The Killing Spree Tied to a Silicon Valley Intellectual Movement

Podcast: The Journal
Hosts: Ryan Knutson & Zusha Ellenson
Release Date: March 3, 2025

Introduction

In this gripping episode of The Journal, Ryan Knutson and Zusha Ellenson delve into a series of violent incidents linked to an intellectual movement in Silicon Valley known as the Rationalists. This movement, centered around AI safety and philosophical discourse, has recently been overshadowed by a disturbing killing spree orchestrated by a radical offshoot. The hosts explore the origins of the Rationalist community, the rise of its extremist faction, and the broader implications for the movement’s reputation and influence.

The Initial Killings

The episode opens with a harrowing account of two simultaneous violent events that have shocked communities across the United States:

• Vermont Incident ([00:05] – [01:11]):
  In January, a Border Patrol agent near the Canadian border with Vermont pulled over a suspicious vehicle carrying two armed passengers. A gunfight ensued, resulting in the deaths of the agent and one of the passengers. Ryan Knutson reports, “Breaking news out of Vermont for you tonight... the Border Patrol agent was killed in the shootout, as was one of the suspicious passengers.”

• Vallejo, California Murder ([00:45] – [01:11]):
  Simultaneously, in Vallejo, California, an 80-year-old landlord named Curtis Lynn was brutally stabbed to death. Police identified this as the city’s first homicide of the year. Ryan notes, “The killing of the Border Patrol agent and the landlord occurred within three days of one another.”

Despite occurring thousands of miles apart, these murders shared unexpected commonalities in the profiles of the suspects, leading authorities to uncover a deeper connection.

Introducing the Rationalist Movement

Ryan and Zusha provide an overview of the Rationalist community, emphasizing its intellectual foundations and influence in the tech industry:

• Community Characteristics ([03:06] – [04:00]):
  The Rationalists are described as a "loose group of intellectuals" based primarily in the San Francisco Bay Area. They engage in rigorous discussions on topics like decision-making, truth, and AI safety. Zusha explains, “They like to talk about debate, big existential questions. They love reason, logic, probability.”

• Influential Figures and Impact ([04:00] – [04:44]):
  The movement has attracted prominent individuals such as venture capitalist Peter Thiel and former OpenAI researcher Paul Cristiano. Their efforts have significantly contributed to the discourse on AI safety, with Zusha affirming, “They’ve sort of spearheaded this whole movement to slow down AI, to make sure AI is done in a way that doesn't harm people.”

• Online Presence ([04:44] – [05:27]):
  Much of the Rationalists' discussions occur on online forums like Less Wrong, which is noted for its complex and high-level debates. Ryan mentions, “Less Wrong is filled with long winded and complex posts,” highlighting the community’s intellectual depth.

Rise of Ziz and the Zizians

The narrative shifts to the emergence of an extremist figure within the Rationalist movement:

• Introduction to Lasota/Ziz ([06:22] – [07:49]):
  Lasota, a brilliant computer scientist from Alaska, becomes a central figure in the Rationalist community upon her arrival in the Bay Area around 2016. Over time, she adopts the moniker Ziz, inspired by an alien villain from an online comic. Zusha notes, “Ziz, which is an alien villain from an online comic, was sort of started wearing black robes everywhere and started adhering to this philosophy.”

• Extremist Transformation ([07:58] – [08:19]):
  Ziz's transformation intensifies as she publicly discusses her "journey to the dark side," advocating for militant veganism and violent actions against meat eaters. Ryan recounts, “She was very charismatic for that community,” but her rhetoric quickly alarmed other Rationalists.

The Violent Escalation

Following Ziz’s radicalization, the group known as the Zizians begins to commit violent acts:

• Formation of the Zizians ([08:35] – [09:38]):
  As Ziz's influence grows, she forms the Zizians, characterized by their militant stance and extremist beliefs. Their attempts to present unconventional research on neural identities are met with rejection by Rationalist organizations, leading to increased hostility.

• Public Confrontation ([09:38] – [10:28]):
  In 2019, Ziz and three other Zizians protest a Rationalist alumni reunion by wearing dark robes and Guy Fawkes masks, resulting in arrests and marking the beginning of their open defiance against the community.

• Ziz’s Presumed Death ([10:28] – [10:59]):
  In August 2022, Ziz reportedly went overboard from a ship in San Francisco Bay, leading to her presumed death. An obituary in Alaska characterized her as “loving adventure” but failed to hint at her extremist activities.

Recent Killings and Connection to Zizians

The Zizians reemerge with renewed violence, linking them directly to the recent murders:

• Eviction and Assault ([11:54] – [12:36]):
  After relocating to a property in Vallejo, the Zizians attempt to evade eviction by attacking their landlord, Curtis Lynn, resulting in his severe injury and subsequent death. Notably, Ziz, previously thought dead, is spotted at the crime scene, confirming she faked her demise.

• Continued Violence ([12:53] – [13:31]):
  In Pennsylvania, another double homicide occurs on New Year's Eve 2022. Ziz is found at the scene, leading to her arrest for alleged obstruction. Although she was released on bail, she vanished once more, intensifying the manhunt.

• Escalation to the Border Patrol([14:00] – [14:30]):
  The recent Vermont Border Patrol agent killing is linked back to the Zizians, tying together a series of tragic events attributed to this extremist group.

Impact on the Rationalist Community

The Rationalist movement is now grappling with the fallout from the Zizians' actions:

• Community Reflection ([15:01] – [16:19]):
  Leaders like Oliver Habrika have called for introspection within the Rationalist community, questioning whether internal dynamics and lack of stringent norms may have inadvertently fostered extremist elements. Habrika stated, “Understanding what is going on there might be of enormous importance in modeling the future impact of the extended less wrong social network.”

• Comparison to Effective Altruism ([16:37] – [17:05]):
  The episode draws parallels between the Rationalist fallout and the Effective Altruism movement’s challenges following Sam Bankman-Fried’s conviction. This comparison underscores fears that the Rationalist movement’s reputation may suffer, potentially hindering its influence in critical debates on AI safety.

• Future Implications ([17:13] – [17:49]):
  Zusha contemplates the long-term effects, suggesting that the Zizians' actions might lead to increased skepticism and diminished trust in the Rationalist community. “Will people take them seriously in these really important debates when they have this group of militant vegans that came from their ranks?” she asks.

Conclusion

The episode of The Journal presents a compelling exploration of how intellectual movements can sometimes give rise to extremist factions with devastating consequences. By tracing the origins and actions of the Zizians, Ryan Knutson and Zusha Ellenson highlight the challenges faced by the Rationalist community in maintaining its integrity and influence amidst internal turmoil. The narrative serves as a cautionary tale about the potential dangers of unregulated ideologies and the importance of fostering inclusive and resilient communities.

Notable Quotes:

• Zusha Ellenson ([00:15]):
  “They're wearing all black, they're armed to the teeth.”

• Zuzha Ellenson ([04:00]):
  “They talk a lot about this idea of the robot apocalypse of an evil AI killing off humanity.”

• Ryan Knutson ([03:23]):
  “A lot of people may have not heard about the rationalists, but they're very influential.”

• Oliver Habrika ([15:23]):
  “Understanding what is going on there might be of enormous importance in modeling the future impact of the extended less wrong social network.”

• Zusha Ellenson ([16:19]):
  “There are fewer norms that we share with more long lived groups which might act as antibodies for the most destructive kinds of ideas.”

This summary captures the essence of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview of the key discussions and insights presented by Ryan Knutson and Zusha Ellenson.