Make Money Not War: Trump’s Plan for Peace in Ukraine

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Journal.
Episode: "Make Money Not War: Trump’s Plan for Peace in Ukraine"
Date: December 5, 2025
Hosts: Jessica Mendoza & Ryan Knutson
Guests/Reporters: Drew Hinshaw, Joe Parkinson

Main Theme

The episode investigates the Trump administration’s novel—and controversial—approach to the war in Ukraine: integrating American business interests into peace negotiations with Russia. Rather than leaving business opportunities for after a peace deal, the administration is actively forging a peace plan in close cooperation with powerful economic players on both sides, hoping that shared profits will serve as the foundation for lasting peace. The episode details secret negotiations, tensions with European allies, and the ethical quandaries of blending geopolitics and corporate ambition.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Nature of Trump’s Peace-Through-Business Plan

• Secret Meeting in Miami:
  • In October, three central figures—Kirill Dmitriev (head of Russia’s sovereign wealth fund), Jared Kushner, and Steve Witkoff (Trump’s longtime friend and real estate mogul)—met to draft a peace plan for Ukraine.
  • These negotiations blurred the lines between peace efforts and major business deals. ([00:05]-[01:08])
• Plan Objectives:
  • Not just peace, but profit: The group sought to craft an agreement palatable to Russia, while paving the way for Russia’s $2 trillion economy to rejoin the global market—specifically, by lifting sanctions in tandem with the peace process. ([01:08])
  • Business as Diplomacy: As Joe Parkinson summarizes:

    "They're fusing this idea that business should not be something which follows a peace deal, but something which should be integrated into the negotiation itself." ([01:34])

2. The Cast and Their Connections

• Steve Witkoff: Trump’s friend and golfing partner, not a traditional diplomat, but Russia’s preferred interlocutor over the originally appointed US general. ([04:33]-[05:00])
  • “Putin sits with him for hours, he flies home with an American prisoner. It’s a real moment where Russia is saying, hey, if you work with us, we can do things together.” — Drew Hinshaw ([05:00])
• Kirill Dmitriev:
  • A Harvard/Stanford-educated Russian banker, sanctioned as the head of Russia’s sovereign fund but granted special entry for these talks. ([05:43]-[06:09])
• Network of Businessmen: Far from the McDonald’s era of American expansion, now a smaller, more exclusive group—many with personal ties to Trump and big stakes in energy projects—are angling for opportunities, should sanctions lift.
  • E.g., Gentry Beech, investor with ties to Trump Jr.; Exxon Mobil pursuing secret meetings with Rosneft. ([08:11]-[09:16])

3. Business Opportunities at the Core

• Russian Energy and Rare Earths as Bargaining Chips:

  “The Trump administration see(s)…key to the US economy, but also key to the next stage of global growth is…energy in the first instance, and the second is minerals in the form particularly of rare earths.”
  — Joe Parkinson ([06:38])

• Building Trust Through Deals:

  “We can take this relationship of business trust and move it to a relationship of political trust, of solving this geopolitical problem of Ukraine, where you’ve got so many people dying every day.”
  — Drew Hinshaw, paraphrasing Dmitriev ([07:29])

4. European Allies Alienated

• Limited Communication with Europe, None with Ukraine:

  • While Witkoff maintains a close channel with Dmitriev, Europeans are largely sidelined and frustrated by lack of access and consultation—Witkoff refuses to use secure lines preferred by European counterparts. ([12:30])

• Anchorage Summit: Turning Point:

  • Trump invited Putin to Anchorage; business opportunities were a notable part of the summit agenda, alongside frontline issues.
  • European leaders scramble to have their voice heard as U.S. pivoted away from old alliance norms. ([13:03]-[14:31])

• European Pushback after Plan Leak:

  • The leaked 28-point Miami plan included major Russian demands: limiting Ukraine’s military, blocking NATO path, ceding yet-unconquered territory to Russia.
  • Outcry from Europe; the Polish PM summarized: “We know this is not about peace. It’s about business.” ([15:56])

5. Fundamental Tensions & Flawed Premises

• Historical Lessons Ignored?
  • The “peace through business” idea was not new—Europe had long tried the same approach, with little effect on Russian aggression.

    “…If anything, business with Russia in the European case constrained European foreign policy much more than it constrained Russian foreign policy.”
    — Drew Hinshaw ([17:31])

• America’s Bet
  • U.S. officials hope that, as America is “different,” Putin may seek friendship, but some see the overtures as a method for Moscow to divide the West and buy time for more battlefield gains.

    “A question for history will be whether Putin has been entertaining this business as peace approach because he sees it as a route to end the war, or is this a way just to distract the US and pacify the Trump administration while Russia continues to throw more young men into the battlefields of Ukraine…”
    — Drew Hinshaw ([18:45])

• Straining Western Alliances
  • European allies are forced to question if the U.S. remains a true partner.

    “European allies are genuinely asking themselves if they are still in an alliance with the United States.”
    — Drew Hinshaw ([16:32])

6. Peace Talks Deadlocked

• Despite intense negotiations, Putin rejects proposed changes to the plan that would better represent Ukraine’s interests; no deal reached. ([17:02])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "They're fusing this idea that business should not be something which follows a peace deal, but something which should be integrated into the negotiation itself."
  — Joe Parkinson ([01:34])
• "The Trump administration is approaching this peace process like a chapter out of Art of the Deal. The thinking is we're going to come in there, we're going to settle this war and make sure that American companies benefit."
  — Drew Hinshaw ([02:02])
• "If you work with us, we can do things together."
  — Drew Hinshaw, quoting Russia’s message to Witkoff ([05:00])
• "We know this is not about peace. It's about business."
  — Polish Prime Minister (summarized by Drew Hinshaw) ([15:56])
• "European allies are genuinely asking themselves if they are still in an alliance with the United States."
  — Drew Hinshaw ([16:32])
• "If anything, business with Russia in the European case constrained European foreign policy much more than it constrained Russian foreign policy."
  — Drew Hinshaw ([17:31])
• "A question for history will be whether Putin has been entertaining this business as peace approach because he sees it as a route to end the war, or is this a way just to distract the US and pacify the Trump administration..."
  — Drew Hinshaw ([18:45])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:05-01:08: Secret businessmen meeting in Miami—plan origins and motivations.
• 02:02-02:53: Trump administration’s "Art of the Deal" approach; business enmeshment as strategy.
• 04:28-05:43: Profiles of Witkoff and his unique back channel with Russia.
• 06:33-07:29: Dmitriev’s U.S. visit; Russia offers energy/mineral deals.
• 08:11-09:59: Who’s lining up for Russian business? Trump donors, Exxon, and others.
• 12:11-12:58: Witkoff's private diplomacy, European frustration.
• 13:03-14:42: The Anchorage summit and aftermath; Europe forced to plead case directly to Trump.
• 15:03-15:56: The Miami plan leaks—Europe objects, Ukraine’s interests threatened.
• 16:32-17:02: Strains in U.S.-European relations over peace approach.
• 17:31-18:27: Lessons from Europe’s failed business-first strategy.
• 18:45-19:12: Is Putin buying time or embracing peace?

---

Conclusion

This episode exposes the radical reimagining of American diplomacy under the Trump administration: blending geopolitical negotiation with profit-driven business deals and risking traditional alliances in the process. While the U.S. hopes “making money, not war” can bring peace, allies fear it rewards aggression and divides the West. As negotiations stall and Putin rejects compromise, the true legacy of this approach—and who it ultimately benefits—remains uncertain.

Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

Back in October, at a beautiful waterfront home in Florida, three men quietly came together to try and end a war.

[Drew Hinshaw]

It's three businessmen in a Miami beach condo, hunched over a laptop, redrawing European borders, effectively trying to solve a geopolitical problem.

The key protagonists were Kirill Dmitriev, the head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund, as well as Jared Kushner, the President's son in law, and Steve Witkoff, a real estate tycoon that the President has known since the 80s, who is now Washington's emissary to Moscow.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Effectively.

These men were trying to draft a plan to end the long and deadly conflict between Russia and Ukraine, a plan that would become the basis of lengthy peace talks that took place this week. But our colleague Drew Hinshaw says when these businessmen met in Miami, peace wasn't the only thing they were negotiating. That's according to people familiar with the talks.

[Drew Hinshaw]

They're not only drafting a peace plan, that in their mind is a way to end the war in Ukraine on terms Russia can accept. They're also looking at how do we bring in Russia's $2 trillion economy in from the cold, lowering down sanctions as part of a peace process?

[Joe Parkinson]

This is highly unorthodox and highly controversial.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's our colleague Joe Parkinson, who reports with Drew.

[Joe Parkinson]

They're fusing this idea that business should not be something which follows a peace deal, but something which should be integrated into the negotiation itself.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Over the past few months, Joe and Drew, along with a team of Wall Street Journal reporters, have been investigating the Trump administration's approach to negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. And what they found was a dramatic shift in U.S. diplomatic strategy, particularly when it comes to relations with the Kremlin.

[Drew Hinshaw]

We spoke to dozens of officials over months. We spoke to diplomats. We spoke to former and current intelligence officers from the U.S. russia, Europe. We spoke to lobbyists who are representing the businesses that want to step into a post peace Russia. And the picture that they paint is really a remarkable story of business leaders working outside the traditional lines of diplomacy to try and cement a peace agreement with business deals. The Trump administration is approaching this peace process like a chapter out of Art of the Deal. The thinking is we're going to come in there, we're going to settle this war and make sure that American companies benefit.

[Joe Parkinson]

They see the enmeshment of business interests as a way of securing peace, a way of people making money together rather than making war.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. Friday, December 5th.

Coming up on the show, inside the us's new russia strategy peace through business.

[U.S. Bank Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by U.S. bank with U.S. bank business essentials, you get more than just a bank. You get a dedicated partner that provides you a powerful combo of checking and card payment processing with quick access to the money you've earned, proving that there's nothing as powerful as the power of us. Visit usbank.com today to learn more. Member FDIC Copyright 2025 US bank.

[Uniswap Wallet Announcer]

The.

Uniswap Wallet makes it easier and safer to own and use crypto. Created by pioneers of the crypto economy, the Uniswap protocol has powered over $3 trillion in trading volume and it's trusted by tens of millions worldwide. With the Uniswap Wallet, you can discover, swap and manage your crypto all from your phone. Buy your first crypto assets in just a few taps, and start exploring the freedom of decentralized finance with uniswap. Tap the banner to get.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Drew, can you talk to me about how this new diplomatic strategy came to be?

[Drew Hinshaw]

The core of these meetings and of this entire peace process has been a two man relationship between Steve Witkoff and Kirill Dmitriev. The Russians from the very beginning, wanted to deal with Witkoff.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Witkoff, Trump's billionaire friend and golfing partner, wasn't the most obvious choice. The President had originally appointed a former lieutenant general to lead the talks with Russia, but the Russians didn't want to work with him.

[Drew Hinshaw]

So in February, they reached out and hosted Steve Witkoff in the Kremlin. Putin sits with him for hours, he flies home with an American prisoner. It's a real moment where Russia is saying, hey, if you work with us, we can do things together. At that moment, Wyckoff starts to take over the Russia portfolio.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Following that meeting, Witkoff, whose official title is Special Envoy to the Middle east, became increasingly involved in negotiations with Russia. Witkoff's counterpart, Kirill Dmitriev, is a Russian investment banker with degrees from Harvard and Stanford. Like Wytkoff, Dmitriev isn't part of the Foreign Service establishment, but the two spoke the same business.

Not long after Witkoff's office requested to meet with Dmitriev in Washington.

[Drew Hinshaw]

Now, the thing about Dmitriev is he's under sanctions. The Treasury Department sanctioned him in 2022 for leading Russia's sovereign wealth fund, which the treasury called a slush fund for Vladimir Putin. This guy's effectively Persona non grata in America, and if he's going to visit, the Treasury Department has to lift sanctions on him.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Effectively at first, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant had questions about the unique request. But the president had told Wyckoff he wanted the war to end, and so the administration decided that it was worth the risk.

[Drew Hinshaw]

And then from there, Dmitriev comes to the US In April, and he's presenting a fantastic range of opportunities, as he would put it, for US Companies.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What kind of opportunities are we talking about here? Joe, do you want to take this one?

[Joe Parkinson]

Russia, of course, is is known across the world for its massive oil and natural gas and mineral wealth. And two things I think that the Trump administration see as key to the US Economy, but also key to the next stage of global growth is, of course, energy in the first instance, and the second is minerals in the form particularly of rare earths. I think Dmitriev clearly understood that. And I think because he spoke both Wyckoff and the Trump administration language of business in a way that other Putin officials didn't, he was able to lay out a buffet of options for how Russia's energy might begin to flow back into Europe, particularly, and other world markets. And it seems like that pitch resonated from the beginning.

[Drew Hinshaw]

Dimitriev even says that Russia and the United States, who competed to get to the moon this time we can cooperate together and help Elon Musk reach Mars. And I think from Dmitriev's perspective, what he told us is we can take this relationship of business trust and move it to a relationship of political trust, of solving this geopolitical problem of Ukraine, where you've got so many people dying every day.

[Jessica Mendoza]

As Wytkov and Dmitriev continue to meet, business leaders in both the US And Russia, many of whom had ties to Trump and Putin, were taking note, and they were quietly positioning their companies to profit if a peace deal came through.

[Drew Hinshaw]

This is not the 1990s where McDonald's can't wait to get into Moscow. There's a really relatively small pool of people who are looking very closely at some pretty huge assets in the energy world. And a lot of them are close to the Trump family or are big Trump donors. A really good example is you have Gentry Beech.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Gentry Beech is an investor from Texas. He was also a groomsman at Donald Trump Jr's wedding, and he was a donor to President Trump's campaign.

Beach has been in talks to acquire a stake in a Russian Arctic gas project with a company called novatek.

[Drew Hinshaw]

Novatek is partly owned by a Russian billionaire who's very, very close to Putin. And that deal is dependent on the US And UK Removing sanctions on it, according to drafts of contracts that the Journal reviewed. That's the kind of business that's interested in going back into Russia right now.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In a statement, beach said that partnering with novatech would, quote, strongly benefit any company committed to advancing American energy leadership. Trump Jr. Has told people he isn't.

[Joe Parkinson]

Doing business with beach, but you're seeing different categories. So on the one hand you've got these individuals that are definitely not household names. Gentry beach, who has business interests in a lot of sectors. On the other hand, you have some of the biggest, biggest names in corporate America. Exxon Mobil, our Journal colleagues revealed earlier this year had had secret meetings with Rosneft, which is the biggest Russian state oil and gas company. The opportunity is so potentially lucrative that I think these companies are obviously still interested in seeing what kind of options are available.

Now. This is entirely a play that is dependent on there being a peace deal at the moment. These assets don't make a huge amount of financial sense for the potential buyers. But if there was to be a peace deal, Europe still needs energy, Russia can provide the cheapest energy, and if American companies were somehow in the middle, it could be a bonanza.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Frankly, there's no evidence that Witkoff or the White House have been briefed on these companies efforts or that they're coordinating them. A person familiar with Witkoff's thinking said Wycoff is confident that any settlement with Russia would benefit America broadly, not just a handful of investors.

[Drew Hinshaw]

According to our reporting, these conversations are happening regardless of the extent that the Trump administration knows about them. The Trump administration sees it as well. That's capitalism. Go forth and make money. We'll make the peace. You make the money.

[Jessica Mendoza]

But this peace through business approach hasn't been an easy sell to America's traditional allies.

That's next.

[Rumchata Announcer]

Toast the holidays in a new way and raise a glass of Rumchata, a delicious creamy blend of horchata with rum. Enjoy it over ice or in your coffee. Rumchata. Your holiday cocktails just got sweeter tap or click the banner for more drink responsibly. Caribbean rum with real dairy cream. Natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands, Pojoaaukee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved.

[Uniswap Wallet Announcer]

Coca Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers. Risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.

[Jessica Mendoza]

As spring turned into summer, Dmitriev and Wytkoff's relationship grew. Through one on one conversations. They charted their own course to end the Russia Ukraine conflict. Wytkoff went to Moscow multiple times. Meanwhile, the US's European allies struggled to get a meeting with Wytkoff. And Wytkoff never once visited Ukraine.

[Drew Hinshaw]

It's become an issue for the Europeans. There was a group of European heads of state who wanted to talk to Witkoff and were trying to get him to use the kind of fixed line that they used to conduct sensitive diplomatic conversations. Witkoff demurred. He didn't want to use that line. He traveled too much to use it. So instead he talks regularly with Dmitriev by phone about what are really increasingly ambitious proposals to make peace and have the US and Russia go into business together.

[Joe Parkinson]

One place where we saw Europe really having to scramble was after Alaska.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Back in August, Trump invited Putin to a summit in Anchorage. It was a turning point in U. S. Russia relationship. Putin hadn't stepped foot on American soil in a decade.

[Joe Parkinson]

Wykoff and Dimitriv had believed that the time was right for a bilateral summit, had believed that there was a landing space where Putin and Trump could agree something in Alaska. And in Alaska, what our reporting found is that there was conversation about some of these shared business interests and shared business opportunities. It wasn't just a conversation about what was happening on the front line. Ultimately, Putin wasn't ready to do a deal and there wasn't a deal that the Ukrainians would have accepted. And that summit ended early.

[Drew Hinshaw]

There were many, many points that we agreed on. Most of them, I would say a couple of big ones that we haven't quite got there, but we've made some headway.

[Joe Parkinson]

What the Europeans had to do after that summit was quickly try to reach out to Trump himself, beyond Wyckoff, in order to be able to convince him of their talking points. And you'll remember that spectacle of the European leaders sat in the Oval Office facing Trump as they tried to argue their case.

[European Leader (possibly Olaf Scholz or Emmanuel Macron)]

We had a fantastic NATO summit together as the two largest and biggest economies in the world. We had the largest trade deal ever.

[Joe Parkinson]

That was one moment where things seemed to move back a little bit more towards the place where the Europeans and the Ukrainians were comfortable.

[European Leader (possibly Olaf Scholz or Emmanuel Macron)]

Now we are here to work together with you on a just and lasting peace for Ukraine. Stop the killing. This is really our common interest. Stop the killing.

[Joe Parkinson]

But what we learned was that in the background, Witkoff and Dmitriev were still in touch, were talking a lot, and ultimately they had obviously got to a point at which they were ready to meet in Miami. And the 28 point plan was what came of that meeting.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The plan drawn up in Miami was meant to stay under wraps, but a month later, the plan leaked and it.

[Drew Hinshaw]

Creates immediate protests from Europe. Leaders in Europe are saying, hey, this reflects mostly Russian talking points and it just completely bulldozes through nearly all of Ukraine's red lines. This 28 point plan, which was leaked, it was a Russian plan. It was everything that Putin has been asking for.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Ukraine would have to give up land and Russia make major gains in a.

[Drew Hinshaw]

Leaked peace proposal saying that Europe had not been consulted in this at all and that any peace plan needs the involvement of Ukraine and Europe.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The leaked plan called for limiting the size of Ukraine's military and blocking the country's path to joining NATO. It also called for the surrendering of Ukrainian land to Russia that Russia hadn't conquered yet. Ukraine's European allies said these provisions not only rewarded Moscow for its invasion, but they also weakened Ukraine's efforts to return its country to what it was before Russia attacked.

[Drew Hinshaw]

The Polish prime minister looked at this plan and on a conference call with other European leaders offered his own pithy summary of what he thought. He said, we know this is not about peace. It's about business.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Following the leak, Trump administration officials tried to assure Ukraine and Europe that the plan wasn't set in stone.

[Drew Hinshaw]

European allies aren't reassured. They're worried that Russia, after violently redrawing borders, is going to get rewarded with commercial opportunities.

[Jessica Mendoza]

How big of an issue is this for U. S. Europe relations?

[Drew Hinshaw]

This is a major moment of strain between the US And Europe. European allies are genuinely asking themselves if they are still in an alliance with the United States. That's where we land. And it's an extraordinary moment to see the US Kind of floating in between Europe and Russia when it was historically the principal bedrock member of the Western alliance trying to contain Russia.

[Jessica Mendoza]

This week, in an effort to revise the plan to get both Ukraine and Russia on board, peace talks took place. Meetings were held between the US And Ukraine and the US And Russia. European leaders also spoke with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. After hours of discussion, Putin rejected proposed changes to the peace plan that would better represent Ukraine's interests. No deal has been reached. What does it tell you that the U.S. s new business first approach hasn't worked yet?

[Drew Hinshaw]

What I find fascinating is the idea that the US Is bringing to the table here. What if we just made money with Russia? Then there would never be a reason to go to war. That's not a new one. Joe and I have been in Europe for quite a while. You used to hear that same thing from the German government under Angela Merkel, used to hear that from European leaders. That was the European consensus for decades, really, after the Cold War was, let's embrace Russia as a business partner. If we're buying their gas and if our companies are selling things to their middle class, then that will constrain Putin. That hasn't been the case at all. While that was happening, Putin invaded Georgia, he invaded the Crimea peninsula, he kind of helped whip up the war in eastern Ukraine, and then finally he invaded in 2022. If anything, business with Russia in the European case constrained European foreign policy much more than it constrained Russian foreign policy.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Is there anything to indicate that it might be different because it's America and not Europe?

[Drew Hinshaw]

I think that's the administration's bet, is that why wouldn't Putin want to have a good relationship with America? We'll see. Putin has been talking about Ukraine for 30 years. This is his great project.

A question for history will be whether Putin has been entertaining this business as peace approach because he sees it as a route to end the war, or is this a way just to distract the US and pacify the Trump administration while Russia continues to throw more young men into the battlefields of Ukraine to prolong a conflict that Putin feels it is his place in history to slowly, inevitably win.

[Joe Parkinson]

These negotiations really are never what they seem. There's always a hidden layer underneath. And there's such a paradox at the heart of this here, because Putin for a long time clearly saw America as his greatest enemy. It's the country on which Russia tends to define its foreign policy and define a lot of its objectives again. And yet now I think Putin can see a generational opportunity not just to realign Russia, but to potentially divide the old Western alliance, to divide America from Europe. Maybe it really will be transformational.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's all for today. Friday, December 5th. Additional reporting in this episode by Benoit Faucon, Rebecca Ballhaus and Thomas Grove. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. The show is made by Kathryn Brewer, Pia Gidkari, Isabella Japal, Sophie Codner, Ryan Knudsen, Matt Kwong, Colin McNulty, Annie Menoff, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Allen Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers, Pier Singhi, Jeevika Verma, Lisa Wang, Catherine Whalen, Tatiana Zamis and me, Jessica Mendoza. This is our senior producer Rachel Humphrey's last week with us. Rachel, we're so grateful for what you brought to the show. Good luck and we'll miss you very much. Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak and Peter Leonard, with help this week from Sam Baer. Our theme music is by so Wiley. Additional music this week from Peter Leonard, Billy Libby, Bobby Lord, Emma Munger, Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak and Blue Dot sessions. Fact checking this week by Mary Mathis.

Thanks for listening. See you on Monday.