Camp Swamp Road Ep. 4: That’s What Heaven Is For

Summary

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The Journal.

Camp Swamp Road Ep. 4: That’s What Heaven Is For

Date: October 5, 2025
Host: Valerie Borlein (for The Wall Street Journal & Spotify Studios)

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Overview

The fourth and final episode of “Camp Swamp Road” unpacks the fallout after newly uncovered evidence points to systemic police misconduct in the handling of Scott Spivey's fatal shooting. As Scott’s sister, Jennifer Foley, campaigns for justice, the episode explores institutional responses, state and local politics, the interpretation of South Carolina’s stand your ground law, and how similar laws impact homicide rates across America. The narrative weaves personal pain, public outrage, and the implications for future cases, culminating in an exploration of what justice and accountability truly mean.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shocking Evidence and Internal Police Investigations

• Discovery of the “Act Like a Victim” Note

  • Jennifer Foley uncovers 90 police phone calls and surveillance video, revealing officers’ attempts to coach the accused and cover up police misconduct.
  • [04:05] Notable moment: Sgt. Damon Viscovy writes and shows a notepad to Boyd and Williams:

    “ACT LIKE A VICTIM CAMERA”

  • The footage, found by a Luna Shark Media journalist, leads to Viscovy’s abrupt firing [07:14].

• Police Misconduct and Fallout

  • Horry County Police Chief Chris Lenhart terminates more officers, investigates missing and mislabeled body/dash cam footage.
  • Internal and state-level probes commence as video evidence emerges of officers instructing suspects and turning cameras off for hours [07:43].
  • Lenhart:

    “We have discovered... seven additional videos that were improperly labeled... reviewed and sent over to SLED.” ([07:26])

2. Public Outcry and Jennifer Foley’s Advocacy

• Rallying the Community and Speaking to Local Government

  • Jennifer addresses a packed Horry County Council, describing her brother’s treatment and the mishandling of evidence [11:46]:

    “The words hanging over the door... read ‘Professionals at Work.’ For my family, these words carry a hollow meaning.”

  • Scott’s body was left in his truck for six hours, then photographed during impoundment [12:04].
  • Big emotional moment as Jennifer recalls Boyd’s confession:

    “Emboy’s own admission in his tape to his mother: ‘Scott knew he was being followed. He just ran me off the road. I chased him.’ … Imagine being chased down and somebody telling you this is a stand your ground case.” ([12:28])

• Increasing Political Support

  • Local lawmakers, e.g., Rep. Lucas Atkinson, argue this wasn’t stand your ground, but murder [14:13]:

    “It’s just hard for me to believe.”

  • Nine legislators write the governor asking the case be reopened.
  • Public pressure and social media campaigns intensify.

3. Stand Your Ground Law Under Fire – Political and Legal Responses

• Governor Henry McMaster Interview [15:24]

  • Discusses intent behind stand your ground law, expressing concern about its possible misuse in Spivey’s case:

    “It would be a unusual circumstance to have a law that's intended to do something good that could be used for such an injustice... I think they're entitled to some answers.” ([16:42])

• South Carolina Attorney General Allen Wilson Interview [22:03, 24:20]

  • Defends decision not to reopen case, focusing solely on Boyd’s state of mind at the moment of shooting, as heard on 911, not after-the-fact phone calls:

    “The closest we can get to Mr. Boyd’s state of mind is what he’s saying in real time on 911...” ([25:29])

  • Dismisses police misconduct as irrelevant to stand your ground analysis:

    “Two things can be true at once. Law enforcement does something bad... but does that change the facts of what Mr. Boyd perceived at the time?” ([29:06])

  • On criticism and politics:

    “This is not a pro-Boyd or anti-Spivey decision... prosecutors reviewed facts, law, made a dispassionate decision, as we were to do, without any regard for politics.” ([30:42])

• Political Fallout and National Context

  • Congresswoman Nancy Mace leverages the issue against Wilson in the governor’s race, vocally supporting the Spivey family ([23:02]).
  • Jennifer warns:

    “If that’s what he’s going to say, then literally every murder case in the state... can just say, ‘I was in fear for my life, so I shot.’” ([31:11])

  • Valerie notes broader trends: Stand your ground laws have led to a documented increase in homicides ([33:33]), “murder insurance” industry, and innumerable uninvestigated shootings.

4. The Civil Suit and What Comes Next

• Upcoming Wrongful Death Lawsuit Hearing [35:38]

  • Judge Eugene C. “Bubba” Griffith Jr. will rule if immunity applies for Boyd and Williams.
  • Jennifer:

    “Best case scenario is the judge says this doesn’t qualify for stand your ground... Worst case... [they] receive criminal and civil immunity. My wrongful death case is dismissed. It squashes everything.” ([35:11])

• Defense Attorney Morgan Martin’s View [36:13]

  • Reiterates support for his client Bradley Williams:

    “He was clearly acting in self defense and so I want to defend him.”

  • On police misconduct:

    “Some... comments were unfortunate... but that doesn’t change the facts of what happened.” ([37:26])

5. Grief, Unanswered Questions, and Legacy

• Jennifer’s Reflections on Loss [40:24, 41:12]
  • Struggles to make sense of Scott’s behavior that day and to process grief while fighting the system.
  • Emotional closing:

    “You can’t grieve if you’re always fighting. The steps don’t exist... Sometimes I break down because I think... why did this have to happen to you? Why can’t people do the right thing?” ([41:12], [41:31])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sgt. Viscovy instructs suspects:

  “ACT LIKE A VICTIM CAMERA” [04:05]

• Jennifer’s outrage on police misconduct:

  "How can these people live with themselves?... And say, I did a good job today..." [04:21]

• Rep. Lucas Atkinson’s summary:

  “It wasn’t stand your ground; it was murder, in my opinion.” [14:13]

• Gov. McMaster’s concern:

  “You got a dead man for no good reason. That’s not good... That’s what heaven’s for.” [17:33]

• Allen Wilson’s reliance on 911 calls for intent:

  “The closest we can get to Mr. Boyd’s state of mind is what he’s saying in real time on 911...” [25:29]

• Jennifer’s warning on precedent:

  "You're literally opening up Pandora's box... If you're saying this is okay, get ready because you're going to have a lot more cases." [31:33]

• Jennifer on her family’s experience:

  “I'm advocating for my mama's son. He was somebody that was loved... He deserved to have due process. My family deserved to have due process.” [40:36]

• Jennifer on her inability to grieve:

  “You can't grieve if you're always fighting.” [41:12]

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:56–04:16: Jennifer discovers evidence of police coaching and corruption.
• 06:42–08:38: Police chief holds press conference, fires officers, launches further investigation into mishandled evidence.
• 11:15–13:35: Jennifer addresses the Horry County Council, receives standing ovation.
• 14:07–15:23: State legislators campaign for the case to be reopened.
• 15:24–17:11: Interview with Governor McMaster.
• 22:03–31:11: Interview with Attorney General Allen Wilson; focus on state of mind, legal interpretations, politics.
• 33:32–34:56: National impact of stand your ground laws and increase in homicides.
• 35:11–38:42: Details and stakes of Jennifer’s wrongful death lawsuit; defense attorney’s perspective.
• 39:13–42:21: Jennifer’s personal grief and account of the struggle for justice.

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Conclusion

This episode weaves the Spivey family’s pursuit of justice with the unraveling of law enforcement misconduct, political self-interest, and the far-reaching consequences of “stand your ground” laws. Despite public and legislative attention, legal obstacles remain formidable. The episode closes on Jennifer Foley’s unresolved grief, the impending civil hearing, and the broader question of how laws intended to protect can be twisted, leaving victims’ families searching for accountability.

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Listeners are encouraged to follow further reporting on The Journal podcast and The Wall Street Journal for updates on both the Spivey case and the national discussion around self-defense and stand your ground laws.

Transcript

[Valerie Borlein]

A word of warning. This series contains descriptions of violence and strong language, including unbleep curse words. Please be advised. Previously on Camp Swamp Road.

[Jennifer Foley]

And there they were.

[Valerie Borlein]

What?

[Jennifer Foley]

The 90 phone calls.

[Valerie Borlein]

All these officers are saying, we're fine. They're saying. They keep telling each other, this is cut and dry. This is cut and dry.

[Allen Wilson]

I was working.

[Morgan Martin]

I was in the shadows last night. I weren't there, but I was in the shadows. I chased him.

[Valerie Borlein]

Oh, I was on his ass and he couldn't. His truck couldn't outrun my truck. And he knew it. So, yeah, he was terrified.

[Jennifer Foley]

No one listened to these. And then they want to stand in front of my family and say, we looked at all the evidence and we've come to this conclusion.

[Valerie Borlein]

For more than two years, Jennifer Foley has been an advocate for her brother, Scott Spivey, and she says she wants accountability for his killers, Weldon Boyd and Bradley Williams. Boyd and Williams deny any wrongdoing. With the discovery of 90 phone calls in the police file, Jennifer found a window into Weldon Boyd's mind. But she also stumbled across evidence of corruption within the Horry County Police department. In early March 2025, Jennifer's lawyer, Mark Tinsley, notified Horry county police about the calls. They quickly opened an internal investigation. The first domino to fall was Deputy Chief Brandon Strickland. Strickland and Boyd had talked over the phone multiple times in the hours and days after the shooting. In the calls, Strickland seems to be offering help to Boyd, saying he had the right people coming. Strickland had been a rising star in the force, on track to becoming Chief of police. But just days after the Horry County Police Department found out that the calls existed, Strickland was forced to retire. Strickland's lawyer, Bert Von Herman, said his client didn't know he was being recorded and regrets the tone of some of his comments. The lawyer added, quote, there's a huge difference between public corruption and poor taste. But there was more, a lot more beyond the calls between Strickland and Boyd. The police file contained hours of body cam and dash cam footage from Camp Swamp Road. And that footage revealed that Brandon Strickland wasn't the only officer trying to help Weldon Boyd on the night of the shooting.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You dumb ass.

[Valerie Borlein]

That's Sergeant Damon Viscovy. Remember him? He's the officer who helped manage the crime scene.

[Morgan Martin]

Get your car out of the way now.

[Valerie Borlein]

Around 40 minutes after Viscovy arrives at Camp Swamp Road, he makes a phone call. We don't know who he's talking to.

[Morgan Martin]

Hey, are you coming up here?

[Jennifer Foley]

Well, you suck.

[Valerie Borlein]

Who you sending Watching Vescovi's body cam, you can see he's standing next to his cruiser with the door open. Right after he hangs up the phone, he scribbles something down on a notepad, out of view. Muscovy picks up the notepad and flips it around. As the pages flick by, his body cam catches what he wrote. The message is almost impossible to see until you slow the footage down. Way down. Frame by frame, written in all caps. Act like a Victim Camera. Viscovy takes his note and walks over to Boyd and Williams, who are sitting on the back of Boyd's trailer. Viscovy stands in front of them with the notepad. He says nothing. Boyd and Williams look up at him. Boyd's eyes go wide.

[Jennifer Foley]

I was like, you're kidding me. It just keeps getting more and more absurd.

[Valerie Borlein]

When she was made aware of the act like a victim note, Jennifer was shocked.

[Jennifer Foley]

How can these people live with themselves? How can they go home at night.

[Valerie Borlein]

And look at themselves in the mirror.

[Jennifer Foley]

And say, I did a good job today. My job is to protect and serve and I did a daggone good job today.

[Valerie Borlein]

Over a year ago, the State Attorney General's office closed their file on the Scott Spivey case. Jennifer wants it reopened to her. All these examples of police corruption, the Brandon Strickland calls, and now the Viscovy note. They prove that there was a miscarriage of justice. But not everyone in law enforcement will see it that way.

[Morgan Martin]

Foreign.

[Valerie Borlein]

I'm Valerie Borlein and this is Camp Swamp Road, A series from the Journal. Coming up, our Last Episode, Episode 4 that's what Heaven Is For.

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[Valerie Borlein]

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[Valerie Borlein]

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[Morgan Martin]

All right. So good afternoon. I want to welcome you all here to discuss a news release we have just released.

[Valerie Borlein]

On April 30th of this year, Horry County Police Chief Chris Linhart held a press conference.

[Morgan Martin]

Horry County Police Department has terminated a patrol division sergeant as part of an ongoing internal affairs investigation related to employee conduct in the Camp Swamp Road shooting investigation from September of 2023.

[Valerie Borlein]

The act like a victim note was first found by an investigative journalist with Luna Shark Media, a podcast company based in South Carolina. Act like after the note was discovered, Sergeant Viscovy was quickly fired.

[Morgan Martin]

Effective April 30, 2025, Paul Damon Viscovy is no longer an employee of Horry County.

[Valerie Borlein]

And then just days after Viscovy was fired, Chief Lenhart held yet another press conference.

[Morgan Martin]

We have discovered last week seven additional videos that were improperly labeled. Those were reviewed and sent over to SLED as a continuation of the misconduct investigation as well as our internal affairs investigation to conduct.

[Valerie Borlein]

Lenhart said three Horry county police officers were facing disciplinary action after hearing that some of the body and dash cam footage from Camp Swamp Road was quote, improperly labeled. I went deeper into the footage myself and what I discovered was not only had there been mislabeled footage, but there was also almost two hours of footage that didn't seem to have been recorded at all. At the crime scene, right around 7pm the ranking police officer gives a direction that other officers turn off their cameras. The body cams do not appear to go back on until just after 9pm when asked why the officers were told to turn off their cameras, the Horry County Police department didn't respond. Beyond the internal investigation, a state level investigation is launched into official misconduct within the Horry County Police Department. What had started as an open and shut case of self defense was now turning into a full blown crisis.

[Allen Wilson]

A fatal road rage incident involving 33 year old Scott Spivey is under renewed scrutiny after an audio recording came to light.

[Valerie Borlein]

Phone call recordings we recently obtained and played for you last night reveal conversations between the shooter and his. Over a year and a half after Scott Spivey was killed, corruption in the Horry County Police department had become headline news statewide. Chief Lenhart says the Horry County Police department now has three investig that will work on the Spivey case every day to review any misconduct and policy violations by the police department. And on TikTok people are debating the finer points of the Spivey case. Scott Spivey was killed in a stand.

[Jennifer Foley]

Your ground self defense case or at.

[Valerie Borlein]

Least that's what they called it initially. At what point do they think that maybe spivey feared for his life and was trying to get away? Act like a victim.

[Jennifer Foley]

Camera.

[Valerie Borlein]

Google the name Weldon Boyd.

[Jennifer Foley]

Go on facebook and search up the name Weldon Boyd.

[Valerie Borlein]

Weldon boyd took to facebook. He posted what he called a press release on the page of his restaurant boys on the boulevard. In it, he wrote, quote, enough is enough with the lies, conspiracy of politicians, family court attorneys, the shooter's attorneys and tiktokers who seek to profit from misinformation. I've remained compliant and silent throughout investigations and a civil suit motivated by money. When did the momentum. When did you start to feel it shifting?

[Jennifer Foley]

When I felt like everybody started saying this isn't right. And they started being very vocal about it and they were like, what can we do? Like people are reaching out saying, what can we do?

[Valerie Borlein]

South Carolina Highway 9 headed straight towards the northern state line. Feelings about this case have run high in Horry county. A song has even been written about Scott spivey by a musician from the area. Standing your ground with no ground is there.

[Allen Wilson]

Firing rounds into his bag make.

[Valerie Borlein]

You feel like a man. In response to the public outrage, the Horry county council invited Jennifer to speak at one of its meetings.

[Morgan Martin]

Next up is Jennifer Crowley. If I mispronounce that, I apologize.

[Valerie Borlein]

The council wanted to hear what she had to say, and so did the public. The chamber is packed.

[Jennifer Foley]

Good evening. Before I begin, can I ask, if you don't mind everyone that is here for Scott tonight, if you allow them to stand up to see the support, would you mind that before I get started?

[Morgan Martin]

I believe we see them there, but that will be fine with us. I don't think anybody would object.

[Valerie Borlein]

The council members watch as almost the entire room stands up.

[Jennifer Foley]

The words hanging over the door of Horry county police department reads, professionals at work. Familiar for you? These words carry a hollow meaning for my family.

[Valerie Borlein]

Jennifer speaks for several minutes, laying out everything that her family experienced at the hands of the Horry county police department, including the way they treated her brother's body.

[Jennifer Foley]

Scott was left in his truck in 77 degree heat for six hours, sealed up and towed across county to have his body drug out on the ground, stripped and photographed in the impound lot.

[Valerie Borlein]

Jennifer tells the council what she heard in Weldon Boyd's phone calls, that this wasn't a stand your ground case right from the beginning.

[Jennifer Foley]

Emboy's own admission in his tape to his mother. Between me and you, mama. Yes. Scott knew he Was being followed. He just ran me off the road. And I was like, f that guy. And I chased him. I. I was on his ass, and his truck couldn't outrun mine. And Scott knew it. Scott was terrified. Those are his words. Imagine being chased down and somebody telling you that this is a stand your ground case.

[Valerie Borlein]

Jennifer implores the council to ask the governor of south carolina to appoint an independent prosecutor.

[Jennifer Foley]

All we have ever wanted was the truth. And we will continue to advocate for Scott's case to be reopened with a thorough investigation by an honest prosecutor who is willing to actually review all the evidence, Apply south carolina's laws to the actions of that day.

[Valerie Borlein]

When she finishes her speech, the crowd gives Jennifer a standing ovation.

[Jennifer Foley]

And I pray that you all sleep tonight Knowing that no blind eye can be turned to Scott stivey anymore. Thank you.

[Morgan Martin]

Thank you, ma'. Am.

[Valerie Borlein]

Thank. Hold on. Just over a year earlier, the south carolina attorney general's office had closed the spivey case. Jennifer and her family had been alone in calling for the case to be reopened. Now, with the discovery of the phone calls and the corruption at the horry county police department, the spiveys were gaining new allies.

[Morgan Martin]

I firmly believe this was not a stand your ground situation.

[Valerie Borlein]

Lucas atkinson is a state legislator whose district includes part of horry county. I spoke to him in a coffee shop not far from camp swamp road.

[Morgan Martin]

No matter what the law says in this, I mean, that's just my opinion.

[Valerie Borlein]

If it does not stand your ground, what is it?

[Morgan Martin]

I mean, I think it was just murder. Let's say I have a gun on my side. We argue, I turn around and leave. Can you sit there and chase me eight miles down the road and just. We get out and you shoot and kill me? I mean, I just. I just. Hard for me to believe, you know, it's just hard for me to believe that.

[Valerie Borlein]

Lucas is one of nine state legislators who wrote a letter to Henry mcmaster, the governor of south carolina. The group asked the governor to reopen the case, saying, quote, many of our constituents believe the incident was prematurely deemed self defense. I've known Henry mcmaster for a long time. I first met him years ago when I was a state politics reporter in columbia, the capital of south carolina. Governor mcmaster hadn't formally responded to the lawmaker's letter about the spivey case, and I wanted to find out why. Governor. Hey.

[Morgan Martin]

You're looking good.

[Valerie Borlein]

You as well. So good to see you. I met up with governor mcmaster in July. We sat down in plush chairs in an Ornate library inside the governor's mansion. At McMaster's feet was his English bulldog, Mac.

[Morgan Martin]

Is this the right chair to be sitting in? Oh, you ain't taking a picture, are you? No, this is a podcast. A podcast.

[Valerie Borlein]

Podcast. I asked about the law at the center of this story. South Carolina's stand your ground law was an expansion of pre existing self defense laws. It removed the duty to retreat when a person is in fear for their life and in a place where they have the right to be, including their vehicle. Governor McMaster was a state attorney general in 2006 when the law was enacted. Were you a supporter of it?

[Morgan Martin]

Sure.

[Valerie Borlein]

Why?

[Morgan Martin]

You ought to be able to stand your ground if somebody's pushing you around. I mean, I know you turn the other cheek and those kind of things, but how far do you have to run? Do you have to keep running if they keep coming? I think it's very reasonable.

[Valerie Borlein]

The governor told me that the way stand you'd ground is being interpreted in the Spavi case raises some serious questions.

[Morgan Martin]

It would be a unusual circumstance to have a law that's intended to do something good that could be used for such an injustice. If this. But we don't. I don't know the facts, so I can't say who's right or who's wrong. I think there's some questions. I think they are entitled to some answers. I don't know if we'll get them, but I think they're entitled.

[Valerie Borlein]

It's not the governor's role to reopen this case or appoint a special Prosecutor, but Governor McMaster does have a powerful voice in South Carolina and he could put pressure on law enforcement to look at the criminal case again. So far, he hasn't done that. However, he does have a few words for the Spavi family.

[Morgan Martin]

Sorry the whole thing happened. I mean, you got a dead man for no good reason. That's not good. And they'll never get over it. This case, this incident, this death, is a tragedy. It seems like we just were full of tragedies. Wish we had lives without tragedies. That's what heaven's for.

[Valerie Borlein]

Ultimately, Governor McMaster says that the decision to reopen the Spivey case isn't his to make. That decision lies with South Carolina's Attorney General. I speak to him next.

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[Valerie Borlein]

Optimism isn't sunshine and rainbows. It's fixing things, Changing things, changing the way we fix things. Rolled up sleeves, breaking through growing power to meet growing needs. Working to run the world on smarter energy every day taking power where the grids never been, then getting up and doing it again. Because if optimism never stops, then change can't either. GE Vernova the Energy of Change the power to bring criminal charges in the Scott Spivey case rests with South Carolina Attorney General Allen Wilson. His office closed the case back in 2024. Wilson had said very little about Scott Spivey since then, but in August of this year he released a statement. In that statement, Wilson reaffirmed his office's original decision that what happened on Camp Swamp Road was clearly a stand your ground case. What was your reaction?

[Jennifer Foley]

A news reporter sent it to me and they're like, we just got this. It was leaked to us. We just wanted to make sure you were the first one to know about it. And I read it and I couldn't get past the second paragraph. And after that, I mean, I just laid in my kitchen floor and I just cried hysterically.

[Valerie Borlein]

In the August statement, Wilson said, quote, if new material evidence comes to light, whether through the ongoing civil proceedings, further investigation, or new reports to law enforcement, we are fully prepared to reevaluate the case. To Jennifer Weldon Boyd's phone calls were new material evidence because when Wilson's office closed the case back in 2024, no one there had actually listened to them. The recordings did not factor into their decision. Jennifer couldn't accept that Attorney General Wilson could listen to these recordings now and stand by his original decision to not bring criminal charges. I followed Alan Wilson's career for a long time, and I also sat behind him in a courtroom for six weeks on a Different case. After his statement on the Spivey killing, I put in a request for an interview and Wilson agreed to talk.

[Allen Wilson]

Doing well. I've got about 15 or so ish minutes, so I don't know if, I don't know if that gives you.

[Valerie Borlein]

I won't offer any chitchat. Let's go. Wilson is a busy man. In addition to being Attorney General, he recently launched a campaign for governor of South Carolina. He's vying to win next year's Republican primary. Why should people vote for you to be governor?

[Allen Wilson]

Well, as the four term attorney General, I have taken many positions in support of South Carolina's laws in defense of the Constitution. When you think about who the next governor is, the next governor is the commander of the National Guard. And making tough decisions is something the governor has to do and that is something I have had to do as Attorney general. The very reason for this interview right now is to answer, to make tough decisions and then be held accountable for them.

[Valerie Borlein]

Wilson has been getting a lot of criticism for his decision not to reopen the Scott Spivey case. That criticism is coming from voters and other elected officials, especially in Horry County. The loudest attacks, though, are from Wilson's main opponent in the governor's race.

[Jennifer Foley]

Let's welcome your next South Carolina America.

[Valerie Borlein]

First, Governor Maga Mace. South Carolina Congresswoman Nancy Mace describes herself as, quote, Trump in high heels. She argues that the criminal investigation into the death of Scott Spivey should be reopened. Mace has even met with the Spivey family and posted photos with them on Facebook. In Horry county over the summer, Mace spoke at a campaign event. The Attorney General of South Carolina who.

[Jennifer Foley]

Is refusing to investigate the death and the killing of Scott Spivey. And there are tapes, we know that he was chased nine miles down the road.

[Valerie Borlein]

I spoke with Nancy Mace. She believes that there was a real injustice here. And with this message, Mace is hoping to win over voters in Horry county. And those voters are important. Horry is one of the biggest Republican strongholds in South Carolina. It's key to winning any statewide election. To Jennifer, it seems that Allen Wilson released the statement in August to get ahead of his opponents in the governor's race. But when I asked the attorney general about that, he said that the statement had nothing to do with politics.

[Allen Wilson]

Here's the thing, the political thing to do would be to reopen this investigative file that we no longer have. It's been handed back and to come to a different conclusion. That would be the political thing to do. We don't have any friends to reward or we don't have any enemies to punish. All we have are the facts of this case and the law as we have. That's all we have.

[Valerie Borlein]

I wanted to ask Allen Wilson about everything that Jennifer had found and whether it factored into his decision that this is a stand your ground case. I asked him about what Weldon Boyd said in his phone calls. Things quickly got tense. As you know, Weld, from these calls, Mr. Boyd has said, I was on his ass. I was chasing him. He was terrified. He could not run.

[Allen Wilson]

When did Mr. Boyd.

[Morgan Martin]

Does that matter?

[Allen Wilson]

Well, first off, the statements. First off, I think the statements are reprehensible. But Mr. Boyd said. When did Mr. Boyd say that?

[Valerie Borlein]

He said that within 48 hours of the death. He said at some of his recorded calls.

[Allen Wilson]

So, yes, he said that.

[Valerie Borlein]

He's telling you his own. That's the closest we can get to his state of mind.

[Allen Wilson]

No, actually, you're incorrect. The closest we can get to Mr. Boyd's state of mind is what he's saying in real time on 911, when he's actually involved. When he's following after he is just been run off the road by Mr. Spivey.

[Valerie Borlein]

Hey, I've got a guy pointing a gun at me driving. We're armed as well. He keeps throwing the gun in our faces, acting like he's about to shoot us. If he keeps this up, I'm gonna shoot him.

[Allen Wilson]

We have his state of mind as he is talking to the 911 operator. So that 911 call that occurred prior to the shooting is relevant to going to Mr. Boyd's state of mind?

[Valerie Borlein]

I didn't do any. I was talking to my friend. We're trailering couches, and this dude just. My buddy's like, what the fuck? And he's got a gun aimed at us.

[Allen Wilson]

Next to us, all the witnesses you're talking about, Everything leading up to that moment in time was multiple witnesses, including Mr. Boyd, describing an erratic driver.

[Jennifer Foley]

He's all over the road, and I.

[Valerie Borlein]

Have his license plate number.

[Jennifer Foley]

Okay, okay.

[Valerie Borlein]

He's waving the gun right now. He's waving it out the window at everybody. I don't know if he's under the.

[Jennifer Foley]

Influence of anything because he's all over the road.

[Allen Wilson]

The multiple eyewitnesses that witness the same thing. Mr. Boyd is telling the 911 operator that corroborate Mr. Boyd's version of the facts. Go to the truthfulness of what Mr. Boyd is saying.

[Valerie Borlein]

Mr. Boyd, let me ask you this then. Have you Heard these calls? Sure.

[Allen Wilson]

Yes. Yes, I've heard these calls.

[Valerie Borlein]

And do they matter? Do they matter?

[Allen Wilson]

The calls matter. To. To the extent that you have to. What was Mr. Boyd's intent at the time of the shoot? Excuse me? What was his state of mind at the time of his shooting? What was his intent?

[Valerie Borlein]

According to Wilson's interpretation of South Carolina stand your ground law, the only thing that matters is Boyd's state of mind when he pulled the trigger. And Wilson says the only relevant phone calls that reflect that state of mind are the ones made to 911.

[Allen Wilson]

Now, if Mr. Boyd's statements were something to the effect of, I was gonna get that guy. I've been trying to kill him for several days, and we planned this whole. That's different. But him.

[Valerie Borlein]

But it was. And forgive me for saying this, it was. I had a fucking blast. I enjoyed it. I mean, doesn't that belie him being in fear of his life?

[Allen Wilson]

Horrible statements, Reprehensible. But the. And that is evidence that somebody might want to use to make that argument you're making. You know, Mr. Boyd had a legal right to be on the road. Mr. Boyd even had a legal right to perform a citizen's arrest. I'm not saying it would have been good judgment, but what I'm saying is, is at the point of the shooting, and I'm going to paraphrase the stand you'd ground law, but the stand your ground law says that if you are somewhere you have a lawful right to be, and while you were there, you believe that someone means to cause you imminent harm or death, you are allowed under the law to meet force with force. Okay. And including deadly force. And did Mr. Boyd have a right to be on that public road legally? He did. Did Mr. Boyd, based on the evidence that we currently have, did he appear to be in fear imminently of his life being ended? He said that multiple times to the 911 operator.

[Valerie Borlein]

I also wanted to ask Wilson about misconduct within the Horry County Police Department. When we get to that, Wilson says that whatever the police did, it's irrelevant to whether this was stand your ground.

[Allen Wilson]

Two things can be true at once. Law enforcement does something bad or is incompetent at their job. I don't know what the answer will be. But does that change the facts of what Mr. Boyd perceived and all those motorists perceived at the time that they saw Mr. Spivey get out of his car with his pistol?

[Valerie Borlein]

But those same officers were the recorder of the facts, right? They provided the 911 calls they took the witness statements, all that sort of thing. Can we trust that evidence?

[Allen Wilson]

Are you asking me can I trust a video with my own eyes? I mean, look, if there is. Here's the thing, Valerie, what are you asking me? Are you saying that if a bad cop. We take a bad cop's body cam or a 911 operator's video recording and we say because they're bad, that the video recording and the video footage is somehow tainted?

[Valerie Borlein]

But what I'm asking, Allen, is we have the deputy chief saying, I have the right ones coming. We have video of an officer coaching Mr. Boyd on how to act. The investigation came to you in a way that is suspect that.

[Allen Wilson]

Valerie, if something changes the facts of the shooting, we're happy to review those facts in light of the facts as we've given them.

[Valerie Borlein]

Jennifer told me that she and her family had contacted Allen Wilson's office multiple times in hopes of trying to talk with him. In our interview, Wilson said he was unaware that they had called. He has since reached out to them. Do you have any message for them, for the family?

[Allen Wilson]

Absolutely. I think. I think Mr. Spivey's death is tragic. I think it's horrible, and I hate that it happened. I am not. This is not a pro Boyd decision and an anti Spivey decision. This is a decision by prosecutors in my office who reviewed facts, reviewed law, applied them, made a dispassionate decision, as we were to do, without any regard for politics.

[Jennifer Foley]

If that's what he's going to say, then literally every murder case in the state of South Carolina can just say, hey, I was in fear for my life, so I shot and killed him.

[Valerie Borlein]

Jennifer is worried that Wilson's interpretation of the law could set a dangerous precedent, that there could be many more Scott Spiveys, more homicides that go uninvestigated just because the killer said they were in fear for their life.

[Jennifer Foley]

You're literally opening up Pandora's box. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't. No one. No one thinks it makes sense. So make it make sense. Alan Wilson, Like I. It doesn't make sense. And that's my fear is, is that if you're saying that this is okay, get ready, because you're getting ready to have a lot more cases because people have under now they know what they can do to get away with it.

[Valerie Borlein]

In the course of my reporting, I was surprised to learn that the future that Jennifer is worried about is already here. Across America, more people are killing other people while claiming to be in fear. For their life. And since I began working on this story, I've heard from other families, families in stand your ground states whose loved ones were killed in shootings and were then told the killer wasn't charged. The more I looked for these kinds of cases, the more I found the driver of the car shot him, telling police he feared for his life. Like the family of Carson Senfield, who was shot after he tried to get into the wrong parked car on his birthday, his family believes Senfield thought the car was an Uber. The shooter, who has not been named, says he feared for his life.

[Jennifer Foley]

He will not fear under Florida's stand your ground law.

[Valerie Borlein]

Are in Kentucky where a man named Walter Trobolo was shot and killed in his driveway by a next door neighbor. Tribola's family says they've been locked out of the police investigation.

[Morgan Martin]

And then I went up to him.

[Jennifer Foley]

And I asked him why? Why, why did you do this?

[Valerie Borlein]

Why did you kill my son?

[Allen Wilson]

Answers she may not get because no.

[Valerie Borlein]

One has been charged. Or in Utah where a family is looking for answers after Patrick Hayes was shot and killed in a road rage incident. The killer has not been charged in connection with the shooting. This guy tried to hit him twice with his truck and then rolls down.

[Jennifer Foley]

His window to shoot him.

[Valerie Borlein]

And then he's claiming self defense. After hearing about these cases, I wanted to find out what broader impact stand your ground laws have had on national homicide rates. Just last year, the Rand Corporation published an in depth analysis of academic research into stand your ground laws. The journal talked with the co author of that report who said that researchers found that there has been a significant increase in gun homicides since these statutes were enacted. Another assessment put a figure on it. The 28 states with stand your ground laws have raised the number of homicides nationally by as much as 700 gun deaths a year. Many of these killings go uninvestigated and killers walk away without charges. These cases have become so much more frequent that gun owners are now able to buy insurance that will cover their legal expenses if they kill in self defense. It's known as murder insurance. An estimated 2 million Americans have signed up for it. Jennifer Foley had hoped the new evidence she uncovered would convince powerful people in South Carolina to reopen the criminal investigation. That isn't happening now. Her only recourse is a wrongful death lawsuit in civil court. The next step is a hearing expected to happen later this year. A judge will decide whether Weldon Boyd and Bradley Williams were really acting in self defense when they killed Scott Spivey. So what are the stakes for in this hearing and what's the best case scenario for you? And what's the worst best case scenario.

[Jennifer Foley]

Is that the judge says that he doesn't believe that this qualifies for stand your ground because there's. They brought the difficulty onto themselves. Worst case scenario? The judge says, nope, this is stand your ground and they receive immunity, which means they get criminal and civil immunity. My wrongful death case is dismissed. You know, it squashes everything.

[Valerie Borlein]

At that hearing. Judge Eugene c. Bubba Griffith Jr. Will hear from witnesses. Throughout my reporting, I have spoken to witnesses who saw what happened leading up to the shooting on Camp Swamp Road. But I've determined that the only three people who actually saw the whole thing were Boyd Williams and Scott Spivey. For several months I've wanted to interview Boyd and Williams, but my request had been denied through their legal team, at least until after the hearing is over in August. However, someone from their side did agree to talk to me. Tell us your name and what you do.

[Morgan Martin]

Well. Morgan, Morgan Martin. I am an attorney of some 45 years, probably.

[Valerie Borlein]

Morgan Martin represents Bradley Williams. He stepped in to help Williams other lawyer, a man named Robert E. Lee iii. When I spoke to Morgan, he wanted to tell me about his client and his client's friend.

[Morgan Martin]

Let me say this, Bradley, Kenneth Bradley Williams. He's a hard working, great American young man. He's the salt of the earth. He's married, he's got a child. He works hard every day. He's quiet. He's a quiet guy. And when I met him, I like him and I believe that he was clearly acting in self defense and so I want to defend him.

[Valerie Borlein]

And what about Weldon Boyd? How would you describe him?

[Morgan Martin]

Well, I don't know Weldon as well, but I think Weldon's a fine young man. From what I can see, he's worked hard. He's a business owner there in North Myrtle Beach.

[Valerie Borlein]

Morgan will be the lead lawyer for the defense team during the hearing and he makes the same argument that Attorney General Allen Wilson makes.

[Morgan Martin]

Some of the statements that I heard, particularly that Mr. Boyd made are unfortunate. And you know, they'd been better off if those comments probably had not been made. But I'll say again that that doesn't change the facts of what happened in.

[Valerie Borlein]

This case to Morgan. Everything that Jennifer uncovered simply isn't relevant to the civil case. And he feels the same way about the police corruption, including the act like a victim. Note.

[Morgan Martin]

I'm not sure why that was done, why anybody felt there was a need for that to be done. And I'm not here to defend nor prosecute the Ore County Police Department in the person of Brandon Strickland or anybody else in this case. The fact from the womb to the tomb, from the beginning to the end, lead conclusively to the finding that this is a stand your ground case. And that's why, you know, I'll be so glad when we get out of the podcast world, with due respect to you, and into the courtroom, so we can try this case.

[Valerie Borlein]

For Jennifer. Everything rests on that hearing. That's what the Spiveys are focused on right now.

[Jennifer Foley]

I'm afraid that I'm going to continue to be met with. With walls and that I will be stonewalled and there will be nothing left that I can do because they have taken every avenue away from me.

[Valerie Borlein]

Beyond all the politics and all the questions about legal statutes and immunity, there is a dead man. And despite all the work Jennifer has done to be her brother's voice in this case, she still doesn't know why he acted the way he did on September 9, 2023. It's a question that's dogged my reporting. Why did Scott Spivey, a man who, according to his family, wouldn't start a fight, brandish a gun on the highway? Why did he break check Weldon Boyd?

[Jennifer Foley]

You know, we won't ever know what started. What happened on September 9th, have no idea. Don't know if we'll ever know. We know how it ended, and it just doesn't. Was Scott a perfect person? No, we none are. I mean, we all have our flaws, and we all know that, you know, that sometimes we reach our limits and things, but it just was. It's hard for us to. To think that this was just a normal day for Scott. Like, this isn't something. This was out of his character.

[Allen Wilson]

I don't know.

[Jennifer Foley]

Just doesn't make sense.

[Valerie Borlein]

Jennifer says that even if her brother did do something wrong in that moment, he didn't deserve to die.

[Jennifer Foley]

I see my mama struggle every day with losing her child. So this isn't just about me advocating for my brother. I'm advocating for my mama's son. He was somebody that was loved. He was somebody. He was a United States citizen who had the same freedoms and liberties as everybody else. He deserved to have due process. My family deserved to have due process.

[Valerie Borlein]

Have you been able to grieve?

[Jennifer Foley]

No. You can't grieve if you're always fighting. There's no. You can't go through those steps. The steps don't exist when there's. You're doing nothing but fighting. There's times I break down because I think.

[Allen Wilson]

Especially.

[Jennifer Foley]

At night, like, I get out my car and I look up at the sky and I'm like, I see all the stars up there and I'm just. I don't know. For some reason, it just hits me that I look up at the source and I say, baby, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Why did this have to happen to you? Why can't people do the right thing? It should be the easiest thing you can do, but for some, it's so. It's the hardest thing.

[Valerie Borlein]

Camp Swamp Road is part of the Journal, which is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. I'm Valerie Borlein. Our producers Heather Rogers. Our senior producer is Rachel Humphries. Editing by Colin McNulty. Additional reporting in this episode from Mark Mehrmont. Special thanks to Kathryn Brewer, Miguel Bustillo, Alexandra Citron Safati, Sam Enriquez, Pie Ga Cari, Carlos Garcia, Maddie Gray, Matt Kwong, Jennifer Levitz, Caroline Light, Josh Locke, ava Lubel, Corey McConnell, Jessica Mendoza, Annie Menoff, Bruce Orwell, Ann, Angela Owens, Falana Patterson, Sarah Platt, Cam Pollock, Griffin Tanner, Nikki Walker and the entire Journal podcast team. Fact checking by Nicole Pasulka. Music Sound design and mixing by Nathan Singapak. Additional music by Peter Leonard and Alex Rogers. Music Our theme music is by so Wylie. Remixed for the series by Nathan Singapak. Thanks for listening and stay tuned. We plan on following this story over the coming weeks and months. Keep an eye out for updates in the Wall Street Journal and the journal podcast.

[Jennifer Foley]

Fellow.

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