Camp Swamp Road Ep. 5: Jacksonville

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Journal – "Camp Swamp Road Ep. 5: Jacksonville"

Release Date: December 23, 2025
Hosts: Valerie Borlein, Hannah Critchfield
Podcast: The Journal (Spotify & The Wall Street Journal)

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Overview

This episode dives into the intersection of "stand your ground" laws and the criminal justice system in Jacksonville, Florida. Using a recent case—the killing of 16-year-old Kalian Fedrick—as a lens, reporters explore how police and prosecutors apply justifiable homicide rulings, often without clear claims of self-defense or judicial oversight. The episode also brings key updates on the Scott Spivey case from previous episodes, highlighting the procedural complexity and emotional toll on victims' families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Landscape of Stand Your Ground Laws

• Scope: Thirty U.S. states now have "stand your ground" laws, allowing broader use of deadly force in public if a person feels threatened.
• Consequences: A sharp increase in killings ruled as justifiable homicides; potential for misuse or unintended effects.
• Key Question: “Who gets labeled as the victim and who do you believe when the other side is dead?” (Valerie Borlein, 00:44)

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2. The Jacksonville Context

• Stats: Jacksonville leads large U.S. cities in the share of homicides classified as justifiable by civilians.
• Case Highlight: The September 2023 death of Kalian Fedrick, a 16-year-old shot near his home, exemplifies how cases are closed as justified—even when no one formally claims self-defense.

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3. The Killing of Kalian Fedrick

Timeline & Investigation

• Incident: Fedrick is shot near a convenience store; his mother, Latoya Williams, hears the gunfire nearby (03:27–03:47).
• Family Perspective: Williams arrives to find her son dying; he urges her to call 911. She is denied a ride in the ambulance and must walk to the hospital, highlighting the family's limited resources (03:59–04:52).
• Suspect: Anthony Jean Pierre, an ex-felon shot in the hand at the scene, claims to have been an innocent bystander. He is arrested on unrelated charges and does not cooperate with police (05:15–06:11).
• Police Work: Police canvass the area but find no eyewitnesses; a recovered gun does not match shell casings. Weeks later, a tipster’s rumor links Fedrick's shooting to an attempted robbery (07:25–07:54).

Systemic Issues

• Distrust & Silence: The investigation stalls largely due to lack of cooperation, described as typical in communities with strained relationships with police (08:13).
• Case Closure: Police and prosecution agree, based on the available information, that Fedrick was the “primary aggressor” and label the death justifiable homicide—even though Pierre never claims self-defense (09:57–10:29).
• Discretion of Authorities: “The decision to categorize something as justifiable and not pursue murder or manslaughter charges is discretionary.” (Hannah Critchfield, 10:38)

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4. Data, Incentives, and the Broader Impact

• Investigation Time: Police spent roughly 36 hours—about four days—on the case over a year (11:34).
• Crime Statistics: Justifiable homicides are excluded from official murder rates, affecting public perceptions and local reputations (13:21–13:42).
• Expert Insight: Stand your ground “became sort of a garbage dump for difficult to handle homicide cases.” (Expert via Hannah Critchfield, 14:18)
• Socioeconomic Factors: Many justifiable homicides occur in low-income neighborhoods; families often lack the resources to challenge official rulings (14:40).

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5. The Personal Toll on Families

• Lack of Communication: Latoya Williams was unaware the case had been closed until contacted by the reporter—neither police nor prosecutors informed her (16:57–19:31).
• Family’s Response: Williams is left confused, angry, and feeling powerless.
  • Quote: “Who is making it justifiable? ... Who are you to judge the situation if you’re not a judge?” (Latoya Williams, 19:52–20:23)
• Socioeconomic Hardship: The family’s lack of resources, combined with grief, makes it nearly impossible to challenge or even understand the justice system’s decision (20:28).

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6. Update on the Scott Spivey Case

• Recap: The South Carolina attorney general closed the case, but new investigations have been triggered due to separate police misconduct allegations (21:38–22:56).
• Family Impact: Jennifer Spivey, Scott’s sister, describes her devastation at the case’s closure and guarded hope as a special prosecutor is appointed:
  • Quote: “At least I got it this far.” (Jennifer Spivey, 23:33)
• New Developments:
  • Special prosecutor Barry Barnett may reopen the investigation and potentially empanel a grand jury.
  • Simultaneously, a civil wrongful death lawsuit—through an immunity hearing—could independently determine whether the killing was justifiable (24:13–26:01).
  • Jennifer’s emotional journey is ongoing:
    • Quote: “I don’t see the finish line yet, but I know that I’m a lot closer ... than I was to start off with.” (Jennifer Spivey, 26:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Stand your ground became sort of a garbage dump for difficult to handle homicide cases.”
  — Unnamed expert (via Hannah Critchfield), [14:18]

• “Who is making it justifiable? ... Who are you to judge the situation if you’re not a judge?”
  — Latoya Williams, [19:56–20:23]

• “You can have a justifiable homicide without a person claiming self defense. You don’t need to have someone come forward.”
  — Hannah Critchfield, [10:14]

• “I just laid in my kitchen floor and I just cried hysterically.”
  — Jennifer Spivey, reacting to the closure of her brother’s case, [22:02]

• “At least I got it this far.”
  — Jennifer Spivey, on new investigation step, [23:33]

• “I don’t see the finish line yet, but ... I’m a lot closer to the finish line than I was to start off with.”
  — Jennifer Spivey, [26:30]

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Key Timestamps

• 03:27–06:11: Details and aftermath of Kalian Fedrick’s shooting
• 07:25–08:13: Hearsay, rumors, and lack of witnesses stall the investigation
• 09:57–10:38: Police and prosecutors unilaterally rule the killing justifiable—despite no claim of self-defense
• 13:21–13:42: Explanation of how justifiable homicides are excluded from murder statistics
• 14:18: Expert commentary on justifiable homicide designation as a “dumping ground”
• 19:52–20:28: Latoya Williams questions justice and expresses frustration
• 21:38–26:50: Updates on the Scott Spivey case, including new investigations and civil proceedings

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains a deeply reported, exacting journalistic tone, blending investigative rigor with empathetic storytelling. Family testimonials and quotes provide a vivid, emotional counterpoint to legal and procedural explanations, emphasizing the human impact behind crime statistics and public policy.

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Conclusion

This episode shows how stand your ground laws can place tremendous discretionary power in the hands of police and prosecutors, particularly in cities like Jacksonville. Families are frequently left bereft and confused, while the statistical impact of such rulings may obscure the full reality of violence in American communities. The ongoing saga of the Scott Spivey case—with both criminal and civil components—highlights the strenuous, often painful paths families must take to seek justice or even simple recognition of their loss.

Listeners leave with essential questions about the fairness and transparency of the justice system in stand your ground states—and the ways these laws shape not only crime rates, but the lived experiences of those left behind.

Transcript

[Valerie Borlein]

If you want to get caught up on the story of the Scott Spivey case, start by listening to episode one of Camp Swamp Road. The full series is linked in the show. Notes. Since I started my reporting on the Scott Spivey case, I've been a part of a larger team at the Wall Street Journal who've been diving deep into stand your ground laws across the country. Thirty states now have these laws which give people broader rights to use deadly force, even in public places when they're in fear for their life. Since these laws have been enacted, many more killings have been labeled as justifiable homicides. We've been exploring the effect these laws have had. What purpose do they serve and could there be unintended consequences? Who gets labeled as the victim and who do you believe when the other side is dead? In this episode we have some updates on the Scott Spivey case, but before that we're going to Florida, the state where stand you'd ground laws were born. And we're focusing on Jacksonville. Compared to other places with populations above half a million people, the Jacksonville area has the largest share of homicides classified as justifiable killings by civilians. One Jacksonville case caught the attention of my colleagues. In September 2023, a teenager named Kalian Fedrick was shot and killed. Authorities eventually deemed the case a justifiable homicide committed by a man acting in self defense. But unlike in the Scott Spivey case, no one actually claimed self defense. The police cleared the Fedrick case, even though no killer came forward. At. I'm valerie borlein and this is camp swamp road, a series from the journal. Coming up episode 5 Jacksonville.

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[Valerie Borlein]

16 year old Killian Federic was shot between the ribs. It was September 21, 2023, and he was found in a dirt path near a convenience store. The spot was so close to his house that Frederick's mom, Latoya Williams, could hear the gunfire.

[Hannah Critchfield]

And she said she just knew something. She just felt it. She just felt that something was wrong.

[Valerie Borlein]

My colleague Hannah Critchfield, spoke with Williams about that day.

[Hannah Critchfield]

She runs towards the convenience store, and she finds her son lying there, and he's been shot. And he tells her it's bad. He says, you have to call 911.

[Valerie Borlein]

The police were called. After they arrived. Frederick was loaded into an ambulance. Williams pleaded with the paramedics to let her ride with her son, but they said she couldn't. Williams didn't have a car, so she started walking to the hospital.

[Hannah Critchfield]

She starts to walk, and a woman pulls over and says, hey, did you hear about the shooting in the neighborhood? And latoya says, that's my son. That's my baby. And so the woman ends up giving her a ride to the hospital.

[Valerie Borlein]

After Williams arrived, she was told that her son was in surgery. While she waited, she spoke with detective Ty Mitling of the Jacksonville sheriff's office. Williams told the detective that Frederick could be a hellraiser. Eventually, a doctor came in and told Williams that her son was dead. At the same hospital, another man was getting treated for a bullet wound.

[Hannah Critchfield]

So this is maybe a good time to introduce Anthony Jean Pierre.

[Valerie Borlein]

Anthony Jean Pierre is a man in his 30s with a felony record. Pierre was near the convenience store on the day Frederick was killed. He had been shot in his left hand. According to police records, Pierre said at the hospital that he was just an unlucky bystander. Wrong place, wrong time.

[Hannah Critchfield]

And what he says happened is that he was driving a stranger for cash in his car to an area where the stranger wanted to buy weed. And he says that as the driver, he gets out of the car, and he sees this younger man walking up to him. And that man pulls a gun. He's shot in the hand, and he flees the scene.

[Valerie Borlein]

After he was treated for his gunshot wound, Pierre was taken to the police station for questioning. Detective Mitling tried to get a statement from Pierre about what happened, but after being read, as Miranda writes, Pierre refused to talk without a lawyer. There was an outstanding arrest warrant for Pierre on an unrelated charge, and that night he was put in jail. About a week later, Pierre was released. The investigation into who killed Colleen Federick continued. What kind of investigation did the police do right?

[Hannah Critchfield]

So early on, homicide Detectives, they clearly apply the standard sort of routes that you would employ when you're trying to solve a homicide investigation.

[Valerie Borlein]

Police knocked on doors in the neighborhood looking for witnesses. There were people who said they heard the shots, but no one saw anything near the crime scene. Police recovered a gun, but it didn't match the shell casings found in the area here. It appears that the investigation stalled. Then about three weeks later, Detective Mitlin got a lead. It came from a person the sheriff's office picked up on a burglary charge.

[Hannah Critchfield]

And they say, I actually might have some information about this killing. Now, this person gives a rumor. The rumor is that they heard that Kaliyah and Federic plans to rob someone during a drug dealer and that this 16 year old was shot and killed by someone who got shot in the hand. But it's hearsay.

[Valerie Borlein]

That description matched Anthony Jean Pierre. But the person giving this information also warned police that nobody in the neighborhood was going to tell them anything. That was true. No one talked to the police about Frederick or Pierre. So they didn't interview other witnesses or reliable witnesses that you're aware of?

[Hannah Critchfield]

No, they ultimately told us that no witnesses, no direct witnesses came forward in this case. And you know, this is something that came up a lot in our reporting on civilian justifiable homicides, is that it is much harder to solve a homicide investigation when it occurred in a community that might be distrustful of police or fear retaliation from other actors within the community who are shopping at the same grocery stores, maybe attending the same churches as they are. It's a lot harder when people are reticent to talk to police for whatever reason.

[Valerie Borlein]

In the months that followed, Detective Mitling made multiple attempts to get a statement from Anthony Jean Pierre, but he was unsuccessful. Then In May of 2024, Mitling got word that Pierre had been arrested after fleeing a traffic stop. The next day, according to Hannah's reporting, a lieutenant in the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office homicide unit sent Mintling an email about the Kali and Federick case. He wrote, quote, let's decide what this is going to be. It can't stay pending forever, so let's make a plan to move forward. Mitling replied by saying that he interviewed Pierre that morning. But Pierre, quote, couldn't quite grasp the concept of self defense. As the one year anniversary of Federic's killing approached, Detective Mitling said he was clearing the case. After speaking with a local prosecutor, he laid out his conclusion and a memo. Do you have it? Can you read it to me?

[Hannah Critchfield]

Yes. So he says that the Two of them agreed that based upon the known facts, Kalian Federick was the primary aggressor and was shot and killed by presumably Anthony Jean Pierre in self defense.

[Valerie Borlein]

What does presumably mean?

[Hannah Critchfield]

You know, one of the things that I found most fascinating over the course of this reporting is learning that you can have a justifiable homicide without a person claiming self defense. You don't need to have someone come forward.

[Valerie Borlein]

Wow. So does this mean that the police and the prosecutors decided unilaterally it was self defense?

[Hannah Critchfield]

Mm, it's a good question. I think that's one of the big things that our reporting shows in this, is that the decision to categorize something as justifiable and not pursue murder or manslaughter charges is discretionary.

[Valerie Borlein]

In the memo, Mitling laid out a theory for why Pierre might not have confessed to the shooting. He wrote, quote, it is believed that as a convicted felon, he does not want to admit to having a firearm. You spoke with Anthony Jean Pierre. What did he say about this case? Did he know it had been closed?

[Hannah Critchfield]

He said that he hadn't heard from law enforcement about where the investigation was at. He had no idea if it was opened or closed. And when I spoke with him, was adamant that he didn't know anything. You know, that he got shot and he ran. He ran for his life.

[Valerie Borlein]

Police reports show that law enforcement spent a total of 36 hours on the Kali and Fedra case. That's roughly four business days over the course of about a year. Law enforcement in Jacksonville are busy. In 2023, the year Frederick was killed, the sheriff's office website says there were 148 homicides in their jurisdiction. The stretch of neighborhoods that Fedrick lived in has been referred to as Jacksonville's, quote, deadliest zip code. Another deadly weekend at Jacksonville. With two men shot to death, Jacksonville just closed a chapter on one of its deadliest Januarys in years. The murder rate in Jacksonville has long been talked about in the media as a big problem.

[Hannah Critchfield]

For decades now, Jacksonville, it's made headlines as the murder capital of Florida. And this is a designation that area leaders have worked to change. You know, reducing the murder rate is an important priority if Jacksonville is ever.

[Latoya Williams]

Going to get past its reputation as.

[Valerie Borlein]

The murder capital of Florida.

[Latoya Williams]

The body count this month will not help.

[Valerie Borlein]

In recent years, the murder rate has been declining in Jacksonville following national trends. That rate doesn't include justifiable homicides. In 2024, Jacksonville sheriff touted the decline, saying the media, quote, won't be able to call us the murder capital of Florida anymore.

[Hannah Critchfield]

Once something is deemed a justifiable homicide is considered a case that can clear and no homicide charges are filed because justifiable homicides aren't crimes, they're not considered murders.

[Valerie Borlein]

So if a death is classified as a justifiable homicide, how does that affect the official, like murder rate?

[Hannah Critchfield]

They aren't included in murder rate statistics. They move into a separate category because they're not a crime. They're not factored in into a city's overall murder rate.

[Valerie Borlein]

In 2005, when the Florida legislature passed the country's first stand your ground law, they said their intent was to give citizens greater self defense protections. But in Hannah's reporting, she found an unintended consequence to the way self defense laws are put into practice. Some experts said stand your ground laws appeared to give police and prosecutors an incentive to clear tough cases. You talked to a lot of experts. What did they say about how law enforcement uses their ability to label cases as justifiable homicide?

[Hannah Critchfield]

You know, one said, stand your ground became sort of a garbage dump for difficult to handle homicide cases. And it has emerged as this open question for some researchers who study stand you'd ground and sort of the ricocheting impacts on justifiable homicides in general on communities.

[Valerie Borlein]

A spokesperson from the office of the state attorney said that they have never shied away from prosecuting difficult cases. He added that anyone who questions whether filing decisions are made to influence crime data is, quote, unaware, uneducated or uninformed about how our office operates. Regarding Frederick's death, a Jacksonville sheriff's office spokesperson said, quote, our agency conducted a thorough investigation into this incident. According to Wall Street Journal analysis of data from the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, many of the civilian justified homicides from 2021 to 2024 took place in neighborhoods where a significant share of residents lived below the poverty line. That includes where Frederick lived. Nationally, data on justifiable homicides is hard to tease out because there's so much variation in the way police track these cases. Since Hannah began her reporting, police have arrested Anthony Jean Pierre. They had searched his car on the day of Frederick's shooting and found a 9 millimeter magazine with Pierre's DNA. The gun that held the magazine has not been recovered. Pierre is charged with possession of a firearm by a felon and possession of ammunition. He has pleaded not guilty. Pierre currently doesn't face homicide charges. Frederick's case is still identified as a justifiable homicide on the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office website. Almost two years after Frederick's death. His mother, Latoya Williams, thought the case was still an active murder investigation. No one had told her that. It wasn't until Hannah did. That's next.

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[Valerie Borlein]

About a year before her son died, latoya Williams moved with her husband and four kids to Jacksonville. She was hoping to give her oldest child, Frederick, a fresh start. He had been expelled from school, fathered a child at age 14, and had another on the way. According to Williams, Frederick had wanted to turn his life around. He had applied to Job Corps, a federally funded career training program. Williams said a letter arrived two days after her son's death. He had been accepted. Hannah went to Florida to meet with Williams and to tell her that Frederick's case had been cleared as a justifiable homicide. Hannah connected with Williams after she got off work at a Halloween store.

[Hannah Critchfield]

It was October and so she finished her shift. It was a really busy season, and so we drove to a nearby Popeyes to grab dinner. Of course, when this conversation began, Williams wasn't able to eat. I mean, it was. Yeah, she was devastated.

[Valerie Borlein]

Now that's wrenching.

[Hannah Critchfield]

She was confused. She was shocked. I mean, she hadn't heard any of this. And you know, the idea that.

[Valerie Borlein]

Your.

[Hannah Critchfield]

Son'S death is not considered a criminal act, I think that's shocking for anyone. And she had a lot of questions, a lot of questions that I as a reporter couldn't answer. The clearing of her son's case is documented publicly on the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office website. But you'd have to know where to look to find that. And she had no idea.

[Valerie Borlein]

This sounded so familiar to me. I heard that same shock and confusion from Scott Spivey's family when they learned his killing wasn't a crime. Families don't understand how a homicide case could be closed without a judge or jury involved. And there's anger that the killer gets to walk free. Here's Williams on the phone with Hannah a few weeks later.

[Latoya Williams]

Still feel like it should have been a court that ain't about.

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How do you.

[Latoya Williams]

How do you say it's justifiable when you don't have it in front of who is justifying this? Who is making it justifiable? Like, who has the up hand to do that if you're not a judge type deal? Like, who are you to judge the situation if you're not a judge? Who are you to make the final call on a judgment when you're not a judge?

[Valerie Borlein]

Latoya Williams wants to fight for her son, but she doesn't know how to do that.

[Hannah Critchfield]

This is the story of a family who. They didn't have a car, and the resources that were available to them were very scarce. And you couple that with the grief that any of these families experience, Just the regular weight of loss. It's an incredibly disempowering thing to have a family member die in this way in the first place, as well as an incredibly devastating thing. And so when you add on top of that, this factor of having limited time and limited resources, I mean, you just see that so many of the cases that we looked at in Jacksonville involve people who are below the poverty line. And so it does just raise questions of all the stories that don't get told because people have less access.

[Valerie Borlein]

Before we go, there's an update on the Scott Spivey case. When we left off in episode four of Camp Swamp Road, South Carolina's attorney general Allen Wilson had issued a public statement. That statement reaffirmed his decision to close the Scott Spivey case, despite the evidence that had surfaced through Jennifer's civil suit against Weldon Boyd and Bradley Williams. Jennifer was devastated.

[Jennifer Spivey]

I read it, and I couldn't get past the second paragraph. And after that, I mean, I just laid in my kitchen floor and I just cried hysterically.

[Valerie Borlein]

When I asked Allen Wilson about the statement, he doubled down.

[Hannah Critchfield]

Valerie?

[Valerie Borlein]

Yes. If something changes the facts of the shooting, we're happy to review those facts.

[Hannah Critchfield]

In light of the facts as we've given them.

[Valerie Borlein]

And that was that. Jennifer thought her campaign to reopen a criminal investigation into her brother's killing was over. But then, just days after my interview with Alan Wilson was released, a letter hit the news.

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We're giving you the first alert to breaking news. A newly obtained letter reveals the South Carolina Attorney general is requesting an upstate solicitor to review the investigation into the Scottish Spivey case.

[Valerie Borlein]

Publicly at least, it didn't appear that anything had changed about the facts of the case. I asked Wilson's office what was behind the decision to appoint a special prosecutor. A spokeswoman said that it was because a related investigation into misconduct at the Horry County Police Department was wrapping up. The AG's letter asked the special prosecutor to review that alleged misconduct. But it did something else too. It opened the door for a review of whether stand your ground should have been applied to the killing of Scott Spivey. What was the first thing that went through your mind when you heard that?

[Jennifer Spivey]

I was like, thank God. Thank you, Jesus. Like, I can't make the decision for the solicitor. I can't make the decision for the judge. But at least I got it this far.

[Hannah Critchfield]

So.

[Valerie Borlein]

And after two years, what does this moment mean to you?

[Jennifer Spivey]

I feel like I can. I've noticed the last few weeks that I have rested better at night. I don't feel as anxious every day. But at the same time I'm like, what's the catch? Because nothing has been easy thus far.

[Valerie Borlein]

Now an elected solicitor from the other side of the state named Barry Barnett has the power to reinvestigate this Bobby case. He also has the authority to empanel a grand jury which could recommend criminal charges. Despite her caution, Jennifer is hopeful about Barnett. Like Jennifer, he's a former science teacher. And as a prosecutor, Barnett has gone after government corruption. He has a reputation for being independent. While the special prosecutor is at work on a parallel track, the Spivey's wrongful death lawsuit is still moving through the civil courts. I asked a dozen lawyers across South Carolina and none of them have heard of a lawsuit like this. Normally, police and prosecutors are the ones who decide whether to file charges in a self defense case. But through the lawsuit, Jennifer's found a way to get a civil judge to make a call. Judge Eugene C. Bubba Griffith will decide whether Boyd and Williams truly were acting in self defense. It's all building to what's referred to as an immunity hearing. Emotions are sure to be high. All these people whose lives have been so intertwined for so long will be gathered in the same room. This November, the judge held a procedural hearing in which he played some of the 911 calls. It lasted three hours. Afterward, Jennifer texted me, quote, my watch sent me six high heart rate alerts. When I first began reporting on the Scott Spivey case. Jennifer told me that all she wanted was someone who was independent to take a look at all the evidence. If that person agreed with the Horry County Police, so be it. She just wanted a fair hearing.

[Latoya Williams]

Today.

[Valerie Borlein]

There are two pathways, Jennifer's wrongful death suit on the civil side and the special prosecutor's investigation on the criminal side. Judge Griffith has set the immunity hearing for the week of February 17, 2026. As for the timing of the special prosecutor's investigation, we don't know what that will be, but last week Barnett's office told me that he's impaneled a grand jury.

[Jennifer Spivey]

It's kind of a race. Do we get to the stand your ground hearing first, or does the solicitor decide that he wants to bring an indictment in a grand jury and press charges? I don't see the finish line yet, but I know that I'm a lot closer to the finish line than I was to start off with.

[Valerie Borlein]

We'll bring you more on the immunity hearing next year. Keep an eye out for updates in the Journal podcast feed. Camp Swamp Road is part of the Journal, which is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. I'm Valerie Borla. Our producer is Heather Rogers. Editing by Colin McNulty. Special thanks to Kathryn Brewer, Rachel Humphries and Sarah Platt. Additional reporting in this episode from Mark Merrimont and Paul Overberg. Fact checking by Nicole Pasulka. Music and sound design by Nathan Singapak. Mixing by Nathan Singapak and Griffin Tanner. Our theme music is by so Wiley. Remixed for the series by Nathan Singapok. Thanks for listening.