Musk vs. Altman

Summary

The Journal. — “Musk vs. Altman”

Date: May 15, 2026
Hosts: Jessica Mendoza and Ben Cohen
Theme: A deep-dive into the blockbuster trial of Elon Musk vs. Sam Altman and OpenAI, exploring the internal rift, allegations, implications for OpenAI and AI governance, and the high stakes for the future of artificial intelligence.

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the high-profile court battle between Elon Musk and Sam Altman, co-founders of OpenAI, over the future, mission, and governance of one of the world’s most influential AI companies. Hosts Jessica Mendoza and Ben Cohen go inside the Oakland courtroom, examine the main arguments from both sides, and discuss what this trial means for OpenAI, its leadership, and the broader tech industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Conflict

[03:47–05:44]

• OpenAI was founded in 2015 as a nonprofit with the goal to build AI “for the good of humanity”—independent from singular company or personal control.
• Founders: Sam Altman, Elon Musk, and others. Musk originally donated $38 million.
• Quickly, the costs of developing advanced AI outstripped nonprofit fundraising capabilities, leading to a conversion into a “capped-profit” for-profit entity with a nonprofit parent.
• Implication: This restructuring shifted incentives and accountability, causing division among the founders.

2. Musk’s Allegations

[00:35–02:44], [07:45–10:16]

• Musk claims his vision and donations were manipulated and misused as OpenAI shifted to for-profit, betraying the original mission.
• Lawsuit’s asks: Remove Sam Altman as CEO, transfer ~$180B to the nonprofit arm.
• Quote:

  “This would be like, let’s say you funded an organization to save the Amazon rainforest. Instead, they became a lumber company and chopped down the forest and sold it for money. … That’s the exact opposite of what I gave the money for.” —Elon Musk on CNBC [05:44]

• Musk’s team showcased Greg Brockman’s (OpenAI president) private journal entries, e.g.,

  “Financially, what will take me to 1 billion? Hmm.” [09:06–09:13]
  And:
  “It’d be wrong to steal the nonprofit from him…that’d be pretty morally bankrupt, and he’s not really an idiot.” [09:51]

• Courtroom Color: Journal (diary) entries displayed on large screens for all to see—an unusual and attention-grabbing tactic.
• Musk himself called testifying “I was a fool who provided them free funding to create a startup.” [11:39]

3. OpenAI’s Defense

[13:00–15:29]

• OpenAI claims Musk was not only aware of, but supported, the for-profit conversion—until he was denied majority control.
• They argue Musk seeks now to slow OpenAI’s progress for competitive reasons (given his own AI company, xAI).
• Presented evidence (emails, texts) showing Musk’s approval and shifting stance.
• Quote:

  “The only person who claims to have heard these promises is Mr. Musk himself.” —OpenAI lawyer [14:09]

4. Sam Altman’s Testimony & “The Blip”

[14:38–18:10]

• Altman’s calm on the stand—recounted his upbringing, OpenAI’s mission, and the infamous 2023 “blip” (his sudden ouster/reinstatement as CEO).
• On the blip, Altman admitted:

  “There was clearly a misunderstanding…a breach of trust, and I apologize for that.” [16:53]

• Musk’s lawyers aimed to paint Altman as untrustworthy:

  Q: “Are you completely trustworthy?”
  Sam: “I believe so.”
  Lawyer: “But you don’t know whether you’re completely trustworthy.” [16:59–17:21]

• Tense moments, as Altman, pressed about not paying attention to trial depositions, paused and replied:

  “Of course I care, but I’m also running a very important company.” [17:23]

• Altman’s legal team labeled the cross-examination a “character assassination.” [18:10]

5. Stakes & Potential Outcomes

[18:10–20:05]

• Musk seeks Altman and Brockman’s removal and $180B transferred to the nonprofit parent—a sum that could cripple OpenAI, especially ahead of a planned IPO.

  “$180 billion would be a huge loss…any billion in loss is a huge loss for companies like these.” —Ben Cohen [19:17]

• If OpenAI wins: status quo, IPO proceeds, but reputational damage may linger.
• Broader questions: Governance and accountability for powerful AI firms, given the public stakes and lack of outside oversight.

6. Implications for AI Governance

[20:05–21:33]

• The trial spotlights the power and opacity of tech leadership:

  “It brings up a lot of questions about all these people who are leading the most powerful tech companies in the world…How do we hold them accountable? Do we get a say in who leads these companies?”

• The case may be the rare instance where “nine very ordinary Americans … potentially have a say in who leads the most powerful AI company in the world.” [20:27–21:33]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On the Media Circus:

  “As soon as they come into the security, all these photographers and videographers just start clamoring up against the windows…It’s a little bit like a circus.” —Ben Cohen [01:24–01:42]

• On Greg Brockman’s Journal:

  “Financially, what will take me to 1 billion? Hmm.” —Greg’s diary, read in court [09:06]
  “Let me go back to your diary. Your journal. Excuse me.” —Musk’s lawyer [08:46]

• On Accountability in Tech:

  “It’s been really interesting to watch these very powerful people in AI to see how they actually do deals and the consequences of their deal making…Neither side has painted the other leader of the next frontier of technology in a very positive light.” —Ben Cohen [20:27–21:33]

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | | ----------- | ------------------------------------------------- | | 00:05–02:18 | Introduction; high-profile trial context | | 03:47–05:44 | OpenAI’s origin, nonprofit-to-profit transition | | 07:45–10:25 | Musk’s argument; Brockman’s journal in evidence | | 11:39–12:00 | Musk’s testimony; notable quote | | 13:00–13:50 | OpenAI’s defense: Musk’s support for conversion | | 14:09–15:29 | Star witness: Sam Altman, cross-examination | | 16:53–17:23 | Altman’s apology, fiery cross-exam moments | | 18:10–19:44 | Closing arguments, trial impact on OpenAI | | 20:05–21:33 | Broader AI sector and governance implications |

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Tone and Style

• The episode adopts a sharp, direct, and sometimes wry tone, especially when describing courtroom theatrics and Silicon Valley personalities.
• Quotes and exchanges reveal tensions, high stakes, and the human drama behind an industry-defining legal showdown.

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Final Thoughts

The Musk vs. Altman trial is not just about money or ego, but about what values will govern the future of the most powerful technologies—and who gets to decide. The verdict, expected next week, will determine not only OpenAI’s fate but may set a precedent for leadership accountability in the AI era.

Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

It was a busy few weeks at the US Courthouse in Oakland, California, the venue for a high stakes trial over one of the biggest names in artificial intelligence, OpenAI. A crowd of people gathered outside every day, many of them hoping to watch the contentious trial in, including our colleague Angel Au Young.

[Ben Cohen]

The mornings, there's usually a line outside the Courthouse starting at 5:45am

[Jessica Mendoza]

the two people on opposite sides of the trial, Elon Musk and Sam Altman, two of the co founders of OpenAI. In fact, the lawsuit itself is called Musk v. Altman.

[Ben Cohen]

Elon Musk is suing OpenAI for basically manipulating him into giving tens of millions of dollars to OpenAI.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Musk's initial funding helped get OpenAI off the ground. And essentially, he says OpenAI and Sam Altman as its leader, misused those donations because the company abandoned its original mission of building AI for the good of humanity. And as the trial has unfolded over the past three weeks, a who's who of Silicon Valley have filed into the courthouse, headed for the witness stand.

[Ben Cohen]

As soon as they come into the security, all these photographers and videographers just start clamoring up against the windows and they're just like clicking, clicking, clicking. And as the day goes on, protesters start showing up outside the courthouse.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Sounds like a circus. A little bit.

[Ben Cohen]

It's a little bit like a circus.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Closing arguments for the trial happened yesterday and a verdict could come as soon as next week. Some of the things Musk wants for Sam Altman to be removed as OpenAI CEO and for the company to transfer around $180 billion to its charitable arm.

[Ben Cohen]

If even one of these is granted, that could really upend OpenAI. As it is today, for OpenAI, the stakes are very high.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Friday, May15. Coming up on the show, the blockbuster AI trial of the century.

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[Jessica Mendoza]

The roots of this lawsuit go back to OpenAI's origins. The company was founded in 2015 and its goal was to build technology for the good of humanity.

[Ben Cohen]

OpenAI was started as a nonprofit so that no one entity, no one person, no one company would control very powerful technology.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Sam Altman, Elon Musk and the other founders wanted to create AI that was safe so that it didn't, you know, destroy all humankind. They also wanted to be driven by their ideas, not by shareholders and profit. To help get the project off the ground, they got donations from several tech players, including $38 million from Elon Musk. But it wasn't enough because it turns out that building AI is really, really expensive. Companies need billions for the computing power to train models and make them better. OpenAI's leaders came to feel that as a nonprofit, the company simply wouldn't be able to raise enough to fund their ambitions. So they restructured into a for profit that let them start bringing in investments. Though the company still has a nonprofit

[Ben Cohen]

parent with the for profit conversion. You've now got a CEO who's got shareholders to answer to. These shareholders are going to expect a for profit company to make money. The incentives have completely shifted is what some people would argue.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Since then, OpenAI has grown exponentially. It's formed a partnership with Microsoft, and the company's latest valuation puts it at over $800 billion. Meanwhile, Musk's relationship with the company had started to deteriorate. Musk left OpenAI's board in 2018 and later founded his own AI company, Xai. He's also become publicly critical of both OpenAI and Altman. Here's Musk on CNBC.

[Commercial/Advertisement Voice]

I mean, this would be like, let's say you funded an organization to save the Amazon rainforest. Instead, they became a lumber company and chopped down the forest and sold it for money. And you'd be therefore, like, well, wait a second, that's the exact opposite of what I gave the money for.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Musk took his disagreement with OpenAI one step further further when in 2024, he filed a lawsuit against OpenAI, Altman and the company's president, Greg Brockman, elon Musk

[Ben Cohen]

suing OpenAI and the company CEO Sam Altman, alleging they have breached the company's founding agreement.

[Commercial/Advertisement Voice]

Musk is accusing the ChatGPT maker of

[Ben Cohen]

putting profits ahead of its original promise,

[Commercial/Advertisement Voice]

which was to do good for the public.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It took a while for the suit to get to trial, but it finally started a few weeks ago at the end of April inside the courtroom. Can you start by telling us about the judge? Who is the judge for this trial?

[Ben Cohen]

The judge is Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers. She has presided in a lot of really important cases that have had a lot of ramifications for Silicon Valley. And she has a reputation for being a real, no nonsense judge.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And she lived up to that reputation. Almost right away. On the day of opening arguments, she reprimanded Musk for posting about the trial on social media and called him up to the podium.

[Ben Cohen]

So she had, you know, the richest man in the world step up to the courtroom and basically look up at her. And she basically said, you know, your posting on X is causing me trouble. You know, maybe you've never done this before, but let's see if you can actually stop posting on X for once in your life, was the tone that she had.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Right.

[Ben Cohen]

And, you know, this is her courtroom. So Musk had to say, yes, I'll stop posting.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Okay, now let's get into the two sides of this trial, starting with Musk's side. What was the argument that his lawyers made?

[Ben Cohen]

Musk's lawyers are essentially saying that Sam and Greg were not truthful about their intentions when they created OpenAI, and that as Elon was giving tens of millions of dollars to OpenAI, Sam and Greg's intentions were to turn into a for profit and make a lot of money from it.

[Jessica Mendoza]

One of the most striking pieces of evidence that Musk's team presented was the personal journal of OpenAI's president, Greg Brockman.

[Ben Cohen]

With Greg, Musk's lawyers have pointed to some private journal entries that he had written during that time when they were negotiating the for profit conversion to basically show the jurors, look, Greg has always just been in this for the money. He didn't care about the mission.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Excerpts from Brockman's journal, which were written in a kind of shorthand, were displayed on large video screens big enough for the whole courtroom to see. And while OpenAI lawyers referred to Brockman's journal, Musk's lawyers repeatedly called it a diary. As in, quote, let me go back to your diary. Your journal. Excuse me.

[Ben Cohen]

In one journal entry, he wrote, financially, what will take me to 1 billion? Hmm.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Like he already had an interest in making money at the time.

[Ben Cohen]

Exactly right. And so Musk's lawyers, they really made the most out of these diary entries for their argument. And, you know, Stephen Molo, litigator for Musk, he brought up that particular passage, financially, what will take me to 1 billion? And then he asked Brockman when he was on the witness stand, what you really wanted was to be a billionaire, right?

[Jessica Mendoza]

What did he say?

[Ben Cohen]

Greg afterwards said, solving for the mission has always been my primary motivation, and it remains so today.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Musk's team pointed to another entry from Brockman's journal where he wrote about turning OpenAI into a for profit and what it would mean for Musk. It reads, quote, it'd be wrong to steal the nonprofit from him and also, quote, that'd be pretty morally bankrupt, and he's not really an idiot. And so what was the point of showing the journal ultimately? Like, what were Musk's lawyers trying to say about Brockman?

[Ben Cohen]

To basically show the jurors, look, Greg has always just been in this for the money. He didn't care about the mission.

[Jessica Mendoza]

How unusual is that as a piece of evidence in a trial like this?

[Ben Cohen]

Very unusual. The way that Greg has described it is that this was never meant for public consumption. And he has described it as his stream of consciousness that there are things that he wrote that maybe he didn't really mean. It was just a passing thought, but now it's been put up for evidence.

[Jessica Mendoza]

When one OpenAI board member was on the stand, the judge asked about what's more important, the fiduciary duty to the for profit or the mission of the nonprofit. And the board member said the mission always takes precedence. Over the course of the trial, a number of other big Silicon Valley names testified, like Sachin Adela, the CEO of Microsoft. Ilya Sutskever, another co founder of OpenAI, and Siobhan Zylis, a former OpenAI board member and Musk's current romantic partner. And there was Elon Musk himself, who was on the stand for three days. At one point, he said, quote, I was a fool who provided them free funding to create a startup. Then, as the trial moved into its third week, all eyes turned to one of the final witnesses, Sam Altman. That's after the break.

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[Jessica Mendoza]

On the other side. What are OpenAI's lawyers arguing in the company's defense?

[Ben Cohen]

OpenAI's lawyers have argued that Elon is for the for profit conversion. Not only was Elon for the for profit conversion, he actually wanted majority control of it and that when the OpenAI co founders said no to that request, Elon cut off funding, went on to start his own AI company and that this lawsuit is the quote, unquote, latest variant of Elon's efforts to basically slow OpenAI down for his own AI company.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So painting him almost as this, like sort of vindictive person.

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, exactly. They pointed to a number of emails and text messages that pointed to Musk's approval of the for profit conversion.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What was Musk's defense against that?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, so Musk's defense was that, yeah, I was for a for profit conversion at one point because I understood that they needed more financing. I just don't agree with how they went about it.

[Jessica Mendoza]

OpenAI's lawyer said that no promises were made to Musk that OpenAI would remain a nonprofit organization. He said, quote, the only person who claims to have heard these promises is Mr. Musk himself. On Tuesday morning, OpenAI's lawyers called their star witness, Sam Altman. He walked into the courtroom wearing a sharp suit and lavender tie. Can we take a moment here? What was it like when he got up there? How did he seem?

[Ben Cohen]

I thought he kept a pretty calm demeanor throughout the entire time at the trial, actually. I mean, Sam was actually in the courtroom for most of the days during this trial, but Tuesday was his first day actually on the witness stand.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Part of the Musk team's courtroom strategy was to prove that Altman was untrustworthy, that he had lied to the company's board a number of times, and that he prioritized profit over the company's original mission.

[Ben Cohen]

If they can prove to the jurors that this is an untrustworthy person, then they can make the case that Sam had ill intent all along. And so while a lot of these accusations of Sam lying didn't necessarily pertain to, you know, the for profit conversion. It still paints this picture of Sam being a liar.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Altman's lawyers wanted him to show that wasn't true and to make that case directly to the jurors. So walk us through this. When what happened?

[Ben Cohen]

When he testified, he talked about his upbringing, how he got into the tech industry. He talked about how he helped start OpenAI. And at some point during his testimony, the infamous blip came up.

[Commercial/Advertisement Voice]

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[Jessica Mendoza]

The blip was the short period of time when Sam was ousted as CEO. And then he came back.

[Ben Cohen]

Exactly.

[Commercial/Advertisement Voice]

The board says it pushed Altman out after a review found he was, quote, not consistently candid in his communications with the board. OpenAI posting on X that Sam Altman

[Ben Cohen]

will now officially return as CEO. That was, I think, an important moment in Sam's testimony because it was his time to tell the jurors his perspective of the events that happened. And as we all know now, the board then felt the need to push Sam out because they said that he hadn't been honest with them about a number of things. And, you know, Sam, he said, you know, there was clearly a misunderstanding and there was clearly a breach of trust, and I apologize for that.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And then Musk's lawyer, Stephen Molo, took his turn questioning Altman.

[Ben Cohen]

The cross examination had a very fiery start. Yeah, so. So the first question that Musk's litigator asked him was, are you completely trustworthy? And Sam said, I believe so. And Molo said, but you don't know whether you're completely trustworthy. So that was really how the cross examination started.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Set the tone.

[Ben Cohen]

It really set the tone. And shortly after that, Molo brought up specific testimonies that actually came up during the trial. And Sam would say, oh, I didn't watch that deposition. I didn't listen to that testimony. And at a certain point, Molo said, you know, are you even paying attention in this trial? Like, do you even care about this trial? And Sam had a very long pause, long pause. And then he said, you know, of course I care, but I'm also running a very important company. Sam's legal team, you know, they very much called this cross examination a character assassination. That's how they described it in a press conference after Sam's testimony.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The trial wrapped up yesterday with closing arguments. OpenAI's lawyer said Musk was aware of the plan to convert the company from a nonprofit to a for profit and only soured on the idea once it became clear he couldn't fully control it. Musk's lawyer ended his arguments by reiterating that Sam Altman was a liar and that OpenAI's leadership had been deceptive. The jury is set to begin deliberations on Monday. If they decide against OpenAI, then the judge will decide what happens next, whether to give Musk any of the remedies he asked for in the original suit.

[Ben Cohen]

Elon has asked to remove Sam as CEO and Greg as president. So it could mean OpenAI potentially losing 2 of its prime leaders. Another remedy that Elon is asking is for $180 billion to be paid out from OpenAI's for profit entity into its non profit parent.

[Jessica Mendoza]

There's also the potential that OpenAI would have to change its company structure. That could mean big trouble for OpenAI, which is planning to go public later this year.

[Ben Cohen]

Being able to finance the type of data infrastructure is very, very expensive. And $180 billion would be a huge loss for OpenAI. I mean, that's the maximum amount, but any billion in loss is a huge loss for companies like these. And the company's trying to go public this year. So this kind of a financial loss would seriously slow the company down.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What if OpenAI wins?

[Ben Cohen]

What if OpenAI wins? If OpenAI wins, then, you know, all goes according to plan. There are a lot of people who are anticipating the company's ipo, so that timeline will be cemented and Sam will live another day as CEO of OpenAI.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In other words, if the verdict goes to OpenAI, things mostly stay the same for the company. But there's now a question of whether there will be real reputational damage and if it will stick. What does this mean for the AI sector beyond just OpenAI and Musk?

[Ben Cohen]

Yeah, I think it raises some serious questions around governance. It's been really interesting to watch these very powerful people in AI to see how they actually do deals and the consequences of their deal making. And it brings into question, I guess, like who we actually want to lead these AI companies, because neither side has painted the other leader of the next frontier of technology in a very positive light. So I think it brings up a lot of questions about all these people who are leading the most powerful tech companies in the world, world. How do we hold them accountable? Do we get a say in who leads these companies? Is this trial potentially the only way for, you know, nine very ordinary Americans who are serving as jurors to potentially have a say in who leads the most powerful AI company in the world?

[Jessica Mendoza]

News corp. The owner of the wall street journal, has a content licensing partnership with OpenAI. That's all for today. Friday, may 15 additional reporting in this episode by ben cohen, keech hagee and becky peterson. The journal is a co production of Spotify and the wall street journal. The show's made by laura benshoff, kathryn brewer, evelyn fajardo alvarez, pia gadkari, max green, sophie codner, mack kwong, colin mcnulty, laura morris, enrique perez de la rosa, sarah platt, allen rodriguez espinosa, heather rogers, pierce singhy, jeevika verma, katherine whelan, tatiana zemis and me, jessica mendoza. Our engineers are griffin tanner, nathan singapak and peter leonard. Our theme music is by so wiley. Additional music this week from katherine anderson, peter leonard, emma munger, nathan smith, singapore, griffin tanner and blue dot sessions. Fact checking this week by mary mathis. Thanks for listening. See you on Monday.