Hollywood Jobs Are Disappearing

Summary

The Journal. — "Hollywood Jobs Are Disappearing"

Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Jessica Mendoza & Ryan Knutson (with guest journalist Ben Fritz)
Podcast by: The Wall Street Journal & Spotify Studios

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the alarming decline in jobs within Hollywood, particularly among its often-overlooked "creative middle class"—the behind-the-scenes professionals who have long formed the backbone of the entertainment industry. With the combined impacts of the pandemic, lengthy strikes, a streaming bubble burst, and changing business realities, thousands of jobs have vanished. Through the story of Oscar-winning sound mixer Thomas Curley, host Jessica Mendoza and WSJ entertainment reporter Ben Fritz illuminate the human toll of an industry in upheaval, exploring why the jobs aren’t coming back and what this means for the future of Hollywood.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Makes Up Hollywood?

• Hollywood’s glamor often overshadows the hundreds of less-recognized professionals working behind the scenes—assistant directors, sound recordists, animators, working writers, production managers, and more
  • "Just think of the end credits ... they're really long, right? There's hundreds and hundreds of names." (Ben Fritz, 00:29)
• These behind-the-scenes workers constitute L.A.’s creative middle class, which has been severely impacted by the industry downturn.

2. The Sudden Collapse of Work

• Unlike past slow declines, this downturn was swift and brutal.
  • "It's not like the frog boiling in the water. It's a dramatic drop-off. It happened very suddenly."
    – Ben Fritz (01:12)
• Many in Hollywood have not seen it this bad in decades, if ever.
  • "As far as anxiety about the future of entertainment ... this is the worst since I’ve ever been here. By far. Not even close."
    – Ben Fritz (01:42)

3. Thomas Curley’s Story: Talent Meets Turmoil

• Thomas Curley, an Oscar-winning production sound mixer, had built a successful career—recently buying a home in 2023 with the confidence that his career was secure.
• The 2023 SAG-AFTRA and Writers Guild strikes halted all work. Thomas:
  • "I thought that this house, if the career didn't pause ... I could have theoretically afforded a house twice that much if work never stopped." (Thomas Curley, 04:26)
• Post-strike, work did not return as expected; the industry did not bounce back.

Memorable Moment:

After winning the Oscar for "Whiplash," Thomas felt assured of his future:

• "Calls for bigger-budget, longer-term jobs flooded in. I worked on the hit TV show Yellowstone for three seasons ... got another gig with CSI: Vegas—kind of the dream job for a production person." (06:31–06:48)

4. The Role of the 2023 Strikes

• The strikes were rooted in demands for better pay, benefits, and—crucially—protections against AI-driven job losses:

  • "They were very concerned about the effects of artificial intelligence ... demanding protections against AI stealing their jobs."
    – Ben Fritz (07:32)

• Studios felt union demands were "unreasonable" and warned the strikes could endanger the entire industry.

• When strikes finally ended, work and job opportunities did not rebound as expected:

  • "The lesson everybody’s learned is just be patient, make sure you have some savings ... and the jobs will come back soon enough. But it’s been two years and the situation hasn’t changed at all."
    – Ben Fritz (09:40)

5. Structural Shifts: The Streaming Bubble and Studios’ Reset

• The industry faced a "perfect storm":
  • The movie business was already shattered by the pandemic; theaters never fully recovered.
  • TV—Hollywood's true economic engine—crashed after a period of excessive streaming-driven content expansion.
    • "Back in the late 2010s, early 2020s, it was all about growth ... Wall Street just wanted to see these streaming services ... grow, grow, grow."
      – Ben Fritz (12:19)
  • By 2022, US market saturation forced studios to prioritize profits over constant growth. The easiest way to cut losses? Make less content.
• The strikes allowed studios to reset production levels to much lower volumes.
  • "Once they restarted in late 2023, they restarted at a much lower level than they'd been before."
    – Ben Fritz (13:18)

Data Highlight

• From 2022 to 2025, the number of major studio productions starting shooting in the US dropped by over 40%.
  • "Imagine if there was just 40% less work to do in any industry ... it would feel like a depression hit out of nowhere."
    – Ben Fritz (13:42)
• The LA motion picture workforce shrank by 42,000 jobs in two years—from 142,000 to 100,000.

6. The Growing Divide: Hollywood vs. Creator Economy

• The rise of user-generated content (YouTube, TikTok) is not absorbing Hollywood’s creative workforce:
  • "There’s just a lot fewer jobs and a lot fewer well-paying jobs in YouTube and especially in TikTok, even at the highest level."
    – Ben Fritz (15:07)
  • Most creator jobs are non-unionized and cannot match Hollywood wages or employment numbers.
    • "It’s hard to imagine a YouTube show ... paying somebody like [Thomas Curley] $150,000 for a show."
      – Jessica Mendoza (15:48)

7. Local and Personal Impacts

• LA faces fewer productions, emptier studio lots, and the lowest local production activity since at least 1995 (excluding the pandemic).
• Many, like Thomas, are considering leaving the industry or even the city.
  • "If I don't get a longer-term gig by the end of this year, I might move out of LA ... I’ll survive ... but I don’t want to."
    – Thomas Curley (17:41)

Emotional Highlight

Thomas:

• "I put everything into this ... I’m very good at it ... There’s nothing that should be stopping me for the next 20 years if I wanted to ... It’s not just that I’m sad that I don’t get to turn a wrench anymore ... I’m sad that I don’t get to create like I used to ... This is more than that. It’s part of me." (17:57–18:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• "As far as anxiety about the future of entertainment ... this is the worst since I’ve ever been here. By far. Not even close."
  Ben Fritz (01:42)

• "I thought that this house, if the career didn't pause ... I could have theoretically afforded a house twice that much if work never stopped."
  Thomas Curley (04:26)

• "Calls for bigger-budget, longer-term jobs flooded in ... kind of the dream job for a production person."
  Thomas Curley (06:46–06:48)

• "There's just a lot fewer jobs and a lot fewer well-paying jobs in YouTube and especially in TikTok ... It’s hard to imagine a YouTube show ... paying somebody like [Thomas Curley] $150,000 for a show."
  Ben Fritz / Jessica Mendoza (15:07, 15:48)

• "If I don't get a longer-term gig by the end of this year, I might move out of LA ... I’ll survive ... but I don’t want to."
  Thomas Curley (17:41)

• "I put everything into this ... There’s nothing that should be stopping me for the next 20 years ... It's part of me."
  Thomas Curley (17:57–18:36)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:29] — The “creative middle class” and who actually makes Hollywood work
• [01:12] — The dramatic and sudden drop in jobs/work
• [04:26] — Thomas Curley’s financial caution and housing decision
• [06:48] — Thomas’s “dream job” and sudden industry stoppage
• [07:32] — Demands of the labor strike, especially protections against AI
• [09:40] — Labor force expectations versus reality post-strikes
• [12:19] — Streaming’s heyday and its crash
• [13:42] — Data: Drop in major studio productions and Hollywood jobs
• [15:07] — Creator economy limitations for job creation
• [16:37] — LA’s production activity hits historic lows
• [17:41] — The personal/familial threat for Thomas Curley
• [17:57] — Emotional impact on creative identity

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Conclusion

The episode closes by reflecting on the profound transformation—and possible permanent shrinking—of Hollywood as an employer of creative professionals. For workers like Thomas Curley, the crisis is not only financial but existential: the loss of steady work means the loss of a vocation, a community, and a creative outlet that defines who they are. Hollywood may always entertain, but for many, its golden age of abundant, reliable jobs is now a thing of the past.

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Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

When. I. Think. About. The. People. Who. Make. Up. Hollywood. I. Think. Of. Action. Stars. Red. Carpet. Icons. A. List. Directors. And. Big. Studio. Bosses. But. The. Vast. Majority. Who. Work. In.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Industry. Have. Jobs. That. Are. Way. Less. Glamorous.

[Ben Fritz]

You. Wouldn't. Know. Their. Names. But. These. Are. The. People. Who. Actually. Make. Films. And. Tv. Shows. Mostly. Behind. The. Scenes.

[Jessica Mendoza]

My. Colleague. Ben. Fritz. Covers. The. Entertainment. Industry.

[Ben Fritz]

They're. Assistant. Directors. They're. Who. Hang. The. Lights. They're. Sound. Recordists. They're. Animators. They're. Working. Writers. They're. Production. Managers. There's. So. Many. Jobs. That. Make. A. Movie. And. Tv. Show. Work. Just. Think. Of. The. End. Credits. Or. The. End. Of. Any. Film. If. You. Ever. Actually. Sit. Through. Them. They're. Really. Long. Right. There's. Hundreds. And. Hundreds. Of. Names.

[Jessica Mendoza]

These. Are. The. Names. That. Make. Up. The. Backbone. Of. Show. Business. Los. Angeles. Creative. Middle. Class. Ben's. Been. Talking.

[Ben Fritz]

With.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A. Lot. Of. These. Workers. Lately. And. Things. Haven't. Been. Good. What. Sort. Of. Things. Have. They. Been. Telling. You. They've. Been.

[Ben Fritz]

Telling. Me. That. There's. Not. Nearly. As. Much. Work. As. There. Used. To. Be. Just. Bottom. Line. And. It's. Been. A. It's.

[Thomas Curley]

Not.

[Ben Fritz]

One.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Of.

[Ben Fritz]

Those. Things. Where. It's. Been. Slowly. Falling. And. Slowly. Falling. It's. Not. Like. The. Frog. Boiling. In. The. Water. You. Know. It's. A. Dramatic. Drop. Off. It. Happened. Very. Suddenly. Broadly. Speaking. In. La.

[Thomas Curley]

If.

[Ben Fritz]

You're. Involved. In. The. Entertainment. Industry. This. Has. Been. A. Very. Rough. Two. Years. Very. Very. Rough.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Ben. You've. Lived. In. La. For. Twenty. Years. Now. So. This. Isn't. The. First. Time. You've. Seen. Hollywood. Go.

[Ben Fritz]

Through.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A. Downturn. How. Does. This. Compare. To. What. You've. Seen. Before.

[Ben Fritz]

Oh. As. Far. As. Anxiety. About. The. Future. Of. Entertainment. And. People's. Ability. To. Work. In. Entertainment. This. Is. The. Worst. Since. I've. Ever. Been. Here. By. Far. Not. Even. Close.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome. To. The. Journal. Our. Show. About. Money. Business. And. Power. I'm. Jessica. Mendoza.

[Ben Fritz]

Monday.

[Jessica Mendoza]

November.

[Ben Fritz]

Tenth.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Coming. Up. On. The. Show. Hollywood. In. Crisis. This. Episode. Is. Presented. By. SAP. A. Bad. Storm. Hitting. Your. Warehouse. Incomplete. Customs. Forms. A. Short. Supply. Of. Those.

[Ben Fritz]

Little.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Plastic. Twist. Ties. These. Could. All. Deal. A. Crushing. Setback.

[Ben Fritz]

To.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Your.

[Ben Fritz]

Business.

[Jessica Mendoza]

But. They. Don't. Have. To. The. AI. Powered. Capabilities. Of. SAP. Will.

[Ben Fritz]

Help.

[Jessica Mendoza]

You. Navigate. Uncertainty. You. Can. Pivot. To. New. Suppliers. Automate. Paperwork. And. Source. The. Twist. Ties.

[Ben Fritz]

You.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Need. So. Your. Business. Can. Stay. Unstoppable. Learn. More. At. SAP. Dot. Com. Uncertainty.

[Ben Fritz]

This.

[Thomas Curley]

Episode.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Is.

[Thomas Curley]

Brought.

[Ben Fritz]

To.

[Thomas Curley]

You. By. Paypal.

[Ben Fritz]

Okay.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Let's. Talk.

[Thomas Curley]

Holiday. Shopping.

[Ben Fritz]

Make.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The. Most.

[Thomas Curley]

Of.

[Ben Fritz]

Your. Money. With.

[Thomas Curley]

Paypal.

[Ben Fritz]

They. Give. You.

[Thomas Curley]

The.

[Ben Fritz]

Flexibility. To.

[Thomas Curley]

Pay.

[Ben Fritz]

In.

[Thomas Curley]

Four.

[Ben Fritz]

No.

[Thomas Curley]

Fees.

[Ben Fritz]

No. Interest. And.

[Thomas Curley]

Save.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Offer.

[Ben Fritz]

In.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Paypal. App.

[Ben Fritz]

To. Get.

[Thomas Curley]

Five.

[Ben Fritz]

Percent.

[Thomas Curley]

Cash. Back.

[Ben Fritz]

When. You. Pay. Later. So. Whether.

[Thomas Curley]

It's.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Must. Have.

[Ben Fritz]

Toy. Or.

[Thomas Curley]

A. Tiered.

[Ben Fritz]

Cheese.

[Thomas Curley]

Board. Paypal. Helps.

[Ben Fritz]

You. Make. The. Most. Of.

[Thomas Curley]

Your. Money.

[Ben Fritz]

This.

[Thomas Curley]

Holiday.

[Ben Fritz]

Expires.

[Thomas Curley]

Twelve.

[Ben Fritz]

Thirty. One. See. Paypal.

[Thomas Curley]

Dot.

[Ben Fritz]

Com. Promoter. Subject. To. Approval.

[Thomas Curley]

Learn.

[Ben Fritz]

More. At. Paypal.

[Thomas Curley]

Dot.

[Ben Fritz]

Com. Payinfor. Paypal. Inc. Nmls. Nine. One. Zero.

[Thomas Curley]

Four.

[Ben Fritz]

Five.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Seven.

[Ben Fritz]

Hi. Thomas. Yeah. I'm. At. Yes. We're. At. Your. Gate.

[Jessica Mendoza]

All.

[Thomas Curley]

Right. I'll.

[Ben Fritz]

Be. Right.

[Thomas Curley]

There.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Late. Last. Month. Ben. Drove. Up. To. Sylmar. A. Northwest. Suburb. Of. Los. Angeles. A. Lot. Of. People. Who. Work. In. Film. And. Tv. Live. In. This. Area. Houses. Are. More. Affordable. And. The. Big. Studios. Are. Within. Driving. Distance. Ben. Was. There. To. Visit. A. Member. Of. Hollywood's. Creative. Middle. Class. Thomas. Curley. A. Production. Sound. Mixer.

[Ben Fritz]

Hi. Good. To. See. You. Thomas.

[Thomas Curley]

Yeah. You. Too.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Walking.

[Ben Fritz]

Up.

[Jessica Mendoza]

To. Thomas's. House. One. Of. The. First. Things. Ben. Saw. Is. A. Big. Beautiful. Orange. Tree.

[Ben Fritz]

Do. You. Plant. This. Orange. Tree. Or. Is. It. Here.

[Thomas Curley]

No. This. Was.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Here.

[Thomas Curley]

When.

[Ben Fritz]

I.

[Thomas Curley]

Moved. Here. A. Lot.

[Ben Fritz]

Of.

[Thomas Curley]

This. Is. Kind.

[Ben Fritz]

Of. Why.

[Thomas Curley]

I. Bought.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Place. I. Just. Really. Like. The.

[Ben Fritz]

Atmosphere.

[Thomas Curley]

You. Know. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Thomas. Bought.

[Ben Fritz]

His.

[Jessica Mendoza]

House. In. Twenty. Twenty. Three. For. Six. Hundred. Fifty. Thousand. Dollars. But. The. Recent. Downturn. In. La. Has. Hit.

[Ben Fritz]

Him.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Hard. He's. Barely. Worked. Since. April. Of. Last. Year. Now. His. Mortgage. Is.

[Ben Fritz]

In.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Forbearance. He. Never. Imagined. Himself. In. This. Situation.

[Thomas Curley]

I. Thought. That. This. House. If. The. Career. Didn't. Pause. You. Know. That. I.

[Ben Fritz]

Was.

[Thomas Curley]

Living. Below. My. Means. I. Could. Have. Theoretically. Afforded.

[Ben Fritz]

A.

[Thomas Curley]

House. Twice. That. Much. If.

[Ben Fritz]

Work.

[Thomas Curley]

Never. Stopped. You. Know. There's. Always. Kind. Of.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A.

[Thomas Curley]

Thought.

[Ben Fritz]

In.

[Thomas Curley]

The. Back. Of. Your. Head. That. This. Can. This. Can.

[Jessica Mendoza]

All.

[Thomas Curley]

Stop. But. I. Didn't. Think.

[Ben Fritz]

That. That.

[Thomas Curley]

Was. Likely.

[Jessica Mendoza]

He. Didn't. Think. It. Was. Likely. Because. The. Previous. Decade. Had. Been. Really. Good. For. Thomas. And. He. Was. Successful. His. Big. Break. Came. In. Twenty. Fourteen. On. The. Critically. Acclaimed. Indie. Film. Whiplash.

[Ben Fritz]

Five. Six. And.

[Thomas Curley]

They. Sent. Me. The. Script. And. I'd. Never.

[Ben Fritz]

Read.

[Thomas Curley]

A. Script. Faster. It. Just. Was. Blistering.

[Ben Fritz]

On.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Page. And. I. Was. Very. Excited. Immediately. So.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Whiplash. Follows.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Story. Of. A. Young. Jazz. Drummer. At. An. Elite. Music. Conservatory. Who. Becomes. Obsessed. With. Achieving. Greatness. The. Challenge.

[Ben Fritz]

For. A.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Production. Sound. Mixer. Like. Thomas. Was. Capturing. The. Actor's. Dialogue. Over. Live. Music.

[Thomas Curley]

Got.

[Ben Fritz]

Buddy.

[Thomas Curley]

Rich.

[Ben Fritz]

Here.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Thomas. Made.

[Ben Fritz]

It.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Work. By. Carefully. Layering. The. Right. Amount. Of. Pre. Recorded. Music. Along. With. Recording. Live.

[Thomas Curley]

Welcome. To.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Eighty. Seventh. Oscars. For. His. Work. On. Whiplash. Thomas. Was. Awarded. Hollywood's. Highest. Honor. And.

[Ben Fritz]

The. Oscar. Goes. To.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Whiplash.

[Ben Fritz]

Craig. Mann. Ben.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Wilkins.

[Ben Fritz]

And. Thomas.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Curly.

[Thomas Curley]

Walking. Up. To.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Stage. I. Was.

[Ben Fritz]

Just.

[Thomas Curley]

Trying.

[Ben Fritz]

Not. To.

[Thomas Curley]

Pass. Out. I. Was. Getting. Like. Short.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Of.

[Thomas Curley]

Breath. And. My. Mouth. Was. Dry. And. You. Know. I. Was. Getting. Like. Tunnel. Vision. Thanks. Mike.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And.

[Thomas Curley]

Dave. My. Crew. You.

[Ben Fritz]

Guys. Are. Awesome. Here's. Your. Here's. Your. Oscar. Yeah. Keep. It. On. This. Bookshelf.

[Thomas Curley]

Yep.

[Ben Fritz]

Was. There. A. Lot. Of. Thinking. About. Where. To. Put. An. Oscar. Where. Does.

[Thomas Curley]

One.

[Ben Fritz]

Put. An. Oscar. In. One's. House.

[Thomas Curley]

My. Options. Are. Kind.

[Ben Fritz]

Of.

[Thomas Curley]

Limited.

[Ben Fritz]

In.

[Jessica Mendoza]

This.

[Thomas Curley]

House. You. Know. But. I. Figured. A. Place.

[Ben Fritz]

Of.

[Thomas Curley]

Prominence. Is.

[Ben Fritz]

You.

[Thomas Curley]

Know.

[Jessica Mendoza]

After. He. Won. The. Oscar. Calls. For. Bigger. Budget. Longer. Term. Jobs. Flooded. In. Thomas. Worked. On. The. Hit. Tv. Show. Yellowstone. For. Three. Seasons. And. Then. In. Twenty. Twenty. Two. He. Got. Another. Gig. That. He. Thought. Would. Last. For. A. Long. Time. With. Csi. Vegas.

[Thomas Curley]

It's. Kind. Of. The. Dream. Job. For.

[Ben Fritz]

A.

[Thomas Curley]

Production. Person. To. Be. On. A. Pedigreed. Television. Show. That. Was. Almost. Guaranteed. To. Go. For. A. Very. Long. Time. And. Possibly. Even. Time. It. Out. Completely. To. Where. I.

[Ben Fritz]

Could.

[Thomas Curley]

Retire. After. The. Show. Wrapped. If. That. Had. Gone. For. Ten. Years. I. Would.

[Ben Fritz]

Have.

[Thomas Curley]

Been. Set.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Then. In. The. Summer. Of. Twenty. Twenty. Three. Everything. In. Hollywood. Stopped.

[Ben Fritz]

Hollywood. Has.

[Thomas Curley]

Gone.

[Ben Fritz]

Dark. Tonight. Sag.

[Thomas Curley]

Aftra. Actors.

[Ben Fritz]

Have. Now. Joined. Writers. Guild. Members.

[Thomas Curley]

On.

[Ben Fritz]

Strike. Against. The.

[Thomas Curley]

Studios.

[Ben Fritz]

So. All.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Of.

[Ben Fritz]

A. Sudden. Production. Just. Came. To. A. Screeching. Halt.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's. My. Colleague. Ben. Again.

[Ben Fritz]

And. Of. Course. During. A. Strike. There's. No. Work. If. You. Don't. Have. Actors. You. Don't. Have. Writers. You. Can't. Make. Anything.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What. Was. It. That. These.

[Ben Fritz]

Workers.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Wanted. What. Were. They. Fighting. For.

[Ben Fritz]

There. Was. A. Variety. Of. Things. Some. Of.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It.

[Ben Fritz]

Was. The. Basic. Stuff. Workers. Always. Want. Which. Is. Higher. Pay. And. Better. Benefits. But. They. Were. Also. Very. Concerned. About. The. Effects. Of. Artificial. Intelligence. And. They. Demanded. Protections. Against. AI. Stealing. Their. Jobs. Essentially. That. Was. Another. Big. Issue. We.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Are. Being. Victimized. By.

[Ben Fritz]

A.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Very. Greedy. Entity. I. Am.

[Thomas Curley]

Shocked.

[Ben Fritz]

By.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Way.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The. People. That. We. Have. Been. In. Business.

[Thomas Curley]

With.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Are. Treating. Us. And.

[Ben Fritz]

What.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Were. The. Studios.

[Ben Fritz]

Saying.

[Jessica Mendoza]

At. That. Time. What. Was. Happening.

[Ben Fritz]

Then. Well. The. Studios. Of. Course. Were. Saying. That. Some. Of. These. Demands. Were. Unreasonable. And. That. They. Were. Saying. That. The. Longer. You're. On. Strike. And. The. More. You. Demand. The. More. Danger. You're. Putting. This. Entire. Industry. In. As. Far. As. How. Much. Production. Is. Going. To. Get. Made.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Finally. In. The. Fall. Of. Twenty. Twenty. Three. After. Months. Of. Negotiations. The. Unions. Struck. A. Deal. With. The. Studios. And. The. Strikes. Ended. Many. Writers. Actors. And. Production. Workers. Thought. That. Hollywood. Would. Simply. Start. Back. Up. Again. And. For. Some. It. Did. For. A. While. Thomas. Went. Back. To. Work. On. Csi. But. In. The. Spring. The. Show. Was. Canceled. And. Thomas. Found. Himself. Unemployed.

[Thomas Curley]

My. Phone. Didn't. Ring. For. Months. I. Was. Reaching. Out. To. My. Network. Regularly. And. Talking.

[Ben Fritz]

To.

[Thomas Curley]

All. My. Colleagues. And. Friends. And. Seeking. Out. Information. Like. We. Do. When. We're.

[Ben Fritz]

Not.

[Thomas Curley]

Working. And. There. Was.

[Ben Fritz]

A.

[Thomas Curley]

Lot. Of. Speculation. There. Was. A. Lot. Of. You. Know.

[Ben Fritz]

Just. Sort.

[Thomas Curley]

Of. Out. Loud. Wondering. About. What's. Going. On.

[Ben Fritz]

And.

[Thomas Curley]

Maybe. The. Strikes.

[Ben Fritz]

Are.

[Thomas Curley]

Still. Having. A. Ripple. Effect. Or. Something. But. You. Know. That. Turned. Into. I. Didn't. Work. Again. All. Year.

[Ben Fritz]

Nothing. Was. Getting. Going. Nothing. Was. Getting. Going. And. People. Were. Thinking. Geez. Well. Maybe. The. Studios. Are. Just. Being. Really. Cautious. After. The. Strikes.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Ben. Spoke. To. Dozens. Of. Workers. Including. Animators. Writers. And. Production. Managers. Who. All. Told. Him. Something. Similar.

[Ben Fritz]

In. The. Past. Sometimes. There. Have. Been. Slow. Periods. But. They. Don't. Last. Too. Long. And. The. Lesson. Everybody's. Learned. Is. Just. Be. Patient. Make. Sure. You. Have. Some. Savings. To. Get. Through. A. Tough. Time. And. The. Jobs. Will. Come. Back. Soon. Enough. But. It's. Been. Two. Years. And. The. Situation. Really. Hasn't. Changed. At.

[Jessica Mendoza]

All.

[Ben Fritz]

If. Anything. It's. Gotten. Slightly.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Worse. So. It. Sounds. Like. Thomas. And. These. Other. Workers. You. Talked. To. They. Really. Just. Thought. Things. Would. Go. Back. To.

[Ben Fritz]

Normal.

[Jessica Mendoza]

After. The. Strikes. Ended. In. Twenty. Twenty. Three. Like. Even. If. It. Might.

[Ben Fritz]

Take.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A. Couple. Years.

[Ben Fritz]

Yes. That's. Exactly. What. They. Thought. I. Think. People. Didn't. Realize. That. These. Broader. Macroeconomic. Trends. Coming. Down. The. Road. Were. About. To. Hit. Them. Like. A. Semi. Truck.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Thomas. And. The. Rest. Of. Hollywood's. Creative. Middle. Class. Thought.

[Ben Fritz]

That.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The. Studios. Were. Just. Easing. Back. In. After. The. Strikes. Ended. But. Ben. Says. The. Strikes. Had. Created. An. Opportunity. For. Studios. To. Rethink. The. Entire. Business. That's. After. The.

[Ben Fritz]

Break. Foreign.

[Thomas Curley]

This.

[Ben Fritz]

Episode. Is.

[Thomas Curley]

Brought.

[Ben Fritz]

To. You. By. Us. Bank.

[Thomas Curley]

They. Don't. Just.

[Ben Fritz]

Cheer. You. On. They.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Help.

[Ben Fritz]

Every.

[Thomas Curley]

Move.

[Ben Fritz]

Count. With. Us.

[Thomas Curley]

Bank.

[Ben Fritz]

Smartly. Checking. And. Savings. Account. To. Help.

[Thomas Curley]

Track.

[Ben Fritz]

Your.

[Thomas Curley]

Spending.

[Ben Fritz]

And.

[Thomas Curley]

Grow.

[Ben Fritz]

Your.

[Thomas Curley]

Savings.

[Ben Fritz]

Your.

[Thomas Curley]

Finances.

[Ben Fritz]

Can.

[Thomas Curley]

Go.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Further.

[Ben Fritz]

Because. When. You.

[Thomas Curley]

Have.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The.

[Thomas Curley]

Right. Partner.

[Ben Fritz]

On. Your. Side. There's. No.

[Thomas Curley]

Limit.

[Ben Fritz]

To. What. You. Can. Achieve. That's.

[Thomas Curley]

The.

[Ben Fritz]

Power. Of. Us. Visit. Usbank. Dot.

[Thomas Curley]

Com.

[Ben Fritz]

Today. To. Learn. More. Copyright. Twenty. Twenty. Five. Us. Bank.

[Jessica Mendoza]

This. Message. Is. Brought.

[Ben Fritz]

To.

[Jessica Mendoza]

You. By. Apple. Card. You. Left. Your. Wallet. In. The. Car. Or. Was. It. At.

[Ben Fritz]

Home.

[Jessica Mendoza]

No. Need. To. Panic. With. Your. IPhone. You. Can. Tap. To. Pay. Using. Apple. Card. With. Apple. Pay. And. Earn. Unlimited. Daily. Cash. Back. When. You. Do. Apple. Card. Is. Ready. When. You. Need. It. Subject. To. Credit. Approval. Apple. Card. Issued. By. Goldman. Sachs. Bank. Usa. Salt. Lake. City. Branch. Terms. And. More. At. Apple. Car. To. Understand. Why. Hollywood. Didn't. Get. Back. To. Business. As. Usual. You. Need. To. Understand. What. Was. Happening. To.

[Ben Fritz]

The.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Industry. At. The. Time. Of. The. Twenty. Twenty. Three. Strikes. The. Movie. Business. Had. Taken. A. Nosedive. When. Theaters. Shut. Down. During. The. Pandemic. And. Audiences. Never. Came. Back. In. The.

[Ben Fritz]

Same.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Way. But. More. Importantly. The. Tv. Industry. Crashed.

[Ben Fritz]

And. Tv. Is. Really. The. Economic. Engine. Of. Hollywood. There's.

[Thomas Curley]

A.

[Ben Fritz]

Lot. More. Tv. Shows. Than. Movies.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Back. In. The. Late. Two. Thousand. Ten. S. And. Early. Two. Thousand. Twenties. Investors. Were. Betting. Big. On. Streaming.

[Ben Fritz]

You. Would. Have. Experienced. This. You. Know. Remember. There. Were. So. Many. Tv. Shows. On. Streaming. You. Couldn't. Keep. Up. With. Them. All. Just. A.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Few.

[Ben Fritz]

Years. Ago. It. Was.

[Jessica Mendoza]

All.

[Ben Fritz]

About. Growth. Wall. Street. Just. Wanted. To. See. These. Streaming. Services. Like. Disney. And. Apple. And. Hbo. Max. Grow. Grow. Grow. Grow. Grow. Just. Like. Any. Young. Tech. Company. It's. All. They. Cared. About.

[Jessica Mendoza]

By. Twenty. Twenty. Two. The. Us. Market. Was. Saturated. America. Seemed. Streamed. Out. That. Spring. Netflix. Said. That. For. The. First. Time. In. Over. A. Decade. It. Lost. Subscribers. In. The. First. Quarter. Suddenly. Instead. Of. Growth. Investors. Wanted. To. See. Studios. Turn. A. Profit. And. The. Studios. Figured. The. Easiest. Way. To. Do. That. Is. To. Cut. Costs. To. Just. Make. Less. Stuff.

[Ben Fritz]

The. Streaming. Bubble. Was. Popping. In. Twenty. Twenty. Three. And. The. Strikes. Provided. An. Opportunity. For. The. Studios. To. Completely. Reset. How. Much. They. Were. Making. You. Know. It's. Very. In. Hollywood. Productions. Take. A. Long. Time. To. Get. Going.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And.

[Ben Fritz]

You. Can't. Just. Turn. On. A. Dime. You. Know. But. When. When. Nothing. Was. Happening. For. Several. Months. It. Was. Actually. An. Opportunity. For. The. Studios.

[Jessica Mendoza]

To.

[Ben Fritz]

To. Really. Rethink. How. Much. They. Were. Making. And. Once. They. Restarted. In. Late. Twenty. Twenty. Three. When. The. Strikes. Were. Over. They. Restarted. At. A. Much. Lower. Level. Than. They'd. Been.

[Jessica Mendoza]

At.

[Ben Fritz]

Before. Them.

[Jessica Mendoza]

One. Data. Firm. Found. That. From. Twenty. Twenty. Two. To. Twenty. Twenty. Five. The. Number. Of. Major. Studio. Productions. That. Started. Shooting. In. The. Us. Dropped. By. More. Than. Forty. Percent.

[Ben Fritz]

And. Think. About. That. Imagine. If. There. Was. Just. Forty. Percent. Less. Work. To. Do. In. Any. Industry. Right. That's. Like. It. Would. Feel. Like. A. Depression. Hit. Out. Of. Nowhere.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A. Big. Movie. Can. Employ. Over. One. Thousand. People. For. Months. And. A. Tv. Show. Can. Employ. Hundreds. For. Even. Longer. So. With. Fewer. Productions. Jobs. Vanished.

[Ben Fritz]

Well. According. To.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The.

[Ben Fritz]

Bureau. Of. Labor. Statistics. At. The. End. Of. Twenty. Twenty. Two. So. Just. Before. The. Strikes. There. Were. One. Hundred. Forty. Two. Thousand. People. Who. Were. Working.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In.

[Ben Fritz]

The. Motion. Picture. Industry. In. Los. Angeles. County. At. The. End. Of. Twenty. Twenty. Four. There. Were. One. Hundred. Thousand. People. So. That's. Forty. Two. Thousand. Jobs. Gone. In. A. Span. Of. Two. Years. In. The.

[Thomas Curley]

Best. Years. I. Was. Making. Over. Two.

[Ben Fritz]

Hundred.

[Thomas Curley]

Thousand.

[Jessica Mendoza]

With. All. Those. Jobs. Gone. People. Like. Thomas. Are. Now. Seeing. Their. Incomes. Plummet.

[Thomas Curley]

I. Was. Actually. Making. Double. Mortgage. Payments.

[Ben Fritz]

For. A.

[Thomas Curley]

While. And. In. An. Effort. To. Pay. Down.

[Ben Fritz]

My.

[Thomas Curley]

House. Quicker. And. I. Think. This. Year. Twenty. Twenty. Five. I. Might. Be. Under. Twenty. Thousand. Income.

[Jessica Mendoza]

But. One. Corner. Of. Entertainment. Is. Booming. User. Generated. Content. Some. Analysts. Say. Audiences. Are. Permanently. Shifting. From. Hollywood. To. YouTube. And. Social. Media. Why. Couldn't. People. Just. Shift. To. Working. In. The. Creator. Industry. If. That's. Where. The. Money. Is. Going. If. That's. What's. Blossoming.

[Ben Fritz]

There's. Just. A. Lot. Fewer. Jobs. And. A. Lot. Fewer. Well. Paying. Jobs. In. YouTube. And. Especially. In. TikTok. Even. If. It's. The. Highest. Level. Professional. Stuff. Think. Of. A. Show. Like. Hot. Ones. If. You've. Ever. Watched.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That.

[Ben Fritz]

On. YouTube. That's. Still. Being. Made. By. Way. Fewer. People. Than. Make. A. Talk. Show. That's. On. NBC. Or.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Whatever.

[Ben Fritz]

They're. Just. Smaller. Productions.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And. Not. Only. Do. These. Social. Media. Productions. Hire. Fewer. People. They. Also. Don't. Pay. As. Well.

[Ben Fritz]

All. The. Jobs. Making. Content. On. YouTube. And. TikTok. Are. Not. Unionized. And. Hollywood. Is. A. Union. Town. And. The. Union. Jobs. Are. The. Ways. That. People. Are. Able. To. Make. A. Good. Middle. Class. Living.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Yeah. It's. Like. Going. Back.

[Ben Fritz]

To.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Thomas. Curley. It's. Hard. To. Imagine. You. Know. A. YouTube. Show. Sort.

[Ben Fritz]

Of.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Paying. Somebody. Like. Him. One. Hundred. Fifty. Thousand. Dollars. For. A. Show. On. YouTube.

[Ben Fritz]

Yeah. Exactly.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The. Industry. Downturn. Has. Been. Especially. Hard. On. Los. Angeles. The. City. Was. Already. Experiencing. A. Production. Exodus. To. Places. Where. Costs. Are. Lower. More. And. More. Big. Budget. Movies. Are. Shifting. Production. Overseas. To. The. Uk. Canada. And. Eastern. Europe. Ben. Says. What's. Happening. In. La. Reminds. Him. Of. Detroit. When. The. Auto. Industry. Fell. Apart. And. Thousands. Of. Union. Workers. Lost. Their. Jobs. Just. Walking. Around. La. Are. There. Signs. That. You. Can. See. That. Studios. Are. Shooting. Less.

[Ben Fritz]

Sure.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Well.

[Ben Fritz]

There's. Just. You. Know. If. You. Go. To. The. Studio. Lots. Where. There. Are. Big. Sound. Stages. A. Lot. Of. Them. Are. Empty. There's. Just. A. Lot. Less. Activity. There's. Fewer. People. Driving. Around. On. Golf. Carts. And. Walking. In. And. Out. With. Their. Costumes. And. Stuff. Because. Not. As.

[Thomas Curley]

Much.

[Ben Fritz]

Stuff. As. Shooting. And. The. Way. That. They. Measure. Production. Activity. In. La. Is. How. Many. Days. Of. Shooting. There. Are. And. The. Level. Of. Production. Activity. Last. Year. In. Los. Angeles. Was. The. Lowest. It's. Been. Since. At. Least. Nineteen. Ninety. Five. Which. Is. As. Far. Back. As. The. Data. Goes.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Thirty. Years. Like. I. Guess. Except. For. The. Pandemic.

[Ben Fritz]

Yep. Wow.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Ben. What. Does. This. All. Mean. For. The. Future. Of. Hollywood. As. An. Industry.

[Ben Fritz]

It. Means. That. Hollywood. May. Not. Ever. Come. Back. To.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The.

[Ben Fritz]

Level. That. It. Was. At. Before. I. Mean. Certainly. People.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Are.

[Ben Fritz]

Always. Going. To. Want. To. Be. Entertained. There's.

[Jessica Mendoza]

No.

[Ben Fritz]

Question. About. That. And. There's. Always. Going. To. Be. A. Place. For. The. Sort. Of. Premium. High. Quality. Productions. That. We're.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Used.

[Ben Fritz]

To. Getting. From. Disney. And. Netflix. And. So. On. But. There. May. Be. Less. Of. It. There. May. Be. Fewer. People. Working. In.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It.

[Ben Fritz]

And. Hollywood. May. Just. Be. Bottom. Line. A. Smaller. Industry. That. Employs. Fewer. People.

[Jessica Mendoza]

As. For. Thomas. He. Says. That. If. He. Doesn't. Get. A. Longer. Term. Gig. By. The. End. Of. This. Year. He. Might. Move. Out. Of. La.

[Ben Fritz]

I'll.

[Thomas Curley]

Survive. I'll. Figure. Something. Else. Out.

[Ben Fritz]

To.

[Thomas Curley]

Do. With. The. Rest. Of. My. Life. If. I. Have. To. But. I. Don't.

[Ben Fritz]

Want.

[Thomas Curley]

To.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Because. As. Hard. As. The. Financial. Loss. Is. What's. Most. Painful. To. Thomas. Is. That. He's. No. Longer. Getting. To. Do. The. Work. That. Means. So. Much. To. Him.

[Thomas Curley]

Like. I. I. Put. Everything. Into. This. You.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Know.

[Thomas Curley]

I. Put. My.

[Ben Fritz]

Whole.

[Thomas Curley]

Heart.

[Ben Fritz]

And.

[Thomas Curley]

Soul. Into. It. And. I'm. Very. Good. At.

[Ben Fritz]

It. And.

[Thomas Curley]

I. There's. Nothing. That. Should. Be. Stopping. Me. For. The. Next. Twenty. Years. If. I. Wanted. To. They. Can. Ask. Me.

[Ben Fritz]

To.

[Thomas Curley]

Do. Anything. Anywhere. And. I'll. Make.

[Ben Fritz]

It.

[Thomas Curley]

Happen.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And.

[Thomas Curley]

I'll. Make.

[Ben Fritz]

It.

[Thomas Curley]

Good. You. Know. So. It's. Not. Just. That. Like. I'm. Sad. That.

[Ben Fritz]

I.

[Thomas Curley]

Don't. Get. To. Turn. A. Wrench. Anymore. Like. I'm. Sad. That. I. Don't. Get. To. Create. Like. I. Used. To. You. Know.

[Ben Fritz]

And.

[Thomas Curley]

Help. Other. People. Create. The. Way. They.

[Ben Fritz]

Want. To.

[Thomas Curley]

And. You. Know. Like. Money. Is. Money.

[Ben Fritz]

But.

[Thomas Curley]

This. Is. More. Than.

[Ben Fritz]

That.

[Jessica Mendoza]

You.

[Thomas Curley]

Know.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It's.

[Thomas Curley]

Part. Of.

[Ben Fritz]

Me.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's. All. For. Today. Monday. November. Tenth. The. Journal. Is. A. Co. Production.

[Ben Fritz]

Of.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Spotify. And. The. Wall. Street. Journal. Additional. Reporting. In. This. Episode. By. Laura. Foreman. Special. Thanks. To. Phoebe. Unterman. Thanks. For. Listening. See. You. Tomorrow.