The World Cup Story, Part 2: Too Big To Fail

Summary

The Journal. — The World Cup Story, Part 2: Too Big To Fail
June 14, 2026 | Hosts: Ryan Knutson, Jessica Mendoza | Guests: Jonathan Clegg, Joshua Robinson

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Episode Overview

This episode, the second of a Sunday special series on the World Cup, explores how FIFA—beset by scandal and leadership change in 2015—transformed into an organization focused less on soccer fans and more on power, money, and global influence. Hosts Ryan Knutson and guests Jonathan Clegg and Joshua Robinson trace Gianni Infantino’s presidency, FIFA’s adaptation to criticism and crises, and the expanding commercialism that now defines the World Cup. The journey follows FIFA’s “too big to fail” mentality, business maneuverings, and what this means for fans, tournaments, and the future of global soccer.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. FIFA in Crisis (2015–16): The Birth of a New Era

• Backdrop: After corruption scandals under Sepp Blatter, FIFA scrambled to rebuild credibility and leadership.
• Election Mechanics: FIFA presidency operates with a “one country, one vote” system; in 2016, Gianni Infantino emerges as the new president after a campaign of promised reform and transparency (00:49–01:18).
  • “His platform was basically make FIFA great again. Essentially, yes. It was like radical transparency change we can believe in.” — Jonathan Clegg (01:18)
  • “He was gonna get FIFA back to its roots loving football.” — Joshua Robinson (01:25)

2. Infantino’s Promises vs. Reality

• Image Rehab: Early Infantino tries to differentiate from Blatter-era corruption with symbolic acts—playing football at FIFA HQ, traveling budget airlines, surrounding himself with "FIFA legends" (04:09–05:06).
  • “He also surrounded himself with, like, FIFA legends. He loves a FIFA legend … to emphasize his relationship with players and fans.” — Jonathan Clegg (04:32)
  • “Early on made headlines … started flying on easyjets around Europe.” — Joshua Robinson (04:55)
• Fan Detachment: Despite populist messages, fan interests often sidelined, most notably with the controversial decision not to revisit World Cup 2022 in Qatar (02:02, 05:20–05:51).
  • “The considerations of fans seem to be, you know, the last thing on FIFA’s mind.” — Jonathan Clegg (02:02)

3. Qatar & Russia: Human Rights, Power Politics, and Unprecedented Moves

• Human Rights Scrutiny: Intense criticism around choosing Qatar as a host; issues with migrant labor deaths, illegality of homosexuality, and strict local rules (07:15–09:11).
• Infantino’s Response: Delivers infamous press conference (“Today I feel gay ... disabled ... a migrant worker”) attempting to align with disenfranchised groups (08:13–08:30).
  • “Today I feel gay. Today I feel disabled. Today I feel a migrant worker.” — Infantino, via Jonathan Clegg (08:13–08:30)
  • “It sort of reinforced the idea that this was a guy who was sort of a little bit out of touch…” — Jonathan Clegg (08:39)
• Compromises for Qatar 2022:
  • World Cup moved out of summer for first time ever—disrupting international soccer calendars (09:36–10:22).
  • 48 hours before kickoff, Qatar bans alcohol sales at stadiums, despite Budweiser’s massive sponsorship (11:07–12:14).
  • “A World Cup without beer is like a World Cup without a ball.” — Ryan Knutson (11:27)
• “Renting” the Tournament: FIFA’s increasing willingness to accommodate host countries’ demands, often prioritizing business over tradition and fan experience (12:23–12:37).
  • “FIFA didn't so much organize the World cup or own the World cup, but was in the business of renting it to various countries.” — Joshua Robinson (12:23)

4. Chasing Money: The U.S. Opportunity & Relationship with Trump

• Expanding the Brand: Middle East as a new, lucrative market despite small fan bases, driven by sovereign wealth and advertising ambitions (13:00–13:38).
• 2026 World Cup in North America: Infantino cultivates ties with Donald Trump, seeing the U.S. as the world’s most lucrative sports market (13:56–14:54).
  • Infantino accompanies Trump to events, appears at summits, and presents him with the invented FIFA Peace Prize at the World Cup draw (15:12–16:31).
  • “Mr. President, this is your prize. This is your Peace Prize.” — Jonathan Clegg (16:26)
  • “The entire thing was actually presented to an audience of one … The whole show was made for Trump.” — Jonathan Clegg (17:08)
• Why Placate Trump?: FIFA wants smooth operations, fearing Trump could complicate plans or withdraw games from Mexico (17:39–18:16).

5. 2026 World Cup: Maximum Size, Maximum Money

• Mega-Tournament: Now 48 teams, 104 matches across U.S., Mexico, Canada—optimized for ticket and ad sales, anticipating $15 billion in revenue (20:07–22:06).
• Americanization: Infantino brands the event as “a hundred and four Super Bowls in one month” (22:16–22:42).
  • “There will be one hundred and four Super Bowls in one month. The world will stand still and observe the biggest global event that humanity has ever seen.” — Infantino, via Jonathan Clegg (22:16)
• Ticket Pricing Disaster:
  • Explosive ticket prices via “dynamic pricing” led to backlash; fans must enter credit cards before knowing prices.
  • “Every bit of ticketing for this tournament has been a fiasco ... We don’t really have a good answer.” — Joshua Robinson (25:27)
  • FIFA opens small batch of cheaper tickets after public outcry, but supply is minuscule (25:48–26:24).
• Broader Price Gouging: High hotel and transport prices, empty rooms before the tournament as supply surges (26:52–27:56).
  • “Everything about it is just degrees higher than people were used to paying in the past.” — Jonathan Clegg (26:52)

6. Is FIFA Too Big To Fail?

• Malleability of the Tournament: FIFA’s ability to move dates, expand size, and adapt shows its overwhelming influence (32:39–33:29).
  • “If you can move the World cup from the summer to the winter, if you can stage the tournament with no alcohol sales, you know, I think that you probably feel like you can do anything.” — Jonathan Clegg (32:48)
• Commercialization and Fan Alienation: Fears over “usification”—halftime shows, more commercials, and a product increasingly divorced from traditional soccer culture (29:34–30:38).
  • “There are going to be drinks breaks where commercials are shown ... which are not staples of the World Cup.” — Jonathan Clegg (30:19)
  • “It's just too American.” — Joshua Robinson (30:27)
• Are We at “Peak” Sports?
  • Hosts question if the relentless pursuit of “more” (games, money, spectacle) will hit limits amid competition from new forms of entertainment (31:49–32:26).
  • “Just keep pulling that more lever until people beg for mercy … but we haven’t seen that happen anywhere.” — Joshua Robinson (32:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Infantino’s Populism:
  “His platform was basically make FIFA great again ... radical transparency change we can believe in.” — Jonathan Clegg (01:18)

• On Qatar 2022’s Unique Challenges:
  “A World cup without beer is like a World cup without a ball.” — Ryan Knutson (11:27)

• On Commercialization:
  “There will be one hundred and four Super Bowls in one month … the biggest global event that humanity has ever seen.” — Gianni Infantino via Jonathan Clegg (22:16)
  “Every bit of ticketing for this tournament has been a fiasco ... We don’t really have a good answer.” — Joshua Robinson (25:27)

• On FIFA's “Too Big To Fail” Status:
  “If you can move the World cup from the summer to the winter, if you can stage the tournament with no alcohol sales, ... I think that you probably feel like you can do anything.” — Jonathan Clegg (32:48)

• On the Shift in Sports Culture:
  “There are going to be drinks breaks where commercials are shown ... staples of American sports broadcasting, but not staples of the World Cup.” — Jonathan Clegg (30:19)
  “It's just too American.” — Joshua Robinson (30:27)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:49: How FIFA elects a president after Blatter’s departure
• 01:18: Infantino’s platform and campaign rhetoric
• 05:20: Fans’ perspective and early disenchantment
• 07:15–09:11: Human rights and labor controversies in Qatar
• 08:13: Infantino’s much-mocked “I feel ...” press conference
• 09:36–10:22: Soccer calendar disruption: World Cup moves to winter
• 11:07: Last-minute beer ban at Qatar 2022 stadiums
• 13:00: Gulf states as new money sources for FIFA
• 15:12–16:31: Trump receives the first FIFA Peace Prize at D.C. draw event
• 20:07–22:06: Ticketing expansion, “104 Super Bowls”
• 24:21–25:13: US ticket price sticker shock and dynamic pricing woes
• 26:52–27:56: Price gouging hits fans and cities alike
• 29:34–30:38: “Usification” — World Cup adopting American sports culture
• 32:39–33:29: The “too big to fail” theory and FIFA’s adaptability

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Final Thoughts

The episode paints FIFA as a powerful, near-unassailable organization that eagerly courts global leaders and wealth, embraces disruptive changes, and drives relentless commercial expansion—often at the expense of its original audience: the fans. With World Cup 2026 as the biggest and most Americanized edition ever, the central question is whether the game risks alienating its supporters and becoming a spectacle divorced from its historic roots—while remaining, for now, “too big to fail.”

Transcript

[Ryan Knutson]

In 2015, FIFA was in free fall. FIFA's longtime president Sepp Blatter had just stepped down in disgrace. More than a dozen officials had been indicted. Some pleaded guilty. Others were convicted at trial. A few served prison time. In the US we tell that story in a which came out last Sunday. So FIFA needed to move forward and the nonprofit that oversees the world's most watched sporting event was looking for a new president. How do you run for FIFA president? What's the process like for choosing a president of FIFA?

[Jonathan Clegg]

FIFA operates like any sort of democratic institution. So it's one country, one vote. And whoever gets the most votes becomes president. And I think there were five in the running to replace Bladder.

[Ryan Knutson]

The man who ended up winning the job was Johnny Infantino. He'd been in charge of UEFA, the European soccer body, and he promised big changes at FIFA. My colleagues Jonathan Clegg and Joshua Robinson told me the story.

[Jonathan Clegg]

His platform was basically make FIFA great again. Essentially, yes. It was like radical transparency change we can believe in.

[Joshua Robinson]

Exactly. And he was gonna get FIFA back to its roots loving football.

[Jonathan Clegg]

This organization that has operated for too long in the shadows and has now been found, you know, allowed all this corruption to ran rampant, will be brought up to sort of modern standards. There will be a much greater focus on ethical behavior and all the bad stuff that happened under set bladder will no longer happen.

[Ryan Knutson]

That was back in 2016. Infantino has now been president of FIFA for a decade. And over that time, Josh and John say that Infantino's big promises to the fans haven't come through.

[Jonathan Clegg]

I think the World cup certainly as far as FIFA and Infantino are concerned, has ceased to be a tournament about the fans. And that's again something that we're witnessing now in the 2026 World cup when the considerations of fans seem to be, you know, the last thing on FIFA's mind.

[Ryan Knutson]

From the Journal this is our two part Sunday special on the World Cup. Hi, I'm ryan Knudsen. It's June 14th. Coming up, part two how far can Johnny Infantino take the World Cup? This episode of the Journal is brought to you by. Harvey. An AI platform designed for legal and professional services. Built and tested by lawyers. Harvey is trusted by more than 60% of the AmLaw100. The platform dramatically reduces time spent on research, drafting and document review without sacrificing quality, all while meeting the highest industry standards for security and compliance. Harvey AI tailored for law. Visit Harvey AI to learn more and request a demo. Johnny Infantino became FIFA president in 2016. He's part Swiss, Italian and Lebanese. He's bald, has thick eyebrows and often wears a dark suit and white sneakers.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Welcome. Bienvenidos. Bienvenue. Ben Vindos, Benvenuti, Vilcoman, Ahlan, Wasahlan. In all the languages of the world, of course.

[Ryan Knutson]

In the early on, he tried to differentiate himself from the corruption scandals that happened under his predecessor, Sepp Blatter.

[Joshua Robinson]

He's pledged to organize regular matches at FIFA headquarters in which he often plays. I personally watched him take one of the worst corner kicks I've ever seen anyone who's kicked a ball take.

[Ryan Knutson]

So he plays, but not maybe super

[Joshua Robinson]

well, but not especially well.

[Jonathan Clegg]

So he also surrounded himself with, like, FIFA legends. He loves a FIFA legend, great players of days of yore. He would spend a lot of time palling around with those to sort of emphasize his relationship with the players and the fans. Because I think that one of the other things about the bladder era is that FIFA had come to feel very distant from the players who play in the World cup and the fans who fund the whole thing.

[Joshua Robinson]

He also early on made headlines because he was going to control FIFA's costs. And so he started flying on easyjets around Europe.

[Ryan Knutson]

A low budget European airline.

[Joshua Robinson]

Exactly.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Infantino was sort of promised to bring the game back to the fans and have them be a much more sort of powerful constituency in how the organization operated going forward. Every day should be about joy, about fun, about passion. And we have to take ourselves a little bit less serious.

[Ryan Knutson]

We have to be serious. Fans didn't feel taken care of. They were upset about FIFA's decision to hold the 2022 World cup in Qatar.

[Jonathan Clegg]

It wasn't just the countries bidding to host the tournament who were dismayed by the decision to award it to Qatar. It was also the fans who had to go to the middle of a desert in the height of summer who also felt that their interests weren't being looked after by FIFA.

[Ryan Knutson]

But Infantino decided not to revisit that decision.

[Joshua Robinson]

And that becomes very clear from the moment he's elected that that decision will not be questioned. This is the lot that he's been handed, and he's going to execute these World Cups as best he can. If one thing becomes clear very early on, it's that the only thing Johnny Infantino loves as much as he loves soccer is proximity to power.

[Ryan Knutson]

There's one image of Infantino that Josh says was a symbol of where his presidency at FIFA was headed. It comes from the opening match at the 2018 World cup in Russia.

[Joshua Robinson]

The opening game pitted Russia against Saudi Arabia. And there is Johnny sitting between Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, and Vladimir Putin. And as Russia absolutely dismantles Saudi Arabia, Infantino is looking over to MBS and making these sheepish faces seriously awkward.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Awkward shrugs.

[Ryan Knutson]

The 2018 World cup in Russia went smoothly. France won again. Josh was happy.

[Jonathan Clegg]

It is France. Allez les bleu.

[Joshua Robinson]

That was sort of this big full circle emotional moment for me personally, but that's very boring to talk about.

[Ryan Knutson]

No, this is why sports are the best. After that, it was Qatar's turn to host. In the lead up to the 2022 World cup, there was consistent criticism over human rights issues there. Homosexuality is illegal. And media outlets were reporting on poor working conditions and deaths of migrant workers.

[Jonathan Clegg]

There are just days to go before the start of the World cup in Qatar, but the build up to the event has been blighted by safety concerns. Now at bb, Investigations uncovered evidence that migrants working on infrastructure projects in the final months before the tournament have died or suffered abuse despite assurance this was

[Joshua Robinson]

the main topic of the buildup. This was a topic that came up every time Infantino appeared in public.

[Ryan Knutson]

How did he answer those questions?

[Jonathan Clegg]

Well, he did it very memorably.

[Joshua Robinson]

Yes, he did. First of all, his general approach was to say, we take the World cup into these countries to shine a light in places and look at what a great job Qatar has done, actually updating its systems and changing the way it behaves and the way it handles migrant labor. But then, before the kickoff of the actual tournament, sitting in the press conference room in Doha, he gave the single most memorable press conference I've ever been at.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Today I feel gay.

[Joshua Robinson]

And this was Infantino addressing all of the disenfranchised constituencies.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Today I feel disabled of Qatar and

[Joshua Robinson]

saying he was with them.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Today I feel a migrant worker and

[Joshua Robinson]

that Qatar had done a great job enfranchising them.

[Ryan Knutson]

What did you make of that? Like, what did that say about Infantino's leadership and what he was doing as president?

[Jonathan Clegg]

I think it sort of reinforced the idea that this was a guy who was sort of a little bit out of touch with, you know, how most football fans were thinking, most soccer fans were thinking.

[Ryan Knutson]

And was there, like, evidence that Qatar had actually done better on these fronts, that it had made an effort to.

[Jonathan Clegg]

I think. I think there's absolutely no question that they have. Yeah, that the conditions for migrant workers did improve, you know, partly as a result of the kind of spotlight that was shone on Qatar after winning the World Cup.

[Ryan Knutson]

It's not clear exactly how many migrant workers died in Qatar? Some human rights groups put the figure in the hundreds. The government of Qatar said at the time that the number is 37. In addition to speaking out publicly in support of Qatar, FIFA made some big concessions in order to make the World cup in Qatar possible. Like, they came up with a novel solution to the problem of hosting a soccer tournament during a sweltering Qatari summer.

[Joshua Robinson]

They solved that problem too, not just by air conditioning the stadiums, but also by moving the entire tournament out of summer for the first time ever.

[Ryan Knutson]

Oh, that's right.

[Joshua Robinson]

Which was just a crazy, unprecedented thing that no one ever thought was possible because the World cup is synonymous with summer.

[Ryan Knutson]

The 2022 World cup took place in November and December.

[Jonathan Clegg]

It really is like a completely crazy thing that they did that, you know, sort of the equivalent of moving the super bowl to the middle of like October.

[Ryan Knutson]

Cause it was like during the middle of the season for other place.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Right, exactly. The sort of professional soccer calendar runs from sort of September until June. And so to move the sort of most important tournament in soccer right into the middle of that, it would be like asking the NFL to shut down, you know, on Thanksgiving for a month. It's just ludicrous.

[Ryan Knutson]

To move the World cup to the winter, FIFA had to dole out hundreds of millions of dollars to the professional sports leagues who employ those players during the season. And the players union was mad about how this would affect athletes upcoming off season. It was also a major disruption for sports broadcasters.

[Jonathan Clegg]

It hugely affected the European broadcasters who were now, you know, suddenly finding that they had tournaments put on in the lead up to Christmas.

[Ryan Knutson]

We were supposed to be airing Home Alone.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Two Die Hard reruns are supposed to

[Ryan Knutson]

be greatest Christmas movie of all time.

[Jonathan Clegg]

And instead we have England, Senegal. So like I say, an earth shadowing decision to move the summer World cup to the winter.

[Ryan Knutson]

Then, 48 hours before the tournament started, Qatar sprang a surprise on soccer fans in town for the games.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Football fans will no longer be allowed to buy alcohol around World cup stadiums. This very late decision comes ahead of the opening game in Qatar on Sunday.

[Ryan Knutson]

That. I remember that. That was. That was wild.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Yeah, that. That was almost as shocking as decision to award Qatar the World cup in the first place. I mean, a World cup without beer

[Ryan Knutson]

is like a World cup without a ball.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Exactly.

[Ryan Knutson]

Do you feel like this typified in some ways the way FIFA was changing the things that you were seeing with what happened with Qatar?

[Jonathan Clegg]

I mean, I think. I think it's certainly. So the beer thing, the decision on Beer was another example of how FIFA has sort of ceded so much power to the countries that are hosting the World cup that they were essentially, you know, being held hostage by Qatar, who had the World cup and were then able to sort of act as they wanted. You know, FIFA charges Budweiser, you know, millions of dollars to be its primary alcohol sponsor. And the idea that they would be prohibited from selling anything other than Budzero at the tournament was a huge black eye for them and a huge problem for their marketing arm going forward.

[Ryan Knutson]

At the time, FIFA said it appreciated the support of Budweiser's parent company, AB InBev, to, quote, cater to everyone at the 2022 World Cup.

[Joshua Robinson]

I think what it really shows is that at this stage, Infantino was presiding over a FIFA that didn't so much organize the World cup or own the World cup, but was in the business of renting it to various countries.

[Ryan Knutson]

Why was FIFA willing to do all of this? I mean, it feels, it seems like FIFA was really bending over backwards just to make this happen in Qatar.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Well, I think FIFA needs to sort of expand its horizons. And I think, you know, early on, like probably before anyone else really, FIFA recognized that the Gulf and the Middle east was gonna be this huge source of income for them.

[Ryan Knutson]

There's all these big funds, these sovereign wealth funds have all this money that are trying to invest in a lot of sport.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Exactly.

[Ryan Knutson]

It's not a huge fan base necessarily. There's not a lot a big pop. I mean, Qatar and doesn't have a huge population.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Qatar, the uae? Yes. Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia now, you know, again, yes, not huge soccer loving public even, but yes, deep pocketed sovereign wealth funds who had sort of discovered that the sport of soccer was a very effective tool with which to advertise their countries to the rest of the world.

[Ryan Knutson]

After Qatar, Infantino had another big money opportunity for FIFA on the HORIZThe 2026 World cup in the US the biggest, most lucrative sports market in the world. To capitalize on this important opportunity, Infantino developed a close relationship with President Donald Trump.

[Jonathan Clegg]

He knows that he also has a job to do as FIFA president, which is he is also responsible for sort of shining the halo of the World cup on whichever world leader happens to be hosting the next tournament. And he knows that it's the legitimacy of soccer and the World cup that those people are looking for when they decide to host the tournament.

[Joshua Robinson]

And I think we're seeing that more clearly than ever now in his repeated visits to the host of the next World Cup. Donald Trump

[Ryan Knutson]

can You introduce us to the Trump Infantino relationship. How well do these two men know each other and what do we know about their relationship at this point?

[Jonathan Clegg]

They know each other very well, mostly because Gianni Infantino has spent most of the last 18 months following Trump around the world to all manner of media availabilities and, you know, diplomatic missions. He was standing by Trump's side at the Gaza Peace Summit. He has been a regular visitor to the Oval Office. He was at Trump's inauguration.

[Ryan Knutson]

Trump even gave him a shout out at an inauguration celebration.

[Jonathan Clegg]

So, Johnny, thank you for the World cup and everybody, thank you for the Olympics. Infantino has traveled the globe sometimes with very short turnarounds to make sure that he is on hand whenever Trump might need it.

[Joshua Robinson]

Infantino loves being close to power. He loves being made to feel important. And in Trump, he kind of found a kindred spirit.

[Jonathan Clegg]

It's no exaggeration to say that Infantino considers himself a global leader, you know, in the same sphere as Trump and Putin. He considers himself a sort of world changing humanitarian.

[Ryan Knutson]

A White House official said that President Trump and Infantino share a genuine friendship built on a common vision. This friendship was on full display at the World cup draw held last December. The draw is when the match schedule and the lineup for the World cup games are set. It was a snazzy event held at the Kennedy center in Washington, D.C. with sports stars and soccer officials in the audience.

[Joshua Robinson]

It was snowing outside. Everyone had been made to queue for hours outside in the snow.

[Ryan Knutson]

But the draw wasn't the only highlight of the evening. Infantino was presenting a new award, the FIFA Peace Prize.

[Joshua Robinson]

We pile into the auditorium and Infantino makes a special presentation of the FIFA Peace Prize, which is a trophy and a medal. There's, you know, everything had been created specifically for this moment.

[Ryan Knutson]

On stage, Infantino stood next to President Trump and gave him that award.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Mr. President, this is your prize. This is your Peace Prize.

[Ryan Knutson]

Infantino showered praise on Trump. He hailed the words that Trump had taken credit for stopping or preventing.

[Jonathan Clegg]

A beautiful medal for you that you can wear everywhere you want to go

[Joshua Robinson]

right now.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Okay, let me hold. Fantastic. Excellent.

[Joshua Robinson]

It's no secret that Donald Trump would love to win a Nobel Peace Prize.

[Ryan Knutson]

He's talked about this.

[Joshua Robinson]

That doesn't seem to be on the cards at the moment. But Gianni Infantino, gracious guest that he is, figured, hang on, we can do the next best thing, the FIFA Peace Prize.

[Jonathan Clegg]

You know, the entire thing was actually presented to an audience of one. It was literally the whole show was made For Trump, there were, you know, usa, USA chants, there was the Village People played, there was the Peace Prize. And I think you're going to have

[Ryan Knutson]

an event the likes of which maybe

[Joshua Robinson]

the world has never seen, based on

[Jonathan Clegg]

the enthusiasm that I've seen.

[Ryan Knutson]

I have never seen anything like it.

[Joshua Robinson]

We've had.

[Ryan Knutson]

I still don't get it, though. Like, why. Why would Infantino do this? Why create this award for Trump? I mean, what does it. What does he get out of it? What does it do for FIFA?

[Joshua Robinson]

I think there's an understanding at FIFA that Trump is an unpredictable character, an unpredictable host for this tournament, and FIFA hates that. FIFA wants absolute guarantees. FIFA wants a free hand, knowing that everything is gonna run very smoothly. And so I think Infantino's thinking is that the more he can placate Trump, make him feel that this tournament is worth having and actually going to benefit him, then the freer hand FIFA will have.

[Ryan Knutson]

Right. Because Trump is somebody who might say, you've upset me if they, you know, I'm going to make this, make life difficult for you.

[Joshua Robinson]

There were legitimate fears that they would pull games from Mexico.

[Ryan Knutson]

Hmm.

[Joshua Robinson]

It hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's going to happen in the time before the tournament. But there were legitimate fears that at some point, citing immigration concerns, Trump would say, actually, those three state venues in Mexico just have them in the U.S.

[Ryan Knutson]

fIFA has said that soccer unites the world and that the Peace Prize recognizes those helping to unite people. How is it viewed in the soccer world that these fans that tuned in to see, you know, the draw are now watching Trump receive a Peace prize, the first ever from a soccer organization.

[Jonathan Clegg]

I mean, I think it was viewed as completely ludicrous, completely ridiculous by soccer lovers around the world who could see, you know, through what was a very transparent attempt to placate the US President.

[Ryan Knutson]

What the hell did FIFA just do? President Trump just became the first ever winner of FIFA's new Peace Prize. Yeah, you heard that right. FIFA now gives out peace prizes. As this year's World cup approached, fans weren't only complaining about Infantino currying favor with Trump.

[Jonathan Clegg]

There are already grumblings about how much it's going to cost people to go to these games.

[Ryan Knutson]

That's next.

[Jonathan Clegg]

This episode is brought to you by Optum. Healthcare doesn't always work great. If you ever waited on a refill or couldn't schedule an appointment, you get it. That's what Optum is changing. They're using data and technology to integrate patient care, pharmacy, and everything else. So Healthcare is connected, not complicated. That means cheaper prescriptions that are easier to get and care that looks at the whole person how you need it. Optum is making healthcare work as one for everyone. Learn [e-mail]

[Ryan Knutson]

if you're enjoying our deep dive into the World cup, you might like some of our other coverage about the business of sports.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Essentially, these are a group of hustlers,

[Ryan Knutson]

for lack of a better word, people

[Joshua Robinson]

that are in the sports gambling space

[Ryan Knutson]

at its most elite levels. There is a very ugly side to

[Jonathan Clegg]

it that basically turns the best high

[Ryan Knutson]

school players into commodities that can just be sold around like their assets. Follow or subscribe to the Journal, our daily podcast about money, business and power. Episodes are out every weekday afternoon. Now let's get back to soccer. A lot of things are different about this year's World Cup. For one, it's going to be hosted in three different countries, the U.S. mexico, and Canada. The other thing is that there are 48 teams in this year's tournament. That's a big jump from the 32 teams it used to be. Since there will be more games in this World cup than ever before, FIFA will sell more tickets and there will be more hours of sport to broadcast and more room to sell ads, which means more revenue for FIFA.

[Jonathan Clegg]

And that's another reason why the fact that the World cup has ended up here again was not a huge surprise when the US was named as one of the hosts for 2026 is because by then it had become clear that Gianni Infantino saw his role as FIFA president as essentially the man to fill FIFA's coffers with as much money as humanly possible. He had already started tossing around proposals to make the World cup an every two year tournament rather than an every four year tournament.

[Ryan Knutson]

Got it. Which of course, that would have made even more money for FIFA.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Exactly.

[Joshua Robinson]

Well, FIFA expects the originally cited figure was going to be around $11 billion. They've revised that and now think they'll probably net 15 billion.

[Ryan Knutson]

They'll make like they'll earn $15 billion is what they're expecting.

[Joshua Robinson]

They're expecting revenues of $15 billion.

[Ryan Knutson]

How does that compare to prior World Cups?

[Joshua Robinson]

It blows all of them out of the water.

[Ryan Knutson]

And FIFA is using very American language to market this tournament. Here's Infantino.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Well, it will be a fantastic event. There will be one hundred and four Super Bowls in one month. The world will stand still and observe the biggest global event that humanity has ever seen.

[Joshua Robinson]

Well, Gianni has been to the super bowl many times. He loves to show up there and 104 Super Bowls is the shorthand that he came up with and was so pleased by that he started trumpeting it everywhere.

[Ryan Knutson]

It got my attention.

[Joshua Robinson]

And I think the idea to him is that every one of those games can rival the people who tune in for the Super Bowl. Because to every country participating in the World cup, every time they see that national team is a Super bowl globally,

[Ryan Knutson]

it's got that kind of level of world attention.

[Jonathan Clegg]

FIFA doesn't really hide the fact that it expects this to be an incredibly lucrative tournament. And that's one of the sort of advantages of holding the game here. It is clearly in the business of making as much money as possible from these tournaments.

[Ryan Knutson]

But as the start of the World cup came closer, FIFA encountered an unexpected problem.

[Jonathan Clegg]

I love soccer, but the more I hear about this World cup, the more I'm like, who exactly is this for?

[Ryan Knutson]

This has to be the worst one. Eleven and a half million dollars for one ticket. And look at the seats you get. Roll 22. But I wish that the FIFA Commission

[Jonathan Clegg]

and the United States had made some

[Ryan Knutson]

form of protection from price gouging and scalping of tickets.

[Jonathan Clegg]

£5,000 for England versus Croatia.

[Joshua Robinson]

I love you, England.

[Ryan Knutson]

I love you.

[Joshua Robinson]

But no, I mean, the most notorious example which we've written about is the U.S. opener against Paraguay. That's probably the most consequential U.S. men's national team game in a generation. They are hosts at home, expected to, you know, at least go some distance in the tournament. And, you know, they're playing in an incredible venue. They're at SOFI Stadium, which is the home of the LA Rams, and that is a $5 billion venue.

[Ryan Knutson]

But about six weeks before the game, thousands of tickets were still available, and most tickets were over $1,000 each.

[Joshua Robinson]

Tells us that US fans, you know, as excited as they are about this team, know better than to go spend their life savings to see them play against Paraguay and maybe draw.

[Ryan Knutson]

So when did it start to become clear that maybe there was some weakness, let's say, in the fan appetite for this World Cup?

[Joshua Robinson]

It all comes down to two words that FIFA loves, and that's dynamic pricing. And that from the very first rounds of ticket balloting, that became clear it was a problem, because what dynamic pricing means is that they never post an absolute list of ticket prices, and it allows them to constantly tweak the price based on demand. Demand goes up, the prices go up as well.

[Ryan Knutson]

Fans were especially mad about the ticket application process, or you had to enter your credit card information before knowing how much the ticket would even cost.

[Jonathan Clegg]

You could be on the hook for, like, sort of thousands of dollars coming out of your account without really knowing whether you were going to get tickets in the first place.

[Joshua Robinson]

Every bit of ticketing for this tournament has been a fiasco from the prices, from fans feeling like they were, miss. Sold what they were buying, and, you know, the lack of communication on actually how do you get tickets to this tournament? Which I think is the question John and I have been asked most often for the past year and a half. We don't really have a good answer.

[Jonathan Clegg]

The outcry over the price of tickets was very swift and very loud. And even FIFA heard it because shortly after the draw was made and the tickets went on sale, they realized that they had, you know, screwed up and introduced a small number of tickets that were available for much cheaper price so that they could say that it is theoretically possible for people to go see their team progress through this World cup and not pay significantly more than they had done in previous tournaments. But it was a very small fraction of tickets, like much less than sort of 10% of the stadium.

[Joshua Robinson]

It was in the hundreds.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Yeah.

[Ryan Knutson]

Infantino was said that FIFA was simply pricing the World cup tickets according to what the market would bear and that it was better for FIFA to capture the revenue than to divert it to ticket resellers. He added that FIFA has said it sold 90% of tickets for this year's games. Ticket sales, we've, been, we, We've. We've talked about are really expensive, but there's also, like, empty hotel rooms. Train prices are really expensive. Can you talk about just like, this sort of summer of price gouging that we've been hearing about?

[Jonathan Clegg]

Yeah, I mean, and, and some of this is, like, is on FIFA and some of it is. Is on the sort of, like, local authorities and the cities that are putting on these games. But, yeah, there is just an overwhelming sense that the prices for this summer's World cup are really out of control. But it's, it's not just the tickets. It's the whole matchday experience. It's the hotels, it's the transit to get there. It's, you know, the price of concessions. It's. Everything about it is just degrees higher than people were used to paying in the past. And so you've seen, you know, huge banks of hotel rooms suddenly become available, which FIFA had reserved in anticipation of, you know, fans or delegates coming out to those games. And now they are all, like, hitting the market, you know, days before the tournaments due to Begin.

[Ryan Knutson]

So are prices coming down a bit?

[Jonathan Clegg]

I think prices for some of the sort of low key games are starting to come back to earth. And it is possible to sort of now, in the very last days before the tournament begins, it is possible to sort of get tickets that aren't, you know, much more than face value.

[Ryan Knutson]

Did FIFA maybe bank too much on this tournament in the United States in a country that maybe doesn't quite have as much soccer appetite?

[Jonathan Clegg]

Yeah, I think, you know, I think FIFA was, was definitely sort of more focused on the, you know, disposable income of American sports fans rather than their actual, you know, deep passion for soccer. But FIFA was aware that Russia and Qatar were two tournaments that probably wouldn't pull in as many fans, you know, actually attending the games as previous tournaments that they had in Germany or France or even South Africa. And so the US And Canada and Mexico were very attractive places to host the tournament because they expected lots of tourists to come. And I think they've just miscalculated.

[Ryan Knutson]

How important is it for FIFA to conquer the US market, or at least even like seize the opportunity to make as much money as possible?

[Joshua Robinson]

The list of territories for soccer to conquer is shorter all the time. But the biggest market left out there where there is that sacred combination of media access and disposable income is the US and we've seen it with other sports too, where every other major league based outside the US covets that market. And we saw it happen with Formula One where they pointed, you know, the entire sport at the United States in the drive to survive era.

[Jonathan Clegg]

The cricket World cup was held here, right? You may not remember because no one watched, but it was held here.

[Ryan Knutson]

That sport's got a bit further to go than soccer. But John and Josh say that for soccer fans there could be some downsides to the usification of sports.

[Jonathan Clegg]

I think one of the sort of great things about the World cup is that as it goes to a new host every time, the World cup feels a little bit different. And you get to see how each new host experiences soccer and how the soccer culture works in that country. And I guess one of the sort of concerns about hosting the World cup here in the US it just might not feel very different to the sort of sports that we consume all the time. And part of that is North American sports. The way that North American sports are broadcast and shown has sort of taken over the whole world. Every sports league across the world wants to be more like the NFL. And as every sports league becomes the NFL, they all start to look the same.

[Joshua Robinson]

We've got a halftime show in the final for the first time.

[Jonathan Clegg]

There's going to be a halftime show.

[Ryan Knutson]

A halftime show.

[Jonathan Clegg]

There are going to be drinks breaks where commercials are shown. You know, these are things that are sort of like the staples of, like, American sports broadcasting, but are not staples of the World Cup.

[Joshua Robinson]

I think we know how it's going to come out. We know that what the discourse is going to sound like from the British press, from everyone else. It's gonna be like we can't quite put our fingers on it, but this is just too American.

[Ryan Knutson]

I mean, a halftime show, it really does feel like it's just they're trying to monetize every element of it.

[Jonathan Clegg]

And soccer fans are really, like, purists. Exactly. Like, more than any other sport because of its, like, roots as community. It started out as, like, you know, riots between different villages. And, you know, there is a sort of purity, snobbery, whatever you want to call it, about how soccer fans sort of view the sport. And so they are very sensitive to those sorts of things.

[Ryan Knutson]

Infantino said a halftime show at the World cup final would, quote, touch the hearts of the people. I feel like the World cup is sort of reaching this point that a lot of sports leagues are. Right now I'm thinking about the NBA in particular, where it's like, they've been so successful, made so much money, and suddenly there's a little bit of a moment of crisis, of, like, are we doing too much? Are there too many games? Is it too much saturation? The NFL has been milking as much as it possibly can. Now there's. It used to be Sundays and Monday Night Football, and now it's almost every night of the week there's a game. And, like, how are we reaching this point where we are kind of at the beginning of, not the end, but the beginning of a downturn?

[Jonathan Clegg]

Have we reached peak sports, you mean?

[Ryan Knutson]

Yeah, exactly. And there's so much more competition from all kinds of entertainment, from TikTok, from video games, from Twitch, you know, watching new stuff. The NFL told us that most of their extra games take place on holidays and that fans consistently say they enjoy watching them.

[Joshua Robinson]

I think if we've learned anything writing about how all of these leagues operate over the years, it's that they all have the same favorite lever, which is better get us give them more. So just keep pulling that more lever until people beg for mercy and say, actually, you know, the ratings are dipping now, but we haven't seen that happen anywhere.

[Jonathan Clegg]

And in fact, as we know broadcasters are just more and more desperate to get stuff that. Because live sports is still the only thing that really can regularly draw the audience that it wants.

[Ryan Knutson]

And this is the more est of more World Cups.

[Joshua Robinson]

It's the maximum more.

[Ryan Knutson]

So it's like the maximum World Cup. They're going all in. So do you think FIFA is maybe now too big to fail?

[Jonathan Clegg]

Yes, I do. Yeah. When we were talking about what FIFA did to bend over backwards for Qatar, if you can move the World cup from the summer to the winter, if you can stage the tournament with no alcohol sales, you know, I think that you probably feel like you can do anything, that the World cup can be anything that you want it to be. When Sepp Blatter assumed the role of FIFA president 30 years ago, the World cup was a 24 team tournament that took place in June and July and it has now mushroomed into a 48 team tournament. And maybe we'll do the World cup every two years. And now the World cup is hosted in three countries instead of just one. You know, the World cup is a much more sort of malleable thing than it was before.

[Ryan Knutson]

Who do you think is going to win? You pass.

[Jonathan Clegg]

I'm contractually obliged to say that I think England has a good chance, but I think France has the best.

[Ryan Knutson]

The best. Oh, Josh.

[Jonathan Clegg]

Woo.

[Ryan Knutson]

You feeling good?

[Joshua Robinson]

I mean, I can't jinx it, but I feel good about them.

[Ryan Knutson]

The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. This episode was produced by Piers Singhe with help from Tatiana Zamis. It was edited by Pia Gaykari. I'm Ryan Knutson. Special thanks to Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Katherine Brewer and Sarah Platt. Fact checking by Nicole Pasulka. Mixing by Griffin Tanner with help from Sam Baer. Our theme music is by so Wiley and remixed by Peter Leonard and Griffin Tanner. Additional music in this episode by Bobby Lord, Griffin Tanner and Blue Dot Sessions. We'll be back tomorrow with a regular episode. Thanks for listening. See you then.