Happy Holidays! An Interview with the Christmas Queen

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal – "Happy Holidays! An Interview with the Christmas Queen"

Release Date: December 24, 2024

Introduction

In the festive rerun episode of The Journal, hosted by Kate Linebaugh and Ryan Knutson alongside Jessica Mendoza, the spotlight shines brightly on Mariah Carey and her iconic holiday anthem, "All I Want for Christmas Is You." This episode delves into the creation, enduring popularity, and the significant business impact of the song, offering listeners an in-depth exploration of its place in the music industry.

The Pervasiveness of "All I Want for Christmas Is You"

Kate Linebaugh opens the discussion by highlighting the omnipresence of Mariah Carey's holiday classic during the festive season. She introduces John Jurgensen, a Wall Street Journal colleague who has extensively covered Christmas music, setting the stage for an engaging conversation about the song's remarkable journey.

Interview with Mariah Carey

Creation of the Song

John Jurgensen initiates the interview with Mariah Carey, focusing on the song's meteoric rise. Mariah reflects on her initial skepticism when her label proposed creating a Christmas album in the early '90s, a time when releasing a Christmas record was often seen as a sign of an artist's decline.

Mariah Carey [06:06]: "Cause when I first did it, I was like, am I really doing a Christmas song right now, this feels very premature to me and I really have to say it was such a smart decision to do it."

She elaborates on the song's genesis, describing the creative process that led to its composition. Contrary to popular belief, Mariah co-wrote and co-produced the track, showcasing her multifaceted talent beyond her vocal prowess.

Mariah Carey [07:06]: "I go over the top. Yeah, it's an over the top thing. I'm sitting here with Christmas trees in my house. Like there's eight trees here, whatever. It's completely over the top."

Mariah's Relationship with Christmas Music

Mariah emphasizes her genuine love for the Christmas season and music, stating that her goal every year is to spread festivity and joy. She admits that while she can create a festive atmosphere, it's up to listeners to embrace it fully.

Mariah Carey [04:24]: "Every Christmas, my goal is to be festive and to celebrate."

Mariah's Magical Christmas Special

The conversation transitions to Mariah's latest venture, "Mariah Carey's Magical Christmas Special" for Apple TV. She discusses her aspirations for the special to enhance the holiday spirit among viewers, reflecting her dedication to making Christmas a joyous time for everyone.

Mariah Carey [04:24]: "I can't create like festiveness for people if they, I mean, I can try, I do try, but if they're not into it, I can't make them have as much fun as I do with it."

The Rise of the Song to Number One

Role of Streaming and Playlists

John delves into the factors contributing to the song's explosive popularity, particularly the advent of digital streaming platforms like Spotify and Pandora. Mariah notes the significant increase in streams, especially after the song became available as a standalone single on platforms like iTunes.

John Jurgensen [14:21]: "In 2012, All I Want for Christmas had 3 million audio streams. In 2019, it had 166 million."

He explains how playlist algorithms amplify the song's reach, placing it prominently in holiday playlists generated by user behavior and platform recognition of seasonal trends.

John Jurgensen [14:33]: "You also have the algorithms of a site like Spotify that are recognizing that that song is popular around Christmas. The algorithm says that's a smart song to be putting on our automatically generated playlists."

Fan Efforts

Mariah attributes the song's chart-topping success to her dedicated fanbase, who have been instrumental in organizing efforts to propel the song to the number one spot.

Mariah Carey [13:33]: "Fans really, really tried to make it happen for me for this as my 19th number one."

The Business Side: Revenue and Impact

Streaming and Licensing Revenue

The discussion shifts to the financial implications of the song's enduring popularity. Mariah candidly admits her limited knowledge of the exact revenue figures but acknowledges the substantial earnings from streaming and licensing.

Mariah Carey [16:48]: "Oh, I have no idea. I have no idea. I know that it's like at like a billion streams or something at this point."

John estimates that the song generates at least a million dollars annually from streaming alone, not accounting for additional revenue streams such as global radio play and licensing deals.

John Jurgensen [17:06]: "These days the song makes at least a million dollars a year on streaming alone. But that estimate is low because it doesn't include other even bigger sources of revenue, like radio play around the world and licensing."

Economic Impact of Holiday Music

Kate draws attention to the broader economic ecosystem surrounding holiday music, where various forms of media and entertainment contribute significantly to revenue flows during the Christmas season.

Kate Linebaugh [18:35]: "But every time you hear any Christmas song, baby, it's cold outside. Jingle bell rock, like all I want for Christmas is you. That's money going into someone's pocket."

Mariah's Perspective on Success

Despite the song's monumental success, Mariah maintains humility and emphasizes her commitment to creating music beyond her Christmas repertoire. She expresses gratitude for the song's ability to bring her joy and connect with fans worldwide.

Mariah Carey [19:01]: "Yes. I'm always gonna make other music. And of course, I love the Emancipation of Mimi. We could talk about Butterfly all day long."

She appreciates the song's role in her career but remains focused on diversifying her musical endeavors.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a heartfelt exchange between John and Mariah, affirming the song's significance in both her career and the broader cultural landscape. Mariah reiterates her gratitude towards her fans and the organic nature of the song's triumph.

Mariah Carey [19:28]: "Thank you. Appreciate you. Merry Christmas."

The Journal successfully captures the essence of Mariah Carey's "All I Want for Christmas Is You," offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of its creation, sustained popularity, and substantial economic impact. This episode not only celebrates a holiday classic but also provides valuable insights into the interplay between music, business, and fan engagement in the modern streaming era.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mariah Carey [06:06]: "Cause when I first did it, I was like, am I really doing a Christmas song right now, this feels very premature to me and I really have to say it was such a smart decision to do it."

• John Jurgensen [14:21]: "In 2012, All I Want for Christmas had 3 million audio streams. In 2019, it had 166 million."

• Mariah Carey [13:33]: "Fans really, really tried to make it happen for me for this as my 19th number one."

• Mariah Carey [19:01]: "Yes. I'm always gonna make other music. And of course, I love the Emancipation of Mimi. We could talk about Butterfly all day long."

Final Thoughts

For those who haven't listened to the episode, this summary provides a thorough overview of the key discussions surrounding Mariah Carey's holiday anthem. From its humble beginnings and creative process to its unprecedented rise in the streaming age, The Journal offers a compelling narrative on why "All I Want for Christmas Is You" remains a beloved and profitable staple in the festive music repertoire.

Transcript

[Kate Linebaugh]

Hey, it's Kate. It's that time of year again. So we're rerunning a holiday classic. It's about one hit holiday, how it came to be, why it endures, and what its success says about the larger forces shaping the music industry. The song in question, Mariah Carey's all I want for Christmas is you. Enjoy this winter. Our colleague John Jurgensen has been living, breathing and writing about Christmas music. One song in particular, I've had like.

[John Jurgensen]

My ears tuned for those little bells that start the song. You know, it might be in a car that's passing. It might be on, on tv, certainly on the radio because my wife has Christmas music on repeat pretty much from Thanksgiving through January. So I hear it a lot in my house. Also.

[Kate Linebaugh]

That song is Mariah Carey's smash hit All I want for Christmas is you.

[Mariah Carey]

Don'T want a lot for Christmas. There is just one thing I need.

[Kate Linebaugh]

This song feels like it's everywhere this time of year and the numbers back that up.

[John Jurgensen]

It is the star on top of the tree under which all other Christmas song ornaments can't even get close. So last year it got about 309 million audio and video streams and by comparison, the second most popular Christmas song last year which was Brenda Lee's rockin around the Christmas tree, that old chestnut that got about 193,3 million streams last year.

[Kate Linebaugh]

All I want for Christmas is so popular it's easy to forget that it hasn't always been like this. The song surge to the top of our collective playlist happened fast and it actually happened pretty recently. John wanted to know why.

[John Jurgensen]

The question I had was how a 26 year old song that's been around so long, it's been part of the Christmas landscape for decades, can have this kind of vault into ubiquity and also do so exponentially. We listen to Christmas music every year of all varieties. Why is this one heads and tails above all the rest?

[Kate Linebaugh]

So John, who covers the entertainment industry, went straight to the source and called up the queen of Christmas herself.

[John Jurgensen]

Hi, Mariah.

[Mariah Carey]

Hi, John. How are you?

[John Jurgensen]

Great to see you.

[Mariah Carey]

Great to see you as well.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Kate Linebaugh. Coming up on the show, the rise and big business of all I want for Christmas is you.

[Mariah Carey]

Foreign.

[ServiceNow]

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[John Jurgensen]

So this is the first time I've actually spoken to Mariah. I've written about her in the past, but this is the first time I've ever got a chance to interview her.

[Kate Linebaugh]

John wanted to talk to Mariah about how all I want for Christmas got so big. But the official reason for the call was her new project for Apple tv, Mariah Carey's Magical Christmas Special.

[John Jurgensen]

There's clearly room for this Christmas business of yours to grow. Tell me what your priorities were for this year.

[Mariah Carey]

Every Christmas, my goal is to be festive and to celebrate. And it's really, it's funny because when you said this Christmas business, I know that it's a business, but it really is a. I don't know how to explain it except that I think I love it more than anybody and I really think the special is going to make people get in the Christmas period. And I can't create like festiveness for people if they, I mean, I can try, I do try, but if they're not into it, I can't make them have as much fun as I do with it. But, you know.

[Kate Linebaugh]

So you were on a video call with Mariah Carey.

[John Jurgensen]

Yeah.

[Kate Linebaugh]

What did it look like?

[John Jurgensen]

I mean, I think that Planet Mariah is a special place under any circumstances, but at Christmas time, it certainly is much more extravagantly decorated.

[Mariah Carey]

I go over the top. Yeah, it's an over the top thing. I'm sitting here with Christmas trees in my house. Like there's eight trees here, whatever. It's completely over the top.

[John Jurgensen]

But I only saw about four in the background of my video call. But I'll take our word that there were eight in the whole household.

[Kate Linebaugh]

These days, Mariah Carey is all in on Christmas, but she wasn't always. John says when her label first pitched the idea of a Christmas album, she was skeptical. This was in the early 90s when Mariah's fame was in full swing.

[John Jurgensen]

So to put that into context, this was about a year after she released her third album, Music Box. Smash success. You know, this is an artist on the way up in every sense of the word. And so especially at that time, Christmas albums, Christmas music was perceived as something that someone was going to do when they're over the hill.

[Mariah Carey]

Cause when I first did it, I was like, am I really doing a Christmas song right now, this feels very premature to me and I really have to say it was such a smart decision to do it. And All I Want For Christmas Is yous was the first song that I wrote and recorded for that album.

[John Jurgensen]

So there's kind of a hagiography around the song that doesn't really involve her co writer. As the sort of history and lore of this song has been recounted. She was tasked to write Christmas music. She was sort of sequestered in this house upstate trying to put herself in the mood. And so in one room of the house, she had It's a Wonderful Life, the classic Jimmy Stewart Christmas movie playing. She had lights and sort of ambiance of the holiday, sort of setting the mood. And she went up, as she recalls it, on this little crummy keyboard that she had available and started plunking out the melody for All I Want for Christmas is you.

[Kate Linebaugh]

So she wrote the song. I have to say, for all the times I've heard it, I never knew that she actually wrote it.

[John Jurgensen]

Yeah, I think Mariah's fans love to stress this fact, but I think other people don't necessarily think about it enough, which is that she composed the song, she co wrote the song, she co produced the song, she created the song.

[Mariah Carey]

Essentially thinking about it. Like there's been people that said to me, you wrote All I Want For Christmas is yous, like grown adults that assume it was a remake because that was the vibe I was trying to give it in terms of making the record in the first place and writing the song.

[John Jurgensen]

And I think people forget because of Mariah's voice and her vocal talents and her kind of glam image. I think a lot of people forget that she's also a songwriter.

[Kate Linebaugh]

How would you describe the song for those people who haven't heard it or those people who probably have heard it but didn't know what it was.

[John Jurgensen]

The song is timeless in one way because it was written in the 1990s, but it's a throwback to the 1960s in some ways. This kind of Phil Spector wall of sound production style that was very unique to a time and place that many kind of deem ageless and timeless. What I find unique about the song is that it's about four minutes long, but the first minute of the song, starting with those bells, is this sort of elaborate warm up period where she's kind of getting us into the mood, almost sort of warming up vocally and creating a little suspense and tension in the song. And that lasts for almost a full minute before what we know of the actual song really starts to kick in. There's this big drum beat and then these really propulsive verses that she sings. So there's this sort of buildup and suspense and then the rest of the song, the final three minutes is all kind of payoff in her singing and the tempo and also the chorus of voices around her, which gives people listening ample opportunity to kind of harmonize with her and almost back up Mariah as we sing along with her throughout the song. All I want for Christmas is you, you bab.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Do you sing along with her?

[John Jurgensen]

I certainly hum.

[Mariah Carey]

Do you like the song?

[John Jurgensen]

I do like the song. It's a great tune and it's not saccharine. I mean, there's a lot of Christmas songs that I run the other way from. I don't do that. With Mariah's song, it's probably hard to pick a moment, but when you're performing it, what's the exact moment in that song that you love the most?

[Mariah Carey]

I don't know that there is one specific note I know that I would be doing, let's say the Tokyo Dome, right? Even in July, when, when the bells that begin the song, the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, when that would start, because it was always a very calm audience, like a different experience culturally. And then the bells came on.

[John Jurgensen]

And.

[Mariah Carey]

It'S like the place suddenly woke up even in the summer. It became this thing where you're like, wow, people really know it from the first bell.

[Kate Linebaugh]

People might know the song from the first bell today, but it wasn't always a hit. Coming up, how Mariah's signature Christmas song became a smash success.

[Mariah Carey]

Foreign.

[ServiceNow]

This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow, the AI platform for business transformation. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. Enter ServiceNow. It puts AI to work for people, for employees, for developers, and even your customers, removing frustration and supercharging productivity. On our intelligent platform, AI isn't just a promise. It's happening today. That's why the world works with ServiceNow. Tap the banner to learn more or visit servicenow.com.

[Kate Linebaugh]

All I Want for Christmas came out in 1994.

[John Jurgensen]

It was a modest hit on its own terms. This I believe. The album itself went to number three on the Billboard albums chart. You know, not bad for a Christmas album. But the song was never marketed as a standalone single. In the way we think about singles.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Now, that seems surprising.

[John Jurgensen]

Well, if you think about it, this is the 90s. This is pre MP3s pre digital era, most of us were not going out and buying individual singles or EPs. We were buying the album. Many people did. And they would play it at home. And so there was no real metric, no real mechanism for that song to vault ahead of the rest.

[Kate Linebaugh]

But in the early aughts that started to change. Services like itunes let people buy All I Want for Christmas as a standalone single, and a lot of people did. Mariah and her label started putting more marketing behind the song. She did those Christmas concerts and specials. And then last year, 25 years after it first came out, the song hit number one.

[Mariah Carey]

So I remember Christmas day last year. I was sitting in Aspen in the house, 3 o'clock in the morning. Had seen the Billboard piece. It was such a feeling of not just a feeling of accomplishment, but also a feeling of content, like really feeling at peace, really feeling extremely thankful just for the moment and just taking a beat to enjoy it and to acknowledge it.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Mariah gives credit for the song surge to her fans. They've been organizing for years to vault the song to the top of the charts in 2019 and make it her 19th number one hit.

[Mariah Carey]

Because they did it like I wasn't sitting at home maniacally trying to make that happen. It actually happened organically all around the world. Fans really, really tried to make it happen for me for this as my 19th number one.

[Kate Linebaugh]

But it wasn't just the fans. John says you can also trace the song's rapid rise to streaming starting around 2012.

[John Jurgensen]

2013, 2014 is when services like Spotify, Pandora really started to become default for a lot of us as music listeners. And really, if you think about when the streaming era as we know it took hold, that's really in the last five years or so. And that's where you see the song jump in terms of plays by an order of magnitude every year.

[Kate Linebaugh]

In 2012, All I Want for Christmas had 3 million audio streams. In 2019, it had 166 million. And a lot of that growth came from playlists.

[John Jurgensen]

So think of the fact that I decided to make a Christmas holiday playlist for my house when my family and I are decorating the trees. Let's say I'm gonna put Mariah Carey song on there. And so are a million other people who are making a holiday playlist because they know that song. They love that song Blanc. They put that on their playlist. You also have the algorithms of a site like Spotify that are recognizing that that song is popular around Christmas. The algorithm says that's a smart song to Be putting on our automatically generated playlists. So you have this kind of amplifying force around streaming that once a song is on that level, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

[Kate Linebaugh]

It feels like streaming is giving a lot of older songs a boost. We've seen it this year with Dreams from Fleetwood Mac. Is this happening a lot?

[John Jurgensen]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that is the coolest thing probably about the streaming ecosystem. This kind of windmill of popularity gets rolling, and often it can just be one thing. In that case, it was a TikTok video that a guy made, drinking cranberry juice and just kind of vibing out to that song. And something about the way he loved it and the way it just sort of presented itself on TikTok, just sent it into this kind of stratosphere of replays and views. So bursts like that happen all the time. But there's a little bit different than what we're seeing with Mariah's song, which is kind of a seasonal version of that burst.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Every time December rolls around and we add All I Want for Christmas to our holiday playlist, Mariah Carey, the song's co writer, co producer, and singer, gets paid.

[John Jurgensen]

So I'm with the Wall Street Journal, so, you know, I'm gonna ask you about money.

[Mariah Carey]

If you want to give me some, you can.

[John Jurgensen]

How?

[Mariah Carey]

Don't expect much from me. Don't expect much from me, darling, because I failed remedial math. Okay, we're not.

[John Jurgensen]

I know you're keeping track of that business. How much do you estimate all I want brought in for you last year?

[Mariah Carey]

Oh, I have no idea. I have no idea. I know that it's like at like a billion streams or something at this point. I don't know. I know very little about all these details, believe it or not. Let's put it this way, not as much as it would have if we still had physical CDs and such.

[John Jurgensen]

You know, she said, listen, I have no idea how much that song makes. But I also believe that she probably doesn't know how much that song makes. I think it's such a nebulous part of the business and kind of infamously hard to delineate in the music industry, which has been a real problem for a lot of artists. It's very hard to sort of track all the different strands of profitability for a song.

[Mariah Carey]

Does anybody understand? I'm not doing this because it's like, oh, this is such a huge money making opportunity. Yeah, we love that. Like you said, we love money. We can talk about money. Yay. But I really do live from Christmas to Christmas, and I really do plan for it the whole year and work towards it the whole year.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Mariah didn't give John a number, but he estimates these days the song makes at least a million dollars a year on streaming alone. But that estimate is low because it doesn't include other even bigger sources of revenue, like radio play around the world and licensing, including for this podcast. When we think about money and the Christmas season, generally, people are just thinking about retail. Maybe that's because it's like the money coming out of our own pockets. But every time you hear any Christmas song, baby, it's cold outside. Jingle bell rock, like all I want for Christmas is you. That's money going into someone's pocket.

[John Jurgensen]

It's true. And it's a fascinating thing that these songs and all kinds of copyrights, whether it's Christmas movies, you know, Christmas art of any kind, there's this whole kind of blizzard of revenue that's happening behind the scenes as we are streaming these songs and spinning it every year.

[Kate Linebaugh]

As for Mariah, she doesn't seem to mind just how large this Christmas song looms over her career.

[Mariah Carey]

You know what? Yes. I'm always gonna make other music. And of course, I love the Emancipation of Mimi. We could talk about Butterfly all day long. There's lots of albums, the first album, whatever. But this whole Christmas moment for me is like, I don't know. I'm really thankful. I was telling my friend the other day and I said, I'm just thankful that I wrote the song because it really does make me happy every year.

[John Jurgensen]

Mario, such a pleasure and thank you so much.

[Mariah Carey]

Thank you. Appreciate you. Merry Christmas.

[Kate Linebaugh]

This episode was originally published in December of 2020. Spotify is one of the companies behind this podcast. As you know, the Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Music in today's episode is by Blue Dot Sessions and of course, Mariah Carey. Thanks for listening. Happy holidays. We'll be back with a new episode on January 2nd.