The Journal Podcast Summary Episode: Ben Shapiro and Preet Bharara on the ‘Podcast Election’
Release Date: January 20, 2025

Introduction: The Rise of Podcasting in Politics

In this special edition of The Journal, host Ryan Knutson delves into the significant role podcasting played in the 2024 election cycle. Joined by two prominent figures from opposing political spectrums—Ben Shapiro, a leading conservative podcaster, and Preet Bharara, a former U.S. Attorney and Democratic commentator—the discussion explores how podcasts have reshaped political discourse and campaign strategies.

Podcasting as a Political Tool

Ryan Knutson opens the conversation by highlighting the term “Podcast Election,” referencing the extensive use of podcasts by political candidates. Notably, Donald Trump appeared on over 20 podcasts, including Shapiro’s, while Kamala Harris made eight podcast appearances.

Ben Shapiro emphasizes the medium’s transformative impact:

“Podcasts granted access to platforms that legacy media couldn’t, allowing President Trump to reach audiences without traditional filters” ([00:57]).

He criticizes Kamala Harris for underutilizing podcast opportunities, contrasting her limited appearances with Trump’s prolific engagements.

Preet Bharara concurs, noting the missed opportunities for broader political dialogue:

“We tried to get one of those two on. I figured one of them would have been futile, and it turned out both were futile” ([03:28]).

This mutual recognition underscores the strategic importance of podcasting in modern political campaigns.

Authenticity and Long-Form Conversations

Bharara discusses how the intimate and extended format of podcasts enables deeper insights into a candidate’s character and policies:

“In the long form, it's hard to bullshit who you are… It gives people a better sense of who the candidate is” ([04:27]).

Shapiro echoes this sentiment, highlighting the challenge of maintaining authenticity in quick media formats:

“If you're always at the top of the iceberg, it's very morning, it's” ([05:09]).

The guests agree that podcasts foster genuine conversations, allowing political figures to express nuanced viewpoints beyond sound bites.

Conservatives' Pioneering Role in Podcasting

A significant portion of the discussion centers on conservatives’ effective use of podcasting compared to the left.

Ben Shapiro attributes the conservative advantage to necessity and authenticity:

“Conservatives have done a better job at building and cultivating audiences in the podcast space because we had to” ([06:50]).

Preet Bharara adds historical context, comparing podcasting’s rise to AM talk radio:

“Podcasting started in much the same way as AM talk radio… It offered an immediate and diverse platform” ([07:00]).

They suggest that conservatives adapted more swiftly to the podcast medium, leveraging it to build strong, loyal listener bases.

Challenges for the Left in Podcasting

Knudson and Shapiro explore why the liberal side has lagged behind in podcasting prominence.

Shapiro critiques attempts to mimic successful conservative models, stressing the importance of authenticity:

“Copycats, I don't think necessarily do very well… Different voices develop in different ways” ([08:31]).

He argues that simply replicating formats like Joe Rogan’s does not address the unique dynamics of left-leaning audiences.

Preet Bharara points out systemic issues within Democratic media strategies:

“The left gets more listenership when there's opposition, but when they have their own guy in the White House, they go camping” ([09:53]).

This indicates a lack of sustained engagement strategies compared to their conservative counterparts.

Evolving Media Landscape and National Discourse

The guests discuss the broader implications of a polarized podcasting landscape on national conversations.

Ben Shapiro expresses optimism about increasing ideological diversity in podcasting:

“There is such a siphoned informational environment… Podcasting offers that ability” ([07:00]).

Preet Bharara raises concerns about echo chambers and the need for cross-ideological dialogues:

“There should be an openness… to hear people out, but you sometimes see on social media… that’s how we get stuck in our silos” ([12:43]).

They highlight the necessity for podcasts to bridge political divides, fostering more inclusive and comprehensive discussions.

Economic Incentives and Authenticity in Podcasting

The conversation shifts to the financial aspects of podcasting and how economic pressures influence content.

Ben Shapiro differentiates between marketing and substance, maintaining that his show’s straightforward style resonates with listeners:

“By brutal, we just mean we're not shading it, we're not hiding it” ([18:13]).

Preet Bharara discusses the challenges of monetizing podcasts while maintaining quality:

“It's hard to make money in a podcast… There's a gap financially and economically between the model of radio and the model of podcasting” ([21:30]).

Both guests agree that financial sustainability remains a critical hurdle for widespread podcast adoption beyond established names.

Future Outlook: The Continuing Evolution of Media Consumption

In concluding remarks, Shapiro and Bharara project the future trajectory of podcasting within the media landscape.

Ben Shapiro anticipates a significant shift away from legacy media, asserting:

“This election may have been the death knell of legacy media's trust… It was already going down” ([20:47]).

Preet Bharara envisions expansive growth for podcasting, emphasizing its low barriers to entry:

“Until every human on the planet has a podcast, we haven't hit maximum growth” ([21:30]).

They predict that continued advancements in social media integration and increased platform support will further entrench podcasting as a dominant medium for political and cultural discourse.

Conclusion

This episode of The Journal underscores the pivotal role of podcasting in shaping contemporary political landscapes. Through the insights of Ben Shapiro and Preet Bharara, listeners gain a deeper understanding of how podcasts have become essential tools for political communication, audience engagement, and the ongoing evolution of media consumption. The dialogue highlights both the opportunities and challenges within the podcasting industry, suggesting that its influence on politics will only grow in the years to come.

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Shapiro on podcasting’s impact:
  “Podcasts granted access to platforms that legacy media couldn’t, allowing President Trump to reach audiences without traditional filters” ([00:57]).

• Preet Bharara on podcast authenticity:
  “In the long form, it's hard to bullshit who you are… It gives people a better sense of who the candidate is” ([04:27]).

• Ben Shapiro on economic incentives:
  “By brutal, we just mean we're not shading it, we're not hiding it” ([18:13]).

• Preet Bharara on podcast growth:
  “Until every human on the planet has a podcast, we haven't hit maximum growth” ([21:30]).

Attributions:

• Ryan Knudsen - Host of The Journal.
• Ben Shapiro - Conservative podcaster, co-founder of The Daily Wire.
• Preet Bharara - Former U.S. Attorney, Democratic commentator.

The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Special thanks to Ben Shapiro and Preet Bharara for their participation.