Podcast Summary: The Journal. – "Kathy Hochul on Mamdani, Trump and Where Democrats Went Wrong"

Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Ryan Knutson
Guest: New York Governor Kathy Hochul
Recorded live at the Gramercy Theatre, NYC

Overview

In this live-taped episode, Governor Kathy Hochul sits down with Ryan Knutson to discuss the deep divisions within the Democratic Party, her approach to leadership during a national government shutdown, her working relationship with President Trump, and the ongoing debates shaping New York’s (and the nation’s) political future. She addresses core policy disputes—from health care and taxation to immigration enforcement and Democratic messaging—highlighting her efforts to balance pragmatic governance with progressive values.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Government Shutdown: Impact on New York

• Immediate Consequences:

  • Tens of thousands of federal workers in NY are unemployed due to the shutdown ([02:53]).
  • Notices sent out to 400,000 people about potential loss of health coverage.
  • Programs like WIC and SNAP are threatened, causing widespread suffering.
  • Hochul says, "There's no sugar coating it. This is all bad" ([03:15]).

• Federal Responsibility & Hochul’s Response:

  • Criticizes Republicans and President Trump for the impasse.
  • Describes leveraging her "bully pulpit" and direct calls to the President to restore lost Homeland Security funding.
  • “I literally called the President on this... You're planning on defunding the police. Right? This is what this is. You're defunding the police... And they did restore it” ([04:21]).

• State vs. Federal Backfill:

  • Hochul: NY can’t possibly fill every gap but will care for the most vulnerable.

2. The Democratic Party’s Image and Future

• Plummeting Favorability:

  • Cites recent WSJ poll: only 33% hold a favorable view of Democrats, the worst in decades ([06:26]).
  • Hochul attributes this to poor messaging:
    • “We talk down to people. I'm from Buffalo. I... talk straight. But I think the Democratic Party decided they needed to be more intellectual about this and have all the answers and just sort of lost people...” ([07:36])

• Moderation vs. Progressivism: The Mamdani Question

  • Discussion centers on Zoran Mamdani, the democratic socialist favored to be NYC’s next mayor, as a microcosm of the party’s internal debate.
  • Hochul positions herself as a moderate with “a very progressive heart,” pro-business yet committed to social equity ([08:38]).
  • “A mayor is supposed to keep the streets safe and clean. Pick up the garbage, kill the rats, get rid of some of the scaffolding...” ([09:00])

3. Policy Tensions with Mamdani

• Affordability, Childcare, and Taxation:

  • Alignment on issues like housing affordability and childcare crisis but diverge on paying for these initiatives.
  • Opposes additional taxes on high earners (“I'm not looking to drive successful people out of our state”—[09:44]).
  • Hochul: “I celebrate success... I want them to know that New York is their home.” ([10:42])

• Budget Realities and Efficiency:

  • Advocates for “finding efficiencies” and streamlining government.
  • Unconventional for a Democrat: considering nuclear energy to tackle NY’s power crisis ([11:35]).
  • “I'm doing things that are a little more non traditional for a democrat. But that's the beauty of being a governor... I have to be pragmatic.” ([12:10])

• Free Buses and Funding Woes:

  • On the proposal for free city buses: "Where are you getting the $700 million?" ([12:58])
  • Warns that higher taxes could drive high-net-worth individuals away, risking revenue necessary for city and state programs.

4. Relationship with President Trump

• Direct Negotiation:

  • “I am a very practical politician... when we need something, I will call and I'll say we have a shared interest. We're both New Yorkers” ([16:44]).
  • Negotiated with Trump to retain $18 billion for major NY infrastructure projects ([17:36]).

• Standing Ground on Values:

  • "If you come after New York, our people or our values, we're going to have a fight" ([18:19]).
  • Cites disagreements especially on immigration.

5. Immigration and Federal Enforcement

• ICE Raids Controversy:

  • Speaks out against aggressive raids, recounting a story about a family arrested in rural NY ([18:47]).
  • “Why are we taking third graders? Why are we taking people working hard in a power bar factory?” ([21:19])
  • Asserts that state can aid federal authorities with actual criminals but condemns targeting of working families and children.

• Political Calculation:

  • Highlights Republican silence in the face of such actions; frames issue as a test of national values ([20:27]).

6. Crime, Federal Presence, and NYPD

• Rejecting Federal Troop Deployment:

  • Pushback on possibility of Trump sending federal troops to NY.
  • Defends NYPD’s record, says, “32,000 members...put their lives on the line every single day. And I think it'd be... insulting...to send in the National Guard” ([22:03]).

• Pragmatic Dialogue:

  • “Tell you what, if I get into trouble, I'll give you a call. And he said, okay” ([22:50]).

7. Personal Political Ambitions

• 2026 & 2028:
  • Confirms she will run for re-election as Governor but rules out a 2028 presidential run:
    • "No, no, no, I do not [think about running for president]. But... We have an incredible bench of Democratic governors. You couldn't go wrong with just about any of them because governors know how to govern" ([23:58]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the D.C. Stalemate:

  • “Donald Trump and the Republicans in Washington have the power to just come to your senses...get government back working in and just do your jobs, for God's sakes.” ([03:16])

• On Party Messaging:

  • “We talk down to people... I think the Democratic Party decided they needed to be more intellectual about this... and just sort of lost people.” ([07:36])

• On Tax Policy:

  • “Are you the only Democrat in the world who says they don't want to raise taxes on the rich?”
    Hochul: “Maybe, but listen. I celebrate success...I want them to know that New York is their home.” ([10:42])

• On Progressive Mayoral Nominee Mamdani:

  • “How you pay for it? We just have a disagreement on how you pay for it.” ([10:00])

• On Balancing Pragmatism and Politics:

  • “That's the beauty of being a governor. I'm not in Washington just flying the flag saying, this is my team...I govern a state that is as diverse as San Francisco and Texas at the same time...I have to be pragmatic and solve problems…” ([12:11])

• On Trump Relationship:

  • “He is a New Yorker. And that gives me an opportunity to remind him of our mutual interests in this city.” ([23:18])

• On Presidential Ambition:

  • “No, no, no, I do not [think about running for president].” ([23:58])

Important Timestamps

• 02:43: Government shutdown’s impact on NY; federal worker and benefits crises.
• 06:26: Sharp drop in Democratic Party favorability; Hochul’s diagnosis.
• 08:38: Party debate—moderation vs. progressivism; views on Mamdani.
• 10:25: Debate over taxing high earners.
• 11:35: Hochul’s approach—efficiencies, unconventional energy policies.
• 12:58: Funding dilemma—free buses, taxation, and budget implications.
• 16:44: Working relationship with Trump—negotiation and conflict.
• 18:47: Story of the ICE raid in rural New York.
• 22:03: Defending state/local control—opposition to federal troops.
• 23:53: 2026 re-election and 2028 presidential speculation.

Tone and Style

The conversation is direct, candid, and occasionally humorous, with Hochul blending policy wonkiness with personal anecdotes and plain-spoken insights. She asserts her role as a pragmatic, center-left leader willing to buck both party orthodoxy and public expectations, repeatedly emphasizing her allegiance to workable solutions and the people of New York, not to any ideological label.

This detailed summary should provide listeners and non-listeners alike with a thorough sense of the episode’s substance, style, and critical moments.