The Fight to Kick Soda Out of Food Stamps

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Fight to Kick Soda Out of Food Stamps

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Journal
• Host/Author: The Wall Street Journal & Gimlet
• Description: The most important stories about money, business, and power. Hosted by Kate Linebaugh and Ryan Knutson, with Jessica Mendoza. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
• Episode: The Fight to Kick Soda Out of Food Stamps
• Release Date: March 7, 2025

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Introduction to the Issue

In the March 7, 2025 episode of The Journal, hosts Jessica Mendoza and Laura Cooper delve into a contentious debate unfolding in Arkansas: the proposal to ban the purchase of sugary beverages, including soda, with SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) benefits. This initiative aims to combat obesity and diabetes rates but has sparked significant opposition from both the beverage industry and certain factions within the Republican Party.

Arkansas Governor's Proposal

Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders is at the forefront of this initiative, advocating for modifications to SNAP to exclude the purchase of sugary drinks. [00:39] Laura Cooper summarizes Sanders’ stance: “Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who's the governor there, has been pretty clear she is interested in amending what can be paid for by SNAP in that state. She said that there was a lot of diabetes and obesity in her state, and she thought that people using SNAP to buy things like sugary beverages or desserts would be a contributing factor to that.”

Public Health Arguments

Sanders argues that restricting the purchase of sugary beverages with SNAP benefits can significantly improve public health outcomes. [01:28] She cites a study stating that eliminating sugary drinks from SNAP could prevent obesity in 141,000 children and type 2 diabetes in nearly a quarter-million adults. The proposal is part of a broader public health strategy to reduce the consumption of unhealthy foods subsidized by taxpayer dollars.

Historical Context and USDA’s Stance

Historically, several states, including New York and Minnesota, have attempted similar restrictions but faced rejections from the USDA. The agency cited the complexity of implementing such bans due to the variety of sugary products and the difficulty in measuring their impact on public health. However, under the new Trump administration, led by Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr., there is renewed momentum. As Laura Cooper notes, “RFK has been very clear since before he was even in this campaign at all that he thought that SNAP should not cover sugary beverages.”

Industry Response and Political Pushback

The American Beverage Association, representing major soda companies like Coca-Cola and PepsiCo, is vehemently opposing the proposal. They argue that Americans should have the freedom to choose what best suits their families’ needs. [08:06] Laura Cooper explains the internal split within the Republican Party: “Some Republicans believe in choice. They believe if you have SNAP benefits, you should be able to buy what you want.” The beverage industry is launching ad campaigns emphasizing their low and zero-sugar options to counteract the proposed restrictions. [11:58] “The American Beverage Association also launched an ad campaign. It highlighted that more than half the products Americans buy from soda companies are low or zero sugar drinks.”

Economic and Social Implications

If Arkansas successfully removes soda from SNAP, it could set a precedent for other states, potentially leading to widespread changes in how SNAP funds are utilized nationwide. Laura Cooper highlights the economic implications: “It's also going to be hard at the checkout counter for people because right now if you have SNAP, they know you can't buy alcohol, cigarettes, certain things. But for so long, people have been able to buy soda.”

Furthermore, there are concerns about access to nutritious food. In areas where fresh produce and healthy drink options are scarce, SNAP participants might find their available choices severely limited, inadvertently affecting their overall diet and nutrition.

Public Opinion and Political Dynamics

Polling commissioned by the American Beverage Association reveals that nearly 60% of Trump voters support allowing soda purchases with food aid. This data underscores the political delicacy of the issue, as seen in [11:16] when Laura Cooper remarks, “The man is a huge Diet Coke fan... the American Beverage Association... are trying to appeal to Trump himself.”

Conclusion and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with a reflection on the potential outcomes. If Arkansas implements the ban successfully, it could lead to a domino effect, inspiring other states to follow suit. However, significant opposition from the beverage industry and within political circles may present considerable hurdles. The balance between promoting public health and preserving consumer choice remains at the heart of this ongoing debate.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah Huckabee Sanders [00:39]: “No more junk food for Arkansans on the taxpayer's dime.”
• Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [07:43]: “It's nonsensical for US Taxpayers to spend tens of billions of dollars subsidizing junk.”
• Brooke Rawlins [06:41]: “We shouldn't be subsidizing people to eat poison.”
• American Beverage Association Representative [08:31]: “Americans should be able to decide what's best for their families.”
• Laura Cooper [12:17]: “Americans love their Diet Coke. They love their Coke Zero, their Pepsi, zero sugar…”

This episode of The Journal provides a comprehensive exploration of the multifaceted struggle to regulate SNAP purchases, highlighting the intersecting interests of public health, political ideology, and corporate influence.

Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

Laura, are you a soda drinker?

[Laura Cooper]

Of course. Who doesn't drink soda? Right.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's our colleague Laura Cooper, who covers the beverage industry. Do you have a. Do you have a preference?

[Laura Cooper]

I have an answer, but I don't know if I should say.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It's a secret. We'll find out someday.

[Laura Cooper]

Yes.

[Jessica Mendoza]

When it comes to soda, Laura has recently been looking into a fight that's been brewing in one particular state, Arkansas. There's an effort there now to restrict what people can buy with food stamps, also known as snap, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.

[Laura Cooper]

No more junk food for Arkansans on the taxpayer's dime.

[Sarah Huckabee Sanders]

That's what Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders is proposing.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

Sanders says people who receive supplemental food benefits, also known as SNAP benefits, should not be able to use those funds to purchase snacks, candy, or desserts.

[Laura Cooper]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who's the governor there, has been pretty clear she is interested in amending what can be paid for by SNAP in that state. She said that there was a lot of diabetes and obesity in her state, and she thought that people using SNAP to buy things like sugary beverages or desserts or something like that, that would be a contributing factor to that.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Here's Sanders making her case on Instagram. A recent study found that if we just cut out sugary drinks and soda.

[Laura Cooper]

From SNAP, we, we could prevent obesity.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In 141,000 kids and type 2 diabetes.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

In nearly a quarter million adults.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Over the past 20 years, states have tried to get sugary drinks out of the SNAP program, but those efforts have always fizzled. This time, though, Arkansas has a chance. Industry insiders told Laura that if this idea spreads across the country, it could be a real hit to company sales. And soda makers are gearing up for a fight.

[Laura Cooper]

This has been something that has been looming on the horizon for a long time, the idea of soda being removed from SNAP and what that might look like. So I think everyone is watching with great interest what happens in Arkansas to see if that could be a blueprint for other things that would happen across the country.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Friday, March 7th. Coming up on the show, the fight bubbling to get soda out of snap.

[Sarah Huckabee Sanders]

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[Laura Cooper]

I'm ready for my life to change.

[Lyndon B. Johnson]

ABC Sunday American Idol returns.

[Sarah Huckabee Sanders]

Give it your all. Good luck. Come out with a golden ticket. Let's hear it.

[Laura Cooper]

This is immense. Word.

[Sarah Huckabee Sanders]

I've never seen anything like it.

[Lyndon B. Johnson]

And a new chapter begins. Begins.

[Jessica Mendoza]

You're going to Hollywood.

[Lyndon B. Johnson]

Carrie Underwood joins Lionel Richie, Luke Bryant and Ryan Seacrest on American idol. Season premieres Sunday, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[Laura Cooper]

And this administration today here and now declares unconditional war on on poverty in America.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's former President Lyndon B. Johnson. Back in the 1960s, the US government created a permanent food assistance program for low income Americans. Today, those eligible for the program get a kind of preloaded debit card from their state through the U.S. department of Agriculture. They can use that to pay for food at grocery stores, convenience stores and farmers markets.

[Laura Cooper]

And people can use it for all sorts of things, food, drinks, things are exempt from this. For instance, you can't buy alcohol or cigarettes or pet food. But it is money that is given for low income families to buy groceries. And it's used to buy a lot of soda.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Almost 13% of Americans rely on SNAP, and every year the federal government spends over $100 billion on the program. But soda and other sugary drinks have been a point of tension in the program for decades. Public health experts and lawmakers have raised concerns over the nutritional impact of those kinds of beverages.

[Laura Cooper]

Drinking soda is considered to be generally less healthy than, for instance, drinking water or something like that. And I think that there is concerns around diabetes and obesity. And some governors across the country have decided that is an issue in their state. And this is something that they want to work on specifically through limiting soda in snap. The SNAP program, is it a problem.

[Jessica Mendoza]

To use SNAP to buy soda?

[Laura Cooper]

Some would say it is a problem to buy soda on snap, though it is authorized and you are able to do it. The issue lies in whether the government should be paying for someone to consume that.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In the past, when states like New York and Minnesota have tried to get soda removed from SNAP for their residents, they've gone to the usda. But the agency rejected their requests, saying the restrictions were too complicated to implement. There are a lot of different kinds of soft drinks with different levels of sugar content, and it would be tricky to sort out what could and couldn't be bought with food stamps. The agency also said it'd be hard to gauge what kind of impact that effort would have on public health. But under the new Trump administration, the push to ban soda from SNAP has been reignited. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. The new secretary of Health and Human Services, has spoken out against sugary foods for a long time as part of RFK's campaign to improve public health, what he calls MAHA or Make America Healthy again. He's specifically gone against soda for its high sugar content.

[Brooke Rawlins]

You're much more likely to have kids who are in a learning atmosphere if they're not pumping up on sugar and, you know, and all of these other poisons. We shouldn't be subsidizing people to eat poison. You ask about why it's so cheap, why it's so ubiquitous. It's because we subsidize the worst foods.

[Laura Cooper]

RFK has been very clear since before he was even, you know, in this campaign at all that he thought that SNAP should not cover sugary beverages. That was something that he wanted to happen.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In an op ed for the Wall Street Journal last September, RFK said as much, adding, it contributes to poor health in America. He also wrote that it's, quote, nonsensical for US Taxpayers to spend tens of billions of dollars subsidizing junk. And Brooke Rawlins, the head of the usda, has indicated that she'd support taking soda out of snap.

[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]

So when a taxpayer is putting money into snap, do they. Are they okay with us? With us using their tax dollars to fund feed really bad food and sugary drinks to children who perhaps need something more nutritious?

[Jessica Mendoza]

Even with growing momentum to take soda out of snap, there are still some hurdles, including from within the Republican Party.

[Laura Cooper]

It's kind of where Maha and Maga kind of disagree, because some Republicans believe in choice. They believe in, you know, well, if you have SNAP benefits, you should be able to buy what you want to buy, and the government should not police what anyone can buy. But then, you know, Maha is in direct contrast to that, saying, well, no, actually, SNAP participants shouldn't be able to buy soda with their benefits.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The president of the American Beverage association, which represents soda companies, told us that Americans should be able to decide what's best for their families. He also said that these proposed changes would not, quote, improve health or save taxpayer dollars. How the soda companies are fighting, that's after the break.

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[Jessica Mendoza]

In Arkansas, Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders is poised to send a request to the USDA to restrict sugary items from Snap, potentially including candy, desserts. And soda. Companies like Coca Cola and PepsiCo are now on high alert. And it's in part because the battle over soda and the Snap program comes as these companies have been trying to keep up with changing consumer habits.

[Laura Cooper]

Even though I still drink soda, there are a lot of people who don't. You know, people are thinking about their health and they're looking for healthier options. And full sugar sodas, csds, as we call them, carbonated soft drinks, are kind of flat on sales. They continue to happen, but they're going a bit flat.

[Jessica Mendoza]

It's so funny when you say, like soda companies are flat.

[Laura Cooper]

Yeah. I recently wrote about gut pop prebiotic soda like Olipop and Poppy that's really getting a following.

[Sarah Huckabee Sanders]

The future of soda is now, and it's called Poppy Olipop, a new kind of soda, naturally sweet, nothing fake, supports digestive health culture.

[Laura Cooper]

Pop if soda grew on trees. All the soda companies carry Dr. Pepper, Coca Cola, PepsiCo, they've all been diversifying into different things. Energy drinks, milk seltzer, all sorts of things to continue to keep people coming in.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Coca Cola, for instance, fully acquired the milk brand Fairlife in 2020. In the past few years, PepsiCo also bought SodaStream and invested in Celsius energy drinks. As the companies move away from traditional sodas, they're also pushing back against the efforts in Arkansas to do that. They're trying to appeal to one of America's most famous soda drinkers, President Donald Trump.

[Laura Cooper]

The man is a huge Diet Coke fan. He even has a button for people to bring it to him throughout the day. So that's also part of the interesting thing here. So the American Beverage association, which is a trade group that represents Dr. Pepper, PepsiCo, Coca Cola, they have commissioned polling that showed that nearly 60% of the people who voted for Trump last year support allowing soda purchases with food aid. So that is something that I think that they're trying to make clear. And I also think they are trying to appeal to Trump himself. He's a big soda drinker, you know, I think that they're trying to appeal to Trump with polling.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Laura Says that the President has been skeptical of banning things. His supporters like telling his advisors that bans are unpopular. Beyond that polling, the American Beverage association also launched an ad campaign. It highlighted that more than half the products Americans buy from soda companies are low or zero sugar drinks.

[Laura Cooper]

The soda companies are working really hard to remind people of the zero and low sugar options that they offer to continue to keep their consumers coming back. And they would say that they are creating options for other people like and to meet them where they are. If you want a full sugar Pepsi, go for it. If you want Diet Coke, that's available to you, too. And if there's one thing I've learned on this beat, it is that Americans love their Diet Coke. They love their Coke zero, their Pepsi, zero sugar, and they say it tastes just like the original.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So if Arkansas does manage to remove soda from Snap, what will it mean for the people who use that program?

[Laura Cooper]

It would mean that SNAP recipients could not buy soda with their benefits. It would mean if you usually buy Coke, you could not. If you usually buy Dr. Pepper, you could not. I think that there are a lot of places in the country where fresh food and different kinds of drinks are not available. And, you know, this is something that people generally buy to feed their families. You know, for instance, we have some lawmakers talking about Arkansas and how it would be great to be able to buy more nutritious foods, but sometimes that's not what's available to people across the country.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Laura says it could also cause some of the complications that the USDA has referenced in the past because it's unclear what does and doesn't count as an unhealthy soda.

[Laura Cooper]

And I'm very curious to see, does that mean diet Dr. Pepper? Does that mean zero Coke? What does that mean? We've spoken to a lot of grocery stores as well, small mom and pop, and it just seems like it's also going to be hard at the checkout counter for people because right now if you have Snap, they know you can't buy alcohol, cigarettes, certain things. But for so long, people have been able to buy soda. So it's also going to be a little bit of a bottleneck at the actual checkout.

[Jessica Mendoza]

If Arkansas succeeds, Laura says that it could open the door for other states to do something similar.

[Laura Cooper]

Honestly, I think we'll see more of them from other states also states that maybe previously had tried to do something with sod. New York was one. So I think we will see also some not Republican states. I mean, Arkansas is pretty deep red, but I think we'll see. Other states kind of want to do this as well.

[Jessica Mendoza]

How worried would you say soda companies are about what's going on?

[Laura Cooper]

I would say they're concerned and they're watching with great interest. That being said, again, they've been here before on many different other paths that haven't gone anywhere, but I do think this is probably the closest we've ever gotten, especially with the buy in from the executive branch. And I think that that's also been a big thing for everybody to think about.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So do you think you'll be grabbing a soda with your lunch after this?

[Laura Cooper]

You know, I have a reusable water bottle that I always fill, so stick to water. I'll be sticking to water. Nice neutral water.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Before we go, we wanted to tell you that we're exploring a live event. Tell us what you want to see by taking our survey. There's a link in our show notes and for updates on our plans, please leave us your email address. That's all for today. Friday, March 7 the Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. The show is made by Kathryn Brewer, Pia Gadkari, Rachel Humphries, Sophie Codner, Ryan Knudson, Matt Kwong, Kate Linebaugh, Colin McNulty, Annie Minoff, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Alessandra Rizzo, Alan Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers, Pierce Singhy, Jeevika Verma, Lisa Wang, Katherine Whalen, Tatiana Zemis and me, Jessica Mendoza with help from Trina Menino. Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak and Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by so Wiley. Additional music this week from Katherine Anderson, Marcus Bagala, Billy Libby, Bobby Lord, Nathan Singapak, Griffin Tanner and Blue Dot Sessions. Fact Checking by Mary Mathis. Thanks for listening. See you on Monday.