.

[A]

Yeah, it seems like that would turn my kitchen into a sauna and just give me a giant energy bill.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, more or less. Then there's ion exchange filtration systems, which is what most water softeners use. It swaps out calcium and magnesium, the minerals that make water hard, and it swaps them out for sodium, which softens water.

[A]

But that doesn't do anything to purify the water for our health, right?

[B]

Correct. For disinfection, there are UV filters which use ultraviolet light to kill bacteria and viruses without involving any chemicals. And finally there are absorption filters and mechanical filters. So think like carbon filters or sediment filters that actually trap particles, chlorine, and other contaminants. So some systems use a combo of all these technologies.

[A]

So it's like a bunch of specialists. One kills germs, one softens, one traps gunk, others go full science fair. But if you pick the wrong one, are you just wasting money if you pick the wrong one?

[B]

I mean, potentially, yeah, that can be the case. So the key is knowing what problem you're trying to solve. If it's just chlorine taste, a cheap britafitcher works just fine. But if you have lead pipes, cool for you on having an old house, but you need something certified for heavy metal removal. So if you're on well water, you might worry about bacteria. So you'd probably want a UV system or something even stronger.

[A]

Yeah, I want the fracking chemicals out of my well water if I'm drinking it.

[B]

Oh, God, yeah, please. I know. Well water is the worst.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, where well water is used has the highest concentrations of people with cancer.

[A]

Are we sure about that? That's crazy and scary.

[B]

There's a lot of reports on it. There's nothing definitive that this is the main cause because a lot of things cause cancer. But there is some seems to be some kind of correlation that is really scary. Terrifying. Yeah.

[A]

But filters are amazing in what they can remove, eh? Like they can Take out crazy stuff.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, they are. They can remove a lot. Yeah. So water filters can reduce or eliminate a lot of harmful substances. A filter provides a first line defense against toxins. And there are over 120 toxins that have been identified as being able to exist in the water supply.

[A]

120 toxins. That seems excessive.

[B]

I know. And some of these are common, including Cryptosporidium.

[A]

Okay, not a crypto, bro. You're gonna have to explain what that is.

[B]

Yeah, it's the name for what's really common. It's an extremely nasty parasite that causes severe gastrointestinal discomfort and sickness.

[A]

Sounds like my cousin Chris.

[B]

Yeah, Just kidding, Chris. Water utilities invest heavily in systems and technologies to fight these parasites and remove them from the public water supply. But your own water filter system gives you that extra defense at the point where you need it most, the tap.

[A]

If it's saving me from waterborne illnesses, I'm all in.

[B]

I'm all in. Yeah, definitely filter out the bacteria, the viruses, the parasites, everything you can.

[A]

Yeah. What can't home filters remove? Is there anything?

[B]

Yeah. So simpler filters, like Brita, they can't remove nitrates or hormones, bacteria, viruses. And performance varies wildly by brand. It's a bummer, but studies show that several of the cheap Amazon filters remove exactly zero contaminants.

[A]

Oh, my God. So we're buying expensive plastic cosplay.

[B]

We are. Amazon branding is so frustrating, especially when it comes to wellness and health products. They pretty much say, hey, this filter identifies as functional, but it absolutely doesn't. So you need to read the fine print, read the real reviews when buying anything on Amazon.

[A]

We had our fridge serviced a zillion years ago. I can't remember. But he was like, I'm going to change your filter because it's a courtesy we do when we come and fix anything if your filter's old. And we're like, cool. And we were like, how much are these? He's, they're $90. We're like, God, that's a lot for an ice filter. And he's like, yeah, you can get cheaper ones on Amazon, but let me tell you right now, don't get cheaper ones on Amazon. And I said, why not? And he's like, I service a lot of fridges, as you might imagine. And a lot of times I will open up the ice filter for the water and the ice maker. And he's like, I find empty plastic cartridges. They never put a filter element in there at all. And not only is there nothing in there that Filters, anything. But it's just full of disgusting mold because it doesn't have the antibacterial stuff. And it's just like a piece of plastic that you get conned into buying because it's cheaper.

[B]

Yeah, it gets wet, it gets dry. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And it gets wet and it gets dry. Or they'll just stuff it with basically cotton and it's just rotting in there with mold and gross stuff growing on it. Because you can't just make a water filter out of anything. It has to be something where bacteria doesn't grow in it generally, and mold. So people are getting sick from these things because they wanted to save money by buying a fridge filter on Amazon. It's a good advice for all products to read real reviews of the product. And if you're really unsure, if you're just like, I'm on the fence, but I stand to save a lot of money, buy a three pack, open one of them up, and look inside and see if it actually has a filter in there. And if it does, then roll the dice. But if it's empty plastic, return the whole thing and write a one star review. Save everybody else some trouble.

[B]

I unfortunately think that's probably really common and maintenance really matters. And even if you do have a legitimate filter but you don't replace it, that bacteria and mold will still grow inside them. So a neglected filter can make your water dirtier than your tap. So if nothing else comes from this conversation, please go change your water filters. Whatever you use, it doesn't matter. Just go change it, because what we can't see is terrifying.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. Ridiculously disgusting, actually. So these water pitchers are like small bacterial ecosystems in people's fridges.

[B]

You'd be surprised how often that's true. So modern filtration systems have sensors that tell you when to change the filters, but those old school pictures rely on you just remembering. So if the water starts tasting bad, or a big tell is if it's taking longer to filter through, that filter is overdue for a replacement. And you should never wash those pitchers in hot water because that can degrade the plastic and then it releases microplastics. So you actually want to replace the whole pitcher every couple years too?

[A]

Oh, yeah, microplastics. The uninvited guest at every meal. So we can't really avoid these, but you can get rid of some of them so those aren't getting filtered out.

[B]

When we say micro here, we really mean micro. We're talking pieces of plastic smaller than 5 millimeters. Those can break down to less than 1 millimeter. These plastics get so tiny, we're breathing microplastic particles that are in the air. So they can be tiny enough to slip through the best filtration systems, so

[A]

even the fancy filters can't catch them.

[B]

Reverse osmosis like you have, those systems do the absolute best job at reducing microplastics. But even they aren't perfect. They can be up there like maybe 99%, but there's no getting around it. We are ingesting microplastics and researchers are still figuring out what that means for our long term health. And here's some other frustrating news. If your water bottle, your pitcher, whatever you use as a water container, if it's made of plastic or has a plastic cap, you're definitely drinking some plastic.

[A]

Great. Cool. Love that for us. I've been told that if you're avoiding microplastics is not even really realistic. But avoiding plastic containers can really reduce the amount of plastic we consume. So maybe we should use a glass for our water whenever we can. I mean, basically don't drink anything out of plastic bottles. Right. So if I skip all that and I do drink from the tap, how safe is the US Water supply really?

[B]

The US has one of the safest drinking water supplies in the world. So over 90% of Americans receive water from systems regulated under the Safe Drinking Water act that was passed in 1974. Public water systems must meet EPA standards for many contaminants like bacteria and metals like lead and arsenic. So there's monitoring, there's testing and enforcement. I know we hear the horror stories, but it is pretty close to 100% of people in this country who have access to, to safely manage drinking water. And if you're listening and you don't, I'm so sorry, but for most of us, it's not a problem.

[A]

Okay, so we're not living in a dystopia?

[B]

No, probably not yet. Yeah, yet. But there's huge variability. So water quality, it differs by state, by county, whether you have public or private systems and how old your pipes are and the source water, meaning if you have groundwater versus surface water and what pollution du jour is nearby. So over 15 million American homes get water from private wells that aren't under the same regulations.

[A]

So 15 million homes are just like on their own, basically, or what?

[B]

Yeah, and like I said before, I mean, some studies are showing higher cancer rates exist among the people with well water. Other communities test positive for various emerging contaminants. Those forever chemicals, the pfas were Found in drinking water sources that possibly affected tens of millions of people. So about 25 million Americans drink from a water system that has some violation records. An aging infrastructure means old pipes can leach lead, rust, and sediments. But even with these violations, the water still isn't bad enough to cause serious illness.

[A]

Okay, so overall, safe, but with significant asterisks depending on geography and whether anyone's paying attention.

[B]

Yeah, right. Also, safe doesn't always mean perfect taste or no odor or no risk of emerging contaminants. It really depends where you are.

[A]

I see. So it's always surprising to me when I'm in New York City. People drink the tap water. It's just. It's famous for being good quality. Everyone drinks it. Detroit is also the same because we have the great Lakes. And everyone's like, hey, the water's actually really good here. It's kind of like, really, the water's

[B]

fine, but it is. I mean, it's about the source and what's added to their water. So New York City gets water from protected watersheds up in the Catskills, which is naturally soft, so minimal treatment is needed. Florida's water comes from limestone aquifers, making it hard and mineral heavy. So most people there don't drink the tap water. The Midwest often has agricultural runoff concerns. I have a friend in Austin, Texas, with a pond who says if she uses water from the hose in her pond, it will kill the whole ecosystem. All her fish will die. So absolutely not using it. And if you ever have bought a pet goldfish, you can't just plop them in tap water. The chlorine will kill them. But humans were built differently. You know, we can handle. I think we can handle more than people realize. Yeah.

[A]

Think about it. You drink alcohol, and you drink a shitload of it, and then you, like, blow some cocaine up your nose, and you just go to bed. You're not dead the next day. Well, now for fentanyl is a different story. But you put all kinds of crap in your body. We're tough for years on end, Jessica. You know best. You know firsthand. So depending on your zip code, you're either drinking evian or tap water. Why do we treat clean water like it's optional in some areas?

[B]

Because infrastructure doesn't vote. And it is worse some places. We underfund a lot of these systems, especially in poorer communities. Until disaster strikes. Right. We'll send billionaires to space. But some American towns can't afford to replace century old pipes.

[A]

So where is the cleanest water in the World. Fiji. No, I'm kidding. Poland Spring. I heard that's pretty clean.

[B]

The cleanest municipal water in the world. It's either Norway or Iceland. They're pretty equal. And it's not because they have these magic glaciers. It's because they have functioning governments who ensure their water infrastructure works well. Like very well. So clean water isn't luck, it's policy. Inequality is a factor in water supplies all over the world. Big cities tend to have more consistent monitoring, while small towns or tribal communities can really struggle. So Flint, Michigan wasn't an isolated story. Right. It highlighted a symptom of neglect. Jackson, Mississippi was another example of out of control water. The cleanest water rankings often gloss over these local spots with problems.

[A]

Flint, Michigan became the symbol when it switched its water source in 2014 to the Flint river to save money and then unleashed, I believe, lead contaminants to over 100,000 residents. The water was horrible. I mean, it was really like brown and disgusting. But it's happening in places that don't make headlines. I mean, there were people who are like, my water lights on fire. I mean, just the stuff like that, it's just. And then I think, didn't they give bottled water to people in Flint for like years afterwards? They might even still be doing it. I don't know.

[B]

They might still be doing it. Yeah. I think there's so many issues. I think the water that we can set on fire when it comes out of the tap. I think a lot of that is due to being close to fracking. But Flyknit was different. They just started sourcing their water from a contaminated river. And yeah, it was awful. I remember those videos. And there's also equity issues. People in lower income neighborhoods that aren't putting money into the water filtration systems, they need filters the most. But scams often target them the hardest. And that's just one of the scams they have to deal with.

[D]

Jeez.

[A]

Yeah, I've heard some weird stories from people about scammy sales pitches for solar panels, water filters, et cetera.

[B]

Oh, yeah, Alarm systems, all that stuff. Yeah, they're classic scams. So if a home filtration rep comes to your house, look out, be really skeptical. This isn't everyone, of course, but some dishonest salespeople will use reagents, which are substances that can cause chemical reactions. Or they'll use outdated tests that make water look contaminated. So they'll show you brown, murky water and say, hey, this is what you're drinking. But it's all theater.

[A]

It's all. Oh, I see, so they're gaslighting our sinks.

[B]

Yeah, basically. I mean, they prey on fear, especially parents with kids. And then they sell $5,000 systems that do less than a $30 pitcher filter.

[A]

Right. Okay, that's diabolical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are the other red flags people should watch out for?

[B]

There is a trend of impersonators, which, I mean, sometimes I just can't believe they're still door to door salesmen. But there are. And these scammers will pretend to be from your local water utility company to gain trust or your home access. And they'll have false or alarming claims using scare tactics like, you need to decide to do this today or you're putting your whole family in danger and they give you inaccurate water quality data or misleading third party data and they use that to sell their treatment units. So there's high pressure sales for expensive complex systems that aren't needed and proprietary replacement filters that quote, unquote, expire automatically. And then they force you to buy replacements forever.

[A]

This is starting to sound like printer ink cartridges. You know how that's all that whole

[B]

racket constantly have to buy them? I mean, it's planned obsolescence, but for hydration. Then there's the pseudoscience angle that throws around terms like structured water or alkaline filters or hexagonal clusters and hexagonal clusters and energy infused water. I mean, the list goes on.

[A]

Yeah, I know people that have sworn by, oh, you got to have your water alkylated or whatever and it's okay. I thought my body handled that. Anyway, the energy infused water filters, that sounds interesting. I'm in. I need that.

[B]

I know they're selling things called that exactly, but it's just a name. And those alkaline water products, that craze right now is huge. You see it on bottled water labels everywhere. Now the claim is that it balances your PH and detoxifies your body.

[A]

Yeah, anything that detoxify. Let me ask you, that's bullshit, right? This is all bullshit.

[B]

I mean, it's complete bullshit. Your body regulates its own PH incredibly tightly. Like we have this dialed in and it does it through your lungs and your kidneys. So drinking alkaline water does not Change your blood pH, and if it did, you would drop dead. So it's marketing pseudoscience to people who want to feel pure in a contaminated world without looking into what the labels actually mean.

[A]

I can't believe they're allowed to market that way. They're just selling the emotional Comfort of purity, not actual purity. It's so. What a scam. It's so irritating.

[B]

I know. But there's a psychological part to this. Anything we eat and drink has some kind of psychology to it. And filtering has just become a ritual of control.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, goodness. This is hand sanitizer for the soul.

[B]

Yeah. And companies, they're allowed to use words like pure, natural, and my personal favorite is glacial to sell the emotion. And it's not based on any data. It just taps into this deep psychological need for control in this world that feels increasingly toxic.

[A]

Today's episode is a wet blanket on the water filter industry. Let's see what else marketing can ruin. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Quilt Mind. You know what most people get wrong about LinkedIn? They think it's about posting for attention, and it's really not. It's about building an opportunity engine. Because here's what actually happens. When you consistently show up, people remember you. Not in an annoying way. It's more like an oh, yeah, that person knows their stuff way. And when something comes up, a speaking gig, a partnership, a new role, you're already on their radar. That's the part people underestimate. It's not about going viral. It's about staying visible. The problem is, most busy professionals, they don't have time to sit down and write thoughtful posts every week. You got the ideas, the experience, the stories. You just don't have the bandwidth. That's where Quilt Mind comes in. They take what's already in your head and turn it into sharp, engaging LinkedIn posts that actually sound like you. It's like having a ghostwriter who understands your voice and you can stay consistent without it eating up your time. If you're curious what I'm sharing, add me on LinkedIn. If you're interested in Quiltmind for yourself, shoot me an email or. Or reach out to [e-mail] Quick break to tell you about another podcast, the Mental Illness Happy hour. Since 2011. Paul. So he's one of the OGs. Paul Gilmartin has been having the kinds of conversations most people never say out loud. Fears, addictions, trauma, shame. The messy, deeply human stuff. Some episodes are funny, some are quite heartbreaking, but they're always honest. I've been on that show years ago, and the guests are incredible in the best way. You'll hear from comedians like Tiffany Haddish, Marc Maron, Neil Brennan, along with everyday people kind of like me, who show up and share the real story of what they've been through. I was on the show years ago. Good times. Paul and I go way back. The New York Times calls it a perversely safe place to talk about fears and traumatic childhoods. Esquire called it a vital, compassionate gem. Psychology Today said it normalizes what so many others feel but are too shamed to express. So if you've ever felt alone in what you're carrying, or you just want stories that go a layer deeper, listen to the Mental Illness Happy Hour wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening to and supporting the show. All the deals, discounts and ways to support the podcast are searchable and clickable on the [e-mail] deals now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. Okay, so purified water is basically liquid anxiety management. How can people actually protect themselves from getting fleeced by hydro hucksters?

[B]

Test your water independently. Don't rely on someone who's also selling you the cure. Contact your local water utility and request your annual consumer confidence report. It's free and it's required by law. They'll be happy to give it to you actually, and it shows exactly what's in your local water supply. If you're still concerned, grab an independent lab test. Then match your filter to the contaminants you actually have. You make sure it's NSF or WQA certified. You know, this is one of those things where doing your own research actually makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, got it. But what do those certifications mean?

[B]

So they mean the product, whichever filtration system that you go with has been independently tested and verified to remove what it claims. So it's not just manufacturer promises. And don't let strangers into your home for tests. Research companies and products before buying. And be suspicious of any unsolicited contacts. But you can understand your water. Some filters can actually remove beneficial minerals, so you just really need to know what you want your filter to do.

[A]

Okay, so actual science, not just vibes. I guess that's always a good rule of thumb.

[B]

If your water has actual vibes, I would probably call a priest, not a plumber.

[A]

That's a good call. So you mentioned some labeling on bottled water, but is the water inside better or is it like a billion dollar industry built on not trusting your faucet?

[B]

The fact is, those bottles labeled purified are just full of tap water that's packaged, branded and resold.

[A]

That is ridiculous. So I'm buying what I already own, but it's colder and smugger and probably has way more plastic in it. What Is purified on. What does that even mean? On the label? Is that a real term or is that just like it?

[B]

It is. The one thing bottled water has to be is processed, and that's what purified means, is that it's processed. There's so many brands of bottled water, and it's possible that it's been processed by the company. It could be reverse osmosis or distillation or just basic filtration. But the water that comes out of our tap is processed. So half of what you're buying in bottled water is municipal water, and it meets regulations because your tax dollars are paying to process that water. So, Dasani, that's just Coca Cola's tap water. Aquafina is Pepsi's tap water.

[A]

So we're paying a 10,000% markup for tap water in a plastic bottle that's going to leach microplastics into the water anyway?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's no gray area there, but we produce around 600 billion with a B. 600 billion plastic bottles a year, and they leach microplastics and they take centuries to decompose. So plastics from the caps alone are really harmful. You're literally drinking some of the container.

[A]

Oh, that's extra gross when you put it that way. Plus, bottled water companies pump from public aquifers. Isn't Poland Spring just like a. A well drilled somewhere off Highway 5

[B]

probably like, yeah, absolutely. They just have a cool name and logo. And Nestle is notoriously the worst. They've been accused of draining local water sources, sometimes in areas experiencing drought, and then they resell it for profit. So they pump from the public water systems, they charge people for their own water, and then they get fined on the reg. But the fines barely make a dent in their profits, so they just pay it off and repeat. It's actually makes business sense for them to do that. Where do people think Poland Spring is coming from? It's not some pure magical spring in Poland, I can assure you. And those ads that sell us glacial runoff are probably just tap water. A lot of water is technically glacial.

[A]

Ah, okay. I kind of didn't really know that. So we give companies our water and they sell it back to us with a mountain on the label. Okay, right. Is bottled water even regulated the same way as tap water or.

[B]

No, it's not. I was just thinking we should make some harbinger water.

[A]

Yeah, why not? God knows what's in there. I'll let you guys guess.

[B]

Hey, you have reverse osmosis. We'll just fill it up.

[A]

Oh, I thought, yeah, we'll use reverse osmosis. That's a good idea, Jess. That's what I had in mind for sure. Sure.

[B]

But no, there's not the same regulation with bottled water and tap water. So the EPA regulates tap water under the Safe Drinking Water Act. The FDA regulates bottled water, but with completely different standards. So tap water often has stricter testing requirements.

[A]

So tap water might actually be safer than bottled water?

[B]

Oh yeah, pretty often. And the only bottled water I have personally, it's in my earthquake preparedness kit. Because in an emergency during the apocalypse, I'm not going to be choosy then.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good policy. Those purifier tablets are in full stock on my end too. What about economics? Is filtering cheaper than bottled water? It seems like it would kind of have to be over time.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, let's break it down. A basic Brita pitcher is about $35. The replacement filters are around 10 bucks and you want to replace those every two months or so. So we're talking $50 to $60 a year plus your water bill.

[A]

Okay, that is nothing.

[B]

Basically an under sink System runs about 2 to $400 installed. The water filter replacements are around 50 to $100 annually. If you get a whole house system, that's going to be 1 to $3,000 upfront, plus a few hundred a year in maintenance. But meanwhile, if you're buying bottled water, say you only drink two bottles a day at A$50 each, that's over $1,000 a year.

[A]

So even the expensive filter pays for itself.

[B]

Absolutely, in the long run for sure. Plus you reduce plastic waste. But if you're not replacing your filters on time or you're just buying five different models that end up in a landfill, then you're not really being any greener.

[A]

And you're not saving money if you have 12 different filters that you've trashed. So filters can be greener, but only if you're not an idiot. Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Adds up. So another thing I wonder is why are we so obsessed with filtering the kitchen water, but do people filter their shower water? Like I said, I got offered a full home reverse osmosis system and I was just kind of like, eh, should we be filtering toothbrush water? Everything that touches us? How do we make this decision?

[B]

Those products are definitely creeping on the scene, but I'm very skeptical of them. Most water regulations focus on drinking water things we're actually going to ingest. The risk from things like showering or brushing your teeth is considered much lower

[A]

I'm not chugging shower water. Generally, yeah.

[B]

But when water heats up in the shower and turns to steam, some volatile chemicals like chlorine, chloramine and disinfection byproducts can evaporate. That means you can inhale small amounts or absorb them through the skin.

[A]

So, okay, so I could be inhaling contaminants. Like my pores are just little open doors and I'm steeping myself like a human teabag.

[B]

Yeah, potentially.

[A]

There's a joke in here about teabagging something, but I'm just not creative enough to handle it. Why don't you take over?

[B]

So just be careful with your sensitive bits. But when the water turns into vapor and you're inhaling it, you know it can irritate your lungs or your skin. It contribute over time to respiratory issues. So chlorinated water can also dry out our skin, irritate our scalp, can even damage our hair and the more sensitive parts of our skin. Small children, people with eczema, asthma or compromised immunity may benefit from shower filters. But I will say be really careful of what you're buying.

[A]

Yeah, I saw an ad for a shower filter that says it removes negative energy from your water. What do you think that means?

[B]

It means there's a market for people who will believe anything. Was it called the sucker shower filter?

[A]

Is there strong evidence we should be filtering our bathroom water though? Like, that's kind of what I was saying earlier. Like, do I need to care about that? I don't know.

[B]

There's not, it's not super strong or consistent evidence that I can find. There are links to feeling cleaner, but there's a lot of unknown factors still. So for most people, no, this is not a major concern. Shower filters can help. Like I said, if you have sensitive skin or if you live somewhere with heavy chlorine or you don't like the smell of your water, then yes, absolutely, that works, but you're not really doing any harm.

[A]

I see. So it seems like there's a perceived versus actual risk issue here.

[B]

Yeah, definitely.

[A]

Why aren't people just filtering everything?

[B]

There's also a regulatory end product gap. So there's just more consumer awareness about drinking filters than about shower or whole house filters. But you don't need to filter every faucet. There are cost and convenience trade offs here. So installing shower filter adds expense, it adds maintenance. That's other filters you have to replace. Most people don't want to install and replace cartridges or worry about their water pressure and flow. And there's diminishing returns. The extra filtering is perceived as giving small benefits compared to filtering the water we drink. Plus, many shower filters are really poorly tested. They have vague claims. So I would just do a ton of research before spending any money on one.

[A]

So the whole home quartz infused spa detox system for ten grand, not essential?

[B]

Yeah, only if you believe in exfoliating your aura, which I've seen on these products websites. And that is definitely not a thing.

[A]

Plus my aura has been through worse than some chlorinated water. I don't know. Might need a little extra help.

[B]

Yeah, same. I mean, it's possible to over filter. And that can cause other problems. By removing beneficial minerals, creating waste, encouraging over reliance on consumer tech rather than solving our systemic issues.

[A]

Yeah, there's something to be said for like, oh, I'm filtering all this stuff out and then, I don't know, maybe we should just not use Flint river water for our home supply.

[B]

Right, Exactly. Yeah. There's gotta be a balance.

[A]

What about restaurants? They serve tap water, don't they? Should I care? Do I have to worry about that?

[B]

If the local water is good, it's fine. If you're in an area with known contamination issues, maybe stick to something in a bottle. But your pasta may have been cooked with tap water, so it's just hard to tell. And restaurants are not required to use filtration.

[A]

But we don't think about it because restaurants appear. They're so clean, they're official. The ones I tend to eat at more than once anyway.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's the hope, right? But we trust the institutions. And the same water from your home faucet may feel suspect, but you go into a restaurant and that glass of water feels fine. Like we said at the beginning here, a lot of this is psychological.

[A]

Has anyone studied whether people who filter their water are actually healthier? Is that a thing that anyone's looked into?

[B]

I looked into it. So it's so hard to study because there's just so many variables leads to. What's their access to health care, Baseline water quality at home, work, socioeconomic status can matter. Where you eat matters. But we know that removing specific contaminants like lead and bacteria reduces exposure to those specific risks. So whether filtering clean tap water provides additional health benefits, the data just isn't there.

[A]

Got it. So for many people, this is probably theater. It's wellness theater. For your kitchen.

[B]

Yeah. It's for taste and your peace of mind. Sure.

[A]

For your tea, your bougie tea.

[B]

Yeah. For your German tea. But if you have lead pipes or well water. It's absolutely essential. The key is matching the solution to your specific problem.

[A]

But there are so many problems. I mean, does climate change affect water quality? Seems like it would.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Droughts concentrate contaminants. Floods will overwhelm treatment systems. Rising temperatures increase, algae blooms that produce toxins, and aging infrastructure will fail. In more extreme weather, there's water scarcity that makes the bottled water industry's extraction even more ethically questionable. We just had a huge hurricane that went through the Caribbean and hit Jamaica and Cuba. They're in store for huge water quality issues because it's just messed up the source of where the water comes from.

[A]

So we're going to have more water problems in the future?

[B]

Probably. I mean, unless we invest in infrastructure. Which brings us back to the central point. Water quality isn't just personal, it is political. So filters can help individuals, but they're a band aid on systemic neglect.

[A]

A good filter can clean your water, but it can't clean government corruption.

[B]

Yeah, and real safety comes from testing, transparency and infrastructure investment, not from individual consumer products. So if you have shitty pipes, it doesn't matter how clean your water source is.

[A]

What's the bottom line here? How does the average person navigate this issue of water quality?

[B]

Start with the information, not fear. Test your water to understand what's actually in it. And for simple concerns like taste and odor, those low cost filter pitchers may be sufficient. If your water is only hard, a water softener may be all you need. If you're concerned about specific contaminants, then just make sure the filter you choose is certified to remove them. Just match the technology to your actual problem.

[A]

Turns out we don't have to fear our water. We just need to buy the right filter. The real solution is fixing our water systems, not privatizing purity. I guess at the end of the day, the goal isn't just clean water, it's clean information. This has been oddly refreshing. So here's to clean water, clear thinking and filters that actually filter something besides our bank accounts. Thanks, Jess. And thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of skeptical Sunday to jordanjordanharbinger.com advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the [e-mail] deals I'm JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn and you can find Jessica on her substacks between the lines and where shadows linger. We'll link to those in the show Notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Also, we try to get these as right as we can. Not everything is gospel, even if it is fact checked. So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well being. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. You're about to hear a preview from Joe Loyev, a man who robbed 30 banks across California, but says the real crime scene was his childhood, where his Pentecostal preacher father beat him over a hundred times before he turned 15.

[D]

For 14 months, I robbed 30 banks, sometimes several in one day. I lost all sense that my life was going to be long at all. I just wanted to grab the loot and get the hell out of Dodge as fast as possible and go spend, spend it and have fun. That was my ethos. And so I did, because all the crimes I did and all the violence I did, and starting with my dad when my mother died, we had received a lot of love from her and everything like that. It's just too much for him. And when he gets angry now, he gets brutal. Like, he may have socked me, he may have choked me, he may have done all those things, beat me with a bat. He wants us dead. He's using the dead language. He could kill us or I could kill myself. Myself. But this is like, it's just a tough time for me to try and process the grief myself. And beyond being brutalized, I don't believe I have a future. So there's nothing inside of me like, oh, I got to protect my future. I better get a job. I start better start saving money for the future. None of that. Because a trauma is so intense, you're only looking at surviving the next day in front of you. You know, in fact, I'm not made for society. They have all these moralities, but they're too timid for me. I've seen past the curtain. Like I become in my heart like a little sociopath, looking at like, you guys are falling for the Okie Doke. And I'm not the guy who falls for the Okie Doke. I'm the guy who stabs the Okie Doke and says get the hell out of my way. I'm not buying it. Right? Once upon a time, Joe Loya couldn't handle his emotional shit. And so now I'm a criminal. I'm a bad guy.

[A]

In this episode, Joe unpacks the unsettling rapture he felt in the middle of a robbery and the exact moment seven years in solitary forced him to confront what he'd been running from his whole life and the turning point that finally redirected everything. It's not what you'd expect. Check out episodes 1264 and 1265 of the Jordan Harbinger Show. Quick break to tell you about a free podcast app worth checking out. Available on both iOS and Android. If you're still using one of the built in podcast apps, it might be time to upgrade to something better like Castbox. It's got a clean look, easy navigation, features that actually make listening easier. More than 100,000 of our listeners already subscribe to the show there on Castbox, so a lot of you might already know how good it is. One thing I really care about in a podcast app is strong search, and Castbox does that really well. It makes it easy to find exactly the shows and episodes you want. I routinely use it for show prep to find specific episodes. Whether you're searching for a specific guest, a topic you're into, or an episode you want to revisit. You can also personalize your listening experience by creating playlists without downloading the episodes. Organize your subscriptions, save episodes for later. Best of all, it's completely free and ad free, which makes the whole experience a lot more enjoyable. Download Castbox today. Subscribe to the Jordan Harbinger show, of course, and leave us a comment while you're there. Smokey the Bear Then you know why

[B]

Smokey tells you when he sees you passing through. Remember, please be careful.

[A]

It's the least that you can do.

[B]

After 80 years of learning his wildfire prevention tips, Smokey Bear lives within us all. Learn [e-mail] and remember, only you can

[A]

prevent wildfires brought to you by the

[B]

USDA Forest Service, your state Forester, and the AD Council.

[A]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front of row at a comedy show.

[B]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[A]

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual Together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[B]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways.

[A]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[B]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.