The Jordan Harbinger Show – Episode 1308: Benn Jordan | The Surveillance State Stalking You Without Consent

Date: April 7, 2026
Guest: Benn Jordan (Technologist, Musician, Security Researcher)

Overview

In this episode, Jordan Harbinger sits down with security researcher and musician Benn Jordan to discuss the rapidly expanding surveillance state in the United States. The focal point is the proliferation and vulnerabilities of automated license plate readers (ALPR), particularly Flock cameras. The conversation covers the ease with which these systems can be hacked, the alarming mining and sharing of personal data, implications for privacy and safety, and the inadequacy of both oversight and regulation. Through lively dialogue and alarming anecdotes, the duo exposes the dark side of modern surveillance and urges listeners to consider how such technology, under the guise of public safety, can be weaponized when barely secured.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction to Flock Cameras and Surveillance Infrastructure

• [03:32] What Are Flock Cameras?

  • Cameras used by police and cities, leased from third-party companies, that read license plates and log associated data such as car color, damages, bumper stickers, and more, into a massive database.
  • Each pass is recorded; authorities can track all appearances over periods (15-30+ days).
  • Serious privacy concerns—data gets mixed with consumer info, social media, and can be accessed by law enforcement and, often, by hackers.
  • Quote:

    “I've seen them…every single time that you pass the camera, it logs your license plate... then that technology just gets a little more advanced as the cameras get newer... They're putting into a massive database.” (Benn, 04:05)

• [05:21] Misuse in Texas and Elsewhere

  • Police tracked women suspected of seeking abortions in other states.
  • Collaboration between police and ICE for immigration enforcement, with data directly or indirectly shared.

Security Flaws and Hacking Vulnerabilities

• [08:53] Easily Hacked by Non-Experts

  • Benn and other researchers found outdated security; some law enforcement accounts sold on the dark web, exposing feeds to anyone with minimal technical ability.
  • Quote:

    “You were able to just look at the footage on these cameras, and you’re not in law enforcement... that should scare people.” (Jordan, 08:53)

  • Lack of multi-factor authentication, default login credentials.

• [31:10] Outdated Operating Systems

  • Many cameras run on deprecated Android versions or modified phones with open, hackable ports–never upgraded due to “blitzscaling.”
  • Quote:

    “Most...are running on an outdated one that can't be updated anymore that you can root relatively easily.” (Benn, 31:31)

• [40:20] Data Not Being Erased

  • Old footage, even from manufacturing tests years prior, found still present on devices, despite claims of deletion.

Massive Data Collection & Data Broker Ecosystem

• [12:02] Data Mixing and Profiling

  • ALPR data is bought/sold and cross-referenced with shopping habits, credit card data, social posts, etc., to build detailed personal profiles.
  • Quote:

    “...it just, it starts to mix all this with consumer data... this is Jordan Harbinger and this is where he was yesterday at 9:05am, period.” (Jordan, 12:02)

• [14:30] Ethical Dilemmas with OSINT

  • Benn describes tracing a couple’s personal lives from ALPR–discovering medical info, financial struggles, etc., all from surveillance data cross-referenced online.
  • Quote:

    “...I was able to find out a whole lot. A disturbing amount. Most of you know that I didn’t think it would be ethical to even share in a video...” (Benn, 14:30)

• [16:03] Data Company Business Models

  • Although Flock (and similar) claim not to sell data, they broker information aggressively for profit, sometimes even across agencies and states.

Real-World Efficacy & Failures

• [19:44] Fails at Catching Criminals

  • Even in high-profile abductions with neighborhoods blanketed by cameras, footage rarely assists investigations (e.g., the Guthrie case in Arizona).
  • Quote:

    “Taxpayers paid for this massive surveillance state... Oh, it doesn’t work.” (Benn, 23:46)

• [17:31] Community Policing More Effective

  • Decades of research show community policing outperforms tech surveillance in reducing crime; however, politicians and police departments often ignore this in favor of expensive high-tech solutions.

Dangers & Real-Life Risks

• [50:07] Police Cars Being Tracked

  • The same system can expose location of police vehicles—potentially harming officers.
  • Quote:

    “Do you feel safer knowing that a criminal can find out where you are?... Does that make you feel safer?” (Jordan, 48:57)

• [29:12] Creditworthiness & Life Opportunities

  • Insurers, banks, etc., quietly use these profiles (including obscure behaviors or old minor crimes) to set prices or deny mortgages, jobs, benefits.
  • Quote:

    “Now this bank buys access...says, you know what? Jordan's high risk for a mortgage. We're not going to tell you why... AI's not going to go well, we noticed his phone battery is typically below 50%...” (Jordan, 27:56)

• [35:43] Harassment and Intimidation of Researchers

  • Researchers face stalking by private investigators, possible firings, and PR campaigns painting them as “lawless activists,” rather than security whistleblowers.

Broader Social and Psychological Effects

• [57:06, 60:04] The Hawthorne Effect
  • Surveillance changes behavior subtly and pervasively, even outside criminal contexts—people feel judged and restrict natural activities.
  • Quote:

    “...your brain doesn’t really see the difference between somebody who's just very judgmental or security camera. It's like somebody's watching you. You're vulnerable. ” (Benn, 57:18)

  • Feared by security researchers—not just because it inhibits freedom but also stifles creativity and healthy personal growth.

Resistance, Regulation, and Fighting Back

• [79:57] Adversarial Techniques

  • Benn designs adversarial audio tool for musicians–music sounds normal to humans, but confuses AI so it can’t be used to train generative models.
  • Quote:

    “... you can actually fight back organically with technology the same way that they're oppressing you.” (Benn, 81:31)

• [67:20] Legal Defense and EFF Support

  • Researchers are seeking legal cover, working with groups like the EFF, and warning cities about the true risks.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On surveillance as a “Netflix for stalkers”:

  “If you're looking at a live feed...and you’re a bad actor, it’s Netflix for stalkers.”
  — Jordan Harbinger, [09:18]

• On security failures:

  “They literally sell open source intelligence data. Like it’s on their price sheet... there are a lot of discrepancies between what they say in a PR standpoint and what they actually do.”
  — Benn, [16:03]

• On community trust vs. surveillance:

  “If your community trusts the people who are enforcing the law and are receptive... that goes a longer way than just installing a bunch of surveillance cameras everywhere.”
  — Benn, [64:59]

• On behavior under surveillance:

  “We take for granted the things we do in private... but especially for young people... being watched changes how you live.”
  — Benn, [57:18]

• On why hackers haven’t “taken down” Flock:

  “China and Russia are in that backend...They don’t want to take down Flock. This is the best spy network they’ve had in possibly all of history.”
  — Jordan, [72:26]

• On companies’ response to whistleblowers:

  “At what point do you just grow up and remediate the security issues?”
  — Benn, [38:52]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:05] – What Flock cameras are and their data collection
• [05:21] – Law enforcement use and reproductive rights implications
• [08:53] – Security vulnerabilities and unauthorized access
• [12:02] – Data aggregation with consumer profiling
• [14:30] – Ethical dilemmas in OSINT and privacy
• [16:03] – Data as a business model
• [19:44] – Real-world failures in crime solving
• [29:12] – Consequences of data-based discrimination
• [31:10] – Deep technical vulnerabilities in camera hardware
• [35:43] – Harassment of researchers & companies’ responses
• [50:07] – Risks to police & citizens from poorly controlled data
• [57:06], [60:04] – The Hawthorne Effect and social impact
• [67:20] – Legal fights and intimidation
• [79:57], [81:31] – Technological responses: adversarial noise
• [72:26] – Why foreign actors exploit, not destroy, surveillance backdoors

The Takeaway

This episode raises urgent questions about security, privacy, and the surveillance state in modern America. ALPRs and similar systems are marketed as tools for safety but pose as much—or more—risk to citizen freedom, data security, and even law enforcement personnel, especially given persistent and glaring security holes. The conversation warns that arguments such as “I have nothing to hide” ignore the mutable, dangerous reality of who controls and defines “suspicious behavior.” It encourages listeners to recognize that the most disturbing threat isn’t secret technology, but the omnipresent, easily abused, and often poorly secured systems already on our streets.

Final Note:
For those curious about tech’s impact on privacy, Ben Jordan’s work demonstrates that sometimes critical resistance—and creative, subversive solutions—begin outside official channels.

Further Resources:

• All referenced videos and additional content from Benn Jordan are linked in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com.
• For legal advocacy on privacy: Electronic Frontier Foundation.

Share this episode with anyone interested in privacy, tech, or the risks of the surveillance state!