Tariffs Are Back. What’s Changed?

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Journal. — "Tariffs Are Back. What’s Changed?"

Date: July 27, 2026
Hosts: Jessica Mendoza & Ryan Knutson
Episode Theme:
The episode explores the resurgence of tariffs under President Trump's administration, examining how legal setbacks from the Supreme Court have led to a more methodical and legally durable tariff strategy. Insights from WSJ reporters Gavin Baid and Gabby Bateman unravel the mechanics, motives, and potential consequences of this new wave in U.S. trade policy.

---

Main Theme and Purpose

The episode investigates President Trump’s renewed tariff agenda following a major Supreme Court rejection. It chronicles how, despite legal obstacles, the administration constructed a new series of broad tariffs using established trade laws, especially focusing on measures targeting forced labor in global supply chains. The conversation zeroes in on the people, politics, and shifting legal strategies behind these efforts, especially highlighting U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer’s pivotal role.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Supreme Court’s Rejection & Immediate Response

• Background: In February, the Supreme Court struck down most of Trump’s global tariffs based on the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), ruling the President exceeded his authority ([00:40], [00:52]).
• Administration Reaction: "As soon as the Supreme Court ruling happened, you saw senior administration officials...came out and said, no worries. We're just going to find a different tariff authority to rebuild this tariff wall that Trump had put up." — Gabby Bateman ([04:27])
• Transition to New Tariffs: Temporary 10% duties were immediately put in place, lasting 150 days, as officials sought more permanent, legal footing ([04:44]).

2. New Legal Justifications: Section 301 & Section 338

• Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974):
  • Allows tariffs if a country is found to discriminate against US commerce.
  • Requires lengthy investigations, comment periods, and reports, steps the administration raced through to meet legal deadlines ([05:10]).
  • Notable Mechanism: "Instead of really pushing the envelope like they did with IPA tariffs, [Greer] identified a certain issue—forced labor in international supply chains." — Gabby Bateman ([06:34])
  • Courts defer to USTR/administration if proper process is followed ([07:12], [07:56]).
• Section 338 (Tariff Act of 1930):
  • Almost never used before; more flexible, requiring only a 30-day wait after petition before tariffs are imposed ([10:42]-[11:13]).
  • First applied to Canadian goods as a test case—“tiptoeing” into new legal territory and potential for greater tariff nimbleness ([11:54]).

3. Structure of the New Tariffs

• Tariff Tiers:
  • 10% on countries working to reduce forced labor (e.g., Canada, Mexico, EU).
  • 12.5% on countries deemed non-compliant (e.g., China, Japan, South Korea).
  • No clear pathway for any country to reach zero tariffs ([08:01], [08:48]).
  • Many view the “forced labor” rationale as a cover for broader protectionist aims ([08:48]).

4. Economic and Global Impact

• Near-Term Effects: The immediate impact is minor since the existing tariffs already created a similar burden—“this action this week was about achieving continuity in the trade agenda.” — Gabby Bateman ([09:27], [09:42])
• Future Risks: More tariff investigations are pending, including into Chinese overexporting and EU tech fines ([10:00]).
• Canada Dispute: Section 338 used to target $20 billion in Canadian goods, about 5% of Canada’s annual exports to the U.S.; Canada calls move a violation of USMCA ([12:20]).

5. The Rise of Jameson Greer

• From Sideline to Center Stage: Greer, a tough, savvy trade lawyer and Trump administration veteran, became the architect of the new tariff regime after early missteps by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick ([15:05], [15:43], [16:13]).
• Changing Tactics: Under Greer, the approach became less erratic, more thorough, and legally robust ([17:28]).
  • “I think that that's a big reason that you've seen the trade agenda kind of straighten up a little bit and mature into something more legally durable. Because he's just a more careful personality...” — Gabby Bateman ([17:28])

6. Shifting Context and Strategies

• Broader Context: War in Iran, rising oil prices, tech sector volatility, and fears of an AI bubble color the administration’s posture ([17:55]).
• Sensitivity to Economic Impact: This time, the administration is quietly carving out exemptions for price-sensitive goods like food and agriculture ([19:14], [19:22]).
  • “[They] have quietly carved little holes in their tariff agenda for where...customers are really, really price sensitive.” — Gabby Bateman ([19:22])

7. Lessons Learned & What’s Next

• From Aggressive to Methodical: The Trump team, forced by court setbacks, now follows legal processes carefully, balancing their protectionist aims with durability ([20:25]).
• Long-Term Vision: Despite tactical changes, the administration remains committed to the “tariff wall” approach, convinced it will spur domestic manufacturing and economic strength ([19:54], [20:17]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On evolving trade strategies:
  “This is the Jameson Greer Show. When it comes to these tariffs...”
  — Gabby Bateman ([13:15])

• On the rationale for using forced labor as a justification:
  “A lot of people I've spoken to, whether trade lawyers in Washington or certainly foreign dignitaries and officials, view this forced labor justification really as a fig leaf for the true motivation here, which is to rebuild President Trump’s tariff wall.”
  — Gabby Bateman ([08:48])

• On improvements in execution:
  “They can't really fly by the seat of their pants with these tariff announcements...they’re really kind of going more methodically, being more by the book because they've been forced to be.”
  — Gabby Bateman ([20:25])

• Memorable banter on legal minutiae:
  "May we all be as excited as you. Talking about trade law, Gabby Bateman."
  — Jessica Mendoza ([10:35])

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:34] Supreme Court overturns Trump's earlier tariffs
• [01:22] New tariffs announced following court decision
• [04:14] Administration pivots to new legal authorities
• [05:10] Explanation of Section 301 and process required
• [07:56] How the administration checked all legal boxes for new tariffs
• [08:01] Structure and tiers of new tariffs
• [10:27] Introduction of Section 338, a rarely-used trade law
• [12:20] Canada’s response and scope of new Canadian tariffs
• [15:05] Jameson Greer’s background and influence
• [17:55] Changing context: geopolitics, oil, tech
• [19:14] New exemptions carved out for price sensitivity
• [20:25] Lessons from first to second wave of tariffs

---

Summary Table: Legal Authority Timeline

| Legal Authority | Used For | Notable Features | Current Status | |------------------------|----------------------|---------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------| | IEEPA | First Trump tariffs | Broad national security powers; struck down | Overturned by Supreme Court | | Section 301 (1974) | New global tariffs | Requires investigation/reports/comments; tried & tested | Current main authority | | Section 338 (1930) | Canada tariffs | Minimal process, untested for tariffs | Being cautiously tested |

---

Closing Thoughts

The episode provides a clear, timely chronicle of America’s return to large-scale tariffs, stressing how legal and political adaptation enables continued pursuit of protectionist goals. It underscores the evolving roles of regulators, the shifting legal landscape, and the broader economic context shaping trade decisions—all spearheaded by a more careful, deliberate leadership style.

---

Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

Live from New York, it's the Journal.

[Jess]

That's right. Jess and I are back with another live show in New York City, this time on Wednesday, September 9th.

[Jessica Mendoza]

We're gonna be at City Winery for an evening of sharp reporting, insider conversation and special guests.

[Jess]

And probably wine.

[Jessica Mendoza]

I hope so. Either way, you won't wanna miss it.

[Jess]

Tickets are on sale now. Check out the link in our show notes.

[Gavin Baid]

See.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Last February, President Trump's trade agenda took a big hit.

[Gavin Baid]

The Supreme Court struck down most of President Trump's global tariffs today in a 6 to 3 decision that the case

[Commercial Advertisement Voice]

revolves around the president's use of the

[Jessica Mendoza]

International Emergency Economic powers Act of 19.

[Gabby Bateman]

The court ruled that they were going to strike down large portions of the administration's global tariff plan, finding that the president exceeded his authority.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That could have been the end of Trump's tariff ambitions. But it turns out it was only

[Gabby Bateman]

a bump in the road, really. After five months of relative calm, the tariff agenda is back.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Our colleague Gavin Baid covers trade and economics.

[Gabby Bateman]

President Trump last week unveiled tariffs on virtually all U.S. trading partners. These came into effect to replace the tariffs that the Supreme Court had thrown out in February.

[Jessica Mendoza]

These new tariffs are pretty sweeping. They target products coming from more than 80 countries, countries that the Trump administration says don't have strong enough enforcement against forced labor.

[Gabby Bateman]

It just so happens that he thinks almost every trading ally, every trading partner that we have is not really, you know, enforcing prohibitions on forced labor on their books. Now, this really comes as news to the UK or Australia or the entire European Union, all of whom. We don't allow goods with forced labor. We're not pro slavery. But what the Trump administration has said is that, well, they're not doing enough to enforce the laws on their books.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What do these new tariffs signal about Trump's trade agenda?

[Gabby Bateman]

I think that they signal that Trump's trade agenda is kind of growing up a little bit and becoming a bit more mature. Now you see them kind of using a section of law that is much more tried and tested and is much more likely to withstand legal scrutiny.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, July 27th. Coming up on the show, Trump's tariffs make a comeback.

[Accenture Sponsor Voice]

This episode is presented by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales using automation, analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations. More time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn [e-mail] Spotify this message is brought

[Mariner Sponsor Voice]

to you by Mariner. You've built your book. You've built your reputation. Now you're ready to build more. With Mariner, you're ready to experience less friction and grow with more momentum. You're ready for a model designed to help you spend more time with clients. You're ready for the green light to advise your way. You're ready for Mariner financial planning, management and solutions. Take the next step in your career@join mariner.com.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Though the Supreme Court rejected the old tariffs, Trump was not deterred.

[Mariner Sponsor Voice]

Their decision is incorrect, but it doesn't matter because we have very powerful alternatives that have been approved by this decision.

[Gabby Bateman]

As soon as the Supreme Court ruling happened, you saw senior administration officials, whether Treasury Secretary Scott Besant or U.S. trade Representative Jameson Greer, they came out and said, no worries. We're just going to find a different tariff authority to rebuild this tariff wall that Trump had put up.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The Trump administration quickly replaced the illegal IPA tariffs with a new set of temporary tariffs. Those temporary duties, 10% across the board, could stay in place for 150 days. In the meantime, officials with the U.S. trade Representative, the USTR, and the Commerce Department got to work. Their goal was to find more permanent ways to reinstate the president's tariff regime.

[Gabby Bateman]

If you think back to the first round of tariffs, they were based on this law, the International Emergency Economic Powers act, the IEEPA statute. It had never been used for tariffs before, and it really was kind of a long shot that the courts would uphold that tariff authority in any case. Right. And so what they did was they dusted off a different part of trade law that is much more tried and tested. This is called Section 301 of the Trade act of 1974. What it allows the president to do is impose tariffs on another country if the president finds that they are discriminating against US Commerce or US Firms. And what you have to do under this section is be before you impose a tariff, you have to do a really lengthy investigation process. You prepare these reports, you do a bunch of economic analysis, you allow industry and labor unions time to comment.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Gavin says these investigations into unfair or discriminatory trading practices typically take years. But with the temporary tariffs set to expire last week, the Trump administration had to move quickly.

[Gabby Bateman]

And they got it done just in the nick of time on Friday, put out the new tariffs. So there wasn't a gap in the tariff authorities there. So they crushed this one down into just a few months and were able to kind of get it right in under the line there.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And what exactly did the Trump administration look into for this investigation? What are they alleging?

[Gabby Bateman]

So I think it's quite clever, really, what U.S. trade Representative Jameson Greer has done. Instead of really pushing the envelope like they did with IPA tariffs, he's identified a certain issue. This is forced labor in international supply chains.

[Gavin Baid]

The United States has had on the books this law where we prohibit the import of goods made in whole or in part with forced labor, and we enforce it rigorously. Other countries, most don't have it. Those that do, don't enforce it.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It sounds like under section 301, it could have been any issue that discriminated against the US Right. Like, was there a reason that this was the issue that they landed on?

[Gabby Bateman]

Well, he says that is because it's really an important issue for him and the president. And you know what? I don't. I don't doubt that Ambassador Greer really does care about forced labor. He's talked about this before. This is something that, you know, he has worked on. There are, you know, elements of the USMCA agreement that he helped negotiate in the first term that, you know, have to do with forced labor and supporting labor rights. The courts give a lot of deference to a policymaking agency like USTR when they are determining what discrimination is, right? They're not gonna want to opine on what actually is discrimination and what isn't. They're just gonna see. Did you follow the process? Did you consult with Congress? Did you with stakeholders? Did you write a report? Did you take comments into account? And it appears that they have done all of that.

[Commercial Advertisement Voice]

They've checked all those boxes.

[Gabby Bateman]

They've checked all those boxes.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Under this new tariff regime, there are two rates, 10% and 12.5%. The 10% tariffs apply to more than a dozen trading partners that the US Says are already working to reduce forced labor in supply chains. These include Canada, Mexico, and the European Union. The 12.5% tariffs target more than 40 nations, including China, Japan, and South Korea. The Trump administration says these countries lack sufficient legal prohibitions against products made with forced labor. Those countries can have their tariff rate brought down to 10% if they prove they're fighting forced labor through some kind of policy or legislation. Is there a way for a country to get, like, to zero tariffs under this?

[Gabby Bateman]

That's a very good question, and that's something that reporters sought to ask senior administration officials last week when this was Announced. And you know what? They were pretty cagey on this. They did not say that there was any way for a country to get to zero. Right. A lot of people I've spoken to, whether trade lawyers in Washington or certainly foreign dignitaries and officials, view this forced labor justification really as a fig leaf for the true motivation here, which is to rebuild President Trump's tariff wall.

[Jessica Mendoza]

What do you expect the impact of these new tariffs will be on the US Economy and on economies around the world?

[Gabby Bateman]

Yeah, I think that the effect is gonna be pretty muted in the short term. Right. Remember, There was a 10% across the board tariff in place already, and then it got replaced by a tariff of 10 to 12 and a half percent. So basically the same thing.

[Gavin Baid]

Right.

[Gabby Bateman]

That's a negligible difference. So really, this action this week was about achieving continuity in the trade agenda. And then there are more tariff investigations that are still out there that could stack on top of that in the months to come. So this is by no means a settled issue. This is not the end of the story.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The Trump administration says more tariffs are coming. Trade officials are conducting more investigations under section 301. One of them is looking at whether countries are flooding global markets with exports, which would mainly target China. The US Is also considering an investigation into the European Union for fining American tech companies. But Section 301 isn't the only trade provision that the administration is using for new tariffs.

[Gabby Bateman]

Yes, the new piece on the chessboard. This is fascinating. And has had the trade bar in D.C. aflutter all last week.

[Jessica Mendoza]

May we all be as excited as you. Talking about trade law, Gabby Bateman.

[Gabby Bateman]

This is called Section 338, and it's actually from the Tariff act of 1930. It's almost 100 years old, and it's actually a little more flexible than section 301. You have to kind of initiate an investigation, but you don't have to go through all of the same steps that you do with 301. It's kind of like you just make the petition and then 30 days later, you can impose the tariffs. The thing is, this has never been done before. We have never imposed tariffs under section 338 in the almost 100 years years that it's been on the books.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So the main difference, I mean, sure, there are other, more like detailed differences, but the main difference, big picture between section 338 and 300 one of these two different trade laws is that section 301 has been used as a justification for tariffs before many times. Where section 338 has not precisely. The Trump administration is using section 338 as the basis for new tariffs against Canada, tariffs that target $20 billion worth of Canadian goods such as wine, hockey stick and cement. Still, that's just a fraction of the $380 billion worth of goods that Canada exports to the U.S. every year.

[Gabby Bateman]

So this is kind of them tiptoeing into this, into this new legal jurisdiction and saying, okay, maybe let's test the waters here with a small tariff action, and if we can get that upheld by the courts, then maybe that opens up a new landscape for us. Because although you have to have that 30 day waiting period, it would be more nimble for them to be able to say, you know, dial up and dial down tariffs when they want.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The Trump administration says the move is a response to Canada's, quote, discriminatory treatment of American products. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney said the new tariffs represented, quote, the latest in a series of unilateral U.S. trade actions to violate the USMCA and that Canada had made several detailed proposals to resolve bilateral trade issues, according to a statement released by his office. According to Gavin's reporting, if all of this recent tariff action holds up, it could amount to about the same tariff burden the US Was imposing before the Supreme Court decision, an average of about 17%. Gavin says this reconstruction of Trump's tariff agenda under a new and arguably stronger set of legal justifications can be attributed to one man, U.S. trade Representative Jameson Greer.

[Gabby Bateman]

This is the Jameson Greer Show. When it comes to these tariffs, I

[Gavin Baid]

have great interactions with my counterparts. I talk to them. For us, this is business, this is trade, this is economics. We're looking at bottom lines.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So how did Greer gain so much influence over Trump's trade agenda? That's after the break.

[Commercial Advertisement Voice]

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphya offers self injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self inject Tremphya, proper training is required. Tremphya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection Flu like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about tremphya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tremphyaradio.com.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Even before Trump returned to office, Jamison Greer had been all in on the tariff.

[Gabby Bateman]

Cause I remember when I really realized that, like, oh, Jameson Greer might be U.S. trade representative. This was a few years ago at one of these industry events in Washington. And he was speaking, I think, to an industry audience, Right. I'm in the crowd. And he was telling them, you know, we have the legal authority to do whatever we want to do on tariffs. What we've lacked to this point was the political will to implement it. And if we get back into office, he said, we're gonna have the political will, I can promise you that. And I was just like, he's serious about this. This man is a true believer in what he's doing.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And who is Jameson Greer? Can you tell me a little bit about him?

[Gabby Bateman]

He is a longtime trade lawyer in Washington and a veteran of Trump's first term. He was actually the USTR Chief of Staff to Ambassador Bob Lighthizer, who was the Trade representative under Trump. So he knows the agency. He's very well liked at his agency and is known around D.C. republicans and Democrats all consider him a really hard nosed, smart, tenacious lawyer. But he was kind of pushed to the sideline early in Trump's second term.

[Jessica Mendoza]

When Trump kicked off his second term, he made an unusual move. Typically, tariff policy would be handled by the trade Representative, in this case, Greer. But instead, Trump assigned this major part of his agenda to Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick. And as the first round of tariffs rolled out last year, it was Lutnick, not Greer, who was the face of that effort.

[Gabby Bateman]

That didn't go so well for about a year.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Right.

[Gabby Bateman]

We saw the IPA tariffs they had to put those tariffs on, then they had to take them off. And there was just, there was a lot of bedlam going on in the trade agenda. Right. Lutnick, he made a number of missteps. He would get out in front of the President and say things that the President wasn't ready to announce. He's kind of a bull in the China shop kind of guy. Right. And flash forward to February. The IPA tariffs get thrown out by the Supreme Court. And this is really when it looks like Jameson Greer took the reins of the trade agenda. You see Ambassador greer out on TV multiple times a week. He's running the section 301 tariffs. He's running the talks with Mexico and Canada for usmca.

[Gavin Baid]

We want to make sure that we're targeting these, these unfair trading practices that have led to, frankly, offshoring in the US and an inability to build new factories at times.

[Gabby Bateman]

He's administering the US China Board of Trade. He's doing stuff on critical minerals. I mean, he's got his hands in everything now. And I think that that's a big reason that you've seen the trade agenda kind of straighten up a little bit and mature a little bit into something more legally durable. Because he's just a more careful personality, many people would say, than, you know, the kind of move fast and break things attitude that Lutnick has brought to many of these things.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Trump administration officials said Lutnik has taken a leading role on major trade and investment deals, including pacts with Japan, South Korea and the European Union signed last year. A White House spokesman told the Wall Street Journal the Commerce Department and the U.S. trade Representative oversee different tariff authorities and that Lutnick and Greer play different roles in trade discussions. Greer, in a statement, said he and Lutnick, quote, worked together very closely and constructively to execute the president's trade agenda. A Commerce Department spokesperson said Lutnick works incredibly well with Ambassador Greer and the entire trade team. And it's not just the power dynamics that have shifted. Tariffs are back, but the context is different. There's a war in Iran. Oil prices are on the rise. You've got tech stocks stumbling. There's growing fear of an AI bubble. What could this new context mean for this new tariff strategy? These new tariffs, I think you do

[Gabby Bateman]

see them being a little bit more careful with how broadly they apply these tariffs. For instance, when President Trump first put his IEPA tariffs on in the first year of the second term, there were hardly any exemptions whatsoever. Right. And actually, Secretary Lutnick made a habit of saying, no exemptions, no exceptions. They did not do that.

[Accenture Sponsor Voice]

This time around, as tariffs have rippled

[Jessica Mendoza]

their way through the economy, the Trump administration has made some adjustments.

[Gabby Bateman]

They have quietly carved little holes in their tariff agenda for where, you know, customers are really, really price sensitive. All of this, you know, foodstuffs, for instance, used to be subject to tariffs. Most of food and agricultural goods have been carved out of the global tariffs now. Right. And so I think you see them being quietly sensitive to the price impacts of these tariffs.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So it sounds like the Trump administration really wants to make tariffs work, like they're adjusting the strategy as they go, but they really believe it's a good strategy.

[Gabby Bateman]

They still think that directionally, tariffs are the right way to go and that they're actually going to help the economy. I think a lot of them think that we're right around the corner from a big industrial renaissance here where the tariffs and the investment deals and the tax law all come together to get people building more factories and bring all this industry back to the US

[Jessica Mendoza]

So if you take a step back, what is the difference between the old tariff regime and this new one? What has the administration learned?

[Gabby Bateman]

I think they've learned that they need to be a little more careful. They can't really fly by the seat of their pants with these tariff announcements and their use of US Trade law. Right. They're really kind of going more methodically, being more by the book because they've been forced to be. There's no change in the policy strategy. They still want to have a robust set of tariffs that they think will rebuild the domestic manufacturing sector. And also this allows them to assert themselves as dominant in many of these economic discussions. Right. And they've been much more forceful in pushing US Demands in these trade talks and really holding the US Market as their leverage in those deals. But they are finding that they have to be a little bit more careful in how they implement these things, especially if they want them to stand the test of time. And that, I think, is why you see Ambassador Greer in the driver's seat here.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's all for today. Monday, July 27th. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in today's episode by Matt Grossman. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.