B (3:26)

Risk lives in every employee. Email disclaimers get removed, brand elements get edited. Legal text disappears and nobody notices until the email is already sent. That's regulatory exposure. That's reputational damage multiplied across thousands of emails every single day. Exclaimer eliminates the risk with centralized Email signature management. Fully controlled, fully compliant and fully automated. Visit exclaimer.com to try for free today.

A (4:00)

Humanoid robots, the ones that actually look like humans with limbs and torsos, have taken China by storm in the last few years. The government is constantly showing off their rapidly improving physical capabilities. One robot just beat the human world record in a half marathon in Beijing.

B (4:18)

I think one of the most notable robot related events, annual events in China in the last two years or so has been the CCTV Lunar New Year Gala. Every year they have this show on TV right around Lunar New Year where people sing and dance. And then for the last two years, robots have also been participating in this gala.

A (4:50)

If you haven't seen this video, by the way, it is wild. The robots are doing high level martial arts, perfectly synchronized and even doing backflips.

B (4:59)

Those robots have definitely surpassed my physical ability. You can just really sense the speed of development of technology.

A (5:14)

Yoko says there's a few reasons why the Chinese government is betting big on humanoid robots. First, China sees humanoids as a way to potentially fix a looming demographic problem. The country's population is aging and Beijing is worried that someday there won't be enough workers to keep the economy going.

B (5:31)

Robots could be used in factories, so, you know, they could, for instance, help carry very heavy things that might be too strenuous for humans to carry or just do repetitive work. And the factory line, usually it's already designed for humans, so you don't have to significantly change the line layout.

A (5:52)

Humanoids are also taking on people facing jobs. You've got things like robot hotel receptionists, airport cart handlers, museum guides, and they're even starting to care for the elderly.

B (6:04)

You know, the elderly people, you just have less workers that are able to do that kind of work. So with that demographic issue in mind, I think they find robotics to be very important.

A (6:15)

So it's almost like a labor solution.

B (6:17)

Yeah, that's right. I think an element of that is that and with such rapid pace of aging, you're definitely going to need caretakers and there may not be enough caretakers to look after these older people. And humanoids are considered to be one potential technology to help China cope with aging.

A (6:42)

Bigger picture. China sees humanoid robots as the next phase of the AI race. In the Chinese government's most recent five year plan, which lays out bold and broad goals for the country, humanoids are referred to as embodied AI. In other words, we've come a long way when it comes to artificial brains, and now we need to work on the artificial bodies. And China is Well positioned to do that already.

B (7:09)

We've known China for being very good at making stuff like cell phones or electronics, you know, or even cars these days. And a lot of the technology or components used in these hardware is also going to be used in humanoids because they're also, you know, a big part of humanoids is that they're hardware. So for humanoids, that'll probably be stuff like batteries, that will be stuff like sensors or motors, you know, these components. China already has a very strong foundation, both with technology and the ability to prod them efficiently and cheaply.

A (7:43)

China's mighty supply chain is a major tool when the government wants to breathe life into an up and coming industry. In the past, the country's been able to give a giant boost to cutting edge technologies like EVs and computer chips. And that same playbook is now being applied to humanoids.

B (8:00)

Those might be everything from, you know, offering cheap or free land for a few years as they set up a factory or office space. It might also be about, you know, having some state linked banks offer better loan terms. It could also be that they offer subsidies to buyers. So if you're buying humanoid, you might get, say a 10% subsidy from the government so that it just encourages buyers to, you know, give it a try. Even at a very early stage of

A (8:30)

technology, China's government is also a customer, in many cases the biggest customer, buying up humanoids and deploying them in all kinds of places. This gives the humanoid companies a steady source of revenue and it gives them a playground to test new models and gather data.

B (8:48)

The government itself, in providing certain services, has introduced humanoids. Again, these are still at a very early stage, but there are some robocops and for instance, a city like Hangzhou where they have a Robocop intern doing some traffic control.

A (9:06)

A Robocop intern?

B (9:08)

Yes, it's an intern. So not a full employee yet.

A (9:12)

Not giving it a badge yet.

B (9:14)

They're just not yet, not yet.

A (9:19)

Then of course, there's the robot elephant in the room. The Chinese government's interest in using humanoids for war.

B (9:26)

All these things could be utilized for military purposes. So that might be another reason why they're very focused on this area.

A (9:34)

Like killer robots?

B (9:36)

Yes, killer robots.

A (9:38)

Haven't they watched the Terminator? Come on, people.

B (9:41)

Yeah,

A (9:44)

Terminator bots might be far fetched for now, but Yoko says robotics are already a part of China's military arsenal.

B (9:52)

We've seen stuff like robot wolves in the military parade in China.

A (9:56)

Robot wolves?

B (9:58)

Yes. So it looks like robot dogs, but I guess they are wolves, so a

A (10:03)

little more fierce than a dog.

B (10:04)

Yeah, they're more fierce. You know, they have weapons and you don't want them. Those a dog, I guess.

A (10:08)

Yeah, my dog would never carry. I'd never give my dog a gun. For China, the rapid advancement of humanoid robots is opening up all kinds of possibilities. Meanwhile, over in the U.S. tech companies are watching this with envy and also concern. Coming up, what the US Is doing to catch up. I'll be back. Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc. In the US There are only a few players working on humanoid. One that you might have heard of is called Boston Dynamics, where they're viral videos of slick silver robots that can sprint and do backflips. And then there's Tesla. The EV maker also has its own line of humanoids called Optimus. How does Elon Musk talk about humanoid robots?

B (11:49)

Elon Musk's vision is very big. So he envisions, you know, optimists and humanoids in general to be in factories. You know, they can do domestic chores, housework, they can do surgeries, and even travel to Mars to colonize the planet. So he has a very broad and ambitious vision when it comes to humanoids.

A (12:09)

The scale of Optimus, like I said, that's really going to be something else. I think it's going to be the biggest product of all time by far. In January, during a Tesla earnings call, Musk talked about his ambitions for Optimus. I think long term, Optimus will have a very significant impact on the US gdp. Optimus is already deployed inside factories for Tesla and some other companies it deals with. The robot is advancing fast. But during that call, Musk also acknowledged that his robots face tough competition.

B (12:52)

He realizes that China is a big player here and, you know, and a major rival. So he has mentioned that he hasn't seen any other significant competitors when it comes to humanoids besides China.

A (13:06)

I always think, like, people sort of outside of China kind of underestimate China. China's an ass kicker next level. He said that China is an ass kicker next level. Yeah, their robot feet are kicking us in our human butts.

B (13:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (13:32)

While China is kicking butt when it comes to artificial butts, on the other hand, the US Is ahead when it comes to artificial brains.

B (13:40)

The US is seen to have an edge over China when it comes to the brain part. That's the AI side of things. It's the large language models. It could be the chips. And the US is generally speaking, seen to be ahead. But again, when it comes to hardware, that area, China is just so dominant, and so you can have the brain, but you still need to build the actual hardware. You know, it's not that the US can't make those, they probably can, but it would cost a lot more and take a lot of time. So when you're scaling up, when you're really mass producing humanoids, that's going to be a challenge for the US industry.

A (14:17)

China's supply chain is so dominant that many of the US top robotics companies rely in some way on Chinese parts. And that presents a lot of risks. For instance, China could in theory cripple the US Robotics industry by withholding certain components or even use some of the components it sells to American companies as a secret backdoor to conduct surveillance. China denies it does anything like this.

B (14:42)

If you don't have control of that technology, especially in crucial infrastructure areas, you may be concerned that, you know, if you're using Chinese technology, could they somehow be controlling it from China or, you know, someplace linked to China? Do you want that kind of control handed over to another state? Especially for a state like China where the US Is competing with Chinese?

A (15:06)

Government officials have said that Beijing is committed to safeguarding the security and stability of global supply chains. Lawmakers in the US have also started ringing alarm bells about the military risks of a world filled with Chinese humanoids. Robots with enhanced mobility and AI powered capabilities will become increasingly important in military applications. In March, Congress held hearings where experts warned about China's growing robot supremacy. Robots increasingly will become part of national defense strategies. The Chinese government understands this. In a sign that the US Is concerned about being left behind, last year, President Donald Trump signed an executive order to boost, quote, research facilities for robotic laboratories and production facilities. Meanwhile, a bipartisan bill in the House of Representatives is aiming to outright ban the federal government from using Chinese humanoids in the US. So China and the US are both pushing ahead to create this technology. But can we, like, stop for a second and just think, like, should we even be making AI powered human like robots? I mean, the Terminator aside, is it necessarily a good idea to have humanoids that can do everything that we can, and maybe even a little better.

B (16:31)

It's a great question, and it's a topic that I think a lot of people also in China are debating. I mean, in reality, it's likely to take years. But also what I noticed when I looked at the humanoids, a lot of them running or doing certain tasks in China, was that actually, humans are really great. Like, they can do very complicated tasks, their hands, their legs, their feet, in a way that we never imagined how hard it would be for humanoids to do those. So realizing that it's still going to be years until they can really be useful, really be smart, and be able to do tasks that humans would think are quite simple.

A (17:20)

While we may be years away from a robot LED economy or a robot LED Armageddon, China is actively getting its citizens ready for a robot future, whatever it may look like. Yoko saw firsthand the excitement in children's faces back at that robot mall in Beijing.

B (17:37)

The kids particularly liked the dancing robot as well as the robot dogs. There were three of them, and it's so natural for them, just touching the dogs, speaking to them. By actively buying up these technologies and introducing them. People just get exposed to these kinds of new technology and then, you know, they're used to it. They might adopt it in the future. They're open to it. So I think that's one of the effects that the government's approach has. Like, the Chinese people may be more familiar with and open to humanoids and robots, you know, being a part of their daily life.

A (18:34)

That's all for today, Wednesday, April 29th. To finish off today's credits, here's reporter Ben Fritz, who won trivia during last night's live show in la. Okay. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

B (19:03)

Woo.

A (19:06)

Woo. I couldn't have said it better myself. Nailed it.

B (19:13)

The Future of Everything is the Wall Street Journal's flagship live event, returning to New York City May 4th through 5th. Be there as CEOs, policymakers and innovators sit down with our journalists to answer the most pressing questions of the day. From finance, tech and economic policy to sports streaming and style. We're bringing together today's most compelling newsmakers for two days of conversations on what's Ahead. Listeners of this podcast can access exclusive discounted rates by visiting WSJ.com future that's WSJ.com future.