The Journal. – "How the ‘Chemtrails’ Conspiracy Theory Is Sabotaging One Company"

Podcast by The Wall Street Journal & Spotify Studios
Air date: December 17, 2025
Hosts: Jessica Mendoza & Ryan Knutson

Overview

This episode explores the resurgence of cloud seeding—a technology to induce rainfall—and the growing conspiracy theories, particularly “chemtrails,” that threaten its adoption. The story centers on Rainmaker, an ambitious startup leveraging drones and AI to scale modern cloud seeding, and how the company became embroiled in disinformation and public mistrust after a deadly Texas flood was wrongly linked to its operations. The episode delves into science, skepticism, and the intersection of innovation with the uniquely American tendency toward conspiracy theories.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Cloud Seeding?

• Origins & Method

  • Developed in 1946 by GE scientists to address plane wing icing ([00:17], Chris Marr).
  • Early experiments showed that adding dry ice to clouds created more precipitation ([00:32]).
  • Today, silver iodide is dispersed by planes (now sometimes drones) to help form rain or snow ([00:48], Jessica Mendoza).

• Scientific Challenges

  • Difficult to measure and verify effectiveness; technology seemed “unnatural” to some ([01:11], Jessica Mendoza & Chris Marr).
  • Social and ethical concerns about interfering with nature ([01:21], Chris Marr).

2. Modern Cloud Seeding: The Utah Experiment

• Drought Crisis

  • Utah faces severe drought, with the Great Salt Lake shrinking and raising health and economic concerns ([04:15], Chris Marr).
  • State officials believe cloud seeding could increase precipitation by around 10%—significant over decades ([05:38], Chris Marr).

• Rainmaker’s Entry

  • Startup Rainmaker, funded by Peter Thiel, introduces drones and AI weather modeling ([06:14], Jessica Mendoza).
  • Drones provide precision, safety (no pilots in storms), and real-time data ([06:52], Chris Marr).
  • “With these new radar technologies with these new drones…we can revolutionize cloud seeding and bring water to the west and to the rest of the Earth's deserts in an unprecedented way.” ([08:25], Augustus Dirico).
  • Rainmaker aims to generate 10 billion gallons of water by April—still a “fraction” of the lake’s needs ([07:18], Jessica Mendoza).

3. Facing Skepticism & Conspiracy Theories

• Public Intuition & Sci-Fi Fears
  • Augustus Dirico acknowledges “frontier” feel: “People have this sort of intuitive notion that’s God’s domain or something.” ([09:29], Augustus Dirico).
  • “We have to make this really esoteric atmospheric science information digestible…so they understand what we’re doing and that it’s not some sort of malevolent conspiracy theory by a super villain kid that wants to control the weather.” ([09:45], Augustus Dirico).

4. The Texas Flood & Conspiracy Backlash

• The Event

  • July: Deadly floods strike Texas; soon after, online theories tie Rainmaker’s recent cloud seeding nearby to the disaster ([12:16], Chris Marr).
  • High-profile figures like Gen. Michael Flynn and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene amplify the claims ([13:04]).

• Scientific Refutation

  • Rainmaker only seeded clouds “150 miles from the site,” producing a negligible water increase ([12:44], Chris Marr).
  • “It’s not possible scientifically or with the laws of physics for the company to have produced the quantities of water that came down from this storm system.” ([13:49], Chris Marr).
  • Rainmaker suspended operations upon noticing the major storm approaching.

• Augustus Dirico Responds

  • Expresses empathy for the tragedy and caution in discussing conspiracy theories:
    “I would be remiss to be glib about it and…talk about conspiracy theories casually.” ([14:37], Augustus Dirico).
  • Wasn’t surprised by conspiracy attention, but shocked at the intensity:
    “I had no idea that congresspeople would be posting my face on their Twitter...It was very acute in that moment, for sure.” ([15:06], Augustus Dirico).

5. The Enduring Chemtrails Myth

• What Are ‘Chemtrails’?

  • Some believe airplane vapor trails are toxic chemicals for weather or mind control.
    “There’s no evidence that any of this is true.” ([16:14], Jessica Mendoza).
  • Still, the myth gets reinforced by officials like RFK Jr. ([16:28], Chris Marr).
  • Chris Marr debunks: “Chemtrails don’t exist. They are the condensation trails that come out from jets...” ([16:28], Chris Marr).

• Policy Repercussions

  • States like Louisiana, Tennessee, and Florida ban weather modification; over 30 others consider similar bills ([16:44], Jessica Mendoza).
  • Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis:
    “People got a lot of kooky ideas that they can get in and put things in the atmosphere to block the sun . . . We're not playing that game in Florida.” ([16:53], Chris Marr).

• Augustus Dirico on American Distrust

  • Links susceptibility to conspiracy to individualist history and distrust of institutions:
    “Our unique distrust in institutions as a country means…we are more liable to conspiracy theories and their consequences.” ([17:22], Augustus Dirico).
  • Sees Rainmaker’s path as a chance to “reset the standard of transparency and deserved and earned trust.”

6. The State of Cloud Seeding Technology

• Still Early Days

  • Rainmaker is working out drone durability, weather resistance, and operational scale ([18:41], Chris Marr).
  • “It’s an iterative process…they have drones that sometimes fall out of the sky…a lot of figuring out.” ([18:59], Chris Marr).
  • Possibility of creating a new water business if results can be reliably measured ([19:40], Chris Marr).

• Bigger Picture

  • Tension between technological leaps and persistent unscientific thinking:
    “The two are really colliding right here in this story.” ([19:48], Chris Marr).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cloud Seeding's “Frontier” Reputation:

  • “Cloud seeding and weather modification, it’s very frontier. It has to do with modifying the sky and people have this sort of intuitive notion that like that’s God’s domain…”
    — Augustus Dirico ([09:29])

• On Technological Innovation:

  • “With these new radar technologies with these new drones. With all this new software, we can revolutionize cloud seeding and bring water to the west and to the rest of the Earth's deserts in an unprecedented way.”
    — Augustus Dirico ([08:25])

• On Conspiracy Theory Impact:

  • “I had no idea that congresspeople would be posting my face on their Twitter and that former American generals would be tweeting about cloud seeding and indicating that they thought cloud seeding was responsible for floods.”
    — Augustus Dirico ([15:06])

• On American Distrust:

  • “Our unique distrust in institutions as a country means...we are more liable to conspiracy theories and their consequences.”
    — Augustus Dirico ([17:22])

• Scientific Debunking:

  • “Chemtrails don’t exist. They are the condensation trails that come out from jets as they burn fuel and that hits the cold, very cold atmosphere, and basically you’re seeing a trail of ice crystals in the sky.”
    — Chris Marr ([16:28])

• On the Intersection of Science & Society:

  • “It’s a great example of trying to take an old technology…really bring in AI and drones…to address a very real problem…but at the same time running into these very unscientific ways of thinking.”
    — Chris Marr ([19:48])

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:05–02:26: Cloud seeding basics and history; introduction of skepticism
• 04:15–06:07: Utah’s water crisis and adoption of cloud seeding; economic and health stakes
• 06:14–08:52: Rainmaker startup story, technology, scale, and vision
• 09:29–10:15: Discussing public apprehension and necessity for transparency
• 11:52–12:44: Texas floods and Rainmaker’s connection; spread of conspiracies
• 13:04–13:49: Political amplification and Rainmaker’s scientific rebuttal
• 14:22–15:32: Augustus reflects on becoming a lightning rod for conspiracy accusations
• 16:44–17:22: Chemtrails myth, legal bans, and the role of American distrust
• 18:41–19:48: Technology limitations and the challenge of moving from idea to large-scale impact
• 19:48–20:23: Final commentary on the collision of science and public suspicion

Conclusion

The episode paints a vivid picture of how innovative climate intervention efforts are both propelled and hampered by public and political perceptions. Rainmaker’s experience underscores not only the technical hurdles of making rain on demand, but also the formidable challenge of combating conspiracy theories in an environment primed for skepticism. The future of such technology depends not only on science and engineering but on public trust and the ability to “reset the standard of transparency.”