Inside Trump and Netanyahu’s Complicated Relationship

Summary

Podcast Summary: Inside Trump and Netanyahu’s Complicated Relationship

Podcast: The Journal.
Hosts: Ryan Knutson & Jessica Mendoza
Episode Date: June 23, 2026
Primary Focus: An inside look at the evolving and often tumultuous political and personal dynamics between President Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, particularly in the context of U.S.–Israel cooperation during war with Iran.

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the high-stakes, tension-filled relationship between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu. Initially marked by close collaboration, the relationship unravels as both leaders’ priorities diverge during the ongoing conflict with Iran. The episode dissects how this alliance impacts U.S. policy, Israel’s military actions, and the overall prospects for peace in the Middle East.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Foundation and Evolution of the Relationship (03:18–06:55)

• Early Rapport: Trump and Netanyahu forged a close partnership during Trump’s first term, frequently discussing military operations.
• Strain over 2020 Election (03:25): Trump was frustrated when Netanyahu congratulated Joe Biden on his win and did not support Trump’s claims of election fraud, leading to a cool period between them.
• Restoration: Upon Trump’s return to office, Netanyahu made efforts to rebuild ties, visiting Washington often and adopting a notably familiar tone—he calls Trump “Donald,” unlike many other world leaders (04:02).
• The Gold Pager Gift (04:21–05:10): Netanyahu presented Trump with a gold pager, symbolizing Israeli intelligence prowess. Trump was notably impressed and enjoyed showcasing the gift:
  • “He brought him a gold pager that was supposed to be like the pagers that the Israelis used to blow up Hamas operatives back in 2024.” – Josh Dossey [04:21]

Netanyahu’s Strategic Goal: War with Iran (05:40–06:55)

• Netanyahu has pursued U.S. military action against Iran for years.
• Trump, frustrated with Iran and emboldened after successes like the removal of Venezuela’s Maduro, became more open to forceful intervention in his second term.
• Netanyahu tightly used private calls—“almost every day, if not every day”—to advocate sustained conflict with Iran.

Joint Military Action Heightens Alliance (06:28–09:18)

• Pre-War Collaboration: U.S. and Israel bombed Iranian nuclear targets together, deepening trust and operational partnership.
• Constant Communication: During the war’s early days, Trump and Netanyahu coordinated almost daily, planning targeted strikes and sharing strategic intelligence (09:18).
• The Apex: “I think they were both happy with how things were going in the early days and weeks of the war… It looked like a military campaign that was working.” – Josh Dossey [09:18]

Tensions Surface: Policy Divergence (10:26–11:14)

• As the conflict drags, Trump faces increasing domestic pressure—economic issues (especially gas prices), Republican divisions, and growing frustration among business leaders regarding disruptions like the closed Strait of Hormuz.
• Trump begins seeking an exit and a deal to end the war before U.S. midterms, in contrast to Netanyahu’s push for continued military escalation.

Collapse of Trust: The Ceasefire Episode (13:08–17:05)

• Secret Ceasefire Talks (13:08): Trump negotiates a ceasefire with Iran without informing Netanyahu, fueling Israeli mistrust.
• Lebanon Strikes: Israel’s continued bombing of Hezbollah in Lebanon risks undermining the U.S.-Iran deal and infuriates Trump:
  • “You don't have to knock down an apartment house every time you're looking for somebody because there are a lot of people in those apartment houses, and they're not all Hezbollah.” – Donald Trump [00:40]
• Blame and Frustration: Trump accuses Netanyahu of sabotaging the potential peace deal (14:42); calls between them grow heated, with Trump reportedly saying Netanyahu was “effing crazy” [00:52].
• The Breaking News: On his birthday, Trump briefs journalist Josh Dossey about the Iran deal amidst a festive White House UFC event (15:29–15:34).
• Trump's official position: “My relationship with Netanyahu has been very good. But, you know, he gets carried away sometimes, and it works to a disadvantage.” – Donald Trump [16:25]

Divergent National Interests (17:05–19:53)

• U.S. vs. Israeli Priorities: Trump is focused on optics and domestic pressures, while Israel’s existential concerns with Iran are paramount.
  • “Their concerns are not the gas prices of the United States… We've got these people right near us who can send missiles on us to go get a nuclear weapon, who want us that.” – Josh Dossey [18:00]
• Power Dynamics and Uncertainty: Although Trump claims to be “in charge,” ongoing Israeli actions raise the possibility of unilateral moves if Israel dislikes the terms of a deal.
• Transactional Nature: Trump’s relationships, including with Netanyahu, are famously transactional and prone to rapid shifts depending on personal and political circumstances.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On U.S.-Israel Dependency:
  “Without the United States, there would be no Israel. Without me, there would be no Israel. There's no Israel.”
  – Donald Trump [00:13]
• On Netanyahu’s Personality:
  “He gets carried away sometimes, and it works to a disadvantage.”
  – Donald Trump [16:25]
• On the Limits of Escalation:
  “You don't have to knock down an apartment house every time... there are a lot of people in those apartment houses, and they're not all Hezbollah.”
  – Donald Trump [00:40]
• On Iran-Israel Proximity & Risks:
  “This regime, you know, death to Israel ... their concerns are not, you know, the gas prices of the United States ... We've got these people right near us who can send missiles on us to go get a nuclear weapon.”
  – Josh Dossey [18:00]
• On Trump’s Shifting Alliances:
  “Someone can be his best friend and then he can turn on them and then he can come back to being friends with them later sometimes, or they can be enemies forever.”
  – Josh Dossey [18:31]

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Important Timestamps

• Relationship Origins & Early Tension: 03:18–06:03
• Gold Pager Story: 04:21–05:16
• Joint U.S.-Israel Iran Strikes: 06:28–07:55
• Strategic Divergence Emerges: 10:26–11:54
• Secret Ceasefire Talks and Fallout: 13:08–17:05
• Discussion on National Interests & Conclusion: 17:05–19:53

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Conclusion

The episode provides a vivid, behind-the-scenes account of how personal dynamics, strategic aims, and domestic politics have shaped a pivotal alliance at a critical moment. As Trump seeks an exit and Netanyahu pushes for continued military operations, their diverging interests threaten to upend the fragile balance in the region. The transactional nature of Trump’s alliances—where today’s friend can be tomorrow’s adversary—underscores the uncertainty that continues to hang over U.S.-Israel relations and Middle East peace.

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For listeners interested in international policy, political personalities, and the high-stakes drama of U.S.-Israel relations, this episode offers a compelling and deeply reported breakdown.

Transcript

[Ryan Knudsen]

Lately, President Donald Trump has been increasingly critical of one of America's closest allies.

[Donald Trump]

Without the United States, there would be no Israel. Without me, there would be no Israel. There's no Israel.

[Ryan Knudsen]

More specifically, Trump has been calling out Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.

[Donald Trump]

I've had a great relationship with Bibi, but now Bibi has to be more responsible with respect to Lebanon.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's Trump. At a press conference last week, he went on to criticize Netanyahu's tactics against one of Iran's allies in Lebanon.

[Donald Trump]

Hezbollah and too many people are being killed. And you don't have to knock down an apartment house every time you're looking for somebody because there are a lot of people in those apartment houses, and they're not all Hezbollah.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Their conversations in private have gotten heated, too. At one point, Trump told Netanyahu over the phone that he was, quote, effing crazy. Why is the relationship between Trump and Netanyahu important?

[Josh Dossey]

Well, it's important because A, it's one of, you know, the United States top allies, and B, the two men have been prosecuting this war together in Iran for the last four or five months.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's our colleague Josh Dossey.

[Josh Dossey]

They went in together. Netanyahu was critical to convincing the president that it was a good idea. The troops have been fighting together and sort of how this winds down the relationship between those two men is integral to figuring out what happens next in the Middle East.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Ryan knudsen. It's Tuesday, June 23rd. Coming up on the show, inside the complicated relationship between Trump and Netanyahu.

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[Ryan Knudsen]

Can you tell me about the history of this relationship between President Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu? When does it begin?

[Josh Dossey]

Obviously, in the first term, the two men were in close touch and talked a lot about military operations. But President Trump said near the end of his first term that he was frustrated that Netanyahu congratulated Joe Biden in 2020 for his win and did not parrot the president's false claims of election fraud. And then the two men in the out of office years, I don't think talked all that regularly. But when President Trump came back in office, Netanyahu was very careful to create strong ties with him. He visited Washington repeatedly.

[Ryan Knudsen]

And Netanyahu calls Trump Donald.

[Josh Dossey]

That's correct, yes. And a lot of the other world leaders don't do that. That's a different thing. It certainly speaks to the familiarity of their relationship.

[Ryan Knudsen]

During one of Netanyahu's visits to Washington just a few weeks after Trump's inauguration, Netanyahu came bearing a gift.

[Josh Dossey]

He brought him a gold pager that was supposed to be like the pagers that the Israelis used to blow up Hamas operatives back in 2024.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Israeli intelligence hid explosives and pagers that Hezbollah operatives in Lebanon were using and then blew them up.

[Josh Dossey]

It was sort of viewed as an intelligence coup by the Mossad. And a lot of folks were sort of wowed by how do they do that, including the President. I interviewed Senator Lindsey Graham, who said to the president was just sort of dazzled by this pager operation. So when Netanyahu visited the White House last year, he brought a gold pager and gave it to President Trump as a gift to show him this is how the pager looks. And here's one in your trademark color, gold. And the president really loved that gift.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's an interesting present. Here's a gold version of the thing that we use to blow up our enemies.

[Josh Dossey]

It is a curious present. I don't know if there's anything else you can say besides that.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Do you know where he keeps it?

[Josh Dossey]

I don't know where he keeps it, though I do know that he showed it off to multiple visitors. As you know, he keeps all sorts of trademark kind of gifts that various CEOs and folks give him in the White House. And pager is something that he regularly shows people

[Ryan Knudsen]

with all this attention. Netanyahu had an objective. He wanted to convince Trump to take military action against Iran.

[Josh Dossey]

Netanyahu has wanted, you know, for a long time. He's tried to convince other US Presidents to do this as well, and they've never gone for it. I mean, that was Netanyahu's goal. That was his dream, to get Trump to go along with him on this sort of major expedition.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Trump was open to it.

[Josh Dossey]

President Trump was certainly frustrated with the Iranians. And he came back in in the second term, I think, more willing than he ever was in the first term to have sustained military conflict with them. And I think Netanyahu used that as an opportunity. And I think in one way, their interests were more aligned here because the president was more confident in the military, was more willing to take on Iran in a forceful way.

[Ryan Knudsen]

A year ago, before the war started, the US Worked with Israel to bomb nuclear targets in Iran.

[News Reporter]

The US Hit three nuclear sites in Iran overnight. President Trump is claiming success after the

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US Airstrikes on three key Iranian nuclear sites over the.

[Ryan Knudsen]

But Netanyahu wanted more from the US through the fall and winter, Netanyahu kept lobbying the president, showing him intelligence reports and pushing him to take on Iran long term.

[Josh Dossey]

One of the things that was striking to us in the reporting of the story, which is how often the two men talk. I mean, we had people both close to Netanyahu and close to President Trump who say, you know, they often talk almost every day, if not every day. Right. He talks to Netanyahu more than he does any other world leader. And that was sort of striking to us because in the fall and in the winter, the Prime Minister, Bibi Netanyahu, was really using these phone calls, you know, to push for a more sustained conflict than the twelfth Day War that happened last year.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Early this year, Netanyahu returned to Washington for what would turn out to be a highly consequential meeting.

[Josh Dossey]

Netanyahu and his team came to the White House, and they all ended up down in a Situation Room where he was showing him Israeli intelligence. There were top officials from the United States side and the Israeli side looking at this intelligence and the other folks in Trump's orbit, you know, Secretary of State, various top aides, were more skeptical of the Israeli plan in Israeli intelligence. And President Trump was. And it was sort of a seminal moment in the lead up to this war.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Why?

[Josh Dossey]

He was a guy who ran in 2024 on no new wars. He's sort of bid against far intervention in a lot of ways. And one of the things that came through in our conversations with our sources, Lindsey Graham and others, told us that Netanyahu convinced the president, you know, that it would work well, that there would be the confidence of the US Military, the confidence of the operation. That meeting in the Situation Room with the number of other phone calls that Netanyahu had with Trump, I think helped push him over the edge to go forward in the war in Iran.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Trump had been frustrated by stalled negotiations over Iran's nuclear program. And he was feeling emboldened after his success removing Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. So he decided to attack Iran.

[News Reporter]

The United States and Israel have launched what President Donald Trump has called major combat operations in Iran, the US And

[Josh Dossey]

Israel carrying out an unprecedented military operation, crippling Tehran's leadership by taking out Iran.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So Netanyahu gets Trump on board and then at the end of February, Israel and the US Attack Iran. How would you characterize their relationship at that point?

[Josh Dossey]

It was the apex of their relationship. Right. They were talking every day, they were sharing notes. They, I think, were both happy with how things were going in the early days and weeks of the war. They were able to take out Iranians top leadership, you know, pretty quickly. They were destroying naval ports, they were destroying, you know, air force areas. There was little defense originally from the Iranians. And it looked like a military campaign that was working.

[Ryan Knudsen]

You said they were talking every day. What were they talking about?

[Josh Dossey]

Yeah, a senior person in the White House said to me that they had on all these calls, a lot of them are Bibi saying, you know, here's how we should blow something up, here's how our intelligence can do it, here's what it would, you know, mean to the Iranians, here's how it would hurt them, here's how I would pressure them and trying to convince the President to do it. Energy, infrastructure, other things that even the President originally did not think were smart moves by the US and so this person was saying to me that BB always comes in with a plan of what should we bomb next and here's how we know it will be effective and here's what we will do.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Okay, so when did their relationship start to deteriorate?

[Josh Dossey]

Well, they've started to change in recent weeks. I think the President is coming under a lot of heat domestically for what's going on with the United States economy, what's going on with, you know, gas prices, what's going on, you know, within the 50 states. Right. A lot of Republicans splintering even on the war. A lot of frustration from all CEOs and others in the business community about the closed Strait of Hormuz, and a lot of sort of just malcontent that there's no sort of endgame that looks great for the United States. The President has started Looking more for a deal, right? Some way to end this for himself, to end this for the country ahead of the midterms.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Netanyahu, on the other hand, wants to keep fighting.

[Josh Dossey]

And Bibi Netanyahu was less interested in some sort of deal with the Iranians. Netanyahu was more committed to, you know, destroying all the sites, getting all the materials, you know, really making the Iranians hurt in a way that I think the president, you know, was more interested in, you know, let's secure reopening the strait. Let's get them to say they won't have any more nuclear weapons. And so what you're seeing really is Netanyahu sort of in the same kind of position he was at the beginning of the war. And President Trump is ready for a big change.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's after the break.

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[Ryan Knudsen]

A little over a week ago, President Trump was working on a new ceasefire deal with Iran. But Netanyahu and the Israelis didn't know about it.

[Josh Dossey]

Netanyahu was not part of the conversations, and he did not understand that the United States was about to sign this deal. The Israelis believed that they were more likely to do more strikes instead of a deal. And initially, they don't even give a text of a memorandum of understanding. They don't even know what it says. Netanyahu was fiercely trying to get a meeting with President Trump, who's going overseas for the G7 and has all sorts of surrogates and allies reaching out to the president to express concern about the deal. And the president's pretty resolute, you know, I want a deal.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Trump, meanwhile, was becoming increasingly frustrated with Netanyahu. Because Israel continued to bomb Lebanon, where Hezbollah is based.

[News Reporter]

Israel has just carried out strikes on Beirut's southern suburbs. Israel has bombed sites in southern Beirut, killing at least three people.

[Ryan Knudsen]

These strikes in Lebanon, what was the significance of that, and why did that upset President Trump?

[Josh Dossey]

Well, it upset the president because he was on the cusp of striking a deal with the Iranians. And what he's afraid is gonna happen is it's gonna blow up the entire calculus. Right, and that the Iranians are going to be less likely to make a deal with these missiles flying, you know, back and forth. Right? So what you're seeing happen this day, he's trying to get these terms of a deal with the Iranians, and Netanyahu is on a different page and, you know, is launching kinetic action, and the president is apoplectic about it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

On Saturday, June 13, Trump spoke with Netanyahu over the phone. And according to Josh's sources, Trump scolded him for bombing Beirut and accused him of trying to sabotage the agreement. The next day, Josh called Trump on

[Josh Dossey]

his cell phone on Sunday, his birthday. I actually called him in the morning because I saw he had posted about the strikes in Lebanon and his upset his. Him not wanting these strikes in Lebanon. And I said, if he's posting on this on truth social media, you know, I'm gonna call him and see if he wants to say anything. And he didn't answer. And then three or four hours later, he called me back.

[Ryan Knudsen]

As the White House was getting ready for a UFC fight on the South Lawn.

[Josh Dossey]

The White House is decked out for a UFC extravaganza to help commemorate America's 250th anniversary.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Trump surprised Josh with some news. He'd reached a deal with Iran, and

[Josh Dossey]

he said, oh, we have this deal with the Iranians, you know, xyz. And the president often speaks in sort of, you know, hyperbole, and sometimes you have to figure out what's actually going on and what's actually true. And I wanted to ask him about, you know, Netanyahu, but he instead, you know, was basically breaking the news to me that we actually have his deal. And so we talked about it for a little bit. I reported that to my colleagues. You know, I just cuffed on with President Trump. He says, there's his deal with the Iranians. And then we proceeded with the story that afternoon sort of about the terms of the deal.

[News Reporter]

U.S. and Iranian officials said Sunday that they've agreed on a framework to end months of both sides have declared the immediate and permanent termination of military Operations on all fronts, including Lebanon.

[Ryan Knudsen]

And did you ask Trump about his relationship with Netanyahu?

[Josh Dossey]

Yeah, I did. I said. I asked him, you know, if he was frustrated with the Lebanon strikes. And he said, my relationship with Netanyahu has been very good. But, you know, he gets carried away sometimes, and it works to a disadvantage.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Trump said Israel's decision to bomb Lebanon the day before was a mistake.

[Josh Dossey]

The reason you sort of could never have peace in the Middle east, according to the president that afternoon, was this side fires missiles, and then the other side has to fire back, and then you just have missiles, missiles, and we gotta stop it. Right. And that's something that he had told Netanyahu several times over the course of the war when he was frustrated. Stop blowing up these buildings in Lebanon. Stop doing this, stop doing that.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So Trump got this deal with the Iranians, but is Israel gonna go along with it?

[Josh Dossey]

That's a good question. I don't think we know how this is all going to play out. Right. They're having all these technical discussions right now. His top advisors in the Iranians, and, you know, if he proceeds on this track, and Netanyahu and the Israelis really dislike the terms of a deal, do not think they keep them safe. You know, think the president is going into something that he shouldn't. What will they continue doing? Will they do something unilaterally? I think that's the question. I mean, the president said to me on the phone about Netanyahu and basically said, I'm in charge here and he's not. But does that dynamic stand if the two men are at divergent odds?

[Ryan Knudsen]

I mean, obviously, for Israel as well, like, this is so much more existential. I mean, Iran is a country that has been saying for years, this regime, you know, death to Israel. And it has these proxies in the area that are within striking distance. You know, this is their neighborhood.

[Josh Dossey]

Yeah. And that's what the Israelis say. Israelis say that, you know, their concerns are not, you know, the gas prices of the United States. Right. I mean, I'm not saying they want them to be high, but they're saying, we've got these people right near us who can send missiles on us to go get a nuclear weapon, who want us that. And they care more about the particular terms, I think, in some ways, than the president does.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Even if Trump does hold a lot of the power here, he still needs Netanyahu to go along with what he wants. Right.

[Josh Dossey]

Trump definitely needs him. But the real core of this. Right, is that Netanyahu has been central to this war, which, you know, the president says has been a successful campaign and that it's gone after the Iranians. But if you talk to a lot of people around him, if you talk to his top advisors, if you talk to his longtime allies, you know, the war has been an albatross on his approval numbers. It's been sort of against what he campaigned on. It's hurt him in a lot of ways back home. And he wants it over. He's ready to be done with it. Right. But Netanyahu doesn't want this thing to be over. And so if Netanyahu continues to push, push, push for military action and for things the president doesn't want, we've seen time and time again over the last decade watching President Trump closely. You know, someone can be his best friend and then he can turn on them and then he can come back to being friends with them later sometimes, or they can be enemies forever. Right. I mean, he's very transactional in his relationships. And in 2025, I think the president viewed his relationship with Netanyahu as a positive. They were talking about things that both men wanted and even in 2026. But I don't know if that's true any.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's all for today. Tuesday, June 23rd. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Vera Bergen Gruen, Robbie Grammer, Anat Peled and Alexander Ward. Thanks for listening. See you, Tom.

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