Fertility Inc.: The Embryo Editing Dinner

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal.

Episode: Fertility Inc.: The Embryo Editing Dinner
Date: March 27, 2026
Hosts: Ryan Knudsen, Jessica Mendoza
Produced by: The Wall Street Journal & Spotify Studios

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the clandestine and controversial movement within Silicon Valley to pioneer human embryo gene editing—taking an inside look at key players, motivations, ethical debates, and the emergence of the company Preventive. The story centers on a private "Embryo Editing Dinner" among Silicon Valley elites and scientists, the ambitions of Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong, and the secretive work of startups aiming to genetically engineer babies. The episode also contrasts embryo editing with the growing industry of embryo screening, raising questions about ethics, power, and where to draw societal lines.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: The Embryo Editing Dinner

[00:29 – 03:20]

• Location: A private room at Quince, an ultra-luxury restaurant in San Francisco.
• Attendees: Silicon Valley elites and top scientists.
• Central Figure: Brian Armstrong, Coinbase CEO, described as "wearing all black, kind of holding court" (Jessica Mendoza, [01:07]).
• Main Question: Not "should we" or "can we" edit embryos, but “we are going to edit an embryo.” (Jessica Mendoza, [02:25])

“How might they bring the powerful and highly debated medical technology known as embryo editing to fruition?” – Jessica Mendoza, [00:22]

• What’s at Stake?

“Life as we know it.” – Jessica Mendoza, [02:43]

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The State of Embryo Editing Technology

[05:02 – 08:28]

• CRISPR and Gene Editing: Techniques now allow precise editing of embryonic DNA.
• The “One Known Case”:
  • In 2018, Chinese scientist He Jiankui edited embryos to make babies immune to HIV, resulting in global outrage and his imprisonment.
  • Concerns about heritable edits and unintended "off target consequences" ([07:27]).
• Global Response:
  • A coalition in 2025 called for a 10-year moratorium on bringing edited embryos to term unless a global regulatory framework is created.

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The Motivation & Risks

[09:12 – 11:24]

• Brian Armstrong’s Vision: Publicly advocates gene editing to reduce risks of diseases like heart disease, osteoporosis. Also interested in non-therapeutic "enhancements".
  • Armstrong’s reference to “the Gattaca stack”—a nod to the film's eugenic sci-fi future ([10:37–10:55]).
• Ethical Fears:
  • Slippery slope from disease prevention to “designer babies” and eugenics.
  • Potential for social stratification by enhancement.

“There could be some group of people that are enhanced and therefore smarter, better, stronger, faster ... and then suddenly you have, like, a new class of human.” – Ryan Knudsen, [08:28]

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From Talk to Action: The Preventive Case

[12:09 – 19:33]

• Discovery: Journalist Emily Glaser uncovers the formation of Preventive, a secretive embryo editing startup with investments from Sam Altman (OpenAI CEO) and Brian Armstrong.
  • Company Operations: Allegedly sought to work in the UAE, where regulations are more permissive; reportedly identified an interested couple (Preventive denied this).
  • Public Statement: Preventive later emerges from stealth, claiming their mission is to “determine whether the newest generation of gene editing technologies can be used safely and responsibly to correct devastating genetic conditions for future children.” ([17:08])
  • Company Growth: Hired significant scientific talent, signaling ongoing, real-world work.

“This thing is real.” – Jessica Mendoza, on learning of Preventive's actual existence, [12:35]

• Denials and Statements: Preventive CEO Lucas Harrington denies working with a couple, states focus is still on research ([17:49]). Armstrong and Altman confirm investments and express interest in curing genetic disease ([18:26]).

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Embryo Screening: The Already-Here Reality

[19:54 – 23:43]

• Screening vs. Editing: While editing is illegal in the US, screening for existing embryos is available and rapidly expanding.
  • Companies like Orchid and Nucleus: Offer screening for disease risk (Orchid: $2,500/embryo) and for appearance/intelligence traits (Nucleus: $10,000+, promoted as “have your best baby”).
  • Brian Armstrong is also an investor in this space.
  • Some services market eugenic implications, and their predictive accuracy is questioned.

"We give you the full range of Insights there is to know about your future child." – Nucleus CEO, [22:10]

• Moral and Societal Implications:
  • Technologies tempt parents, raise issues of equity and societal pressure to “optimize” offspring.
  • Where to draw the line between therapy and enhancement remains contentious.

“The question, though, is where do you draw the line? And there’s just so much morality tied up in that.” – Ryan Knudsen, [23:36]

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Silicon Valley vs. Science: Culture Clash

[23:48 – 24:57]

• Tech Culture: “Just try it and see what happens,” with a philosophy to “ask for forgiveness later” ([24:25–24:28]).
• Scientific Caution: Calls for comprehensive study, safety, and ethical debate—“you can't do that with a human life.”

“It’s almost like comparing the perhaps lowercase C conservative nature of academia to the other extreme of tech entrepreneurs.” – Jessica Mendoza, [24:00]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It was basically called the embryo editing dinner.” – Jessica Mendoza, [01:58]
• “We are going to edit an embryo.” – Jessica Mendoza, [02:25]
• “Embryo editing with the intention of bringing a baby to term is illegal in many countries around the world, including the US.” – Ryan Knudsen, [08:28]
• “He has made comparisons to the movie Gattaca, the sci fi classic.” – Jessica Mendoza, [09:57]
• “One plan that Brian Armstrong had floated was for a venture to work in secret and then reveal a healthy genetically engineered baby before the scientific and medical establishment had a chance to object. And it was almost like this leap that was meant to shock the world into acceptance.” – Jessica Mendoza, [11:24]
• “This thing is real.” – Jessica Mendoza, [12:35]
• “Some offer eye color, baldness. It's not just cosmetic. There's also more screening for different diseases beyond what you could traditionally get.” – Jessica Mendoza, [21:02]
• “I think basically sex is for fun and embryo screening is for babies.” – Orchid CEO, [21:32]
• “Absolute… I think that's a big question, right? Who's gonna be that person to say, why wouldn't you want to help eradicate diseases?” – Jessica Mendoza, [23:10]
• “One group wants to study every last thing and the other one wants to rip off the band aid and start doing it.” – Jessica Mendoza, [24:00]

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Timeline of Important Segments

• [00:29–03:20] – The Embryo Editing Dinner & context
• [05:02–08:28] – Science, history, ethics of gene editing
• [09:12–11:24] – Brian Armstrong, Silicon Valley’s ambitions
• [12:09–19:54] – Formation & operation of Preventive
• [19:54–23:43] – Embryo screening industry
• [23:48–24:57] – Silicon Valley vs. academia

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Final Thoughts

Silicon Valley’s drive to push boundaries in human gene editing is at an inflection point, illustrated by secretive dinners, stealth startups, and public investment by powerful tech leaders. The episode frames the conversation as a culture clash between the fast-moving, risk-taking optimism of technology entrepreneurs and the deliberate, ethically-cautious pace of science and medicine. With embryo screening technologies already in use and gene editing looming on the horizon, society faces urgent questions about what we should allow—and who gets to decide.

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For more in the Fertility Inc. series, check out The Journal's Spotify playlist linked in the show notes.

Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

Hey, it's Jess and Ryan.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Tickets for our live show in Los Angeles are on sale now.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Join us Tuesday, April 28th at the El Rey Theater at 8pm There'll be special guests, conversations about the business of Hollywood.

[Ryan Knudsen]

And afterwards we'll stick around to meet you all. Find a link in our show notes to get your tickets before they sell out, which they did very quickly last time. See you there.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Let's travel back to the summer. It's late July. We're in the Bay Area in San Francisco at this ultra luxury restaurant called Quince.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Our colleague Emily Glaser is describing a dinner she learned about a while ago. She talked to some of the people who were there.

[Jessica Mendoza]

There was a whole group of Silicon Valley elite and scientists that were in the a private room at the back of this restaurant which had vintage Finnish furniture.

[Ryan Knudsen]

At the center of the group was the evening's host.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Brian Armstrong is there wearing all black, kind of holding court.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Brian Armstrong is the billionaire co founder and CEO of Coinbase, the U.S. s biggest crypto company.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And the evening kicked off with a central question for the attendees. How might they bring the powerful and highly debated medical technology known as embryo editing to fruition?

[Ryan Knudsen]

Embryo editing. Going into an embryo and tweaking its DNA. In other words, the genetically engineering a baby. This was the idea that was on the table that night along with the farm to table cuisine.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It was basically called the embryo editing dinner. A.

[Ryan Knudsen]

It was called the embryo Editing Dinner.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Yes. Well, a calendar invite that I reviewed that went out to attendees described as embryo editing dinner.

[Ryan Knudsen]

We asked Brian Armstrong for an interview, but through a representative, he declined. But the topic of the conversation, to be clear was should we edit an embryo or can we edit an embryo?

[Jessica Mendoza]

You know what? It was actually neither of those. It was we are going to edit an embryo.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So one more big picture question before we dig into the details. What's at stake here?

[Jessica Mendoza]

Life as we know it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Ryan knudson. It's Friday, March 27th. Coming up, one final story from the fringes of the fertility industry. And this one is very fringe today. Silicon Valley's quest to genetically engineer a baby

[Jessica Mendoza]

foreign.

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[Ryan Knudsen]

When it comes to reproductive technology, we are on the threshold of a new frontier. Today's gene editing techniques allow scientists to cut, edit and insert DNA with remarkable precision. It's now possible to rewrite a child's genetic code before they're even born. But while this has been technically possible for a while now, it's only known to have been done once by one scientist.

[Emily Glaser]

A Chinese researcher has shaken the international science community. He claims to have created the world's first genetically edited babies.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Dr. Hayes There is a Chinese scientist named He Zhengkui who in 2018 claimed to have done embryo editing. He shocked the world with this news that he had produced children genetically altered as embryos to be immune to hiv. The embryos were then implanted into the mother and Lulu and Nana were born earlier this month. As you perhaps could imagine, there were a lot of people that were very upset about this for a wide variety of reasons.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Prominent scientists denounced He.

[Emily Glaser]

I mean, I think it's very disturbing. It's inappropriate. It goes against all of the guidelines that were established.

[Ryan Knudsen]

He Jiankui was sentenced to three years in prison by Chinese authorities. And today many scientists and doctors remain convinced that embryo editing is not ready to unleash on the world.

[Jessica Mendoza]

As recently as 2025, there was this whole coalition of scientists, biotech companies, patient advocates that called for a 10 year moratorium on trying to bring an edited embryo to term. Unless there's a whole global regulatory framework and consensus on ethical and safety issues,

[Ryan Knudsen]

why are people concerned about this Technology.

[Jessica Mendoza]

All right, there's a bunch of things at play here. Number one is what could pass on to future generations.

[Ryan Knudsen]

When you edit an embryo, it changes that person's DNA. But tweaks made at the embryo stage can also be heritable, meaning scientists aren't just messing around with one person's genetic code, but potentially their kids, too. And their kids kids. So if any of those edits goes wrong, the impact could be huge.

[Jessica Mendoza]

This whole idea, they call it, off target genetic consequences.

[Ryan Knudsen]

But there's another concern, and it's less to do with the science of embryo editing and more to do with what it could mean for society. Many boosters of embryo editing talk about it as a way to eliminate debilitating genetic diseases, to prevent human suffering before it even begins. But critics, like the supporters of that moratorium, worry that once the technology is out of the bag, people won't stop at just curing diseases.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Even in this moratorium that they wrote, they. They talked about how it could potentially be applied for personal enhancement. They use the term designer babies, and they even say in this moratorium, the possibility of eugenics, which they describe as the programmed enhancement of offspring for a privileged few, shaping or even bifurcating evolution.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Hmm, right. There could be some group of people that are enhanced and therefore smarter, better, stronger, faster, and then they can pass that on to their own offspring, and then suddenly you have, like, a new class of human. Embryo editing with the intention of bringing a baby to term is illegal in many countries around the world, including the US Today, the Food and Drug Administration can't even consider applications for clinical trials if they involve creating a pregnancy with an edited embryo. But that hasn't stopped powerful people in Silicon Valley from wanting to do just that, including Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Brian Armstrong is one of the most outspoken people in the tech community on all this. Armstrong has told people that he thinks gene editing technology could produce children that are less prone to heart disease, that have lower cholesterol, that have stronger bones to prevent osteoporosis.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Armstrong has made it clear he's interested in edits that would prevent diseases. But he's also expressed interest in the exact thing those scientists were worried about, designing better humans. It's what some in Silicon Valley refer to as enhancements.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That was a word that came up a bunch with my sources. Enhancements.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Yeah, it will cure some diseases and we'll also get, you know, some taller, more handsome people with full heads of hair.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Yes. And, you know, they might talk about that more like muscle mass or, you know, stronger Hearts, you know. He has made comparisons to the movie Gattaca, the sci fi classic.

[Ryan Knudsen]

First of all, if you haven't seen Gattaca, highly recommend. The movie stars Ethan Hawke, Uma Thurman and Jude Law. And it's set in a future where embryos are carefully screened and selected to produce the best babies.

[Gattaca Movie Narrator]

I have taken the liberty of eradicating any potentially prejudicial condition. Premature baldness, myopia, alcoholism and addictive susceptibility, propensity for violence, obesity, etc.

[Ryan Knudsen]

We didn't want.

[Jessica Mendoza]

I mean, diseases, yes.

[Ryan Knudsen]

But Armstrong seems to have taken some inspiration from the movie. In a tweet last April, Armstrong wrote about his vision for an IVF clinic of the future, powered by a combination of technologies that he described as, quote, the Gattaca stack.

[Jessica Mendoza]

He has referenced that it's out in the open. He's not necessarily trying to hide it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Among the tools he envisioned in this Gattaca stack was embryo editing for, quote, disease prevention or enhancement. People who were at that embryo editing dinner told Emily that enhancements were a topic of conversation. And there was also some thinking out loud about strategy, how to introduce embryo editing to the world.

[Jessica Mendoza]

One plan that Brian Armstrong had floated was for a venture to work in secret and then reveal a healthy genetically engineered baby before the scientific and medical establishment had a chance to object. And it was almost like this leap that was meant to shock the world into acceptance.

[Ryan Knudsen]

A spokeswoman for Armstrong said that he did mention the idea of working in secretary, but that he also said it was someone else's idea and that he and others at the dinner agreed it was a bad one. To Emily, it wasn't immediately clear how serious this dinner conversation had been. Was this all just talk or something more? And then she got a tip.

[Jessica Mendoza]

I distinctly remember getting a phone call one day. I was sitting in the Wall Street Journal newsroom in New York and one of my sources called me and said that there was a company, like there

[Ryan Knudsen]

really was one, an actual embryo editing company. And not only that, but one of the biggest names in Silicon Valley was connected to it. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. And that gets your attention.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Yeah. I actually got up from my desk and I awkwardly power walked, slash jog, slash, ran to our investigations editor's office and, like, grabbed the deputy editor. And I was like, you guys will not believe what I heard. This thing is real.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's next.

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[Emily Glaser]

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[Ryan Knudsen]

Emily and her colleagues wanted to know more about this mysterious embryo editing company, but they didn't have much to go on, just that it had an office in the San Francisco WeWork and that it had hired somebody from a prestigious lab. Emily didn't even have a name for the company, so one of her colleagues started digging through corporate filings and she

[Jessica Mendoza]

was able to find the likely company in filing and the name was Preventive. And we were just like, what is this? But also jackpot. It initially had a website with just its name, a logo, and essentially like a coming soon announcement.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Emily and her colleagues were able to confirm that both Sam Altman and Coinbase's Brian Armstrong were investors in Preventive, though they weren't able to find out how much they'd invested. And when it came to Preventive's plans,

[Jessica Mendoza]

we learned a few things. One was that they had been searching for places to experiment to do their work since it's illegal in the US and one of those places was the United Arab Emirates, the uae. The second thing is that they had identified a couple that was interested in doing embryo editing to prevent a hereditary disease, and that that couple was interested in participating.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So Preventive sounds like they're doing real stuff.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's what we understood to be happening. Like this was not Just some, you know, Delaware corporate filing and a company had been created. There were, as far as we knew, some discussions, like, really taking place about work being done tied to embryo editing. It wasn't just some pie in the sky idea.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Emily and her colleagues also heard from a couple scientists who said they'd been personally pitched on getting involved in embryo editing.

[Jessica Mendoza]

We learned that Brian Armstrong and people around him had approached a lot of different scientists around embryo editing. And in some cases, it was like a joke among some of them that they couldn't find people willing to do this because there was so much concern about it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Just before Emily and her colleagues were about to reach out to the company directly, it came out of stealth mode and made a big announcement. And what did they say?

[Jessica Mendoza]

So they say when they announce themselves that their mission is to, quote, determine whether the newest generation of gene editing technologies can be used safely and responsibly to correct devastating genetic conditions for future children. If proven to be safe, we believe preventive gene editing could be one of the most important health technologies of the century.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Hmm. So they're. In other words, they're saying, we want to use this technology to prevent diseases

[Jessica Mendoza]

and to do it really safely and responsibly.

[Ryan Knudsen]

How did the company respond when you and your colleagues put the question to them about what you had found, which is that they were talking to a couple, that they were looking at the uae and they were actually taking these active steps?

[Jessica Mendoza]

So. Lucas Harrington, Preventive CEO, said it was completely false that the company had identified or was working with a couple on editing their embryos. He said the company's focused on. On research to prove the safety of embryo editing before attempting to actually bring a baby to term.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Hmm. So the company says that we're still in the research phase. We're not actually, like, taking active steps toward doing it.

[Jessica Mendoza]

He also did say that Preventive is compelled to work outside the US because the Food and Drug Administration prohibits reviewing applications for human trials that involve embryo editing.

[Ryan Knudsen]

After Emily reached out to Armstrong and his representatives for comment, he posted on X that he was excited to be an investor in preventive. More than 300 million people globally live with genetic disease, he wrote. It is far easier to correct a small number of cells before disease progression occurs. In a statement, Sam Altman's husband, Oliver Mulharin, said that he was the one driving the couple's investment in Preventive because, quote, I care about research that helps people avoid disease.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The Wall Street Journal has some extraordinary reporting out that a small company has spent months pursuing a Secret project for

[Tremphya Advertisement Announcer]

a genetically engineered baby.

[Ryan Knudsen]

When Emily and her colleagues published their story, it resurfaced fears about safety and eugenics. Scientists and bioethicists reiterated their concerns that embryo editing is unsafe and accused Preventive of working on, quote, unquote, baby improvement. But that pushback hasn't slowed Preventive down.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What we've actually seen more recently is that Preventive has hired more scientists on LinkedIn. We saw someone else started there in January 2026, listed as a senior scientist. Another person started in December 2025. That company is growing since we reported on it foreign.

[Ryan Knudsen]

It's far too early to tell whether Preventive or other future projects like it will succeed. But they may not need to, because at the same time that tech titans like Brian Armstrong are investing in embryo editing, they're also investing in another technology, one that's arguably a lot easier to pull off and one that could achieve a lot of the same aims. That technology is embryo screening.

[Gattaca Movie Narrator]

After screening, we are left, as you see, with two healthy boys and two very healthy girls.

[Ryan Knudsen]

If you think back to Gattaca, the scientists in that movie weren't actually editing embryos. They were screening them, testing them for disease risks and other traits, and then using that information to decide which embryo to implant.

[Gattaca Movie Narrator]

All that remains is to select the most compatible candidate.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That future is already here for some parents. For a long time, people doing IVF have had the option to screen for diseases like cystic fibrosis and Tay Sachs. But a new crop of embryo screening companies are promising much more than that.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A bunch of new startups are claiming that they can help prospective parents be able to choose more traits with the embryos that they create. Some offer eye color, baldness. It's not just cosmetic. There's also more screening for different diseases beyond what you could traditionally get.

[Ryan Knudsen]

One of these startups is a company called Orcid, which focuses on screening for disease risk.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Like, I think basically sex is for fun and embryo screening is for babies.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's the company's CEO in a promotional video.

[Emily Glaser]

It's going to become insane not to screen for these things.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Orcid provides information on a wide range of diseases, including complex conditions influenced by lots of genes like Alzheimer's, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. They charge 2,500 bucks per embryo. Brian Armstrong is one of Orcid's investors. But while Orcid focuses on diseases, other startups go much further. We look at something like height, even eye color, hair color, intelligence.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Intelligence.

[Ryan Knudsen]

We give you acne. Acne. We give you the full range of Insights there is to know about your future child. That was the CEO of a startup called Nucleus. Its services started about $10,000. The company recently ran an ad campaign in New York City subways that included the tagline have your best baby. Scientists and bioethicists have accused some of these startups of essentially marketing eugenics. They've also questioned the accuracy of some of these tests. But unlike embryo editing, embryo screening is perfectly legal in the US and some screening companies say their lab developed tests aren't subject to FDA regulation. I definitely get the concerns, but as a parent, you know, who wants what's best for your kids. I can see how this can be really alluring.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Absolutely. I think that's a big question, right? Who's gonna be that person to say, why wouldn't you want to help eradicate diseases? And I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't have some kind of personal connection to someone somewhere who knows someone who died from a genetic disease. And if you said, I can help cure this, who's going to say no to that?

[Ryan Knudsen]

But the question, though is where do you draw the line? And there's just so much morality tied up in that.

[Jessica Mendoza]

How could there not be?

[Ryan Knudsen]

It also seems in a lot of ways that this story is like a case study in how the medical community in Silicon Valley just approach problems very differently.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Yeah, I mean, if you take a step back, it's almost like comparing the perhaps lowercase C conservative nature of academia to the other extreme of tech entrepreneurs. One group wants to study every last thing and the other one wants to rip off the band aid and start doing it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Just try it and see what happens. And then learn from your mistakes.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Ask for forgiveness later. You know, Elon Musk sends rockets up in space and he'll do it quickly and the rocket might blow up, but then he'll learn from them. But some scientists are saying you can't do that with a human life.

[Ryan Knudsen]

This is the last of our stories, digging into the fringes of the fertility industry, at least for now. To hear previous episodes, check out the Spotify playlist linked in the show notes. That's all for today. Friday, March 27. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Katherine Long and Amy Doxer Marcus. The show is made by Kathryn Brewer, Pia Gadkari, Isabella Japal, Sophie Codner, Matt Kwong, Jessica Mendoza, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Allen Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers, Pierce Singhy Jeevika Verma, Kathryn Whalen, Tatiana Zamis and me, Ryan Knudsen. This episode was produced by Annie Minnoff and edited by Colin McNulty. Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak and Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by so Wiley and was remixed for this episode by Peter Leonard. Additional music this week from Katherine Anderson, Peter Leonard, Bobby Lord, Nathan Singapak, Griffin Tanner, so Wiley and Buddha Sessions. Fact checking this week by Kate Gallagher and Mary Mathis. Thanks for listening. See you Monday.

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