1318: Guillaume Dulude | Tribal Truths for Modern Minds

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jordan Harbinger Show – Episode 1318: Guillaume Dulude | Tribal Truths for Modern Minds (April 28, 2026)

---

Episode Overview

Jordan Harbinger sits down with Dr. Guillaume Dulude, an adventurer, psychologist, and host of the French TV series “Tribal,” to discuss the lessons he’s learned from living among isolated tribes around the world. Through first-hand stories—ranging from wanders into the Tanzanian wilderness with a bow and a chicken to close calls with wild animals and local customs—Guillaume explores human connection, hierarchy, vulnerability, and respect. The conversation offers a raw, often humorous, but deeply insightful look into what ancient tribal truths can teach us about modern relationships and communication.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Motivation

• Personal Beginnings: Guillaume's journey began after an unsuccessful attempt to become an Olympic swimmer. A conversation with a psychologist led him to travel the world relying solely on human connection to survive. (04:23-05:31)

  • “My whole life was about sport… When it stopped in swimming, I asked myself, what am I going to do? And I saw a psychologist… The next step was like, I'm going to try to go around the world with no money… and just rely on communication to survive.” — Guillaume (04:23)

• Initial Tribal Experiences: Early expeditions in Africa, especially time spent with Kenya’s Maasai tribe, became formative, igniting Guillaume's fascination with how traditional societies shape human thought and behavior. (06:13-07:30)

2. Survival through Connection

• Building Relationships Without Money: Guillaume explains the art of seeking shelter and acceptance through being valuable to others—not with cash, but with skills, trust, and genuine partnership. (05:41-06:06)

• Firsthand Hazards: Hilarious but harrowing stories animate the dangers—Russian surgeries without anesthesia, traveling with infected wounds, and a doctor who also mopped the floor. (08:28-13:27)

  • “The doctor was mopping the floor and eating an apple.” — Jordan (09:05)

3. Tribal Series: Real-World Encounters

• The Show “Tribal”: Guillaume describes his show's premise: finding and integrating into isolated tribal communities, often armed with only minimal supplies and no shared language. (14:13-15:04)

• Locating Remote Tribes: Preparation includes leveraging local knowledge and networks, tracking signs, and patiently searching—sometimes for days. (16:03-18:19)

  • “The show is on when you hear a scream back.” — Guillaume (17:01)

4. Rules of First Contact

• Hierarchy & First Impressions: Critical first steps include understanding the social structure, approaching key leaders, and managing anxiety—yours and theirs. (18:34-19:07)

  • “Every time you come across human beings, you need to understand the hierarchy system.” — Guillaume (19:07)

• Gift-Giving Nuances: Never show up empty-handed, but beware: constant gifting can undermine genuine relationships and turn you into “a walking Amazon Prime subscription.” Only the initial survival-relevant gift (like a chicken) is appropriate. (20:17-21:04, 46:23-47:54)

  • “If you put external rewards or external factors... the reinforcement will crush the relationship and you become distributor.” — Guillaume (47:14)

5. Psychology of Vulnerability & Respect

• Reducing Threat, Building Trust: Body language, synchronized movements, and non-verbal mirroring are central to showing benign intent and diffusing potential hostility. Verbal language is secondary. (23:03-25:24)

• Timing Emotional Signals: Don’t smile prematurely, as misaligned emotional cues can increase suspicion and erode trust. (37:40-39:41)

  • “Because there are all kinds of reasons why you would be smiling, but it doesn't mean that the reasons are good for me as well.” — Guillaume (38:19)

6. Learning from Rituals, Structure, and Social Roles

• Clan Organization and Social Status: Tribal roles are rigidly defined—with even casual members given prestigious titles, resembling “everyone in a startup being the chief experience officer.” (55:39-57:16)

• Merit over Self-Esteem: Social worth in these communities is measured in action, not self-description. (57:50-58:46)

  • “You actually need to do things… Don’t talk to me about how special you are. Show me how many cows you have.” — Guillaume (58:04)

• Initiation Rituals: Painful and often dangerous rites of passage, like circumcision and tooth removal with rocks, serve as gateways to adulthood and community belonging. (83:34-85:13, 102:03-104:13)

  • “When you're going to be cut up, you must not cry, flinch. You must not have any emotion, any facial expression. Otherwise you're weak and it's going to follow you the rest of your life.” — Guillaume (84:02)

7. Adventures and Mishaps

• Predators and Environment: Successful survival hinges on animal awareness, sleeping strategies, and listening for threats; fire is a principal deterrent. (30:34-33:28)

  • “The only way you're going to find out [your place in the food chain] is when you get the bad news that you're not at the top.” — Jordan (31:04)

• Natural Hazards – Bees, Crocodiles, and More: Encounters with honey bees (and severe allergic reactions), crocodile-infested rivers, and foraging challenges all highlight the adaptability required. (66:19-70:06, 73:23-76:28, 80:25-80:52)

  • “I got stung so hard, like it was like an electric shock for my whole body.” — Guillaume (67:29)
  • “Taking a shower is a big expedition… You need two rifles, you need bullets.” — Guillaume (75:56)

• Food and Water: Hunting baboons (and eating the hand), digging for water, and abstaining from “contaminating relationships” through inappropriate gifts or displays of wealth and technology. (70:26-71:54)

8. Deeper Social & Ethical Issues

• Cultural Taboos and Tragedies: The practice of killing babies due to local beliefs (e.g., minji mingi for certain types of tooth growth) demonstrates how deeply held but arbitrary traditions can define moral realities. (90:46-92:14)

• Kidnap Marriages & Cultural Relativity: In some Kazakh and other Asian clans, bride kidnapping (with or without consent) is normalized—but distinguishing between tradition and modern criminality is complex. (92:14-95:30)

9. Lasting Human Truths

• Universal Connection: Despite radical differences, the mechanisms of connection—vulnerability, trust, empathy—are shared across cultures. Guillaume emphasizes that genuine relationship-building, even without a common tongue, is possible and fulfilling. (60:38-61:11)

  • “This is the ultimate reward—to create a bond, to create relationship with people so different... It’s a privilege.” — Guillaume (60:38)

• On Judgment and Understanding: Entering a new culture demands humility and the suspension of judgment; true empathy requires seeing beyond one’s own values. (92:43-94:12)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the intensity of his adventures:

  • “Alligators, bullet ants, crocodiles that eat children, rituals that make frat hazing look like a spa day... Bunch of this episode is what happens when National Geographic meets ‘this seemed like a good idea at the time.’” — Jordan (02:23)

• On relationship-building:

  • “You must never give anything valuable. Never. If you give something, it must be with low value that is always lower in dopamine than the relationship itself.” — Guillaume (47:16)

• On matching social cues:

  • “Normally what I like to do is that I just listen to the other person and I just wait that this person is showing me the emotional direction where we're going.” — Guillaume (38:18)

• On the Polaroid camera in North Korea:

  • “It’s one of the rare objects that still fits in the realm of positive relationship… It’s powerful.”— Guillaume (64:18, 65:31)

• On rituals and pain:

  • “Rituals and transitions are a big thing at the center of traditional cultures. And I have a good story for you...” — Guillaume (85:19)

• On bringing Westerners to tribes:

  • “One mind can put a whole village at risk just with one person. So psychology, to me, it's… you have to be extremely precise because the brain is very powerful.” — Guillaume (90:33)

• On merits and value:

  • “You're unique, but you're not special. So when you're surviving in a difficult environment, don't talk to me about how special you are... Show me things. And after, you will be worth something.” — Guillaume (58:06)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Guillaume’s Origin Story & First Adventure: 04:23–07:30
• Encounter with Russian Medical System: 08:28–13:27
• Rules for First Contact & Hierarchy: 18:34–20:17
• Gift-Giving Dynamics: 46:23–47:54
• Managing Vulnerability and Trust: 25:24–39:41
• On Eating and Rituals: 70:26–71:54, 102:03–104:13
• Bringing Westerners: The Hidden Dangers: 85:27–90:33
• Baboon Hand Tasting: 70:26–70:57

---

Further Information

• Guillaume’s TV Show: “Tribal” is available to stream for free on TV5 (in French—but visuals are universal). [106:36]
• Current Project: Guillaume and his wife are developing a new series on the origins of love and intimate relationships worldwide. (105:11)

---

Takeaway

Through wild tales of survival, empathy, and cross-cultural exchange, Guillaume’s insights reveal the importance of humility, reading nonverbal cues, respecting hierarchy, and understanding vulnerability—truths as vital in the boardroom as in the bush.

“Maybe the lesson here isn’t go wander into the wilderness with a chicken and a dream. Maybe it’s be a little more curious, be a little more humble. And maybe don’t assume you understand how the world works just because you got wi-fi.” — Jordan (107:43)

---

For more, listen to the full episode or visit jordanharbinger.com for all show notes and links.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is sponsored in part by Dell. Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments that matter. For the moments you plan and the ones you don't. Built for the busy days that turn into all night study sessions. The moment you're working from a cafe and realize that every outlet is taken, the times you're deep in your flow and the absolute last thing you need is an auto update throwing off your momentum. That's why Dell builds tech that adapts to the way you actually work. Built with long lasting batteries so you're not scrambling for the closest outlet and and built in intelligence that makes updates around your schedule, not in the middle of it. They don't build tech for tech's sake, they build it for you. Find technology built for the way you [e-mail] DellPCS built for you. Insurance isn't One size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool you you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Price and Coverage match Limited by state law this episode is brought to you by Lufthansa. Lufthansa Allegres is an innovative elevated travel experience across all classes, focusing on each person with their own individual and situational needs. Look forward to your own feel good moment above the clouds. Visit lufthansa.com and search for Allegris to learn more. Lufthansa Allegris All It Takes is a yes. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. Spies, CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional Russian chess grandmaster, Hollywood filmmaker or cold case homicide investigator. Now, if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, and I appreciate it when you do that, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of some of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Just visit jordanharbinger.com start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started today on the show. If you ever wake up and think you know what would really spice up my life? Wandering into the African wilderness with a bow, a chicken, and zero ability to communicate, hoping a tribe doesn't kill me on sight. Yeah, me neither. But today's guest, that's a Tuesday. This guy is trekking into the middle of nowhere. No gps, no language, no backup plan, just vibes, a cameraman and the faint hope that the local tribe interprets guy with weapons and gifts as friendly visitor and not early dinner. All right, today we're talking how you can actually approach a tribe without getting skewered. Why giving gifts can backfire and turn you into a walking Amazon prime subscription. Hunting baboons with a bow like it's casual. And then eating one of the hands like a snack. Getting stung, poisoned, dehydrated, possibly infected. And calling it healing after a breakup. And just when you think it couldn't get more intense. Alligators, bullet ants, crocodiles that eat children. Rituals that make frat hazing look like a spa day. Bunch of this episode is what happens when National Geographic meets this seemed like a good idea at the time. Here we go with Guillaume Delude. How would you explain what you do? Because it's easy to say, like, oh, he films a reality TV show where he goes and finds isolated tribes. But that's only part of the picture.

[B]

You can introduce me as a doctor in psychology that I do psychology differently, very differently. I want reality. I want what works in reality. I want proof.

[A]

You call me up out of nowhere, more or less, and you say, hey, I have a show where I go and I walk into the middle of the jungle or the desert and I find a tribe that we don't know exactly where they're going to be or exactly where they are. And then I just try to live with them for. Is it a couple weeks?

[B]

Yes, depending. But yes, from a week to two weeks.

[A]

How did you get the idea to do that? Because it seems, first of all, a lot could go wrong. But I don't know. It's not my usual vacation. First on the list is not wandering into the Tanzanian desert to eat things that I find on the ground. Yeah.

[B]

It started when I was 20 years old. I was training for the Olympics for swimming.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

So that was my big dream, and I was not good enough. I wasn't fast enough, and I got hurt and I lost my funding. My whole life was about sport. When you're involved into sports, the only thing you see is sport. You see yourself having a career, and you don't have any. Plan B. When I was 18, 20 years old, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. I knew that I loved performance, I loved humans, I loved the brain. That's pretty much it. And so when it stopped in swimming, I asked myself, like, what am I going to do? And I saw a psychologist, actually, and that helped me figure out what would be my next step. And the next step was like, I'm going to try to go around the world with no money. So. So that's gonna be my first challenge. Try to go around the world with no money, and I'm gonna just rely on communication to survive. So that was the plan. So I'm gonna try to talk to people, get accepted by people, go live with them, and see if I can survive like this. So that's how it started.

[A]

Look for people who are not watching on YouTube. You're like a pretty big French Canadian dude. Are you just saying, hey, can I sleep in your backyard? How are you traveling with no money?

[B]

You don't need much money. If you know how to create good connection and if you know how to contribute to someone else's life, you need to be valuable. You say, hey, look, I need some help. Can I sleep at your place? I'm ready to do that for you. I'm ready to help you out for that. What do you need? And so you create partnerships and you create relationships and you create trust. And that's how I got by the first whole year where I did this trip.

[A]

Oh, you did that for a year? Wow. Where did you go? Did you go to the usual suspects, or were you traveling to more off the beaten path type of places?

[B]

Yes, absolutely. I went straight to Africa. I've always been attracted by nature, animals, expeditions, tribes. But at this time, I was 20 years old. It wasn't quite clear yet, but during this first trip, I went to an expedition. I did an expedition in Kenya, and I've spent some time with the Maasai tribe, and it really changed my life. I spent a few weeks with them, and I was sleeping in their little hut, and it was like a thousand degrees inside the hut, and you sleep with the goats, and it smells horrible, and there are insects coming out of the walls, which is made of mud. And Shit. The insects are coming out and going on you during the night. And I was sleeping between one guy and her wife and her kid and the goats. And I couldn't sleep for, like a week. And it was like, this is the dream for me. I'm living something important. I didn't know exactly what it was, but I knew I put my finger on something and I was hooked. I was like, I want to know, how do you live traditionally where we come from as human beings? And I think that's always been my, who are we? Who am I? Where do we come from? What's the future? If we know where we come from, can we make a better future? How do we think? How must we think? I was hooked. So the rest, it's history.

[A]

Have you seen that Instagram account, Masai Boyz? It's like these four or five guys from that tribe, and they go to New York or whatever, and they're, like, trying to eat pizza and figure out how to eat pizza. It's really funny because they're really from Kenya. It's not larping. They're not cosplaying. Most of their videos are from Kenya. And I guess I don't know how it happened, but somebody was like, go to New York and come try pizza and stuff. And they're just, like, really out of place because they're wearing traditional tribal, almost like a cloth robe kind of thing. And they're walking around Manhattan, and they're just, like, trying to communicate what that looks like to them. And you can just see it in their face. They're Times Square, and it's. We don't have this in our mud hut in Kenya. That's the inverse. They're doing the opposite of what you're doing. Yeah, it was kind of funny to see. This is an incredible adventure that you went on. So, okay, so you find yourself in this mud hut. You find yourself inspired to do more of it. Did you stay in Africa for a while? Was that the plan?

[B]

Yes. I spent maybe six months in Africa during this first trip. And after, I went all the way up back up to Russia and just before that to Ukraine, and I got a kind of an infection to my foot, and by the time I arrived to Moscow, I couldn't walk. Oh, dang. So I went to the hospital in Moscow, and it was like a nightmare. First I was in the waiting room. I don't know what to expect. And there's a guy, like, mopping the floor, eating an apple, and he was like, okay, it's your turn I'm like, okay. And the same guy sits down and is like, so, what's up? I'm like, is there a doctor? Yeah, it's me.

[A]

The doctor was mopping the floor and eating an apple. Oh, my.

[B]

Okay. Your doctor. Cool. Are you sure? Yeah. The guy looked, like 22 years old. And I was like, you sure? Don't you have a supervisor or anything? He says, no, no, that's me. I'm the chief. He's here. It's like, oh, okay. And you just looked at my foot and said, okay, so we're just gonna cut you open this afternoon. Like, look, I have a backpack. I'm walking. Just give me some antibiotics or something. And he says, no, no, I'm gonna cut your foot or you're gonna lose your foot.

[A]

I want a second opinion.

[B]

Yeah, but that's it. I was like, don't you have, like, oh, man. A surgeon? Like, he says, yeah, I'm the surgeon. Oh, you're the surgeon. Yeah. Like, okay. And he says, like, I have a trip. I need to go to the cottage to do some horseback riding in the afternoon. So I'm busy. So if I could cut you up right now. So I'm like, what the hell? So I go to the surgery, and there's, like, nothing. And I go on the table, and he says, look, the anesthesiologist cannot be there because he's busy, so we're gonna just do it without. And I'm like, are you serious? He says, yeah, this isn't.

[A]

What year is this?

[B]

2005.

[A]

Because this sounds like Siberia. 1955.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is crazy. Okay, sample size of one. But this is the hospital in Moscow in 2005. What is the hospital like in Novosibirsk in 2005?

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

Or is it just, like, they don't have one? Or a similar setup? Except for the guy is also drunk,

[B]

and he's a dentist and he's a vet, and he's. Yeah, so I'm unstable, you know, and they want to cut my foot. And there's, like, a nurse. She's eating gum like this.

[A]

Like, twisting it around.

[B]

Oh, like this. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna die, but not up to me anymore. And I go on the bed, and they start cutting me up. I'm trying to film myself because it's hurting so much. I'm trying to focus, to do a task. I'm trying to film myself. So I'm filming the surgery while it's happening, and I taped my camera in my Hand. Because I'm fainting. So I'm fainting. I get back up and I'm filming again. And he's like, can you stop moving? I'm trying to work here. I was like, I'm trying. And he's like, are you all like that?

[A]

Canadians, you know, like wimpy passing out?

[B]

Exactly, exactly.

[A]

Surgery without anesthesia.

[B]

And at the end, he just cut me open. And after he says, okay, so where's the wire? Did you bring the wire? Like, the what? The wire to stitch me up. Oh, it's BYO Bring your own stuff.

[A]

Bring your own medical supplies.

[B]

That's the thing. It's free. But you bring your own stuff. I didn't know. So he says, okay, so we're just gonna put stuff in it into your foot, into the cutting. Like what stuff?

[A]

What do you mean? Stuff? Like old newspapers, almost newspaper.

[B]

Just like cotton or something. And you just put it in inside. And he didn't stitch me up because I didn't bring it. And I spent like a week and a half there.

[A]

You think he would have checked before he cut you open? Hey, you brought the wire that I need to sew you up with, right? Nah, that slipped his mind. I want to hear from my Russian listeners. Is this normal, or did you just go to the worst hospital in all of Moscow? Because, look, we've all heard about the Soviet Union and yada, yada, yada. This is 2005. Is that a normal experience? Because that's actually crazy to me.

[B]

I don't think so. Like, even to me, like, thinking about it, it doesn't seem real. There's no way that's the standard.

[A]

It just can't be. BYO Medical Supplies in 2005 in Moscow. I would expect that type of thing to happen in rural Kazakhstan, where you've also been or something like that. Hey, we don't really have a lot of doctors here. We're going to make do not. This is totally normal, and everybody knows that. This is what it's like. No, Even a regular doctor's office at least has medical supplies. So this did not dissuade you from traveling. It made you want to do it more.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're wired differently than most, I think.

[B]

I would never do that again, of course. But I'm addicted to discovery. I think I'm addicted to new cultures, new experience, and the whole psychology around the culture. It was too late. And no matter what, if they cut me open, I'm going to keep doing it.

[A]

I guess you're lucky you still have your Foot after the experience.

[B]

Yes, I have a big scar, but,

[A]

yeah, that's crazy to me.

[B]

When I arrived in Thailand, like a month later, it started to get swollen again. I just got some antibiotics and in two days it was gone. And the doctor there told me, like, it was absolutely pointless to cut you open for sure. Of course, it's not a real medical procedure.

[A]

So I feel like you just found a random janitor who was like, I'm gonna tell this guy I'm a doctor. It's possible I'm gonna cut him open because I'm a sick bastard and then not sew him back up and just see what happens. Sounds a little dicey. I don't know. I'm going to go with it. That's not the usual experience. Okay. And we're going to flash forward a little bit because I watched every episode of the latest season of your show. So this show, I've never seen anything like it. Is the name just tribal?

[B]

Tribal.

[A]

Okay. I watched it with subtitles, which thankfully, your wife was kind enough to create for me. I've never seen anybody do this. I've never seen anybody go and just wander into the middle of nowhere and show up essentially on the doorstep of a tribe and just be like, hey, guys, I'm going to hang out with you for a week. It just seems like a dangerous kind of thing to do. So the first episode one, Hadzabe, where are they? Because there's a drone shot or something. If there's nothing around you, you're a dot in a desert.

[B]

It's in Tanzania. The capital is Arusha and It's, I think, 100 kilometers at least from there. So it's in Tanzania. It's quite a remote area. The Hadzabi tribe are one of the last tribes of hunters and gatherers today still living. Traditionally, they're probably the last one with bows and arrows.

[A]

So nomadic, are they? Nomadic?

[B]

Semi nomadic, yes. So they come back to some huts for certain parts of the year and after they pack up for another part of the year and they move out because they eat also fruits and roots. So once they have eaten everything around, they move around like this.

[A]

I see. Man, it's crazy when you go to this place. First of all, you said never arrive empty handed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which is a rule we still have today in most cultures. And you buy this chicken and I was laughing in the first, probably five minutes of the episode because the car drops you off, the road ends. Whatever you would call a road, it's like a dirt stretch. It ends at Some. I don't know, maybe it's a farm or something. And you're just like, all right, bye.

[B]

And.

[A]

And you're walking and you're carrying, like, a cardboard box with a chicken in it. And I'm thinking to myself, you don't even know where you're going. You don't know where they are, and they're going to just see this big white dude with a bow and arrow and a fricking chicken. What is your plan?

[B]

The plan is, before I get there, I don't go, like, randomly and just walk and try to just stumble upon a tribe. There's some kind of intel that tells me, like, some locals that, oh, they've seen them the last time in this area and this area, so we have some good hypothesis of where they might be. So I'm trying to get to this location and try to see if. I cannot see any signs of life, like tracks or signs of old fires or footsteps and stuff like that, or little passage, little roads where they could walk.

[A]

But you're doing this on foot, though. Like, people are like, okay, fine, you know where they are. And that's like saying, hey, I think they're in north San Jose. So you're like, oh, I'll just wander around north San Jose looking for footprints or burned wood in a pile. You're looking for a needle in a haystack, man. You're looking for signs of human life in a desert while taking care of a live chicken. It's so, like, ridiculous. In the beginning, I was like.

[B]

But to be honest, there's some help in preparation before, because, as you say, find someone in the city, find someone in New York. Good luck. Go with your backpack and look around. You know, we need to have kind of a good idea of where they might be. It has to be, like, within 10 kilometers by 10 kilometers, something like that. And after, we have a good guess. And normally people know where they are because they know each other. In the jungle and the savannah, people know each other even from hundreds of kilometers. Oh, yeah. I have a cousin over there in a hundred kilometers in this shrine, this village. So. So there are all kinds of a network, and they can direct you. So that's why it's good to be able to have good social skills, to be able to connect with people, because people will give you information. So to be able to find someone or a group of people, you need to have a lot of discussion with many people. And you get closer and closer and closer. And after, like, there's this moment where you Know, and we see that at the beginning of this episode, I scream. I test something, and I hear a scream back. That's it. The show is on.

[A]

Now, it's pretty damn cool when you're like, I think it's them. And then you're not like, hey, I'm over here kind of deal. And then they give you, like, a resounding confirmation back. It's got to feel pretty good, because how long were you out there wandering around before you found them?

[B]

I would say a week, maybe.

[A]

Oh, wow. Okay. I didn't fully grasp that. I thought he found them, like, the next day. Or maybe it was one long day. I didn't realize you were out there for a week looking for them. What did you feed the chicken?

[B]

The chicken. I try to get the chicken at the end when I'm really sure where they can be. Because, as you say, the goal is to come and to create as fast as possible the relationship. That's the goal. And the whole survival is based on how can I connect as fast as possible with the highest hierarchy? So there are rules when you get into a place and it disapplies to our world. This applies to you and me right now. Every time you come across human beings, you need to understand the hierarchy system. The hierarchy, yes, absolutely.

[A]

You don't have that H sound in French, so people are like, what is he talking about?

[B]

Thanks for correcting me.

[A]

No, I'm not correct. You're speaking fine. It's just I remember when I learned French in middle school. Y' all can't say hotel. You just leave the H off.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And hierarchy's a hard one without the h. So hierarchy. Yeah, there you go. Sound like a Yank already.

[B]

Exactly. So I need to make sure that the rooster, the chicken, was alive. It's really at the end. And you put a little bit of sponge with some water and you try to keep it alive because you're going

[A]

to gift the chicken, right? That's the idea. So if you show up with a dead chicken or something that's basically on its deathbed, it's probably not a great gift.

[B]

I'd say the intention is there.

[A]

It's the thought that counts.

[B]

Here's the dead chicken. The thought counts. You know, humans appreciate that, the intention. But if it's dead for a long time, they're not going to eat it. It's all about food. It's all about survival. It's like a good intention, but you already start with a strike. Because you come here, you expect us to feed you. You Must take care of you. That just dead weight. And you're coming with a present. That is a dead present. So you seem a lot of trouble. So you want to come strong.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense. So this is. Maybe this is a dumb question. I don't know, maybe that's what makes it a good question. Do they normally eat chicken because you're in the middle of the desert. Are there desert chickens that are just out there that they catch? But they know what a chicken is because it's not like they've never seen a permanent civilization before. So is this like an exotic gift? He brought a chicken and all the 10 year old kids are like, dang, I never had a chicken. And the adults are like, I've had a few in my life. Is it that kind of rarity?

[B]

No, it's not that rare, but it's not common either. It's coming from far, it's coming from a town somewhere. You cannot find a chicken around the savannah. So it's, oh, that's a big meal. That's something quite special. It's seen as something special. Everybody's really excited and everybody's like, oh, okay, so cool, thanks. Come.

[A]

I'm trying to find an equivalent in the United States and it's really tough, right? Because I got a bunch of bananas behind you. But those aren't growing anywhere near here. But the supply chain is such that nobody's going to be blown away by the fact that I have bananas in my kitchen. And I guess it's maybe like if somebody brought kangaroo meat and was like, hey man, we should smoke this, that would be very unique. And I've probably maybe had it a couple of times in my life if then. And that was probably fake anyway. Some fake ass kangaroo meat. Just some tourist trap in Australia that pretends to serve kangaroo meat. So I'm trying to relate it to that.

[B]

I think it's a classic bottle of wine. Like a big wine, like, ooh, a nice coffee, fancy. Yeah, something like that. We know what it is. It's rare. We can buy it if we really push it. But now that you're offering, it's great.

[A]

This guy's got good taste. Even though he's wearing Vibram five finger toe shoes. Exactly. By the way, those are tough to walk in, man. You don't find those tough to walk in.

[B]

Actually that was the first episode and I wanted to try these because I knew that we were going to hunt together. So when you go in bow hunting, you have to be dead quiet. But I didn't know that I would hunt baboons during the night. So that's what I've done with them. And baboons are, like, so sensitive, and they hear everything, they see everything. And so you need to be very quiet when you're walking. So I didn't want to bring loud boots, so I brought that, but I hated that. And I took them off, like, after three days because it was hurting, like, my toes.

[A]

Between the toes. Oh, yeah, because all they have between the toes is like a little bit of nylon. Exactly, yeah. They do not hold up well. I remember being like, I'm going to wear these because I have flat feet. So I'm like, oh, my feet feel so good. And they would just get shredded after, like, two months. And you're like, wait a minute, these are expensive.

[B]

This is bullshit.

[A]

Yeah. So you got your bow and arrow when you see them. They're not concerned that a white dude who's essentially armed is wandering into their land. It seems like they would be a little bit like, hey, what's his intention here?

[B]

That's where psychology comes into play. So when you meet someone anywhere, it's your job, when you're communicating with someone to understand the state of mind of the person and to be able to create the right communication so it doesn't increase anxiety. So the first thing that you must neutralize is anxiety. So why would they be anxious? All kinds of reasons. They don't know me, they don't share my language. I'm weird. I have all kinds of gear around me. Am I a threat? Why am I here? So everything new in general for humans are considered a threat, and it will rise anxiety. So my first job, before they see me, just when they hear me, hear my voice, I'm acting to reduce their anxiety. That's my first priority. So much that even when they're going to start looking at me right then I must show them the right signs to lower anxiety. So there's a way to do that. For example, I will create eye contact, but really from far. And I will mimic their body language. Okay. If they start moving forward, I will start moving forward. If they stop, I'm going to stop a bit, but I'm going to keep the eye contact. I'm going to keep moving. I'm going to make some sign until I got the permission to move again. Every movement counts. If you move wrong or at the wrong timing, all they can see is the threat is the bow. I'm white, I'm new. But if I give other things and the other information to process, that's going to take over. And so anxiety will go lower and relationship will go higher. So you're going to make a cross like this. So when you meet someone, you always want to have this cross. You want to increase vulnerability because vulnerability triggers relationships. You cannot make up relationship. You cannot create relationship. It's a result of a process, but you can control vulnerability. And if you increase vulnerability, relationship follows because relationship is a compensation mechanism for vulnerability. So you cannot directly create vulnerability relationship. So you lower anxiety, you increase vulnerability. And this is why you don't feel the threat. And it feels like, oh, it was easy. I worried for nothing. No, it's because everything was there at every millisecond.

[A]

So, yeah, you're waist deep in croc infested water, two days from the nearest doctor, eating mystery seeds from strangers, and suddenly you remembered you needed a discount code for some flavored water. Let's fix that. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by aura Frames. Aura frames is perfect for the family memories that are a little chaotic in the moment and a lot funnier later. We just got back from a family cruise where Jen and I got hit with food poisoning. Like the first meal, which does not. That is the worst way to start a cruise. It was a very real parenting moment, especially for moms, because even when you feel awful, you still have to somehow keep it together for the kids. And Jen was dealing with stomach cramps, making emergency bathroom runs, feeling absolutely miserable, still helping make sure the kids were having fun. It's such a mom thing to do. So now, Yeah, I know. People are like, oh, you didn't even know. I also had it and I also did that. So. But anyway, that's beside the point now when we look back at the trip, we remember both sides of a total chaos for us and these awesome photos of the kids smiling, exploring and having the time of our lives. And that's why we love aura frames. Instead of those photos disappearing into our phones and you never look at those. They're right there in our kitchen and living room, rotating every day, every few seconds. And so we get to relive the great moments and laugh about the disastrous parts as well. Make Mother's day special with Aura frames.

[B]

Name number one by wirecutter.

[A]

You can save on the gifts moms love by visiting auraframes.com or for a limited time, listeners can get $25 off their bestselling carver mat Frame with code Jordan. That's a U R A frames.com promo. Code Jordan. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout.

[B]

Terms and conditions apply.

[A]

This episode is also sponsored by Pakka. It's been freezing here lately. I've been living in one thing, which is my Pakka hoodie. It's warm without being bulky. And what makes Pakka different is the material. It's made from alpaca fiber. Not something you see everywhere. Most people are wearing the same cotton or synthetic stuff. Paca is softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, still breathable, so it keeps you warm without overheating. Kind of like an alpaca, I guess. I like my paca hoodie so much I immediately ordered a second one. That's usually a test for me. If I buy another one, it's a keeper. Also, not a lot of people walking around in alpaca, so it stands out a bit. I've had people ask about it. It's one of those, like low key conversation starters because it's just. It's different enough. And it's not just about comfort. It's durable, it's odor resistant. It's made to. I mean, have you ever smelled alpaca? No, you haven't. Made to last. Plus every piece is made in Peru and comes with an Inca id hand woven by artisans, which is kind of a cool touch. And it's inside. So if you're like, I don't care about hippie stuff like me, then it's not like front and center. If you've been thinking about leveling up your hoodie game, this is your sign to do it now. To grab your Pakka hoodie, go to www.pakkaapparel.com. that's www.p a k a apparel.com. this episode is sponsored in part by AT&T. You know why I love summer? All those plans we made. They finally make it out of the group chat. Seems like there's more time to fit everybody in. Whatever you've got in store this summer, capturing those memories is a must. That's why I love the iPhone 17 Pro I picked up from ATT. Its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone. No awkward cropping or asking strangers to take it. Just the perfect group selfie every time. And ATT makes sharing those moments with everybody easy because you gotta share the pic or it didn't happen, right? Right now at ATT, ask how you can get an iPhone 17 Pro for $0 with eligible iPhone. Trade in any condition requires trade in of iPhone 15 or higher, excluding iPhone 16e and 17e. Requires eligible plan terms and restrictions apply, subject to change. Visit att.comiphone or visit an ATT store for details. If you're wondering how I managed to book all these great authors, thinkers and creators every week, it is because of my network, the circle of people I know, like and trust. I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for. You've heard this spiel a hundred thousand times, haven't you? You've heard it a lot. Fine. Sixminutenetworking.com, many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come join us. The course is free. No shenanigans. Sixminutenetworking.com Fine. Now back to Guillaume Dulude. My wife Jen asked a good question at lunch, which thankfully we ate before because that story about your foot was pretty disgusting. But she asked, what about you bringing diseases and stuff to these tribes? Like, how do you make sure that you don't bring in, I don't know, Covid or something to a tribe that the equivalent of smallpox, Right. That you don't want to give these people, I don't know, something that we have to go take antibiotics for that kills half their tribe or worse.

[B]

Normally there are guidelines. The authorities of every government have some guidelines if you want to do this kind of tourism. And some government do have very strict policies. Some countries do not. For me, I think it's always important. And you must make sure I don't have any symptoms of anything, that I have all my vaccines up to date and I spend enough time in the country so I can confirm that I am in a stable state.

[A]

Oh. So do you go in like a month before and hang out for a

[B]

couple of weeks or. A couple weeks, if it's possible, yes. But sometimes because of the budget and the shooting and we need to make an episode count in a certain amount of days. So ideally, I'm trying to come earlier to spend more times, make sure I'm stable in terms of symptoms or anything. If it's good, I have the green light and now we move forward. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

I was just curious. What about predators and stuff? You said you're out there for a week looking for them. Aren't there things out there that are looking for you because they're hungry and your chicken, I mean, that's attracting attention from whatever big cats or whatever are out there too, right?

[B]

Yes, that's a good question. And to me, it's really exciting, to be honest. It's exciting.

[A]

Why is that exciting because it's a

[B]

game, and it's a game that you're in a hierarchy.

[A]

Yeah. You might not be at the top of the food chain. Exactly. And the only way you're going to find out is when you get the bad news that you're not at the

[B]

top of the food chain. So you need to be good at tracking. You need to be able to spot what are the dangerous animals in a specific area to know the tracks, ideally speaking. And you need some kind of basic experience on how to do that. For example, you walk with the wind in your face. Never the wind blowing your scent forward because it will attract things in front of you. That's not what you want. So you want that your smell go backwards. So you're always advancing, but your smell is going backwards. So you always have a priority on what you can spot before you're getting spot.

[A]

I guess you also have to look behind you and make sure there's nothing

[B]

following you all the time. And that's why I have a bow and arrow. I never carry firearms on that stuff. It's dangerous. It's complicated. And it's not necessary.

[A]

The laws are probably crazy. I mean, you try to import a firearm to Kenya, I mean, do that.

[B]

And it's not necessary. If you know how to act, you're supposed to be safe. But yes, there are predators and you need to watch, especially during the night. You need to know where to sleep.

[A]

Yeah. So where do you sleep? I don't know. You're hanging from a tree or something like that. Like, how are you staying safe with your chicken?

[B]

Yeah, ideally, I liken the trees. But I remember for this show I didn't bring any hammock, so I was just sleeping underground. So what you can do is find a way where you're sheltered, you're protected at the back. And you can, like, put some trees, some bush in front of you to create kind of a wall. And always a fire. Normally when you have a fire, it's going to keep the animals away.

[A]

It would be so hard to keep a chicken safe in an environment like that. It's like having a baby with you. Although of course, you'd care more about a child than a chicken. But you're trying to get something to try to keep things away. It's like when you're camping, you know, you don't keep your food out because bears will get it. So you get a bear bag, but you have a live chicken and it's just like such a pain and it's making noise. What are you sleeping with this thing?

[B]

It's just crazy. You need to defend your chicken. Yeah, you need to defend your chicken or anything you have. Normally, the fire does a good job, but during the night, you always kind of sleep on one ear and you're always waking up, there's a little noise, especially little cracks like this. You hear some cracks. Depending on the noise, you can know if it's a heavier animal or it's a predator. It will create a different noise. So you can get used to that and see, like, oh, this is an elephant, but it's far, it's fine. Or it's cave of buffalo, but it's far. And normally cats, you don't hear them.

[A]

Yeah, you find out when it's too late.

[B]

They're right in your face.

[A]

Jeez, man. Is there a cameraman or are you filming at all?

[B]

There's one cameraman, so we shot the whole thing. Two people.

[A]

Okay. Because I was going to say, if you're filming it, that's a huge pain because you have to set it up and then climb the tree and then get down and then take the camera down. So at least you have that guy help.

[B]

Yes. And the thing that was the most important thing for me is the first approach, the first contact with people, lions and all that stuff. It was not the main priority. Main priority is it has to connect. It cannot not go well with all this trouble. The safety is the safety of the relationship with the people you meet. So this has to go well. So, for example, when I meet people, there's always a rule with the cameraman. So he knows exactly what to do when I'm going to give him special sign where to look when it's time to put camera forward, keep the camera backward. So there's certain steps that he needs to respect. So I'm going to give him the cues. Like, okay, you can follow me. Okay, put the camera down, make eye contact. Okay. That's the right time. Put the camera up now. It's good. It's all little details that goes really fast. But the goal is to never obstruct the relationship process. That's what you want to do.

[A]

I had some questions about that somewhere later in my notes because I'm thinking, if you're meeting them and the chief comes out and is eyeballing you, and he's got a camera that's behind you, and he puts it in that guy's face, that's going to just blow the whole thing. The guy's going to be like, who is this Fricking guy. And what is this thing? I assume that things can go wrong really quickly and then they just don't want anything to do with you.

[B]

Absolutely. And respect seems just a value, actually. Respect is a science, respect is a sport. Respect is knowing exactly which line you're supposed to cross and when. And the only way you can know that is by observing the other person. The other person will give you the answer on what to do and the timing of certain things. So when I have certain signs, I know that it's safe to, for example, lift the camera a bit or move forward or bring the cameraman to next to me. Otherwise it's not safe. So I need to have the right authorization and I need to have the right authorization of the right hierarchy. So I don't need any authorization. I need to know where the order is coming from. And sometimes it's hard to tell because you come here right away. I'm like, who's the boss? Who's leading here? And it's not always obvious. Most of the time it has something to do with age. The older the better because age means that you have overcame many challenges and there's a lot of respect related to age and experience. So normally you're going to look at the older person or the most decorated person. You'll see if this is the person in authority. So you want to create the relationship first with this person and after it's going to go down the hierarchy.

[A]

Yeah. Have you ever met up with a tribe and they're like hostile or anything? Has that ever happened?

[B]

Hostile? No, but very resistant.

[A]

Yeah. Resistant is probably a better word. Yeah. Otherwise you'd have a hole in you by now.

[B]

But yeah, you need to be careful and you need to see these signs of resistance really far. If you don't see these signs, you just keep walking and say, hey, I have good intentions, but the world doesn't work with intentions. Did I read something in your face that I wanted to or not? It's not. Yeah, but trust me, inside myself, I have a good intention. It doesn't matter. So safety wise, you need to know when people have problems with you and you need to keep your distance and, and you need to show them that they will lead. If you're trying to do too much, even with good intention, you can get hit in the face. So you need to always show that you understand their rules and you play by their rules and you're always listening to them. If they feel that you're always listening and responding in a way that they want the Anxiety will lower, vulnerability in relationship will increase. But sometimes it's long because some society has been invaded, has been tortured and had bad relationship with tourism and other people. So you need to be sensitive to that. And sometimes you can't know. But what you can't see is to read the right mechanisms in terms of psychological mechanisms and behavioral mechanisms. And you can see that.

[A]

So an example was you gave plenty. But like how you approach slowly, there's one where you waited for the chief to smile before smiling back at him. My instinct, not that I've ever met at a tribe in the middle of nowhere, but I'd be like, oh, just be really smiley. And then they'll like me or find me vulnerable. But that's not quite how you want

[B]

to handle that, now that you mention it, saying like that, it's true that it's weird because we feel that because we have positive intentions, it should work. Not really, because there are all kinds of reasons why you would be smiling, but it doesn't mean that the reasons are good for me as well.

[A]

That's a good point. Yeah.

[B]

So when you're interacting with someone, you can feel whatever, however you want. But you need to ask yourself, like, what is the state, the mental state of the other person? And if you put yourself in his shoes or her shoes, how this person will understand my smile? What does it mean? And if it's not clear, it will increase doubt. Like, what are you laughing at? I don't see. So you increase the doubt just because you just did a small facial expression at the wrong timings. Normally what I like to do is that I just listen to the other person and I just wait that this person is showing me the emotional direction where we're going. So if the person, for example, is really not in a good mood, very serious, I'm going to keep it like this. I'm going to keep the distance, I'm going to keep the attention on the other person. But I will mimic normally, but not artificially mimic. Not just like a robot, not like that. But I want to show the person that I get how he feels. I don't maybe understand everything because I don't know this person. I don't know the culture or the language, but I'm going to mimic that. And if, for example, the other person loosen up and smile, I'm going to follow the vibe. And this way you tell the other brain, like, I'm following your lead. No matter where you go, in your head, in your heart, physically I'm following you. So as soon as people say, okay, so you will obey. You're not a threat anymore. So that's the trick. But subtle.

[A]

This is interesting. It reminds me of if you smile or you laugh and it's the wrong time, it'll increase doubt. You ever seen a video of Tom Cruise just having an interview? He laughs wildly at very weird things and weird times. And it's fake. It's obviously just fake. Like he's doing something, I don't know what, but he's acting, performance.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It is so bizarre. And it doesn't make you feel like, look at this relatable guy. What you're thinking, at least. What I'm thinking is something is wrong with this person. He's mentally not all there. That's what I always think when I see him on Oprah or in a Scientology video or something that I'm researching. I'm just like, this guy's got screws loose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You probably wouldn't want to communicate that to a tribe where you're like, hey, can you let me into your house? I want to live with you for a week.

[B]

Yeah, but this is what I mean by respect. Respect is about knowing exactly what you must do at a certain timing according to the rules in place. You don't know the rules, and the only thing you can know is how to read someone.

[A]

What do you know about the tribes beforehand? Hit the Wikipedia. Okay, fine, but what else? What do you know? Do you know what they eat? Do you know their history? How much research are you doing before you meet them?

[B]

I do as much research as possible because I've been in maybe 50, 70 tribes in my life.

[A]

Oh, really? Okay. Because I saw five. I assumed that there was seasons prior, but I didn't know it was like dozens and dozens.

[B]

That's my best sport, to meet people, creating relationship, reading people, analyzing people. I love it.

[A]

That's really cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't realize you'd done so much of this. That's neat.

[B]

Yes. I'm trying to read as much thing as I can because it's going to help with empathy. Empathy is accelerated if you have more information to understand the other person's reality. So you're going to do research where they live with their history, long history, recent history. Is it a hard period for them right now? Is there a food crisis? Is there a social crisis? Sometimes in the bush, there's all kinds of tribal wars and nobody talks about that.

[A]

And you cannot know it's not making the newspaper.

[B]

No. But sometimes you need to be very careful. I got some really weird surprises in Papua New guinea, which is not on the TV show. But I saw someone getting his head cut off right in front of me because there was a war between two tribes. One tribe killed one person of the other tribe. And so instead of seeking revenge, they set a compensation, 30 pigs to repay the life. But the compensation didn't work. And so there was still a conflict. And I saw someone just putting the ax on someone's head. So you need to be aware of that. That's why it's a real jungle. You need psychology. You need to read people. The answers are there.

[A]

Trade you this white guy. If the pigs didn't work out, we got this white guy you guys might be interested in. We got this.

[B]

You want that? Yeah.

[A]

Oh, man. So this tribe, I can't believe we're still in episode one. It's just so interesting. They offer you some seeds to eat initially. How do you know that's safe to eat? Did you know what that was or were you just like, cool, I guess I'll swallow a handful of these.

[B]

That's a good question. The question is, what's going to help me survive there, without a doubt, is relationship. You have, like, timings or special opportunity. You can boost the relationship. And how to do that, you increase vulnerability. How do you get vulnerable? You take a risk. If you take a risk and you put your health in their hands, you show an extreme amount of vulnerability, and it's going to score relationship like nothing. So especially in the first minutes, we have more energy. Emotional energy is going well. Anxiety is getting lower. There's a momentum when you meet someone, and I want to keep this momentum. So if I refuse this present because, oh, wait, what is this? I'm not sure. You slow down the momentum.

[A]

Is there gluten in here?

[B]

Is there gluten? Is the gluten.

[A]

I'm lactose intolerant.

[B]

How many calories? So it's like there's an opportunity there. And so they're sacrificing food. They are vulnerable. They're sacrificing food for me, and they don't know me. So they're getting vulnerable.

[A]

It's like an offer. Yeah.

[B]

And so I must reciprocate the vulnerability if they become vulnerable. It's like saying, like, look, I want to be with you. And you say, not for me, thank you.

[A]

Not right now.

[B]

Rejection, instant anxiety go up and you feel rejected. The walls are closed off. You can't afford that. So whatever they will offer, you put that in your mouth and you eat that. Like, tic Tacs.

[A]

When I was in Peru on one of my crazy trips, there was a shaman that was hanging out with us for a day. And I was walking with him and asking him about stuff in Spanish because he spoke a little bit of Spanish. And he gave me this huge wad of coca leaf. And I was like, oh, what do I do with this? And he's like, you put it in your mouth. And I was like, oh, man, I don't want to be like, no, thanks. So I just put this huge wad of coca leaf in my mouth and I thought it would do more than it did. Maybe I built a tolerance when I lived in la. I don't know. Yeah, I was like, oh, it was supposed to make you buzz. It basically just sort of gently numbs part of your mouth. I don't know. I remember thinking, this could lead down a bad road, man, if I have a reaction to this or there's, you know, a plant in here that I'm allergic to. But I didn't want to be like, I don't know, I didn't want to offend the guys hanging out with us, showing us all this stuff in the jungle and whatever. I got travel insurance.

[B]

Lucky you.

[A]

Yeah, lucky me. Exactly. How do you show them that you want to film them? How do you even explain what you're doing? Do they know what the camera is or are they like, what the heck is this?

[B]

It depends where you go. Sometimes they have seen one before, sometimes no. If they know what it is, that's fine, you save some time. But sometimes it's like there are no words or you cannot really explain what you're going to do with that and what's the point? And it's just a machine. The most important thing is that they agree. They accept, they feel comfortable that we use it. And normally we show them, like, look, we take images and we show them.

[A]

Right? Yes, exactly.

[B]

To say like, look, this is souvenir. And if you don't want it, we don't use it. If you want it. If you accept, we use it. So we always give them the authority if we use it or not. Most of the time I never film until I have enough of relationship. If the relationship is not established yet, I'm not filming because the camera is stealing from them. Yeah, it's like, I'm here to shoot a film, it's for me, so I'm using you. For me, this is a lack of respect, so you cannot do that.

[A]

That's why people hate influencers. I'm here working on, you're frigging filming me and I'm shopping. Why are you filming me?

[B]

So this is a hard stop for respect. You cannot do that until the relationship is good enough. No problem. And you have the green light from the person in authority. And after, it's good. And after, you can film whatever you want. But it has to be done in a certain order.

[A]

You said never start giving things away other than the initial welcome gift, which is maybe the chicken or some other thing. Why is that? They'll pick you clean or what?

[B]

Because the way the brain creates relationship is in direct competition with any source of reinforcement. Every dopamine source will be in competition with the relationship. Okay? So if you want to create relationship, you must play on psychological mechanisms. Only if you put external rewards or external factors that are high in dopamine, which is something that tastes good, something that creates power, something that is rare, something that is shiny. If all these things are very high in dopamine, if you try to create a relationship and you put a reinforcement between the two, the reinforcement will crush the relationship and you become distributor.

[A]

Your vending machine of dopamine.

[B]

Exactly. Items, you must never give anything valuable. Never. If you give something, it must be with low value. That is always lower in dopamine than the relationship itself. So, for example, let's say you and me, okay, we build a relationship. The relationship is high. You can give me a present, I can give you a present. As long as it's not like a Lamborghini, you understand? Like, this is too much for what our relationship can take. So there is a ratio between the dopamine aspect of a certain reward and. And the relationship. And even if you do things perfectly, you can corrupt relationship like this with objects.

[A]

Interesting. All right, I'll take an Aston Martin instead, then.

[B]

That's it. That's the right range. Yeah.

[A]

It's crazy to me that you don't know what they're saying, because in the subtitles that I read that your wife made. Thank you again. They're explaining all these things to you about arrows and poison, but in the moment, you don't know what they're talking about. You're just sitting there and they're like, hey, this one will kill you. This one you eat. And you're basically just being polite sitting there in the corner. So you're inferring everything that you can, obviously.

[B]

So what happens is that when I want to create the relationship first, the first 24 hours, first two days, I want only me and the cameraman, but I will arrange that the relationship will go through my eyes only. So they will create attachment with me. And the cameraman is like just an inoffensive thing hanging around. We want it like this.

[A]

So he doesn't talk? The cameraman?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

That's interesting because they think something's wrong with him. Because he's not talking?

[B]

No, because the way we designed the process, he's just my friend who is not really talkative.

[A]

I see.

[B]

But he's not a threat. He's with me. And if they trust me and I'm telling them like he's my friend, he's with me, it's not a problem because I'm supposed to be in hierarchy. Okay. So I'm the boss of this thing. Not really. They must believe that I'm the boss and therefore he's my friend. He's not offensive. So when I start the first contact, I want them to focus on my eyes only. So the first few minutes I will tell my cameraman, like, drop the camera, make eye contact, and as soon as possible go back to your camera and go hide your eyes. That way you force the other people to focus their attention on my eyes only. It takes more energy to synthesize relationship with many people at the same time. So it's going to slow things down a bit. So what I want is that they focus only on the relationship with me. So I'm going to tell my cameraman to put his head back on the camera. So we don't have much access. But he's fine, he's not a threat. But I will keep the eye contact for me. So once the relationship is strong enough, normally, for the sake of the show, there's a translator that will come on day three or day four.

[A]

Okay. Because I was thinking, how have you not eaten the poison or caused some sort of epic big misunderstanding if you don't have a clue what they're talking about?

[B]

Yes, at certain point we need some verbal language, because relationship does not rely on verbal language, but abstract thinking, coordination, naming stuff, objects, categories. It's all mental representation. It's all language. So at certain point, we need that to be able to make a show. But the relationship does not depend on the words at all.

[A]

He's out there risking death by snake infection or just being politely murdered by a tribe. And you, well, you're saving big on the fine products and services that support this show. Two peas in a pod. Just saying. We'll be right back. This episode is also sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Financial stress isn't always Just about not having enough. Sometimes it's about feeling like no amount is enough. It's comparison, pressure, and that voice in your head telling you that you should be further along by now. That stuff can wear on you. Even when from the outside everything looks fine. Even I fall victim to that. I look what I built. Instead of thinking like, this is great, my brain goes to, yeah, well, why didn't you build something even bigger, Jordan? Why isn't the show 10 times larger? That's the trap. And therapy can help you sort through that. Not because it's going to tell you how to make more money, but because it'll help you deal with the stress and anxiety that come from tying your value to achievement. BetterHelp matches you with a licensed therapist based on a short questionnaire. And if the fit is not right, you can switch anytime. I've done it myself a couple of times. They have over 30,000 therapists. They've helped more than 6 million people worldwide, and live sessions have an average of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client reviews. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can definitely help. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Jordan that's betterhelp.com Jordan this episode is brought to you in part by Lufthansa. When people talk about travel, they usually focus on the destination, the hotel, the restaurants, all the stuff that happens after you land. But the flight is part of the experience, too. Just like a great hotel can shape an entire trip, so can a great flight. That's exactly what Lufthansa Allegris is built around. On a long haul route, comfort matters more than people realize. If you're cramped, tired, and can't relax, you feel it the second you land. But when a flight is comfortable, you can actually stretch out, rest, work, or just enjoy the ride. It changes the whole trip. I was thinking about that on my recent Intercontinental Lufthansa flight. I got so comfortable, I honestly didn't want the flight to end, which is not something you say very often after a long international trip. That's why Lufthansa Allegris stands out. It's built around the idea that people travel differently. Lufthansa Allegris business class has five seat options. You've got the suite, the privacy seat and the extra long bed, the extra space seat and the classic seat so you can choose what works for you. And that's what I like most. It feels elevated, but still practical. More privacy, more comfort, more thoughtful design for the way people actually travel. Now visit lufthansa.com and search for Allegris to learn more. Lufthansa Allegris. All it takes is a yes. Limited availability on select routes. More routes coming soon. If you like this episode of the show, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment. Support the amazing sponsors who make this show possible. They're all searchable and clickable on the [e-mail] deals if you can't remember the name of a sponsor, you can't find the code. Email me jordanordanharbinger.com, we're happy to surface codes for you. It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now back to Guillaume Dulude. When the translator shows up, they must be like, okay, we're all dying to know, why did this guy show up here? Like, there's gotta be some funny moments because the translator's. Oh, yeah, no. Everybody's been asking me all day, like, where did you come from and why are you here? Surely even if you're friendly and they got this relationship, you still fell out of the sky with a bow and arrow and a chicken.

[B]

Absolutely, yes. When the translator comes day two or day three, there's a big meeting. Oh, we're going to have more precise information. So now I get more. The names. I'm better to understand how they pronounce certain things because sometimes there's the click that. Yeah, all these things. Most names, these tribes have clicks and it's hard to do this kind of. They're different.

[A]

They're all different.

[B]

They're all different.

[A]

So it's like, that's cool though.

[B]

You go to another level and you love languages as me, it's always so interesting. And so you need some help for that. And when they start telling their story, where they're born, who's their family, they have sometimes many wives, and it's like, okay, you guys are related. Okay, so it's another layers. But for me, this will never have priority. But the relationship does have their priority.

[A]

Yeah, that's super cool. I know. You let them help you set up and teach you things, and it sort of increases hospitality. That's a vulnerability lever, I suppose, in the tribes, most of them anyway, that you mentioned, nobody's more wealthy than the others. The leadership is mostly based on age, like you mentioned, but people can even switch clans if they want to, but nobody owns a bunch of stuff and the other person's poor. It's pretty interesting how they set it up.

[B]

Yeah, that's how we come from nomadic lifestyle. It's like, belongings are not useful. It's only useful when you start agriculture and you can start gathering things and there's an economy system. But when you just hunt and eat fruits, like on the way where you're walking, you don't need any stuff. It's just dead weight. I remember, I think in this tribe, in the morning, they just wake up and they just gather together, they go for a walk. They're gonna go to try find something to eat. So we walk one behind another, and they find like a bush with fruits, and they all, like bees go on it. And they eat everything in the bush, and it's like, empty in two minutes. And it's like this bush is finished. And you keep walking, you find something else. So you have to be quick.

[A]

Yeah, there's probably some competition. Who can shove the most berries in their face?

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

If people switch clans, how does that work? You just wander over to the next one and you're like, hey, there's no girls here. I'm looking for a wife. Can I hang out here?

[B]

It depends of the community, depends of the culture. But what I can assure you is that there are rules. All they have is themselves, us humans, their family, their community. So everything is structured. Families are structured, alliances are structured. The roles, the titles. Everybody has a title. There's not random. They all have prestigious title. They're all sitting around a fire and they're gonna say, I'm the president of this thing.

[A]

It's like a Silicon Valley startup. I'm the chief experience officer. Dude, there's four people in your company. Calm down.

[B]

That's exactly how it is. It's crazy how similar we behave, all human beings. It's crazy. It's the same tradition, the same concept, the same instincts, but just with new disguise, new costumes. It's the same. You go in a tribe, they all have, like, special responsibility. And every time I'm stunned, I'm like, now what? What's your title? And they're going to say, like, I'm the chairman of cultural. And you're. It's like, what the hell do you mean? And sometimes feel like you want to judge. It's like, come on, guys. But that's the culture, and everybody has a special title. They're all special and they're all proud of themselves. So when you switch from one clan to the other, one village to the other, you need some kind of agreement, you need some kind of authority, saying like, yes, you're allowed to move in. What are you going to do? Who's your dad? And there's going to be a voting system.

[A]

Dang.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Every move is decided collectively, and there's a structure behind it. It's not. Look, I'm in love.

[A]

Everybody else has to deal with it.

[B]

Yeah, no, like, your love is your problem. We need to survive. We need to organize our resources. What are you good at? Are you good? Are you a good man? I am a good man. Why? Like, what's the proof? What have you done? Nothing. You're not good. So when you're gonna be good, come back. So you need proof to earn stuff. You need to actually work. In our society, we have this thing called self esteem.

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna say this is a totally different take. Yeah.

[B]

And it doesn't work. Yeah, but I'm special. I'm worth a lot. I deserve a lot. Why do you say that? How are you special? You're not special. You're unique.

[A]

But that's not the same thing as special.

[B]

You're unique, but you're not special. So when you're surviving in a difficult environment. Don't talk to me about how special you are. Don't talk about it. Show me how many cows you have. Show me what have you done. How many houses have you built? Show me things. And after, you will be worth something. And after, you can get married. And after. But you have to do something. You cannot sell yourself like this. This is not a pitch. So here in our modern world, we have this idea of personal value, but it's more potential than value. You actually need to do things.

[A]

It's more of a meritocracy in many ways.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There's a part where you go with the men and you're making poison for the arrows, and you're out hunting with these guys with a bow. And I was just thinking, I literally said out loud, bro, good luck. Like, you're just hanging out in a rock in Africa. Just, I've got this. I know you've trained with the bow, but these guys live and die by this thing. They must have been so skilled. And this is with the monkeys. I think they were shooting the monkeys at night. I'm just thinking, this is next level difficult. This is not a target range. This is a moving monkey that hears you and is dark.

[B]

These guys do stuff that I can't even imagine. They have these bows and arrows that they do themselves and just doing that, sitting on the ground, and they can shoot a bird flying in the air,

[A]

a moving target far away.

[B]

Easy, easy all the time. And they won't miss a lot. It's just like, how did you like. I have like a pulley bows in the.

[A]

Compound bow.

[B]

Yeah, compound bow, exactly. And like super strong arrows and all that stuff. Like, I cannot be that accurate, but.

[A]

Right. The difference is you have to hit the target. So hitting a target with a stick arrow beats missing the target with a steel arrow? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. They seem to genuinely be enjoying your company. And vice versa, though, like, it seemed like these guys are having a pretty good time. It would be like I guess if you were at work one day in a place where you never see anybody new and a celebrity shows up to help you one day with a video camera and you're just stoked. They seem really excited. They're showing you how they live. And it must be an incredible feeling to just be in the company of these people who are like, they genuinely accept you. They're like, come hunt monkeys with us. And you're like, sure thing. And now you're there doing that. It's like it never happens to them. It's never probably ever going to happen to them again in their life, maybe. And you get to do that. You're the one guy doing that. It's pretty cool.

[B]

This is the ultimate reward to create a bond, to create relationship with people so different. It's just. It's the reward by itself. That's my draw. Creating relationships, understanding people. And anybody can do it. You can train, you can learn how to do that, but it's still when it happens, if you know how to do it, it's a privilege. It's an awesome honor to share these moments with these kind of community with anyone. To be honest with anyone, whether it's a tribe in South Africa or anywhere meeting someone new to go in their home, it's an awesome privilege.

[A]

I'm surprised they don't want your bow when you leave because this is their survival tool.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It would be like if you hunted all your food with a musket and somebody showed up with a laser rifle from the future, I would be like, bro, maybe you leave that thing with me. That's pretty damn cool. Do they ask her that?

[B]

That's a really good question. Because I not creating a pattern where they feel that they can ask for objects.

[A]

I see.

[B]

Okay. We value relationship and we don't ask for stuff. So they don't do that. But they don't do that because the way we develop the relationship is that we keep our things. And so, no, they value their relationship. And they're not like, oh, I want this stuff. I want this stuff. They just see me for me. And so this is very important. And that's a problem in tourism in general, because tourists go there with a lot of money and they want to do good. But the problem is that they're not as good to create the right type of relationship. And it becomes a mess, unfortunately. This is how you corrupt villages with tourism. This is bad tourism, unfortunately, because you arrive with your bling, bling all your stuff, and you say, I'm going to make poor people happy. I'm going to give my stuff away. You must never give anything except something that is relevant to the culture. Only this. If you bypass that, you corrupt the whole culture and you corrupt the relationship with you. But for the future, people that will come now, they will expect objects. This is how you ruin relationships.

[A]

The only experience I have that's even remotely close to this is going to North Korea. Because they had never seen any of the things that we had. And so we went to the city and our guides were like, all right, you're in the middle of town. There's all these kids roller skating around. We can just hang out here, that we're going to get some coffee and stuff. And. Which is rare. Usually you don't have downtime, especially not with the locals around. And I had this camera that was like a Polaroid that would print also.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And also it saved them digitally, so I didn't need the prints. So what I was doing was taking photos of kids and stuff, with their permission, obviously, and then giving them the print. And I'm like, oh, I'll save my digital copy for at home. And I remember, like, the word got around in this little square. And so all these fathers were in line with their kids, and we would take a picture and give it to them. And one guy who spoke like the tiniest bit of English, another guy spoke a little bit of Chinese. He explained that they didn't have any photos of themselves with their kids at all. And maybe there were either zero or one school photo of just their kid, no family photos, nothing with them and their son ever. So we were giving them this really cool, really precious, probably they couldn't even buy it kind of gift. And no one asked for the camera. They just wanted the print. And even then they tried to pay us in, like, local money, which we can't even use any to buy anything with. So we didn't accept it. And kids were trying to give us their toys in exchange for the prints. Nobody wanted the actual device. I remember my friend was like, dude, no one's asked you to give that to them or even touch it or anything. Yes, we found that just shocking. It is probably the same principle.

[B]

Absolutely. And what is interesting about pictures, it's not just any object, it's an object that reflects the relationship. Picture is a special object because there are all kinds of objects that can go in competition with the relationship because it's high dopamine, but this is high dopamine, but it's merged with image of yourself so it does not contaminate the relationship. The respect remains really high. But I'm really happy you bring that up because it's one of the rare objects that still fits in the realm of positive relationship. It's one of the only.

[A]

I often think there's a bunch of North Korean dudes in the city of Wonsan with a Polaroid from my camera stuck on the wall and it's the only photo they have of them with their six year old kid at that age. And it's pretty cool that I was able to.

[B]

I think it's touching. It's a souvenir. It's not just like any object. I'm for that. I'm for Polaroid. Absolutely.

[A]

That camera got a lot of mileage. Dude, you would go to a school and take a picture of one kid. And every kid wants a photo, right? Every kid. Once I brought 50 and I thought this would last the whole trip. And then the next trip I brought 200 and I think I came home with three left.

[B]

Oh, it was awesome. It's powerful.

[A]

It's powerful.

[B]

Polaroid. It's like everything we want. Souvenirs, history, relationship. A special moment that you will remember. I know, it's. I love it.

[A]

Those little travel cams are like one of the coolest things. And I should do that on one of my adventure trips. Cause sometimes you meet bedouins or something on these trips or whatever and it's part of the trip. It's not a random. But they don't go to town and do this. And now unfortunately, a lot of these, even the shaman had Android phone he was using. Like occasionally there was no phone service, but I mean, he just had it. I don't know, maybe it had a map on it. And I thought like, all right, the world is just almost too modern now for this to matter as much as it did. Look, I come from a place of privilege to be able to say that, oh, it's too bad he has a phone in clothing. It would Be more interesting for me if it was still.

[B]

He was dressing with leaves in the stone age.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, man. The point at which you're all collecting honey out of this huge tree with the beehive in it, they're all getting stung, right. They're sticking their arm in this hive. And you tried it. Even little kids were doing it because they have smaller arms. What happened when you tried it?

[B]

I always try to contribute in whatever activities I'm involved. I don't want to feel like I'm just eating their stuff and being bored. I want to try to do something. Even though like I act like a 4 year old and I know nothing and I don't really contribute, but they let me try. So it's the intention. Right. And so I was looking at the guys and everybody trying to get honey inside the tree, the full arm inside and the bees going everywhere. And it's like Star wars was got

[A]

to stick his hand in that thing. And you don't know what's going to happen.

[B]

Yes, it's like that. Or June.

[A]

June or June. Yeah. But here's the thing. You know what's gonna happen? You're gonna get stung. So it's actually almost worse.

[B]

Yeah. So I saw like six year old kids do it. I'm like, I'm a grown up man.

[A]

This should be no problem.

[B]

And I work out. It's no problem.

[A]

I'm tough. I was almost an Olympic swimmer. I got this.

[B]

Exactly. I just put like half of my fingers in it and I got stung so hard like it was like an electric shock for my whole body. I was like, guys, what are you doing? And they're being bitten thousands of times. Like it's nothing, the face and they're just like this and they're eating honey and smiling. And after I got like my first huge allergic reaction because I didn't even know I was allergic to bees.

[A]

So could it be only a certain kind of bees or did you just get stung so many times that you had a reaction?

[B]

I got tested afterwards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I became interested.

[A]

I would do.

[B]

And I realized that I am allergic to all kinds of wasps, bees. And so I'm allergic.

[A]

Good thing you brought an EpiPen because you're what, like two days away from a doctor?

[B]

At least. And it's the first time that I carried an EpiPen in my life. It's just because the production company said, look, you need to bring that. I'm like, okay, whatever, fine.

[A]

I'll never use this.

[B]

I use both.

[A]

So you need both for the One reaction, oh, dang.

[B]

Yeah. Because it was not going away. After four hours of the first one, I took another one.

[A]

How do you get water?

[B]

That's so funny. You're thirsty, so you're asking, like, where's the water? And they're going to say, like, they

[A]

don't have a well or anything.

[B]

You have to look for it. And they're going to say, oh, you need to go to the river. I'm like, okay, yeah, fine. Let's go to the river. So you walk for like a couple of hours, you go to the river. And classic. There's no water. The water's gone. And they're like, there's a river. Like, yeah, but there's no water. He says, yeah, but it's a river. It's like, why do you think I need a river? I always get caught like this. I'm looking for a river. They're always proud in many places around the world. Here's the waterfall. Go to a waterfall. Here's the waterfall. I said, where's the water? Yeah, but there's no water right now.

[A]

You should see it in springtime.

[B]

Why am I here?

[A]

Why?

[B]

But you said we wanted to see a river. Waterfall. But yet for the water. But we didn't know that. And that's why you say, like, okay, let's just. Different cultures. You didn't know that. So in this special tribe, in this river, there's a way to find water. You need to dig a hole inside the waterbed, and there's going to be a little bit of water going up and you drink right inside the hole. So you dig, there's some water underneath.

[A]

Is that dangerous? Because there's microbes in the ground and stuff.

[B]

Of course they're used to it.

[A]

Not they're used to it. But what about you? Do you use a filtered straw or something?

[B]

I boil it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, Boil it.

[A]

Yikes. So you're thirsty when you're done with these.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, first thing is a beer. And.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And I remember the beers coming out of this drive. My face was still half swollen and I was, like, so thirsty. And, yeah, the beer was really good. And it's so hot. So anything cold is just, oh, my God, how could I live?

[A]

Like, first gas station on the way back to civilization, it's like, all right, I want all of the ice, Coca Cola and the beer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, man. How does baboon taste? Because you ate a baboon hand or whatever. That looked kind of like a bony mess.

[B]

It's quite horrible. Yeah.

[A]

It looked pretty gross, man, they were

[B]

so happy because they were giving me, like, the hand and the whole hand, like, with the fingernails, and the hand is like this. And I'm like, where's the food on the hand? And they just cut, you know, the muscle, the thumb muscle there. So you eat that. You have some muscle there. Just eat the fingers like this.

[A]

My wife eats like that. She would be fine. I'd starve. Oh, yeah, she can. She could demolish a chicken wing. Yeah.

[B]

And it was funny because we hunt this baboon during the night, and so there is absolutely no light at all. I couldn't see anything at all. But they can see in the night. They have night vision. And I couldn't even see my hand in front of me. Nothing. They were grabbing my hand. Me and the cameraman, we were just, like, following them like this. Couldn't see nothing. Nothing. And so they were trying to hunt the baboon, but the baboon could hear us. And so they said, like, look, you're too noisy. Just stay there. We're going to pick you up afterwards. So me and my cameraman were just, like, in the jungle, like this, pitch black, just waiting forever, like that. They're going to come back. We cannot get out of there. They need to come back. So we're like this. And after half an hour, they come back with two big baboons, and we're like, yeah, we got it. They shot it in the dark. It's unbelievable.

[A]

That is impressive. Do you have a favorite person when you meet new tribes after a while? Like, is there one person you connect with the most and you maybe are bummed when you got to leave?

[B]

Yes. It's always sad for me. I always get attached. I bond quite well with the people I meet. And so everybody's crying. I cry. And, yeah, it's hard.

[A]

Have the people in these tribes ever seen a white person before? Like, I guess if you're old enough, you've been to town to pick up, like, I don't know, fishing supplies or bricks or, I don't know, clothes. But the kids probably have never seen anybody who's not in their tribe.

[B]

Yeah, it depends on the tribes. And yes, as you say, the age. It happens a lot with younger kids, our babies, when they see me, they start to cry because they think that I'm a ghost. That's what. Because I'm white. I'm coming from the other world, the dead. So I'm like a ghost. They see me like, waa. I remember in Papua New guinea, like, Everywhere where I was going, like the kids were like running everywhere. There's a ghost, there's a ghost. And of course adults, they have move around and they don't think I'm a ghost. So yeah, this can happen.

[A]

Some of the stuff on the show is pretty nerve wracking. Like there's one where you were waist deep in the water and there's kids canoeing on a log and you're like, oh, hey guys. And then there's a 12 foot alligator carcass. At what point are you like, wait, that thing was in here with me alive? There might be another one of those. What killed the 12 foot alligator? Was it a 14 foot alligator? I'm walking through this and they're on a boat. Like, maybe I should get on a boat.

[B]

Yes, I remember that. It was in Ethiopia, if I remember correctly. Yes, they have big crocodiles there. I think it's Nile crocodile, which are the biggest. Some people went in the water like waist deep. They were doing crocodile traps. So they were inspecting traps and. Oh, so they eat the crocodiles? They eat crocodiles and fish, of course. So they're fishing. Mostly fishing. But of course there are crocodiles around. But I don't know, they're just walking. But I was really nervous following them around, like, and the cameraman was just behind me and we were looking at each other like, yeah, I just keep walking and now it's really scary. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I don't know if I can handle that. I wonder how you learn so much about nature. Because there's a point where you come across this termite mound and it's 30ft high or whatever, 10 meters high, and you're like, oh, they can be twice that. And you gotta be careful around them. Not because there's termites, but there's snakes that eat them. And sometimes they're inside these things. By the way, I thought this was fascinating. The snakes are there. Cause birds come to eat the termites and snakes have learned that the birds come to the termite mound so they hang out. So it's not the snakes eating the termites, it's the snakes eating the birds that eat the termites. But where do you learn stuff like that? Is it from the tribe or what?

[B]

Yes. When you spend a lot of time in nature and you talk with people that live in nature, they're going to teach you so many things. And I love animals. I've always been interested by animals. And so I remember once I was sitting on one termite mounds and one of the tribesmen I Remember said, you should get up. I'm like, why? He says, there's a hole inside this termite mount. I'm like, okay. So he says, probably there's a snake inside it. I'm like, wow. And also it's maybe 40 degrees, so

[A]

it's nice and cool in there.

[B]

Yeah, it's cool inside. And they come out at night so you can get bitten easily.

[A]

Scary, man. Nature is, like, unforgiving.

[B]

It's unbelievable that you're going to miss all that if you don't know what you're looking at. And for me, when I see an expert in nature and can describe everything he sees in nature, for me, it's the same thing when I look at someone in psychology. So many things you can't see. You know what to look. If you don't know you're gonna sit on a log or next to a crocodile or you can see all kinds of things. When you learn what to look for, what to see, the world becomes interesting and full of potential. You know, safety wise, it's dangerous when you're not in control of your things, it's dangerous. You need to keep control. You need to stay alert at all times. The Omo river, it's full of crocodiles.

[A]

Full of crocodiles. So you're not going to go there to wash up.

[B]

The protocol when they wash up is that they're going to have two guys with two rifles, two Kalashnikov looking for you. And while you're going near the river and wash, and if they see a crocodile coming, they will shoot around you to make the crocodile jump so you know where they are. So taking a shower, it's a big adventure. You need two rifles, you need bullets, and you need to be really fast because crocodiles, they eat people, they eat children, they grab people by the face, pull it underwater. So the shower time. It's a big expedition.

[A]

Now we'll get back to how you avoid getting shot with a poisoned arrow by people you just met. Super relatable stuff. But first, let's talk about something equally life threatening. Forgetting to support this podcast. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by LinkedIn. Running a small business means every hire matters. A bad hire can cost you time, money, and momentum. A good hire that can help you grow your business. This gives me flashbacks to a nightmare hire in my previous company that really stunted the business, and even talking about it now makes my blood pressure go up. But the right hire is the exact opposite. Somebody who takes ownership, solves problems, and helps the business grow faster, and when you're small, that kind of impact is massive. But finding great talent isn't easy, especially when you don't have the time or resources to sift through piles of resumes to find the right Fitness. That's why LinkedIn built Hiring Pro, your new hiring partner that screens candidates for you. So instead of sorting through applications, you spend your time talking to candidates who are actually a good fit. With Hiring Pro, you can hire with confidence, knowing you're getting the best talent for your business. In fact, Those hiring with LinkedIn are 24% less likely to need to reopen a role within 12 months compared to the leading competitor. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire get started by posting your job for [e-mail] harbinger terms and conditions apply.

[B]

Early birds always rise to the occasion for summer vacation planning because early gets

[A]

you closer to the action.

[B]

So don't be late. Book your next vacation early on VRBO and save over $120. Rise and shine average savings $141 select homes only

[A]

and Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

[B]

Even if it it means sitting front

[A]

row at a comedy show.

[B]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird.

[A]

What is this, your first date? Oh no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent. Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty. Don't forget about our newsletter. Wee bit Wiser. It is specific, practical, and a less than 2 minute read just about every Wednesday. Not quite. Depends how we're feeling that week. You know what I mean? If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It is a great companion to the show. Jordanharbinger.com News is where you can find it. Now for the rest of my conversation with Guillaume Delude. Don't you start to stink out there. Those guys are used to being out there. They probably have a body biome that sort of resists. I don't know. For me, I work out if I don't shower that day by nighttime. And I'm not a smelly guy, but by nighttime I'm like, oh yeah. So if I was out somewhere for seven days, I would definitely smell worse than any local guy hanging out in the jungle or the desert.

[B]

I remember once when I was in Papua New Guinea. I was in a community called the Hella tribe. It's the wig men. They're all painted.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

And they have artificial wig made out of plants. They're all have plants and colors. And the chief of the village. I've never smelled something stronger in my life. I could know where it was, like at 50 meters.

[A]

Oh, so they also smell?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, okay. I just for some reason thought that they didn't.

[B]

It's just they don't notice it's normal. And so it's like France. It's. I don't know. But you get used to it and you don't smell it anymore. So I think anybody not used to it, it stinks like crazy. But after a couple of days you don't smell yourself, you don't smell others and it becomes normal.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, man. I don't know why. I guess I just assumed if you grow up out there, your body bacteria doesn't smell anymore because it balances out. But I guess you grow up with it and you don't care. Just like sleeping with the goats. They still stink.

[B]

It just normal.

[A]

In one nostril and out the other.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Got it. Wow, man. The arm guards for bathing. Oh, man, you stink. You know what? I don't want to go to the river and get bit in the face by a crocodile. So deal with it, pal.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But they still need to go there every day to get water. So like women go there with their children wrapped and so they need to be careful. The technique is when you don't have a rifle, what you're going to do, you're going to throw rocks where you want to get the water and see if something jumps. If there's a crocodile there, it's going to jump or you're going to see he's going to go up to look. If there's nothing, you can take a chance and so grab the water.

[A]

Crocs are so fast. I was in. This is a long time ago. I was in Costa Rica and we went surfing and there was like a river that goes out into the ocean and it's really muddy. So sometimes these crocodiles from the river will go into the ocean and I think they turn around and go back in the river. They're like lost at that point. But they're like, oh, you don't want to surf past like this point because sometimes crocs go out there from the river and blah, blah, blah. And then so we went and got coconuts because there's guys that sell coconuts on these bridges that go over the river. I was like, oh, man, what's down there? Because it was just grass. And I saw a crocodile on the riverbank. And I was like, oh, there's a crocodile down there. And my friend's like, there's a lot of crocodiles down there. And I said, well, I only see one. And then the guy was like, are you done with your coconut? And I said, yeah. And he goes, watch this. And he threw the shell into the water. The second the millisecond this shell hit the water. The whole river erupted with crocodiles. There was, I don't know, a hundred crocodiles in this river. And they all went to go grab it. One of them got the shell, realized it was just a coconut shell, and slowly relaxed its jaw and then just sank. And I thought to myself, there's a zero percent chance of surviving even being near this river. There's no way. So I can't imagine having to go to a river like that for your water. And you're just like, all right, throw a rock in there and they'll jump. And then you look where they didn't jump and that's where you go get the, like. That's just another level of survival, unpredictability. And just like. It's nightmare fuel.

[B]

It is, it is.

[A]

They were so fast. Dude, what are the rainstorms like out there? Man? It's gotta be crazy. I love a good rainstorm, a good thunderstorm. I feel like you must see some crazy stuff out there because on those plains it's gotta rain a ton. And the storms are probably like insane.

[B]

Depends where you go. It depends the time of the year when it's dry season. Sometimes it's dry season for a while and sometimes for years. For example, in South Africa, they've been in the drought for the last 11, 12 years. So it's not raining much. Normally there are cycles. So sometimes, like it's dry for a couple of years and after it comes back. So it's back and forth like this. Sometimes, like when the rain falls, you can fill up this glass just like this in a few seconds. But you gotta be in the right timing. So it depends where you are. In Africa, it's a bit unpredictable.

[A]

I think it'd be really badass to sit there and watch a lightning thunderstorm with just nothing else around. Have any of the tribes you visited, do they have any of those coming of age rituals that are like crazy intense? You know, you see on Nat Geo, which is where your show should be, probably they make a glove and then they put bullet ants in there, and then you shove your hand in there for as long as you can to prove you're tough.

[B]

Yes. Every traditional community has really important transition rituals to become adults. Most of the time. And most of the time, especially for men, it involves pain. Most of the time. And most of the time, they will have circumcision. Right.

[A]

Yikes.

[B]

It's way worse that you can think. Okay, I've been invited to one to watch that.

[A]

What age are they when they do

[B]

this, when they feel that they want to be a man?

[A]

So like 10, 13?

[B]

Yeah, something like that. Oh, my God. I remember one tribe, the Dasanich tribe, the one walking with the crocodiles in the water. Okay. This tribe, I remember one guy was explaining to me that if you want to become a man, you need to get circumcised, but you need to have a successful circumcision. And I'm like, what do you mean, successful? It's like, when you're going to be cut up, you must not cry, flinch. You must not have any emotion, any facial expression. Otherwise you're weak and it's going to follow you the rest of your life. So you're getting caught with a piece of rock, piece of a knife, and you must not move.

[A]

Flinching is not the right word. I am cringing, but that's horrific.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

First of all, it seems like the person doing it can either make it fast or make it slow or use a sharp knife or use a not so sharp. I mean, even if you went to a hospital with a scalpel and a skilled doctor, if you didn't have anesthetic, you're still gonna flinch. Probably even if you did have anesthetic, you would still flinch. If you're watching somebody circumcise you, just

[B]

looking at someone, you're gonna flinch.

[A]

I'm flinching watching somebody else go through this, probably. That's crazy to me, man.

[B]

Like, rituals and transitions are a big thing at the center of traditional cultures. And I have a good story for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Once I brought seven clients with me in a tribe. Seven clients, because I do psychology workshops and all that stuff. And I said, look, guys, if you want to do something special, we could do something special. Get circumcised, not circumcised, but where it happens. I brought them in Ethiopia and to the crocodile tribes. And what happened is that I explained to them all the rules, communication rules and all that stuff. But there was one girl that is A bit personality disorder. Very tall, very beautiful, very charismatic. Need for attention all the time. And the son of the chief of the village fell in love with her. She likes the attention. So the last day, the last evening, the next morning, we're supposed to go back, but we need to be escorted. We don't know how to go back by foot. We need help from the Chief of the Sun. So we need him. But the guy's in love with one of my girls, you know, one of my clients. And so the last night, he was drunk, he brought some alcohol, like weird alcohol into the village. So the whole village was drunk, which is really bad sign. It's not good because it can go wrong really fast. They all have guns, they all have Kalashnikov. They're all starting to drink. They don't want us to leave the next morning. So my clients, they're not aware of it, but because I have experience, I know that there's maybe a big problem, dangerous situation coming up. So I'm just looking at that, like, how will I get out of there?

[A]

So I have to sell her to the tribe. Easy peasy.

[B]

So it's 8 o' clock and everybody wants to sleep. And so at 8 o', clock, the chief, the prince, he's waking us up, like, hey, wake up. Normally he never talks to us like that because it's very respectful. And now he's drunk. Weird. Now all my clients are like, oh, this is weird. What's going on? And now I'm like, okay, guys, follow my lead. Follow exactly what I'm doing. So you just smile, Just follow. Just say exactly what. Don't show that you're afraid. Just smile, just smile. Just nod. Don't panic. Don't make him feel rejected. Because this guy is not accepting to let go this girl. So if we all reject him, he's going to rebel against us. He will try to control us by force. And it's very dangerous. You don't have no idea what they can do. There are no rules here. We're absolutely alone. There is nobody that knows exactly where we are. And so we go there. He wants us to sit right in the middle of the village, and everybody's afraid. I'm like, don't show that you're afraid. Just say, relax, smile. Just follow my lead. I'm just trying to see what he's gonna do. And he brings a life goat. And I'm like, oh, Jesus, this is the sacrifice time. Everybody's like, what is he gonna do with the goat? Let's just smile. So Just get yourself ready. He's gonna kill the goat, all right? And probably we're gonna have to eat it. And they're like, no, I don't want to eat it. There's no choice. So just nod, smile. People are drunk. It's not good. So they kill the goat. The blood goes everywhere. And so one girl is not feeling bad. So I just tell her, like, just close your eyes. Just pretend to sleep. I'm like, now we must make him accept that he's going to lose the girl and we're going to leave. He's not ready to accept that. So if he feels that we reject him right now, we are dead. We must feel close. Instead of going away from him, we must stay close to him even though we're afraid, even though we don't want to eat anything. You're not hungry at all. Stay close. And so he cooks the goat, and nobody's hungry at all. And he drops some pieces of meat in front of us, and nobody wants to eat. I'm like, you eat. You fake like eating. You're happy. You're happy. Good, good. Just keep eating. Everybody's happy. Make him happy. He's just grieving right now. Just let it. Just relax. Don't drink alcohol. Don't accept alcohol. We need to make the party go down. And so after a couple of hours of fake eating and stuff like that, the mood goes down, everybody gets tired, and we go make a big group hug to the prince. And now it was okay. It was one of the scariest moment because it's not for me. It's the security of everyone.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[B]

So the next morning, he accepted to walk us back. But that's the moment I said, I'm never gonna bring anyone with me anymore in any tribe.

[A]

I don't blame you. I'm surprised you did that. But I guess it was an experiment.

[B]

I knew this tribe for many years. It was the safest tribe that I know. But the problem is that this girl, she broke the rules that I set. It's very specific psychological rule that I explained. There is a distance. There's a way to do it. You cannot give presents. She was giving presents while I was not looking. She corrupted the whole thing. Only one girl. She put us all at risk. Very dangerous.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

So one mind can put a whole village at risk just with one person. So psychology, to me, it's like you have to be extremely precise because the brain is very powerful.

[A]

That's fascinating, man. Some of these tribes, life is viewed differently out there. I mean, what are these called? Like, minji Mingi Babies. Basically, if the top teeth come in first, they will kill the baby. This isn't all the tribes, obviously. I'm just speaking about one. But I was looking at photos of my kids the other day. I was looking at a photo of my son, and I was like, oh, yeah, before he had any teeth. And then it was like, wait, he was probably like one and a half, maybe like two. I can't remember exactly how old he was, but he wasn't like a newborn baby. It's so sad thinking about raising somebody for a year and a half. And then you go, oh, their top teeth came in. I got to kill him. That's just terrible.

[B]

Yeah, humans. Yeah, humans believe in stuff. And once there's a belief inside a human mind, it's very resistant. So in their mind, if the top teeth are coming up like before the other ones, it's like the demon that is living inside the baby, and unfortunately, you need to kill the baby. Humans. Yeah, humans believe in stuff. Today it's funny because. Oh, my God. It's just because they're primitive. We also have beliefs here that don't make any sense. Yeah, of course, in 50 years, we will laugh about that. But right now, we believe in stuff that do not make sense. That does not make sense at all. So humans, they always believe in stuff to create some kind of meaning. The problem is that sometimes it's not connected with reality at all, and you can create a lot of damage. Same as today.

[A]

These Kazakh clans that you visited were fascinating, man. They kidnapped their wives. They also have love marriages, but I found it notable. The kidnap marriages tend to outlast the love marriages. I thought, why can that be? Maybe more traditional people do the kidnapping, so they're less likely to separate because they have more traditional values. It seems a little counterintuitive that a woman that you literally kidnap off the street is less likely to divorce you than somebody who fell in love with you in the first place.

[B]

This is a really hot topic. If you would ask, like, what it's all about to someone with certain ideologies today, they will say that it's because women are victim. Of course, I will never approve kidnapping people. It's just that cultures are complicated, and it's very easy to judge. It's one of the biggest challenge to me when you meet someone is to avoid judgment. It's very hard because we come with values, we come with priorities. We come with a version of what's good and what's bad. And you're, like, inside a house with a couple, and they're just explaining randomly, like, very casually, yeah, I kidnapped her. And she was like, yeah, she kidnapped me. Like, real kidnapping? Like, not real. Yeah, real kidnapping. But it's a crime. No, it's just how it is. I'm so happy. It's so cute. Yeah, but you said you were crying. Yeah, but it's a normal cry when you're getting kidnapped. It's like, how do you want me to make sense of this? And for me, when you meet people that are different from you, you go in different cultures and you have this kind of things in your face. It really forces you to think, like, what's really good and bad? What is your conception of what good and bad? How quick are you to judge? And of course, we all have our preferences. We all have our values. And it's fine. There are cultures that I like better than others because they fit more with me. It's more natural for me. But it doesn't mean that it's wrong to do something different. And this is hard for us to conceive that. Very, very hard.

[A]

Mariana Van Zeller was on this show. She runs that show Trafficked on Nat Geo. I don't know if you've ever seen it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, she did an episode about. I think it was Laos. Their tradition is also they kidnap the women and they'll do it off the street. The problem is there are also now a ton of real kidnappings from Chinese gangs kidnapping the women and selling them in China. And nobody does anything because here, if somebody's getting kidnapped off the street, everybody's stopping. People are gonna intervene because it's not normal. But there. Since there'll be people who go, oh, it's probably a family thing, or maybe he's gonna propose. And it's like, no, this is actually just a real kidnapping.

[B]

That's a bad one.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. So they're trying to figure out how to deal with it. And there's these volunteer organizations that are like, stop kidnapping. If you're gonna do a kidnap marriage, arrange this so it's done, like, in. Out of your home, where there's people that know, don't do it on the street. And if you see a kidnapping on the street, you should intervene, even if you think it's a marriage proposal, just in case it's not. So it's like a crazy scenario in which this is blown up into something that was never meant to be at all.

[B]

Isn't that fascinating? Like, humans make up these things. They Just make that up. Yeah. You know what? We're going to do that. It's going to work. And everybody's like, yeah, I think it's good. And they just do it.

[A]

I'm curious, actually, I should look this up. But it probably starts with a folk tale where some ancient prince kidnapped the princess and blah, blah, blah. And then they're like, you know what? Let's just all do that. Let's just all do that. Because that's how you get a blessed marriage or something. And then it's like for a thousand years, they're kidnapping the bride from another tribe. And then it's all good because everybody's happy afterwards and whatever. Who cares? And then it's like, no. Now we live in a civilization where you don't need to do that, but it's a tradition. But there's a tribe, I think, also in Laos called. In Vietnam, they're called Hmong. It's like a mountain tribe. And during the war, they were on the side of the United States against the communists. So a ton of them moved to Michigan, where I'm from. So a lot of the Asian people are not Chinese, they're Hmong. So they also do this kidnapping thing. And not necessarily a bunch in Michigan, but I had a buddy who is also Hmong, and he was like, hey, if I ever propose to my girlfriend, will you guys help me kidnap her? And I remember Ra running this by our parents, me and the other guys, and they were like, hell, no. You're gonna get arrested and put in prison. We were like, no, it's how they do it. And we were in high school, so it was like, never happened. Too young. But I just thought, man, that's like a bucket list thing. I wanna kidnap your wife for you. As long as we're not gonna get in trouble for it, I'm in, you know, Getaway driver.

[B]

It's surreal. It's like a film.

[A]

Look, if it's really traditional and it's part of thing and everybody's in on it, the mom's there clapping on the porch, fine. But as soon as somebody starts crying, I'm out.

[B]

Crying is like, there's maybe something wrong. You know, Maybe there's a line crossed.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. No, that was scary. You went to Namibia. That dude at the village, that guy was at least a full head and a half taller than you. And you're pretty tall. How tall do you think that guy was?

[B]

Probably 7, 7 5.

[A]

How common is that? Because I would think if you live hunter gatherer, you can't get 5,000 calories a day that easily or whatever. Somebody like that needs to be that big. That was crazy to me.

[B]

It's the tallest guy I've ever met. I think he was so tall. I remember it's a hemba. It's a Hemba village. And I went there and they live in. It's called a kraal. A kraal. It's a round circle made out of wood and there's an inner circle and it's built like a cell. I arrive in front of this kraal and I'm like, oi. And I'm trying to see if there's something, you know, moving. The kraal is really high. The defense is really high. And I see the top of the head, like, moving. I'm like, are they on top of something? And just see the top of his head. He opens up and this guy comes in and is like a giant with a weird haircut. He was so funny. No, it's rare. It was not common. He was the chief of the village, but I don't know how he got this genetic. But it's unusual. They're not as tall as that.

[A]

I was curious. Calories got to be hard to come by.

[B]

Milk is their base of calorie, so that's most of their diet. It's milk.

[A]

I know what I forgot to ask about the smoke baths so that people don't smell bad. That was like women in this tribe doing this, right?

[B]

That's one of the funniest thing I've seen.

[A]

Seriously, I couldn't get over that. I had to pause and rewind because I was like, wait. In my understanding what they're doing, they're basically. They're going to get married, right? The women, and they don't want to smell bad, so they just, like, light a fire and stand over it.

[B]

Yeah. The tall guy, his name is Kwaio. That was his wife. I wanted to talk with his wife. You know, I had a translator with me. I go inside the hut and she's starting the fire and do, like, little powders. And I'm like, what are you doing? And she says, I'm going to take a shower. So I'm like, where? He says, a shower of smoke. A shower of smoke. Okay. And she says, like, it's between my legs. I'm like, okay, you want to shower between your legs? He says, yeah, to be clean. Okay. So you want to clean between your legs sexual parts with smoke? And she says, yeah. I'm like, why? And she says, Obviously, because I want to be clean for my man. Like, yeah, but not to wash with water. And she's like, oh, you're crazy. And it's really crazy to say that. To wash with water doesn't make any sense. It's like water. No, you drink water, you don't wash with water. So it doesn't make any sense. There is no connection between a shower and water. That's so it's like, okay. She sits right in front of this little fire with smoke. It's only little smoke with kind of a spice in it. And she puts a cloth over it so she keeps the smoke between her legs. And she keeps talking to me like she's showering like this. And like, okay. And after Kuaio, the tall guy comes in and suddenly I'm not sure if I'm allowed. Is that okay? Is she taking a shower with me? Is that bad? And I'm like, sorry. Kwaio said, I'm fine. Oh, okay. And after he says, me too, I need to clean up. Oh, okay, you're going to take like a smoke shower. It's a no. I'm going to put fat on me. I'm like, what do you mean fat? He says, look at my necklace. Because they have big necklaces. I have no fat on my necklace anymore. Look, I'm trying to understand what he's talking about. I'm like, okay, you don't have fat on your necklace. And I said, what do you mean? He says, look, I need my fat. And he takes a little bowl of animal fat mixed with rotten milk and it's black and oily and it smells super bad.

[A]

That was my next question.

[B]

He puts his oil like this. And I'm like, okay. He says, you see, it's much better now.

[A]

I'm ready for action.

[B]

Exactly. And I was like, okay, but what happens if you don't do that? He says, everybody's gonna laugh at me. I cannot just get out like this. What will I look like? I didn't notice. You're always beautiful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow, this is so fascinating for me. Like the reality that human beings conceptualize a reality and believe in it. And this is the standard. You have to see that to believe. It's like a smoke shower for lady parts. And I need to wear all my fat.

[A]

Otherwise it's like going out with no pants on.

[B]

It's the same thing.

[A]

The smell in that marital bedroom has gotta be just next level.

[B]

It's quite interesting.

[A]

That tribe had some crazy rituals. There was a coming of age ritual. I meant to talk about this earlier, it included having cow intestines put on her head. But then they removed two of her lower teeth with a rock and a stick hammer. And then they rubbed cow dung in her hair. I felt bad for that girl. She had quite a day.

[B]

Another really interesting story. These younger girls, they wanted to become real women. So in this transition, they need to do a couple of things and switch their hair around. So the hair configuration indicates where you are in the social structure. So when you're a young lady and you have the braids coming like horns at the front, it's because you're still a kid when it flips. And when you change the hair for women, for men is different. Now you are a real woman. They were doing this ritual of just before changing their hair. First we must kill a cow. We must take the skin of the stomach. One of the chief of the village must read the future inside the skin.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You must read the future inside the cow's intestines and skin and blood. And after you take that, you put it on top of their head for one day. After that, they must remove two teeth,

[A]

the bottom two teeth.

[B]

Bottom two teeth. And the way they do that is they call the dentist. But the dentist is just a guy

[A]

with a rock and a stick with

[B]

a rock, and they go like this, and they knock the two teeth. And I was like, okay, we're gonna assist. That's a huge privilege. It's not stage or nothing. It's real. But my cameraman is very sensitive. He's very respectful.

[A]

He might be in the wrong gig if he's sensitive.

[B]

He was like, I cannot film Batman. I'm like, what do you mean? He says, I cannot put my camera in his face. Like, she's getting her teeth broken. We need to film that. It's a unique thing. We're here for that. And we asked and they said it was fine. And he was, like, not filming that. And I had to stop everything and, like, hang on. And his name is also Guillaume. As me, I was like, guillaume, get yourself together, man. Come on. We need to film that. I convinced him, but he says, I cannot get too close because I cannot. It's too offensive. I'm like, okay, like, zoom there.

[A]

Use the zoom, for God's sake. Yeah, she was having quite a day. I mean, you feel bad for these people. That is extremely painful. And then they make her all dirty with the cow intestines and the dung.

[B]

But the funny thing is that the day after they're so happy.

[A]

She's happy.

[B]

They're like, I'm a real woman now. And they're so proud of themselves. And you're like, so everything was fine, Everything you've done yesterday, breaking your face and all that stuff? Yeah. You know, it gets you thinking, do we have transitions here? How do we move on with our lives? What's the social structure or the rituals that push us from one phase of your life to another? We don't really have that. So it's be happy, have success, be successful in your life. But it's not really clear on how to do that in our culture. In other cultures it's clear. And so, yes, it looks like doesn't make sense for us and it's tough and it's suffering, but for them, they're proud. I've never heard someone of my entourage saying like, I wish I'm going to be circumcised with rock. But young men ask for that because they want to be in that club of real men. So it's quite fascinating.

[A]

So what's the next project, man? What are you working on now that you could talk about?

[B]

I'm working with my wife and I would like to show the origin of love, the origin of men, women, relationships. And I would like to understand in the most remote places in the world, how the selection happens, how a man select a woman, how a man select a man, and how they build a relationship together. So the origin of love, the origin of intimate relationship and how the environment influence what kind of partner you choose. So depending on where you live, what are the challenges? Depending on the environment, you're going to need certain skills and it influences who you're going to partner up.

[A]

Hunting skills, kidnapping skills, all kinds of,

[B]

you know what we're talking about. There are all kinds of ways to be in love, to be intimate, to get married and to have a long term relationship. And I want to go back to figure out what's in common for all humans.

[A]

That'll be super interesting, man. I feel like the smoke shower might make another appearance. If you're doing.

[B]

It's going to come back for sure.

[A]

It's going to come back for sure, man. Thanks for coming. I really am so glad we finally got to do this. I would ask where people can see the show and I know people are going to ask me, but I know it's also only in French, so I had to watch it with subtitles, which it's not publicly available. Basically, your wife made me that package to watch. So where can people who Speak French, Watch the show.

[B]

I would say, like, I think it's fun to watch even though you don't speak French. Forget about the language. Just feel the experience, feel the looks. Especially if someone have listened to our interview to get the spirit of what we're going to look for. People will have fun. I think you don't need to understand all the language, so you just go on TV5 and it's all free, it's all online, and there are eight episodes in all different climates. Hunting with eagles and minus 40 and all kinds of things. So TV5, it's called Tribal. It's all free, so it's accessible.

[A]

We'll link to that in the show notes. We may need your help finding that link because I don't think that Bob speaks French. But yeah, that'll be fun because people are going to go like, when I got to see this. And I agree. I think you could totally watch it without speaking French. Honestly, there were plenty of times where I had to go back and read the subtitles. But after this conversation, you have enough background, you could just play it and get it. 90% of what's going on. Now that you know about the smoke shower, you won't be left in the dark, man. Thank you very much.

[B]

Thank you so much for inviting me. It's an honor.

[A]

He's eating baboon hands. In the wild, you're eating Uber eats and still making bad decisions. So what do we take away from all this? Well, aside from the fact that most of us wouldn't last six hours out there without crying, bargaining and trying to venmo someone for help, there's something kind of wild about it. No pun intended. There are communities with no shared language, no shared culture, no technology. And yet somehow connection still happens. Trust gets built, friendships form, people teach you how to survive and in some cases, how to not die immediately from doing something incredibly stupid. Meanwhile, back home, we can't even make eye contact with our neighbors. So maybe the lesson here isn't go wander into the wilderness with a chicken and a dream. Maybe it's be a little more curious, be a little more humble. And maybe don't assume you understand how the world works just because you got wi fi or, I don't know, stay home and listen to podcasts where other people almost die for your entertainment and education. That works too. All things Guillaume du Lude will be in the show notes on the website. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support this show, all on the website as well. @jordanharbinger.com deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Don't forget about six minute networking as well. Over at sixminutenetworking.com I'm ordanharbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn and this show is created in association with podcast one. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Tata Sidlowskis, Ian Baird and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others. The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. In fact, the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. If you know somebody who's interested in, I don't know, wildlife, Nat Geo stuff, uncontacted tribes. These aren't quite uncontacted, but you know what I mean. Share this episode with them. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. Working across teams is tough, but Asana helps you handle it.

[B]

That's because Asana is where humans and AI coordinate work together. AI can spot roadblocks and assign work in a snap so everything and everyone stays on track. That's how work gets handled.

[A]

That's Asana.

[B]

Visit [e-mail] that's asana.com asana@energy trust of

[A]

Oregon we know it isn't easy the tremendous costs of maintaining a home, living in a house with drafty windows, poorly insulated spaces, or equipment that's running well past its prime. But we also know how to help you upgrade your systems, insulate your spaces and replace what is old with new energy efficient solutions. Find cash [e-mail] Energy Trust of Oregon

[B]

More power to you if you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off.

[A]

And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering

[B]

the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time

[A]

left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.