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Georgia Wells (3:24)

My name is Georgia Wells and I write about tech for the Wall Street.

Narrator / Host (3:27)

Journal and tell me a little bit about what brought you to this story.

Georgia Wells (3:30)

You know, I spend a lot of my time lurking in corners of social media. It's my job. And last year I came across Exmo content for the first time. Exmo stands for ex Mormon. And this was on TikTok. And then I found it on reels. And it's these videos from ex Mormons kind of describing their decisions to leave and at times encouraging other followers of the faith to leave. And I couldn't stop watching. I found myself deep into this rabbit hole of ex Mormon land.

Narrator / Host (4:03)

That's where Georgia found Alyssa Grenfell's EXMO content, which laid out her reasons for leaving the church.

Georgia Wells (4:08)

Her videos, really often they're about very kind of specific experiences she had in the LDS Church.

Alyssa Grenfell (4:16)

A Mormon temple is one of the most secretive places on the earth. And when I did my ceremony, I was told that I should never reveal any of the secret of what I found out about in the temple.

Georgia Wells (4:28)

Many of the videos are about the role of women in the church.

Alyssa Grenfell (4:31)

Here's a list of what Mormon men can do in the church that women can absolutely not do.

Georgia Wells (4:37)

And some of the videos are around sort of more controversial aspects of LDS history, such as Mormon founder Joseph Smith's.

Alyssa Grenfell (4:45)

Polygamy, which included marrying girls as young as 14 and marrying the wives of other men in secret, or, you know.

Georgia Wells (4:52)

The church hiding the scale of its wealth.

Alyssa Grenfell (4:55)

The Mormon Church is one of the wealth wealthiest churches on the planet.

Narrator / Host (5:00)

Georgia, why is Alyssa's content so popular?

Georgia Wells (5:03)

I mean, part of her appeal to some of these ex Mormons is the shock value. Like, she wears sacred temple clothing in some of her videos, for example.

Alyssa Grenfell (5:13)

And over top this more appropriate dress, I wore the robes of the priesthood, which are part of the Mormon endowment ceremony. I have no photos of my mom getting me dressed for my wedding because there are no cameras permitted in the temple.

Georgia Wells (5:28)

And this is. It's a move that practicing Mormons consider very sacrilegious. And so when I've spoken to ex Mormons about this decision, on the one hand, there's this kind of disturbed feeling that some of them feel viewing it, but on the other, many of them have described it as cathartic.

Narrator / Host (5:50)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was founded by a man named Joseph Smith. He was born in 1805 in Vermont. According to church teaching, Smith found a set of golden plates inscribed with text which was the origin of the Book of Mormon, the Church of Jesus Christ.

Georgia Wells (6:06)

Of Latter Day Saints. It's the most American religion. It was created in this country, organized in the 1830s. It's also a very hierarchical religion and a very centrally controlled religion.

Narrator / Host (6:19)

Mormon teachings focus heavily on missionary work and traditional family life, including an emphasis on a sacred role for mothers to nurture children in the home. Throughout its history, the church and its followers have faced significant persecution in the U.S. joseph Smith was shot and killed by a mob. Members of the church were driven, sometimes violently, from other states into Utah in the 19th century. And just last month, a Mormon church was attacked by a shooter and set aflame. Four people died. Today, the church is centralized in Salt Lake City, and although just around 1% of Americans identify as Latter Day Saints, the church has always piqued the interest of many outsiders. Like there's the popular Broadway satire the Book of Mormon.

Ford BlueCruise Advertiser (7:02)

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Narrator / Host (7:08)

And Mitt Romney's run for president as the first LDS major party nominee.

Georgia Wells (7:12)

Some wonder whether there are any questions regarding an aspiring candidate's religion that are appropriate. I believe there are.

Narrator / Host (7:19)

But today's Mormon moment is taking off because of social media, and it's driven by influencers posting about their Mormon lives.

Georgia Wells (7:27)

Come along with me as I feed the calves at the Dairy Barn tonight.

Narrator / Host (7:31)

With the kiddos, as well as some reality TV shows.

Georgia Wells (7:34)

So there's the hit show the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. It's about a group of TikTok moms.

Alyssa Grenfell (7:40)

I created, Mom Talk. It's a group of Mormon moms making Tiktoks.

Georgia Wells (7:46)

And then some drama ensues.

Alyssa Grenfell (7:48)

This whole group is swinging with each other.

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Wait, what?

Narrator / Host (7:52)

The show gives viewers a behind the scenes look at the Mormon lifestyle and has been renewed on Hulu for a third season.

Georgia Wells (7:59)

And I think they're tapping into kind of broad interest in this country, but around the world about the role of women in society. It's bringing the LDS community to the kitchen tables, you know, across this country, and it's kind of raising their profile.

Narrator / Host (8:17)

But having the Mormon moment play out on social media has been challenging for the church, especially now that TikTok and Instagram have made discussions about leaving the church more visible.

Georgia Wells (8:28)

People have long posted about their decisions to leave, particularly on Reddit, where there's a very vibrant ex Mormon community. But what's new about TikTok and Instagram Reels are their algorithms. Their algorithms push videos into the feeds of people who weren't necessarily seeking this content, but TikTok or Instagram Reels served it to them. And so one of the Ex Mormons told me directly it was really hard for him to dismiss some of the issues about the church when his feeds were just serving him video after video after video about them.

Narrator / Host (9:07)

What is it about Mormonism that makes seems particularly vulnerable to social media backlash or to just being like so caught up in social media?

Georgia Wells (9:22)

Mormonism, it's a relatively new religion. It was organized in 1830, and there are documents that detail some of the controversial things that early leaders did. And it's rooted in a lot of conservatism that has repelled many younger members.

Narrator / Host (9:43)

This new wave of EXMO content online focuses on these kinds of criticisms of the church. For example, videos call out practices in the early church, such as polygamy and what's been called a death oath. That phrase refers to an oath Mormons used to make in temple ceremonies that they would submit to execution if they ever revealed details about worship practices there. The church banned polygamy in 1890, and the death oath was eliminated in 1990. The content creators also regularly questioned the lack of archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon.

Georgia Wells (10:15)

He didn't even use the golden plates at all that all those ancient prophets had.

Narrator / Host (10:20)

They also criticized the church's wealth, estimated to be in the billions of dollars, as well as its complicated history.

Georgia Wells (10:27)

Mormons were taught, and I think still are taught, that the curse of Dark SK is for Lamanites referencing Native Americans.

Alyssa Grenfell (10:35)

I was taught that any sexual sin, sex outside of marriage, sex before marriage, solo sexual experiences, were second only to unaliving someone.

Narrator / Host (10:45)

Second, these influencers, sharing their critiques of Mormon teachings as well as their own personal anecdotes, are getting millions of views. But the Church has said its critics often present sensationalized and incomplete versions of its beliefs and history. And now it's trying to take back the Mormon narrative through its own social media content. That's next.

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Narrator / Host (11:57)

Whatever the religion, it's common for younger generations to question their parents faith. And these days, many of them air their grievances online. Religious affiliation has also been falling more broadly in the United States.

Georgia Wells (12:10)

When we see Data that shows that, you know, in 2012, roughly 1.8% of Americans identified with Mormonism. Now it's close to half that. We're seeing this diminishment.

Narrator / Host (12:22)

How unique is this problem? I mean, other Christian denominations have been losing members too, for a long time now.

Georgia Wells (12:29)

Yeah, they have, but they haven't been struggling with retention to the degree that the LDS Church has been. The LDS Church is shrinking as a share of Americans more than other Christian religions in this country. To be clear, convert baptism reached a high last year. They're seeing a lot of growth in Africa right now. So they are growing.

Narrator / Host (12:53)

But here in the US the church is having a hard time retaining its members. And in this struggle for retention, the spread of videos that criticize the church and its teachings is a problem, especially when there are more negative videos about the church than positive ones, according to people familiar with the church's tallies of online content. And church leaders are starting to get concerned.

Georgia Wells (13:17)

When I've spoken with people who have been familiar with this version of an EXMO ecosystem for, you know, decades, they are seeing particularly young people choosing to leave the church faster than ever before as a result of being inundated on TikTok and Instagram Reels. That was part of what motivated me to want to look further is because at a time when the LDS Church is struggling with membership, we're also seeing many people leaving the church and attributing their decision to these EXMO influencers.

Narrator / Host (13:54)

Now the Mormon Church is trying to use the same tools on the Internet to counter the EXMO narrative.

Georgia Wells (13:59)

You know, increasingly church leaders are posting their own short form video content on the church's social media accounts.

Alyssa Grenfell (14:05)

Sometimes in life it's easy to feel unlovable, but missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints help me to know that Jesus Christ loves all people.

Georgia Wells (14:15)

And they've been like featuring a variety of members and different stories and Mormon apostles. To me, the temple means that I can have a break during the week.

Narrator / Host (14:25)

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I know my heavenly Father wants me to be my best self.

Georgia Wells (14:32)

And it's also encouraged its tens of thousands of missionaries to post Pro Church Content Day in the life of a service missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Narrator / Host (14:43)

When you say encouraging its missionaries, they're churning out content creators too. It sounds like, right?

Georgia Wells (14:49)

It used to be that missionaries weren't particularly encouraged to be on social media, and now they are. So we're seeing a lot more pro church content suddenly. And so, you know, it'll be interesting to see if that turns into a formidable kind of army on social media, because that's a lot of bodies to throw at a problem.

Narrator / Host (15:09)

Individual members of the church are also creating content to promote their faith and the ex Mormon voices online.

Alyssa Grenfell (15:16)

So I'm a self proclaimed apologist for.

Georgia Wells (15:17)

The Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints.

Alyssa Grenfell (15:19)

I've decided that I want to be a fan girl for Christ. I found so much comfort and peace and happiness in the Book of Mormon and studying the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Narrator / Host (15:34)

One pro church creator that Georgia spoke to is 33 year old David Snell. He has a podcast sponsored by an LDS nonprofit and he tries to address controversial questions about church history.

Georgia Wells (15:46)

He wants to, like, provide what he sees as the faithful perspective to counter what the EXMO community is saying. Did Joseph Smith practice polygamy or was that something that Brigham Young started? Well, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints just dropped three bombshell articles. One of them addresses this question. And so his point, he told me, was like, if the only place you're getting information about the faith is from people who left, chances are you're probably not seeing a lot of reasons people choose to join and stay in the church.

Narrator / Host (16:18)

But for Mormons already questioning their faith, EXMO content helped them feel less alone. Georgia spoke to dozens of ex Mormons who said as much. That's what Alyssa Grenfell says she wants for her followers.

Alyssa Grenfell (16:30)

And I deeply hope that every single person who's currently a Mormon is able to walk out and experience the things that I have experienced and felt after leaving the church.

Georgia Wells (16:46)

Ex Mormons describe the process of leaving the church as one of the most intense things in their lives. In the LDS Church, religious leaders promote this idea of an afterlife. And this is where members are reunited with loved ones. But the problem for folks who leave is that it doesn't apply to people who resign, to people who leave.

Narrator / Host (17:12)

It's why it can be so difficult for Mormons to leave the church. It would mean never being with their families and friends in the afterlife.

Georgia Wells (17:21)

I can't think of anything more powerful in a sense. Right, because that's forever, that's eternal, that's beyond this one moment. And so that was part of what made me really take this trend seriously, was because, you know, understanding what a profound decision this was for some individuals and for their families and for many, this EXMO content showed them a glimpse of the world that could be waiting for them if they chose to leave.

Narrator / Host (18:09)

That's all for today. Tuesday, October 21 the Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.