1356: Tipflation | Skeptical Sunday

Summary

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The Jordan Harbinger Show — Episode 1356: Tipflation | Skeptical Sunday

Date: July 12, 2026
Hosts: Jordan Harbinger & Michael Regilio (comedian, skeptic, and ex-waiter)

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Overview

This episode of Skeptical Sunday takes a deep dive into "tipflation"—the growing expectations around tipping in America. Harbinger and Regilio unpack the origins of tipping, why it has become omnipresent (even extending beyond traditional restaurant settings), and the psychology that keeps the system going, despite nearly everyone hating it. The episode balances humor, history, economics, and psychology, challenging the current tipping model and highlighting its uncomfortable roots and consequences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Modern Day Tip Fatigue and the Pressure Cooker (03:46–06:36)

• The Annoyance of iPads Prompting Tips:
  Tipping prompts now appear at coffee shops, fast-casual counters—and even from robots (06:28–06:36). Both hosts share moments where the technology—and the person operating it—makes refusing to tip uncomfortable for customers.

  “Everywhere you go, someone’s shoving an iPad at you.” – Michael Rogilio (03:46)

• Emotional Blackmail & Social Pressure:
  Even hosts who are skeptical of tipping are swayed by the fear of being judged.

  “I still feel that pressure...I don’t want to look like a dick.” – Jordan (04:24)

2. The Awkward Expansion of Tipping (06:36–07:49)

• Robot Baristas Asking for Tips:
  The absurdity when robots now request gratuities after transactions.
• Tipping for Online Orders & Unconventional Services:
  Tipping is now expected for things like packing an online order—a sharp contrast to traditions overseas.

3. History & Racist Roots of American Tipping (07:49–15:59)

• Origins in Status and Hierarchy:
  Tipping originated in Tudor England as a status signal imposed by elites rather than a reward for good service (07:15–07:49).

• Arrival in America & Post-Civil War Racism:
  After the Civil War, tipping—as a practice imported from Europe—was used in the U.S. to avoid paying Black workers real wages (11:13–12:39).

  “It was one of several ways that America tried to maintain slavery.” – Michael Rogilio (11:22)

  • The Pullman Porters:
    Black porters on Pullman trains were expected to live off tips alone, sometimes even paying for their own uniforms (13:09–14:48).
  • Societal Pushback:
    At its introduction, American society heavily disliked tipping—six states even passed laws outlawing it (16:36–16:43).

4. Tipping as Hierarchy and Coercion (16:43–25:18)

• Ralph Waldo Emerson & The Itching Palm:
  Notable critics saw tipping as undemocratic and akin to social bribery.

• A System Designed for Inequality:
  Good tippers receive better service; poor tippers are punished by staff.

  “What kind of business model are we talking about where some of your customers are intentionally treated worse?” – Michael Rogilio (18:04)

  • Memorable Story:
    Michael recalls a customer boasting about a $100 tip to impress a date—only to sheepishly ask for his money back afterward (09:27–10:53).

5. Tipping as a Means to Avoid Fair Pay (25:18–35:05)

• Business Incentives:
  Tipping allowed businesses to avoid paying workers a living wage; the burden shifted to the customer (28:34–29:51).

• The Tipped Minimum Wage Loophole:
  Even after minimum wage laws, a loophole allowed tipped workers to be paid far less—federally still just $2.13/hour as of 2026 (29:51–33:08).

  “There are only seven states that pay tip workers the state minimum wage.” – Michael (32:53)

• Corporate Profits vs. Worker Pay:
  Chain restaurant CEO wages contrasted with tip worker earnings for dramatic effect.

  “The Olive Garden made more than $5 billion in 2024, and the CEO, Richard Cardenas, made $6,700 an hour.” – Michael (34:16)

6. Why Doesn’t the Model Change? (35:12–37:06)

• Customers Prefer ‘Cheaper’ Upfront Prices:
  Studies show that psychologically, customers prefer to see a lower base price with a tip—even though the total may be the same (35:59–36:22).
• Failed Attempts at No-Tip Systems:
  High-profile experiments with “no-tip, higher wages” models (like Danny Meyer’s) flopped—both staff and customers rejected them (36:31–37:06).

7. The Psychology of Tipping (37:06–41:07)

• Why Do People Tip?

  • Social approval (not wanting to look cheap)
  • A sense of fairness/reciprocity
  • Wanting good service next time

• Key Insight:
  The biggest driver is actually the mood of the customer, not the quality of service (39:13–39:17).

• The “Halo Effect” and Discrimination:
  Attractive servers, those using personal touches or certain gestures, reliably earn more.

  “Unfortunately...an ugly person makes less tips than a good-looking person.” – Michael (39:48)

  • Research even shows that women wearing red lipstick or servers who kneel by the table get higher tips (40:14–41:07).

• Dark Side: Sexual Harassment:
  Women relying on tips report higher rates of harassment and inappropriate requests from management and customers (41:42–42:21).

8. The Game Is Rigged: Tech & Anchoring (49:03–53:29)

• Anchoring and iPad Tipping Tricks:
  Tip screens now default to higher percentages (e.g., 18%, 22%, 25%), conditioning customers to leave more, even before service is rendered (50:44–51:14).
  • Pressure is intensified by being watched as you tip and by confusing “gratuity included” lines on bills.
• iPad Tipping Spreads Everywhere:
  Gig economy jobs (Uber, DoorDash, etc.) further push tipping requests, sparking debate about fairness versus manipulation (53:29–53:40).

9. Policy, Politics & The Reality (53:40–54:52)

• Political Gymnastics:
  Both parties embrace “no tax on tips,” but it’s largely a meaningless gesture—most tip workers earn too little to owe federal income tax.

• Universal Tip Fatigue:
  Both staff and customers want something better.

  “I'm pretty sure the entire system has reached its—I'll just say it—tipping point.” – Michael (54:38)

10. The Real Problem: It's Systemic (55:11–57:25)

• Europe vs. U.S.
  European restaurants thrive without the tipping system; staff instead earn stable, higher wages.
• Big Picture:
  The hosts reject the idea that the solution is to “just stop tipping”—rather, they urge listeners to question why U.S. businesses can’t pay livable wages and why customers are manipulated and pressured at every turn.

  “The real problem is that we’ve normalized a system where wages are optional, prices are misleading, and the customer is quietly expected to make up the difference.” – Michael (56:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Social Pressure of iPad Tipping:

  “I'm not actually a dick for not tipping for something that doesn't require a tip. So, I don't know. I'm torn.” – Jordan (04:24)

• On the Racist Origins:

  “It was one of several ways that America tried to maintain slavery.” – Michael (11:22)

• On Failed Attempts to Nix Tipping:

  “...all the best servers, their best employees, the best ambassadors of their brand, they all quit and went to restaurants that did have tipping.” – Michael (48:53)

• On Anchoring and Digital Tip Creep:

  “The lowest tip is 18, and the next option is 22% and then 25%.” – Michael (51:05)

• On the Illusion of “No Tax on Tips”:

  “...over one third of tipped employees in America don’t even earn enough money to pay any income taxes at all.” – Michael (54:13)

• Closing Thought:

  “The real problem is that we’ve normalized a system where wages are optional, prices are misleading, and the customer is quietly expected to make up the difference.” – Michael (56:43)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:46 — Tip fatigue & emotional pressure to tip
• 07:15 — Tipping’s class and status-driven history
• 11:22 — Tipping's racist legacy post-Civil War
• 16:43 — Emerson on tipping’s undemocratic roots
• 29:51 — The federal subminimum wage and tipped workers
• 35:59 — Why attempts at “no-tipping” policies failed
• 39:13 — The true drivers of tipping behavior
• 41:42 — Link between tipping and harassment
• 50:44 — Anchoring: How default tip suggestions manipulate us
• 53:29 — How the gig economy multiplied tip solicitations
• 56:43 — The real problem: systemic wage shifting

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Conclusion & Call to Action

While tipflation has reached a crisis point in the U.S., it is not just the proliferation of tip screens or the social awkwardness pushing things over the edge—it’s a flawed policy ecosystem that puts the burden of worker wages on customers while maximizing company profits. Both customers and workers are ready for a more honest, ethical model, but meaningful change likely depends on systemic policy reform rather than individual choices at the register.

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For more discussion, visit the Jordan Harbinger subreddit or check out episode starter packs at jordanharbinger.com/start.

Transcript

[Jordan Harbinger]

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[Michael Rogiglio]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co host, comedian and skeptic Michael Rigilio on the Jordan Harbinger Show. We decode the stories, secrets and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes to authors, thinkers, performers. On Sundays though, it's Skeptical Sunday, a rotating guest co host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about that topic, such as tipping, acupuncture, astrology, diet pills, self help cults, bottled water, and more. If you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are Collections of some of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, Psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults, and more that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Now, tell me if this sounds familiar. You walk up to a counter, you order some food. The person taps the order into an iPad and then turns around and says, it's going to just ask you a quick question. And you think, oh, it's going to ask me a question. This inanimate iPad suddenly developed curiosity. What could it possibly want to know that you, the human being standing right here who just took my order, can't explain you took my order. You're looking at me expectantly. But now we've got to consult the iPad. What's going on here? All right, let's see the question. Ah, okay. It wants to know if I would like to tip you for what? You haven't made the food. I haven't gotten the food. We're both standing here staring at each other. So the question isn't, would I like to tip? The question is, can I predict the future? I'm sensing missing utensils, mild disappointment. And if you're one of the growing number of Americans also getting fed up with this phenomenon, you might be asking yourself, how did we get here? Why do I have to tip everyone, seemingly. And how is it acceptable that we tip before the service is even complete, Sometimes even before it begins? And more importantly, why do we even tip at all? Today, skeptic comedian and most importantly, former waiter Michael Rogelio is here to tell us 100% of what he's learned about that 15 to 25% that we're asked to part with in seemingly every dang transaction in America.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Man, I could really relate to that. The turning the iPad towards you. It's getting kind of crazy. Everywhere you go, someone's shoving an iPad at you. And I think most people can relate to that because what you're describing is called tit fatigue. And people are getting fed up with that iPad being shoved in their face everywhere they go. And let's be clear here, that iPad is far more insidious than the old tip jar after all. Just a couple crumpled bills tossed into a jar or tucked in an old school bill fold leaves a little mystery. You don't have that waiter immediately knowing and judging what you left. But the iPad. Oh, the all telling iPad. The iPad knows all.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. So the problem that I have with this. I feel that pressure sometimes, of course. And I know this is by design, right? They want you to feel like you have to tip. Hey, what do you mean you're gonna type in custom and leave $1 even though the default one is 25% or 30% for coffee? Even me, who's sitting here on this topic and requested a skeptical Sunday about this specifically because I hate tipflation. The fact that we're seeing tipping everywhere and it's going up everywhere, I still feel that pressure, like, oh, okay, I'm going to click skip because all you did was take my order and there's no table service and I'm leaving and it's a takeout thing and blah, blah, blah, and it's a cup of coffee. But I still hope that you don't notice because I don't want to look like a dick. But then I realize I'm not actually a dick for not tipping for something that doesn't require a tip. So, I don't know. I'm torn in some ways because I feel for the person behind the counter. But also, why is it my job to pay the salary of the employee if I'm not actually getting any sort of specific service from that person? I assume we're getting into all this, but now this is usually the part of the episode where we got to tell people, don't blame the server, blame the system. Because that's how I feel about it. Taking it out on the person in front of you is definitely not the move.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, sure. And if I were one of those erudite, pedantic researcher types, that would be the opening message. But, hey, like you said at the beginning, I've got 15 years of waiting tables under my belt. And I can tell you that the attitude coming from some of the people pushing the iPad at you, that's part of the problem, too. And that pressure that comes from them standing there watching you, well, that's exactly what people are getting fed up with. And we're just getting fed up with tipping.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, that's actually a pretty good. Well, have I noticed or have I imputed a little snarkiness from the iPad pushers? Sometimes they're totally fine. And I've even had people say, don't worry about it, whatever, when they flip it over. And I'm like, oh, good, we're on the same page where this is fricking awkward and we both hate this part. But another thing is just how ubiquitous it's become. I've literally been ordering Stuff online, on the Internet. And then I get asked if I want to leave a tip for the person who packs the order. Come on, man.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Oh, man.

[Michael Rogiglio]

It actually gets far worse than that. There's now cappuccino making robots that they have at certain coffee shops that will ask you for a tip.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, I don't tip robots. And since we've apparently reached the point where robots are asking you for tips, it's probably a good time to ask how the heck we even got here. How did our culture become obsessed with tipping? It's one. I have friends from all over the place, right? And they'll come visit California and they'll go explain tipping to me. And it's like. And then I have to go and just say, 15% is fine, but some places you don't have to tip. And then I have to, like, give them weird rules of thumbs. If I'm not sitting there, I don't tip. Except if it's blah, blah, blah. And then it's, but what about haircuts? And there's all these weird exceptions. Anyway, tell me how this mess all began.

[Michael Rogiglio]

How did we get here? Tipping probably began in Tudor England. Guests staying at large private homes, basically mansions, would leave small sums of money for the servants who took care of them during their stay. And it really wasn't about generosity. It was kind of about status. Like, I'm above you, you're below me. Here's a few coins to show how benevolent I am. So from the very beginning, tipping wasn't about good service. It was about signaling hierarchy. And so at that time, wealthy Americans would travel to Europe. They saw this and thought, oh, this is how rich people act. And they brought the practice back to America.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Okay? My parents, as a kid, I remember my dad leaving a couple of bucks at the end of the trip just on the dresser or the nightstand for the hotel maids, the cleaning staff. I don't know if anybody does that anymore. I don't do that. I don't think I've done it by accident. But I don't know anybody in my generation who tips the maids at hotels. At least not that I know, actually. If you're listening to this and you still do that, please tell me, because I don't want to be inadvertently stiffing the hotel staff if I'm actually supposed to do that. But you would think they would make it abundantly clear if they were waiting on a tip.

[Michael Rogiglio]

They are making it abundantly clear, as when I was researching this episode. There are certain hotels with the people that clean the Room will leave an envelope for you to put the tip in, like, making it very clear. It'll even have, like, a note saying, hi, my name is Sally. I clean the room. Here's a little gratuity envelope, should you choose.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow. I am staying either at the wrong hotels or the right hotels, because I don't think I've ever seen that. It's also very possible that I've completely ignored that multiple times because I'm not observant at all. But you'd think my wife would have caught on to that too, because she actually notices stuff like that. I did take a cruise, and there was a million envelopes at the end, and there was mandatory gratuity that they were automatically going to charge you, which I thought was weird. Like, maybe just include that in the price. Oh, but then the price is higher, and they can't trick you at the end by showing you what you owe all of the people that have worked with you. Anyway, this is one gripe among many. So let's be frank. Sometimes the tipping thing is still about status. I've certainly seen dude bros on dates making a big deal about a supposedly big tip they're gonna leave for a server on a date.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Oh, man. I did not want this episode to be just me telling a bunch of stories about my days of waiting tables, but now I have to tell a story that you mentioned that, because I was waiting tables in Hollywood, like, 20 years ago, and this guy came in on a first date, and he was making a very big deal about how cool he was and what a big spender he was trying to impress this woman. And at the end of the meal, he. He made a huge show of the fact that he was leaving me $100. I'm going to leave this guy $100. What do you think of that, buddy?

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

You like that?

[Michael Rogiglio]

Oh, yeah, sure. 100 bucks sounds good.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Man, that is cringy.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Oh, it gets even worse because then they went out to wait for the car at the valet, and he snuck back in, pretended he had to use the bathroom, grabbed me, and was like, hey, dude, can I get that hundred bucks back?

[Jordan Harbinger]

No way.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Wow.

[Michael Rogiglio]

He was like, come on, bro. One bro to another. I was just trying to press this woman. I don't have 100 bucks to give you. Tell you what. Keep 20.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow. That is so messed up. I'd like to think I'd be quick enough on my feet to say something like, dang, you know, we pull tips here, and I already put it into the box, and the box is Locked. I can't get it. Sorry, man. Or better, sure, yeah, I put it in my bag in the back. I'll tell you what, I'll run it out to you in a minute, and then you just go back out there to the girl directly, hand it to her and say, here's the money back that your guy friend ran in to ask for. Can you give it to him? Somebody's not getting a second date or any nookie that night for sure. That is so messed up. What a weird thing.

[Michael Rogiglio]

For one. I wish you were there at the time to have given me that advice, because I love the idea of bringing it out the woman and ruining his chances at a second date. But, yeah, let me tell you something. Tipping in general is messed up. In fact, the next historical chapter of tipping in America isn't just messed up, it's freaking racist.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Tipping is racist. I mean, it did take off after the Civil War and took off in the South. So I hate to assume, but that timing could be a little sus.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, actually, you nailed it. And it is kind of gross when you think about it, because it was one of several ways that America tried to maintain slavery.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So that's interesting, and I've heard people express that notion, but usually they're talking about the 13th amendment. Basically made it legal to have slavery as long as you first arrested a formerly enslaved person on trumped up charges, threw them in jail, and then they were kind of right back where they started, forced into performing labor. I'm not sure I've heard that tipping was a way of extending slavery, though I haven't heard it framed like that.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Okay, perhaps that's just my progressive framing. But look, after the Civil War, as previously enslaved people were joining the workforce, employers did look for a way to not pay them. Like anything, free labor.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's called slavery, I think. Yeah, but. Okay, continue.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, a whole new class of employees was born, particularly in the South. So that's where this really started. Employers paid them little to nothing. In exchange, they were allowed to solicit tips from customers. There was, of course, the culture of tenant farmers who were not paid and still beholden to the plantation owner. So this was a whole thing that was going on in the south where they were legally not allowed to have slaves anymore, but were desperately looking for a way to maintain this social hierarchy that they had built an entire economy on.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. You know what this reminds me of? You might have heard of this. There's restaurants where they don't have a liquor license, but for some reason, it Depends on the state. You can just bring booze in from outside, and they're like, whatever. You know what I'm talking about? Of course, yeah.

[Michael Rogiglio]

But then they charge you for the booze that you paid for.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's like a corkage fee. Even though you're drinking a 40 of malt liquor with your cheesesteak or something? Yeah, you can bring it in and they limit it and they charge you for it, but they're not selling you the alcohol. So it's totally fine somehow.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah. There's a lot of workarounds in particularly the 21st century American economy. And this was one of the workarounds in the 19th century economy. In fact, one example of people that pretty much started living exclusively off tips was the Pullman porters. Have you heard about them?

[Jordan Harbinger]

I feel that those are the guys, the Pullman porters. They worked on trains. Right. So they were black men who assisted essentially wealthy white people as they traveled the country. Right. Like a butler situation on a train.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, it kind of was. So the guy that started this was George Pullman. He was an engineer from Chicago. And basically he noticed the trains were incredibly noisy, crowded, uncomfortable. So he started the Pullman Car Company. And these were total luxury cars, sleeper cars, in fact, with all the amenities of, like, a nice hotel.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So it's like first class on an airplane. Probably more cozy than that, more comfy.

[Michael Rogiglio]

These were far more extravagant than first class on an airplane, mostly because of the Pullman porters, who were basically servants to the palace passengers. They helped them with their bags, made their beds, took care of their kids, answered when a passenger just rang a bell. And they were basically totally unpaid. There was a very small salary, but once you factor in that they had to pay for their own uniforms and all the other expenses that came with the job, they lived completely off of the tip. And they weren't the only ones. Like I said, these jobs unfortunately went to almost entirely formerly enslaved people. In fact, I came across this, and it's so gross. And it's his words, not mine. But George Pullman only wanted formerly enslaved men to be his Pullman porters because in more than a slightly racist way, he thought they had the right attitude.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, my God. That's pretty gross. Yikes.

[Michael Rogiglio]

But he wasn't the only one. A number of jobs held by black workers had a similar pay structure. And to one final note, on the racist nature of tipping at the time, I found an article by this journalist named John Speed, and he kind of summed it all up that this was a hierarchy and it was basically a racist system because he argued that he was starting to come across white people who were asking for tips. And he said he was embarrassed to have to tip white people because it debased them and he didn't like doing it. So clearly tipping was a way of reinforcing class structures and debasing people.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, okay, a douchebag. But I hate that I'm agreeing with some of his ideas. It does sort of debase people and reinforce class structures. I think I have a problem with it. That's a little broader than the problem he had with it with only tipping white people. But okay, so tipping was becoming a thing nationally, though, not just in the South. Or was this only in the South?

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, it was growing. It was becoming national. At that point, in addition to the Pullman porters, people were just getting used to having to tip waiters, waitresses. So not surprisingly, okay, yeah, domestic workers, carriage drivers, barbers.

[Jordan Harbinger]

You know what's funny? That's like the same people we tip now. I don't see barista in there, but yeah, domestic workers, carriage drives. So a taxi driver, a barber, somebody who cleans the hotel or your home servers, porters. It's expanded, but it's still the same categories of folks.

[Michael Rogiglio]

We're talking about people who weren't used to tipping ever. And so suddenly they were having to tip a lot of people. And so then, like, now, it was really starting to piss people off. In fact, I'd say that people liked it even less back then than they do now.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So that's almost hard to believe since I feel like this is at a breaking point. Most people I know are questioning modern tipping culture.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, back then, they actually passed laws against it in six states. It was literally illegal to tip.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So clearly they had a big problem with tipping. Can we bring those laws back, please? My goodness.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Michael Rogiglio]

People were getting really pissed. In fact, none other than essayist and philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson was one of the first to publicly voice anti tipping sentiments. He saw tipping as anti Democratic. He believed that when two people got together to transact business, they should be equals. But tipping turned it into a mini hierarchy, with the tipped worker becoming subservient to the tipper. He saw it as social bribery. He compared it to a relationship between lords and servants.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I'm not sure I agree. So I've never been to a restaurant and thought I felt like a lord. But I'm also not an essayist and philosopher. I do feel like there's an element, though, of hierarchy that I don't like, and I do like to transact with somebody as an equal. I think it's just more comfortable that way. It is weird to me that somebody has to be polite and they've got to do what I want or they can't. They've got a smile. Right. They can't be in a bad mood. And I don't know. I just. I don't like any of this. I don't like any of the imbalance that it creates initially. Can we just have enough respect for somebody making our coffee to not have them rely on these things? And I think a lot of people don't realize that they are relying on these. And I'm assuming we'll get into that, because it's not just a bonus for these people. They have to have the tip or they're just not making.

[Michael Rogiglio]

They have to have the tip. And it's interesting you put it that way, because you could say that, hey, everyone at their job has to be polite to the customers. It's called customer service. But everybody knows there's a difference between the tipped worker, particularly the waiter or waitress who's making all their money to pay their rent off of tips, and the person that works at the department store. You sense it. There is something slightly more, I don't know, subservient. It does feel like the dance for me. Like, anything I want, you have to do because I'm controlling your pay. So Emerson actually brought up some really good points, which was that the quality of service would now be selective based on how you tipped. And that's actually something that I think gets lost a lot of times as we debate tipping in the modern era, which is, what about the terrible tipper? Take my word for it. The staff is going to give them the shaft every time. Trust me. So what kind of business model are we talking about where some of your customers are actually intentionally treated worse than others? Because that comes along with the whole tipping culture, too.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. Wow. Is it really that bad if somebody's a notoriously bad tipper? The staff just treats them like crap.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Oh, yeah. So I worked at. They have some good food. Perhaps you'd like to pop in. The Mustard Seed Cafe on Hillhurst Avenue in Los Angeles, California. And next door for a number of years, was the mission of Los Feliz, which was a Scientology recruitment center.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michael Rogiglio]

And I don't know what it was, but for some reason, they had a problem with tipping. Maybe it was just those people. Maybe it's not a culturally Scientology thing. But when the scientologists came in. Yeah, they got the worst table and we didn't really pay that much attention to them and their needs or their wants because we knew at the end of the meal it was going to be garbage. There would be 10 of them and they'd run up a multi hundred dollar check and it would be five bucks at the end. So yeah, we intentionally treated them poorly. That's not much of a business model. And then conversely, the people who are great tippers get much better service where you're sitting next to a table and you don't understand why the server keeps going back to them and they're getting everything and they're ignoring you because they're the good tipper and you're the terrible tipper. It's a crazy business model where it's not equal for everybody.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And while that iPad is emotionally waterboarding you into tipping 25% for a muffin you haven't even received yet, here's someone who actually earned their cut. We'll be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by Quints. One of the easiest ways to make your bedroom feel better in the summer is upgrading your bedding. I'm not talking about a full redesign, just sheets that feel cooler, lighter and softer when you get into bed at night. Quince makes high quality bedding from premium materials like 100% European linen and organic cotton. You can feel the difference right away. Their European linen bedding is woven from premium flax so it has that breathable, relaxed feel that's perfect for warmer nights and it gets even softer with every wash. If you like a more classic sheet, their organic cotton bedding is soft, breathable and easy to sleep in when it's hot out. They also have linen shams, duvet covers, seasonal colors, relaxed stripes and timeless neutrals so your bed looks pulled together without feeling fussy. And for a small upgrade that feels surprisingly luxurious, their mulberry silk pillowcases and eye masks help keep your hair smooth and your skin feeling hydrated overnight. We get everything from quints like bedding, luggage, jewelry, clothing, because everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and and cut out the middlemen make your summer betting feel better. Go to Quince.comJordan for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too, folks. That's Quince.com Jordan for free shipping and 365 day returns Quince.com Jordan this episode is also sponsored by SimpliSafe. Most home security systems react after something goes wrong. An alarm goes off, you get notified. Hopefully that scares somebody off. But in reality it is better to have a system that is actually working to prevent problems in the first place. Break ins happen quickly and relying on a basic alarm alone is not always enough. What really matters is having something that can detect suspicious activity early and respond in real time. That's why we chose SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe is built to help stop crime before it even starts. With the outdoor camera Series 2 and advanced AI alerts, SimpliSafe's US based live agents can identify unusual activity on your property and take action right away, like speaking to intruders or contacting emergency services to help deter them before they ever get inside. That proactive approach is like having an extra layer of protection that's actively looking out for your home. What I appreciate most is the peace of mind. Whether you're traveling or just asleep at night, I know there's a system in place that's doing more than just waiting for something to happen. It's also incredibly easy to set up. There's no long term contracts which I love. We want you to experience that same peace of mind, which is why we've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now you can get 50% off your new system by visiting SimpliSafe.com Jordan that's half [e-mail] Jordan there's no safe like SimpliSafe. Don't forget about our newsletter. It's a great companion to the show. Very practical and under two minute read every Wednesday almost. Jordanharbinger.com News is where you can find it. Now back to Skeptical Sunday. So it is interesting that people in America didn't want a tip because they thought it represented the hierarchy of Europe. But today America is the land of the tip and in Europe they don't really tip at all that I've found when I live there.

[Michael Rogiglio]

I mean, yeah, no, it's a totally different culture and we're going to get into that. But as you can see from our history so far that America didn't just jump into tipping willy nilly. Some people were fighting it the whole way. In fact, this is so interesting. People were so anti tipping at that time that some hotels created something called a servidor which was like an interior door in hotel rooms that made it so you never had to see the person giving you service so you didn't feel pressure to tip them. And hotels would advertise hey, we have these servitors. So when people bring you food to your room or services or bring you your suit pressed or whatever it is that they do at the hotel, they'll put it through this interior door and then you'll take it into the room and you'll never actually have to see them. So you don't feel pressured to tip. This was a selling point at hotels.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So in order to not replicate the social hierarchy of Europe, hotels made it so their customers didn't even have to see or interact with, with the servants at all. And that sounds a little bit like a lord. Come on, man, that's crazy.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, look, people were seriously anti tipping. In 1908. William Howard Taft literally made it part of his campaign. He would brag. This was one of his talking points on the campaign trail, that I don't tip my barber.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow. So that was his Bose. That's also cringy.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, American history is full of cringe. But yeah, this was Taft's way of saying he was putting his foot down on tipping culture and he was echoing something a lot of people were feel feeling.

[Jordan Harbinger]

In the last election, both candidates literally ran on no tax on tips. So back in 1908, Taft was running on just no tips. That's my. How times have changed.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, look, back then, people saw it as a shakedown. They complained that everywhere you went, you had to pay for things twice. Once for the food and then for the service. In fact, in 1916, a popular book called the Itching Palm captured that sentiment. It was essentially one long diatribe against tipping.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Not gonna lie, that is a pretty cool title for a book about tipping. Tipping. The Itching Palm.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, sounds like an Agatha Christie novel to me, the Itching Palm. But in reality, the author was a guy by the name of William R. Scott and he argued that tipping wasn't optional, but coerced. People felt social pressure to always tip whether the service was good or not.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, he's kind of got a point there.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, again, he said the same thing. He said it debases workers, forcing them into subservient flattery rather than just being professional.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It sounds like what Ralph Waldo Emerson was saying. I just, I can't say I disagree with that at all. I just, I really agree with all of this centuries old criticism on tipping.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, look, I've been both. I've been the waiter, begging. It did feel like begging for something from the customer of my employer. Like that was. It felt that was the trade off. You can come in and beg my customers for money. And so I've been that. But I've also been the customer. And so I will put in a little one defense of the system, that a good server can make your day and a bad server can wreck it. And it is nice to know that if you go to a restaurant, very often it's a place where they treat you really nice. Again, if you've never been there before or you've been there and you left an okay tip, they're going to treat you nice. And that very often can make your day. It's nice to go to a restaurant. So I will say that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So did you think that you ever made someone's day when you waited tables?

[Michael Rogiglio]

I did, sure. But I was in the game for 15 years, and over a bunch of years, I had a few off days. There's still a Yelp review or two about me floating around out there. I remember one said, I'd probably really dig this guy's vintage record collection, but I hope I never get him as a waiter again.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, my God.

[Michael Rogiglio]

And the one that really got me and sticks with me, it didn't even really criticize my service, but it referred to me as Kato Kaelin.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Wow.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, you gotta learn, you know, the old shoulder touch and squat next to the table thing. You know, some servers do that and you're just like, oh, we're on the same level now.

[Michael Rogiglio]

That is interesting you should say that, because we're going to get into why they do that.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Okay, cool.

[Michael Rogiglio]

But as far as me as a waiter, I tried to be the smileiest version of myself. And I will admit, it did suck being a cheesier version of yourself than you really are.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Crazy that when you waited tables, you were even cheesier than you are on this show. I can't wrap my head around that.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, I walked right into that. Okay, fine. So that said, the itching palm also argued that tipping was just a way businesses could avoid paying their employees a living wage by shifting the burden onto the customers. Which is exactly something that you've already expressed in this episode.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yes, the etching palm makes a hell of a lot of good points so far. I dig it.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah. And finally, it actually argued that tipping was. This one is something you don't see very often anymore. That it was un American, that it reeked of that European aristocracy, that having workers essentially beg for an extra coin clashed with the ideals of American society.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So of all the criticisms you hear about modern tipping culture, you don't hear that one anymore. If anything, people complain that it's the person with the iPad who's acting like an aristocrat. I'm going to buy the Itching Palm if that thing is still in print. Although it's been 100 years, so who knows?

[Michael Rogiglio]

Actually, I looked it up. Of course, it's totally still in print.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow.

[Michael Rogiglio]

So sadly though, the Itching Palm did not turn the tide on tipping, and it continued. But as far as people working for nothing, in 1938, as part of the New Deal, the United States government established the first ever federal minimum wage of 25 cents an hour, mandating that all employees in the United States had to be paid at least 25 cents an hour.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So people couldn't work for free anymore?

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, because they literally excluded people who work from tips from the bill. They wrote it into the law that people who work for tips didn't need to make an hourly wage.

[Jordan Harbinger]

But that's not the case anymore. Right? People are not working for free.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Kind of. That is to say, they're receiving a paycheck, but sometimes it's zero dollars. Again, trust me, I know. I've received a bunch of them.

[Jordan Harbinger]

This is because people who work for tips are paid lower than the actual minimum wage. Right? So it's not really the minimum wage now that I said out loud.

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, it's not even close. And it's called the tipped minimum wage. And that came about after a century of paying tipped workers. Nothing. In 1966, the federal government actually stepped in and created the official sub minimum wage for tipped workers. That is to say, a minimum wage for people who earn tips. Now, people waiting tables had to be paid at least 62 cents an hour.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Geez, I know a dollar went a lot further back in 1996, but I'm pretty sure 62 cents was still freaking peanuts.

[Michael Rogiglio]

And that's why in 1996, the federal government raised the sub minimum wage to $2.13 an hour.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wow. So in 1996, dollars, like, guess that's not too bad. I don't know.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Well, guess what? Because that's where the federal subminimum wage has remained ever since.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Wait, it's still 213 an hour in 2026?

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yep. Still 213 an hour. And that pretty much just pays the taxes. Which is why when I say I was a waiter in Massachusetts, I would regularly receive paychecks for $0 unless I had a really crappy week in tips. And then sometimes the paycheck would be upwards of 12 bucks.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So that's crazy. So if you go into work and it's super Slow. You just made $2.13 an hour.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yes, to be honest with you, but technically, no. The law is written so that if you don't make money in tips, your employer is supposed to make up the difference, and that should be at least the actual minimum wage.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And what is that? Seven bucks an hour or something like that? I don't even know.

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, no one can live off of $7 an hour. The federal minimum wage in the year 2026 is $7.25 an hour.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Okay?

[Michael Rogiglio]

And for the record, in my 15 years of waiting tables, I never met one person for whom the restaurant ever made up for bad tips by boosting their wage. It just doesn't happen, and it's not enforced.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So you'd go into work on a slow week and make $2 an hour.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Let's not make it sound like pure feudalism here, Jordan. That was two. Thirteen an hour.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Geez. But you still had to do all the things you were required to do at the restaurant, right?

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yep. Fold napkins, clean silverware, take out the trash, clean the mats, you name it. All the restaurant duties. But instead of making $7 an paid $2.13 an hour for manual labor.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I mean, playing devil's advocate here, the sub minimum wage is obviously beneficial to the restaurant owners. They create jobs in the community. So I guess that's the argument for the subminimum wage to even exist in the first place.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yes, you are correct. But that is also what anyone sitting in a boardroom for a giant hospitality company will tell you. But here's the argument against it. You noticed that I said when I waited tables in Massachusetts, I made the sub minimum wage. Then I moved to California. And California is one of the states that makes restaurants pay their employees the minimum. Wa. Like the actual minimum wage.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Wow.

[Jordan Harbinger]

A full seven. 25 an hour?

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, no, even crazier. Because when I started waiting tables in California, the state minimum wage was 10 bucks an hour. By the time I finished, it was $15 an hour. Now I'm sitting in California. I know for a fact you are sitting in California. So let me ask you something. Are there any restaurants around in California?

[Jordan Harbinger]

I have noticed a few restaurants in California, yes.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, more than a few. California has the most restaurants of any state. Cave. We're a huge state, so that's a given. But clearly the business model of paying tip workers the minimum wage is working.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That is good. It's probably close to impossible to live in California on 213 an hour plus tips.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yes, but here's the problem. California is an outlier. Currently, There are only seven states that pay tip workers. The state minimum wage, I.e. alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. Everywhere else, tip workers are still making less than the minimum wage.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It's interesting. We live in a world where so many of the restaurants or chain restaurants operate in multiple states. So how do they justify that in one state, they pay their employees $2.13 an hour, and in another state, they pay their employees 15 bucks an hour? How does the business model work in one state and not in another?

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, that's an incredibly good question. If a big chain restaurant can afford to pay waiters in California $15 an hour, why are they only paying waiters in Texas $2.13 an hour? Just doesn't make any sense. And looking for the answer to this question was not that easy. This is not something most giant corporate restaurants want to talk about. But from what I could find, the answer is that menu items are cheaper in the states where they pay their employees less. The people sitting in the boardroom might tell you that if they paid their employees more, the prices would go up and their customers would go to a competitor who is paying their employees the sub minimum wage.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Okay, that's a truly unsatisfying answer. But it seems to me that if you can't pay your employees a living wage, then you really didn't have a job position open for them to begin with. I could afford to pay a whole ton of people two bucks an hour to do my bidding, but I don't know, by my moral standards, that would be wrong. What am I missing here?

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, you're not missing anything. Yeah, they claim that this is the business model that they need to survive. But meanwhile, the Olive Garden made more than $5 billion in 2024, and the CEO, Richard Cardenas, he made $6,700.

[Jordan Harbinger]

What? That's not much at all.

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, no. An hour. I just thought it was only fair that we compare these wages accurately.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, 6700 bucks an hour. That's okay. Now, that's pretty sweet. Does that include his tips, though? That's what I need to know.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Oh, I wonder. So this business model is hugely profitable. Obviously, companies are making $5 billion and still only paying their employees $2.13 an hour. Look, I'm sure every other industry and America, looks at the hospitality industry with envy. Like, I'm sure they would love to pay their employees close to nothing.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Clearly, the problem is systemic. The hospitality industry is protecting the tipped minimum wage system because it benefits their bottom line. Right.

[Michael Rogiglio]

I'm going to push back a tiny little bit.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Michael Rogiglio, taking the side of the man, the big corporations, what's going on here?

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, that's not what I'm doing. The thing I'm going to push back on is that it's not just the big corporations. The sad fact is it's also us, the customers. We are part of the problem. So this has been studied very closely. Professor Michael Lynn at Cornell University is one of the world's leading experts on the psychology of tipping. And his research has shown some really interesting results. So he's run a number of experiments. In one experiment, he gives people two menus. On one it states do not tip. All the costs are factored into the prices you see on the menu and the servers are paid a decent living wage. On the other menu it says tipping is appreciated. And the prices reflect the fact that the employees are paid the sub minimum wage.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So they're the same price. Right. If you pay 30 bucks for a pizza and you have to leave a $6 tip, that's the same as if you just pay 36 bucks for the pizza and leave no tip.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Absolutely. But the only problem is it turns out psychologically speaking, everybody prefers the cheaper menu and then to leave the tip. In fact, many businesses have experimented with no tippings and more often than not it doesn't work out.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Huh? Yeah, I do remember a few restaurants trying that about 10 years ago. And now I can probably on one hand list a number of restaurants that I know that do no tipping.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, they're out there. It is a model that is still fighting for survival. But one of the most high profile examples was restaurateur Danny Meyer. He had an entire movement called the hospitality included bottle. And in 2015 they eliminated tipping in all their restaurants. They raised prices roughly 20% and paid higher base salaries for everyone. The only problem was that the best servers, they freaking hated it. The customers all hated it and they had to reverse course and bring back tipping. And this was the fate for pretty much every restaurant chain that tried it. They almost all had to reverse course.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That is pretty crazy. Obviously we humans have some sort of psychological hang up when it comes to tipping. What's the psychology here? What's going on here?

[Michael Rogiglio]

Like I said, it has been studied and there's been a lot of research done on it and the results were pretty interesting. So when researchers started, they had three assumptions about why people tipped that they were operating off of. First, that was people tipped for social approval. Researchers believe that people tipped because they didn't want their peers to think they were cheap. Second, they also assumed people tip because of fairness and equity. In other words, they tip because it's the right thing to do. I should help this person get ahead with their bills or whatever. And thirdly, they assumed people would tip because they wanted better service next time they were in the restaurant.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I don't know if this is true, but I heard that the word tip is an acronym and it stands something like to ensure promptness. I don't know.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, no, I came across that definitely not true because I actually believe that for a second too. I was like, oh, that makes perfect sense. And then I read, no, that would. The word ensure would be the one with the E in that case.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So, yeah, so it'd be tap, which is not the word.

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, no. The word probably comes from the 17th century English slang. To tip was to hand something over to a person. Maybe if a crook was holding you up, he'd say, tip over your money, mate.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, tipping for every transaction. Also feels like I'm being robbed, so maybe it works.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, yeah, that's actually funny. That's where it comes from. But here's where the findings of the researchers get really interesting. So even if the service was great, research shows the correlation between great service and tipping really isn't a thing. There is some correlation. So this goes counter to what I was just telling you, but there's a lot of my personal experience that runs counter to what the research found. But okay, they found that there is some correlation for good service and better tips, but it's actually not very strong. For the most part, people tip for other reasons. Again, a lot of this research was done at Cornell University by a guy by the name of Professor Michael Lynn. He's written extensively about the psychology of tipping and his team found that the number one factor is actually just the mood of the customer. That's it. A cranky person going to leave a crappy tip no matter what. The staff was like, wow, a cranky

[Jordan Harbinger]

customer is probably going to think the service was terrible no matter what because they're cranky.

[Michael Rogiglio]

That's a totally solid point. Yeah, but the other factors the researchers found were that the appearance of the server actually plays into it quite a bit. And sadly, when you read the research, it's not just that if you're shabby looking, of course you're going to get a worse tip because you look like you don't respect the job and you didn't iron your shirt. And these are messages that we send to people like about how seriously we're taking the job? No, unfortunately, and I hate to say this, an ugly person makes less tips than a good looking person.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, I kind of feel gross saying this as well. But hasn't it been proven that women make more tips if they look kind of sexy? Well, they're working.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, sadly, every woman that's ever waited tables will tell you that's true. Unfortunate, but true. And the research bears that out as well. This plays into actually what psychologists call the halo effect. That is that we just naturally assume good looking people are more likable, competent and deserving. And that's not just in the food service.

[Jordan Harbinger]

That's sadly, in society, that is objectively unfair.

[Michael Rogiglio]

And researchers have also found that female servers who wear red lipstick tend to earn higher tips. And getting back to what you were talking about, where you noticed that a lot of times they'll sit or crouch by the table. The research bears that out as too, that those who sit or crouch at the table instead of standing when taking an order, they earn more tips as well. Including. They also found that adding a small personal message to the check boosts a tip. Every time you get a check and it's got like thank you with the smiley face on it. That is a server who has either, through personal experience, noticed that they make more tips or maybe gone in and read the psychology of tipping and understands that's why they do that. And somewhat uncomfortably, the research even says that a light touch between the server and the customer, like briefly placing a hand on a customer's shoulder while asking how everything was going. This also associates with higher tips.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I've known a few servers who told me that as well. Here's the other obvious issue. When workers paychecks become directly connected to keeping patrons happy, even when those patrons cross boundaries here and there. And we all know that there's a bunch of guys out there dumb enough to think that the pretty waitress is being extra nice, that that's some kind of invitation.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, no, you nailed it there. And there is an underlying cringe factor that exists at almost all restaurants. And that is sadly, that the female servers just have to accept this reality that some guys are just going to be cringy, skeevy.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah. And this is so interesting because research has repeatedly shown the restaurant workers in states with the tipped minimum wage, that is to say, the sub minimum wage, that is to say they are relying solely on the tips. Women who work in restaurants of that nature report much higher levels of sexual harassment. According to industry studies, women working in states with the TIP minimum wage were almost twice as likely to report sexual harassment compared to women in states where they received the state minimum wage. And they were also in the TIP minimum wage jobs, far more likely to report managers telling them to dress sexier to increase tips.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, that's gross. This episode is brought to you by the slow collapse of social norms and by the following sponsors. This episode is sponsored in part by ZipRecruiter. I'm a big believer in saving time where I can. I'll multitask, stack errands and yes, we have help with the kids because otherwise the entire day turns into chaos and we all have our own time saving hacks for everyday life. But if you're a business owner, how can you save time hiring ZipRecruiter? ZipRecruiter has a new feature that quickly lets you see the most interested qualified candidates first. So you save time by meeting the right people faster. And right now you can try it [e-mail] Jordan ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology finds qualified candidates quickly and candidates can tell you in their own words why they're interested in your job, which helps you get a better sense of who's really engaged before you spend time interviewing. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Save time and meet great candidates sooner with ZipRecruiter 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com Jordan that's ZipRecruiter.com Jordan meet your match on ZipRecruiter. This episode is sponsored in part by Concierge MD I've gotten way more interested in preventative health as I've gotten older because I don't want to wait until something is seriously wrong before paying attention to it. Most healthcare is basically built around fixing problems after the fact. Conciergemd is one of the few services I've used that actually focuses on optimization before things go sideways. What sold me is how thorough they are. Most doctors run the same standard labs, give you seven rushed minutes and send you on your way with everything looks fine. Meanwhile, you're exhausted, your recovery sucks, your sleep is inconsistent, and your focus is all over the place. With Concierge MD they actually take the time to look deeper. Hormones, recovery, longevity, sleep, energy. The stuff that directly impacts how you perform every day. And it's real physician led care, not a sketchy wellness trend or AI app pretending to be your doctor. I also love the convenience. They work around your schedule. Everything's connected under one roof. They can even send a phlebotomist to your house to do the draw, the blood draw for the labs at your home on your own couch. I just feel more on top of my game since working with them. More energy, better focus, sleeping better. And for me that translates directly into work, family, life, everything. Go to conciergemd.com and use code jordan for 20% off all services, including memberships. And if y' all have any questions about this, I am really using it and I have been for a while. So please feel free to email me conciergemd.com, use code jordan for 20% off if you want to discuss the show with other fans and other people who actually don't like the show and are still there for some reason, come join us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Whether you're an experienced Redditor or just want to join the fray, come and find us on the Jordan Harbinger subreddit. Now back to Skeptical Sunday. So women are expected to tolerate inappropriate comments, touching, flirting, and basically some form of humiliation because the customer's basically deciding whether they can afford their rent.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, I'd be curious about the experiences of the listeners who've also waited tables and see if they line up with my experiences. Because my experience was mostly that the female servers I knew laugh it off. Like it takes a lot to offend them. The dude would have to be particularly egregious piece of garbage for it to become an issue.

[Jordan Harbinger]

They don't want to lose their job either. Right? So yeah, like I would imagine a woman has to decide do I want to make a big deal about this or do I want to still work here? Because that guy comes in all the time. He's a regular. They're just going to fire me, so I have to let him fake smack my butt every time I walk by and then like giggle or I don't know, whatever cliched annoying thing. Or like he's going to ask me out like he does every week, and I'm going to say no and he's just going to do it again and again and again and I can't really complain at all. That's gross. That's not okay. Even if they do laugh it off,

[Michael Rogiglio]

a lot of cringy compliments too, about their looks from dudes. It's just speaking of the stories that I've told, I don't think this could happen anymore. But I do remember one time in 1995, at the Chestnut Tree Mall in Massachusetts, by first job as a waiter, some dude totally crossed the line. I can't remember what, but I remember the manager walked up to his table, put him in a headlock, and dragged him out to the parking lot.

[Jordan Harbinger]

The lawyer in me says with the presence of cameras everywhere now, that dude would. He would come back with a big old lawsuit against. What was the name of the place

[Michael Rogiglio]

it was actually called Paparazzi.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, God.

[Michael Rogiglio]

The Chestnut Hill Mall. It's still there. And I will say I dream of their spaghetti bolognese. I will tell you that first of

[Jordan Harbinger]

all, the name Paparazzi is. Yikes. Look, that's a 20th century thing. Headlocking people that get out of line is a 20th century thing. So we've established that some dudes tip because they're dumb enough to think the waitress is being nice to them because they actually like him. How sad.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah. Research also shows that social norms play a major role in tipping. Most people just always tip 15 to 20%. There's even some meta analysis suggesting that tipping has an element of mystery and unpredictability. All that said, I can tell you from experience, and again, I'm curious what the listeners experiences might have been, but that a good server definitely makes more money than a bad server any day of the week. Apparently, it's not the only factor, but some research suggests that service quality accounts for only about 1 to 5% of a server's tips. I don't want to argue with the researchers, but that number feels a little off to me. I think about this guy, Marcus actually, who worked at the Paparazzi at the Chestnut Tree Mall in Massachusetts. Marcus could charm an extra 10% out of even the crankiest people. This guy was amazing. So for some people, service definitely means better tips.

[Jordan Harbinger]

When you said restaurants that tried the no tips model had to reverse course because customers and staff hated it, is that why staff hated it? Because they couldn't work their magic to get paid more? Basically, yeah.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Absolutely. Let me pull back the curtain and tell you a little bit about the hierarchy within the server community. Like I said, I don't want to argue with the research, but I'm sure statistically, service isn't a huge factor over millions and millions of transactions. But there are some talented people out there who can charm a table into throwing down extra tips every time.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Like Marcus at that place in the mall.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yes, exactly. And these people are the restaurant's best, most valuable employees, and they definitely Exist. And while the new tipping policy probably benefited just about everybody else in the restaurant, it positively decimated these high earning servers. And when these restaurants tried the no tip policy, all the best servers, their best employees, the best ambassadors of their brand, they all quit and went to restaurants that did have tipping.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Huh? Yeah, I get that we've all been charmed by a charismatic server before, and they kind of put you in a trance as you're filling out your credit card slip at the end of the meal, and you're like, man, I want to buy that guy a new car.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, and everybody loves that server. But the problem is, with the proliferation of ubiquitous tipping, we're starting to notice that it's not just the charming server who knows how to get an extra couple bucks out of us by touching our shoulder or wearing red lipstick or whatever it is. The iPad itself is actually using psychological tricks to get a couple extra dollars out of us too.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I know one psychological trick is paying on your phone versus paying in cash. Back in the old days when you had to count out every dollar, you watch it go from your pocket into somebody else's hand or whatever, you understood the value of the transaction. But when it's on your phone, maybe it's just me, but the money seems kind of fake. It's fantasy money. It's numbers on a screen.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, that's exactly right. So the iPad has an advantage from the get go, but the people programming the iPad have also weaponized that little tip window to pressure you into tipping more. Let's start with the psychological trick they call anchoring.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So tell us what anchoring is.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Okay, so anchoring comes from the world of behavioral economics and has been studied very closely by psychologist Daniel Kahneman, who was instrumental in shaping our understanding of judgment and decision making processes. So anchoring is the psychology that says when presented with several numbers, the first number your brain sees becomes your reference point, and your brain adjusts its expectations from there. So in the old days with the iPad, if you want to go back to the real old days, when the first iPad came around, the first number you saw was actually probably 10%, followed by 15% and then 20%, your brain says, okay, so the 10% is a bad tip, 15% is an okay tip, and 20% is a good tip. So without even knowing it, you're being conditioned to believe you should leave the middle number and not the lower number.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah, that's crazy. I'm old enough to remember when 15% was normal and 20% was a really good tip.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, it's funny, because this is how anchoring works. And I'll challenge you to still find those numbers, because now a lot of the iPads, and I've seen this myself, the lowest tip is 18, and the next option is 22% and then 25%.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So the person looking at the iPad screen thinks 18% is crappy, 22% is normal, 25% is good. So they basically tricked us into giving them another couple percent.

[Michael Rogiglio]

And then you add in the pressure that we've already talked about that comes from the fact that the person you're tipping is staring at you. And very often, without even knowing why you did it, you probably might even hit the 25% button. So this game is rigged, and I don't want to ruin anybody's income, but there are a bunch of tricks out there that make it even worse. I know from my days of waiting tables that any party at my restaurant that was over five people automatically got the gratuity included. Now, being the honest fellow that I was, I'd always point this out to the customers. I'd be like, hey, you don't need to tip me. There's already a 20% gratuity included. Which, if I'm being totally honest, I was also doing my own little psychological trick, hoping that they would see how honest I was by pointing out that you don't need to give me an extra tip in hopes that they would be impressed and give me an extra little tip. So perhaps there was a little trickery in my honesty.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Sure, yeah, that would not work on me. I don't think I'd be like, oh, good, thanks for telling me you get nothing else. Yeah, I've seen that gratuity included thing on a check before. And I've also had to ask the waiter, hey, what is this? Only to have them go, oh, yeah, that's the gratuity. It's already included, knowing full well that had I not noticed, I would have added another 25% or whatever on top of the 20% that they already charged me.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, that's happened to me too. And I know a bunch of waiters and or servers that would intentionally not tell the table that gratuity was included in hopes that it would turn into an extra 25%. And it's annoying. And I get that we're all trying to get ahead here, but when it's the freaking iPad trying to trick me, playing a psychological game on me, that's when I say something is totally has to change.

[Jordan Harbinger]

And when you're trying to play psychological Tricks on me with your iPad before the food even comes out. Come on.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah. And sadly, it's not even just for meals anymore. The iPad is getting pushed at us just about everywhere you go. And a big driver of this, of course, has been the gig economy. Corporate America figured out a long time ago that it's cheaper to just call everybody an independent contractor, offer no salary, no benefits. But to sweeten the deal and to entice people into taking these low paying jobs, they let them solicit tips. And it just turned into a runaway train. People were like, damn, dude, if my Uber driver, my doordash driver, my barista, my hairdresser, my donut shop employee, my florist, and my freaking plumber are all asking for a tip, why shouldn't I ask for a tip at my job?

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah. And rather than do something about this, it seems like both political parties have doubled down on the gig economy and essentially made no tax on tips a big part of their political platform.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yep. And quite frankly, the results have been disastrous, or at least deeply unfair. Because suddenly the person scraping by delivering packages who doesn't receive tips is trying to understand why their friend who delivers sandwiches is receiving tips that they don't have to pay taxes on. It's sort of an arbitrary policy that helps some struggling Americans and leaves others hanging out to drive. Plus, the dirty little secret the politicians pushing for this policy didn't mention is that actually over one third of tipped employees in America don't even earn enough money to pay any income taxes at all.

[Jordan Harbinger]

So it's a little bit of a head fake. Hey, no tax on tips. And people are like, yeah, I'm going to vote for that guy. No tax on tips. And it's like, well, you wouldn't have had to pay tax anyway because you're making under. I don't know what the amount is. You're making such a low amount of money, it wouldn't have mattered. Yeah. And it's confusing for the rest of us. We've become so conditioned to tip everywhere and everyone that when the nice package delivery guy shows up and hands me my packages and tells me to have a nice day, I sometimes feel like, oh, am I supposed to tip him too? I don't know.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah. Which is where we are now. Tip fatigue. People are freaking done. Everywhere I go on social media, I see people complaining about tipping. I'm pretty sure the entire system has reached its, I'll just say it, Tipping point.

[Jordan Harbinger]

I was wondering when you would make that pun. But what is the solution? Because we've already established that we are part of the problem. We apparently like tipping. Corporate America is part of the problem. The major American political parties are part of the problem. Because of the whole tax thing, are we just gonna overhaul the whole system? It just seems so unlikely.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Yeah, it's interesting because what you said something at the beginning of this episode that was really salient and that what you said was, it's funny that Americans were initially turned off by Tipp Shipping because it seems so European. But anyone that's traveled to Europe knows that now Europeans don't really have this system, and we do. And spoiler alert, Europe's full of restaurants. Yes, they're making it work. Those restaurants are full of servers. And those restaurants that are full of servers are also full of customers. And the customers don't tip and the staff doesn't expect it. Somehow the business model just works.

[Jordan Harbinger]

To say that a restaurant reminded you of a little bistro you ate at in Paris, that's always a compliment when somebody says that, right? About a restaurant. When people think of European restaurants, they're not like, oh, they're terrible. The food is bad. The experience sucks. You never really hear that.

[Michael Rogiglio]

No, look, again, it's not so different than the no tipping required model that was tried in America, which is they just charge you upfront for everything and then pay their employees a higher wage. Look, and at the risk of sounding like I'm on a soapbox, I don't think tipping is the problem. Tipping is the symptom. We've built an economic system in America where maximum profit is the only acceptable outcome. So businesses behave the way businesses have always behaved. Kids on a playground. If everyone else is doing it, they have to do it, too. Except this isn't a playground, and if you don't do it, you're not getting picked last, you're going out of business. Your competitors will bury you. So, no, the solution isn't to stop tipping your server, your doordash driver, or the barista standing there while the iPad stares into your soul. They didn't build this system. They're just surviving in it. The real problem is that we've normalized a system where wages are optional, prices are misleading, and the customer is quietly expected to make up the difference. So if we actually want to change, it's not about stiffing workers. It's about asking why. We've created an economy where companies can't compete unless they underpay. Workers can't survive without tips, and customers are constantly being nudged, pressured, and psychologically manipulated. Just to complete a transaction. So that is not a service economy. That's actually a race to the bottom. And if we want something better, then, yeah, probably starts with policies and the people we vote for to implement them. Because right now, we're kind of all just standing there staring at that iPad, being told it's just gonna ask you a quick question.

[Jordan Harbinger]

It turns out that quick question leads to a lot more questions. The solution to tip fatigue, though, is not just to stop tipping. I'd love to, but it's not gonna work. That system we're talking about has been building for over a hundred years. You just don't unwind something like that overnight. It's systemic. But here's the upside. Sounds like nobody really likes it. Workers don't like relying on it, Customers don't like being pressured by it, and plenty of restaurants have actually tried to move away from it, so. So if we can say one thing definitively, it's that people are ready for something better. Now the real question is what that something better actually is and how much of the 21st century economic system we're really willing to change to get there. Thanks, Michael. Hey, good job. Oh, really?

[Michael Rogiglio]

It was a good job.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Yeah.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Oh, thanks, man. Hey, if you don't mind, I'm just gonna send you over a little something from Venmo. It's just gonna ask you a real quick question.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Oh, great. Yeah, I just so happen to have a super quick answer. Just two letters, in fact. So thanks to Michael and thanks to you all for listening. Topic suggestions for future episodes of Skeptical Sunday to meet Jordanordanharbinger.com advertisers, deals, discounts, and ways to support the show, [e-mail] deals I'm Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. You can find Michael ichaelregilio on Instagram. That'll also be linked in the show notes because nobody can spell Rogiglio. Michael, pay those bills.

[Michael Rogiglio]

Tour dates coming up. I'm going to be in New York in the fall if anyone on the east coast wants to come see me and war available on Amazon.

[Jordan Harbinger]

This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Tata Sidlowskis, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Our advice and opinions are our own. And yeah, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer also. We, of course, try to get these as right as we can. Not everything is gospel, even if it's fact. Checked, so consult a qualified professional before applying anything you hear on the show, especially if it's about your health and well being. Remember, we rise by lifting others. Share the show with those you love, and if you found the episode useful, please share it with somebody else who could use a good dose of the skepticism and knowledge that we doled out today. In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn and we'll see you next time. When a government bans words, people turn language into code Lawwai86 reveals how Chinese citizens hide dissent in memes, emojis and mythical creatures, and how AI is now learning to crack those codes. Hear how this censorship cat and mouse game is getting darker on episode 1299 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

We have to understand that China is an absolute totalitarian dictatorship. So these words to get around censorship are very necessary. And I want to say the punishments before we get into this to understand what Chinese people face in terms of trying to express themselves. If you spread rumors, you can get three years in prison. The second level of this is picking quarrels, making people have a debate or a discussion about something online. And if the government decides that you're having a discussion about something they don't want you to talk about, that gets you five years in prison. And then you have inciting subversion. And in China, that is absolutely, positively the worst thing you can do. I mean, to the Chinese government, that's like treason almost. So they can get you up to 15 years in prison. And people do face these jail times just for stuff they post online. So keep that in mind when we try to decode some of this language. People are literally risking their freedom and lives to post these things and get their worries out there into the world. To drink tea means you actually go to the police station, because the tradition is if you go into any sort of Chinese building or something, you're offered some tea or hot water and a cup. Recently, the way of talking about the current economic situation in China has gotten people arrested. Talk egg prices. If you talk about specifically just eggs, oh, egg prices are really high right now. That's like how to express discontent that life is getting too uncomfortable. Talking about the leader is so off limits it's not even funny. I mean, that's where you get the 15 years to just actually just disappearing. People that do bring up or ask the leader to step down. That is the worst thing you can do in China, period.

[Jordan Harbinger]

Laowai86 reveals how Chinese citizens hide dissent in memes, emojis and mythical creatures on episode 1299 of the Jordan Harbinger Show.

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