Pope Francis Has Died. What’s Next for the Catholic Church?

Summary

The Journal: Pope Francis Has Died. What’s Next for the Catholic Church?

Episode Release Date: April 21, 2025
Hosts: Kate Linebaugh and Ryan Knutson, with Jessica Mendoza
Production: The Wall Street Journal & Gimlet, Spotify

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Introduction

In this poignant episode of The Journal, host Jessica Mendoza, alongside correspondent Margarita Stancati based in Rome, delves into the sudden death of Pope Francis and explores the implications for the future of the Catholic Church. The episode meticulously examines Pope Francis’s legacy, the immediate reactions to his passing, and the intricate process that will follow in selecting his successor.

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Last Public Appearance and Death Announcement

The episode opens with Jessica Mendoza recounting Pope Francis's final public appearance:

Jessica Mendoza [00:10]: "Yesterday, on Easter Sunday, Pope Francis graced the public with his presence outside the Vatican for the last time."

Margarita Stancati provides detailed observations of the event:

Margarita Stancati [00:19]: "He appeared on the balcony at St. Peter's Basilica. He blessed the crowd that had gathered there for Easter. The Pope seemed very frail and still breathless."

Stancati further confirms the Pope’s declining health and the unexpected nature of his passing:

Margarita Stancati [00:37]: "Pope Francis had a life-threatening bout with pneumonia recently... The Vatican announced that Pope Francis had died at 7:35 this morning in his apartment in the Vatican."

The formal announcement from the Vatican is highlighted:

Pope Francis [01:06]: "Con profondo dolore devo annunciare la morte del nostro Santo Padre Francesco."
(Translation: "With deep sorrow, I must announce the death of our Holy Father Francis.")

Stancati emphasizes the unexpectedness of his death, noting his public appearance just hours before.

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Who Was Pope Francis?

The hosts delve into the background and personal life of Pope Francis, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of his journey:

Margarita Stancati [03:09]: "So Pope Francis was born in Argentina, in Buenos Aires, in 1936... he spent his youth in Argentina. That's where he became a priest and where he also first became bishop."

Jessica Mendoza outlines his rise within the Church:

Jessica Mendoza [03:32]: "Francis was born Jorge Mario Bergoglio and was ordained as a Jesuit when he was in his early 30s. In 2001, he became a cardinal... In 2013, he became a surprising pick to lead a worldwide population of Catholics that now exceeds an estimated 1.4 billion people."

Pope Francis is celebrated as a trailblazer:

Pope Francis [04:06]: "Francisco Giorgio Mario Bergoglio, a Jesuit pope from Argentina, the first pope in 2000 years from the New World."

Further distinctions include:

• First Pope from the Americas
• First Jesuit Pope
• Chosen the name Francis after Saint Francis of Assisi

Margarita Stancati [04:26]: "He was the first pope from the Jesuit order and the first pope to take the name Francis... He chose a modest lifestyle, living in a simple car and a modest apartment instead of the luxurious Apostolic Palace."

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Leadership and Reforms

Pope Francis's leadership style and reforms significantly shaped his papacy:

Margarita Stancati [05:16]: "He always made a point of spending time with the poor, with the homeless, and even with prison inmates."

His efforts to combat corruption within the Vatican are noted:

Jessica Mendoza [05:22]: "Francis criticized corruption in the Vatican bank... improving financial transparency and preventing money laundering."

Pope Francis adopted progressive stances on various social issues:

Margarita Stancati [05:41]: "He was much more informal, and he adopted much more lenient positions on issues that ranged from homosexuality to contraception to divorce."

A notable quote reflecting his inclusive approach:

Pope Francis [05:56]: "If a person is gay and seeks God and has goodwill, who am I to judge him?"

Despite his progressive views, he maintained core conservative doctrines:

Margarita Stancati [06:01]: "He was still the head of the Catholic Church, which was still conservative."

His global influence extended to climate advocacy and peace:

Margarita Stancati [06:35]: "He criticized global capitalism... called for an end to conflicts in Gaza, in Ukraine, and in Sudan... reduce carbon emissions and combat climate change."

Pope Francis [07:37]: "Climate change is a problem."

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Legacy and Controversies

While widely respected, Pope Francis's tenure was not without criticism:

• Handling of Sexual Abuse Scandals:

  Jessica Mendoza [07:47]: "He also faced a lot of criticism... in 2018, the Pope had defended a bishop from Chile who was accused of covering up abuses."

  Margarita Stancati [08:13]: "Critics say he could have done more... Bishop Accountability stated the Pope should have removed and punished abusers more decisively."

• Balancing Progressivism and Conservatism:

  Margarita Stancati [09:06]: "Conservative Catholics... complained that the Pope was blurring the lines on doctrine... worried he was being too liberal on issues such as celibacy."

Despite controversies, his overall legacy remains impactful:

Margarita Stancati [09:50]: "Francis legacy ultimately is promoting social and economic justice... addressing injustices and speaking out against conflicts."

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Reactions to His Death

The Catholic community experiences profound grief and transitions:

Jessica Mendoza [12:02]: "The death of Pope Francis has left the administration of the Catholic Church to the Vatican's camerlengo, or chamberlain, Cardinal Kevin Farrell."

Plans for mourning and succession are outlined:

Margarita Stancati [12:16]: "There will be a period of mourning, a funeral, and then a conclave to elect a new pope."

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Electing the Next Pope

The conclave process is detailed, highlighting its secrecy and complexity:

Jessica Mendoza [12:40]: "A conclave is a highly secretive gathering of cardinals... 135 cardinals... shut out from the outside world until the decision is made."

Key aspects include:

• Two-Thirds Majority Requirement:

  Margarita Stancati [13:00]: "The conclave requires 2/3 of the cardinals to agree on who the new pope will be."

• Influence of Pope Francis's Appointments:

  Margarita Stancati [10:35]: "Pope Francis... appointed about 2/3 of the cardinals participating in the conclave."

Potential candidates emerge, each bringing different visions:

Margarita Stancati [14:01]: "Among the eligible candidates is the Vatican's Secretary of State... a cardinal from Hungary... a Congolese archbishop... a former archbishop from the Philippines known as the Asian Francis."

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Future of the Catholic Church

The episode concludes with insights into the evolving nature of the Catholic Church:

Margarita Stancati [14:32]: "The new pope will inherit a church that is a lot more global... shifting focus from Europe to South America and Africa... challenges include balancing liberal and conservative factions within a diverse global congregation."

The transformation towards a more international church presents both opportunities and hurdles, ensuring that the Church remains dynamic and responsive to a changing world.

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Conclusion

As The Journal navigates through the unexpected demise of Pope Francis, it encapsulates the essence of his transformative papacy, the immediate administrative responses, and the uncertain yet hopeful path ahead for the Catholic Church. The episode serves as a comprehensive guide for listeners to understand the profound impact of Pope Francis’s leadership and the significant processes that will shape the future of one of the world's largest religious institutions.

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Additional Reporting: Francis X Raca and Marcus Walker
Merchandise: Shop Here
Production Credits: The Wall Street Journal & Gimlet, Spotify

Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

Yesterday, on Easter Sunday, Pope Francis graced the public with his presence outside the Vatican for the last time.

[Margarita Stancati]

He appeared on the balcony at St. Peter's Basilica. He blessed the crowd that had gathered there for Easter. The Pope seemed very frail and still breathless.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Our colleague Margarita Stancati is based in Rome.

[Margarita Stancati]

Pope Francis had a life threatening bout with pneumonia recently. Bona pascua. He wished everybody happy Easter. And then he also got on his Pope mobile and drove through the crowd. And that was the last time we saw him in public. So this morning, the Vatican announced that Pope Francis had died.

[Pope Francis]

Con profondo dolore devo annunciare la morte del nostro Santo Padre Francesco.

[Margarita Stancati]

It was a shock because the Pope had appeared a few hours ago yesterday in public, and so it was really not expected.

[Pope Francis]

Aleore sete trente cinque.

[Margarita Stancati]

The Vatican said that the Pope had died at 7:35 this morning in his apartment in the Vatican. The death of a pope is a huge deal for the Catholic Church. Popes serve until they die. So whenever a pope changes, they can stay in their office for many years, even decades.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And so with the death of Pope Francis, what's the burning question that you as a reporter and Catholics around the world will have?

[Margarita Stancati]

Well, Pope Francis was in some ways a social justice warrior. He was definitely seen as progressive within the Catholic Church. So the big question looming as the Vatican prepares to elect another pope is whether that legacy will continue with a new pope or he will take it in a different direction.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, April 21st. Coming up on the show, Pope Francis has died. What's next for the Catholic Church? Who was Pope Francis? Can you tell us a bit about who he was as a person?

[Margarita Stancati]

So Pope Francis was born in Argentina, in buenos Aires, in 1936. He was the first of five children. The family was of Italian origin, and he spent his youth in Argentina. That's where he became a priest and where he also first became bishop.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Francis was born Jorge Mario Bergoglio and was ordained as a Jesuit when he was in his early 30s. In 2001, he became a cardinal. He built a reputation for living modestly, cooking his own meals and taking public transit. And he was known for ministering to people in the shanty towns of Buenos Aires. In 2013, he became a surprising pick to lead a worldwide population of Catholics that now exceeds an estimated 1.4 billion people.

[Pope Francis]

Francisco Giorgio Mario Bergoglio, a Jesuit pope from Argentina, the first pope in 2000 years from the New World.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Francis was a pope of firsts, the first to come from the Americas.

[Margarita Stancati]

He was the first pope from the Jesuit order and the first pope to take the name Francis. And he took that name after Saint Francis of Assisi, who was a medieval saint who famously renounced his wealth and embraced a life of poverty. And that is a message that Pope Francis wanted to give at the outset of his papacy and that he stayed true to throughout his reign. After he became pope, he decided to drive around in a simple car and afford focus. He refused to live in the luxurious Apostolic palace, instead choosing a modest apartment in the Vatican's guest house. And he always made a point of spending time with the poor, with the homeless, and even with prison inmates.

[Pope Francis]

Pope Francis washing the feet of 12 women prisoners.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Francis brought his personal ethos to the church itself. He criticized corruption in the Vatican bank, which had been beset with scandal. His efforts there included improving financial transparency and preventing money laundering. And his progressive ideas were reflected in the way he approached issues that the Church has historically opposed.

[Margarita Stancati]

He was much more informal, and he adopted much more lenient positions on issues that ranged from homosexuality to contraception to divorce. And when asked about gay priests, he famously said, if a person is gay.

[Pope Francis]

And seeks God and has goodwill, who am I to judge him?

[Margarita Stancati]

Who am I to judge? He did show greater openness towards the LGBTQ community. That was something that really displeased more conservative Catholics. Just today, a group that advocates for LGBTQ Catholics said that Pope Francis had been a gift to the church and to the LGBTQ community. But he was still the head of the Catholic Church, which was still conservative. He was quite critical, for example, of what he called gender ideology. So he was progressive within the framework of the Catholic Church, but he was still the pope.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And as Pope, Francis used his voice to influence global issues, he was also very outspoken.

[Margarita Stancati]

He criticized global capitalism. He spoke against wars. In his most recent address yesterday, he called for an end to conflicts in Gaza, in Ukraine, and in Sudan. He criticized governments for taking a hard line on immigration and had repeatedly clashed with the Trump administration over this. He was especially critical of these kind of large scale deportations.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And is that unusual for a pope to speak out in this way?

[Margarita Stancati]

I think popes have weighed in on current affairs for a long time. Pope Francis was definitely not shy about it. He spoke out his mind, and he very often weighed in on political affairs. And, for example, he also called on political leaders to reduce carbon emissions and to combat climate change. He wasn't scared to weigh in on some of the most sensitive social and political issues of his day.

[Pope Francis]

It seems clear to me also that.

[Margarita Stancati]

Climate change is a problem.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The pope's willingness to speak on sensitive issues and his insistence on living a modest life made him popular around the world. But he also faced a lot of criticism during his papacy, especially from those who felt he didn't do enough to crack down on sexual abuse within the church. For example, in 2018, the Pope had defended a bishop from Chile who was accused of covering up abuses. Francis later said he'd been misinformed.

[Margarita Stancati]

So no controversy during his reign rivaled the impact of the scandals over the sexual abuse of children by priests. The pope had a no tolerance policy over the abuse of children, but critics say he could have done more. Just today, Bishop Accountability, which is a watchdog group that documents clergy sexual abuse, said that the Pope should have done more to remove and punish abusers as well as their neighbors from the church. And they said that this will tarnish his legacy. For example, he did not adopt the practice of permanently barring abusers from serving as priests.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So, broadly speaking, how did the Church feel about Francis approach? Was it generally approved of, or did it cause tensions?

[Margarita Stancati]

So Pope Francis was much beloved. He was a very popular pope. But his approach did cause tensions within the Catholic Church. So conservative Catholics, including cardinals and bishops, many of them in the United States, complained that the Pope was blurring the lines on doctrine on issues such as blessings for same sex couples. They also worried that he was being a bit too liberal on issues such as celibacy, although ultimately he did not loosen that requirement. So he did cause some tensions within the church.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What would you say is Francis legacy?

[Margarita Stancati]

Francis legacy ultimately is promoting social and economic justice. So focusing on these quite concrete objectives more than, you know, in traditional moral teachings. He showed flexibility on the Church's traditional moral teachings, but really pushed hard when it came to addressing injustices and speaking out against conflicts.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Over the course of his papacy, Francis also wanted to broaden the Church's global reach. He made it a point to elevate more leaders from beyond Europe and the Church's major population centers. Is there the expectation that his approach will continue with the next pope?

[Margarita Stancati]

One of the Pope's most concrete legacies is the fact that he picked two thirds of the cardinals who will then be selecting the new pope. So there is a good chance that his legacy will outlive him.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Francis died Monday morning at the age of 88. The cause of death was a stroke, according to a medical bulletin released by the Vatican. What's ahead for the Catholic Church is after the break.

[Kevin Farrell]

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[Pope Francis]

Uh. Oh.

[Kevin Farrell]

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[Jessica Mendoza]

The death of Pope Francis has left the administration of the Catholic Church to the Vatican's camerlengo, or chamberlain. He's an Irish American cardinal named Kevin Farrell, and he'll run the Vatican's day to day affairs until the next Pope is elected.

[Margarita Stancati]

So the Pope's passing will lead to a period of mourning. So for a few days, that is what the Church and the faithful will focus on. After that, there will be a funeral. And after that, there will be a conclave, which is a gathering of cardinals that will meet in the Vatican, in the Sistine Chapel and start choosing a new pope.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A conclave is a highly secretive gathering of cardinals, an election for the most powerful voice in the Catholic Church. 135 cardinals from all over the world will be eligible to vote for the next pope. The cardinals will be shut out from the outside world until the decision is made.

[Margarita Stancati]

The conclave requires 2/3 of the cardinals to agree on who the new pope will be. All cardinals under the age of 80 will get to participate in the election. It's significant that Pope Francis himself has appointed about 2/3 of the cardinals who will be participating in the conclave.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And how long does this usually take?

[Margarita Stancati]

It's hard to say. It can take. It can take longer than that, but usually it's a process that takes a few days and that is marked by kind of white smoke coming from the roof of the Sistine Chapel.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Are there any clues as to who might be next in line for the papacy?

[Margarita Stancati]

It's extremely hard to tell. You know, when Pope Francis became pontiff 12 years ago, no one expected he, he would be the chosen one. So we'll have to wait and see.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Among the eligible candidates is the Vatican's Secretary of State, who likely has the clout to assemble enough support. There's also a cardinal from Hungary who's seen as a serious conservative contender. Other candidates include a Congolese archbishop who has stood against blessings for same sex couples. And a former archbishop from the Philippines who's been called the Asian Francis. What kind of church will this next pope inherit?

[Margarita Stancati]

The new pope will be inheriting a church that is a lot more global than the previous church for, you know, most of its history. The Vatican, for instance, produced European popes. You know, Pope Francis already marked a break in the past because he was from South America. And I think we'll see that tendency will increase. I think we'll increasingly see an international church. We have seen a decline in church attendance in Europe, but other parts of the world have become more important for the Catholic Church. In terms of followers, I'm thinking of South America or Africa. So I think the church is evolving, it's transforming. It's going to become less Europe centric and much more global. But that comes with its own set of challenges because there will be parts of the Catholic world that are more liberal and others that are much more conservative. And, you know, taking care of 1.4 billion faithful will be a challenge for anyone.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's all for today. Monday, April 21st. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Francis X Raca and Marcus Walker. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.