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Ryan Knudsen (4:07)

So Jose, you were on our podcast a few months ago talking about the rise of El Mencho. Can you refresh our memory? Who is he and how did he come to power?

Jose de Cordoba (4:16)

El Mencho is a former Mexican cop who actually lived in the US Illegally for a number of years and then was deported back to Mexico and joined the police force of a town. And there he married into the cartel and made his way up the chain.

Ryan Knudsen (4:39)

By the early 2010s, El Mencho had risen to become the head of the Jalisco New Generation cartel. Over the next few years, his cartel became the main rival to the Sinaloa Cartel, which was headed up by the infamous El Chapo. But after El chapo's arrest in 2016, the Sinaloa cartel fractured and El Mencho seized power. How far reaching was his empire? What did he control?

Jose de Cordoba (5:04)

The heart of his empire is the Jalisco cartel in the state of Jalisco, where the state capital is Guadalajara, one of Mexico's most important cities. He was sort of a shadow government in that state. I'm told that nothing moved without his knowing about it and giving the say so. But his operations stretched across the country in, you know, in something like 2/3 of the states in Mexico. He had operations in something like 30 foreign countries.

Ryan Knudsen (5:39)

El Mencho's cartel became the world's top trafficker of cocaine. According to US And Mexican authorities, the cartel would transport the drugs by the ton from Colombia to Ecuador and then north to Mexico by speedboats and semi submersibles. But becoming the biggest drug lord brings a lot of attention.

Jose de Cordoba (5:58)

The Trump administration has put unrelenting pressure on the Mexican government to go after drug cartels ever since Trump assumed the presidency the second time around. He threatened and imposed tariffs on Mexican goods and basically said that the reason he was doing so was because Mexico was a threat to the United States.

Donald Trump (6:21)

The cartels are waging war in America. And it's time for America to wage war on the cartels, which we are doing.

Ryan Knudsen (6:28)

At the start of his second term, President Trump designated drug cartels a terrorist organization which analysts say can open the door for direct US Military action.

Jose de Cordoba (6:38)

Trump has, I think on most phone calls that he's had with Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum, he's offered to have American troops come in and do either joint operations or solo operations in Mexico.

Ryan Knudsen (6:55)

Jose says that for Mexico, attention from the Trump administration is a mixed blessing. On the one hand, US Intelligence training and equipment is helpful, but Mexican authorities also want to maintain autonomy.

Jose de Cordoba (7:07)

You have to remember that Mexico lost half of its territory in the 19th century to the United States in the Mexican American war. So there's a long history of U.S. interference in Mexico's domestic affairs that Mexico does not like. So Steinbaum is playing a very difficult game because she wants to stop at all costs a U.S. intrusion here.

Ryan Knudsen (7:37)

Still, Mexican authorities decided to work with U.S. intelligence agencies to monitor El Mencho. And over the last few months, they had a breakthrough.

Jose de Cordoba (7:46)

Mexican intelligence had been tracking El Mencho's associates and they tracked a person who was close to one of his lovers and who delivered the lover to this hideaway where they suspected Mencho was at.

Ryan Knudsen (8:02)

So they were following somebody that happened to deliver a mistress to El Mencho.

Jose de Cordoba (8:07)

Yes. And when Mencho came out and greeted her, they, they figured that, that he was there and then set in motion this raid.

Ryan Knudsen (8:19)

The raid happened in Tapalpa, a town in the Sierra Madre mountains of Jalisco, just a couple hours south of Guadalajara.

Jose de Cordoba (8:27)

It's a very beautiful mountain town, colonial town, with a 17th century Jesuit church among the mountains and pine forests. But the battle took place in this place with the cabins about two miles from the town.

Ryan Knudsen (8:44)

Dozens of heavily armed soldiers, armored military vehicles, drones and combat helicopters descended onto the normally quiet town.

Jose de Cordoba (8:53)

They hit this place really early in the morning. There was a firefight that went on for about five hours in which against these very heavily armed bodyguards. Mencho and two others were wounded and taken on a plane where they died on the way to the hospital.

Ryan Knudsen (9:13)

After that, the Jalisco cartel started its violent rampage across the country.

Jose de Cordoba (9:18)

The cartel responds with by carjacking cars and setting them on fire. They set 252 fires or roadblocks in 20 Mexican states. And so, you know, they basically disrupted the whole country, causing, you know, schools to close, people to stay indoors and sit it out. So, yes, it was quite a shock.

Ryan Knudsen (9:49)

Why did the cartel do this? Why create all this Chaos.

Jose de Cordoba (9:54)

They wanted to show, you know, the government that they were forced to contend with.

Ryan Knudsen (10:00)

Jose says that the Jalisco cartel will also likely start fighting internally.

Jose de Cordoba (10:05)

I mean, there are about three of his lieutenants who could be contenders to follow him. They don't like each other much. So everyone is expecting a battle to succeed. Mensho everyone is expecting a lot of violence as these possible successors fight for the leadership position.

Ryan Knudsen (10:29)

So is the potential for more violence something that Mexican authorities anticipated?

Jose de Cordoba (10:34)

I think historically they've gone after cartel bosses who become too big. You know, this is known as the kingpin strategy. You go after the top guy, but the problem is that when you do that a lot of the time, that results in a lot of violence, because what you have is that the lieutenants of that organization fight to get control to replace the guy who's just been captured or killed. And the result is a lot of killings. If you look at Sinaloa, for instance, when El Mayo Zambada, one of the main leaders, was kidnapped by another leader, that set off a civil war in which 2,000 people have been killed and 3,000 people have disappeared. And the army has really been unable to stop that violence.

Ryan Knudsen (11:29)

Mexican authorities said Monday that they deployed thousands of soldiers to restore calm and prevent violence. The country's security minister also said that if the military is able to capture those who head the cartel's different armed units, then the risk of a major outbreak of violence would go down. Coming up, what El Mencho's death might mean for the drug trade.

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Ryan Knudsen (13:27)

On Monday, the Mexican government held a press conference.

Jose de Cordoba (13:30)

Buenos dias a toda a citodos. The press conference. Mexico's defense minister, who's an army general, gave the details about the operation. And the most moving moment was that when he was talking about the losses that the Mexican military had suffered. As I say, you know, 25 dead, his voice broke. And that moment really captured the nation because, you know, it. I think it was unprecedented to see a top military officer react in such an emotional manner to the deaths of his men.

Ryan Knudsen (14:23)

President Claudia Sheinbaum also spoke Mexico.

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Jose de Cordoba (14:29)

She basically what she did was to praise the Mexican soldiers who had done this. And she underlined that this has been a Mexica, a totally Mexican operation, that there have been no American boots on the ground, although she said that the US had helped with his intelligence. So, I mean, she would not have wanted to have the US Come and take out El Mencho, and that's why Mexican troops did it. And so she underlined that it was a Mexican operation, that Mexico and the US Worked well together against the drug threat against cartels, but that the US Was careful to respect Mexican territorial integrity. That is, you know, they weren't sending troops in, and any sort of US Incursion was not welcome.

Ryan Knudsen (15:30)

It seems like she's trying to also thread a bit of a needle in praising President Trump and the U.S. s help, but also making it clear that this was solely a Mexican operation.

Jose de Cordoba (15:40)

Yes, that's precisely what she's doing. She's trying to keep Trump at bay, keep Trump happy, while preventing a US Unilateral military action that would cause a big crisis between the two countries.

Ryan Knudsen (15:58)

What has the Trump administration been saying about this operation?

Jose de Cordoba (16:02)

They praised it.

Ryan Knudsen (16:04)

During his State of the Union address last night, President Trump talked about the U.S. s efforts against drug cartels.

Donald Trump (16:10)

Really large parts of Mexico have been controlled by murderous drug cartels. That's why I designated these cartels as foreign terrorist organizations, and I declared illicit fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction.

Ryan Knudsen (16:28)

And he specifically called out the operation against El Mencho.

Donald Trump (16:31)

We've also taken down one of the most sinister cartel kingpins. You saw that yesterday.

Ryan Knudsen (16:38)

Meanwhile, for the people of Mexico, the decision to take out El Mencho will affect everyday life, possibly for A long time.

Jose de Cordoba (16:47)

When the leader of the top narco organization is taken out, chaos may ensue. And that chaos is, you know, is very difficult for the people who live there to live there because basically many people are killed and business really suffers. You know, Guadalajara is a place where it's one of the sites for the World cup this summer. So people are worried about security there.

Ryan Knudsen (17:15)

Now, we're already hearing a lot of reports of people canceling their trips to Mexico, and people in the tourism industry being in the short term, very impacted by this.

Jose de Cordoba (17:27)

I mean, I don't think, you know, seeing the pictures of burning cars and plumes of black smoke pouring into the sky are a good advertisement for tourism in Mexico. I mean, there's a trade off, as I've said, there's a trade off between maintaining the Pax Narca, you know, the narco piece and going after the bosses and breaking it, and then having all this violence break out. But that's not to say, obviously, that Mexico has to maintain law and order because you cannot allow mobsters or drug bosses to run parts of your country.

Ryan Knudsen (18:16)

What do you think this will mean for the. For the drug trade? Do you think this will. This will change anything?

Jose de Cordoba (18:23)

No. I mean, look, drugs is driven by demand, by American demand, which is huge. And, you know, until the United States does something about that, this is nothing. This is like whack a mole, you know, and it's an eternal game of whack a mole. It's been going on for decades. It's, you know, it makes for good scripts for Netflix movies, and that's about it.

Ryan Knudsen (19:01)

That's all for today. Wednesday, February 25th. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Vera Bergen Gruen, Santiago Perez and Cajal Vias. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

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