The Scramble Is on to Fill Trump’s Cabinet

Summary

Summary of "The Scramble Is on to Fill Trump’s Cabinet"

The Journal, a co-production of The Wall Street Journal & Gimlet, hosted by Kate Linebaugh and Ryan Knutson, with Jessica Mendoza. Released on November 8, 2024.

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Introduction

In the episode titled "The Scramble Is on to Fill Trump’s Cabinet," hosts Kate Linebaugh and Ryan Knutson, alongside political reporter Andrew Rastuccia, examine President-elect Donald Trump's initial efforts to assemble his new administration. The discussion delves into the complexities of the transition, key appointments, and the strategies underpinning Trump's selection of cabinet members.

Appointment of Susie Wiles as Chief of Staff

The episode begins with the announcement of Susie Wiles as Trump's White House Chief of Staff. At [00:05], Kate Linebaugh states:

"Yesterday, President elect Donald Trump took the first step to putting together his new administration. Trump announcing tonight that his White House Chief of Staff will be Susie Wiles."

Andrew Rastuccia adds at [00:15]:

"She becomes the first female chief of staff in US History."

Wiles is expected to play a pivotal role in stabilizing the administration, bringing a level of professionalism and steadiness that contrasts with Trump's previous turnover in the Chief of Staff position.

The Challenge of Transitioning the Administration

Rastuccia highlights the immense scale of the transition process. At [00:40], he explains:

"It is a just gargantuan feat. You have the entirety of our government nearly changing over. There's 4,000 political appointee positions. More than a thousand of those need to be confirmed by the Senate."

The complexity of replacing leadership across various government agencies within a short timeframe underscores the formidable task ahead for Trump's team.

Trump's Staffing Philosophy

Trump's approach to staffing emphasizes loyalty and alignment with his worldview. Rastuccia discusses at [01:10]:

"So he has said that there are things that he wants to do differently. The main thing comes down to hiring. And he's more convinced than ever now that his worldview is the right one. And so they want to avoid hiring people that come from a different worldview."

This philosophy aims to ensure that the administration operates cohesively towards Trump's policy objectives, minimizing internal dissent.

Insights from Andrew Rastuccia

Andrew Rastuccia, with 16 years of experience covering D.C. politics, shares his enthusiasm for government transitions. At [03:11], he remarks:

"I could talk about transitions all day."

Rastuccia reflects on the tumultuous 2016 transition, noting how Trump's decision to replace the initial transition team led by Chris Christie with his campaign allies resulted in early administrative challenges.

Howard Lutnick's Role in Staffing

A central figure in the current transition is Howard Lutnick, CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald, who is spearheading the staffing search. Rastuccia provides background at [06:27]:

"He's a billionaire Wall street guy. He's the CEO of a financial services firm called Cantor Fitzgerald. He's known Trump for decades."

Lutnick's longstanding relationship with Trump and his experience in rebuilding his company post-9/11 position him as a key player in recruiting top-tier talent for the administration.

At [08:29], Lutnick emphasizes the ambition behind the staffing efforts:

"And let's go select the greatest government we've ever had. Have smart people do it. Really get great people to commit to serving the government."

Despite Lutnick's influential role, there are concerns within Trump's inner circle about his methods and potential overreach in personnel decisions.

Cabinet Position Candidates

The discussion moves to potential candidates for pivotal cabinet roles, starting with the Treasury Secretary. Two names emerge prominently:

1. Scott Besant – A seasoned investor with close ties to Trump, involved in economic policymaking and campaign proposals.

2. John Paulson – A billionaire investor known for his lucrative bet against the housing market during the 2008 crisis. Paulson advocates for cutting government spending, aligning with Trump's fiscal priorities.

At [14:22], Rastuccia notes:

"John Paulson... he really values people who have amassed wealth and been successful in the business world. So we'll have to see how that plays out."

Potential High-Profile Appointees

Beyond traditional cabinet roles, Trump is reportedly considering high-profile figures for influential positions:

• Elon Musk – Speculated to oversee the government efficiency commission aimed at reducing federal spending by $2 trillion.

• Robert F. Kennedy Jr. – Likely to receive a health-related advisory role.

These appointments reflect Trump's strategy of leveraging prominent personalities to drive key policy areas.

Comparison to 2016 Transition

Rastuccia draws parallels between the current transition and the one in 2016, albeit with notable differences. At [16:49], he states:

"They have assembled detailed policy proposals. They are more prepared than they were in 2016. They are trying to run a more tight ship."

This increased preparedness suggests a more organized and strategic approach, though Trump's unpredictable nature continues to introduce elements of uncertainty.

Conclusion

The episode concludes by assessing the prospects for a smoother transition compared to 2016. While the presence of experienced figures like Susie Wiles and Howard Lutnick indicates a strategic approach, the inherent unpredictability of Trump's leadership style means that challenges remain. The ultimate success of the transition will hinge on balancing loyalty with effective governance, ensuring that the administration can implement its policy agenda effectively.

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This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the podcast episode, integrating notable quotes with proper attribution and timestamps to provide a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Kate Linebaugh]

Yesterday, President elect Donald Trump took the first step to putting together his new administration. Trump announcing tonight that his White House.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Chief of Staff will be Susie Wiles.

[Kate Linebaugh]

She becomes the first female chief of.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Staff in US History.

[Kate Linebaugh]

The White House Chief of Staff is often the first position a new president will fill and there will be many more before Inauguration Day. What does this task of appointing a whole new administration look like? What does it entail?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

It is a just gargantuan feat. You have the entirety of our government nearly changing over. There's 4,000 political appointee positions. More than a thousand of those need to be confirmed by the Senate.

[Kate Linebaugh]

That's our colleague Andrew Rastuccia.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

On top of that, you have every government agency's leadership is gonna change over in, you know, over a 24 hour period.

[Kate Linebaugh]

How has Trump talked about forming a new administration?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

So he has said that there are things that he wants to do differently. The main thing comes down to hiring. And he's more convinced than ever now, now that he's won a second term, that his worldview is the right one. And so they want to avoid hiring people that come from a different worldview. Loya will be sort of the core thing that they're looking for in all staff, across from low level people to the highest levels of government.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Kate LINEBAUGH. It's Friday, November 8th. Coming up on the show, who's going to be in Trump's next White House?

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[Kate Linebaugh]

Our colleague Andrew Rastuccia has been a D.C. politics reporter for 16 years, and one thing he really likes covering is the handover of power from one administration to the next.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

I could talk about transitions all day.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Seriously.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

I mean, I've covered. This is my third transition I've covered, so I have become sort of obsessed with them. So.

[Kate Linebaugh]

So you're like a transition nerd?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

A little bit, yeah.

[Kate Linebaugh]

You're like, at the dinner party, being like, hey, guys, you want to know what's really interesting? This boring part of government.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

You know, I just find government bureaucracy to be sort of. Fascinating is probably a strong word, but I think it's really important, and I think it's undercover, and I think you can draw a clear, straight line between some of the things that happened in Trump's first term and some of these conversations we're having now.

[Kate Linebaugh]

When Trump was first elected, the transition from campaign to White House wasn't exactly smooth.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

There was a sort of big blow up in 2016 on the transition team. So New Jersey. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie was running the transition team initially. And when Trump won the election in 2016, sort of unexpectedly, Trump cleaned house, and he replaced them with his vice president elect, then Mike Pence, and sort of the people who had been running his campaign apparatus, and they actually threw in the trash, literally threw in the trash, all of the plans that Christie had spent months putting together, and they sort of started from scratch. And that process of getting rid of all that stuff was blamed in part for some of the hiccups that President Trump faced in his first year or so in office.

[Kate Linebaugh]

What were those hiccups?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

You know, in the first term, a lot of his staff derided what they called globalists who were hired at the beginning, particularly of his term. You know, Wall street types who fundamentally disagreed with the president on issues like tariffs. They believed in sort of a multilateral approach to diplomacy. And he felt like some of the people that he hired weren't loyal enough to him and stood in the way of many of the things that he wanted to do. And that really bothered the president and his closest allies, including his family, who felt like he was the person that was elected by the people of this country and that he should get to do what he wants and that he shouldn't have lower level staff trying to stand in the way. And so I think that'll be one of the biggest changes this time around.

[Kate Linebaugh]

How prepared is the Trump team right now?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

So they started late. In theory. The transition should be up and running in the spring before an election.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Hold on. Excuse me. In the spring, like you're still. You've just come out of primaries and then you're supposed to start thinking about a transition even before you've won the election.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Yeah. The spring of an election year. Yeah.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Whoa.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Yeah. This would be just the earliest stages of planning in a perfect world. And the Trump team launched their transition in mid August, a few months later than was expected and later than notably, they did in 2016 as well.

[Kate Linebaugh]

The person leading Trump's staffing search is Howard Lutnick.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

He's a billionaire Wall street guy. He's the CEO of a financial services firm called Cantor Fitzgerald. He's known Trump for decades. He lives in New York and sort of socialized with him. He's a registered Republican, but he has a history of don to both political parties. But in recent years, he has become closer to Trump. They play golf together and he helped fundraise for him in his 2020 presidential campaign.

[Howard Lutnick]

Donald is a dealmaker. You know, the President's a dealmaker. He wants to make a deal with China.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

And notably, Lutnick has been a pretty vocal defender of Trump on cable news, which we know that the President spends a lot of time watching.

[Howard Lutnick]

He cares about business in America. I know he cares about business in America. He cares about.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

And about a year ago, Trump called Lutnick and said, hey, I'd love to get your help getting reelected. And he became a little bit more involved in his campaign. And then late this summer, he officially became co chair of the transition.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Lutnick is a lifelong New Yorker, and there was one experience decades ago that shaped him. His firm, Cantor Fitzgerald, had offices in the World Trade Center. When the plane struck on 9 11, all of his 658 employees who were in the office that day were killed, including his brother.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

And he spent years sort of rebuilding Cannon Fitzgerald and hiring new people. And so that process of hiring thousands of people over years to rebuild his company was one of the selling points for putting him in charge of personnel on the transition.

[Kate Linebaugh]

So he's like a headhunter for the new administration.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Exactly, yeah. And he is pretty active in trying to recruit people. He late last month was at a fundraiser for Trump in New York, and he openly said, look to all these sort of donors and a couple dozen people in the room, look, we need your help. Send me resumes of anybody that you know.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Here's Lutnick on cnbc.

[Howard Lutnick]

And let's go, let's go select the greatest government we've ever had. Have smart people do it. Really get great people to commit to serving the government, which I have every day everywhere I go.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Leading up to the election, Lutnick was compiling short lists of names for the biggest roles in Trump's cabinet jobs like Secretary of Treasury and Secretary of State. And Lutnick will pass those lists onto Trump.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

The president, notably, really cares about personnel and isn't going to see that to anybody else, especially at the most top level jobs.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Is Trump listening to him?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

So, as far as we can tell, Trump likes him a lot. And this is the tricky thing about reporting on Trump's orbit is there are a lot of different views and it's often difficult to tell exactly what Trump thinks in any given moment.

[Kate Linebaugh]

But Trump notoriously like, does things his own way. Is there a sense that he might try to change the playbook on how this transition stuff is done?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Absolutely. I mean, if they give him a short list and the people that he has identified in his head aren't on it, he's going to probably send them back and ask him to add those people. And then there's always the sort of broader concern, which I've heard from people close to the transition, which is like, will any of this work that they're doing matter? Is Trump just going to sit at Mar A Lago and come up with his own list of people? Is he going to ignore the work of the transition sort of altogether?

[Kate Linebaugh]

And while Lutnick may have Trump's backing, there are people in Trump's inner circle who have questioned Lutnick.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

He has at times appeared to make statements about personnel decisions in the view of some in Trump world, before they're made and before Trump has weighed in. He, for example, said that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Wouldn't be getting a job at the Health and Human Services Department, which annoyed people in Kennedy's orbit. For example, his sort of appeals to his Wall street friends to help him find people have ruffled some feathers in Trump's orbit, in part because of this concern that we talked about about hiring sort of Wall street type globalists that don't agree with the President's agenda. But as far as we can tell, Trump himself likes the guy. Of course, that could change at any moment, and especially now that he's going to be paying really close attention to the transition's operations. You know, we'll have to watch closely to see how all that plays out.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Coming up, who might be in Trump's cabinet.

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[Kate Linebaugh]

As you look at these short lists for all these different jobs, what do you see? What is a unifying characteristic of the candidates on these lists?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

I would say the unifying characteristic is that they are loyal to President Trump. They have publicly and privately shown fealty to him repeatedly. These are not people who have at least publicly reservations about what he might do in office. In fact, they're encouraging him to be aggressive and to use his authority aggressively.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Okay, so let's get into these different positions. Yesterday, Trump picked his chief of staff, Susie Wiles. Who is she?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Yeah, she is the sort of person that has been credited, at least in part, with getting Trump back into the White House. She was the co manager of Trump's presidential campaign. This time around, she is a longtime Florida political operative, and she is known as sort of this quiet, steady hand behind the scenes. So for all of the sort of rambunctiousness and bombast of the characters in Trump world, she is not one of them. The Trump campaign and the Trump advisors hope that she's gonna be a steadying force behind the scenes after Trump sort of cycled through chief of staff after chief of staff in his first term. And she's gonna try to put some order in place in what can be sort of a chaotic environment. And so the steadying hand role is going to be an important thing to watch.

[Kate Linebaugh]

What do you see as the significance that XI is his pick?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

I think it says that Trump is interested in, at least in this moment, is interested in trying to have a calming and steadying force in his orbit. The thing that Wiles gets the most credit for is trying to professionalize the Trump campaign. Where the first 2016 campaign could be described as sort of the Wild west, this campaign was a lot more disciplined. You didn't see the level of publicly backstabbing and leaks and personnel drama and all that stuff leaking into the press in the same way you did in the 2016 cycle. And so this seems to indicate that they're trying to mimic that environment in the White House. But Trump's an unpredictable character. Best laid plans in Trump world often go off the rails. But at least for now, that's what the signal is.

[Kate Linebaugh]

Okay, so let's talk about an important post in terms of the economy and money. The treasury secretary who's on that list.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Yeah. So there are two sort of finance veterans at the top of the list. The first is a guy named Scott Besant. He is is a longtime investor and he has grown quite close to President Trump over the last year and a half. He's often not on the road with him. He appears at rallies. He has been involved in some of the economic policymaking and campaign proposals that have happened over the last year. And then there's another billionaire investor named John Paulson who is also up for the job. Paulson has talked publicly and privately about trying to implement some of the things that Trump prioritizes, including cutting government spending.

[Kate Linebaugh]

And Paulson rose to prominence by famously betting on the housing crisis.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

That's right, yeah. And so he sort of made money, his critics would say, off the back of a lot of people suffering during the housing crisis. And so that would certainly be an issue that came up in any confirmation hearing. I'm not sure that that necessarily would stop Trump from picking him. He really values people who have amassed wealth and been successful in the business world. So we'll have to see how that plays out.

[Kate Linebaugh]

There are still many more important roles that will be vital to Trump's policy agenda, like homeland Security for his immigration plans and Secretary of State for Global affairs. And during his campaign, Trump leaned on some influential people who will likely get roles in his administration.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Elon Musk. Trump has said that he's going to be, you know, overseeing the sort of government efficiency commission, which is going to try to cut at least $2 trillion in federal spending, which is a huge number and experts say that might be difficult to actually achieve. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Who is likely to get some sort of health related advisory role in the administration. And Trump spends a lot of time on the phone with people that he's known for years, donors and financiers from New York and friends. It'll be a real massive group of people who will have influence over the president in these coming months.

[Kate Linebaugh]

On Wednesday, Trump was on a phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Elon Musk made an appearance. So given that Trump has done this transition before, do you think that will make this one smoother?

[Andrew Rastuccia]

Trump himself has said, and the senior advisors have said that he now knows how to do this job. It's no secret that in 2016 when he went the election, a lot of people in Trump world were surprised. They might not like to admit that, but they were. We know that from our reporting this time. They are not only the Trump team, but lots of outside groups have been preparing for this for years. They have assembled lists of people that they want to work in the government. They've assembled detailed policy proposals. And so I think it's fair to say that they are more prepared than they were in 2016. They are trying to run a more tight ship. It still remains to be seen exactly how that'll play out.

[Kate Linebaugh]

That's all for today. Friday, November 8 the Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Rebecca Ballhouse, Rachel Louise Ensign, Vivian Salama and Brian Schwartz. The show's made by Katherine Brewer, Jonathan Davis, Pia Gadkari, Rachel Humphries, Ryan Knudsen, Matt Kwong, Jessica Mendoza, Annie Minoff, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Alessandra Rizzo, Alan Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers Pierce Zingy, Jeevika Verma, Lisa Wang, Catherine Whalen, Tatiana Zimis and me, Kate Limebaugh, with help from Trina Menino. Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapok and Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by so Wiley. Additional music this week from Katherine Anderson, Peter Leonard, Billy Libby, Bobby Lord, Emma Munger, Nathan Singapok, Griffin Tanner and Blue Dot Sessions. Fact Checking by Mary Mathis. Thanks for listening. We're off Monday.

[Andrew Rastuccia]

See you Tuesday.