Mexico's New Cocaine Kingpin is Cashing In

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal – Mexico's New Cocaine Kingpin Is Cashing In

Date: October 15, 2025
Hosts: Ryan Knutson, Jessica Mendoza
Produced by: The Wall Street Journal & Spotify Studios

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Overview

This gripping episode delves deep into the ascension of Nemesio Oseguera, alias “El Mencho,” who is now considered the world’s most powerful cocaine kingpin. The conversation traces his rise from a poor avocado farmer to the most feared drug lord in Mexico, explores the fallout from the Sinaloa cartel’s collapse, and analyzes how supply, demand, and U.S. policy are colliding to reshape the underworld—and the very fabric of Mexican society.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who is El Mencho? (00:05 - 02:38)

• Inaccessible and Heavily Guarded:
  • El Mencho is “known for very, very strict security measures,” hiding with “five security rings, each ring with a couple of hundreds of gunmen,” and surrounded by minefields in Jalisco. (Drug Trade Expert, 00:13)
  • “He sounds extremely heavily guarded and extremely hard to get to.” (Host, 00:55)
• Ruthless and Ambitious:
  • “I think he’s rather ruthless… his main quality. He’s ruthless, he’s aggressive, and he’s been very ambitious.” (Drug Trade Expert, 02:14)
  • Active since the 80s, rising in a “kill-or-be-killed environment.”

2. The Explosion of the Cocaine Trade (01:24 - 01:55)

• Cocaine’s Resurgence:
  • Western U.S. cocaine consumption is up “by 154% since 2019.” (Ryan Knudsen, 01:41)
  • “The cocaine trade has… exploded and it has expanded enormously in the last couple of years. The U.S. has rediscovered cocaine.” (Drug Trade Expert, 01:24)

3. El Mencho’s Background: From Cop to Cartel Leader (03:14 - 04:01)

• Grew up poor in Michoacan, once a “Mexican cop,” immigrated to California, where he served time for heroin dealing before being deported and joining the cartel.

4. Violence and the Rise of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel (CJNG) (04:01 - 04:22)

• Known for extreme violence, including “shooting down a Mexican army helicopter” and killing state police.
• “He’s a very good killer. He is a gunman and an enforcer and a killer. He’s known for his violence.” (Drug Trade Expert, 03:44)
• CJNG is open about “confronting state authority,” accelerating its rise to power.

5. The Sinaloa Cartel Fractures: El Chapo’s Downfall (04:22 – 06:55)

• Who is El Chapo?
  • “The most well known, the most famous, the most notorious drug trafficker in modern Mexican history.” (Drug Trade Expert, 04:56)
• El Chapo’s capture (2015), spectacular tunnel escape, re-capture and extradition to the U.S. His arrest destabilizes the Sinaloa cartel.
• Power splits: “El Chapo turns over his business empire… to his four kids. They’re known as the Chapitos.” (Drug Trade Expert, 05:36)

6. Sinaloa’s Civil War (06:55 - 08:42)

• Sinaloa, always a loose alliance of powerful families, fractures after El Chapo’s sons attempt to betray cartel patriarch El Mayo Zambada by luring him into a U.S. sting.
• The betrayal incites outright war: “For the last year, it’s been non stop killing every day. There's been a total of about 2,000 people have been killed. Another 2,000 have been disappeared...” (Drug Trade Expert, 08:42)

7. The Opportunity for El Mencho (09:14 - 10:46)

• Pivotal Alliance:
  • The embattled Chapitos, now losing the civil war, reach out to El Mencho for “guns, money and men” in exchange for “unlimited access” to Sinaloa’s prized drug tunnels. (09:28–09:41)
  • “The deal is that… El Mencho, will be able to use all these tunnels… to send drugs into the United States without... a fee.” (Drug Trade Expert, 09:41)
• Huge Victory:
  • “People consider it a big deal because it makes getting all these drugs into the United States easier and cheaper for the Jalisco organization.” (Drug Trade Expert, 10:25)

8. Market Split and Policy Impact (10:46 - 12:41)

• Drug Market Realignment:
  • “The Chapitos… would take [the fentanyl] market and El Mencho would take cocaine.” (Ryan Knudsen, 10:46)
  • U.S. fentanyl crackdown under President Trump (“Mexico has to dismantle these cartels and stop the fentanyl trade or the US will put all kinds of economic pressures on it”), severely disrupts Sinaloa’s fentanyl business. (Drug Trade Expert, 11:11)
• Cocaine’s Boom:
  • Simultaneously, “There’s been a boom in cocaine production in Colombia... The prices have fallen in the US for cocaine by half from what they used to be five years ago.” (Drug Trade Expert, 12:24)

9. Jalisco Becomes a Parallel Government (13:14 - 13:55)

• Diversified Revenue Streams:
  • The CJNG “acts as a parallel government,” taxing local businesses and products, running construction and infrastructure projects, and profiting from fuel smuggling.

10. El Mencho’s Notoriety & Narco Culture (14:01 - 15:49)

• Public Perception:
  • “Well, he has, on the one hand, a reputation for ruthlessness, and so they fear him. But on the other side… they are glad to be getting… food, medicine, the bands for the town fiesta he pays for.” (Drug Trade Expert, 14:01)
• Narco Ballads:
  • Songs called "narco ballads" celebrate El Mencho.
    • Drug Trade Expert recites:
      “Yo soy Mencho. Soy aquel que le peleo al gobierno y que le sobran huevos...”
      • Translation: “I am Mencho. I am he who fights the government. I am he who has balls aplenty… Now the soldiers tremble when they look at my men. They don’t get close. I like cockfights. I like horse races.” (14:59–15:49)

11. The Game of “Whack-a-Mole” in the Drug War (15:49 - 17:47)

• Most Wanted:
  • El Mencho is now one of Mexico’s most wanted fugitives; the State Department offers up to $15 million for information.
• Cycle of Cartel Power:
  • “One big guy is taken down, and then he’s replaced by another guy… after a lot of violence…” (Drug Trade Expert, 16:46)
  • “I think the US really has to work a lot harder at lowering drug use of Americans. That’s a big part of the problem. The demand side. Unless you stop demand, supply will meet it.” (17:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On El Mencho’s Security:
  • “He basically is up in the mountains of, of Jalisco. He’s surrounded by something like five security rings… there are minefields…” (Drug Trade Expert, 00:13)
• On El Mencho’s Reputation:
  • “He’s a very good killer… He’s known for his violence.” (Drug Trade Expert, 03:44)
• On Sinaloa’s Structure:
  • “It’s kind of a loose confederation of families, many of whom are related by marriage.” (Drug Trade Expert, 06:08)
• On the Drug War’s Futility:
  • “It is a giant game of whack a mole… You know, one big guy is taken down, and then he’s replaced by another guy… and then the winner gets to the top as a result.” (Drug Trade Expert, 16:46)
• On Underlying Causes:
  • “Unless you stop demand, supply will meet it.” (Drug Trade Expert, 17:40)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:13 – Details of El Mencho’s security apparatus
• 01:41 – Statistics on cocaine use surge in the U.S.
• 03:14 – Overview of El Mencho’s origins and criminal beginnings
• 04:22 – Sinaloa cartel's broad reach and El Chapo's capture
• 05:56 – Fractures within the Sinaloa cartel after El Chapo's downfall
• 08:42 – Brutality and casualties of the Sinaloa civil war
• 09:41 – El Mencho gains tunnel access, reshaping drug routes
• 11:11 – U.S. fentanyl crackdown impacts Sinaloa, boosts El Mencho's position
• 13:14 – CJNG’s “parallel government” functions
• 14:59 – The lyrics of a narco ballad about El Mencho
• 15:49 – U.S. bounty and efforts to capture El Mencho
• 16:46 – Reflections on the endless cycle of cartel violence

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Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid, chilling portrait of the drugs, violence, and shifting alliances defining modern Mexico’s narco underworld. El Mencho has not only stepped into the void left by El Chapo, but also innovated, diversified, and entrenched his cartel’s power—fuelled by perpetual U.S. demand. Despite decades of law enforcement efforts, the podcast lands on a sobering conclusion: as long as demand persists, new kingpins will always rise.

Transcript

[Host]

So if I wanted to get a meeting with El Mencho, what would I have to go through in order to get to him?

[Drug Trade Expert]

It'd be tough doing. He is known for very, very strict security measures. He basically is up in the mountains of, of Jalisco. He's surrounded by something like five security rings, each ring with a couple of hundreds of gunmen. And there are minefields that you have to know your way around. If you go, we know from a couple of people who we were told went up there that they're hooded, they have to leave all electronics behind, and they're taking on what is a six hour journey up into the mountains of Jalisco.

[Host]

He sounds extremely heavily guarded and extremely hard to get to.

[Drug Trade Expert]

Yeah, he is. By all accounts, he is.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's our colleague Jose Decordoba, who's based in Mexico City. The reason El Mencho, whose full name is Nemesio Oseguera, is so well guarded is because he's become one of the most powerful drug lords in the world and he's feeding America's seemingly insatiable appetite for cocaine.

[Drug Trade Expert]

You should know that the cocaine trade has really exploded and it has expanded enormously in the last couple of years. And so that's, you know, the US has, not that it ever went away, but the US has rediscovered cocaine.

[Ryan Knudsen]

According to one drug testing company, cocaine consumption in the western part of the US has gone up by 154% since 2019. And US and Mexican authorities say El Mencho is the key supplier for a huge part of that market.

[Drug Trade Expert]

I think without question, he's the most important drug trafficker in Mexico, which would make him one of the most important drug traffickers in the world, if not the most important drug trafficker in the world.

[Host]

How would you describe him like, what's he like as a person?

[Drug Trade Expert]

I think he's rather ruthless. I think I would say his main quality. He's ruthless, he's aggressive, and he's been very ambitious. He's been in this business for a number of decades, since the 80s, and he's been able to rise to the top in what is a, you know, kill or be killed environment.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Ryan KNUDSEN. It's Wednesday, October 15th. Coming up on the show, the rise of El Mencho Nemesio. El Mencho Ozaguara came from humble beginnings.

[Drug Trade Expert]

He's a former Mexican cop who, who grew up poor, growing avocados in the state of Michoacan, immigrated to the us Lived in California for a while.

[Ryan Knudsen]

In the us El Mencho pled guilty to selling heroin and spent three years in a US prison. After he finished his sentence, he was deported back to Mexico where he got involved with the cartel. He quickly moved up the ranks and US and Mexican authorities say he developed a reputation.

[Drug Trade Expert]

He's a very good killer. He is a gunman and an enforcer and a killer. He's known for his violence.

[Ryan Knudsen]

By the 2000 and tens, El Mencho had established himself as the leader of a spinoff group now known as the Jalisco New Generation Cartel.

[Drug Trade Expert]

They're a very violent group and they haven't been shy about confronting state authority. The Jalisco cartel shot down a Mexican army helicopter, killing nine people in 2020 15. Same year, they ambushed a bunch of Jalisco state police and killing 15 of them.

[Ryan Knudsen]

As Jalisco was establishing itself, the country's most infamous cartel, the Sinaloa Cartel, was about to start coming apart. Just a few years ago, Sinaloa was the largest supplier of drugs into the United States. That included cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, marijuana, fentanyl. The cartel had its hands in many different lines of business and it was headed up by Joaquin Guzman, AKA El Chapo.

[Host]

Who is El Chapo?

[Drug Trade Expert]

Who is El Chapo? El Chapo is the most well known, the most famous, the most notorious drug trafficker in modern Mexican history. And he's one of the founders of the what is known as the Sinaloa Cartel.

[Ryan Knudsen]

El Chapo was captured and arrested in 2015, but he was able to escape through a mile long tunnel dug into his prison cell. Shower video footage of his escape was shared on the news.

[Drug Trade Expert]

And then he goes around where the toilet is and you see the dramatic moment. There it is right there. While Chapo disappears into the tunnel.

[Ryan Knudsen]

In 2016, he was arrested again, seemingly for the last time.

[Drug Trade Expert]

He's extradited to the US where he goes on trial and is found guilty and he's now serving a life prison. In terms of what happens then is that he has to. El Chapo turns over his business empire. He turns over his part of the business to his four kids. They're known as the Chapitos.

[Host]

The little Chapos.

[Drug Trade Expert]

The little Chapos.

[Ryan Knudsen]

With El Chapo out of the picture and his sons, the Chipitos, in charge, the Sinaloa cartel started to fracture.

[Drug Trade Expert]

It's important to note that, you know, the Sinaloa Cartel is not a top down hierarchical structure. It's kind of a loose confederation of families, many of whom are Related by marriage.

[Ryan Knudsen]

One of the other powerful families in Sinaloa was led by El Mayo Zambada.

[Drug Trade Expert]

El Mayo Zambada, who is the great patriarch of the Sinaloa cartel. He is 75 years old, has been in the business for 50 years, has never spent a night in jail, and has a reputation for being able to bring people together to mediate these disputes, many of which are violent or have the potential to be violent disputes.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Last year, one of the Chipitos decided he wanted to get out of the drug world and he started talking with US prosecutors looking to make a deal. This is according to people familiar with the case.

[Drug Trade Expert]

So through his lawyers in New York, he basically starts negotiating his surrender. And during those long talks, he offers to bring in El Mayo Zambada, who is like an enormous catch, basically offering.

[Host]

Them, I can deliver you this.

[Drug Trade Expert]

Yeah, I want to sweeten the deal. Let me sweeten the deal. I'll bring in El Mayo Zambada. The US officials don't believe him at the time, but he sets this plot in motion. So he sets up a meeting that El Mayo goes to, but it's not a meeting. It's basically he gets kidnapped. He gets kidnapped. They shove him into a plane and they fly him up to right outside of El Paso, where both men are taken into custody by U.S. officials.

[Ryan Knudsen]

The Chapito's betrayal of El Mayo Zimbaba set off a civil war inside the Sinaloa cartel. On one side, El Chapo's sons, the Chipitos. On the other side, El Mayo's son, who led a faction known as the Maitos. And that civil war would create an opening for El Mencho. That's next. The civil war within the Sinaloa cartel has been brutal.

[Drug Trade Expert]

For the last year, it's been non stop killing every day. There's been a total of about 2,000 people have been killed. Another 2,000 have been disappeared or are missing. Most of them are probably dead.

[Ryan Knudsen]

The warring factions have also been attacking each other's labs or leaking their locations to the Mexican government.

[Drug Trade Expert]

The Mexican government has sent something like 10,000 troops there, but it's been largely unable to stop the violence.

[Ryan Knudsen]

By last December, the Chapitos were starting to lose.

[Drug Trade Expert]

They were desperate, you know, the Maitos were basically had the Chapitos on the run. And what we were told is that the top Chapito guy sent his right hand man to negotiate with El Mencho.

[Ryan Knudsen]

The Chipitos asked El Mencho if he would help supply guns, money and men to help him fight. And in return According to people familiar with the meeting, they offered El Mencho unlimited access to a very prized possession.

[Drug Trade Expert]

Basically, the deal is that the Jalisco cartel, El Mencho, will be able to use all these tunnels that the Chapitos control to send drugs into the United States without paying what they a fee for the use of those tunnels.

[Ryan Knudsen]

For decades, the tunnels have been one of Sinaloa's most critical advantages. They gave the cartel another avenue into the U.S. that was harder to detect than going through traditional border checks, which the cartel also did in the past. The only way a rival cartel could use the tunnels was if they paid a hefty fee.

[Host]

How big of a victory was this for El Mencho to get access to these tunnels?

[Drug Trade Expert]

People consider it a big deal because it makes getting all these drugs into the United States easier and cheaper for the Jalisco organization. So it's seen as a big deal. I mean, the fact that they control these routes now is a big plus for them.

[Ryan Knudsen]

And that's not the only outcome of the deal. The Chipitos and El Mencho also agreed to split the drug market. The Chipitos, which had been increasingly focused on fentanyl, would take that market and El Mencho would take cocaine. This proved to be a fateful decision. While fentanyl was extremely lucrative, it was cheap to make and easy to sell. It was also facing a growing crackdown by the U.S. government.

[Drug Trade Expert]

You know, there are tens of thousands of Americans who are dying of drug overdoses, fentanyl overdoses in the US and this US Is forced to do something about it. When President Trump is elected, he makes it a top of the list issue with Mexico, and he basically tells Mexico that Mexico has to dismantle these cartels and stop the fentanyl trade or the US Will put all kinds of economic pressures on it, namely through tariffs.

[Host]

What does the crackdown on fentanyl mean for the Chipitos and Sinaloa? What starts to happen?

[Drug Trade Expert]

The fentanyl trade has been very much disrupted. It's what I'm told from people who follow it closely. They've had to get out of Sinaloa. Sinaloa and Culiacang in particular was full of all these labs. I think they've had to disperse over lots of different areas of Mexico.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Meanwhile, for El Mencho, the cocaine market was moving in the opposite direction.

[Drug Trade Expert]

There's been a boom in cocaine production in Colombia. You know, it's. They're producing a huge amount of cocaine, and the prices have fallen in the US for cocaine by half from what they used to be five years ago.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Now El Mencho and his Jalisco New Generation cartel is sitting atop the drug world.

[Drug Trade Expert]

All of a sudden, their chief rival is, you know, is, like I said before, is immersed in this bloody civil war. They really, I think, can't attend to business, so they take over a lot of the business that the others can't deal with. You know, they are expanding, and they are seen now as the next threat to Mexico.

[Host]

And El Mencho, is he sort of seen as like the next El Chapo?

[Drug Trade Expert]

Well, yeah, I think in the sense of that he's the biggest guy, the biggest drug boss in Mexico now. Yes, he's seen as that.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Not only is El Mencho's cocaine business booming, Jalisco is also making money from other avenues, too. According to security experts, the cartel acts as a parallel government in the state of Jalisco and other areas of Mexico that they control. It makes money from taxing goods like tortillas, chicken and cigarettes. It controls construction companies that build roads, schools and sewers. And it's even found a huge income stream in smuggling illicit fuel.

[Host]

How do people in Mexico, in the areas that he dominates, how do they feel about him and his cartel?

[Drug Trade Expert]

Well, he has, on the one hand, a reputation for ruthlessness, and so they fear him. But on the other side, you know, in poor areas of Mexico, they are glad to be getting, you know, the food, the medicine, the bands for the town fiesta that he pays for. So I think what you think depends where you're sitting on his table.

[Ryan Knudsen]

There are even songs about him called narco ballads.

[Drug Trade Expert]

Narco ballad is, well, just what it sounds like. It's a ballad about, you know, the heroic deeds of some of these of the important narcos. And right now, you know, Mencho has a lot of them.

[Host]

Can you sing one of them?

[Drug Trade Expert]

Yeah, I can. I don't think I. Let me see. I have one here that if you want, I can say the words to.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Sure.

[Host]

What does it say?

[Drug Trade Expert]

Yo soy Mencho. Soy a quel que le pelego algovierno y que le sobran huevos. I will now translate that. I am Mencho. I am he who fights the government. I am he who has balls aplenty. And there's another part that says, ahora tiemblan los soldados cuando mira mi comando Nisa sercan me usta peliar los gayos me gusta pelaro gallos Las carrera al de caballo music. I'll translate that. Now the soldiers tremble when they look at my men. They don't get close. I like cockfights. I like horse races.

[Ryan Knudsen]

The USS El Mencho is now one of the most wanted fugitives in Mexico. The State Department is offering up to $15 million for information leading to his arrest.

[Host]

What do you think it's going to take for the. For US and Mexican authorities to bring El Mencho down?

[Drug Trade Expert]

Well, I think good intelligence and good coordination and a lot of luck.

[Host]

What is El Mencho's rise to power and his current control on the drug trade right now, say, about the overall drug war?

[Drug Trade Expert]

I guess it shows the power of the drug trade in Mexico.

[Host]

Well, it's interesting because it feels like the US Government and the Mexican government spent so much time and effort to try to break down the Sinaloa cartel, and they got El Chapo. But immediately in the decline of the Sinaloas comes the next new power. And it's just like, whack a molecule.

[Drug Trade Expert]

Well, it is whack a mole. It is a giant game of whack a mole. And, you know, this has been going on for decades. You know, one big guy is taken down, and then he's replaced by another guy, and that other guy who replaces him gets to the top after a lot of violence in which all these rivals basically kill each other, and then the winner gets to the top as a result. There's a lot, usually there's a lot more killing, there's a lot more violence. So that doesn't really do very much. I think the US really has to work a lot harder at lowering drug use of Americans. I mean, that's a big part of the problem. The demand side. Unless you stop demand, supply will meet it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's all for today. Wednesday, October 15th. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Steve Fisher and Santiago Perez. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.