Stop Making Cents: The End of the Penny

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal - "Stop Making Cents: The End of the Penny"

Episode Details:

• Title: Stop Making Cents: The End of the Penny
• Release Date: June 2, 2025
• Hosts: Ryan Knutson and Jessica Mendoza
• Production: The Wall Street Journal & Gimlet, in partnership with Spotify

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Journal, hosts Jessica Mendoza and Ryan Knutson delve into the impending retirement of the penny in the United States. Titled "Stop Making Cents: The End of the Penny," the discussion explores the historical significance, economic implications, and cultural sentiments surrounding the humble one-cent coin.

---

Reminiscing the Penny's Legacy

[00:08] Jessica Mendoza opens the episode with a heartfelt remembrance of the penny, inviting their finance expert, Oyen Adedoyan, to reflect on its legacy.

[00:15] Oyen Adedoyan nostalgically describes the penny as "small but mighty," highlighting its pervasive presence in everyday life and even its symbolic journey to Mars. He metaphorically places the penny in various overlooked corners of our lives, emphasizing its long-standing role across generations.

Notable Quote:

“Penny was small but mighty. She inspired so many, she touched so many, she traveled so far.”
— Oyen Adedoyan [00:15]

---

The Historical Journey of the Penny

The conversation shifts to the historical origins of the penny. Oyen traces its inception to the Coinage Act of 1792, which established the Philadelphia Mint and introduced the first pennies featuring Lady Liberty. This design choice distinguished American sovereignty from British monarchal symbols.

In 1909, the penny underwent a significant transformation by featuring Abraham Lincoln, a figure deeply ingrained in American history. Oyen asserts that this version of the penny has garnered widespread affection and serves as a symbol of the nation's enduring legacy.

Notable Quote:

“The penny was born out of the coinage act of 1792... she represents Lady Liberty.”
— Oyen Adedoyan [03:06]

---

Rising Production Costs and Material Shifts

The discussion transitions to the economic challenges associated with producing pennies. Originally composed almost entirely of copper, the rising cost of this metal prompted the US Mint in the 1980s to switch to a zinc core coated with copper to mitigate expenses. Despite this change, production costs continued to escalate.

[04:47] Oyen highlights that by 2006, the cost to produce a single penny surpassed its face value, marking a critical turning point. The following year, the cost of production had risen to 4 cents per penny, resulting in the Mint incurring an $85 million loss in penny production alone.

Notable Quote:

“In 2006 was really a turning point for the penny... the cost of the penny was costing more than it was worth to make.”
— Oyen Adedoyan [04:27]

---

The Wasteful Fate of Pennies

Jessica Mendoza and Oyen discuss the widespread waste associated with pennies. Pennies frequently end up discarded in places like furniture cushions, fountains, and laundry machines. A visit to a waste management facility revealed that Americans dispose of approximately $68 million worth of coins annually, with a significant portion being pennies.

Notable Quote:

“Americans throw away about $68 million worth of coins a year.”
— Oyen Adedoyan [05:37]

---

Governmental Acknowledgment and Political Actions

The government's awareness of the penny's issues is chronicled, referencing efforts during the Obama administration to explore cost-reduction measures and alternative materials. However, legislative inertia prevented substantive changes.

With the advent of the Trump administration, the focus intensified on eliminating governmental waste, leading President Trump to direct the Treasury to stop minting pennies. He stated on Truth Social:

Notable Quote:

“Far too long, the United States has minted pennies which literally cost us more than 2 cents. This is so wasteful.”
— President Trump via Oyen Adedoyan [07:28]

Oyen clarifies that while the President can halt production, Congress holds the authority to officially abolish the penny from circulation. Nevertheless, the Treasury's decision marks a decisive step towards phasing out the coin.

---

Phase-Out Plan and Future Projections

The US Mint has initiated the phase-out process by placing its last order of blanks—the metal discs for coinage. Currently, existing pennies remain legal tender, but projections indicate that the supply will be exhausted by early next year.

Notable Quote:

“The mint has placed its last order... they're estimating that they're going to officially run out of pennies by early next year.”
— Oyen Adedoyan [08:48]

---

Opposition: The Case for Keeping the Penny

The episode features Mark Weller, Executive Director of Americans for Common Sense, advocating for the penny's retention. His arguments encompass both practical and sentimental reasons:

1. Cash Transactions: The importance of physical cash, especially for those without access to digital payment methods.
2. Security: Cash transactions are immune to digital hacking threats.
3. Cultural Attachment: Nostalgia and the symbolic value of saving pennies resonate with many Americans.

Notable Quote:

“Cash is king. It's useful during natural disasters. And also millions of Americans don't have access to credit cards or bank accounts.”
— Mark Weller [09:27]

---

Economic Implications of Eliminating the Penny

A central debate explores the economic consequences of removing the penny:

• Rounding Mechanism: Without pennies, cash transactions must round to the nearest five cents. Mark Weller warns that businesses, driven by profit motives, will likely round up, disadvantaging consumers and potentially contributing to inflation.

  Notable Quote:

  “Businesses have an incentive to maximize profits... So the rounding is a big, big problem. And consumers lose in that scenario.”
  — Mark Weller [10:27]

• Cost of Nickels: Eliminating pennies would increase reliance on nickels, which already cost 14 cents to produce, resulting in a 9-cent loss per nickel.

  Notable Quote:

  “The nickel now costs 14 cents, so we're going to be losing 9 cents on every nickel that we make.”
  — Mark Weller [12:04]

• International Precedents: Countries like Australia and Switzerland have phased out low-denomination coins, experiencing increased nickel production costs without significant savings.

---

Cultural and Psychological Impact

The potential shift in consumer behavior and pricing strategies is examined. Oyen Adedoyan ponders whether iconic pricing schemes, such as items ending in 99 cents, will need rebranding to align with the absence of pennies.

Notable Quote:

“There's some kind of psychology in seeing something ending with 99 cents over like a round number.”
— Oyen Adedoyan [14:03]

Furthermore, Jessica Mendoza raises a tongue-in-cheek concern:

[13:22] Jessica: “I'm thinking, does this mean that we won't be able to buy anything for 1999 anymore? Is this the end of the 1999 nine?”

---

The Road to a Cashless Future

Oyen reflects on the evolving relationship between Americans and physical currency. As digital transactions rise, the penny's obsolescence may signal the beginning of a broader transition towards a cashless society. The pandemic accelerated this shift, diminishing the role of coins in daily transactions.

Notable Quote:

“This move to kind of end the penny is the first battle towards a potential cashless future.”
— Oyen Adedoyan [14:48]

---

Conclusion

As the United States approaches the end of an era with the penny's retirement, the episode underscores the intricate balance between economic practicality and cultural sentiment. While the phase-out aims to reduce governmental waste and production costs, the reaction from consumers and businesses will shape the future landscape of American currency.

Final Thoughts: The retirement of the penny encapsulates broader themes of modernization, economic efficiency, and the enduring attachment to tangible symbols of national identity. As The Journal aptly concludes, the full impact of this change remains to be seen, marking a pivotal moment in the nation's financial evolution.

---

Additional Reporting By: Joseph Pisani and Ken Thomas
Credits: The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.

Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

So, oyin, I wonder if you could just say a few words about the dearly departed today.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Yeah. Penny was small but mighty. She inspired so many, she touched so many, she traveled so far. I mean, at one point she was in Mars, but she's also found her way into our homes between our couch cushions. You know, two of her gave us permission to share our thoughts. So she's really been with us, many of us, for our whole lives, you know, or generations even.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It's a loss indeed. How do you think the penny will be remembered?

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Maybe in our piggy banks or in the pockets of those jeans that we forgot to, you know, wash. Maybe in a washer dryer somewhere, abandoned, a little dusted.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Some fountains that forget have never been cleaned.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

At the bottom of some fountains.

[Jessica Mendoza]

My colleague Oyen Adedoyan covers personal finance. And we're reminiscing on the penny because the treasury has announced that after decades of debate, it's going to stop minting the $0.01 coin. Reminding us of that old adage, change is constant, even for, well, change. Oyeon, what is this story really about to you?

[Oyen Adedoyan]

The story is interestingly about the simple debate of practicality over sentimentality. The penny has gone from a symbol of freedom, in some cases frugality and hard work, to a sign of America's wastefulness. The penny is kind of like that baby blanket that you had as a kid that maybe, you know, a grandparent or someone got for you. And it's followed you around for decades. And now we're at the point where we're saying goodbye.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Time to let it go.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Exactly.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, June 2nd. Coming up on the show, saying goodbye to the penny. The penny has been around for over 200 years. It's almost as old as the United States itself.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

The penny was born out of the coinage act of 1792, and that act established the Philadelphia Mint, which is where pennies were made. And a little over a year after that, 11,000 pennies rolled their way into circulation. And they looked a lot different than what they look like today. They were a little bit larger and they had a woman on the front. She's supposed to represent Lady Liberty. She had this windblown hair and it was kind of the country's way of establishing itself from Great Britain. And it was pretty significant that we didn't have like a monarch or a leader on the penny at the time, you know, contrary to Great Britain.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Right. What else could you do? To sort of solidify your status as a nation than to say, like, hey, King George, we don't need your face on our coinage anymore. We have our own thing going.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Yeah. And then, of course, in 1909, Abraham Lincoln started to appear on the penny. And I feel like that's the penny that we all know and love today. And, I mean, for a lot of people who love the penny, and I've had the pleasure of speaking with a lot of those people recently, they see it as this symbol of American history.

[Jessica Mendoza]

For most of its history, the penny was made almost entirely of copper. But then copper got more expensive. So in the 1980s, in an effort to cut production costs, the US Mint switched to zinc, which, which is cheaper, and then coated those pennies in copper. Regardless, the costs of making the penny kept rising.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

2006 was really a turning point for the penny. 2006 was the first year that the mint realized that the penny was costing more than it was worth to make. So the cost of the penny had officially surpassed 1 cent by that point. And especially in recent years, the cost of making a penny, you know, the materials that go into making it, that zinc, is rising. Last year, there was a 20% rise in making the penny.

[Jessica Mendoza]

These days, the government spends almost 4 cents to make just one penny. And last year, The Mint lost $85 million on the pennies that it produced. And all of this for a coin that, like, as we were saying earlier, winds up in places that aren't transactional at all, like fountains and Jean pockets.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Right, Jess? I couldn't believe in the idea that people were just throwing away coins, But I actually went to a waste management facility for a story where they were trying to recycle the thrown away and damaged coins that ended up in their plant. And so they had this whole operation where they were literally finding coins, many of them pennies in the dirt and in the trash and washing them and drying them and returning them to circulation. It turns out Americans throw away about $68 million worth of coins a year.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Wow.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

And one can only imagine how much of those are pennies.

[Jessica Mendoza]

All that waste hasn't gone unnoticed for years. The government has acknowledged the penny problem.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

The Obama administration, for one, was exploring ways to make the penny cheaper and do some kind of investigation and research into what different materials could do that without changing too much about the penny, including its weight and the way that it looked.

[President Obama]

It's one of those things where I think people get attached emotionally to the way things have been.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In 2013, President Obama was asked about Getting rid of the penny during a livestream on YouTube.

[President Obama]

But the penny is an example of something that I need legislation for. And frankly, given all the big issues that we have to deal with day in, day out, a lot of times it just doesn't, you know, we're not able to get to it.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The penny lived on, and then President Trump returned to office and said he wanted to cut what he considers waste in the government. In February, Trump took aim at the penny on social media. President Trump posting on Truth Social, saying he's directing the treasury to stop minting.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

New pennies, citing the cost of producing the $0.01 coin. He says for far too long, the United States has minted pennies which literally cost us more than 2 cents. This is so wasteful.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Can Trump buy himself kills a penny?

[Oyen Adedoyan]

That was the conversation following his social media post. Right. Like, Dan, does the President have the power to kill the penny? Can he actually do this? And according to professors who study this and have written books on this, Congress is the only one with the authority to actually abolish a coin. Right? Like rid a coin from circulation. But the President and the Department of Treasury can stop production of a coin if they deem it necessary. And that seems to be what's happening now.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The plan to phase out the penny has been put in motion. The mint has placed its last order of blanks, those metal discs that coins are pressed onto, and those will be the last pennies put into circulation. You'll still be able to use the pennies you have. They're still considered legal tender. Changing that is up to Congress. But ultimately the penny is on its way out. It's all out of luck.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

It seems like with that supply and the remaining supply of pennies that they have left to put in circulation, they're estimating that they're going to officially run out of pennies by early next year.

[Jessica Mendoza]

But there are still folks out there who haven't given up on the penny. The other side of the coin is after the break. Do you carry change with you all the time?

[Mark Weller]

I do.

[Jessica Mendoza]

How much do you have on you right now?

[Mark Weller]

Okay, give me a second as I go into my pocket.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Well.

[Mark Weller]

I have a quarter and a dime and two pennies.

[Jessica Mendoza]

There you go.

[Mark Weller]

My name is Mark Weller. I'm executive director of Americans for Common Sense.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And that's cents, right? As in C E N T S. Exactly.

[Mark Weller]

Americans for Common Sense is spelled C E N T S.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Americans for Common Sense is a lobbying group that supports keeping the penny. It's partly backed by a company that works with the US Mint to make pennies. And Mark Weller is an advocate for all cash. He says cash is king. It can't be hacked. It's useful during natural disasters. And also millions of Americans don't have access to credit cards or bank accounts. When it comes to the penny, Mark says, there's all kinds of sentimental reasons people want to keep it alive.

[Mark Weller]

We have a lot of support from coin collectors and many of those started collecting pennies when they were younger. There's certainly nostalgia people remember when they were younger of saving pennies and other coins and making a purchase through the saving and what that symbolizes for thrift and the ability of being patient. So I think those all play into the nostalgia and the support for the penny. But ultimately this is really an economic issue.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Mark says getting rid of the penny would mean that cash transactions will have to be rounded to the nearest 5 cents.

[Mark Weller]

If we can agree on one thing, it's that businesses have an incentive to maximize profits. There's no incentive to round down. They're going to round up in most instances, unless there is legislation that directs a rounding scheme on how that should work. But many grocery stores, many convenience stores work on very small margins and those pennies really do add up and it makes a difference. So the rounding is a big, big problem. And consumers lose in that scenario.

[Jessica Mendoza]

If prices across the country are forcibly rounded up even by just a few cents. Mark says that could be inflationary. The treasury disputes that idea, saying in a statement that prices won't rise because they're just as likely to be rounded down in transactions. Another point Mark made is that if businesses and consumers are relying more on 5 cent coins, and that means the mint would have to ramp up production of nickels and it's even more expensive to make a nickel than it is.

[Mark Weller]

To make a penny, the nickel now costs 14 cents, so we're going to be losing 9 cents on every nickel that we make. And we've seen from other countries that have done away with their low denomination coins, more recently with Australia, with Switzerland, that their next denomination coin, their nickel production went up. So you're not actually going to save money.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What if we just get rid of the nickel too? Wouldn't that then save the government money? Because it is, it seems like objectively the country is losing money on making pennies and nickels.

[Mark Weller]

Well, I would hope that wouldn't be the next step, really. I think there's a concern about rounding to the nickel. I would submit that some have said, let's do away with the penny and the nickel. But if you start talking about rounding to a dime, I think you're going to have some significant economic effects and inflation. If you have a transaction, you know, 15 cents and you don't have a nickel and you don't have a penny, it kind of gets you into a slippery slope of rounding to just very, very high numbers.

[Jessica Mendoza]

I asked my colleague Oyen Adedoyan what the practical implications of losing the penny could be for businesses and consumers.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

So according to the treasury, businesses, eventually, once we run out of the pennies in circulation, will have to round up or down to the nearest nickel. Now this could have sales tax implications. So they are encouraging state and local governments to work with their local businesses to maybe draft some guidelines so that, you know, everything is smooth.

[Jessica Mendoza]

I'm thinking, does this mean that we won't be able to buy anything for 1999 anymore? Is this the end of the 1999 nine?

[Oyen Adedoyan]

That's the question. Right. Like the 99 cent sale.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Right.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

I mean, like, will 99 cent stores have to change their names to like 95 cent stores or dollar?

[Jessica Mendoza]

You kind of have to go one way or the other.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Exactly. Like this is. This has some pretty big implications for the way that we view sales. Right. I think there's some kind of psychology in seeing something ending with 99 cents over like a round number.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Right, Right.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

It's kind of a wait and see period for when pennies actually get out of circulation and how people and businesses respond to this change.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So, Oyin, you know, I think you're at this point the Wall Street Journal's penny whisperer. You've covered this for longer than I think most people expect to cover a coin. Why do people care so much about the penny? I mean, it's worth literally worth very little.

[Oyen Adedoyan]

Yeah. One of the things that drew me to the penny beat. Right, right. Was just the fact that I'm a member of Gen Z and I have a lot of peers who look at physical money, like cash and coins as quote, unquote, fake money. Right. It's not real. A lot of our transactions today happen online or with a tap or with a swipe, or even through our phones. So we have much less interaction with cash and coins than maybe our parents did, or definitely our grandparents or even millennials. Or even. Yeah, or even millennial. I mean, the pandemic was a huge culture shift when it came to spending cash because people were afraid to catch anything from a cash exchange with someone. So we are in this post pandemic era where physical cash is kind of becoming more of a novelty for most consumers than something that's essential. And it's really calling into question what the future of our physical coin and cash economy is going to be. To me, this move to kind of end the penny is the first battle towards a potential cashless future.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's all for today. Monday, June 2nd. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Joseph Pisani and Ken Thomas. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.