The Ticketmaster Breakup Trial Just Got Messier

Summary

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The Journal.

Episode: "The Ticketmaster Breakup Trial Just Got Messier"

Date: March 16, 2026
Hosts: Jessica Mendoza & Ryan Knutson
Guests: Dave Michaels (WSJ Reporter), Jeff Jackson (Attorney General, NC)

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks a dramatic turn in one of the largest ongoing antitrust trials in the U.S.: the Justice Department's lawsuit seeking to break up Live Nation and its ticketing giant, Ticketmaster. The trial, expected to stretch for months, was abruptly upended by a surprise settlement between Live Nation and the Justice Department. But rather than ending the conflict, the deal has splintered the coalition of state attorneys general, many of whom—shocked and unsatisfied with the terms—are continuing their legal fight. The hosts examine how the settlement came together, what’s in it, why many see it as inadequate, and what’s next for the battle over live event ticketing in America.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Background: Live Nation & Ticketmaster’s Domination

• Live Nation’s Structure: The company operates as a vertically integrated "fortress" ([03:54]), controlling concert promotion, venue ownership, and ticketing via Ticketmaster.
  • Dave Michaels:
    “Live Nation has four or five different segments to its business. It promotes tours. It owns venues… It owns Ticketmaster, which has an up to 80% market share in ticketing.” ([04:09])
• Antitrust Concerns: The DOJ’s case (filed in 2024) alleges Live Nation and Ticketmaster use exclusivity deals and economic leverage to entrench monopoly power, stifling competition and harming consumers with high fees and lack of alternatives.
  • Bipartisan frustration led nearly 40 state attorneys general, including many from Republican-led states, to join.

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2. The Trial Begins—and Surprising Early Testimony

• Key Government Witnesses: The trial started strongly for the DOJ, showcasing witnesses like John Abimondi (Barclays Center) describing alleged coercion for venues to stay with Ticketmaster ([05:31]-[06:29]).
  • Quote:
    “You can’t get good shows if you don’t use Ticketmaster. And you will feel the threats of Live Nation if you break with Ticketmaster.” — Dave Michaels, summarizing testimony ([05:42])
  • Evidence included a secretly recorded testy call between Live Nation’s CEO Michael Rapino and Abimondi, interpreted as a “veiled threat.”
  • SeatGeek's CEO described the need for "retaliation insurance" due to fears of losing events after switching from Ticketmaster ([07:04]).
• The CEO Testimony That Didn’t Happen: Michael Rapino was expected to be a pivotal witness but never appeared, as settlement talks were proceeding behind the scenes.

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3. The Backroom Settlement & Immediate Fallout

• Behind the Deal: As testimony unfolded, Live Nation lobbied the Trump administration using connected advisors, including Kellyanne Conway, to negotiate a settlement ([08:04]-[08:41]).
  • Dave Michaels describes political appointees in DOJ seeing a need to show “quick wins” for voters, motivating a deal even as trial lawyers were making progress ([09:45]).
• The Settlement Terms (as of March 5):
  • Limits on exclusivity fees and greater openness of Live Nation–owned amphitheaters to rival ticketing firms.
  • A cap (15%) on service fees—but only at Live Nation amphitheaters ([09:12]).
  • Ticketmaster must make its tech available to rivals for primary ticket sales.
• Immediate Reaction:
  • State AGs were "blindsided," given a day to sign on, and the judge was not informed promptly, prompting his irritation ([09:25]).
  • 25+ states (and DC), led by AG Jeff Jackson, refused to sign, considering the deal insufficient.

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4. Why Many States Are Still Fighting

Interview with North Carolina AG Jeff Jackson ([13:18]-[19:45])

• On Being Cut Out:
  “US DOJ cut out all 40 AGs and basically did this privately and then gave us a 24 hour ultimatum…” — Jeff Jackson ([13:32])
• On the Settlement’s Adequacy:
  "It's inadequate. The core mission for this litigation was to get at Live Nation's control over Ticketmaster.” ([14:21])
• On Specific Provisions:
  • Amphitheater access: Jackson questions the limited scope and potential loopholes ([16:13]).
  • Fee caps: Applauds in principle, but says actual impact is unclear due to lack of detail ([16:43]).
  • Exclusive booking rights lifted: Called a "step forward," but “a fraction of the total picture”—most changes target less significant venues ([17:14]).
  • $280 million customer fund: Concerned it’s just a PR gesture; fears costs will be passed back to consumers ([17:41]).
• On the Stakes:
  "What's at stake here is the experience that millions of people have when they want to take their kid... to a concert... whether or not there's actual competition in this marketplace..." — Jeff Jackson ([19:45])
• Why Continue:
  “My constituents want me to. Also because this sets a really important precedent... companies that are abusing their power over people.” ([18:16])
• On Live Nation’s Defense:
  “I think we still have really strong evidence that... Live Nation’s control of Ticketmaster means all the problems we’ve seen... still persist.” ([19:08])
• On internal evidence:
  Private Slack chats unsealed, showing Live Nation employees mocking customers and joking about “robbing them blind” ([19:21]). Live Nation denies these represent company values.

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5. Where Does the Trial Go Now?

• What’s Next:
  • The trial resumes—now led by 25+ state AGs seeking further remedies, potentially even a breakup.
  • DOJ and several AGs drop out, citing satisfaction with the deal.
  • The remaining states, if victorious, could ask for stronger remedies—but will face Live Nation’s argument that the “problem has been solved” ([20:32]).
  • Dave Michaels: “Anything is possible, but the states have to win at trial first... This has gotten a lot messier.” ([20:32]-[20:58])
  • Ongoing: The story is unfinished and could set broad precedents for monopoly enforcement.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Michaels:
  “Live Nation is a fortress that was built over time, not with stone walls, but with contracts.” ([03:54])
• Jessica Mendoza (on the backlash to settlement):
  “Many of the State attorneys general that had also joined the fight were blindsided… and the judge overseeing the case didn’t even know about the tentative deal until late that Sunday.” ([09:12])
• Jeff Jackson (on the process):
  "This is really unprecedented... DOJ cut out all 40 AGs and basically did this privately and then gave us a 24 hour ultimatum." ([13:32])
• Jeff Jackson (on why this matters):
  “We want to show that attorneys general and the law are capable of… pushing back against companies that are abusing their power over people.” ([18:16])
• On Live Nation’s attitude:
  “Their stock jumped after news of the deal... it does seem like Live Nation is pretty content.” — Jessica Mendoza / Dave Michaels ([10:53]-[11:03])
• Jeff Jackson to Live Nation:
  “See you back in court.” ([11:57])
• Dave Michaels closing:
  “This odyssey isn’t over yet.” ([21:01])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:05-01:39: Setting up the antitrust trial and Live Nation’s power
• 03:54-05:31: Deep dive into Live Nation/Ticketmaster’s business structure and dominance
• 05:31-07:21: Key trial testimony about alleged threats and retaliation
• 08:04-09:25: Political maneuvering and the sudden DOJ-Live Nation settlement
• 11:44-12:08: Jeff Jackson (“See you back in court.”) and transition to broader AG perspective
• 13:18-19:45: In-depth interview with AG Jeff Jackson: what’s wrong with the settlement, what’s at stake, why states are still fighting
• 19:21: Slack messages from Live Nation staff mocking customers revealed
• 20:19-21:01: Dave Michaels on next steps; trial remains unresolved

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Tone and Language

The episode is explanatory, incisive, and sometimes indignant—reflecting frustration both from the states still fighting and from the reporting journalists. The hosts strike an accessible, engaging tone, demystifying legal and business concepts. The state AG interview is assertive yet measured, focused on the public interest and broader implications for antitrust enforcement.

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Conclusion:
The settlement between Live Nation/Ticketmaster and the DOJ has created a rift, leaving a coalition of states fighting on for deep, structural remedies to the concert ticketing monopoly. With the trial ongoing and public outrage unassuaged, the episode closes on the promise of more mess—and more to come.

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Transcript

[Jessica Mendoza]

It's one of the biggest antitrust trials in the country, the fight to break up the concert giant Live Nation and its ticketing arm, Ticketmaster. And in the weeks leading up to the trial, our colleague Dave Michaels kept hearing the same thing.

[Dave Michaels]

I was checking in very often, and I was told without any doubt from sources on both sides, it's going, it's on.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And when the trial finally began this month, the Justice Department came out swinging.

[Dave Michaels]

The trial had started on March 2, and the first week had gone really well for the Justice Department. They had put on some of their strongest witnesses, people who were talking about the Justice Department's theory of this case, which is that Live Nation and Ticketmaster kind of work in combination to lock up all parts of this entertainment business.

[Jessica Mendoza]

The trial was expected to last months, but after just one week, a bombshell.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Live Nation has reached a surprise settlement to end its antitrust case with the Justice Department. The two sides now reaching a tentative agreement that avoids breaking up the world's largest live entertainment company.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Under this surprise deal, there would be new limits on exclusivity fees and venue access, but there would be no breakup of Live Nation and Ticketmaster. So we got a settlement. Is the case over?

[Dave Michaels]

Well, the Justice Department was quarterbacking this trial and they're out of the game now. But that doesn't mean the trial is over. They're going to have to hand the ball off and it'll continue.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, March 16th. Coming up on the show, Deal or no Deal, why the Live Nation antitrust trial lives on.

[Dave Michaels]

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[Jessica Mendoza]

Live Nation isn't just a concert company. As our colleague Dave Michaels puts it. It's a fortress that was built over time, not with stone walls, but with contracts, exclusivity deals that give it control over key parts of the live entertainment business.

[Dave Michaels]

Live Nation has four or five different segments to its business. It promotes tours. It's a promoter. It owns venues. It owns amphitheaters. It owns arenas. It can make money from advertising inside of its venues or at the venues it operates.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And then there's ticketing.

[Dave Michaels]

Tickets are on sale now and Ticketmaster

[Jeff Jackson]

outlets are in charge by phone.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Live Nation owns Ticketmaster, which has an up to 80% market share in ticketing. The Justice Department's antitrust division sued Live Nation in 2024, alleging it's an illegal monopoly.

[Dave Michaels]

I mean, there was bipartisan frustration with Ticketmaster and Live Nation, so there was bipartisan buy in on on the lawsuit. So There were almost 40 attorneys general who joined the lawsuit. And there were AGs from Republican states like Texas and Tennessee and Utah.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A main goal of the antitrust case was to force Live Nation to shed Ticketmaster, opening up the market for more competition. The state attorneys general said they were standing up for residents fed up with junk fees and a ticketing system dominated by Ticketmaster. So Dave cut to this month. The trial finally begins. Who does the jury hear from?

[Dave Michaels]

We go into witnesses and that first witness is John Abhimandi, who's running the Barclays Center. He's one of their key witnesses. He's there to tell the jury that you can't get good shows if you don't use Ticketmaster. And you will feel the threats of Live Nation if you break with Ticketmaster.

[Jessica Mendoza]

To underscore this point, Abimondi testified about ending an agreement with Ticketmaster in 2021 and switching to a ticketing competitor, Seatgeek. That's when he says his phone rang. Live Nation CEO Michael Rapinoe was on

[Dave Michaels]

the line and they played a recording in court between him and Michael Rapinoe, the CEO of Live Nation. It was a very Testy call, but it doesn't. Doesn't deliver.

[Jeff Jackson]

It doesn't deliver us what we need. I've told you that. I've told you.

[Dave Michaels]

And the CEO of Live Nation said,

[Jeff Jackson]

you know, going to be a tough time to deliver tickets or concerts with the new competitor in town. Regardless of ticketing.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A newer venue had recently opened in the New York area. And Abimonti testified that he viewed the call from Live Nation's Rapinoe as a, quote, veiled threat.

[Dave Michaels]

And kind of, in a nutshell, that's the government's theory of this case, that Live Nation will threaten you until you stick with Ticketmaster.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Over the week of testimony, more witnesses spoke about pressure. SeatGeek's CEO testified that Ticketmaster's tactics got so aggressive that they had to offer venues something called retaliation insurance, which means

[Dave Michaels]

that it would pay the arena in the event that it lost an event because it switched from Ticketmaster to seatgeek.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Wow. So it sounds like things were escalating. And wasn't Michael Rapinoe, the CEO of Live Nation, set to take the stand as well?

[Dave Michaels]

They were supposed to get to Michael Rapinoe in that second week. That would have been the Justice Department's chance to really grill, frankly, like the executive who's kind of credited with building up this very dominant company and through conduct that the Justice Department says was really anti competitive.

[Jessica Mendoza]

But the Justice Department never got Rapinoe on the stand. That's because, as it turned out, a deal was being hammered out behind the scenes. While the jury was hearing testimony, Live Nation was working political back channels, tapping consultants close to the Trump administration.

[Dave Michaels]

We were aware that Live Nation had hired some high profile, very connected advisors, people that it wanted to petition the Trump administration for some kind of a deal. And, you know, I was aware that there was a meeting in the summer of 2025 where Kellyanne Conway, the former counselor to the president in the first Trump administration, had met with several very senior DOJ officials and talk to them about, hey, can't we get to a deal here? Can't we find some off ramp that makes everybody happy?

[Jessica Mendoza]

That off ramp came out near the end of that first week of testimony. By Thursday, March 5, a term sheet that outlined a tentative deal had been signed by Justice Department lawyers in Live Nation.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

According to the settlement agreement, Ticketmaster must allow rival companies like StubHub and SeatGeek to sell primary tickets using its ticketing technology and cap some of those frustrating service fees at 15%. But only at Live Nation owned amphitheaters.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Many of the State attorneys general that had also joined the fight were blindsided. They were told they had one day to respond. And the judge overseeing the case didn't even know about the tentative deal until late that Sunday.

[Dave Michaels]

He was really mad because they continued the case even though they had this settlement that the judge felt like he should have been told about. And, you know, he was really irate. You know, he didn't think it was professional. Like, why wasn't he told? And where did this deal come from?

[Jessica Mendoza]

And so what did you learn about where this deal did come from?

[Dave Michaels]

It's important to remember that in a case like this, there can be two tracks. There can be parallel tracks going on where the trial team is there to win, win, win. They've gotten what they think are great witnesses. They're working 24, 7. On the other track, in a case like this, you can have the political appointees, the senior people in the Justice Department or maybe in the administration who believe they see a bigger picture. And these people, the Justice Department high up, are thinking, look, we're here for four years. We need to show that we're doing stuff for the voters who put President Trump in office. And if they can get a win now, rather than punting this to the future, they're willing to do that because their incentives are a little bit different than the trial teams.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And so ultimately, to these folks, a settlement is a win.

[Dave Michaels]

They want to be able to say that they forced Live Nation to change important parts of its business.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In a statement, Live Nation said the deal would improve the concert experience for artists and fans throughout the U.S. the company's stock jumped after news of the deal.

[Dave Michaels]

So right now, it does seem like Live Nation is pretty content.

[Jessica Mendoza]

In a call with reporters last week, a senior Justice Department official said that the deal addresses their lawsuit's main concerns about anti competitive conduct. The official added that the settlement opens up markets and would lead to prices coming down for fans. The deal means that the DOJ will stop pursuing the suit. So will many other state attorneys general who are plaintiffs in the case. But 25 state AGs, plus D.C. say the deal didn't go far enough and they want to keep fighting. One of them is North Carolina's Jeff Jackson.

[Jeff Jackson]

Technically, we are still at trial. This does not get to the core issue, which is Live Nation's continued control over Ticketmaster.

[Jessica Mendoza]

And to Live Nation. Is there anything you would want to say?

[Jeff Jackson]

See you back in court.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's after the break.

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[Jessica Mendoza]

Just for the record, can you just introduce yourself, please?

[Jeff Jackson]

I'm Jeff Jackson. I'm the Attorney General for North Carolina.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Jackson represents one of the states that sued Live Nation along with the Justice Department. He says he was surprised when he learned that the DOJ had struck a deal with Live Nation.

[Jeff Jackson]

This is really unprecedented. I mean, we had a group of 40 attorneys general and US DOJ who was the lead in the case, and then us DOJ cut out all 40 ags and basically did this privately and then gave us a 24 hour ultimatum as to whether we were going to sign or not.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Ultimatum is the word you used?

[Jeff Jackson]

Yeah, I think that's a fair word.

[Jessica Mendoza]

A bipartisan coalition of more than 25 states, including New York and Tennessee, rejected the federal settlement, which means their part of the lawsuit isn't over. The Justice Department may have settled its claims, but those states are continuing the trial on their own with help from a star antitrust lawyer. We talked to Jackson late last week about the case and his thoughts on the settlement. If you were to boil this down to one word, the settlement, how would you characterize it?

[Jeff Jackson]

It's inadequate. The core mission for this litigation was to get at Live Nation's control over Ticketmaster. They merged about 16 years ago, and when that happened, it gave Live Nation control over the three main levers in the entertainment industry, which are the venues, the artists, and the ticketing. So when they gain Ticketmaster, they sort of completed their triumvirate and then they can tell concert goers, if you don't accept these ticket prices, you don't get to Go see your artists. I am in the middle of a trial right now and I'm also in the middle of negotiations. So I'm not going to share publicly what all terms we feel are successful or adequate rather. But the core goal is fundamentally Live Nation's control over Ticketmaster.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Live Nation says it made several significant concessions. A company executive said the agreement is a very good outcome for artists and venues and that people calling it inadequate are not being realistic. So ultimately, what is the problem here? Is it the fact that a deal was reached at all during the trial, or are there specific terms in the deal that don't sit right?

[Jeff Jackson]

There are specific terms in the deal. It's not the fact that a deal was reached. Deals are reached all the time in the middle of litigation. I'm not opposed to it. It's just that this deal was inadequate. Also, I should say the deal itself is really unclear. It's a five page deal. Normally with a case of this magnitude, you would expect the deal to have 30 or 40 pages of detail. We really don't know what the deal actually means yet.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Let's talk through some of the provisions that we do know about, and I'd love to hear what you think of them. For example, one of them is that Live Nation has to open amphitheaters it controls to other ticketing companies and that 50% of those tickets are going to be available to rivals. What's the issue with that?

[Jeff Jackson]

There's a question as to how many amphitheaters. We're really talking about what percentage of the whole that means and whether Live Nation allowing that would actually mean a significant reduction of their power that would allow real competition. Ultimately, there's not enough competition in the space.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Let me bring up another provision, and this one is something that I think a lot of customers feel strongly about. This deal puts a 15% cap on service fees and add ons at those amphitheaters. What do you think of it?

[Jeff Jackson]

Well, we really don't know what the deal actually means because there are no details here. However, in principle, we like the idea of there being a cap because clearly there has been a situation where you go to buy an $80 ticket and by the time you check out, it's $130. The core issue there isn't just their willingness to do that, it's their ability to do it because of their total control over Ticketmaster.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Speaking of removing control, Live Nation also agreed to give up exclusive booking rights at 13amphitheaters.

[Jeff Jackson]

Sure. We'll call that a step Forward, but this is a fraction of the total picture here. A lot of those amphitheaters are in secondary markets. I think it's a perfect example of why this is an inadequate deal.

[Jessica Mendoza]

I have one more provision to bring up with you, which is that the company is creating a $280 million settlement fund for the states as compensation for customers who felt like they had to pay too much for tickets. What do you say to that?

[Jeff Jackson]

First of all, we don't know where that money would go. What is to prevent them. If that deal goes through and say we all signed on, what's to prevent them from just raising ticket prices 1% and immediately making up that difference?

[Jessica Mendoza]

For all those reasons, Jackson says the settlement deal doesn't work, so he and other state AGs are picking up the mantle and pressing on with the case themselves. Of all the cases you could be taking, Attorney General Jackson, I'm sure there are a lot of issues that are on your desk right now. Why prioritize this one? Why is this one worth the time and the resources?

[Jeff Jackson]

Well, first of all, because my constituents want me to. I mean, I've heard very clearly from them what they think about Ticketmaster and these prices that they're being asked to pay. But also because this sets a really important precedent. We want to show that attorneys general and the law are capable of. Of pushing back against companies that are abusing their power over people. It would be important not just in this case, but for the business community in general to see that we are capable of coming together when the evidence is very clear that the law has been broken and pushing back and changing things going forward, not just with a slap on the wrist, but an actual change that helps actual people?

[Jessica Mendoza]

Can't Live Nation argue that it's already solved the problem with the settlement? Wouldn't that make the state's case harder to prove in court down the line if you don't reach a deal now?

[Jeff Jackson]

I don't think so. I think we still have really strong evidence that the fact that Live Nation maintains its control of Ticketmaster means that all the problems we've seen from them over the last 15 years still persist.

[Jessica Mendoza]

Last week, the judge unsealed more evidence, including internal Slack messages in which Live Nation employees called customers, quote, so stupid and joked about, quote, robbing them blind. Live Nation said it was looking into the private messages and that the chats do not represent Live Nation's values. What's at stake here? If you can't get a deal or you can't get a win in court,

[Jeff Jackson]

what's at stake here is the experience that millions of people have when they want to take their kid or their loved one or themselves to a concert. What is at stake here is the ability of artists to earn a living and do so with dignity. What's at stake here is whether or not there's actual competition in this marketplace or we're going to allow a monopoly to essentially drive out all that competition and then use everybody's lack of options to benefit themselves, to bonus themselves at our expense.

[Jessica Mendoza]

As the trial picks back up this week, our colleague Dave Michaels says there's still a lot to iron out. What happens now, Dave? Like, could the states that are still in the trial get the breakup they're hoping for?

[Dave Michaels]

Well, anything is possible, but the states have to win at trial first. And only if it wins there will it get to the next phase where it asks a court to fix the problems that the jury found. At that point, Live Nation can point to whatever reach with the DOJ and say, hey, we've already solved the problem. So this has gotten a lot messier.

[Jessica Mendoza]

So it sounds like we might be talking to you again.

[Dave Michaels]

Yeah, I think so. This odyssey isn't over yet.

[Jessica Mendoza]

That's all for today. Monday, March 16 the Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode from Katherine Sayre. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

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[Jessica Mendoza]

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