Rick Steves Is Tired of Hearing 'Have a Safe Trip'

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal – "Rick Steves Is Tired of Hearing 'Have a Safe Trip'"

Release Date: June 29, 2025

Hosts: Ryan Knutson and Jessica Mendoza

In the June 29, 2025 episode of The Journal, hosts Ryan Knutson and Jessica Mendoza engage in a comprehensive conversation with renowned travel entrepreneur Rick Steves. Filmed live at the Cascade PBS Ideas Festival in Seattle, the episode delves into Steves' perspectives on travel, business resilience, progressive politics, and their intersection in today’s increasingly polarized world.

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1. Traveling with Young Children

Ryan Knutson begins the discussion by addressing a personal concern: traveling to Europe with his nine-month-old son and two-and-a-half-year-old grandson. He seeks Rick Steves' advice on navigating the challenges of family travel.

Rick Steves responds with practical wisdom based on his extensive experience:

“If you've got kids your age and you ask where should we go? I would say to grandma and grandpa’s on the way to the airport.” (04:05)

He emphasizes the value of family travel, suggesting that integrating family time with adventure fosters beautiful parenting and broadens children’s educational horizons:

“If you can afford it and if you're willing to compromise from an adult travel point of view to make it a family occasion, it is beautiful parenting and you will never regret it.” (04:25)

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2. Business Resilience During the Pandemic

The conversation shifts to Steves’ business challenges during the COVID-19 pandemic. Prior to the pandemic, his company was generating $100 million in revenue. However, the onset of COVID-19 in 2020 led to a significant downturn.

Rick Steves discusses the ethical and pragmatic decision to retain his 100-strong staff despite negative revenue:

“But if shareholders were smart, they would understand that when you have a great team of 100 people and suddenly something unpredictable happens and you can't earn any money, you don't want to disband that team.” (05:37)

He attributes his ability to sustain the business through the crisis to having sufficient reserve capital:

“I am so thankful I was able to. I had enough reserve capital to make the payroll through those years.” (05:42)

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3. New Book on the Hippie Trail

Rick Steves unveils his newly published book, which is a reflection on his 1978 journey along the historic Hippie Trail from Istanbul to Kathmandu. This project emerged during the pandemic as he revisited old notebooks and photographs.

Ryan Knutson marvels at the difference in travel experiences between the past and present:

“But it's also just like you can't do a trip like that's just not even possible in today's world.” (07:12)

Steves reflects nostalgically on the adventure of limited information and spontaneous exploration of the era:

“I can have the hippie trail experience. Even in our comfortable age, if you get out of your comfort zone, recognize we can learn more about our home by leaving it and looking at it from a distance.” (08:10)

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4. The Changing Landscape of Travel and Isolationism

Addressing the paradox of increased American travel abroad amidst rising nativism and isolationism, Steves offers a critical perspective on national attitudes.

“Half of America does not travel. Half of America dreams of building walls... What we need to do is build bridges to the other 96% of humanity outside of our country.” (10:53)

He expresses frustration with the prevalent sentiment of fear and isolation, advocating instead for a worldview enriched by travel:

“Fear is for people who don't get out very much.” (12:36)

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5. Political Outspokenness and Its Impact on Business

Rick Steves discusses his increasingly vocal stance on political issues, including his support for marijuana legalization and his endorsement of progressive candidates like Kamala Harris.

Steves explains that his business’s strength allows him to prioritize personal ethics over potential business repercussions:

“I don't make my personal political decisions based on what's good for my business.” (14:17)

He addresses concerns about alienating customers but remains optimistic about the broader impact:

“We take 30,000 Americans on our tours every year. For me, I love the fact... We've got a lot of people that are dealing with some pretty exciting culture shock.” (15:50)

Steves humorously recounts marijuana entrepreneurs attempting to name cannabis strains after him, reinforcing his principled stance against commodifying marijuana:

“I want nothing to do with the Green Rush... it's a very serious issue dealing with racism, mass incarceration...” (18:22)

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6. Bridging Political Divides

Confronting the metaphorical walls between political factions in the U.S., Steves emphasizes the importance of understanding and empathy across divides:

“We have a huge wall in our country between red and blue and it's a metaphorical wall. My challenge is to better understand the people on the other side of our metaphorical wall.” (20:35)

He highlights his efforts to foster dialogue and broaden perspectives among diverse groups of travelers.

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7. Reflections on American Tourism

When prompted about why foreign visitors, particularly Europeans and Canadians, might be deterred from touring America, Steves candidly critiques current American policies:

“I think the only thing that's going to wake America up, sadly, is the equivalent of the cost of eggs... tourism is one of the biggest employers on the planet and the brand of America is something I've long been tuned into.” (21:37)

He expresses a pessimistic view on the future of American tourism, linking it to broader socio-political issues.

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8. Final Thoughts and Personal Insights

In a lightning-fast speed round, Steves shares personal reflections:

• Retirement Plans: (22:58)
  “I just turned 70 and I'm so thankful I found a niche... I'll do it as long as I'm physically able.”

• Frequent Flyer Miles: (23:07)
  Despite being a prolific traveler, Steves abstains from airline loyalty programs, viewing them as unnecessary gimmicks:

  “It's like it's a gimmick to get me to have loyalty to this airline instead of that airline.” (23:57)

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Conclusion

Rick Steves embodies a blend of seasoned travel expertise and progressive advocacy, using his platform to challenge societal norms and encourage a more connected, empathetic world. Through The Journal, listeners gain valuable insights into the interplay between travel, business ethics, and political consciousness, all underscored by Steves' enduring passion for exploration and understanding.

Notable Quotes:

• “Fear is for people who don't get out very much.” – Rick Steves (12:36)

• “If you can afford it and if you're willing to compromise from an adult travel point of view to make it a family occasion, it is beautiful parenting and you will never regret it.” – Rick Steves (04:25)

• “I just turned 70 and I'm so thankful I found a niche... I'll do it as long as I'm physically able.” – Rick Steves (22:58)

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For more insights and updates, follow The Journal on Spotify or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Host]

Today's episode comes to you from the Cascade PBS Ideas Festival in Seattle. Recently, my co host Ryan Knudsen sat down with travel business mogul Rick Steves. In front of a live audience. Steves talks about his business and his progressive politics and how they intersect. You can watch the interview as a video on Spotify.

[Ryan Knudson]

Rick Steves first trip to Europe was in 1969 when he was 14 years old, and he's been addicted to traveling ever since. He parlayed that addiction into one of the most well known travel businesses in the US he's got a line of popular travel guides, he's taken tens of thousands of people on tours around Europe, and he's had a travel show on PBS since the 1990s. Rick Steves has built a philosophy around travel as a political act, an act that fosters understanding, challenges stereotypes, and in his words, fights xenophobia. At the same time, something strange is happening. Travel has never been easier. But while record numbers of Americans are now traveling abroad, the US Is also becoming more nativist and more isolationist. So what does Rick Steves make of this contradiction? Are people just traveling the wrong way? And do people even need a Rick Steves in the age of smartphones and artificial intelligence? Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business, business and power. I'm Ryan Knudson. Coming up on the show, a conversation with Rick Steves.

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[Ryan Knudson]

So I'm as we've been talking about and everybody in the green room knows I'm on parental leave right now and my nine month old son is here, hopefully sleeping with Jake with the babysitter right now. But when they reached out to have a conversation with you, I was like, I have to do this. And because I'm on parental leave, I felt like the first question that I have to ask you is about my own upcoming trip, which is my wife and I are taking our nine month old and his older brother, who's two and a half, to Europe this summer. It's a very controversial thing to do to travel with small children. So what's your take?

[Rick Steves]

Well, I had 20 years of experience with traveling with our kids.

[Ryan Knudson]

Yes.

[Rick Steves]

And they were the same ages as yours, two and a half years apart or something like that. And my big advice, if you've got kids your age and you ask where should we go? I would say to grandma and grandpas on the way to the airport.

[Ryan Knudson]

You know, I mean, yeah, they're right there, Grandma and grandpa.

[Rick Steves]

There you go. Honestly, I would say if you've got two week vacation, have a week with the kids that have fun forest here and then have a week of adult travel in Europe. Having said that, we never did that. We took our kids Europe every spring. We took our kids out of school throughout the grade school years in April and they had a better education in Europe. And I am so committed to the idea that if you can afford it and if you're willing to compromise from an adult travel point of view to make it a family occasion, it is beautiful parenting and you will never regret it. I really believe if everybody traveled before they could vote, this world would be a much more stable and just and beautiful place.

[Ryan Knudson]

Well, I want to talk about that, but before I do, I want to talk a little bit about business, given that we are primarily a business show. So before the pandemic in 2019, you had $100 million in revenue and then how many years of zero revenue? Just 20. 20. 2020.

[Rick Steves]

Well, throughout the pandemic, we had negative revenue because we had 100 people on the payroll and no income.

[Ryan Knudson]

And you kept them on the payroll too?

[Rick Steves]

Yes, we did.

[Ryan Knudson]

But as a private business, you know, you don't have the pressure from shareholders to other than yourself to we don't.

[Rick Steves]

Have the pressure from shareholders. But if shareholders were smart, they would understand that when you have a great team of 100 people and suddenly something unpredictable happens and you can't earn any money, you don't want to disband that team. You'll need that team when you get back into normalcy again. That's the pragmatic wisdom of keeping your staff together. But I think it's also just an ethical thing to do. For 30 years I had been making money off of my hard working, mission driven staff and for three years I'm not making money off of them. Well, you know, that's part of being a good businessman. And I just think I'm so thankful I was able to. I had enough reserve capital to make the payroll through those years. That's a lot of payroll. 100 people for two years or three years. But right now, looking back at it, I'm just. It was sabbatical for everybody and you know, thank God we're back on board and life is good.

[Ryan Knudson]

Yeah. You recently published a book on the hippie trail, which is just your Notebook basically from 1978 when you were 23 years old going from Istanbul to Kathmandu, which you discovered during the pandemic. We were all looking for things to spend our time with. I was binge watching Rick Steves shows so I can have some escapism. You were looking through your notebooks and reminiscing on old times. But one of the things that really struck me in your book was how you said that you packed enough film to take nine photos a day.

[Rick Steves]

Right.

[Ryan Knudson]

And I thought to myself, wow, I take nine photos a minute when I'm traveling.

[Rick Steves]

I'm old enough to know that I just have that memory that you would never go, click, click, and I'll do another one. Click. Because you had nine a day. Because you had 36 in a canister and you're on the road for 70 days and you already have 20% of your packing light bag filled with film canisters. You have divided out, you know, 20 rolls times 36 divided by how many days. And that must have. If I did my arithmetic correct, it must have been nine a day.

[Ryan Knudson]

Yeah. I don't know if you fact checked yourself there at the end, but. But it's also just like you can't. A trip like that's just not even possible in today's world where you were going around, you were writing about how you're on the bus and you don't really know much about where you're going, you're asking people that are sitting next to you, do you know anything about where we're headed and what we can do and get there? And it was just, you're flying by the seat of your pants. But now, I mean, that era is gone. Or do you think there's still ways you can find that kind of magic?

[Rick Steves]

Ryan, you're. You're talking about an age when there was not a glut of information. There was not enough good travel information in 1978, when I did this, and when you leave Istanbul and head east, for me, it was like going behind the dark side of the moon. It was an adventure. You can't do that adventure today. But the takeaway from my hippie trail book is that, okay, I'm 23 years old, 1978, having the. Doing the ultimate road trip on the last year, by the way, that you could do it before the shah fell and Khomeini came in in Iran and before the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan the next year. So that was the end of the hippie trail. It was the perfect time in my life, the perfect time to do the hippie trail. And I journaled it with a 60,000 word intimate journal. And I documented with all these photographs. I mean, it was just like 50, 45 years later. It's just dying to be a book. And I didn't even know I had it until Covid and then I remembered I have this journal. But about, can you do that now? The takeaway is you can't do the physical trip, but you can have the hippie trail experience. Even in our comfortable age, if you get out of your comfort zone, recognize we can learn more about our home by leaving it and looking at it from a distance. And when serendipity knocks, you say yes. And I am inspired by people who are in their 20s now that are having a hippie trail experience by doing that real travel. And that's the fundamental decision travelers have to make is am I just gonna do the bucket list thing, or am I gonna do let's explore the world and lose ourselves in it? And I just love. That's our mission. Where I work is to equip and inspire Americans to venture beyond Orlando. That's it.

[Ryan Knudson]

When was the last time you were in Orlando?

[Rick Steves]

I stay away from Orlando. I don't think they like me there. I was doing some.

[Ryan Knudson]

Their slogan just must be, Rick Steves is wrong.

[Rick Steves]

No, no, no. Here's the deal. Go to Disney World four or five times, but then try Portugal.

[Ryan Knudson]

Well, so as I was mentioning earlier, more Americans are traveling abroad now than they ever have before. There's a Pew study out not too long ago that said that 76% of Americans have left the country once. Half of Americans have traveled to between one and four countries. And yet we're seeing in the US over the last several years this America first political shift. Isolationism. People are becoming more nationalistic. Are people traveling wrong?

[Rick Steves]

Well, I think the people that are traveling are the people that probably don't need to travel as much as the people who are not traveling.

[Ryan Knudson]

Mm.

[Rick Steves]

Half of America does not travel. Half of America dreams of building walls. The takeaway when you travel is you realize how it is folly to think that you'll be safer if you build walls. If you build walls, you're planting the seeds of instability and danger for your society. And what we need to do is build bridges to the other 96% of humanity outside of our. Outside of our country. And that's just a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing from an ethical point of view and a love your neighbor point of view. And it's also a beautiful thing from just a pragmatic security point of view. It is so tragic to think that we can be safer by withdrawing from the world. We are the most fearful. I'm just so tired of hearing people say, have a safe trip. When somebody tells me, have a safe trip, I'm inclined to say, well, you have a safe. Because where I am traveling statistically, and I know statistics are optional these days, but where I'm traveling statistically is safer than where you're staying. Americans live in a very dangerous place, you see. So I lament the loss of bon voyage. Remember, if you're old enough when people used to say, bon voyage, have a great trip. When I went on the most dangerous trip of my life, hippy trail, it was bon voyage. And I came home with a broader perspective, on track to have a very fulfilling life. That was a beautiful, beautiful experience. Fear is for people who don't get out very much.

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[Ryan Knudson]

You've, you've gotten more attention or become more outspoken in recent years about your political views, which you've been talking about a little bit so far. You endorsed Kamala Harris for president. You're pretty outspoken as an advocate for the legalization of marijuana. How has that affected your business to be more outspoken about politics?

[Rick Steves]

I guess I've gotten to the point where my business is strong enough that I don't make my personal political decisions based on what's good for my business. I remember when we were getting into the Gulf War and I just didn't believe that this was the right thing for our country to do. And I put up a peace sign outside of my office in Edmonds and I was across the street, just walking down the street from my office and a man, hey, Rick, I bet you if you realized how much that peace sign was costing your business, you would have thought twice about putting it up. And it occurred to me, really, you would support a war you don't believe in for what's good for your business? That honestly did not even register to me that that was an option for a person with any ethics at all to support a war by calculating how it would impact its business. And now I've, you know, been advocate, I've been an outspoken advocate about how racist and non productive and wrong minded and against civil liberties our prohibition against marijuana is, for example. And I'm bringing home a European sensibility to that because in Europe, a joint's about as exciting as a can of beer, you know, and they, it's a laughable thing in Europe that they would lock anybody up for smoking marijuana. Well, every once in a while I'll meet somebody while I'm out giving a talk and they say, Rick, we know what you think about marijuana and we're not gonna take your tours and we're not gonna use your guidebooks. And all I can think is Europe's gonna be more fun without you.

[Ryan Knudson]

But so do you feel like you have alienated part of a potential customer base?

[Rick Steves]

No. Well, okay. Does the openness that I don't believe President Trump is good for America, does that alienate people from going on my tours? That would be the immediate question, I suppose. I don't think. I think people, when they want to go to Europe, they want good information, and my information is so good that they will just hold their nose and consume it, you know, because we get a lot of people all across the political spectrum taking our tours. We take 30,000Americans on our tours every year. We have 100 busloads of Americans in Europe today at the same time, all over Europe. And for me, I love the fact, not that we've got a bunch of progressive people that love their escargot having a good time, but we've got a lot of people that are dealing with some pretty exciting culture shock, who are having their fears challenged and their sensibilities challenged by other societies that have the same challenges, that are addressing those challenges differently and in some cases, better. So, for me, the most profitable person on my tour bus would be the more conservative person that's going to have a more broadening experience. So I rally my guides. I've got 100 Europeans who are guides for me. And they say, it's complicated when we have MAGA people on our bus. Hey, this is what it's all about, is to. Everybody wants to better. I think everybody wants to understand the world better. And here's our opportunity. It's a golden opportunity to help people come home with a little broader perspective. And long story short, if my political outspokenness has had an impact on my business, if it's scared away a few people, that has more than been mitigated by how much of a publicity stunt it's been, because you get more headlines and more. I get far more headlines. But then you sort of legalize marijuana, and all of a sudden, twice as many people are buying your books.

[Ryan Knudson]

Well, it's funny, you know, I was asking people, I was like, I'm interviewing Rick Steves, like, what should I ask him about? Everyone's like, ask him about marijuana.

[Rick Steves]

Yeah.

[Ryan Knudson]

Have you thought about getting into the marijuana business in some fashion?

[Rick Steves]

I've had so many marijuana entrepreneurs want to name a strain of cannabis after me.

[Ryan Knudson]

And, like, what?

[Rick Steves]

As a matter of principle, I want nothing to do with the Green Rush, you know, and actually, that's been a good decision from a business point of view, because the cannabis industry's in terrible straits right now.

[Ryan Knudson]

But what are Some of the names that people have pitched to you?

[Rick Steves]

I don't, I have no idea for those strains.

[Ryan Knudson]

Uh huh. Yeah. Rick Sativa, Something like that.

[Rick Steves]

Yeah, something like that. Rick, Rick, Steve Viva. I don't know. But for me it's easy to joke about marijuana but for me it is a very serious issue dealing with racism, mass incarceration, stoking a black market that enriches and empowers gangs and organized crime rather than provides a highly regulated industry that employs people. And fundamentally it's against our civil liberties. So I give talks all over the country about marijuana and I can as a business person, as a Christian, as a parent, as somebody who would be kind of surprised. What do you really think about that? I have no problem saying I work hard all day long. If I go home, I'm a tax raising, churchgoing grandkid, adoring, hardworking American citizen. I have every right to just smoke a joint and stare at the fireplace for three hours because that is my civil liberty. Now do I have a right to sell it to a minor or get high and go drive? Of course not. Throw the book at me. But it's a principled civil liberty stance and it's one of those things that I can. I just love taking home sensibilities from my travels. That's just one of the beautiful values of travel.

[Ryan Knudson]

Have you thought about traveling more within the United States? Because one of the things that people. There's a lot of, there's a big divide. Speaking of bridges that need to be built between the left and the right and people, I think you'd self describe yourself as a coastal elite, well traveled but a lot of people on the right feel very talked down to and very paternalistic and so.

[Rick Steves]

No, it's absolutely true. And that's something I need to work on lately. Ryan, I've been thinking a lot about walls. I'm fascinated by walls. The Berlin Wall, the wall in Belfast between Protestants and Catholics, the wall in the Holy Land. There are physical walls and there are metaphorical walls. We have a huge wall in our country between red and blue and it's a metaphorical wall. And my challenge is to better understand the people on the other side of our metaphorical wall. When I give a. I've been talking at rallies lately and I don't wear blue. I specifically wear purple.

[Ryan Knudson]

Foreign visitors to the US are declining pretty significantly, I think. I think Canada might be the number one decline year over year. Would you give your best Rick Steves pitch for why people should come to America as a Tourist.

[Rick Steves]

To be honest, if somebody asked me, should I go to. If they're European or Canadian, should I go to America? I'd say no.

[Ryan Knudson]

Why?

[Rick Steves]

Because we should pay the price for our policies. You know, I think the only thing that's going to wake America up, sadly is the equivalent of the cost of eggs. You know, I mean, I would not vote and I'm privileged. I've got enough money to pay triple for the eggs and I'll still have my omelet, you know, but it is so fundamental, the values that are on the line for us right now. I think we're going to, we're going to pay a stage many realms and one of them will be tourism. Tourism is one of the biggest employers on the planet and the brand of America is something I've long been tuned into. The brand of America is something for real. And with Obama, America was cool and people wanted to consume America. They wanted to wear America today. Do you think people want to consume and wear America? I don't think so. And it's going to just get worse.

[Ryan Knudson]

We have one minute left. I want to do a little speed round, so as quick answers as you can possibly come up with. Have you thought about retirement?

[Rick Steves]

I just turned 70 and I'm so thankful I found a niche and I've been doing the same thing with laser focus where I've meant to be and I'm having more fun than ever.

[Ryan Knudson]

Most people travel when they retire, so what would you do?

[Rick Steves]

I just, I'm like, I spend 100 days a year in Europe working on my guidebooks, working on my TV shows and helping my tour program. It's like breathing straight oxygen. So I don't know what I. I'm out of balance. I'm just a hopeless case. I just love doing my work and I'll do it as long as I'm physically able. It's a big turn on for me.

[Ryan Knudson]

Perhaps the most astonishing thing I learned about you when I was doing this research was that you do not participate in any airline frequent flyer mile programs, which I thought has got to be the biggest loss of value for you. You must be a million miler many times over.

[Rick Steves]

I have no idea. But I'm in such a good mood when I go to the airport. I don't want to remember whatever you have to do to get your frequent flyer miles.

[Ryan Knudson]

Nothing, Nothing. You just sign up for it.

[Rick Steves]

I don't even want to be. I don't even want to think about it. It's like it's a gimmick to get me to have loyalty to this airline instead of that airline. And it pollutes my whole. I don't, I can't explain it, so I don't defend it very well.

[Ryan Knudson]

But as a frugal traveler, I will say I think you're missing out on some opportunities. We've got to wrap up, though. But there are people that built their.

[Rick Steves]

Careers on getting miles.

[Ryan Knudson]

Yeah, the points guy, you know, you can do the.

[Rick Steves]

Yeah, but I'm the.

[Ryan Knudson]

No, the points guy will be pulling his hair.

[Rick Steves]

What are you doing, Rick? I'm the travel guy.

[Ryan Knudson]

All right. Thanks, everybody, so much. It's been great.

[Rick Steves]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Host]

That's all for today. Sunday, June 29. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.