DOGE: The Plan to Downsize the Government

Summary

Summary of "DOGE: The Plan to Downsize the Government" – The Journal Podcast

Podcast Title: The Journal
Hosts: Kate Linebaugh, Ryan Knutson, Jessica Mendoza
Episode Title: DOGE: The Plan to Downsize the Government
Release Date: December 4, 2024

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Introduction

In the December 4, 2024 episode of The Journal, hosts Kate Linebaugh and John McCormick delve into President-elect Donald Trump's ambitious plan to significantly reduce the size of the federal government. Titled "DOGE: The Plan to Downsize the Government," the episode explores the origins, objectives, key players, and potential ramifications of this bold initiative.

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Origin and Meaning of DOGE

Kate Linebaugh introduces the term "Doge," initially a viral internet meme featuring a Shiba Inu dog, which later became the name of the cryptocurrency Dogecoin. She transitions to its new significance under President-elect Trump:

“[00:45] Kate Linebaugh: Now Doge has gone beyond the realm of memes and cryptocurrencies and into the government. It's the name of a new project created by President elect Donald Trump, and it stands for the Department of Government Efficiency.”

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Objectives of DOGE

John McCormick emphasizes the scale and audacity of Trump's DOGE initiative:

“[01:23] John McCormick: What they're proposing here is so audacious that even if they managed to get 10% of it done, it would be a huge change to the size of the federal government and sort of the role of the federal government.”

The primary goals of DOGE include:

• Slashing Regulations: Reducing bureaucratic red tape that allegedly hinders innovation and economic growth.
• Reducing Federal Spending: Targeting the $6.75 trillion federal budget with an aim to lower taxes and curb government expenditure.
• Cutting Federal Jobs: Streamlining the workforce by eliminating redundant positions and departments.

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Leadership: Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy

Two high-profile allies of Trump are set to lead DOGE:

Elon Musk

John McCormick describes Musk's involvement and motivations:

“[05:00] John McCormick: He feels that government regulation has gotten in the way of innovation, including with some of his own companies, that things just take too long to get approved through the government, that it's slowing down innovation, that the economy could be moving at a much more rapid clip if there wasn't so much government in the way.”

Musk, known for his role in ventures like Tesla and SpaceX, previously engaged with the Dogecoin community, hinting at continuity in his support for the DOGE initiative:

“[05:35] John McCormick: I think the funniest name is Doge. The Doge Department of Government Efficiency.”

Vivek Ramaswamy

Ramaswamy brings significant attention to the initiative through his advocacy for a smaller government:

“[03:37] John McCormick: Here's John this was something that Ramaswamy talked about on the campaign trail a lot, that the government has become too big. It is no longer reflective of the wishes of Congress, the wishes of the people.”

He has proposed the elimination or reorganization of several federal agencies, including the Education Department, FBI, IRS, CDC, NRC, and ATF, arguing they have overextended their roles.

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Strategy and Implementation

Recruitment and Team Composition

DOGE aims to recruit a small, dedicated team to spearhead this massive overhaul:

“[07:03] John McCormick: They're recruiting people on X and saying, if you want to be part of this mission and work your fanny off for, you know, about 18 months, come join us in this mission to downsize the federal government.”

The recruitment strategy focuses on voluntary participation, targeting dozens to a few hundred individuals rather than a large-scale hiring effort.

Proposed Actions

Key strategies include:

• Headcount Reduction: Suggesting that all federal employees return to the office five days a week, potentially leading to a significant drop in workforce retention.
• Eliminating Remote Work: Aiming to reduce costs associated with remote work and increase accountability.
• Reorganizing Agencies: Moving certain departments out of Washington, D.C., to areas with lower living costs, such as Des Moines, Iowa.

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Challenges and Criticisms

Lack of Authority

DOGE operates outside the federal government, limiting its authority to make binding changes:

“[08:05] John McCormick: No, it really isn't a government. It has department in its name, but it's not really going to be a government department. It's going to exist outside of the federal government.”

Significant changes require Congressional approval, making the implementation of DOGE's recommendations challenging.

Potential Conflicts of Interest

There are concerns about the influence of DOGE on Musk’s business interests:

“[10:22] Kate Linebaugh: Could it be potentially beneficial for their business interests? Like, is there a kind of conflict of interest potentially here?"

“[10:30] John McCormick: Yeah, there's huge potential for conflict of interest. Maybe there are things that are going to help Musk's electric vehicle business that could move more quickly if the government wasn't involved, his SpaceX efforts.”

Opposition from Federal Unions

Federal employee unions, notably the National Federation of Federal Employees representing 110,000 workers, are preparing to resist DOGE's efforts through legal challenges and lobbying.

Legislative and Legal Hurdles

Most DOGE’s proposals require legislation, which faces an uphill battle in a potentially divided Congress. Additionally, the initiative anticipates facing legal challenges that could delay or block its implementation.

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Potential Impact on Americans

If DOGE successfully implements its recommendations, the effects on everyday Americans could be profound:

• Reduction in Federal Services: Agencies like the IRS and CDC may face understaffing, impacting services such as tax audits and public health initiatives.
• Shift in Federal Roles: States and local governments might need to take on responsibilities previously handled by federal agencies, potentially leading to inconsistencies in service delivery.
• Economic Implications: While aiming to reduce taxes and stimulate growth, the reduction in federal spending could affect social programs and infrastructure projects.

“[13:34] John McCormick: If these recommendations were truly to succeed, these changes would be deeply felt by Americans. There would be, you know, potentially an IRS that no longer has enough people to perform regular audits. You might have a Department of Education that no longer exists, that states would have to sort of, you know, do all of their own educational coordination.”

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Historical Context

John McCormick notes that DOGE represents an unprecedented level of proposed change:

“[14:09] John McCormick: No, there's never been anything this dramatically proposed before. There have been commissions, you know, during the Reagan years to study the size of the federal government, but nothing that has been so, you know, dramatic in what's being suggested here.”

The initiative aligns with longstanding conservative aspirations for a smaller federal government but surpasses previous efforts in scale and ambition.

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Executive Actions and Future Outlook

While DOGE's broader objectives require legislative support, certain aspects can be addressed through executive actions. For instance, mandating a return to the office for federal workers can be implemented without Congressional approval:

“[12:53] John McCormick: Yes. I mean, Trump can do some things through executive action, and he almost certainly will. I think this calling workers back to the workplace full time will be one of the first things that he does as an executive action…”

However, more substantial changes, such as relocating federal departments, will remain constrained by the need for Congressional and, potentially, judicial approval.

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Conclusion

"DOGE: The Plan to Downsize the Government" presents a bold and contentious roadmap for restructuring the federal government under President-elect Trump. With influential leaders like Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy at the helm, the initiative aims to significantly reduce federal size and expenditure. While the goals resonate with conservative ideals, the plan faces substantial hurdles, including limited authority, potential conflicts of interest, union opposition, and the necessity for legislative approval. The outcome of DOGE's efforts will have far-reaching implications for the structure of the U.S. government and the daily lives of its citizens.

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Additional Reporting: Justin Layhart and Richard Rubin

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This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to capture all essential discussions and insights from the podcast episode while excluding advertisements and non-content sections.

Transcript

[Kate Linebaugh]

There's a word that's been kicking around the Internet for years.

[John McCormick]

You're Doge. What are you talking about?

[Kate Linebaugh]

Doge, D O G E. It's a term that started to go viral in 2013, and it's often paired with a picture of a cute dog, a shiba inu with golden fur and beady black eyes. Then, as a joke, Doge became a cryptocurrency. Dogecoin.

[John McCormick]

Take a look at dogecoin. It is up more than 900%. The cryptocurrency that started off as a joke is no longer a laughing matter.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Now Doge has gone beyond the realm of memes and cryptocurrencies and into the government. It's the name of a new project created by President elect Donald Trump, and it stands for the Department of Government Efficiency. Trump plans to use this new DOGE to slash regulations, reduce federal spending, and cut federal jobs. And Trump says he wants to achieve all of this in less than two years.

[John McCormick]

They really want to gut the government.

[Kate Linebaugh]

That's our colleague John McCormick.

[John McCormick]

What they're proposing here is so audacious that even if they managed to get 10% of it done, it would be a huge change to the size of the federal government and sort of the role of the federal government. If they're able to pull this off, it would be an absolutely huge victory for Trump and conservatives in general. I mean, this is the sort of change that they've been dreaming about, you know, for decades.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Kate Linebaugh. It's Wednesday, Wednesday, December 4th. Coming up on the show, Trump's plan to radically downsize the federal government.

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[Kate Linebaugh]

Two of Trump's key allies are going to lead the new Department of Government Efficiency. Billionaires Elon Musk.

[John McCormick]

This is crazy. So we've got the suffocating, this vast, suffocating federal bureaucracy that just gets bigger every year.

[Kate Linebaugh]

And Vivek Ramaswamy.

[John McCormick]

I believe that if an agency should not exist, it deserves to be shut down.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Ramaswamy founded a biotech company. He also ran to be the 2024 Republican presidential nominee. He dropped out in January and quickly endorsed Trump. Ramaswamy brought a lot of attention to the idea of shrinking the government.

[John McCormick]

Here's John this was something that Ramaswamy talked about on the campaign trail a lot, that the government has become too big. It is no longer reflective of the wishes of Congress, the wishes of the people. And he argued that really 75% of the federal government should be eliminated. Yes, that is severe in the number of federal employees in the Washington, D.C. bureaucracy shut down redundant agencies that should not exist. Among the federal agencies Ramaswamy's called for eliminating or significantly reorganizing were the Education Department, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Internal Revenue Service, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. He argued that they have outsized their role, that they have taken sort of liberties upon themselves to advance what he says is the administrative state.

[Kate Linebaugh]

These ideas aren't new. Republicans have long called for a smaller federal government, arguing that more power should be at the state and local level. And joining Ramaswamy is Musk, who's also a vocal critic of federal regulations.

[John McCormick]

He feels that government regulation has gotten in the way of innovation, including with some of his own companies, that things just take too long to get approved through the government, that it's slowing down innovation, that the economy could be moving at a much more rapid clip if there wasn't so much government in the way.

[Kate Linebaugh]

And Musk gets credit for coming up with the name Doge. Back when Doge was just a cryptocurrency, he hyped it up. Then last month, Musk suggested it as the name for this new project on Joe Rogan's podcast.

[John McCormick]

Yeah, I mean, quote, whatever you want. What do you want to call it? What do you call it? I mean, I think the funniest name is Doge. The Doge Department of Government Efficiency.

[Kate Linebaugh]

What Musk wants from Doge has echoes of what he did after buying Twitter.

[John McCormick]

When he took over what used to be known as Twitter in the fall of 2022, he announced that there would be significant downsizing of that company.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Twitter employees have a difficult decision to make. In a recent internal email sent by new owner Elon Musk, Employees have until 5pm today to commit to extremely hardcore work or leave the company.

[John McCormick]

He basically said, if you don't want to insanely work hard and do exactly what I tell you to do, please leave. And I think they're going to give a similar message to federal employees just.

[Kate Linebaugh]

A few days after Winning the presidency, Trump announced the creation of the Department of Government Efficiency. In his statement, Trump called it, quote, the Manhattan Project of our time, comparing it to the World War II era program that developed the atomic bomb.

[John McCormick]

That's maybe a little bit over the top in terms of a description, but they want it to be radical. And I think they're going for sort of that kind of shock value that they want this to be that dramatic.

[Kate Linebaugh]

How are they recruiting people?

[John McCormick]

They're recruiting people on X and saying, if you want to be part of this mission and work your fanny off for, you know, about 18 months, come join us in this mission to downsize the federal government. And they have said that their workers will have to volunteer. Oh, I think we're talking, you know, dozens, or certainly not more than a couple hundred, which, you know, by federal government standards is pretty teeny tiny and almost nonexistent.

[Kate Linebaugh]

A teeny tiny team with a massive undertaking, and they'll face a lot of resistance. That's next. So what exactly is doge? Is it actually a government department?

[John McCormick]

No, it really isn't a government. It has department in its name, but it's not really going to be a government department. It's going to exist outside of the federal government.

[Kate Linebaugh]

And what authority does DOGE have?

[John McCormick]

DOGE does not have any authority of its own at all. It can make recommendations. Again, it's outside of the government. Any major changes would have to be approved by Congress, and certainly any changes to the budget, which is ultimately Congress's responsibility, would have to be approved. And trying to get anything passed there is going to be challenging.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Regardless, this DOGE has lofty ambitions. It wants to reduce the federal government and its $6.75 trillion budget as a way to reduce taxes and rein in spending. But a lot of the federal spending may be hard to cut. Interest payments on, national debt can't be missed. And most of the federal budget is spent on entitlement programs, including Medicare and Social Security. And Trump has said he won't touch those musk. And Ramaswamy recently wrote an op ed in the Wall Street Journal where they lay out what they plan to do. A combination of cutting staff, eliminating entire departments, and slashing some federal regulations.

[John McCormick]

Now, some of those regulations are maybe really important things in our society to keep vaccines safe and keep nursing homes properly scrutinized. So, you know, all of this will have significant ramifications if it really comes to pass.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Are those actual examples of things that they're targeting?

[John McCormick]

Well, I mean, I think we don't know exactly what they're targeting. But I think Ramaswamy and Musk both feel there are too many environmental regulations, too much government overreach when it comes to almost everything that the government does. So, again, we don't have specifics yet from this oversight commission, but I think just about anything could be on the table.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Could it be potentially beneficial for their business interests? Like, is there a kind of conflict of interest potentially here?

[John McCormick]

Yeah, there's huge potential for conflict of interest. Maybe there are things that are going to help Musk's electric vehicle business that could move more quickly if the government wasn't involved, his SpaceX efforts. So there's, there's going to be huge potential for conflicts of interest.

[Kate Linebaugh]

A spokeswoman for Ramaswamy said that the team is, quote, committed to making sure all DOGE activities are conducted properly. In their op ed, Musk and Ramaswamy also call for mass headcount reduction and say DOGE wants to comb through federal agencies to figure out, quote, the minimum number of employees required. One way they hope to reduce the federal payroll is eliminating remote work.

[John McCormick]

One of the first things they plan to do is suggest that all federal workers be back in the office five days a week. And Ramaswamy has guessed, estimated that, you know, that will result in a quarter of the federal workforce, you know, dropping out immediately, which he would applaud.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Federal employee unions are gearing up to fight back. The National Federation of Federal employees, which represents 110,000 workers, has been consulting with its legal team and plans to lobby members of Congress. Musk and Ramaswamy have some other ideas, too, like moving certain government agencies out of Washington, D.C. and John says conservatives have long bandied about this idea.

[John McCormick]

They say, okay, does it make sense to have the Department of agriculture in Washington, D.C. or should we move it to Des Moines, Iowa, a state that was very central to President Trump's presidential ambitions and has gone increasingly red in recent years. And if they did move the Department of Agriculture to Des Moines, they could pay workers a lot less. The cost of living is dramatically lower in Des Moines than it is in.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Washington, D.C. but getting all this done may be challenging because a lot of the big ideas for Doge will need congressional approval and are almost certain to face legal challenges. Is there anything they can do through executive action?

[John McCormick]

Yes. I mean, Trump can do some things through executive action, and he almost certainly will. I think this calling workers back to the workplace full time will be one of the first things that he does as an executive action, but he can't really say, I'm moving the Department of Agriculture to Iowa because Congress would have to approve spending for construction of a new Department of Agriculture in Iowa.

[Kate Linebaugh]

And if Ramaswamy and Musk succeeds, how deeply will these changes be felt by everyday Americans?

[John McCormick]

If these recommendations were truly to succeed, these changes would be deeply felt by Americans. There would be, you know, potentially a IRS that no longer has enough people to perform regular audits. You might have a Department of Education that no longer exists, that states would have to sort of, you know, do all of their own educational coordination.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Have you ever seen something like this before?

[John McCormick]

No, there's never been anything this dramatically proposed before. There have been commissions, you know, during the Reagan years to study the size of the federal government, but nothing that has been so, you know, dramatic in what's being suggested here.

[Kate Linebaugh]

It seems like it is the conservative dream, a smaller federal government.

[John McCormick]

Absolutely. I mean, this is very much has long been a dream of conservatives. It would be an absolutely huge victory.

[Kate Linebaugh]

That's all for today. Wednesday, December 4th. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Justin Layhart and Richard Rubin. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.