Podcast Summary: The Journal Episode – "Can Superman Save Warner?"
Release Date: July 11, 2025
Host/Author: The Wall Street Journal & Gimlet
Hosts: Ryan Knutson and Jessica Mendoza
Introduction
In the episode titled "Can Superman Save Warner?", hosted by Jessica Mendoza and featuring guest Ben Fritz, an entertainment industry expert from The Wall Street Journal, the discussion delves into the current state of DC Comics' cinematic endeavors, particularly focusing on the reboot of the Superman franchise. The conversation examines the challenges Warner Bros. Discovery faces in revitalizing its DC brand amidst a competitive landscape dominated by Marvel Studios.
Superman: The Iconic Superhero
Ben Fritz initiates the conversation by highlighting Superman's foundational role in the superhero genre:
"He's the template on which every other superhero has been based. And he's such a symbol of like truth and goodness and old fashioned values and doing the right thing... that he's always this icon."
(00:31)
Jessica Mendoza further elaborates on Superman's archetypal characteristics, emphasizing his enduring appeal:
"Superman is from another planet. ... He embodies everything about a traditional superhero. He's got the square jaw, perfect hair, and big red cape. And he's faster. Faster than a speeding bullet."
(00:47)
This segment establishes Superman's legacy as a cornerstone of superhero narratives, setting the stage for discussing the implications of his latest cinematic reboot.
The Struggles of DC and Warner Bros. Discovery
Jessica Mendoza shifts focus to the current financial pressures facing Warner Bros. Discovery, linking it to the performance of DC's cinematic projects:
"In the real world, Superman doesn't need to save Metropolis. He needs to save a struggling DC brand."
(01:50)
Ben Fritz provides an overview of DC's tumultuous movie strategy:
"They're basically starting from virtually zero. ... DC is saying, look, that's like our sordid, unpleasant history. We're putting it behind us and we are starting over again."
(02:19)
He underscores the critical importance of Superman's success for the broader revival of the DC brand:
"Because for DC to work, Superman's got to work."
(02:48)
This highlights the existential stakes for Warner Bros. Discovery, positioning the success of the Superman reboot as pivotal for the company's future in the entertainment industry.
Historical Context of Superman Adaptations
The hosts recount the various incarnations of Superman in film and television, noting the mixed successes:
Jessica Mendoza: "Superman first appeared in comic books in the 1930s, and his first on screen appearance was a black and white film serial in the 40s."
(04:29)
Ben Fritz: "The big moment was 1978 with the Superman movie starring Christopher Reeve. ... that was the first big live action superhero movie."
(04:42)
They discuss subsequent attempts, such as "Superman Returns" (2006) and "Man of Steel" (2013), and the challenges these adaptations faced in resonating with audiences:
"A lot of adaptations. Absolutely."
(05:44)
Challenges in Portraying Superman
Ben Fritz identifies two primary obstacles in adapting Superman for modern audiences:
-
God-like Powers vs. Relatable Challenges:
"He has God like powers. So how do you give him a really interesting challenge?"
(06:03) -
Balancing Traditional Values with Modern Relevance:
"How do you sort of balance these very simple, old fashioned values ... and make him feel relevant and interesting in the modern broken world?"
(06:14)
Jessica Mendoza adds that Superman's invincibility can make him less relatable compared to other superheroes like Spider-Man or Batman, who grapple with personal issues and vulnerabilities.
DC's Competitive Landscape with Marvel
The discussion contrasts DC's struggles with Marvel Studios' successes, emphasizing the financial disparity that has arisen:
Ben Fritz: "Marvel has brought a lot of profits and a lot of value to Disney and DC hasn't done it for Warner."
(08:24)
Jessica Mendoza points out that while Marvel has established a consistent and profitable cinematic universe, DC's inconsistent performance has left Warner Bros. Discovery at a disadvantage:
"All those flops have been a huge sore spot for DC's parent company."
(08:00)
Warner Bros. Discovery's Corporate Overhaul
Jessica Mendoza and Ben Fritz discuss the merger of WarnerMedia with Discovery Communications three years prior, highlighting the challenges faced in integrating diverse content platforms:
"They put all the Discovery content together with all the HBO Max content into one big streaming service. But it hasn't been able to compete with Netflix."
(09:04)
The recent decision to split the business into separate entities—one focusing on cable TV networks and the other on movies and streaming—is addressed, with Ben Fritz noting:
"It’s a very small company compared to giants like Disney and Netflix. ... they really need DC to work."
(09:42)
James Gunn and Peter Safran: Steering DC Studios
The episode introduces James Gunn, renowned for directing Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy trilogy, now at the helm of DC Studios alongside Peter Safran. Their appointment marks a strategic shift towards a unified vision for DC's cinematic universe.
Jessica Mendoza outlines Gunn's background and his transition from Marvel to DC:
"James Gunn directed the Guardians of the Galaxy trilogy. ... but it's a Marvel movie."
(11:30)
Ben Fritz narrates the circumstances leading to Gunn's recruitment by Warner Bros. Discovery after his temporary firing from Disney due to controversial tweets:
"Warner Bros. swooped in ... and Gunn agreed to do the Suicide Squad."
(12:53)
Under Gunn and Safran, DC Studios is tasked with creating a cohesive and innovative cinematic universe, moving away from fragmented and inconsistent past efforts.
Creative Direction and Upcoming Projects
Jessica Mendoza discusses the diverse slate of projects planned under the new leadership, including:
- Supergirl: A film centered on Superman's cousin.
- Clayface: A body horror movie exploring the Batman villain's shapeshifting abilities.
- Green Lantern Corps: An HBO series styled as a detective show.
Ben Fritz elaborates on Gunn's approach to making Superman relatable by infusing aspirational values with contemporary moral dilemmas:
"Gunn's approach ... trying to have Superman be this guy with really aspirational values who's conflicted in dealing with the world."
(15:09)
The High Stakes of the Superman Reboot
The hosts emphasize the pivotal role of the new Superman film in determining the future trajectory of DC and Warner Bros. Discovery:
Ben Fritz: "If they can't make that work, then you sort of say, what more can they do?"
(15:39)
Jessica Mendoza likens the film to a test case for DC's resurgence:
"It's almost like a test case."
(17:44)
The conversation touches on the internal targets set by Warner Bros. Discovery for the film's financial performance and audience reception:
"This movie's got to gross at least $500 million... they want people to feel good coming out of it and to like it."
(17:17)
Audience Reception and Future Outlook
Ben Fritz shares personal insights on the potential impact of the film:
"My son, who's 13, is at camp currently, but ... I'm gonna try to convince him to go with me."
(17:55)
This underscores the hope that the new Superman will resonate with younger audiences and revive enthusiasm for superheroes.
Jessica Mendoza concludes with cautious optimism:
"Hope spr... Maybe this is the movie that gets them."
(18:30)
Conclusion
The episode wraps up by reiterating the critical juncture DC and Warner Bros. Discovery find themselves in. With James Gunn and Peter Safran leading the charge, the success of the new Superman film is portrayed as a beacon of hope for revitalizing the DC brand and securing Warner Bros. Discovery's position in the competitive media landscape.
Notable Quotes:
- Ben Fritz: "He's the template on which every other superhero has been based. ... he's always this icon." (00:31)
- Jessica Mendoza: "Superman is from another planet. ... and big red cape." (00:47)
- Ben Fritz: "They're basically starting from virtually zero. ... Superman's got to work." (02:19)
- Ben Fritz: "He has God like powers. So how do you give him a really interesting challenge?" (06:03)
- Ben Fritz: "If they can't make that work, then you sort of say, what more can they do?" (15:39)
This comprehensive discussion in The Journal provides listeners with an in-depth understanding of the strategic imperatives and creative challenges facing DC and Warner Bros. Discovery as they endeavor to restore Superman's legacy and, by extension, their standing in the global entertainment market.