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Jessica Mendoza (4:24)

Where are you right now, Olivia?

Olivia Beavers (4:27)

I am in a very small booth that is near the House Periodical Gallery, which is essentially where all the when.

Jessica Mendoza (4:34)

We spoke yesterday, my colleague Olivia was on Capitol hill at the U.S. house of Representatives.

Olivia Beavers (4:39)

And it's supposed to be soundproof, but you know, you might hear a few reporters yelling every now and then.

Jessica Mendoza (4:45)

We'll see. Olivia has covered Marjorie Taylor Greene since 2020. That's when Greene was elected to represent Georgia's 14th congressional district.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (4:54)

I'm Marjorie Greene, Republican for Congress. Save America, Stop Socialism.

Olivia Beavers (5:01)

She seemed just kind of feisty and fiery and so she came in with a series of controversial statements that were following her pre even being sworn in. Jewish space lasers.

T-Mobile Advertiser (5:16)

Greene theorized a laser beam from space.

Jessica Mendoza (5:20)

Started the deadly 2018 California wildfire. Not just any laser beam from space, but one controlled by wealthy Jewish bankers.

Olivia Beavers (5:29)

She called Speaker Pelosi a traitor.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (5:32)

We're going straight to Nancy Pelosi's office and we are delivering the petition to let Nancy Pelosi know that Americans want her impeached for crimes of treason. So this is going to be a lot of fun.

Olivia Beavers (5:44)

She was combative with other Republicans.

Indeed Advertiser (5:46)

Two of the most controversial Republicans in Congress had a profane exchange on the House floor today. The feud was between Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor.

Olivia Beavers (5:55)

Greene and Lauren Boebert. It was caught on camera. You see can you can see them chatting there.

Jessica Mendoza (6:01)

Greene was also all in for Donald Trump after the January 6 attack on the Capitol. She became one of Trump's staunchest defenders.

Olivia Beavers (6:10)

There were a lot of Republicans who said, Donald Trump is politically dead. He will not be able to revive his career. He's not coming back. This is the end of it. But there were people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who did not change in terms of their support from President Trump and kept on talking about him.

Jessica Mendoza (6:27)

How did she become a MAGA star?

Olivia Beavers (6:29)

You know, got a few different ingredients in there. I think. One was just being the voice, always defending President Trump. Another was she was unapologetically controversial at the time. And, you know, she. She sort of had this kind of loyal populist following.

Jessica Mendoza (6:50)

And Trump took notice.

Donald Trump (6:52)

This one, I never, ever want to have her as my enemy. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Where is she? She is so unbelievable.

Jessica Mendoza (7:02)

But then in the spring of this year, her relationship with President Trump started to change. Marjorie Taylor Greene was potentially interested in running for a U.S. senate seat in Georgia against Democrat Jon Ossoff. Trouble was, according to the Journal's reporting, Trump didn't love the idea. In May, Olivia and her colleague Josh Dawsey reported that Trump saw polling that showed Greene trailing Ossoff by double digits.

Olivia Beavers (7:30)

The President texted her the polling. He had presented her with polling that suggested that she would lose. And, you know, sources told my colleague that he was surprised by how poor the polling suggested she might fare if she challenged him.

Jessica Mendoza (7:46)

Huh.

Olivia Beavers (7:47)

He was not saying directly, don't run. But the polling from Trump's political team was aimed at dissuading her from doing it.

Jessica Mendoza (7:54)

Greene said on social media at the time that she wouldn't be running for Senate. She also criticized Trump's political consultants. A White House spokeswoman declined to comment.

Olivia Beavers (8:03)

So the President has claimed that after that moment, their relationship started to be different. Marjorie Taylor Greene will tell you something completely different than what the White House will tell you.

Jessica Mendoza (8:15)

What would she say the issue is?

Olivia Beavers (8:17)

She would argue that it's the Epstein vote. She says that he is trying to make an example of her.

Jessica Mendoza (8:24)

Greene has long supported the full release of what's known as the Epstein files. These are files collected by law enforcement and the government during the investigation into Epstein. Why is this such an important issue for Green, the Epstein files?

Olivia Beavers (8:39)

Well, she says she wants transparency for the victims for more information coming out. It was long before President Trump came in for a second term. The Epstein files had been kind of just growing into this base movement on the right, and they were pushing for the release. It was sort of, in their minds, a conspiracy theory that additional information had not been released.

Jessica Mendoza (9:04)

This summer, the Justice Department said it wouldn't release any more files. The Wall Street Journal reported that President Trump's name appears in the documents. Though being mentioned in the files is not an indication of wrongdoing. Trump has said he cut off ties with Epstein long before Epstein was first arrested in 2006. He has denied any knowledge of sexual abuse by Epstein. The president also told reporters this week he has, quote, nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein. After the Justice Department's decision, Green and three other Republicans joined with Democrats to force a vote on the release by signing something called a discharge petition.

Olivia Beavers (9:42)

One was Thomas Massie of Kentucky, who President Trump has been going after for a long time. But the other two are Congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina and Congresswoman Lauren Boebert of Colorado. And President Trump has not gone after them. So Marjorie Taylor Greene is the only congresswoman that seems to have had a fallout that she's claiming is related to the Epstein files.

Jessica Mendoza (10:06)

The long August congressional recession followed by the government shutdown delayed things for a while, but last week the fight over the Epstein files finally came to a head and it became a test of power inside the MAGA movement. That's next.

Indeed Advertiser (10:31)

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Jessica Mendoza (12:07)

Marjorie Taylor Greene has always talked a lot about the Jeffrey Epstein files, but recently she's also started talking about other issues she disagrees with the President on.

Olivia Beavers (12:18)

You started seeing her splitting from President Trump quite a bit more and and she's reaching this sort of point where she's starting to say, I don't agree with President Trump on his policies internationally and his involvement overseas, foreign aid, foreign wars. She thinks that affordability is a problem in this country. She's flooding with him on immigration and H1B visas. She's really started to sort of separate herself from the person that was behind the MAGA movement and claiming that she is still very much an America first person, even if she's not necessarily tethered to what President Trump is doing.

Jessica Mendoza (12:55)

Greene started appearing on shows widely considered friendly to liberals.

Olivia Beavers (13:00)

She was on the View recently and she received praise from some of the co hosts who are typically pretty hard on their Republican guests.

Indeed Advertiser (13:09)

I feel like I'm sitting next to a completely different Marjorie Taylor Greene. Why the change? Why the evolution?

Marjorie Taylor Greene (13:16)

Well, Sonny, it's like you've gone so right.

Jessica Mendoza (13:19)

It's like you're on the left now on the show. One of the hosts asked Greene about her previous comment about so called Jewish space lasers. Greene responded, quote, that's been rebuffed.

Olivia Beavers (13:31)

The tone has shifted. And she is sticking more to a domestic policy messaging and apologizing for her past rhetoric.

Marjorie Taylor Greene (13:41)

I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country.

Olivia Beavers (13:52)

And even praising Speaker Pelosi. That sent shockwaves through the Capitol community.

Jessica Mendoza (14:00)

Greene also started to suggest that Trump had lost his way on domestic policy. In one pointed tweet, she wrote she would pray for Trump to, quote, return to his original MAGA promises. Trump hasn't taken her criticism quietly.

Donald Trump (14:14)

I don't know what happened to Marjorie. She's a nice woman, but I don't know what happened. She's lost her way, I think.

Jessica Mendoza (14:19)

But he even has a new nickname for her, Marjorie Trader Greene.

Olivia Beavers (14:24)

It's the political breakup heard round the world. President Trump says he is withdrawing his endorsement for one of his most steadfast backers in Congress.

SAP Advertiser (14:32)

Trump accusing Greene of betraying the entire Republican Party, calling her a ranting lunatic and a traitor.

Jessica Mendoza (14:40)

Greene claims she received death threats because of Trump's verbal attacks. When asked about her claim that her life was in danger, Trump said, I.

Donald Trump (14:48)

Don'T think her life is in danger. I don't think, frankly, I don't think anybody cares about her.

Jessica Mendoza (14:54)

Meanwhile, the Epstein story stayed in the news. When Congress came back into session after the shutdown, a few things happened. First, House lawmakers released a trove of Epstein's emails, which had been handed over to them by Epstein's estate. Trump's name appears multiple times. After the emails were released, Trump took to social media and called the Epstein story a hoax and blamed it on the Democrats. At the same time, the lawmakers from both parties who wanted the Justice Department to release the Epstein files gathered enough signatures for the discharge petition. It became clear that the vote was going to happen. That's when Trump said he would now support the release of the Epstein files and. And indicated he would sign the bill if it passed. Which brings us to yesterday's almost unanimous House and Senate votes to release the files. And so what are in those files?

Olivia Beavers (15:47)

Well, I think that's sort of a question. I don't know if we know totally what still exists. You know, the people who are adamantly pushing for its release feel like there weren't enough flight or travel logs as related to Epstein that were released. More investigative materials or certain communications regarding Epstein.

Jessica Mendoza (16:05)

Right. And that is what the vote yesterday was about.

Indeed Advertiser (16:08)

Yes.

Jessica Mendoza (16:10)

The final bill to release the Epstein files was supported overwhelmingly by Republicans and Democrats. So, as a political reporter, Olivia, what does this whole saga tell you?

Olivia Beavers (16:21)

We're trying to pay attention to whether there is a shift from Republicans and that they're willing to buck the president. This one's a little bit harder to kind of claim that, yes, they are bucking the president, but it was also because they had all just been so on the record, all of these Republicans saying they wanted something. So I don't know if you can claim this as a strong turning point, because the party is still very loyal, but it is definitely one of those examples to look at if you're starting to look for a broader pattern of whether the party is willing to start moving away from someone that had almost total control over Republicans in this administration.

Jessica Mendoza (17:04)

As for Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's continued to make the Epstein files a defining issue for her. She's called for the release of all the files and the names mentioned in them. And how is her feud with Trump and this change in the way that Marjorie Taylor Greene has been talking, how is that being perceived?

Olivia Beavers (17:23)

It depends who you ask. So there are some who think that Marjorie Taylor Greene's change is a sign of her maturing and a sign that she's seen the writing on the wall. She wants to make herself more appealing to a broader mass of voters, potentially position herself for a higher office down the line. But then there's the president's allies. You know, they're attacking her for being selfish, for wanting attention, for being a showgirl, you know, Congressman Ryan Zinke said, said she was a rising star who got too close to the sun and thinks that she made a miscalculation, a political miscalculation.

Jessica Mendoza (18:02)

What does this tell you about the future of the MAGA movement and the Republican Party?

Olivia Beavers (18:07)

I think one thing that we're waiting to still play out is Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to be engaging with this question of whether there is room for a new standard bearer, whether the movement, the mega movement, is tethered directly to President Trump, who is the one who helped birth it, or if it's ready for a new person to grab the torch and run with the basis the message of focusing just on America and its voters. And I think that it sort of raises a question too about whether there's room for both of them in the MAGA movement.

Jessica Mendoza (18:57)

That's all for today. Wednesday, November 19 the Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode from Alex Leary. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.