A Master Conman in His Own Words

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal. — "A Master Conman in His Own Words"
Date: July 13, 2026
Hosts: Ryan Knudson & Jessica Mendoza
Featured Reporter: Jason Zweig

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Overview

This episode of The Journal. delves into the shocking real-life Ponzi scheme perpetrated by Paul Regan, who defrauded mostly elderly and vulnerable clients out of $60 million. Through rare original call recordings and in-depth reporting by Jason Zweig, listeners gain a firsthand look at both the psychological tactics of a master conman and the deep damages inflicted on his victims. The episode traces Regan’s rise, methods, the anatomy of his fraud, the investigation that exposed him, and his downfall.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pitch: Paul Regan’s Allure (00:08–03:03)

• Paul Regan’s persona: Regan, on calls with clients, comes across as trustworthy, kind, and persistent.
  • “I’m here to see if I can clear up any questions you have and answer any questions you have and give you comfort.” — Paul Regan [00:54]
• Unrealistic promises: Promises of "guaranteed returns of 10 to 15% with zero risk."
  • “There is zero risk of loss here with a guaranteed annuity that pays up to 15% per annum.” — Paul Regan [01:21]
• Building trust: Regan targets retirees and those in poor health, tailoring his pitch to invoke comfort and security.

2. Investigative Red Flags (05:30–06:38)

• Jason Zweig’s skepticism: Jason receives a tip and quickly recognizes red flags—returns are too high and guarantees sound implausible.
  • “The extremely high returns didn’t make sense to me.” — Jason Zweig [05:44]
• First article: Zweig's initial piece poses questions, which prompts insiders (agents) to reach out with more information.

3. The Mechanics of the Scam (07:14–12:17)

• Fake credentials: Regan markets himself as a seasoned Wall Street veteran and repeatedly claims experience at Citigroup, but details change and Citigroup confirms he never worked there.
• Salesforce recruitment: He entices insurance agents with high commissions and uses them as his distribution network.
  • “He offered extremely high commissions and that was how he built a salesforce.” — Jason Zweig [08:51]
• Target demographic: People 55+, with over $100,000 in assets, often facing health or financial anxieties.

4. The “Investments” Explained (10:40–12:17)

• Gold mining claims: Regan falsely claims involvement in Colombian gold operations.
  • “We have relationships with mining operations, mostly through Latin America, specifically Colombia.” — Paul Regan [11:10]
• Health insurance profits: He spins a convoluted tale about making steady profits from buying and selling Affordable Care Act health policies—pitches that even officials can’t follow or validate.
  • “When I called the Department of Health and Human Services, they couldn’t even understand what exactly he was claiming to do.” — Jason Zweig [12:17]

5. Trust-Building & Emotional Manipulation (12:41–17:47)

• Tonal strategy: Regan uses a soothing, almost paternal tone, and even draws on religion if he senses it will appeal:
  • “It's beyond my fiduciary responsibility. It's my godly responsibility.” — Paul Regan [14:24]
• Metaphors and false reassurances: He tells hesitant clients the risk is as low as "being stepped on by a dinosaur." [13:53]
• Customization for the vulnerable: Regan shares tales of gratitude and “blessings,” using empathy as a manipulative tool.
• Case study—a veteran's tragedy: A 75-year-old Vietnam vet loses his $600,000 life savings, meant for a friend’s nursing care.
  • “Is it too good to be true?...because it’s a big responsibility for me to invest her $600,000.” — Client [15:33]
  • “There's a special kind of hell for that person.” — Paul Regan [16:23]; Zweig: “And he said it so sincerely.” [16:37]

6. The Darker Side: Treatment of Agents (17:59–18:10; 19:26–20:21)

• Abuse of sales agents: Regan is manipulative and cruel about his own sales team, calling them “waste of human skin” and joking about their intelligence.
  • “These people that aren’t sophisticated, including my agents… some of them, 82 IQs… this level of stupidity.” — Paul Regan [19:56]
• Illegal asks: Agents, mostly with no securities background, are unknowingly pushed to break the law by selling securities without a license.
  • “He asked them to do things that were illegal without telling them that they were illegal.” — Jason Zweig [20:24]

7. Cultivation of Agent Loyalty (21:47–22:20)

• Commissions and camaraderie: High payouts and ‘locker room’ atmosphere foster loyalty—many agents become investors themselves.
  • “He was really like a man’s man… bear hugging, high fiving, calling people brother.” — Jason Zweig [22:03]
• Extravagant perks: Regan hosts lavish parties in Colombia for his agents.

8. Cracks Emerge and Collapse (23:33–25:24)

• Whistleblowers: Disgraced securities industry figures (e.g., Anthony Little) are recruited; one reports Regan to the SEC.
• Media impact: Zweig’s second article exposes more holes, causing Regan’s custodians to bail and the operation to unravel.

9. The Fall: Legal Action and Impact (25:45–28:44)

• Authorities intervene: State and federal agencies charge Regan; he pleads guilty to three counts of fraud.
• Scale of the scam: $60 million stolen, primarily affecting ordinary, non-wealthy people—contrasts with Madoff’s wealthy clientele.
• Victims left in limbo: Uncertainty about recovery of funds; emotional scars run deep.
  • “These investors have crippling anxiety and worry about whether they’ll ever get any of the money back... I don’t think these investors were greedy. I think they were needy.” — Jason Zweig [27:24]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There is zero risk of loss here with a guaranteed annuity that pays up to 15% per annum.” — Paul Regan [01:21]
• “No matter how cynical you are about the financial industry, maybe you’re not cynical enough.” — Jason Zweig [02:24]
• “You may have a better chance being stepped on by a dinosaur. Right. This product was built to be a guaranteed product.” — Paul Regan [13:53]
• “It's beyond my fiduciary responsibility. It's my godly responsibility.” — Paul Regan [14:24]
• “I don’t think these investors were greedy. I think they were needy. And I think someone came along and said, I can solve your problems for you. And they believed what they were motivated to believe in. And that’s very human. It’s not greedy or stupid. It’s just human.” — Jason Zweig [27:24]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:08–03:03 — Paul Regan’s original pitch and psychological tactics
• 05:30–07:14 — Genesis of Jason Zweig’s investigation
• 10:40–12:17 — False explanations of gold and insurance investments
• 13:53–14:42 — Reassurances, religious overtones, and metaphors
• 15:08–17:47 — Case study: Veteran's tragedy and emotional manipulation
• 19:26–20:21 — Regan’s opinion of agents and pushing illegal behavior
• 21:47–22:20 — Regan’s method of building agent loyalty
• 23:33–25:24 — Investigation cracks Regan’s operation
• 25:45–28:44 — Legal fallout, impact on victims, and broader lessons

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Tone & Language

The episode balances journalistic inquiry with empathy for the victims and a critical eye toward how easily Ponzi schemes ensnare even the wary. Paul Regan’s own words are chilling for their calculated warmth, while Jason Zweig’s expert assessment grounds the narrative in financial reality and human psychology.

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Bottom line: This episode offers an in-depth, humanized account of a sophisticated investment fraud, providing rare audio evidence and essential lessons about trust, vulnerability, and the tactics of financial predators.

Transcript

[Paul Regan]

Hello, My name is Paul Reagan. I'm the CEO and founder of Next Level Holdings. How are you?

[Ryan Knudsen]

This is the voice of Paul Regan.

[Paul Regan]

This is Paul Regan, chairman and co founder of Yield Bank, Hawaii.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Regan ran two investment firms and he spent a lot of time on the phone pitching prospective clients.

[Paul Regan]

This is Paul Regan with NextLevel Holdings. How are you? Hello. Yes, good morning. My name is Paul Regan with NextLevel Holdings. How are you? I'm good. Okay, so we have a call book today to go over your retirement income protection.

[Ryan Knudsen]

What is he trying to get these people to do?

[Jason Zweig]

Trust him.

[Paul Regan]

I'm here to see if I can clear up any questions you have and answer any questions you have and give you comfort. Explain the product. If you have a couple of minutes, I'd like to do that.

[Ryan Knudsen]

What Paul Reagan had to offer sounded pretty amazing. An investment with a guaranteed return of 10 to 15%. And not only were the returns really high, he said there was no downside.

[Paul Regan]

Let me be very clear. There is zero risk of loss here with a guaranteed annuity that. That pays up to 15% per annum. Okay, sounds good. That's pretty high. Percentage isn't? Is.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Our colleague Jason Zweig has been writing about investments for decades. When he caught wind of Paul Reagan and what he was selling, Jason wanted to know how Regan got people to fall for this pitch.

[Jason Zweig]

Offerings like this are very common. The reason it's a cliche to say if it's too good to be true, it probably is is because there are a lot of offerings in the financial industry that sound too good to be true and are too good to be true. And this was one of them.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Jason says that Regan's clients were often in dire straits. They had health problems. They were retired or getting ready to retire. And Regan was really good at building trust with them.

[Jason Zweig]

These people were ripe for the picking. I've also started to become a bit cynical in my old age. But I think no matter how cynical you are about the financial industry, maybe you're not cynical enough.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Jason has covered many scams and frauds in his career, but not one like this. Because as Jason investigated Regan's scheme, he obtained dozens of recordings that gave him a rare look at how this scam actually played out. A portrait of a con man and his victims.

[Jason Zweig]

He's listening for people's points of vulnerability.

[Paul Regan]

Let's give you the benefit and the blessing of feeling that security. Feeling that security the moment the first payment comes.

[Jason Zweig]

And once they started to talk, he would pick up immediately on whatever made them potentially vulnerable.

[Paul Regan]

This product was built for someone that did not want to ever consider the possibility of risk.

[Jason Zweig]

And that was what he then would talk about. And that's how he got them on the hook.

[Paul Regan]

I gotta tell you, you've touched my heart with the use and with the need. I can't think of anybody more deserving.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Ryan knudsen. It's Monday, July 13th. Coming up on the show, a portrait of a master con man in his own words and how he was eventually brought down.

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[Ryan Knudsen]

Jason started looking into Paul Regan in 2024. It started with a very simple tip. Someone had heard about this investment he was offering and suggested Jason look into it. So he started poking around.

[Jason Zweig]

The first story we ran, which was in August of 2024, essentially just asked a bunch of questions like, huh, really what's going on here? And, you know, the extremely high returns didn't make sense to me. The guarantees and the insurance didn't really make sense.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That article opened a door. Agents who sold investments for Regan started reaching out to Jason.

[Jason Zweig]

One of the people who contacted me after my first article ran was a. A salesperson who had recorded a video of one of his calls with his salesforce, sort of the equivalent of a zoom call, and said, there's a lot more of this out there.

[Ryan Knudsen]

The salesperson told Jason that Regan also recorded his calls, a lot of them, and he often shared them with the agents that sold his products. With that lead, Jason was able to find other sources who had more recordings. And those recordings, along with conversations with people involved, helped Jason get To the bottom of what happened. It's unclear when exactly Regan started this scheme, but Jason learned that he was running it from outside the country. Regan lived in Columbia. So tell me about the story of this investing scheme. How did it get off the ground?

[Jason Zweig]

So Regan promoted himself online extensively as a financial expert.

[Paul Regan]

If you visit the website again, I don't know, I don't know how long you spent perusing the website, looking through it, but I've got some pretty impressive credentials.

[Ryan Knudsen]

On his website, Regan flaunted the supposed awards he'd won. And on the phone he told prospective clients about his deep years of experience.

[Paul Regan]

I've taken companies public. I've made large deals with large insurance carriers. And that's why you, you know, I was successful in doing this. This year I'm actually an investment advisor of the Year by Wealth and Finance magazine. I'm a Wall street veteran with industry, you know, inside secrets.

[Ryan Knudsen]

His story about his impressive resume was generally consistent, but the details sometimes varied.

[Paul Regan]

I head up the alternative investment division at Citigroup. For six years. I had 218 guys under me. I had 264 guys under me at Citigroup. I ran the alternative asset division. You know, I worked at citigroup. I had 247 eyes underneath me.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Citigroup told Jason that it had no record of Regan working there. Regan ran two financial next level holdings and yield wealth. And he had an army of insurance agents who worked on his behalf. These agents primarily sold annuities, financial products that are generally targeted at older people.

[Jason Zweig]

He offered extremely high commissions and that was how he built a salesforce. And these people were independent, they weren't employees of his, but they worked for him. And eventually many of them sold very little other than his products because they were so lucrative.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Once these agents were on the hook, enticed by the potential for high commissions, they then introduced Regan to their existing clients.

[Jason Zweig]

And many of these people were introduced to Paul Reagan through an insurance agent or other financial salesperson they already knew and trusted. And most of those insurance agents and salespeople trusted Paul Regan because he had won their trust.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Who were Regan's targets for these investments?

[Jason Zweig]

So the ideal demographic for him was somebody who was older, typically 55 and up, who had at least $100,000 in assets. So you're older, you do have some accumulated assets, you're not wealthy and you might have some major health issues. And the phone rings and it's a friendly agent or it's Paul Reagan himself describing this insured riskless guaranteed return of 10% or more.

[Paul Regan]

I mean, there aren't too many opportunities to earn a 10.5% yield with full insurance protection. So, you know, it's a smart play, especially now.

[Jason Zweig]

And if you're struggling to make ends meet or you would like a little extra income, that isn't risky. It was like a dream come true.

[Ryan Knudsen]

What did he say that these investments were in? Like, what was he actually supposedly doing with this money?

[Jason Zweig]

So his explanations of what he was doing were extremely complicated and very difficult, I think, for anybody without a financial background to understand, which I think was part of the point.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Regan explained that there were two elements to his investment strategy. The first was gold. He told clients that he owned or sometimes even operated gold mines in Colombia.

[Paul Regan]

We're actually trading the tangible bars of gold. So we have relationships with mining operations, mostly through Latin America, specifically Colombia.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Regan said that he was able to buy that gold wholesale, below market price, and then sell it at a markup,

[Paul Regan]

every gram, every kilo of gold that they're able to pull out of the earth, they have to sell it to us at a discount of 2% below London fixed price or spot price.

[Ryan Knudsen]

The other piece of his investment strategy had something to do with buying and selling health insurance policies under the Affordable Care Act.

[Jason Zweig]

His explanations of this, if you listened carefully, would have been extremely hard to follow.

[Paul Regan]

So using small numbers, for $50,000, we're able to acquire 208 policies. 208 policies will make net about 25 bucks per month. Now that money is paid to us through UnitedHealthcare.

[Jason Zweig]

When I called the Department of Health and Human Services, they couldn't even understand what exactly he was claiming to do. But for people who didn't know that much about the insurance market, it sounded plausible.

[Ryan Knudsen]

On the phone, Regan was really convincing.

[Jason Zweig]

He has a very soothing, deep, soft voice.

[Paul Regan]

All right, so we could do a Q and A format, or I could just talk. I'd rather do Q and A. That way I know exactly what information you're trying to glean from the call, and I can answer all the questions one by one.

[Jason Zweig]

So his tone is that he's your

[Paul Regan]

friend, and you say you don't have the faith. You've got the faith, brother. You just gotta believe it.

[Jason Zweig]

He values that you've been a hard worker your whole life, and sometimes you struggle to make ends meet, and he's here to help.

[Paul Regan]

Well, I can tell you this. Not only will you not lose your money, but in recognition of how hard you worked for it, I want you to remember something. Your money's gonna work twice as hard for you as you ever did for it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So if a client was hesitant, what kinds of things would he say to try to close the deal?

[Jason Zweig]

He would reassure people in very creative ways.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Reagan explained that his investments were completely safe because they were insured. And he had a favorite metaphor to soothe nervous clients.

[Paul Regan]

Do I have to disclose risk? I mean, theoretically. Could that happen? Sure. I mean, is it likely? I think you have a better chance of being stepped on by a dinosaur, if I'm being honest. For that to happen, you may have a better chance being stepped on by a dinosaur. Maybe a better chance of being stepped on by a dinosaur. Right. This product was built to be a guaranteed product.

[Ryan Knudsen]

And if Regan ever sensed that a potential client was religious, he'd pounce on that, telling them that he was a man of God.

[Paul Regan]

It's beyond my fiduciary responsibility. It's my godly responsibility. So we. Look, everything I've told you is true.

[Jason Zweig]

And he would say things like, bless you, or God bless or I feel blessed to be able to help you.

[Paul Regan]

Honestly and truly, this is a blessing for me because having the knowledge of the fact that you need it, you know, makes it that much sweeter, that much more of a blessing for me, knowing that I can, you know, come through for you and be your deliverance.

[Ryan Knudsen]

One of Regan's Targets was a 75 year old disabled Vietnam war veteran.

[Paul Regan]

Hello.

[Ryan Knudsen]

He was hoping to invest his money with Regan so he could pay for the care of a family friend who had dementia.

[Paul Regan]

My name is Paul Reagan. I'm the CEO and founder of Next Level Holdings. How are you? How about you? I'm good.

[Ryan Knudsen]

This potential client had $600,000, but in my mind, I'm.

[Paul Regan]

Is it too good to be true? And it kind of scares me because it's a big. It's a big responsibility for me to invest her $600,000 so be able to pay for her nursing home, you know, I understand. Here's the reality. You're absolutely right. You know, these, these concerns are well founded. Anybody that doesn't take some form of, you know, pause and question, something like this, you know, isn't really doing themselves, you know, any, any, any good. I mean, you're talking about, you know, making sure that some woman somewhere has, you know, what she needs in her retirement for nursing reasons. I assume this woman can't take care of herself and she needs assisted living. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I mean, first of all, the kind of person that would hear that and then put you in a situation where you know, there's risk. I mean, there's a special kind of hell for that person.

[Jason Zweig]

There's a special place in hell for that person. And he said it so sincerely.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Regan made the investor feel more comfortable by sweetening the deal.

[Paul Regan]

Because we're talking about generating income to pay for assisted living. Let me see if I can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Let me see if I can get it. Instead of two years, let me see if I can get it extended for five.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Regan explained that the monthly returns from his investment would go straight into his bank account.

[Paul Regan]

It's gonna be. Yeah, it's gonna be direct deposited Right into your account. Right, deposited. And I can use. Use a, A debit card to, to transfer it to her. Her account. And that's correct. Then monthly pay. The monthly nursing home bill. Correct.

[Ryan Knudsen]

The Vietnam veteran ended up investing all of his $600,000.

[Paul Regan]

Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. And thank you for your service. I know Memorial Day was last week, but. Yeah. Happy belated, man. All right, Paul, I'll. I'll talk to you soon. Okay. God bless. All right, bye. Take care.

[Ryan Knudsen]

When Regan was on the phone with potential clients, he was charming and kind. But he didn't sound that way when it came to those insurance agents who sold his investments.

[Paul Regan]

This prick, this sucker, this waste of human skin. When he called, do you know what he said? He said that he was shocked to learn

[Ryan Knudsen]

that and how Regan was brought down is next.

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[Ryan Knudsen]

Most of the people that worked for Regan were insurance agents and didn't have much of a background in investments. This is actually why Regan recorded so many of his calls. So he could show them to his agents, and they could learn how to be persuasive like him.

[Jason Zweig]

He was recording himself primarily to create training materials for his sales force.

[Ryan Knudsen]

In fact, many of the agents knew very little about investing, which is what Regan wanted. Here he is talking about them with a colleague.

[Paul Regan]

These people that aren't sophisticated, including my agents, that have, like, some of them, 82 IQs, I'm not responsible for what they say, you know, you know what I'm talking about. We've laughed about how overwhelming it is to have to deal with this level of ignorance, this level of stupidity.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Did Regan ever ask them to do anything illegal?

[Jason Zweig]

He asked them to do things that were illegal without telling them that they were illegal.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Regan had these agents selling what was theoretically a security which would technically be regulated by the sec. Most of these insurance agents weren't licensed to sell securities, though, meaning they couldn't legally sell them.

[Jason Zweig]

And because almost all of them were insurance agents who had never worked in the securities industry, they didn't realize that they were being asked to do something that was illegal.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Regan's sales chief was a man named Jonathan Guzman.

[Paul Regan]

I wouldn't like, hide anything or twist

[Ryan Knudsen]

anything in this recording. Guzman said agents didn't need a license to sell securities because of a loophole. This is not true, by the way.

[Paul Regan]

Do you have a securities license?

[Mariner Announcer]

No.

[Paul Regan]

Why not? Because this is a referral right now. It's referral based. And as long as this loophole exists, you do not have to get securities license to refer your deal over to the hedge fund. Simple.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Guzman told our colleague Jason that he was just repeating what Regan had said about securities licenses. He said, quote, I never did things against the law knowingly. A big way Regan cultivated loyalty from his agents was with those commissions. The money was really good.

[Jason Zweig]

A lot of these insurance agents were making thousands of dollars at a time from selling Regan's offerings. And they all believed in him as well. In fact, many of them became his investors.

[Paul Regan]

Get paid and then get paid some more.

[Jason Zweig]

I would describe him almost as like the king of the locker room in the gym. He was really like a man's man, you know, back slapping, bear hugging, high fiving, hugging, calling people brother.

[Ryan Knudsen]

At one point, Regan even flew many of the sales agents out to Columbia for a big party. Videos from the party that Jason was able to view show showed fire dancers and a boxing match between very short people. But Regan also ruled over these agents with an iron fist. He lashed out at them if they made mistakes or asked too many questions.

[Paul Regan]

Brother, I just wanted to Share an additional piece of information that I just uncovered.

[Jason Zweig]

And when one agent in did a little preliminary investigation by calling a firm that had signed a marketing deal with one of Reagan's companies, Regan went ballistic.

[Paul Regan]

Whoever this sucker is, bro, I don't care who. Waste of human skin. This is an act of treason. And not only do I want him fired, bro, I want his head on a platter.

[Ryan Knudsen]

After Jason's first story, the one that asked all those questions, people started to get in touch with him to tell him about their experiences with Regan.

[Jason Zweig]

Fairly early on in my reporting, I got an email that came from federal prison, and it was from a man named Anthony Little. And he said, I read your story about Paul Reagan, and I thought you'd like to know that he contacted me.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Anthony Little had been expelled from the securities industry in 2022, and Regan wanted him to join his operation.

[Jason Zweig]

Regan contacted him and said, and I'm paraphrasing, I like to hire people who've been thrown out of the securities industry. I'll pay you three or four hundred thousand dollars a year plus a bonus. What do you say? And so what did he say? So Anthony Little said, well, I. I guess I'd like to hear what you have to say. And they had a conversation, and Paul Regan sent him a bunch of marketing materials and other information. And Anthony Little shared this with investigators at the securities and Exchange Commission. And as he put it then, I don't know, nothing seemed to happen.

[Ryan Knudsen]

After talking with more agents, Jason was able to write a second story.

[Jason Zweig]

And the second article, about a month later, was able to poke more holes in the official story of what was going on. And that's when the wheels really started to come off the wagon. The custodial firm, which safe keeps the assets of investment companies, said it no longer wanted to do business with Regan. And very quickly, the whole thing just unraveled.

[Ryan Knudsen]

After Jason's investigation was published in the Wall street journal In late 2024, the authorities went after Regan, a couple of

[Jason Zweig]

state governments, and the U.S. department of justice through the Southern District of New York and the securities and Exchange Commission all opened investigations.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Authorities filed charges against Regan and alleged that he was operating a Ponzi scheme. The investments weren't real. Any returns that investors got along the way just came from money given to him by new investors. In 2025, Regan turned himself in and later pleaded guilty to three charges of fraud. Regan's attorneys didn't respond to requests for comment. What's going to happen to him?

[Jason Zweig]

He'll be sentenced in August and he presumably will spend some time in federal prison.

[Ryan Knudsen]

All in all, Regan scammed about $60 million from his victims. Is there a chance that any of these people could get their money back?

[Jason Zweig]

There is. Typically, there is some recovery in situations like this. The problem is it varies enormously, and federal authorities have not said anything about the potential for recovery. Whatever he has can be forfeited for the benefit of his investment victims.

[Paul Regan]

It.

[Jason Zweig]

It just isn't clear how much he has left at this point.

[Ryan Knudsen]

$60 million may not sound like a lot in the pantheon of great Ponzi schemes. Bernie Madoff stole 17 billion. But Madoff mostly targeted the wealthy. Regan was scamming everyday people, the sick, the elderly, people like that Vietnam veteran who lost the money he needed to pay for his friend's nursing home.

[Jason Zweig]

These investors have crippling anxiety and worry about whether they'll ever get any of the money back. And, you know, I think this is the point where we should say that a lot of our listeners think, I would never fall for a Ponzi scheme. I'm too smart to fall for that. There's a sentiment that if something like this happens to you, you deserved it because you're either greedy or stupid. And I don't think that's true at all. I don't think these investors were greedy. I think they were needy. And I think someone came along and said, I can solve your problems for you. And they believed what they were motivated to believe in. And that's very human. It's not greedy or stupid. It's just human

[Paul Regan]

for me. I'd love to do what's right. I'd love to do what's best. I love helping my clients. That's. That's why I enjoy what I do. It's the gratification and it's the joy that I get from waking up each morning. You know, I. I stay healthy. I try and treat the people around me, you know, good. My family and. And my clients. I mean, that's. That's really it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's all for today. Monday, July 13. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.