1344: Avocados | Skeptical Sunday

Summary

The Jordan Harbinger Show | Skeptical Sunday #1344: The Truth About Avocados
June 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This Skeptical Sunday delves into the unexpected and often dark side of avocados, a fruit beloved at brunch, hyped on social media, and the subject of intense global demand. Host Jordan Harbinger and researcher/writer Jessica Wynn peel back the “green gold” story—from its ancient origins to modern cartel entanglements—exploring how avocados, far from being a simple healthy food craze, are entangled with violence, environmental destruction, and labor abuses.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Avocado Origins and History

[03:25 - 09:45]

• Ancient Beginnings:
  • Avocados date back 12,000 years; cultivated by Aztecs, called agato ("testicle").
  • Spanish conquistadors encountered piles of avocados in markets; spread via the Caribbean and colonial agriculture.
• U.S. Introduction:
  • Dr. Henry Perrine planted first trees in Florida (1833); real commercial boom began after the introduction of Cuban seeds in early 1900s.
  • California industry launched with Judge R.B. Ord’s import of Mexican seedlings (1871).
• Varieties and Prices:
  • Fuerte avocado survived the 1913 freeze, becoming the dominant variety.
  • Avocados were always a luxury: “In 1905, avocados sold for 30 to 50 cents a piece when the average worker made about 22 cents an hour. So eating one was like buying a luxury item.” — Jessica Wynn [06:00]
• The Hass Legacy:
  • A mailman-turned-horticulturist, Rudolph Hass, patented the “Hass” avocado (1935): “Today 95% of avocados worldwide are Hass.” — Jessica Wynn [06:50]
• Marketing Triumph:
  • California grower associations rebranded avocados for the American market, settling on “avocado” after debate (“alligator pear” was rejected).

2. Avocado Mania and Pop Culture

[09:19 - 09:55]

• The 2010s' Instagram surge:
  • “In 2013, at the height of the avocado craze, Instagram was getting 3 million new photos of avocado toast every single day.” — Jessica Wynn [09:19]
  • Social media, hashtags (#avocadolove, #avocadoporn), and cultural cachet fueled the “clean eating” and brunch movements.

3. The Dark Side: Cartels, Corruption, and Violence

[09:55 - 18:31]

• Cartel Involvement:
  • The sharp rise in profitability drew Mexican drug cartels into the trade after the U.S. opened its market in 1997 via NAFTA.
  • "So the boom made avocados so profitable that drug cartels got involved... some of those same cartels control the trade." — Jessica Wynn [09:55]
  • Cartels like Los Zetas and Jalisco New Generation diversified from drugs to avocados: “Avocados were safer than drugs and nearly as profitable.” — Jessica Wynn [11:42]
• Extortion and Violence:
  • Farmers face “protection” payments, violence, displacement, and murder for non-compliance.
  • “Farmers describe waking up to death threats carved into their avocado trees.” — Jessica Wynn [14:51]
  • Many abandon land, entire communities flee, and the term “blood avocado” echoes the concept of blood diamonds [15:37].

4. Systemic Failures and Invisible Suffering

[16:10 - 31:38]

• Impact is felt mainly at the production level: migration pressures rise as communities are pushed out; ecological and human exploitation intertwine.
• Journalists and activists attempting to uncover the truth face life-threatening risks and censorship by murder.
  • "Covering cartel extortion and corruption tied to avocados, it puts reporters directly in the line of fire." — Jessica Wynn [27:50]
• Communities sometimes form self-defense militias (“auto defensas”) to fight cartels, with rare but inspiring victories (e.g., Shehron, Mexico).

5. Labor and Environmental Impact

[31:38 - 38:19]

• Majority of avocado pickers face poor conditions; low pay, little bargaining power, and widespread child labor.
• “The people picking our avocados can't even afford a side of guac themselves.” — Jordan Harbinger [31:38]
• Massive deforestation in Michoacan—over 700,000 acres lost—often through illegal land grabs and arson, displacing crucial species (like monarch butterflies) and harming water resources.
• "80% of avocado orchards were planted illegally in previously native forests... legalized through cartel corruption." — Jessica Wynn [35:54]

6. Regulation, Labels, and Consumer Confusion

[41:38 - 47:43]

• “Sustainably sourced” or “Fair Trade” labels are vulnerable to misuse; enforcement is weak.
  • “Fair Trade helps, but it's not green magic.” — Jordan Harbinger [47:15]
• The eco/water footprint is huge: “It takes about 300 liters of water to produce just two or three avocados.” — Jessica Wynn [41:58]
• U.S. and EU trade agreements lack mechanisms to combat violence or corruption; regulatory authority (like the USDA) is increasingly toothless.

7. Industry Marketing vs. Reality

[32:31 - 34:50]

• Avocado popularity engineered through marketing campaigns—“healthy fats,” mascots like “Mr. Ripe Guy,” and integrations with cultural events (e.g., Super Bowl, Cinco de Mayo).
• “They rebranded from suspiciously oily fruit to heart healthy heroes.” — Jordan Harbinger [33:18]

8. Consumer Options and The Illusion of Choice

[46:56 - 55:53]

• Even fair trade and responsible certifications reach only a fraction of total production; most avocados remain “greenwashed.”
• Alternatives (lab-grown avocados, chickpea/hummus spreads) might become necessary as drought and climate change threaten supply.
• “Eating is a crime scene. It’s like cartels are basically running a whole narco grocery aisle.” — Jordan Harbinger [53:17]

9. Conclusion: Globalization’s Hidden Cost

[54:33 - End]

• Corruption is baked into global supply chains; the root problem is failed governance, not just misguided consumer choices.
• “Avocados are just one example of a booming business coexisting with corruption and abuse.” — Jessica Wynn [54:59]
• The paradox: Avocados symbolize health and sustainability, yet also embody violence and environmental collapse.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On History & Naming:

  • "All these years we've been eating testicle toast." — Jordan Harbinger [03:51]

• On Value:

  • “In 1905, avocados sold for 30 to 50 cents a piece when the average worker made about 22 cents an hour. So eating one was like buying a luxury item.” — Jessica Wynn [06:00]

• On Cartels:

  • “Farmers' profits in Mexico jumped from 2½ pesos per kilo to 80 pesos. I mean, that kind of money drew not only new farms but also the attention of drug cartels.” — Jessica Wynn [11:07]
  • “Avocados were safer than drugs and nearly as profitable.” — Jessica Wynn [11:42]

• On "Blood Avocados":

  • “Locals call them blood avocados.” — Jessica Wynn [15:37]
  • "Blood avocado, sounds like something from a marketing pitch meeting just gone very wrong." — Jordan Harbinger [15:37]

• On Environmental Impact:

  • “It takes about 300 liters of water to produce just two or three avocados.” — Jessica Wynn [41:58]
  • “Deforestation is staggering... Michoacan lost 700,000 acres... 80% of avocado orchards were planted illegally in previously native forests.” — Jessica Wynn [35:54]

• On Greenwashing:

  • "We did an episode on greenwashing. That was episode 599. So Fair Trade helps, but it's not green magic." — Jordan Harbinger [47:15]

• On Governance and Blame:

  • “Corruption and exploitation are baked into global supply chains, in some places way more than others... So it's not about consumer choices, it's about weak, defective governance and cultural issues.” — Jordan Harbinger [54:33]

• On the Awkward Irony:

  • “The irony is brutal. The symbol of healthy food is also a symbol of violence and environmental collapse.” — Jordan Harbinger [55:53]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:25–09:00] — Avocado origins, naming, and U.S. industry development
• [09:55–18:31] — Cartel infiltration and "narco agriculture" explained
• [18:31–31:38] — Violence, migration, and journalist risks
• [31:38–38:19] — Labor conditions, child labor, and deforestation impacts
• [41:38–47:43] — Labeling confusion, certification loopholes, and consumer traps
• [46:56–55:53] — Market alternatives, global scale of cartel influence, and the case for real supply chain reform
• [55:53–End] — Closing reflections: lessons about food, ethics, and global capitalism

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Final Takeaway

“The question isn’t whether you can live without avocados. It’s whether we can build food systems that aren’t so vulnerable to all of this bad stuff.” — Jessica Wynn [56:00]

Avocados are more than a trending food—they’re emblematic of the hidden costs within our global food system. If we care about environment, human rights, or the future of our food, this episode challenges us to look harder at where our brunch culture comes from—and whether change is possible.

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For further reading, listen to past episodes on similar topics:

• Bananas (Ep. 1125)
• Coffee (Ep. 1185)
• Greenwashing (Ep. 599)

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Suggestions for future Skeptical Sunday topics? Email [e-mail]

Transcript

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[B]

welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today, I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co host, writer and researcher Jessica Wynn on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker, and during the week we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers. On Sundays, though, it's Skeptical Sunday. A rotating guest co host and I are going to break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as the lottery, diet, supplements, recycling, chemtrails, crystal healing and more. If you're new to the show or you want to tell your friend about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion, negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults, and more that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordan harbinger.com start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today on the show, we're talking about avocados. That's right. The fruit that ruins brunch prices, clogs Instagram feeds, and somehow convinces us that it's normal to pay $15 for toast. It's just that good. But behind the memes and the guacamole bowls, there's a darker story. When you order that sign of avocado, it's less likely farm to table and more likely cartel to cafe. To help find out what that additional $2 avocado option is really paying for, is writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. Hey, Jess. So I love avocados. Are you going to tell me I shouldn't be eating them? Because we've already, you know, we've ruined, like, coffee and quite a few other crowd favorites.

[C]

I know. Well, nutritionally, avocados are terrific, but this isn't about health benefits. A lot happens before that avocado ends up on your toast.

[B]

Before you ruin everyone's guacamole. Give me the basics. Where do avocad actually come from?

[C]

So avocado roots go back at least 12,000 years. Archeological evidence shows indigenous Mesoamerican communities managed avocado orchards centuries before Europeans arrived. The Aztecs cultivated them and called them agato, which literally translates to testicle.

[B]

All right. There's so many jokes in there. Yeah, yeah. So all of these. All these years we've been eating testicle toast. That would never have gone as well. Actually, it probably. Yeah, no, it would have gone viral. That would have done.

[C]

Well, it kind of sounds like a threat, like you're not just toast, you're test. But the name aside, the fruit was highly valued. Spanish conquistadors wrote home about seeing piles of avocados in the markets of Tenochtitlan, which is Mexico City today. From there, avocados spread through the Caribbean and into colonial agriculture. By the 19th century, they reached the US through Florida.

[B]

So some guy tried this wrinkly green fruit named after his balls and thought, like, America needs this in bulk.

[C]

Pretty much. And that guy was Dr. Henry Perrine, an amateur horticulturist who planted the first avocado trees in Florida in 1833. His grafting techniques laid the groundwork for commercial production later. But after his death in 1840, the cultivation, it stalled. Nobody really picked it up until Cuban seeds reintroduced the fruit back into Florida in the early 1900s.

[B]

So Florida was our first supplier. Some things never change, I guess.

[C]

Right, Right. Until California's industry took off. The first California trees were planted in 1850, but the real breakthrough came in 1871 when Judge R.B. ord, he brought seedlings from central Mexico to Santa Barbara, and those flourished and launched California's avocado industry. By the early 1900s, multiple varieties were being cultivated, but the most important was the fuerte, brought from Mexico in 1911. But in 1913, there was this devastating freeze that wiped out almost every tree except the fuerte. And that survival made it the dominant variety for decades.

[B]

The fuerte is still really popular. I had no idea that they're such. Those are some tough avocados.

[C]

Yeah, I know. And they were expensive. In 1905, avocados sold for 30 to 50 cents a piece when the average worker made about 22 cents an hour. So eating one was like buying a luxury item.

[B]

Ah, so it was always bougie. Again, some things never change. It's kind of funny. Is it? I didn't realize that.

[C]

Yeah, but. And the total game changer came from. From Rudolf Haas. He was a mailman in Los Angeles, and he bought a small grove in the 1920s. I guess mailmen were living large back then.

[B]

Yeah, man, like I just walk around delivering letters and look at my estates.

[C]

Look at my. Yes, look at my groves. But he grafted a single tree, and that became the hass avocado. It was creamier, nuttier, easier to ship. It was more durable, and it could hang on the tree longer. So he patented it in 1935, and today 95% of avocados worldwide are hoss.

[B]

You know, now that I think about it, my mailman in Ann Arbor, Michigan, did grow his own weed. So maybe it's sort of a common side hustle for mailman to be part time horticulturalists, if you can say that.

[C]

They're outside all day. They like gardening.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. America's favorite fruit comes from a SoCal mailman. That man. I just thought avocados were kind of more exotic somehow. You know, they. I thought they would be imported all the time. And I didn't think Rudolph, boring, L.A. mailman. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being a mailman in L. A. I'm just saying, like, I didn't expect that to be the Genesis of our avocado obsession.

[C]

Yeah. And Haas became the global standard. His Haas variety, like I said, it could hang on the tree longer without spoiling, so its flavor was richer than those bigger, you know, the bright green Florida avocados. And they were just easier to ship. So this is all why most avocados you buy today look and taste the same, no matter where you are in the world.

[B]

They have that also in common with testicles. So while House was out there. Let that sink in. So while House was out there grafting his miracle tree, the industry itself started organizing.

[C]

Yeah. And in 1915, California growers formed the California Agate Association. And their big concern was avoiding the mistakes that citrus farmers had made and educating Americans about this strange new fruit. So they even debated on the name aguacate. Should it be aguacate? Some people called it alligator pears, but they actually held a vote, and they voted on avocado.

[B]

I feel like alligator pear was kind of a missed opportunity.

[C]

I know. That's such a great name. It is, but there's actually a lot of restaurants by that name these days, so it's not completely lost. And it was the term used in Florida and Jamaica before 1915, but the name was standardized when the associations and marketers finally settled on avocado because they thought it would sell better.

[B]

Well, did they split test it? I don't know. One mailman's hobby, and now it's all over my Instagram feed. Such a crazy popular food, especially for a green food. You know, you think, like, green stuff, not that interesting. Maybe that's why it's successful. It's like something green that you actually, actually want to eat.

[C]

That is delicious. Yeah. And then, you know, in 2013, at the height of the avocado craze, Instagram was getting 3 million new photos of avocado toast every single day. Hashtags like, hashtag avocado love and hashtag avocado porn. It just turned this humble fruit into, like, a cultural icon.

[B]

Yikes. Don't search avocado porn outside of Instagram. I feel like that could go sideways. Basically, food only fans. That's fun. What's the. What's the problem, then?

[C]

Well, behind all the fun and hashtags, there's a dark spot. So the boom made avocados so profitable that drug cartels got involved. And today, most hass avocados actually come from Mexico, and some of those same cartels control the trade.

[B]

Wait, cartels are connected to guacamole?

[C]

They are. It's just the reality of globalization. So avocado imports were banned in the US until 1997. And when NAFTA opened the US border to Mexican avocados, they just flooded in. But only michoacan Mexico qualified because it's the only state that met USDA sanitary standards. But production exploded. Michoacan avocados poured in and americans had year round supply for the first time. So between 97 and 2021, avocado output grew over 200% and the industry's value skyrocketed more than 7,000%.

[B]

That's less like agriculture and more like cryptocurrency or cocaine or something like that.

[C]

It was a gold rush. Yeah, you know, farmers profits in Mexico jumped from two and a half pesos per kilo to 80 pesos. I mean, that kind of money drew not only new farm but also the attention of drug cartels.

[B]

So Clinton opens trade and the cartels say, thanks, we'll take it from here. Basically, yeah.

[C]

Right. And the cartels, they operate like multinational corporations. So they slide into new markets, they exploit weak institutions, and they use violence as a business tool.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So when u. S. Policy cracked down on narco trafficking, Cartels just diversified. And avocados were safer than drugs and nearly as profitable.

[B]

That is a very different scarface movie. Michelle pfeiffer in the jacuzzi, guacamole smeared all over her face.

[C]

Oh God, I'd like to think she could pull that off.

[B]

Yeah, a little bit on the nose, you know, just like little, little dangler. I would hate to be supporting drug cartels by consuming avocados. Maybe I should stop buying cocaine. I don't know. What do you think? That would balance everything out.

[C]

That just fixes the problem.

[B]

That's right. Yeah.

[C]

You and your blow. I don't know. It might be just as bad as you and your green. I'm not sure.

[B]

Yeah, I don't smuggle cocaine any. Smuggle that green gold.

[C]

Oh, gross. But. So los zetas were the first cartel to extort producers in the late 90s. Today it's the jalisco new generation cartel. And there have been several in between. So I'm not exactly sure how cartel territory works, But I do know the cartels developed branding strategies Controlling which fruit left michoacan, Ensuring every crate was taxed.

[B]

Nobody saw that one coming from deregulated trade. So the war on drugs pushed cartels into avocados. Wow. I'm guessing no one pictured that ending with extortion rackets and michoacan and other places.

[C]

Definitely not But Michoacan quickly became the center of avocado production. And the same drug cartels that once trafficked all your cocaine, they saw a new opportunity. And these cartels aren't addicted to drugs. They're addicted to the power, the money. So who cares what they're actually trafficking, Right? And so substitute any product you want. Cartels treat violence as a form of power, not just a means to money, but just an end in itself. And avocados are part of a broader trend economists call narco agriculture, where cartels exploit these legal crops just like they once exploited cocaine or heroin.

[B]

Labu boos heroin. Avocado. As long as making a profit so the commodity is now legal. That's kind of impressive for a change, right? They just go into legal stuff. I mean, I guess they're going into it in an illegal way.

[C]

It could be upstanding farmers, but I guess that's boring. And this pays really well because they know how to control the market. And by the mid-2000s, cartels demanded farmers pay protection fees. So packers and exporters are shaken down. Trucks get taxed at roadblocks. Cartels clear pine forests, then legalize the land through bribery. Corruption and intimidation just permeate every level of the supply chain.

[B]

And what if you don't pay? You get a bad Yelp review written in bullets? I guess.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, refusal to pay the cartels often means kidnapping, assault, or worse. Yeah.

[B]

So every time Americans dip into guac at a Super bowl party, Meshwa Khan sees a spike in homicides. Damn that. This is crazy.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, that might not be an exaggeration. So farmers describe waking up to death threats carved into their avocado trees. Or cartel members knocking on their door demanding quote, unquote, rent for the land that their family has farmed for generations.

[B]

So if you're a farmer in Michoacan, what happens if you just say, screw it, I'm out of here?

[C]

Well, that's exactly what a lot of people do. So entire indigenous groups have been forced off their land by cartels. Families leave because it's too dangerous. One small avocado grower told reporters he had to sell his orchards and move after refusing to pay. Others don't get that chance. They're kidnapped or killed. Locals call them blood avocados.

[B]

Blood avocado Sounds like something from a marketing pitch meeting just gone very wrong.

[C]

Oh, well. But it is like a blood diamond. In some ways, avocados look beautiful and harmless to the consumer. But hide these stories of violence, extortion, and Human suffering. You know, with diamonds, it was rebel militants in West Africa. With avocados, it's cartels. In Mexico, it's like different commodities, same mechanics.

[B]

Well, nobody ever mentions cartel violence when it comes to avocados. They just complain when they're not perfectly ripe or whatever.

[C]

That's the problem. The violence is invisible to the consumer. This is like when we discussed bananas in episode number 1125, and we talked about coffee in episode 1185. It's just, the further away from home our food comes, the less chance we are thinking of its origins and impact. Which is ironic, because the avocado boom has become another push factor for migration. So families who farmed corn or beans, they get caught in the crossfire of cartel taxes, land grabs, and fights over water. And when their orchards are stolen or their water runs out, they leave. And reports show this is a direct line between US Avocado demand and migration pressures at our border.

[B]

How can I think about my food that way? The irony is staggering. Our demand feels the displacement that sends people north, and it's kind of a loop or a cycle. And somehow, despite all of that, this industry, it keeps on growing. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, that's the paradox. I mean, normally, organized crime chokes business, but in Michoacan, avocado production expanded alongside the violence. So this US Obsession with the superfruit fueled demand no matter what. And between 2016 and 2021, as avocado exports soared, the homicide rate in Michoacan more than doubled. Farmers, journalists, and activists were all targeted. So there's clear evidence the Mexican avocado market's exponential growth has been accompanied by these rising levels of violence from the Avocado mafia.

[B]

The Avocado mafia. Sounds like something my kids would watch

[C]

on YouTube as cute little animated avocados.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Yeah. Not. Not that cute, though. I mean, and it's not just killings. Farmers have been kidnapped, tortured, intimidated, journalists and activists silenced. And once cartels realized how lucrative avocados were, they began treating them like any other controlled market. And the people who suffered most are the legal producers. Their profits just siphoned off by cartels.

[B]

Hold on. So let's talk specifics. How does this work? How do cartels have the ability to continue this extortion racket for so long?

[C]

It's because it's working. So US Imports smoothed out the volatility. Michoacan became the avocado capital of the world, producing a third of global supply. That's about two and a half billion pounds of avocados per year.

[B]

Wow. With all this violence in cartel taxed shipments, shouldn't avocados be ridiculously expensive? Shouldn't they be like 20 bucks each?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, the violence is baked into the price. So the American consumer benefits from cheap avocados precisely because the risks and costs are pushed on to the farmers and workers in Mexico. That's why economists call it a perverse system. The bloodier it gets down there, the more stable and affordable it looks up here.

[B]

We interrupt this regularly scheduled moral crisis to remind you that not everything green is tainted by violence. This ad break right here, completely cartel free. No middlemen with machetes, no extortion, taxes. Just us, you and the slow realization that brunch might be bloodier than Breaking Bad. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Simplisafe. I would turn my house into Fort Knox if Jen would let me. Moat drawbridge guy in chainmail on the front porch. Subtle. Not really practical for a school drop off. Also no. So instead I choose Simplisafe to secure my home and family. Because most traditional security systems alert you after a break in has already started and it's kind of too late by then. Simplisafe is built to help stop crime before it starts. Using the outdoor camera Series 2 and advanced AI alerts, SimpliSafe's US based live agents can identify threats on your property and help deter them before an intruder even gets inside. Simplisafe gives us real peace of mind without turning the house into some kind of bunker. Setup is easy. The system is simple to use. There are no long term contracts because I want security, not a second mortgage made out of paperwork. Plus, monitoring and deterrence plans start at around a dollar a day. We want you to experience the same peace of mind we do right now. You can get 50% off your new system by visiting SimpliSafe.com Jordan that's half [e-mail] Jordan there's no safe like Simplisafe. This episode is also sponsored by the Perfect Jean. There are jeans you wear because they look good and jeans you wear because they're comfortable. Historically, those have been two separate pairs of jeans. That's why we like the Perfect Jean, aptly named. They look sharp, classic denim. They feel way closer to sweats though. You can sit, bend, move around, chase kids, sit through a long dinner, survive a graduation ceremony in a folding chair, all without silently negotiating with your waistband. And they actually fit real bodies, not a catalog model who doesn't eat carbs. Kind of body A real body. The perfect jean has waist from 26 to 52, lengths from 26 to 38. Multiple fits, tons of washes. You can find the pair that works for you without immediately budgeting for a tailor. They're comfortable right out of the box. They hold their shape. They don't have that stiff, crunchy denim feeling that makes you question the life choices that led to the pants in the first place. Our listeners get 15% off their first order, plus free shipping at ThePerfectGene NYC or Google the Perfect Gene and use code JORDANHARBINGER15 for 15% off. Again, our listeners get 15% off their first Order, plus free shipping at ThePerfectGene NYC or Google the Perfect Gene and Use Code JORDANHARBINGER 15 for a 15% off. Don't forget about our newsletter. We Bit Wiser comes out just about every Wednesday. Very practical. It's a two minute read, something you can apply right away that will improve your psychology, your relationships. Usually it's wisdom from the episodes here on the show. Jordanharbinger.com News is where you can find it. Now back to Skeptical Sunday. So the next time I see a product of Mexico sticker on avocados, what it really means is approved by the cartel. Pass the chips. I'm depressed over here.

[C]

I know, I know. And groups like Los Caballeros, Templarios and Los Viagras made avocado extortion a core business model. So in 2019, USDA inspectors were in Michoacan to oversee exports to the US and after canceling certification of an avocado farm, the 60 inspectors were robbed at gunpoint by the cartel called Los Viagras.

[B]

Los Viagras. That's the actual name of the gang. Why is that not scary?

[C]

Yeah, it is. It's spelled like Viagras. They styled their hair straight up with gel, hence the name. Seriously? Their hair has boners or whatever.

[B]

It's just not a scary gang rep. Like, oh no, the hair boners are coming.

[C]

I know, but they're deadly serious.

[B]

But how did the USDA respond to this assault of their inspectors? What do we do here?

[C]

We. Or they wrote a strongly worded letter and published it.

[B]

The pen is mightier than the avocado.

[C]

Yeah, I don't think so. But Los Viagras and their rival cartel, Jalisco, have violent clashes over broader issues with cartel activity. But it often affects the avocado industry. So when the letter threatened to kill the region's most profitable industry, it didn't really matter. And significant security incidents are often reported, including the assault and kidnapping of two USDA inspectors in June of 2024 while actively inspecting avocados. And all the US did in response was suspend inspections for a week, but then they resumed.

[B]

That's crazy. And I assume it's because it hurts distributors domestically. Consumers domestically. So they don't want to halt the avocado trade.

[C]

Yeah. And they only give little slaps on the Wrist. And in 2022, inspections were halted after a US inspector received death threats that also targeted his family. But the inspections come back. They always continue.

[B]

I just wouldn't have thought it was that dangerous to work for the usda. I thought the most dangerous thing they did was go to slaughterhouses, which are probably really gross and possibly also dangerous. But what exactly do they do besides that to put themselves at such risk? It just. You would think inspecting avocados would be, like, more chill.

[C]

The chill.

[B]

I guess not.

[C]

I know. Yeah. And it's not. And every single avocado that enters the United States has to be certified by inspectors from the U.S. department of Agriculture. And these inspectors are on the ground in Michoacan and other avocado regions.

[B]

Guacamole gatekeepers.

[C]

Yeah, but their job's limited, so their mandate is pest and disease prevention. They can reject a shipment if they find just one fruit fly. But they have no authority to block an avocado that's tied to illegal land or cartel extortion.

[B]

It's kind of like. Like they're the TSA of fruit.

[C]

Pretty much. And in. In 2024, after another round of threats, the US actually handed inspection authority back to the Mexican government.

[B]

Oh, that's a great idea. Hey, they threatened us. Ah, just let them do it now.

[C]

Oh, okay. Then we'll just leave. Maybe they had trouble getting inspectors down there. I don't know. But critics warned that, hey, this is going to weaken oversight, because now the people responsible for policing exports are the same ones, vulnerable to cartel intimidation. But that's what's happening as of today.

[B]

Yeah. This is like saying, hey, we can't fight this drug war. We're going to let the Mexican police do it. It's like, you mean the guys that literally help smuggle drugs for the cartels because otherwise, their whole family will get killed? Yeah. Great idea.

[C]

It's the same.

[B]

Yes. This is insane. So I. This is not an improvement for the consumer. Are any trade agreements that we have in place doing any better?

[C]

Well, nafta, which is now known as the USMCA United States, Mexico Canada Agreement, it failed to Build strong enforcement mechanisms against the cartels. So agreements like these are designed to facilitate trade, not regulate the violence or corruption behind it.

[B]

So the system is built to protect us from pests, not to protect Mexican

[C]

farmers, not to protect anyone involved.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The human rights cost is enormous. So workers get assaulted, families are displaced, inspectors harassed, and activists are silenced.

[B]

Mexico's already one of the deadliest countries for journalists, from what I know.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. And some journalists who try to cover these blood avocados were killed in February 2021. So there was a Spanish journalist and his cameraman, and they were ambushed and killed while filming a documentary about the illegal avocado trade.

[B]

Dang. So they were murdered for trying to tell this story? Basically the one we're telling, right?

[C]

Yeah. So cool. Stay inside. Yeah, but it's not isolated. Just last October, two more journalists reporting on blood avocados were killed in separate incidents in 24 hours. So covering avocados in Mexico, it's life threatening.

[B]

Yikes. I mean, should we be worried here at skeptical Sunday? Because that's terrible.

[C]

I think we're. Okay. Just let's not advertise this. And when we go to Mexico.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's really sad.

[C]

I know. But covering cartel extortion and corruption tied to avocados, it puts reporters directly in the line of fire. So local journalists in Michoacan are constantly threatened into silence. Some newspapers simply don't cover cartel activity anymore because it's just too dangerous.

[B]

Yeah, censorship by murder. And we don't hear about it because the very people who would tell us are. Are being killed for trying to tell us.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. And consumers abroad see avocados as this clean, healthy and instagramable thing, because the violent reality, it's literally hidden at the source.

[B]

We basically just see the brunch side of the story, and the real stories can't be told. Do we know what it's like for the people who actually grow the fruit, the farmers? I mean, I have no idea what farming avocados entails.

[C]

Yeah, it's brutal. I mean, in Michoacan, the cartels don't just skim profits, they control land. Land. They're displacing indigenous communities. And they sometimes force people to work orchards at gunpoint. So farmers live in constant fear. And for many small farmers, it's just unbearable. You know, some communities even formed armed self defense groups, the auto defensis, to protect their orchards.

[B]

So we're talking about farmers, moms and dads literally picking up rifles to defend their avocado orchards. From the drug cartel so that they're not enslaved by them.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And because the government can't or won't protect them, Some towns fight back. So local communities have literally taken up arms to defend their forests, water, and themselves. When cartels and big avocado interests Try to illegally encroach on land, Militias try to defend that land.

[B]

Has that made a difference at all?

[C]

In shehron, mexico, the entire community rose up in 2011. They kicked out the cartels and the corrupt officials who protected them. They had to set up barricades, had armed patrols and governed themselves. They banned commercial avocado planting in communal forests. They started reforestation and water filtration systems. But it's really dangerous for them. It's one of the few places in michoacan where the cartels don't run the avocado trade, but they're constantly on alert, you know?

[B]

Sure, yeah, that's a tough town. This is crazy. This is like the wild west. There's one enclave where the cartels are like, ah, it's too dangerous because they actually fight back and they just enslave everyone else. But yeah, they're kind of maybe waiting for their opportunity to slide back in there and scare everybody and kill a bunch of people. That's just nuts.

[C]

It is. And they're just under constant threat of fires, shootouts, turf wars over their land and water. Sheyran's an exception, though. In some other towns, Militias manage to drive the cartels out for a while, but it rarely lasts. And most of these auto defenses, they start as self defense groups, but over time, some get corrupted or even morphed into cartels themselves. It's this just endless cycle of violence, right?

[B]

Imagine your hometown turning into a vigilante war zone over fruit. What the heck, man?

[C]

I know. And the exploitation doesn't stop at violence. You know, even outside cartel areas, Avocado labor is seasonal and it's unstable. So workers deal with low pay, irregular hours, and almost no bargaining power. In some places, wages are so low, they can't afford basic food costs. And when workers try to organize, Companies often block their right to unionize.

[B]

So the people picking our avocados can't even afford a side of guac themselves. That's just nuts. That sucks, man. It's easier. Picture an avocado farm. You know, it's a place of sunshine and trees and people lovingly hand massaging guacamole into existence. But it's like a slave labor. Looks like coffee, but worse.

[C]

I mean, in california, workers Are protected, and they have access to shade and sanitation and safety gear. But it is hard work with long hours, no matter where you're doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In Mexico and Central America, it's a different story because of the cartels. Even child labor is still common in many regions, and often basic needs like clean drinking water and bathrooms are missing.

[B]

That is not the brand image the avocado industry is going for. It's a fruit based crime thriller. But avocados weren't always this popular, were they? I mean, I feel like in my lifetime, things really started to get amped up.

[C]

Yeah, it was decades of strategic marketing. So California grower associations later was called the California avocado commission. They invested heavily in advertising, and they pushed the idea that avocados weren't fatty junk, but full of healthy fats and vitamins. And for the record, avocados also have saturated fats. So this reputation of it's a healthy fat, it's really a lot of good marketing. I mean, yes, they have unsaturated fats too, but it's not this perfect side dish, you know, so. So low fat diets made Americans fear anything with fat. But the industry funded studies and PR campaigns to highlight just the healthy fats

[B]

of avocados selling science. So they rebranded from suspiciously oily fruit to heart healthy heroes.

[C]

Right? Yeah. I mean, PR firms got involved and they rolled out mascots like Mr. Ripe Guy, this cool California avocado dude with sunglasses, and they even staged contests to find Ms. Ripe. In 1995, they really put out single california avocado personal ads. Do you remember this?

[B]

So like a personal ad in the. The dating ads and newspapers, and it was like single California avocado in the back of the building.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

How quirky. I don't remember those ads at all because maybe because they didn't grow up in California, but it. We did have the California race raisins, and they would sing and dance like oldies or whatever.

[C]

Yeah, the Mr. Ripe Guy mascot, he had the exact same vibe. But I guess maybe he didn't really take off like the raisins did.

[B]

He didn't have a hit record.

[C]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, he. Maybe he wasn't a good guitar player or something, But I mean. And they also marketed versatility. So avocados in salads, in sandwiches, in dips. They tied the fruit to culture with promotions around cinco de Mayo. And the turning point in avocado popularity was when guacamole got tied to football culture and the super bowl. Suddenly there were recipe contests and Guac was this game day staple, and all those campaigns made avocados feel like part of an American tradition.

[B]

It worked, man. Guacamole is basically. It's like a required food group at every party, especially Super Bowls and stuff like that.

[C]

I know. And now we're hooked. By 2003, the Haas avocado board was created to fund research and nationwide promotions. That's why avocados became one of the most successfully marketed foods of the last century, even shadowed by the destruction of people and land.

[B]

Is the industry really also destroying the land, though?

[C]

Yeah, it is. It is. Deforestation is staggering. So between 2001 and 2018, Michoacan lost 700,000 acres, which that's about 40,000 acres each year. And 80% of avocado orchards were planted illegally in previously native forests that were later legalized through cartel corruption. So it's just deforestation on a massive scale.

[B]

And that's all avocado farming, specifically?

[C]

Yes, just avocado farming.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And in Michoacan, so what they do is forests are cleared illegally, then that land is converted to avocado orchards without government authorization. So the deforestation, it's stealth. It's hidden under the guise of what they call land use change.

[B]

Is there more to it than just trees coming down? So different trees can go up, though? I mean, it sucks. But is it. Isn't it just like replacing one tree with another?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, that would be nice, but it's much more so when forests in Michoacan or Jalisco or wherever are cleared for avocado cado orchards, it's not just the trees that disappear. You lose biodiversity.

[B]

Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

[C]

And that region is. It's critical habitat for migratory birds, even monarch butterflies on their annual journey, and pollinators that local farming depends on. So once the forest is gone, those ecosystems collapse.

[B]

I see. So our extra avocado on our burritos is bulldozing out monarchs. Yeah, Insert joke about how that's the butterfly effects. I mean, that's really awful, though, because so they're. Yeah, this is like what happens in the Amazon. We have this beautiful rainforest, but people are like, yeah, but I need places for my cows because otherwise I'm going to be poor. And so they burn it, and then the cows graze and they're like, I actually need more land now. So there's just constantly burning, slashing and burning rainforest.

[C]

Right. In some cases, they do actually burn them out. Farmers and cartels are accused of doing exactly that, deliberately setting, setting Forest fires. And then the land gets classified as degraded from fire, and then it can legally be reclassified for agriculture. So that loophole turns arson into a business strategy.

[B]

Oh, I see. That's insane. So you commit arson, you basically get a break on buying your land.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This kind of reminds me of a joke I heard the other day. So, two retired businessmen meet at a beach resort, and the first guy said, I had a hotel and it burned down. And rather than rebuilding, I just took the insurance money and I retired here. And the other guy says, yeah, similar story with me. A hurricane came, flooded my beachfront resort, and just washed the whole thing away. And instead of rebuilding that, I took the insurance money and I retired here. And the first guy goes, huh? How do you start a hurricane?

[C]

Oh, God, that's hilarious. I mean, that's not far from the truth, though, right? Yeah.

[B]

At some point, I gotta ask, where is the. I mean, this is probably a dumb question, but where's the Mexican government and all this? Who. Who's in charge?

[C]

I mean, in many cases, the cartels are, so Mexican officials at the local level, like. Like mayors, police chiefs, even military units are all complicit. Some are bribed to look the other way. Others are just directly involved. And corruption doesn't seem to be the exception. It's just part of the system.

[B]

So my avocados are in the hands of who's got the most guns and cash.

[C]

Yeah, they've got you by the alligator pears, Jordan.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the US Knows this.

[B]

Though, while you're rethinking brunch and googling ethical guacamole, let's pause for something less morally complicated. Because unlike the avocado trade, this show isn't funded by narcos or deforestation, just regular schmoes with Wi fi and questionable spending habits. We'll be right back.

[C]

Back.

[B]

This episode is sponsored in part by ZipRecruiter. Hiring is a challenge because on paper, everybody looks enthusiastic. Every candidate is, quote, excited, passionate, thrilled for the opportunity. Which is great, except sometimes that energy disappears the second they actually have to show up and do the job. According to cnbc, nearly half of hiring managers say a candidate's enthusiasm about the job is the most important factor when considering them for a role. Of course, that makes sense. Skills matter. But you also want a person who actually wants to be there. But just how can you separate the candidates who are really excited about your opportunity from the ones that are just. Meh. Zip Recruiter. They got a new feature that quickly lets you see the most interested qualified candidates first so you meet the right people faster. Their smart matching technology connects you with qualified candidates instantly, and candidates can tell you in their own words why they're interested in your job. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first and now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com Jordan that's ZipRecruiter.com Jordan meet your match on ZipRecruiter. This episode is also sponsored by Flykit. We're getting ready for a trip to Taiwan with both kids. I'm excited, but also bracing myself because we're tired. On a normal day. Add in a 13 hour flight, a 13 hour time change, and two kids who don't care what time zone we're in and jet lag is not just annoying, it's an emergency. That's why we're packing FlyKit. It's a kit plus an app that creates a personalized jet lag schedule for your trip. Trip when to take the supplements, when to wear blue light blockers, when to get light, when to caffeinate, when to nap. All to give you the best shot at beating jet lag. I was very skeptical, to say the least, when I first heard about this years ago, but after dozens of international trips, I don't travel without it. Ever. You enter your travel details. FlyKit maps out exactly what to do and when. It's based on research with of course Navy SEALs, fighter pilots and athletes, but hey, also with podcasters that are old and get tired when they travel. Anyway. It helps a lot with jet lag and the inflammation that flying can cause. I've used it on brutal time zone trips and it works every time. Go to flykit with 2t's com use code jordan for 15% off and let me know how it works for you. Thank you for listening to and supporting this show. It is your support of our advertisers that keeps the lights on around here. All of the deals, discounts and ways to support the show are searchable and clickable on the [e-mail] deals now for the rest of Skeptical Sunday. So does a label that says sustainably sourced Mexican avocado? Does that mean anything? Because I feel like I see those everywhere.

[C]

The legal framework for those kind of labels is weak. You know, the enforcement is spotty and the cartels exploit that vacuum of labeling. The orchards go in, the forests go out, and often nobody's held accountable I'm

[B]

guessing avocado orchards are thirsty because those fruits may hold a lot of water. They're oily, all that.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It takes about 300 liters of water to produce just two or three avocados.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

I know. So aquifers are drained, rivers dry up. Pesticides contaminate drinking water for many communities, and not just in Mexico. In Chile's Patorca region, rivers literally vanished because of avocado irrigation, forcing communities to rely on water that's actually trucked in while the orchards get priority irrigation.

[B]

Oh, good. So our avocado hat habit is also contributing to drought, environmental damage, and environmental injustice. So families can't shower or have a glass of water. But we've got great toast picks on Insta.

[C]

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, Peru is another case. So avocado production there expanded massively for export markets, often with little oversight, leading to similar water shortages and land conflicts. And in Kenya, avocado farming for export has created deforestation and disputes over land ownership. So it's the same dynamics. High demand, weak regulation, and vulnerable communities just repeated globally.

[B]

So all over the world, the pattern is the same.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it works. People are making money off it, and no one is really speaking out for those affected. So indigenous populations have been pushed off their land. The local standards of living decline as water disappears and forest falls. And at the same time, rising temperatures and drought make avocado farming less stable. So you have this vicious cycle of orchards contributing to climate stress while also being threatened by it. And yet demand keeps rising. From 2017 to 2021, Mexican exports nearly quadrupled.

[B]

Okay, but somebody's trying to fix this, right? In Mexico or the U.S. i mean, there are efforts.

[C]

So the USMCA trade agreement has a RAP response mechanism that lets workers file complaints about labor violations, and some have already used it against big farms. But these power structures, you know, let's be honest, they are not easily taken down.

[B]

Can't we just grow them somewhere else? You know, without drug cartels involved? I don't know. California, Florida. I mean, we probably have our own cartels, but what do I know?

[C]

No, I mean, we do grow them here, but we simply just don't have the space to produce nearly enough domestically. US demand is too massive. So today, 77% of the world's avocados are imported into the United States. Like, we love avocados.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And Mexico supplies the bulk. So from avocado toast to Taco Tuesday, America's hunger for the superfood, it just Drives the entire system. And the EU joins in a bit, too. From 2017 to 2021, there's Mexican exports to Europe, also, nearly quadrupled.

[B]

So America and Europe get guac. Mexico gets cartels, violence, deforestation.

[C]

Yes, and that is the imbalance. Some farmers do benefit, but much of the wealth, it just all goes to the cartels.

[B]

What about avocados listed as fair trade? I've seen those labels. Are those real? Do they help? Does that help at all?

[C]

It can, but only to a point, because it's just complicated. For farmers and certified cooperatives, fair trade provides stability. They get a guaranteed minimum price, which protects them from wild swings in the market. And on top of that, they get a fair trade premium that goes into a community fund. Farmers then can vote on how to use that money. And villages have used it to build schools, fund health care, even train people in different income streams that are untouched by cartels, like beekeeping.

[B]

Okay, that seems like a positive.

[C]

Yeah, sure. I mean, it has the potential to empower farmers and give them collective bargaining power, but that's if you can get certified. So certification also enforces environmental standards like better water management, responsible pesticide use, and sometimes investments in green farming alternatives.

[B]

And the catch is? Because that all sounds great, but I'm guessing. And there's a catch.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, there's several issues. So certification is expensive and bureaucratic if you can get it. And the smallest farmers, the ones that are most vulnerable to cartels, they're usually shut out. That means fair trade only reaches a fraction of producers. And even when farmers do qualify, the premiums often aren't enough to make any real lasting change.

[B]

Okay, so even the good guys are outnumbered by the scale of the industry.

[C]

Yeah, right. And most avocados. Avocados just aren't certified at all. So some companies still use words like sustainable, while their supply chains are linked to deforestation or cartels. And this kind of greenwashing is common because the avocado market is just that massive.

[B]

Yeah, we did an episode on greenwashing. That was episode 599. So Fair Trade helps, but it's not green magic.

[C]

Not at all. You know, other models are emerging, though. There are direct trade relationships with cooperatives, and there are boutique certifications like Rainforest alliance and a new pro forest avocado label that's designed specifically to combat illegal logging.

[B]

Sounds good, but is any of this actually working?

[C]

I mean, it's a start. Those organizations are so small, though. Pro forest certification was launched specifically in response to deforestation, just in Mexico. But it only certifies growers who haven't cleared any forest for avocado orchards. So the idea is to rebuild consumer trust and separate responsible producers from cartel tide production. But without enforcement and consumer pressure, it won't scale fast enough.

[B]

Okay, so we, the brunch eaters, still have some power, I guess, but it

[C]

would take massive awareness campaigns all over to get people to choose certified products and put push retailers for transparency.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Consumer pressure can move an industry, but it has to be a really big coordinated effort. And governments have to enforce regulations. So consumer advocacy groups have taken companies to court for misleading labels.

[B]

I guess it's probably hard to sue a drug cartel though, right?

[C]

I mean, I would imagine. And in 2024, the organic consumers association actually sued major importers like Colava Mission and Fresh Del Monte for greenwashing. They were advertising Mexican avocados as sustainable, even though the supply chains were directly tied to deforestation, human rights abuses, and cartel extortion. But that's still tied up in the courts.

[B]

So the cartels aren't just wrecking cash flow, they're wrecking communities, infrastructure, jobs, and education, every. Everything. At this point, the only thing the labels reliably tell you is that this came from Mexico.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it does feel like everything on our shelves and menus is just marketing spin sometimes.

[B]

Yeah. It sounds like avocados are going to keep being green gold for cartels then.

[C]

Unfortunately, I think so. There are some trade reforms, but they're easy to get around. The EU has regulations banning imports tied to deforestation, but that gets complicated. I think demand will just continue to fuel destruction. So the avocado is like a perfect case study in globalization's hidden costs.

[B]

And the actual costs for avocados has always been high.

[C]

Always. Avocado prices do fluctuate significantly and are most linked to the Mexican avocado supply. So some typical things like weather, drought, heat waves, things that cause lower production can affect costs, cost, but it's really just the sheer demand the world has for avocados that will keep the price pretty steady.

[B]

Will that always be the case? You know, ten years from now, will we still have to pay two bucks for a side or whatever? Three. Or is climate change going to lower production to the point where we can't even get them? You know, like how we're not going to have sushi in 50 years, basically, unless it's grown in a lab.

[C]

Yeah, right. I mean, California is already struggling with low production, so the state's avocado production is projected to shrink drastically some Growers are just pulling out trees altogether because of worsening droughts and wildfires and all the water rationing problems in California.

[B]

Yeah, it's a Chinatown. So without California, it's just Mexico and a lot of cartel tax.

[C]

Unless something changes. I mean, researchers are experimenting. People aren't going to like this, but researchers are experimenting with alternatives like lab grown or synthetic avocados. Food scientists are trying to replicate avocado texture and flavor using peas, oil and natural flavoring.

[B]

Fake guacamole. That's. That's a different kind of organized crime right there.

[C]

I know, I know. Even talking about it kind of makes me nauseous. But it's an option. I mean, some people are pushing substitute crops. So chayote squash can mimic the creaminess hummus from chickpeas, gives you the protein and healthy fat. Even pea or sunflower seed spreads can fill the gap.

[B]

Sure. Until we've got chickpea cartels and pea kingpins. Those. I mean, let's just hope those foods get some decent management and a better and a good PR team.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know if the super bowl party's ready for pea spread, but pokamole. Yeah, right, pokamole. That's good. I mean, that's the challenge is consumer behavior. So. So the US is addicted to avocados. And even if awareness of cartel violence and environmental destruction grows, some people may switch to alternatives. But realistically, most consumers don't want to give up their guac.

[B]

Yeah, you're probably right. So what do we do? How can we live without avocados?

[C]

Avocados are sold as a superfood, and they have nutritious qualities, but they're easily replaced. We don't need avocados as a staple. Yes, avocados are high in folate, vitamin K, but you can get that from lentils, broccoli, sunflower seeds, and olive oil.

[B]

All of that sounds like it would be so good with some avocado on top. Right?

[C]

I know, I know. That'd be a good salad. Unfortunately, once cartels realized how profitable farming could be, they locked into a lot of our favorite foods, not just avocados. So they extort nearly every legal market market, lime growers, strawberry farmers, papaya orchards. They've muscled into timber, even iron ore and oil. So if something makes money, cartels want a cut.

[B]

Eating is a crime scene. It's like cartels are basically running a whole narco grocery aisle. That's nuts.

[C]

I know. And I mean, if there's money to be made, the cartels tax it it's like a parallel government. So whatever you buy in the supermarket, it. A cartel probably took a cut of that.

[B]

So my margarita's dirty too. Limes, tequila, guac. It's a whole narco happy hour. The whole don't buy avocados, you're funding cartels argument, that kind of misses the point because, you know, people will say, like, oh, we're blaming the American drug users for the drug problems in the drug cartels. And it's like, okay, so are you also blaming the global demand for avocados for your drug cartels? Because they're also operating there too. So even if you cut everything out of your life, it just doesn't fit the systemic corruption that's down there in Mexico. And it's. This seems to be twofold. Individuals versus corporations, and the conflicting values between countries trading with each other.

[C]

And yeah, the hypocrisy is wild, for sure. I mean, it's just classic capitalism. So, hey, it's up to you to recycle the plastic bottles that corporations make billions of each year. It's up to you not to get hooked on the highly addictive of foods and drugs that are shoved in your face every day that are terrible for

[B]

you, but, you know, yeah, again. And people will, like, blame. They'll be like, oh, if you guys didn't use drugs, we wouldn't have drug cartels. Clearly that's not true because. And by that logic, you couldn't buy anything. Corruption and exploitation are baked into global supply chains, in some places way more than others. So it's not about consumer choices. It's about weak, defective governance and cultural issues. So, yeah, don't tell me to boycott guacamole when the real problem goes untouched.

[C]

Yeah, I know. And performative ethics, even if it works occasionally, is just trending outrage until the next thing comes along. And there's always the next thing. So avocados are just one example of a booming business coexisting with corruption and abuse. The supply chain isn't just just farms and trucks. It's cartels running protection rackets, illegal logging, land grabs, bribes, human rights abuses, taxation of every crate of food. And if the world cares about climate and environmental crime, Mexico's avocado industry should be the test case for whether the food industry can actually reform itself. So the lesson here is bigger than guacamole. It's a big about how fragile our global supply chains are when the governance fails.

[B]

I see. The irony is brutal. The symbol of healthy food is also a symbol of violence and environmental collapse.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, so the question isn't whether you can live without avocados, it's whether we can build food systems that aren't so vulnerable to all of this bad stuff. I just want to say here, I really want to apologize to everyone for this smear because I also love my avocados.

[B]

Yeah, man. Well, on that note, thank you Jess. Way to ruin a perfectly good meal. And thank you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to me Jordanordanharbinger.com, advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the [e-mail] deals I'm JordanHarbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Jessica on her multiple substats between the lines and where shadows linger. We'll link to those in the show notes as well. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. I might be a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. Also, we try to get these episodes as right as we can. Not everything is gospel, even if it is fact checked. So consult a professional before applying anything you hear on the show show, especially if it's about your health and well being. And remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love. If you found this episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time. Remember when Google actually gave you useful results, Facebook felt fun and Amazon didn't feel like a scam filled maze. Cory Doctorow explains how tech platforms slowly trap users, squeeze businesses, and eventually cannibalize themselves, a process he calls inshittification.

[A]

It's not just that companies become too big to fail and we bail them out. Although that's happening. It's not just they become too big to jail, but they become too big to care. These companies, they eliminated the competition and you know, they and their advisors, you know, the economists who said monopolies are good and efficient, they're today just absolved of all responsibility. You tell an economist the 40 years you spent briefing for the efficiency of monopolies are the reason that we're all getting screwed today. But they're like, how can you be so sure my pro monopoly policies are in some way connected to the monopolies that are destroying our lives. The inshydogenic policy environment is what created this. We warned them at the time they did it anyway. So you have Amazon that has done some admirable things as is Facebook, right? Facebook was fun. Google was a great search engine. Apple made very beautiful and well behaved devices, right? But they want you to think that there is no way you could get the benefit benefit without enduring the costs, that those costs are intrinsic. So I think we have to lay the blame at the feet of people who worked for us who were warned at the time that their pet theories were going to create this in shitticine where everything turns to shit. Who did it anyway? And today a lot of these guys are collecting six figure consulting fees and polishing their fake Nobel prizes in economics and being lauded as great figures of history. Like we have to remember that it's them. Not just so that we can take it out of their hobby hide, but so that we can make sure that in the future no one like them ever gets their hands near the levers of power. They do evil for the same reason your dog licks its balls. Because they can.

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