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The Jordan Harbinger Show
1339: Brother's Objection Threatens Family Connection | Feedback Friday
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- [00:02]
A
Yep, he's planning another project. So this Father's Day at Lowe's, tap into free gifts for dad. Get a free select Craftsman Power Tool when you buy a Craftsman V20 charger with 2amp hour and 4amp hour batteries. Plus get a free Dewalt power tool when you buy a select 20 volt max XR 4amp hour battery kit. Dad knows our best lineup is here at Lowe's valid through 714 while supplies last selection varies by location. This episode is sponsored in part by AT&T. You know why I love Summer? All those plans we made. They finally make it out of the group chat. Seems like there's more time to fit everyone in whatever you've got in store this summer, capturing those moments is a must. That's why I love the iPhone 17 Pro I picked up from ATT. Its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone in group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone. No awkward cropping or asking strangers to take it. Just the perfect group selfie every time. And and AT and T makes sharing those moments with everyone easy because you gotta share the pic or it didn't happen right Right now at any at&t ask how you can get the iPhone 17 Pro on them with eligible trade in requires Eligible plan terms and restrictions apply. Subject to change. Visit att.comiphone or visit an AT and T store for details. This episode is brought to you by Lufthansa. Lufthansa Allegres is an innovative, elevated travel experience across all classes, focusing on each person with their own individual and situational needs. Look forward to your own feel good moment above the clouds. Visit lufthansa.com and search for Allegris to learn more. Lufthansa Allegris All It Takes is a yes. Welcome to Feedback Friday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with Feedback Friday producer. My guy who can't stop flying, which is fine as long as he's on WI Fi. That kind of rhymes. Gabriel Mizrahi on the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. War correspondents, neuroscientists, drug traffickers, Russian spies. This week we had Nicole Sachs, therapist and author of Mind you'd body on the psychological basis of chronic pain and pain relief. So if you liked our previous episode on Pain with Dr. Rachel Zoffness, I think you're going to like this one as well. We also did a skeptical Sunday last Sunday on dialysis. On Fridays though, we share stories, take listener letters, offer advice, play obnoxious soundbites, and dip our toot footsies into the frigid waters of your most chilling life conundrum. But today, no footsies. Let's dive right in. Gabe, what's the first thing out of the mailbag?
- [02:40]
B
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I'm a 51 year old woman, 25 years sober, with a job I love and a happy family. My brother Paul is two years older and has spent most of his life battling depression and substance abuse. Our upbringing was unconventional to say the least. Our parents were in a religious cult in Africa before moving us to a commune in Indiana. They divorced when we were young and our father Steve married Joan. Steve and Joan have been together for 40 years.
- [03:08]
A
Okay, what a childhood. A religious cult in Africa.
- [03:12]
B
Okay, so wild. And then you end up in Bloomington, down the street from what GE is headquartered there. That is wild.
- [03:19]
A
Yeah, that's kind of my neck of the woods. Like, what a transition that must have been. This family's got some stories.
- [03:25]
B
While my relationship with my father and stepmother is currently stable and boundaried, Paul has recently gone scorched earth. He is now no contact with them and is demanding that I keep my two young children away from them as well. The reason is a dark piece of family history that is not in dispute. When Paul was 12, Steve and Joan introduced him to marijuana and hardcore pornography. Their defense? They claim he, quote unquote, enjoyed it and remind us that they, quote, didn't know Jesus at the time.
- [03:56]
A
So this is awful. This is abuse, first of all, and I'm sorry to hear this. Man, your poor brother.
- [04:02]
B
What an odd thing to say. We didn't know better. We hadn't gotten right with God yet. But also, you enjoyed it, so it wasn't that bad.
- [04:08]
A
Good point. It's not exactly an apology, is it? And also, this is unhinged. I don't really know if you need to. Look, y' all know I'm not religious, but I don't think you really need to know Jesus to understand that giving a child marijuana and playing hardcore XXX Betamax tapes for him is wrong.
- [04:24]
B
But okay, wow, Betamax, what a throwback. But yeah, I think I can imagine why this guy developed an addiction. This is so Sad. So she goes on. Paul is deeply traumatized. When he's intoxicated, he lashes out at me, claiming that by allowing my kids to see our parents, I am disregarding his pain.
- [04:42]
A
Mmm, that's tough.
- [04:43]
B
But here's the thing. My children are adopted, and I feel strongly that they deserve a connection to their grandparents and a sense of extended family. Steve and Joan are in their 80s now, and they are never left alone with my children. I've also worked hard to reach a place of peace with my father, where I no longer, longer seek his approval. Joan has softened significantly after two strokes and actually looks to me for advice. Meanwhile, Paul refuses to let me discuss any of this with our parents, yet he uses it as a weapon against me when he's spiraling. I now find myself in an impossible spot. If I heard about a stranger doing this to a child, I would label them an abuser and run. But these are my aging parents, and my experience with them, while difficult, was never as predatory as my brother's. How do I honor my brother's very real trauma without blowing up my own family's stability? Am I being complicit by maintaining pleasantries with people who crossed such a horrific line? Signed. Looking for your two cents about whether I'm being dense or causing offense in mending this tricky fence when my desire to put this in the past tense seems to come at my brother's expense.
- [05:51]
A
Tough situation. Fascinating question. So, first of all, I'm so very sorry that you and your brother went through all this. This was not an easy childhood, to put it mildly. You guys have been through a lot. Between the cult and being uprooted and the substances and God knows what else. And my heart goes out to you guys. On the bright side, it sounds like you've done a ton of work in your life. You've been sober for 25 years. You have a great career. You have a happy family. That's amazing, and you should be really proud of that. Although I'm sure that it also makes it even harder to then watch your brother struggling all these years later. And maybe it's hard for him, too. Whatever growth and healing you've found in the last couple decades, that seems to have eluded him, and that's really too bad. It sounds like he's in a lot of pain, and to be fair, it actually sounds like he got it worse in some ways. Obviously, he needs to find a better way to take care of himself. But I also really feel for a guy whose parents did such a number on him, it's really awful. But whether that should inform whether you let your kids have a relationship with these people, that's a really interesting question, Gabe. This is complicated.
- [06:52]
B
So complicated. Tell me about it.
- [06:55]
A
What her parents did is horrifying. It's beyond horrifying. And to your point a moment ago, what troubles me about it isn't just that they did these things, but that based on what she shared with us, they haven't even truly apologized for it, and they haven't done everything possible to repair things with their son. They're basically going, well, we weren't religious yet, so you can't blame us. And also, you liked it. I mean, that's a kooky, unhinged thing to say, like I said before. So, you know, maybe they're saying, get over it, kind of. But then her parents do seem to have changed over the years. They're old now. They've mellowed. They relate to her differently now. They didn't do to her what they did to her brother. I don't know. Tough one.
- [07:31]
B
And she never leaves her kids alone with them.
- [07:33]
A
So that's a crucial fact. And it's interesting, and it puts me at ease somewhat, but. Because there's no opportunity for something bad to happen.
- [07:39]
B
Right, but I see where you're going with this, because if these parents have truly changed, then why doesn't she feel comfortable leaving her children alone with them?
- [07:46]
A
Yes, exactly. Probably because she knows she couldn't live with herself if something ever did happen. And it's also. That's in the back of her head. But I'm not sure what that says about them. There's just so much ambiguity here.
- [07:57]
B
What's most complicated about this, to me, is that she and her brother had very, very different experiences growing up. And in a way, they're each advocating for their version of their parents, their version of their childhood.
- [08:08]
A
Yes. So it's like, whose version takes precedence?
- [08:11]
B
Right. Whose pain matters more? Everyone agrees that the parents did some truly awful things, but they didn't do those things to her. And she has a very different relationship with them now, as you're saying so. But then her brother seems to experience all of that. It's not just painful, it's like a betrayal to him. What did she say? She's. Or he says that she's disregarding his pain.
- [08:28]
A
Yeah. And I also think the fact that he says this stuff when he's drunk or when he's high is relevant because he's probably. Well, he's disinhibited and he says Stuff that he might not say when he's sober, and it might be when he's in a lot of pain. I assume he drinks or uses when he's hurting.
- [08:42]
B
Right.
- [08:42]
A
That's when he wants to feel understood the most.
- [08:44]
B
Yeah. This is really hard, man. I have to say, I really do understand both of their perspectives to a degree.
- [08:51]
A
Same. I truly don't know who's right here. And Gabe, here's. Here's a thought, right? It's. If it were like, the neighbor had done this to the kid, and she's like, but the neighbors babysit my kids. Sometimes we would just be like, cut them off. What are you doing? But it's her parents, right? That's. But on the other hand, that doesn't make them less dangerous, potentially, because they've already shown that they have horrendous judgment and are dangerous for kids to be around.
- [09:16]
B
But then can people change? Can they evolve? They've had medical problems. They've softened. It's. This, to your point, a lot of ambiguity. Look, our friend has some very fair reasons for wanting her kids to have a relationship with her grandparents. She's also created a very careful relationship with them, which to me, does help legitimize that choice. But then her brother has some very fair reasons to say, these people are not good people. Look, they've done terrible things.
- [09:39]
A
Yeah.
- [09:39]
B
Where I think he might be wrong, though, is in that final leap that she is disregarding his pain by bringing her kids around them. It's an interesting question. What one has to do with the other. Like, does that conclusion actually make sense?
- [09:53]
A
Well, especially because she's literally saying, hey, I know what our parents did to you, and it was totally wrong. She's not denying what happened. She's not saying, hey, get over it, man. She's saying, what they did to you was real and it was wrong. And I have a different relationship with them, and I see some changes in them that give me comfort that they can't hurt my kids, I guess. But I'm with you. I'm also putting myself in this guy's shoes. And if my parents did this stuff to me and my sibling was like, I. Well, I still want to have a relationship with them because I didn't get abused. It's like, I don't know, man. I really don't know. I want to believe that I'd be able to see things from both perspectives and accept that my brother or my sister can have a different relationship with my parents. But if I'm being honest, that might be really hard for me to watch. Like, oh, I guess they just loved you enough not to up your whole life.
- [10:37]
B
Oh, man.
- [10:37]
A
You know what I mean?
- [10:38]
B
Yeah.
- [10:38]
A
That's how I would feel.
- [10:39]
B
I hear that. I really do. She didn't mention whether she's gone to her brother and said these things in the way that you just said them. I'm sorry about what they did to you. I understand why you're in so much pain. I want to support you however I can. And my kids and I have a different relationship with our parents, so I want to kind of make room for both. I don't know if she's really said that in those words. I want to believe she has based on her letter. But if she has said some version of that, and if she means it, of course, and he still holds this view, then to me, this becomes even more unfair.
- [11:07]
A
Agreed. And I think she's allowed to respectfully disregard what he's saying and maintain this relationship.
- [11:12]
B
But I also can't help but wonder if his anger and his need to be validated in this way, if those are also symptoms of not having addressed his trauma and his addiction. Meaning if he were sober, if he were, say, in therapy, if he were really addressing these wounds, would he still hold this view?
- [11:29]
A
That is a good point. It's not just about calling her and saying intense things because he's drunk. It's about what he's looking for from her because he's in so much pain.
- [11:37]
B
Exactly. If he weren't self medicating, if he were talking to somebody, he might not need his sister to validate his pain in the same way.
- [11:44]
A
Yeah. He would also probably be better able to take it in when she does validate his pain.
- [11:48]
B
Good point. And so this whole you're disregarding my pain thing, it might actually be a kind of projection, if you think about it. Or at least it's a need that he needs to meet himself. Because by continuing to use, by not addressing his depression, by telling her that she cannot discuss any of this with her parents, which, by the way, is also not his place to tell her she can talk to her parents about whatever she wants. In my opinion, there is a case to be made that his sister is not the one disregarding his pain. He is.
- [12:14]
A
Also, even if your brother did have a point, that doesn't mean he's allowed to use it as a weapon against you if that's in fact what he's doing. It's one thing to say calmly and respectfully, hey, I'm still in a lot of pain. And when you bring the kids around our parents, that hurts me. And I feel like you don't take what I've been through seriously. It's a completely different thing to call you five times in a row at 1:30 at night, slurring words and leaving voicemails like you're disregarding my pain. Don't talk to mom and dad about any of this. You know that's different.
- [12:40]
B
Could not agree more. But to your point, that's a conversation he probably can't have until he seeks
- [12:45]
A
help, which he clearly needs to do.
- [12:47]
B
Which he clearly needs to do, but which she cannot make him do.
- [12:50]
A
So my feeling is I think it's fair for you to bring your kids around your parents with these boundaries in place. But I would keep a close eye on their behavior and also your own patterns with them, like this tendency to seek your father's approval and keep checking in with yourself about whether this relationship is truly healthy and safe emotionally, physically, for you and especially for your kids. I don't believe you're complicit in your parents abuse or any potential future abuse. I don't think that's likely or even possible at this point. Based on what you've shared, I think you can have empathy for your brother, you can validate his experience, and you can go a different way from him. You are different people with different histories, different psychologies, different lenses, and therefore you have different needs. To put it very bluntly, you are not responsible for regulating your brother's mood or protecting him from difficult feelings. Those feelings are real and they are his feelings. And that to me, is how you honor his trauma without disrupting your family's stability. But listen, if you get more concerning data about your parents, I would keep an eye on this need for stability and just make sure that you're staying in their lives because there's actually a meaningful relationship to be had and not just because you're afraid of conflict with them or something like that. And I'm sorry you're in this position. I know it's hard, but it's also an opportunity to clarify a number of relationships. And that's a good thing. Sending you and the kids a big hug and wishing you all the best. You know what? You can show a 12 year old the pornographically good deals on the fine products and services that support this show, now available on Betamax. We'll be right back. This episode is also sponsored in part by BetterHelp. Summer's a funny time because it can make life feel really full in the best way and also in the how the heck are we supposed to do all this kind of way. Maybe your calendar's packed with travel, work, deadlines, weddings, family visits, trying to see friends, trying to actually relax, and somehow feeling guilty that you're not making the most of the season. For us, it's been especially chaotic. There's school events, getting ready to be away for a month on a long family trip, packing, schedules, work logistics. We're definitely losing our minds a little bit. And that's why summer can be a really good time to check in with somebody who is trained to help. Not because anything has to be wrong, but because life moves fast. Therapy can help you zoom out, figure out what actually matters and make choices that line up with the life that you want to be living. Because you only get one of these. And the goal isn't to have a perfect summer. It's to build a life where you feel more present, more grounded, and more connected to what matters. BetterHelp has over 30,000 fully licensed therapists in the US has served over 6 million people globally, and helps match you with a therapist through a short questionnaire. If it's not the right fit, you can switch it anytime. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer, find support in therapy, sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com Jordan that's betterhelp.com Jordan. This episode is brought to you in part by Lufthansa. When people talk about travel, they usually focus on the destination, the hotel, the restaurants, all the stuff that happens after you land. But the flight is part of the experience too. Just like a great hotel can shape an entire trip, so can a great flight. That's exactly what Lufthansa Allegris is built around. On a long haul route, comfort matters more than people realize. If you're cramped, tired and can't relax, you feel it the second you land. But when a flight is comfortable, you can actually stretch out, rest, work, or just enjoy the ride. It changes the whole trip. I was thinking about that on my recent Intercontinental Lufthansa flight. I got so comfortable I honestly didn't want the flight to end, which is not something you say very often after a long international trip. That's why Lufthansa Allegris stands out. It's built around the idea that people travel differently. Lufthansa Allegris Business class has five seat options. You've got the suite, the privacy seat and the extra long bed, the extra space seat and the classic seat. So you can choose what works for you. And that's what I like most. It feels elevated, but still practical. More privacy, more comfort, more thoughtful design for the way people actually travel. Now visit lufthansa.com and search for Allegris to learn more. Lufthansa Allegris all it takes is a yes. Limited availability on select routes. More routes coming soon. Thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for supporting our sponsors, which are all searchable and clickable on the website@jordanharbinger.com deals please do consider supporting those who support the show. Now back to Feedback Friday. Okay, next up.
- [16:50]
B
Dear Jordan and Gabe, I was doing that thing where I flip through contacts I haven't connected with in a while and send out messages to stay in touch. You may have heard of it. Five Minute Networking, I think.
- [17:01]
A
Yes, that's some slam dunk branding right there. I should come up with something like this for myself and then bang on about it constantly on the show.
- [17:08]
B
It's actually been a great tool and I enjoy reconnecting with people I haven't seen in a while.
- [17:13]
A
Love to hear that.
- [17:13]
B
Recently, one of my co workers mentioned that a former employee of ours got a new job, so I sent her a LinkedIn message of congratulations. For context, our former COO fired her and it was my job to inform her, produce the final paycheck, and escort her out of the building. Oh.
- [17:31]
A
Oof. Not what I had in mind when I said dig the well before you get thirsty. That's.
- [17:37]
B
I don't think anyone involved in that situation thought that was digging the well.
- [17:40]
A
But no, probably not. Like, hey, I just want to develop this relationship with you by asking you to take your crap, put it in a box, and give me your security pass.
- [17:48]
B
Her response was unfortunate. She replied by saying, why are you in my messages? Respectfully, please, all the way off.
- [17:58]
A
Oh, dang. Well, that hits. That hits different on LinkedIn.
- [18:01]
B
It sure does. Yeah, that white background just really makes the F bombs pop.
- [18:05]
A
Yes. It's like hearing somebody blast heavy metal at an old age home or something like that, like assisted living, and they're just blaring Iron Maiden. You're like, oh, that just. That's happening here. Okay.
- [18:15]
B
I promptly ignored her message and blocked her from my account. I could see how I might not be her favorite person, but it wasn't my decision to terminate her employment after a year, and on the heels of her good news, I thought a friendly congratulations would be appropriate. Interestingly, her title on LinkedIn includes human with resources and badass HR lady.
- [18:38]
A
I get the need to self brand on LinkedIn. I mean, I guess we all do it, but that's so cringe and annoying somehow.
- [18:44]
B
I don't know, maybe part of being a badass HR lady is telling the guy who was forced to escort you out of the building to go f ck Ems, I don't understand.
- [18:52]
A
Or maybe being a human with resources is handling these conversations with just a little more tact and a professionalism. I'm just saying, the thing about LinkedIn is it's supposed to be professional. So you're not an anonymous Instagram commenter who's saying like, yeah, this is stupid. Like gfy, your name is attached to it, your resume's on there. I don't know, people are less crazy on there.
- [19:14]
B
You'd expect people to act, right? Because it's LinkedIn. But then again, I'm thinking didn't. Like four years ago, we get a letter from a woman who like shot or shot with a guy on LinkedIn because she was really into men from West Point or something.
- [19:26]
A
Yeah, I guess. Hey, look, it's a great way to screen in certain types of professionals, if that's what you're after. It's just a. It's a choice.
- [19:33]
B
I think a lot more questionable stuff happens on LinkedIn than we think, probably. So he goes on, am I the asshole here or do I just need to blow off this badass HR bitch and continue to reach out to my contacts who don't have a stick up their assigned, wondering if I deserve grace or if giving chase created a disgrace. After this embrace, which came from a good place, pretty much blew up in my face.
- [19:56]
A
So I'll start with a little anecdote from my own life. When I left my previous company, they were really upset about it, right? I mean, it was this like huge meltdown, disagreement. And people who've been following the show for a while know all about that. They wanted to turn the screws on me and Jen as much as possible. So they did all this stuff like trying to seize company property where they sent someone up from LA who was. Had a legal background and was like, I need your watches. Like the Apple watches, they were personal items and we probably could have fought it, but they were old Apple watches and an imac that I used to produce the show and camera stuff that was outdated. Like they basically went through all these purchases of tech and they were like, you have to give this all back. And it was all this old tech gear and it was useless to them. Like the guy had to sell it. He Told me later that he had to sell it and it was just pennies on the dollar. You know, you're selling stuff on Facebook, Marketplace, to get 10 bucks for an Apple Watch that's three years old.
- [20:47]
B
They were just trying to get company property back.
- [20:48]
A
Yeah, it was like they were going after items which even my lawyer was like, I don't think they can take a watch you've been wearing for three years. But if the company bought it and you don't care about it, giving it back is like, the judge will look at that and go, well, they hyper complied with your nonsense. So I was like, okay, cool. And it didn't really matter that much. So this guy comes up and he's taking our stuff, and he's like, yeah, I'm sorry. This is, like, pretty embarrassing for you. And I was like, I'm actually fine. It's more embarrassing for you. And he was kind of smug about it. And I was thinking, you're the dude who drove eight hours to come get stuff that wasn't even worth the price of gas, pal. Your time is valued at $0. But okay. But I was polite and I was like, whatever, you know, you're doing a job. You don't know all the ins and outs. Three months later, he calls me, and I was like, what? You know, hello, how are you?
- [21:35]
B
I can see you're.
- [21:36]
A
I was just thinking, like, I don't have anything else, so I would love to hear what you have to say. And he goes, yeah, so they canned me and they're not paying me, and they're. They seized my computer. And I was like, oh. And I said candidly, I thought this call would come maybe in a year, but, wow, that happened fast. And he's like, yeah. So I just wanted to commiserate a little, invent a little and tell you that I'm sorry because, you know, I was convinced that, you know, this, that, and the other thing. And I was like, of course you were. That's why you drove eight hours to get $80 worth of stuff, dude. And he was just, like, deeply apologetic. And now that he had gotten screwed, and I was just like, all right, whatever. It doesn't matter. And when I went to la, I took him to lunch, and I got the insight on the story, and I just didn't really care. The point of the story is this woman says, you know, all the way off. Why? Because he's the last guy you saw on your way out of the building. You might as well have just said off to the parking attendant, what do you get out of that? So I obviously find this ridiculous. You're just. You're like a child aiming your anger at somebody who's easy to target instead of the actual. The person who's actually responsible for anything that you might have gone through. I want to start by congratulating you on taking your relationships seriously. I guess that whole five minute networking thing you found sounds like the real deal. Whoever came up with that sounds like a pretty smart guy. It usually takes me at least one minute longer to do my networking, but I guess, I don't know, could just be me.
- [23:02]
B
So pick it up, Jordan.
- [23:03]
A
Come on. Six Minute networking it is. So, I'm sorry you had to receive this message from this woman. I'm sure it was a little jarring. And to be fair to her or whatever, she's clearly still hurt about being fired from your company. That was not your fault. But she obviously associates it with you, and I think that's annoying and ridiculous. But again, what are you going to do? And who knows? Maybe the way you handled that final interaction, maybe it did leave a bad taste in her mouth. I think that would be a difficult interaction for anyone. Maybe she'd always be angry at you, but maybe something you did or said made it even harder. I'm speculating, of course, just making room for all the possibilities. So, no, I don't think you're the asshole here. My feeling is that she took an opportunity to even the scales a tiny bit in her own head in an incredibly petty and ultimately totally pointless way, which actually kind of makes her the asshole. But if you wanted to avoid this response, you could have sent her a different note. Something like, hey, Linda, I realize this message is a little unconventional after how things went down, but I just wanted to congratulate you on your new job. I imagine the transition out of our company was difficult. I hope I was able to treat you kindly and professionally in a tough situation. But I'm very happy to see that you've landed on your feet and I wish you the best.
- [24:11]
B
Very nice. I like that note.
- [24:13]
A
That would have probably gone a long way. And then if she still reacted poorly, you'd know that she's just a dick. So whatever.
- [24:18]
B
Great advice. Yeah, I completely agree with you. But I want to build on your theory from a moment ago, Jordan. And now I'm going to speculate a little bit and say, was reaching out to this woman without acknowledging the awkwardness of their last interaction and kind of trying to turn over a new leaf in the way that you just pitched Was that maybe a little tone deaf on his part?
- [24:36]
A
I'm afraid it was, yeah, probably.
- [24:37]
B
If it was, that might be a quality he wants to keep an eye on because it might have also played a role that day he escorted her out. You know, like maybe he didn't read her very well or behave as graciously as he could have and maybe that's why she responded this way. To be clear, I also find this response super weird and unprofessional and completely unnecessary. Like she also missed out on an opportunity to try things in a new way with him and to meet his kindness with some grace of her own. And then they could have had a whole new chapter to their relationship. So I do not think it was appropriate. But it might also contain some good feedback for him, which is interesting.
- [25:12]
A
Good point. Both can be true. But in general, yes, you should continue to pursue relationships with people who are kind and generous and cool. Absolutely. I don't know if this woman has a stick up her butt, as you put it, or if she's understandably angry about how this all went down or something else. But it's important to respect these signals. Follow the positive ones to the people who reciprocate your interest, who share your values. But hey, maybe Linda's also helping you get clear on a new one for you. Kindness, compassion, tact. Maybe that's why you needed to be told to all the way off by her. I don't know. But hey, keep up the relationship building. I love to hear it. Make sure it never exceeds five minutes. That'd just be a huge waste of time. Good luck and you can find our networking course for free@sixminutenetworking.com. five minute networking was already taken and now we know why. By the way, you can reach us Friday@jordanharbinger.com Please keep your emails concise. Try to use descriptive subject lines. That makes our job a whole lot easier. If you're chafing at a claustrophobic relationship with a narcissistic mom, you're wrestling with a ton of doubt and uncertainty after radically cleaning up your life. Or you're struggling to talk to your kids about how to stay safe in a predatory spiritual community. Whatever's got you staying up at night lately, hit us up Friday@jordanharbinger.com we're here to help and we keep every email anonymous. Alright, and now a word from our sponsors because unfortunately my bills refuse to f even part of the way off. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Mint Mobile Most of us don't even think about our wireless bill anymore. It just shows up every month. We wince, we pay it, we move on. Because what are we going to do? Not have a phone? Well, Mint Mobile has a better option. Premium wireless. For just 15 bucks a month, you get unlimited talk, text and data, fast reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network, and an award winning care team. And look, I get it. When you hear 15 bucks a month, your brain immediately goes, okay, what's the catch? But from firsthand experience, trying Mint, there is not one. No gimmicks, no gotchas. You can bring your current phone, keep your current number, choose from 3, 6 or 12 month plans. You can stop getting surprised by a monthly bill that somehow always feels higher than it should. Since trying Mint, I've really appreciated not feeling hosed by my wireless bill every month. Mint mobile is 15 bucks a month. That's it. There's no catch.
- [27:14]
C
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- [27:40]
A
This episode of the Jordan Harbinger show is brought to you by booking.com look, if you got a vacation rental and you want to grow that business, you gotta make sure people can actually find you. That's where booking.com comes in. It's one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world, and since 2010, they've helped more than 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. That's an enormous number of people looking for places like yours. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right? Once you list, your property gets in front of a huge global audience of travelers, which means more visibility, more bookings, and more chances to build real momentum with your rental business. And the barrier to entry is low. Here you can register your property in as little as 15 minutes. And nearly half of hosts get their first booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen, get booked on booking.com by the way, if you haven't signed up yet, come check out the newsletter We Bit Wiser. It is a bite sized gem from a past episode from us to you, delivered to your inbox on most Wednesdays. If you want to keep up with the wisdom in the episodes and apply it to your life, I invite you to come check it out. It's like a two minute read or less every Wednesday almost. You can sign up@jordan harbinger.com news okay, next up.
- [29:04]
B
Hey, Gordon and Jabe. My ex wife and I have been divorced now for three years. She left me for a pizza driver she works with because he told her a funny joke.
- [29:16]
A
Okay, I'm sorry to hear that. That made me laugh instinctually. Obviously you're the funny one. A pizza guy she works with. Mr. Steal Yo Girl over here. I mean, that must have just been a hell of a joke.
- [29:28]
B
A knock knock joke, no doubt.
- [29:29]
A
Yeah, well, because they don't for pizza. Yeah, got it.
- [29:33]
B
I want to apologize for how dumb that joke was.
- [29:36]
A
Yeah, no, it's nice not to be the only one cracking dad jokes on this show.
- [29:40]
B
So he goes on. Obviously the joke is not why she left.
- [29:43]
A
Well, yeah, I assume that it was probably the icing on the cake.
- [29:47]
B
The topping on the pizza.
- [29:48]
A
Yeah, the dude threw some pineapple on the pepperoni of his slow rol deduction and that was that.
- [29:54]
B
However, it does paint a picture of how absent I was while sitting right next to her every night.
- [29:59]
A
Okay, now we're pulling it together. So this just got serious. I do appreciate the honesty.
- [30:03]
B
She had cheated on me multiple times before we got married. Okay, I should not have married her.
- [30:09]
A
No.
- [30:09]
B
I had convinced myself for some reason that given time, she would feel bad for what she had done and she would admit to me what I already knew, for which I had already forgiven her, and we could just move on.
- [30:20]
A
Fascinating. So both that you had that idea and that you had already forgiven her
- [30:25]
B
Anyway, so he forgave her before she even told him what she didn't know he knew. Yeah. That is fascinating.
- [30:31]
A
Something tells me he's grown up a lot in the last few years because that's a painful myth to confront.
- [30:36]
B
She, of course, never admitted while we were married to the cheating that she had done.
- [30:40]
A
Oh, so she waited till after when it probably didn't even matter anymore. Like, I'm leaving you. By the way, I cheated on you a bunch. I feel like I've seen that in movies before.
- [30:47]
B
It does not excuse me being a quiet and dismissive husband, which is the choice that I had made.
- [30:53]
A
I hear that again. Kudos to you for owning this.
- [30:55]
B
We had become very active in our church. I was making more money than I ever had. We were working on buying a house. I tricked myself into thinking that checking off boxes to help us keep up with the Joneses was leading to a long and happy life together.
- [31:09]
A
Lot of ideas about how things are supposed to go.
- [31:12]
B
But one day when I was changing out the heater core on my BMW, which was a 12 hour job for me and my best friend, I got a text message, like one you would get in middle school, saying, I don't want to be with you anymore. I have fallen in love with someone else and I will be staying at my mother's.
- [31:28]
A
Brutal. That is a brutal text to receive.
- [31:30]
B
Yeah, Guess he wasn't the only one getting his heater core changed out.
- [31:34]
A
Savage. Gabe, maybe you don't kick our friend here while he's down.
- [31:37]
B
I'm sorry, dude. It's been three years. Are we allowed to have a little bit of a laugh about this?
- [31:42]
A
I'm hoping in that case he wasn't the only one doing a 12 hour job.
- [31:47]
B
Bruh.
- [31:48]
A
Sorry. I mean, it was right there. If you're going to do it, I'm going to do it.
- [31:50]
B
I'm a little confused. Confused about this middle school text thing. I don't know about you. I was not getting texts in middle school saying, I don't want to be with you anymore. I have fallen in love with someone else and I will be staying at my mother's.
- [32:00]
A
Not.
- [32:01]
B
When I was in seventh grade.
- [32:02]
A
You didn't have any game, obviously.
- [32:03]
B
Clearly.
- [32:04]
A
Yeah. You didn't have a wife when you were 12. That awkward phase must have hit you pretty hard. I suppose you've stepped your game up since seventh grade for sure.
- [32:10]
B
Yeah, the awkward phase hit me hard, so that might have something to do with it. I'm just confused. The only thing middle school about that text is I will be staying at my mother's. Because we all lived with our mothers, right?
- [32:20]
A
Literally, we just went from the couch to the bedroom. So he must mean that it was immature of her to text him that instead of telling him to his face because they were married.
- [32:29]
B
Yeah.
- [32:29]
A
Imagine you get broken up. A breakup text for your marriage. It's a little Tough way to break
- [32:34]
B
the news to your spouse.
- [32:36]
A
Yeah, especially when it's, I'm falling in love with someone else, I'm leaving you for another pizza delivery driver.
- [32:41]
B
Guys, I tried for a year to get her to stop seeing her new boyfriend and to come home. Home. She wouldn't do it. She would pretend to, but she would always keep talking to him. Until one evening I walked out of the kitchen when she came over for dinner and saw her trying to hide a text message from him.
- [32:57]
A
This is so painful, man.
- [32:58]
B
For a year, in that moment, it was like I felt God's hand on my shoulder saying, you've done enough.
- [33:05]
A
Might have been God. Might have been the fact that your wife was flagrantly getting her heating core changed out and lying to your face.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah, well, great spirit comes in many forms, Jordan.
- [33:16]
A
Yeah, I guess so. Sometimes great spirit comes in the form of a T mobile bill for $250 with a bunch of texts to a number you don't recognize.
- [33:23]
B
So I let my marriage go, lost my apartment and moved in with the rents.
- [33:28]
A
I'm sorry, dude. That must have been so hard. But obviously this needed to happen.
- [33:32]
B
Fast forward to January 2025. I had been taking small doses of fun mushrooms to try and help with my depression.
- [33:40]
A
Fun mushrooms? Never heard anybody call them that. I mean, magic mushrooms. He means.
- [33:44]
B
Yeah, dude's not with baby Bellas.
- [33:46]
A
Yeah, I hear baby Bellas don't do much for the depression.
- [33:49]
B
No, that's a Portobello job. That's what I hear.
- [33:51]
A
Okay, so he's partaking in the sacred fungus, doing his own clinical trial on shiitakes.
- [33:56]
B
That's right. I had heard things about mushrooms through podcasts, so when my neighbor offered me some, I thought I'd give it a try. Couldn't hurt. One day I got some from my neighbor, the same amount he always gave me, and I thought, I'm just going to eat all of these. And that was extremely awesome. I don't really know what else I could say, except if you know, you know.
- [34:16]
A
Indeed.
- [34:17]
B
We know.
- [34:18]
A
We know.
- [34:19]
B
I completely blacked out my room and put on noise canceling headphones and just laid in the dark silence and saw and heard so much.
- [34:28]
A
Oh, nice, Gabe. Sound familiar?
- [34:30]
B
Oh, dude, you're bringing this up now?
- [34:32]
A
I mean, I think I have to. It's like I'm reliving that evening.
- [34:36]
B
Oh, boy. Okay, what Jordan's referring to. I can't believe we're about to talk about this.
- [34:40]
A
Me neither. This is deep lore right here.
- [34:42]
B
This is the deepest of lore. Okay? So one night, I must have been 23, 24, Jordan came over to my mom's house. I was still living there at the time. It was right around the time I left consulting. So I was kind of like, in this transition period. And he, my sister, and I took mushrooms, and we had ourselves quite a
- [35:03]
A
night, quite a lot. Yeah. Truly one of the funnest nights of my life. Me, Gabe, Gabe's sister, and Gabe's mom, she didn't take any, but she wanted to, but she was just chilling with us. Just, like, having the time of our lives.
- [35:16]
B
I need to explain how funny this was. So my mom's apartment, we moved there when I was in high school, so it was kind of one of my childhood homes. Is, like, a very unique place. Like, my mom loves collecting art and weird statues. It's kind of like an eccentric museum kind of house. And there's a balcony with a nice view. Jordan brings over the mushrooms. This is my first time with them. They kick in. They hit me first out of anybody, and they hit me hard. And I just start walking around my mom's house, and I'm, like, seeing the home I grew up in for the Almost, like, for the first time. And I'm, like, marveling at all of these things on the walls and all these weird tchotchkes and all this stuff my mom has. I remember at one point, I take Jordan into my mom's bedroom to the balcony, and I'm like, dude, look at this view. And Jordan, you were like, huh? Yeah. I'm like, la, please enjoy. Yeah. You're like, I've seen it.
- [36:07]
A
I live here. I've been here many times. But yes. Cool.
- [36:10]
B
And then I was like, not your
- [36:11]
A
mom's bedroom to be. But I've been to her house many times.
- [36:15]
B
Just to clarify that, I was like, I'm sorry, are you not, like, tripping ball? And you're like, no. I'm like, oh, it hasn't kicked in yet. That's why. Let's talk in 25 minutes and we'll see how we feel about this.
- [36:25]
A
Right.
- [36:25]
B
Anyway, Jordan, Zara, and my mom are on the couch in the living room watching Finding Nemo. And then it hits them, and everybody's having a grand time. And for some reason, I was like, I think I need to be alone for a little while. So I go to my room and I put on my headphones and I proceed to have the most beautiful, profound experience I've had up to that point in my life. Like, very intense visuals. Like, I'm in The desert. I'm flying over sand dunes, and I'm giggling to myself. I'm just having the time of my life. And then finally, I put on a bootleg recording I have of a very old Eckhart Tolle lecture from back in the day. And I just lied there, vibing out to Eckhart for, like, an hour, at least in my bedroom.
- [37:08]
A
I mean, you are a ridiculous person. Even then, Gabe, nothing has changed.
- [37:12]
B
This night is part of my origin story. I don't know if you know that.
- [37:15]
A
No, it makes me very happy. Anyway, while Gabe's getting right with God in his childhood bedroom, I'm in the living room sitting on the couch with Robin, Gabe's mom, and Zara watching Finding Nemo. Okay, it's hitting. And Zara is watching the TV with this massive smile on her face or having a ball. I'm in heaven, right? I'm just sitting. I'm like, oh, this is such a beautiful experience because your sister and mom are so cool and, like, beautiful. And we're watching this amazing Disney movie.
- [37:46]
B
It doesn't get better.
- [37:47]
A
Yeah. And all of a sudden, Gabe's mom is like, hey, you want to see one of my favorite movies? And I'm like, hell, yeah. So Robin puts on the movie Rebecca, and the second this movie starts, I am riveted. I've never been more into a movie in my life. And I'm like, what is this? This? Who did this? And Robin's like, yeah, this is Alfred Hitchcock. Jordan. Welcome to the party. And I was like, oh, my gosh. This guy is on one. How did he do this? This is all in black and white. An original film. And why is Rebecca like this? Imagine watching a Hitchcock movie when you're mushrooms for the first time in your life.
- [38:21]
B
So at a certain point, I'm lying on my bed, and I'm like, oh, yeah, they're in the other room. Like, what are they? I wonder what they're up to. So I walk into the living room, like, what's up, guys? And Jordan and Zara are sitting on the couch, eyes wide open, staring at the tv, just utterly transfixed. It was amazing.
- [38:37]
A
I remembered you had to say, what's up, guys? Like, three times before I realized you were really standing there. And I was like, alfred Hitchcock.
- [38:44]
B
I remember that.
- [38:45]
A
What's up?
- [38:48]
B
I don't think I've ever seen you more enraptured by something in my entire life. It was honestly inspiring to watch.
- [38:54]
A
And I was like, oh, Gabe, where have you been for the past seven hours? It wasn't even close to that long, by the way. But what are you doing in there? And you're like, like, oh, just listening to Eckhart Tolle.
- [39:04]
B
Oh, my God, I'm dying over here. I can't. I had some work to do. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry. This is.
- [39:11]
A
Yeah, you had to seek enlightenment immediately. And then you join us for a while. We finish the movie, and your mom's like, hey, you want to see something else wild? And I was like, yeah. Your track record is flawless so far, Robin. You can put on whatever you'd like. Follow your movie selections to the ends of the. And what does she put on? Casablanca, Citizen Kane, The Godfather? No, she puts on the movie Freaks. Freaks.
- [39:36]
B
I can't with this part of the story. This is like, peak my mom thing to do.
- [39:40]
A
I'm dying. So for anybody else who doesn't know, because I had to learn in the moment. Freaks is a very old movie. I don't know, what is it, like 1930s or something?
- [39:48]
B
Yeah, it's like early 30s. Pre code movie. And it is so bizarre.
- [39:53]
A
Yeah. So it's about these carnival performers, like sideshow artists and a traveling circle. And I don't remember no special effects, really. I mean, probably some makeup and things like that. But they actually found real people for this?
- [40:05]
B
Oh, yes.
- [40:05]
A
And I don't really remember what it's about, but one of them seduces the other performers, like a little person, and then she conspires to kill him to get his inheritance or something like that.
- [40:15]
B
That's basically the plot of the movie.
- [40:17]
A
Yes. This is 50 plus years before PC was even contemplated by Hollywood's Oak. Correct. Because it features a bunch of people with severe disabilities. Right. There's conjoined twins, there's a bearded lady. There are these people with really unusual physical deformities, differences, whatever the right term is right now. And you're just like, bro, I cannot believe they made this movie. And I cannot believe I'm watching this while basically tripping on mushrooms right now. It's like it's happening in front of you in your mind. It's crazy.
- [40:46]
B
Would not have been my first choice for what to watch on a psychedelic. But I love that my mom chose this movie.
- [40:51]
A
No, but it was perfect because, again, really fascinating movie and, like, weirdly touching, actually, from what I remember. But, yeah, that was a choice. Robin was like, oh, I'm driving now. Give me the wheel.
- [41:01]
B
Oh, I love you, mom for that. What an evening. Finding Nemo, Rebecca and Freaks the weirdest triple feature ever.
- [41:09]
A
It was perfect. I still think about that night quite often because of just how fun that was, how interesting that was.
- [41:15]
B
I know. It's one of my favorite memories. I think that might be the night we became true friends, actually.
- [41:19]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Nothing like taking some dank shrooms with somebody to bond for life in their. With their mom.
- [41:25]
B
It's either that or you're like, get me away from this person.
- [41:27]
A
Yeah, true. Could go either way. Thankfully, we had a good time. I was a little worried because, you know, I've never had a bad trip or seen one, but I'm like, oh, I don't want to, like, ruin Gabriel's life and not eat. You know what I mean?
- [41:37]
B
Could not have gone better. I remember when we came down, I cut up some strawberries, and you ate one. You're like, this is the greatest strawberry I've ever had. Is this what strawberries taste like? I was like, yeah, I think so.
- [41:49]
A
Yeah, that sounds like me. I do love me some post fungus fruit.
- [41:52]
B
I feel like my life forked that night. That was a pivotal evening for me.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah, it's amazing to think about. I mean, I'm glad I could play a role in your ridiculous flowering.
- [42:02]
B
Dude, me too. I'm so grateful. That evening was, honestly, it's hilarious. But it was profound for me. Very profound.
- [42:08]
A
The fungus do be like that. But, yeah, Amazing thing to think that the first brick in that path that led to feedback Friday was laid at Robin's house while I melted into her couch and you listened to Eckhart Tolle lectures in the Arabian Peninsula.
- [42:21]
B
Bro, I'm dying. I need to pull it together. Okay.
- [42:24]
A
Anyway, what's interesting about that is maybe I've done them once since then with, like, a doctor supervising. So that was it for me. I. This is. I want to clarify, folks. This is so long ago. Were we Both in our 20s, probably, or, like, maybe I was in my early 30s. And I'm 46 now. So this is. I want to just be really clear that I'm not like, hey, everyone should try this. You know, we had a great time. I don't want to give off that vibe.
- [42:48]
B
I understand. Way to distance yourself from this beautiful memory we just laid out. But I understand we did it, and
- [42:53]
A
it worked out really great. But it's kind of like. Like, there's risks to this stuff when people just take drugs from the dark web. That's not where I got mine. But, you know, sourcing this stuff is important, and we had a lot of luck when it came to the whole chain of events.
- [43:05]
B
What a beautiful transition back to our letter, back to our friend. So he pops some shrooms, he busts a game, he puts on his Bose headphones, he blasts off, and he goes on. As you can imagine, I definitely wanted to experience that again.
- [43:18]
A
Yes, I understand.
- [43:21]
B
So I went to my neighbor and asked him for some mushrooms. Looked like the same amount to me. It was not. It was much more. I did not know that he was hooking me up and did not tell me. He didn't think I was going to eat the whole bag.
- [43:34]
A
Oh, man, I'm getting the sweats over here. This is why you got a dose, homie. This is why drug dealers have scales and pharmacists have scales, for that matter.
- [43:44]
B
Yeah, that, and they want to make sure they make a profit. But I take your point.
- [43:47]
A
That's right.
- [43:47]
B
That's mostly. I don't think they care about that so much.
- [43:49]
A
The other reason is irrelevant to them. That's a good point. Never mind.
- [43:52]
B
But, yeah, you can't eyeball the baby bell as my guy.
- [43:54]
A
This is not an extra pinch of cardamom in your soup.
- [43:57]
B
An extra pinch can send you to the Arabian Peninsula or the astral realm.
- [44:00]
A
That's right. Or the psych ward, frankly.
- [44:02]
B
Two hours later, I'm lying in my bed in a hot sweat, and I can't see anything except for upside down sevens scrolling through a slot machine. And I'm, like, viewing this from inside the machine.
- [44:14]
A
I'm sorry, that sounds terrifying, but it's also so funny somehow. Upside down sevens inside a slot machine, and you're looking at this, you're also inside the machine. This is one of those things that I think people who've had vivid dreams and. Or have done psychic Alex can totally picture, but everyone else is like, hey, I don't. I'm lost.
- [44:31]
B
I cannot think of a worse number to be pummeled with on Shroom's seven.
- [44:35]
A
Oh, because it's odd. It's an odd number, Mr. OCD.
- [44:38]
B
Is that why six, eight, ten. You can survive that. Seven. A prime, no less.
- [44:43]
A
I think this guy had bigger problems than not being able to divide his hallucination by anything except itself.
- [44:50]
B
I'm just saying it makes everything worse that it was seven. That's what I'm saying.
- [44:53]
A
If only. Yes. If only he could do long division on his Reno casino nightmare, everything would be. What are you talk.
- [44:59]
B
It was terrifying. Eventually, I felt like I was going to fall asleep, pass out, overheating. I could taste vomit in My mouth.
- [45:07]
A
Oh, that's so stressful. This. In all seriousness, this sounds horrible.
- [45:11]
B
Somehow I was able to pull myself off of my bed and go into the kitchen where my parents were. I couldn't communicate to them what was going on, but I was able to get my mother to get me to the hospital.
- [45:20]
A
Can you imagine this woman seeing her son walk into the kitchen, absolutely zonked on magic mushrooms? Basically having a crazy. Some crazy. Turned up to 11 panic attack and having to drive. Drive him to the er? My God.
- [45:32]
B
Yeah, that must have been really hard for her. Also doing a heroic dose of magic mushrooms while your parents are in the other room watching Matlock. That is a. Yeah, that is a choice.
- [45:41]
A
I mean, given the story we just told.
- [45:44]
B
You know what?
- [45:45]
A
Good point. We're in a position to judge him for that. Okay. I mean, we did. We did ours with your mom. I mean, I don't know. Is that better or worse? Like, I don't know yet.
- [45:52]
B
I mean, she knew about it, and we were. We had dosed. Right? So, like, not the word.
- [45:56]
A
Anyway, that's true.
- [45:57]
B
I feel bad for everybody involved. He goes on, When I walked in through the ER doors, I barely got to the front desk before toppling to the ground. I was a vegetable stuck inside myself, screaming. But my mouth wasn't moving.
- [46:10]
A
Jeez, man.
- [46:11]
B
For what felt like 12 hours, it was actually only an hour and a half, I couldn't move, and I couldn't make any of my thoughts known, though I was having full and very deep thoughts. The mushrooms started talking to me, telling me that they were here to take me over, to take over my body. I said, you can't have it. I'm here, and I'm not going anywhere. I will not close my eyes. I will not die. You cannot have me. They said, okay, that's fine. We'll be here together.
- [46:37]
A
While he sits behind curtain six at Kaiser Permanente at 3am What a nightmare.
- [46:42]
B
That is a nightmare being in the hospital. But this sounds kind of interesting to me.
- [46:47]
A
Well, negotiating with the fungus over whether they get to take over your body and keep you alive or whatever.
- [46:51]
B
He said he was having very full and deep thoughts. That sounds nice. And the mushrooms literally said, that's fine. We'll be here together.
- [46:57]
A
I don't know.
- [46:58]
B
They sound pretty friendly to me. I'm just. Just intense, that's all.
- [47:01]
A
That's a fair point. But clearly this was terrifying for him.
- [47:04]
B
I know I'm having a laugh, but, dude, sometimes you just. You got to strap in and see where the ride takes You. I don't know what to tell you.
- [47:10]
A
Strap in or be strapped in by an orderly and pray they don't 5150 your hippie ass and send you a bill for $20,000. I don't know.
- [47:17]
B
I'm also saying this because it doesn't sound like they had to do anything for him medically.
- [47:21]
A
Right.
- [47:21]
B
He just had to ride it out in a bed until it was over.
- [47:23]
A
So, you know, it's interesting. I've seen medical staff discuss this online, on radio, Reddit, and one of the things that they do is they just do what they do in hospitals all over the United States, which is take so long to actually get to you while making you mostly comfortable and giving you water that by the time the doctor comes to see you, it's been six hours and you're fine. Yeah.
- [47:45]
B
I don't know what's worse, having to go to the hospital or having to stay there in the waiting room waiting for them to see you while you're freaking out until you're like, wait, I think I'm okay now.
- [47:52]
A
I'm good now. Yeah, exactly.
- [47:54]
B
That might be the more compassionate choice. And then you don't get a bill for $9,000. To your point.
- [47:58]
A
Yeah. They're not giving you like an IV bag and rushing you around. They're like, oh, you're high. Well, you won't be by the time anything happens here. So sit here for five hours looking at the wall.
- [48:08]
B
Have a seat. If you didn't do fentanyl, you're gonna be okay. Yeah, but, you know, I don't know. This probably would have been much nicer at home.
- [48:14]
A
I think so. Yeah.
- [48:16]
B
Takes a few trips to learn that lesson. He panicked. Yep, I get it.
- [48:19]
A
I totally understand.
- [48:19]
B
So he goes on. As you might imagine, I was not able to go to work the next day or the next, or the next, or even the next.
- [48:28]
A
Oh, no. So this wasn't. Hey, I ate 25% more than I should have. This is almost like I might have done damage to my brain. That's really scary.
- [48:36]
B
It took a couple of weeks before I was able to drive into work, and yet I sat in the parking lot shaking and trembling and eventually just calling in and driving back home. I eventually went to quit my job without being fully honest about what was going on. I just said that I was having anxiety and my boss put me on a 12 week leave. And at the end of that, the company was luckily offering a severance, so I took it because I still was unable to perform my tasks.
- [49:02]
A
Holy smokes. Okay, so this is, you know, this is why you dose people. You don't want to do so many mushrooms that you forget how to use Microsoft Excel. Actually, that's a bad example because nobody knows Microsoft, but it sounds like this dude can't even remember to log into Outlook, right? He's not even able to function, function. He can't show up to work. And I'm not laughing at this guy. This is awful.
- [49:24]
B
Unfortunately, I'm not able to work in that field again without risking losing the pension that I've accrued up to this point. Oh, my gosh. And the anxiety is still pretty high. So now I drive Uber for money. It kind of takes care of my daily expenses. But I owe my mother $500 and I owe cash app about $160. I'm not even going to go into what's going on with my collection situation. I don't know if you've picked up on this, but I don't have a lot of inspiration driving me. My best friend moved to Idaho, and the small circle of friends that I had before my divorce all slowly faded away. As a depressed divorcee is not exactly the most fun person to be around. Drinking too much, smoking weed at the improper times, and always complaining about my ex and my divorce.
- [50:10]
A
Man, you've been going through it. Being isolated is so hard. Hard.
- [50:14]
B
Lately, my ex, who lives with the guy she left me for, we've been talking lately about the ways that we let each other down. Apologizing for them and forgiving each other. And it really is good.
- [50:25]
A
No, for the love of God, no. Why? What are you doing?
- [50:29]
B
Don't worry. We don't go anywhere where we're alone and we're not seeking a relationship. Even though the one she has with the guy she lives with is pretty much over. And he says he doesn't even like her.
- [50:38]
A
Well, no kidding. She probably cheated on him three times already. She's looking for the next branch to swing to, and I'm afraid your her fallback.
- [50:47]
B
So I say all of what I have said to say that once I'm done with these meetings with my ex and neither one of us feels like we need to say sorry anymore. I don't know what to do.
- [50:57]
A
That sentence hurt my brain. But okay, I think I understand.
- [51:00]
B
I feel like that sentence came from inside the slot machine.
- [51:03]
A
Yes. I can't explain it. That sentence was a string of linguistic sevens.
- [51:07]
B
So I say all of what I have said to say the phrase you're
- [51:10]
A
looking for is all that to Say all that.
- [51:12]
B
To say that is iconic really comes in handy for moments like this.
- [51:17]
A
That phrase, for moments when you don't want to take up three more minutes of conversation explaining that you've already said the thing. That was just the preamble to the thing. Yes.
- [51:23]
B
My anxiety is so high. All I want to do is go make the money I need to make with Uber so I can get back home where it's safe, smoke a bowl or drink a beer and go to sleep.
- [51:34]
A
I have so much sympathy for this. I mean, with go home where it's safe, that's saying a lot. But, my guy, you should not be using substances right now.
- [51:42]
B
Now I don't even know how to make a goal. I'm 37 years old. I barely graduated high school. I have absolutely no network, like, literally no one. I don't know if I can trust a person to do life with, and I don't know if I can trust myself to take care of them the way I should. I don't know how to build strong relationships, and I don't know what to do about my career, and I have no idea who's going to take care of me when I'm old. My ex and I were unable to get pregnant, and I feel like it would be so rude to make someone live life with this broken me. I don't know if I can fix.
- [52:16]
A
So intense, man. Okay.
- [52:18]
B
Any advice would be very much appreciated. I love your show. Signed, a guy searching for a compass because he's currently coming up with bupkis after consuming some gnarly fungus.
- [52:29]
A
Holy smokes.
- [52:31]
B
Yeah, dude.
- [52:32]
A
What a story. Captain Slaughter Machine and the poster child for the male loneliness epidemic.
- [52:37]
B
I find this letter difficult, but weirdly compelling.
- [52:41]
A
It is compelling. I mean, he's been through some crazy stuff. Getting cheated on multiple times, having the trip from hell, losing his job, and now having to confront all of this very intense sort of fundamental existential stuff. Look, I feel bad because we've been having a little bit of a laugh this whole time, but this is obviously very difficult for him. Very difficult. He's earnest, a little reckless, clearly, but honest and vulnerable. And that just. It makes me want to root for him, even though I have so many questions about how he makes decisions. It's an interesting quality. Okay, so let's start with a little psa. This mushroom story, in contrast to our own, is a cautionary tale. And I'm not gonna turn this into a dare lecture, but psychedelics used responsibly by the right people, with the right people in the right dose in the right setting with the right supervision. I mean, they're doing clinical trials on this stuff these days. It's literally curing depression and anxiety and ptsd. So I am not antipsychedelic, but I am also not saying, hey, everyone should just go out and do this stuff, grab some off the dark web and see what happens. But the therapeutic potential of psilocybin, plus all the other benefits. Spiritual, creative. I mean, look, if you're popping 12 caps on your own in your apartment and you're not in the best place, you're in the Wild West. That's risky. But it can also be very helpful. Again, if you do it right with the right people. And maybe a doctor or your cinephile mom or your cinephile mother in the room. But the way you did it, just shoving a bunch of these bad boys in your mouth. You don't need me to tell you this. That is not the way that you responsibly use this stuff. I know you didn't realize what you were getting into. I know you trusted your neighbor, but this is. It's a little nuts, dude. It's reckless. And I'm so sorry that you had that night after having a positive experience. And I'm sorry that it did such a number on you. The fact that you're still dealing with anxiety three plus months later. This derailed your career in your whole life, kind of. And that it's kind of made you want to stay home a lot. That's really scary and it's very unfortunate. So my heart goes out to you. It really does. That's not how it's supposed to be. All that to say, please, please, please be very careful with this stuff, guys. It's all fun and games until you're trying to tell an ER nurse that you're stuck inside a pachinko machine and the fungus is trying to colonize your meat puppet.
- [54:57]
B
Sorry. It's still so funny. I still maintain that that could have been an interesting evening if he had just stayed in bed and put on his headphones.
- [55:03]
A
But I'm trying to save people over here, Gabe. Maybe don't give them the advice to just curl up with Eckhart Tolle.
- [55:08]
B
I'm sorry, I'm just. I just wonder what would have happened if. If he had vomited and then written it out. I think it might have been.
- [55:14]
A
Okay, look, again, not medical advice. But if you find yourself in a crappy situation like this, eat a bunch of food. Especially something with fat in it. Like, if you House a bunch of peanut butter. That's supposed to help, but what really helps is not doing it in the first place. But, yeah, you're not helping, you psycho. I don't think Beats by Dre is gonna have changed the outcome here.
- [55:33]
B
Okay, from the man who pitched almond butter as the solution to his freak out.
- [55:37]
A
Okay, I said peanut butter. I'm not up with those. Fancy nut butter. Unless they're about to sponsor the show, in which case I will endorse the crap out of them.
- [55:44]
B
All right, we all know what you like. I've seen you at Erewhon.
- [55:47]
A
You've seen me at Erewhon. You brought me to Erewhon.
- [55:50]
B
I did, but you were the one who went straight for the almond butter aisle.
- [55:53]
A
Yeah, they have a whole aisle of that stuff. Anyway, he's not Hunter S. Thompson, you know? He's just a regular guy who recently discovered mushrooms and whose wife left him for a guy with, I guess, mid Riz who works at Domino's, which, by the way, maybe not the ideal time to take a heroic dose of magic mushrooms. Set and setting. People, people. Okay, so PSA over. Let's talk about your main question. It's interesting. I don't know if you're a full blown addict, although it sounds like you're using booze and weed to cope. So you might be flirting with dependency, but in a way, the picture I'm getting from your letter is that you're sort of. You're sort of hitting a rock bottom here. I don't know if the after effects of the trip brought this out or this was building for some time. My money's on the ladder, candidly, but it sounds like you've sort of woken up into your own life and you're going, holy crap, I'm lost. I'm behind. I'm under resourced in a number of ways. I'm isolated, I'm scared. I have no idea what to do about it. This is a very intense place to be, man. It can be very scary. I say that not to pile on, just to acknowledge that you're in a very difficult place. And I feel for you. I also feel that this is exactly where you need to be. You probably needed to get to this point for whatever reason, in order to see your situation more clearly and to decide what you want to do about it. It's not easy, but it's powerful, or potentially powerful, depending on what you do next. So nothing I can do or say in 10 minutes on a podcast is gonna fix all your problems overnight. I Think you know that, but I hear you. You're genuinely asking for help, so I'm gonna be very direct with you. This might be a little intense, but I say it with a lot of love for you. After this story you told us. You're 37 years old. It's not too late for you. It's never too late to make a radical change. But you also don't have any time to waste. You barely graduated high school. Followed. That might be an obstacle in certain fields. It might inform the way certain people view you. But you do not need a college degree to earn a good living and take care of yourself in this world. And if you do, then you can learn to be the student you need to be to get where you want to go, if you really put your mind to it. But I can almost guarantee you you're not going to get anywhere meaningful without other good people in your life. You're isolated right now, which is psychologically very difficult. And practically that's going to hold you back. So part of your job, this will be a surprise to no one, is to start meeting people in a very different spirit with a lot more thoughtfulness. No more sort of sad sack divorced guy getting schwasted at the wrong times and banging on about his ex too much. Those days are over. You go hang out with your friends or with new people. You stay sober. You treat people kindly. You ask good questions. You listen. You take a real interest in other people. You give other people a reason to take an interest in you. I'm not trying to be finger waggy about this, okay? I'm not trying to give you a lecture. I'm just cutting through the fog of your situation here in the few minutes we have together and telling you very directly the stuff that works. You don't know how to set a goal? Fine. Forget about goals for a minute. Go ask the people in your life what they need. Look for ways to be of help. Your friend owns an auto body shop. Pitch in somehow. Your cousin runs an Etsy business. Go help her pack some boxes. Learn how the business works. You walk into a business you like, like ask them if they need an extra pair of hands. You cannot go wrong being of service. You do that enough, you're going to find out what people need from you. You're going to learn what you have to offer. The path will start to become clearer and maybe a couple goals start to take shape. Or maybe your life just starts to open up and you follow the opportunities and you don't even need goals. But sitting around saying, oh, I don't even know how to make a goal. That's just not going to get you anywhere. But as for trusting a person to do life with, not knowing if you trust yourself to take care of somebody else, Look, I believe you. Your life needs a lot of attention right now and a lot of care. This is a cringe word, but truth bomb delivered with love from Uncle Jordan. Candidly, I would not be prioritizing a romantic relationship of any kind right now. You want someone to do life with, start with yourself. You want to take care of somebody, take care of yourself. You're not in a place to create a healthy, high functioning relationship right now. Now, you could be sooner than you might think, but certainly not right now. Right now you need to focus almost entirely on yourself and the good people in your life not trying to get laid or find someone to watch Matlock with or. I promise you, you take these practices seriously, the right person will enter your life at some point. I really do believe that. And if finding a partner is truly important to you, if you're afraid of ending up alone, then there's your motivation to turn the ship around. You can become the kind of partner that you say you want to be so you can have the old age you say that you want to have. Are you still with me? I know I'm being intense. I'm just giving it to you straight. No more booze, no more weed. Definitely no more psychedelics. Not until you're in a much more stable place and you have a doctor's stamp of approval. I understand you're in pain, man. The anxiety is bad. The alcohol and marijuana, they probably seem like they help, at least temporarily, but they are not helping helping. They might make you pass out for a little while so you can get some peace, but they are not helping you tackle your life. They are not moving you closer to healing any of this. As I've said a million times in this particular question, I am not a doctor. I don't know what's going on in your brain. I don't know if you have, you know, permanent brain damage from mushrooms. Honestly, I doubt it. But it's possible. It's also possible that this anxiety was already there and now it's just a lot worse. And it's definitely possible that you can work on it by working on whatever trauma you have, by taking a look at your mindsets, by engaging with yourself and life differently, moving your body, getting some exercise every day, by seeking a psychiatrist and looking into medication, hitting your bong and drinking Three beers every night, dude, that is not medicine. You want a different life? This is how it starts. Even if you made one or two of these changes, the impact those have on your life could be enormous.
- [61:41]
B
Damned, dude. That was quite a message. Thank you for saying all of that. I really hope this is landing with him in some way.
- [61:48]
A
Me too. And one last thing. I feel very strongly that you need to leave your ex in the past. Yeah, you're having some meaningful conversations. You guys are apologizing, okay? If that gives you some necessary closure to this whole thing, fine. But I'm getting the sense that you are still entangled with this person. This person treated you quite poorly for reasons that are unclear to me. Or maybe we know what the reason is. There's a part of you that's looking for comfort and connection and distraction and you're backsliding again. This is doing nothing for you, dude. Your relationship with her was unfair. It was unhealthy, it was dysfunctional. It was a reflection of what you were capable of. But it's been three years, and I hope you've grown a bit in that time. You have the potential to grow a lot more right now. Leave this woman alone. Let her leave you alone. And by the way, thank God. This sounds harsh, but thank God you and your ex were not able to get pregnant. Can you imagine? Imagine going through everything you're going through and you have a kid. I'm not trying to be cruel. I really. I swear I'm not. But you should be thanking your lucky stars that that didn't happen for you guys. You are largely free. So what are you going to do with that freedom? That is the question that you need to answer, that we all really need to answer for ourselves. Is it daunting? Hell, yeah. Being free is a huge responsibility. Is it exciting? It can be. Once you start taking baby steps towards these practices and see where they lead. Because this rock bottom thing you're in right now, it's humbling. It's scary, I know, but it's also a necessary breakdown. This is the soil in which something new can grow. It's the story of every person who's made a radical change in their lives. And in that way, this could be a really remarkable new beginning for you.
- [63:30]
B
I am saluting everything you just said, Jordan. And again, beautifully put. I just want to say one more thing, and I'm gonna take a wild swing here. Part of me is going, did the mushrooms actually do their job here? Maybe a little too well. I know that sounds crazy, because it's possible that this guy really his brain in some way. So I'm not trying to be cute here. I am genuinely concerned about what happened to you. And if you need some help or you need to see some doctors about it, you should. I hope you get that help. But also, it's possible that this substance you took did something powerful. Powerful. This anxiety. Sounds awful, but did the mushrooms, I dunno, create some new neural pathways? Did they chip away at some defenses? You had some defenses against this anxiety, which, to Jordan's point, might have existed before. Did it wash away some old narratives? Did it bring up some new information? Which, by the way, is exactly what all of the researchers working on psilocybin say it does. And now you're in touch with a lot of new feelings and a lot of new information, including this anxiety. Anxiety that you might have been repressing before. It's possible.
- [64:33]
A
Holy cow. Yeah, that's kind of a hot take, I suppose.
- [64:36]
B
Look, I wish you did not have to go into the slot machine to get to this point, but, like, maybe you needed to look at your life from inside the slot machine. I don't know, maybe you needed to realize that you were coming up all sevens, bro. Which is a truly unfortunate number. In order to realize that, you need to pull different ones. Right. Or you need to play a different game. Game entirely.
- [64:56]
A
Gabe, I can't tell if you're joking right now.
- [64:59]
B
I am. And I'm not. Right. I'm choosing to think of his vision as a kind of dream. I don't think these images come out of nowhere. I think they almost certainly represent aspects of a person and they're usually meaningful. And if you don't believe that, that's okay. He gets to decide what his vision meant. But I'm sitting here and I'm just thinking about his trip from hell and I'm like, you know, looking out at the world from inside of a horrible slot machine scene. That is a powerful image for a guy who has been gambling with his life in a variety of ways.
- [65:28]
A
Well, shit, that's. Yeah, maybe you're onto something. Like I said, these molecules are very powerful. They are not to be trifled with. They are not for everyone. But you're right. They definitely give you some strong messages and they might have given him something that he needed. And anyway, what's done is done. So he might as well assume that what came up for him that night was meaningful in some way. Way. See what he wants to do with that information and see where that gets him. This is not going to be easy, man, but I promise you it can't be harder than what you're doing now. I genuinely believe that. So here's your wake up call, man. Time to do things differently. Sober and deliberately and thoughtfully. And trust that that's going to take you in the right direction. We're rooting for you, friend. Good luck. Also, in case you don't know, there's a subreddit for the show. This sounds ridiculous out on the heels of that letter, doesn't it? But you can tell us how wrong or right we are on the subredd and we read all that stuff and man, this is going to kick off a psychedelics thread. I know it. So that's more than welcome over there on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. All right, now you get to take a heroic dose of the dank deals and discounts on the potent products and services that support this show. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by LinkedIn. Running a small business means every hire matters. A bad hire can cost you time, money and moment momentum. A good hire that can help you grow your business. This gives me flashbacks to a nightmare hire in my previous company that really stunted the business, and even talking about it now makes my blood pressure go up. But the right hire is the exact opposite. Somebody who takes ownership, solves problems and helps the business grow faster. And when you're small, that kind of impact is massive. But finding great talent isn't easy, especially when you don't have the time or resources to sift through piles of resumes to find the right fit. That's why LinkedIn built hiring hiring Pro, your new hiring partner that screens candidates for you. So instead of sorting through applications, you spend your time talking to candidates who are actually a good fit. With Hiring Pro, you can hire with confidence, knowing you're getting the best talent for your business. In fact, Those hiring with LinkedIn are 24% less likely to need to reopen a role within 12 months compared to the leading competitor.
- [67:30]
C
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A
like an urgent, expensive repair.
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C
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A
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C
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- [68:09]
A
If you liked this episode of Feedback Friday and found our advice valuable, I invite you to do what other smart and considerate listeners do. Take a moment. Support our amazing sponsors. All of the deals, discounts and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the website at jordanharbinger.com deals if codes don't work, you can't find something. Just leave us a one star review like that dipshit did the other day because he couldn't find something in the show notes. You can email us. I say this enough, this person could have just emailed us. He left us a one star review. Anyway, you can email us jordanordanharbinger.com, we're happy to dig up codes for you. I don't know what the problem is people. And by the way, if anyone's confused, the full show notes are always on the website. Like I say at the end of the episode. So there's a truncated version, I don't know, in Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. Those aren't the show notes. That's a description. There's a full write up with all of the links on the website. I think some people are confused about that. That's why that guy just raged at us like crazy. But thank you so much for supporting those who support the the show. And now for the rest of Feedback Friday. And now for the recommendation of the week.
- [69:09]
B
I am addicted to lip filler.
- [69:12]
A
So a couple months ago we enrolled Jaden and Juniper in online Chinese lessons. You know, trying to capitalize on that whole neuroplasticity window before their language synapses stop growing or whatever. And the crucial window closes when they're eight or you know, whatever age it is. It's important to us that we all speak pretty good Chinese so we can talk together, you know, secret language and all that, travel to Taiwan, China, other Chinese speaking places and speak the language. And who knows, maybe Jaden and Juni get jobs one day that require Chinese. There's a lot of upsides to this and it's good for your brain and it's super fun. So we signed up for this company called Wukong Education. They offer interactive Mandarin Chinese classes for children ages 3 to 18, both online and in person. And they specialize in teaching overseas families, mostly from the US and Canada. They're big on one to one learning. They have small group sessions, their teachers are all certified. They have a structured Curriculum. And they focus on vocab and conversation, which is really clutch. And it's all gamified, right? So Jaden and Juni, they do a 30 minute one on one lesson with a teacher who's in China six days a week. At first we were like, oh, we're gonna have to twist some arms. We started them at two days a week, three days a week. We upped it to six. They really enjoy it. We told Juniper we were gonna go to China this summer. And she goes, oh no, my Chinese needs to be way better if we're gonna go there. I have to do more lessons.
- [70:28]
B
Oh, that's so cute.
- [70:29]
A
It's been over two months now. Their Chinese is so much better. I. Juni used to not speak Chinese at all. Now she does. And Jaden was losing his Chinese after a few years because he left the Chinese preschool and he went to a regular school. And now it's all coming back. It's actually crazy to watch. Juni will. She will be watching YouTube and then her homework thing will pop up. It's like your homework is ready in the Wukong app. And she goes, yay. I want to stop watching YouTube and do my Chinese homework. So they love doing the sessions because they're really fun, fun and so Wukong, not a sponsor of the show or anything like that, but they are offering all of our listeners a free trial lesson and a free learning bundle. God knows what that is. If you use the link that is in the show notes on the website. I promise. Hope you give them a try if you're interested in learning Chinese or having your kids do so. All right, what's next?
- [71:17]
B
Good day. Jordan and Gabriel. I'm a 41 year old man who currently works as a heavy equipment operator for a local government agency entity. I'm married with two kids. One of them graduates from high school this year and the other is currently a freshman. I'm making more than I've ever made, but I'm still living paycheck to paycheck. My wife also works full time and I'm working two other jobs.
- [71:39]
A
Holy cow, you guys are dedicated. Burning the candle at both ends, I might add. That's got to be a lot.
- [71:44]
B
I've been doing my full time job for two years and I love what I do. But the political situation and leadership structure at work are almost non existent existent. There are times after my family have all gone to bed and I'm left to my thoughts that I feel that I'm a failure as a father. It's a Heavy burden.
- [72:02]
A
Man. That is really tough, especially for a man. I'm sorry to hear that.
- [72:06]
B
I look on the job websites and see positions that could double my income, but at what cost to my family. New hours, missing school events and just being able to be around the ones I love the most. My son is graduating soon. His foray into adulthood. Adulthood. My daughter has found her niche in high school drama. I only have three more years of her being home. I don't want to miss the rest of the school years I have left with her.
- [72:29]
A
I feel this so hard. It's hard to put a price on this.
- [72:32]
B
Am I doing my family a disservice by working so much and maybe working even more, which would mean that I don't see them as much? Or do I need to upgrade my job signed, make more plans to stack my bands or hit pause on that demand, even though it means we can't expect spend so I can be there for my fam.
- [72:51]
A
Wow. Yeah. That is the question. First off, I am very sorry you guys have been struggling to make ends meet that you and your wife have to work so hard to stay afloat. This is the story of so many families right now in America especially. I'm just kind of in awe of people who do what they have to do to provide. It is remarkable. Candidly, I know people always say, jordan, you're the only person I know uses the word candidly in conversation. Candidly, there's a part of me going, you're working a full time job and two other jobs. Your wife is working full time. You're making more than you've ever made and you're still living paycheck to paycheck. How is that possible? What is going on here? But maybe that's the reality of your industry. You're part of the country, you and your family situation, raising two kids, all that. Maybe I'm grossly out of touch with how expensive it is in all of these other parts of the United States right now. I would obviously need so much more information to really know this and it's not my place to be your financial coach or whatever. I'm just taken aback by that. That a bit. So I have to ask, are you guys managing your finances as well as you can? Are you planning and budgeting? Are you advocating for yourselves professionally as well as you can so that you can earn the money you want to make? These are just questions. I have no idea, of course, the answers. But I understand that this is also not what you are writing in about.
- [74:01]
B
I mean, no but also it kind of is, isn't it?
- [74:04]
A
Well, it might be part of the answer. Because if this is really just a question of basic financial management, then that might help solve his problem. Problem. But the deeper question he's asking is, what's more important? Time with my family or money?
- [74:17]
B
Oh, man. I mean, I feel like the answer to that is both super easy and also complicated.
- [74:22]
A
Well, as a father, a fellow father, I want to say it's family every time. The next three years are crucial. You cannot get this time back. If making less money means spending more quality time with your kids, which is so rewarding and precious, kind of the whole point of having kids, then that sounds like a good trade off off to me. But it goes without saying. The practical reality is obviously trickier. If you're really living paycheck to paycheck, what happens if one of you guys, I don't know, you break your leg, you got to go to the hospital or the water heater in your house breaks and you got to replace it? Or your daughter gets into an expensive college or, I don't know, wants to move to New York to pursue some career and she needs help to get started. Obviously finding a way to make more money would also be a way of loving and showing up for your children. Not necessarily the most important way, but let's not be naive. It's a powerful way and it can make a big difference. And I know this is part of the unique burden of being a father or provider, being a man. A lot of the time we put all of this on ourselves. There's a lot of women that do this too, of course, but I can only speak for myself. It can be very intense. So I really feel for you, bud. So all fine and dandy for me to be like, hey, don't work more. Just love and enjoy your kids. When loving and enjoying your kids might also mean providing for them and giving them food to eat. But now I'm kind of back to my earlier thought. Before you think about giving up even more time to make more money, I would really make sure you guys are being very disciplined. Disciplined about the money you're already making. Are there any areas where you might be overspending? Is there a way for you or your wife to look for a raise or a promotion or another full time job, A different full time job with better compensation? Can you put the money you currently make to work in a different way? Again, I'm not trying to suze the Orman you at all. Not my, not my skill set. I'M just covering all the angles. I'm thinking about that George Saunders option A versus Option B thing Gabe shared a while back. How when we think we have to choose between two mutually exclusive things, in your case time working versus time with family, sometimes we're missing that there's a third or fourth fifth way.
- [76:12]
B
Yeah, totally. Which often means we have to find it or create it exactly ourselves.
- [76:16]
A
So those are a few ways to create it. But listen, whatever you do, here's what I'd keep in mind. If you decide to work more, A make sure you absolutely have to that it's more important than being at home. And and B be very intentional and make sure this work is truly compensating you the way you need so that the time away from your family is for a good reason. If you decide to not pursue more work and spend more time with your family, I would make that time as valuable as possible by being super present, super generous, super grateful. In other words, really be there and really soak it up.
- [76:49]
B
Oh man, that is such a good point, Jordan. Because it's probably easier for him to look at these job postings and go, man, I could be making an another 12k if I did that job. It might be harder to look at his family and think, man, I could be making this 10x more rewarding if I listened better or if I paid closer attention. If I created great experiences for us and was like super involved. Whatever it is, you can't put a dollar value on that. So you might not think about it in that way. But this time with your family is an asset as well. Arguably the most important asset. And the love that you have for them and the quality of your attention when you're them. That's a currency too. Arguably the most important currency.
- [77:24]
A
Dude, a hundred percent. One hundred percent. Something I have to remind myself from time to time when I'm hanging with the kids or when Jen and I take them on a family trip. Like really be here. Really soak this up. You get to decide how meaningful this is. And please keep looking for that third way, a way out of the binary. Maybe that's managing your money differently. Maybe that's channeling this energy you're spending looking at other jobs into your current roles, trying to rise up and get a raise, jumping to another place that pays you more. Maybe it's collaborating with your wife better to maximize the time you guys have with your kids. Maybe it's deciding that you can gamble with living paycheck to paycheck for three more years. So you can be around more and then just coming up with a plan to create a safety net. Once your daughter graduates, only you can decide which move is right for you. But as much as you can, try not to buy into the binary too much. Sometimes life really does come to option A or option B. But more and more I'm realizing that those are just the obvious options. And there are a bunch of other good ones, usually better, with ones hidden behind them. Rooting for you my friend. Hugs to you and your family and good luck. Go back and check out Nicole Sacks and our Skeptical Sunday on Dialysis. If you haven't heard those yet, remember show notes and transcripts on the website for the full show. Notes jordanharbinger.com advertisers, deals, discounts, ways to support the show all@jordanharbinger.com deals I'm @jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Gabe's on Instagram at Gabriel Mizra this show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, Tata Sidlowskis, and of course Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own and I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Consult a qualified professional before implementing anything you hear on the show. And don't do drugs. I have to say that probably Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use the advice we gave here today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. That cute family vlog or kid influencer, you scroll past it might be part of a system where platforms profit while predators watch. In this preview, Taylor Lorenz breaks down how the influencer economy exploits kids and what parents need to know.
- [79:31]
C
I actually talk a lot about the origins of the influencer economy and where it came from. Influencer marketing continues to to grow. We're seeing this broad shift towards personality driven media. Brands want to be part of everyone's life. They want to monetize every brand moment as well. Like they monetize the moments in these children's lives, in the family's lives. If the family's moving, if the daughter has her first period. Some people are only making a few hundred dollars a month on TikTok maybe, but some are making millions. And so there is quite a range. If you're really successful on YouTube and TikTok. You are are likely making millions of dollars in sponsorship money and ad revenue. Same does stuff to you and I think none of us are prepared for it. What becomes a problem is this influencer economy that we built intersecting with surveillance. Now we have AI systems that can scrape all those videos, can pull out clips, can find your face in any single piece of content online through facial recognition. It's just all becoming a lot more dystopian and kids are being tracked and surveilled. But there's something that I think is actually a bigger reason, I guess like a bigger problem with this whole like child influencer industry. And that is the fact that young people don't have their identity formed yet. Young people are exploring who they are. They're trying to learn who they are. I promise you, we are rapidly losing privacy and the way things are going is really dark. I would argue that again, the best thing that you can give your child is actually privacy.
- [80:59]
A
To learn why protecting kids online has never been harder, check out the full episode 1206 on the Jordan Harbinger Show. Granger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners.
- [81:22]
C
Corners.
- [81:22]
A
Lights about to fail. Filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. This episode is sponsored in part by Everything Everywhere Daily. You've heard the phrase, learn something new every day. Sounds nice, but do you actively do it? That's where Everything Everywhere Daily comes comes in. This podcast makes it effortless. Just 10 minutes a day, you'll walk away with a fascinating fact, a slice of history, a science gem. It's no wonder the show has climbed up to the top as the number one history podcast. It covers history, science, technology, geography, and stories of remarkable people, always in a way that keeps you hooked. Not sure where to jump in? Start with these. The eruption of Krakatoa. Nature's fury in one of the deadliest volcanic events ever recorded. Or the spice, how a handful of spices changed the course of global history. History. If you want to make learning effortless and fun, check out Everything Everywhere Daily. It's quick, fascinating, and a perfect way to stay curious. Listen now. Wherever you get your podcasts?