Trump 2.0: A Fast Start to a Second Term

Summary

Summary of “Trump 2.0: A Fast Start to a Second Term”
The Journal – The Wall Street Journal & Gimlet
Release Date: January 24, 2025
Hosts: Ryan Knutson, Molly Ball
Episode Focus: President Donald Trump's first 100 days in his second term, with emphasis on executive orders, Justice Department reforms, and the administration's strategic direction.

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1. Introduction: Setting the Stage

Ryan Knutson and Molly Ball reopen The Journal after a brief hiatus, shifting focus from the 2024 election series to President Donald Trump’s inaugural period of his second term. They set the tone by highlighting the intensity and rapid pace of Trump’s initial actions in office.

Molly Ball remarks on the aggressive start:

"[...] an inauguration address that really pulled no punches. Very aggressive and very aggressive first week with a flurry of presidential activity, including dozens and dozens of executive orders and actions and proclamations and what have you."
[00:28]

2. Executive Orders: Volume and Focus

The hosts delve into the myriad of executive orders signed by Trump, emphasizing their alignment with campaign promises and strategic priorities.

Key Areas Addressed:

• Immigration:

  • Designating Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations.
  • Curtailing asylum processes beyond previous administrations.
  • Proclaiming the end of birthright citizenship, a move expected to face legal challenges.

  Molly Ball notes the administration's prioritization of immigration over the economy:

  "He believes that immigration is the number one reason he was elected and the number one issue he was hired by the voters to tackle."
  [01:39]

  Christina Averill adds a contrasting voter perspective:

  "They all said inflation was the number one issue."
  [05:07]

• Culture Wars:

  • Ending Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs in the federal government and federal contracting.
  • Proclaiming that the federal government will no longer recognize transgender identity.

• Economic Policies:

  • Directing the federal government to bring down prices, a broadly defined mandate with symbolic intent but unclear mechanisms.

  Molly Ball critiques the vagueness of the price reduction order:

  "[...] it's more symbolic in practice, but at least you can point to it and say, see, I ordered them to bring down prices."
  [06:07]

3. Effectiveness and Limitations of Executive Orders

The discussion acknowledges that while executive orders can swiftly implement policies within the executive branch’s purview, their longevity and effectiveness are contingent on legal standing and future administrations.

Molly Ball explains:

"Some of these executive orders have the force of law, because they are within the purview of the executive branch... some are just notional... others are not within the President's authority."
[09:16]

4. The Justice Department and “Ending the Weaponization of the Federal Government”

A significant portion of the episode explores Trump’s executive order targeting the Justice Department (DOJ), aiming to purge perceived political biases and assert executive control.

Key Points:

• Scope of the Order:

  • Mandates a comprehensive review of DOJ activities under the previous administration for bias.
  • Potential punitive actions against DOJ employees, including job relocations, marginalization, and legal threats.

  Christina Averill characterizes the order as:

  "A roadmap for the retribution that Trump promised against the Justice Department..."
  [12:41]

• Pardoning January 6th Participants:

  • Trump pardoned approximately 1,500 individuals involved in the Capitol riot, a move wider than initially anticipated.

  Christina Averill expresses surprise:

  "I was surprised because even in recent days, he had been telling people close to him that he would consider granting clemency to these people on a case by case basis."
  [14:34]

  Molly Ball observes the political risks:

  "It's not popular... He is valorizing not just pardoning, but valorizing these rioters."
  [15:34]

5. Nomination of Pam Bondi as Attorney General

Trump’s nominee, Pam Bondi, is positioned as a strategic choice to lead the DOJ in alignment with his administration’s objectives.

Highlights:

• Nomination Process:

  • Bondi replaces Matt Gaetz, who withdrew amid misconduct allegations.
  • Bondi presents herself as capable of maintaining DOJ’s independence while aligning with Trump’s agenda.

  Christina Averill describes Bondi’s confirmation stance:

  "She sought to sort of walk this line between Trump's ardent defender and this sort of old school, traditional, tough on crime prosecutor."
  [17:49]

• Reactions and Implications:

  • Favorable reception among Republican senators, strong opposition from Democrats.
  • Potential for significant reshaping of DOJ policies and priorities.

  Christina Averill assesses:

  "Throughout the hearing, she basically echoed the central criticisms that Trump has been saying... She certainly shares that view."
  [18:16]

6. Internal DOJ Dynamics and Future Outlook

The hosts discuss the internal response within the DOJ and anticipate future developments under Bondi’s leadership.

Key Insights:

• Staff Reactions:

  • Career DOJ employees are apprehensive about job security and the erosion of institutional integrity.

  Christina Averill states:

  "There are just a lot of bad feelings within the bureau."
  [19:05]

• Long-Term Implications:

  • Potential for DOJ to become an extension of Trump’s agenda, undermining its historical independence.
  • Monitoring of senior DOJ officials’ compliance with new directives.

  Molly Ball and Christina Averill emphasize the historical significance and potential shifts in DOJ’s role.

7. Trump’s Consolidated Power and Political Strategy

The episode concludes with an analysis of Trump’s consolidated power base and strategic maneuvers within the broader political landscape.

Discussion Points:

• Power Consolidation:

  • Trump enters with robust support from a reoriented Republican Party.
  • Alignment with tech CEOs on content moderation policies aligns with his administration’s broader cultural stances.

  Molly Ball reflects on Trump’s preparedness:

  "He spent his four years out of power, building his political power, building his political movement, taking over the Republican Party in a very intentional way."
  [21:59]

• Challenges Ahead:

  • Narrow GOP majority constraining legislative flexibility.
  • Reliance on unilateral executive actions to bypass congressional gridlock.

  Molly Ball cautions:

  "President almost inevitably overreach when they get into office, and that's why you almost always have that first midterm election going in the other direction."
  [22:29]

8. Conclusion and Forward Look

Ryan Knutson and Molly Ball wrap up by acknowledging the transformative and contentious start of Trump’s second term, setting the stage for ongoing scrutiny of his administration’s policies and their impacts.

Molly Ball anticipates continued developments:

"It's just gonna keep being fascinating, fascinating and fascinating."
[24:00]

---

Notable Quotes:

• Molly Ball [02:28]: "It's going to be a much more intense and focused administration than the first time around."
• Christina Averill [05:07]: "They all said inflation was the number one issue."
• Molly Ball [06:07]: "It's more symbolic in practice, but at least you can point to it and say, see, I ordered them to bring down prices."
• Christina Averill [12:41]: "This is basically, I see it as a roadmap for the retribution that Trump promised against the Justice Department..."
• Molly Ball [15:34]: "He is valorizing not just pardoning, but valorizing these rioters."
• Christina Averill [18:16]: "She certainly shares that view. There's basically no daylight between them in terms of the types of changes that they think need to be made to this institution."

---

This episode provides a comprehensive overview of President Trump's strategic maneuvers in his second term's initial phase, highlighting the aggressive use of executive orders, significant shifts within the Justice Department, and the broader implications for American politics and institutional integrity.

Transcript

[Ryan Knudsen]

Hey, Molly.

[Molly Ball]

Hey, Ryan.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So it's been 78 days, not that I'm keeping track, since our last episode of Red, White and who, our special series on the 2024 election.

[Molly Ball]

I thought you'd never have me back.

[Ryan Knudsen]

No, Molly, of course I'd have you back. I just, you know, I wanted some, you know, downtime.

[Molly Ball]

Right. We've been through a lot, Ryan, and we needed some space.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Yeah, ye. Yeah. But. So we're back now, and instead of covering the race to the White House, we're gonna talk about President Donald Trump's first 100 days in office.

[Molly Ball]

His second first 100 days in office.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Right, of course. So how would you describe the first week of Trump's second first 100 days in office?

[Molly Ball]

I would term it intense. And we had reason to expect this from the transition, which was also pretty intense. You know, the last 78 days since you and I spoke have also been pretty action packed. Despite my desire to go into hibernation, we didn't get a few months off. And he's really hit the ground running. You know, an inauguration address that really pulled no punches. Very aggressive and very aggressive first week with a flurry of presidential activity, including dozens and dozens of executive orders and actions and proclamations and what have you.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So what do you think this first week tells us about what his administration is going to be like over the next four years?

[Molly Ball]

It's going to be a much more intense and focused administration than the first time around. He had four years out of power to really plan what he would do if he got back in, and a lot of people around him putting a lot of thought into what exactly that would look like, knowing where the levers of power are, knowing what a president can do or can try to do. So they wanted to hit the ground running, and they really have.

[Ryan Knudsen]

All right, well, it's time for us to hit the ground running. From the Journal, this is Trump 2.0. I'm Ryan Knudsen.

[Molly Ball]

And I'm Molly Ball.

[Ryan Knudsen]

It's Friday, January 24th. Coming up, executive orders, the Justice Department, and a fast start to Trump's second term.

[Molly Ball]

Here we go. This episode is brought to you by Workday. Get the whole band together with Workday and pair finance and HR on one platform for an epic performance. With Workday AI at the core, you'll make confident decisions faster than ever, and you'll drive flawless business and finance operations with an agile platform that constantly evolves. To future proof your organization, be a Finance and HR Rockstar. With Workday, visit workday.com to learn more.

[Ryan Knudsen]

All right, so we're going to start off with one of our favorite things to do, which is to take listener questions. This question is exactly what I wanted to talk about today, which are all the executive orders that Trump signed.

[Christina Averill]

Hi, this is Christina Averill from Waukesha, Wisconsin. With all of the focus on Trump's.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Executive orders for this term, I'm curious.

[Molly Ball]

How executive orders have impacted America's policies from past presidencies.

[Christina Averill]

And are there any that really stand.

[Molly Ball]

Out to you as making a difference?

[Christina Averill]

Thanks.

[Molly Ball]

Thanks for your question, Christina. It's a great question. I think we have this misconception that executive orders are a modern thing that presidents have just started doing because they're so frustrated with Congress, and the only way for them to get things done is by whipping out the pen and going around the people who are supposed to make the laws. But that's actually not true. They've always been a feature of politics, and past presidents have used them to great effect. I mean, think of the Emancipation Proclamation. That was an executive order. Japanese internment, the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, daca, President Obama's executive order deprioritizing deportations for immigrants who came to the country illegally when they were young. So a lot of significant policymaking has been done through executive order.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So let's talk about what Trump tried to do this week. He signed a lot of executive orders using his signature Sharpie. What are some of the ones that stood out to you?

[Molly Ball]

Well, the big ones are in the areas where he made the most campaign promises, chiefly immigration. He even said in one of his inaugural speeches on Monday that even though everyone talks about the economy, he believes that immigration is the number one reason he was elected and the number one issue he was hired by the voters to tackle.

[Christina Averill]

They all said inflation was the number one issue.

[Ryan Knudsen]

I said I disagree.

[Christina Averill]

I think people coming into our country.

[Ryan Knudsen]

From prisons and from mental institutions is.

[Christina Averill]

A bigger issue for the people that I know, and I made it my number one. I talked about inflation, too. But, you know, how many times can you say that an apple has doubled in cost?

[Molly Ball]

And indeed, we saw a flurry of executive orders dealing with immigration, you know, designating the Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations, curtailing asylum even further than the Biden administration already had, and proclaiming the end of birthright citizenship, which has historically been considered a constitutional right. So that's gonna have to make its way through the courts.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Right? And it's already running into some trouble there because yesterday a federal judge temporarily blocked that executive order but there's also been a lot of executive orders on race and gender in the culture war.

[Molly Ball]

That's right. Ending DEI programs in the federal government and in federal contracting, proclaiming. Yeah. That the federal government will no longer recognize transgender identity. This is another area where Trump really feels he has a mandate. He feels like this was a big part of the campaign. Another executive order that struck me was Trump obviously was elected in large part because voters were grumpy about inflation, and he promises to bring down prices. So he issued an executive order basically directing the federal government to bring down prices. And so this is the kind of thing that's so broad and so amorphous that like, sure, we'd all like to bring down prices, but there's no actual mechanism in it for how these government departments could actually seek to do that. And so it does look like something that's more symbolic in practice, but at least you can point to it and say, see, I ordered them to bring down prices.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Uh huh. On day one, I took action.

[Molly Ball]

Exactly.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Got it.

[Molly Ball]

I was also struck by the things that he didn't issue executive orders about.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Like what?

[Molly Ball]

Chiefly tariffs. There's an executive order that sort of directs the government to study the possibility of imposing tariffs, but he repeatedly promised that he was going to impose, sweeping across the board, tariffs on allies and enemies alike on day one. And as he was sitting there signing these orders on day one, he talked about, well, maybe we'll do it on February 1st. And now he's threatening Putin with tariffs if the Ukraine war doesn't end.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Do you have a sense of why that is? Why would that be something that he might be delaying on?

[Molly Ball]

There's a lot of controversy both within the administration and in the broader community, particularly the business and financial community, about tariffs. Economists almost unanimously believe that these tariffs would disrupt the economy, economy and cause inflation to skyrocket, prices to go up.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Right. Because if you're taxing goods coming into the country at the border, that's just more prices that Americans have to pay because those goods now are more expensive.

[Molly Ball]

Well, that's what economists believe. Trump doesn't believe that. Trump has a different economic theory. It's rather exotic, but he believes it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Right. And just to say his belief is that foreign governments will pay the tariff in order to retain access to the US Market, thus boosting US Tax revenue, which isn't exactly how tariffs have typically played out in the past.

[Molly Ball]

That's exactly right. And then there's a school of thought that says he doesn't really want to do this. It's a negotiating tactic, right? He's looking for leverage so that he can get Canada and Mexico to come to the table and get an even better deal on the trade agreements that we already have with them. The problem with that is you can only make this threat so many times until people figure out that it's an empty threat. So at some point, and maybe that point is February 1st, he's going to have to either do the tariffs or not.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So when it comes to sort of following through on campaign promises, how effective are these executive orders? They're not legislation. They're obviously not permanent. Another president of a different party in four years could come in and undo them. But how effective would you say that these are in terms of him accomplishing his goals?

[Molly Ball]

The answer is it depends. Because some of these executive orders have the force of law, because they are within the purview of the executive branch, tariffs with some nuance generally fall under that category. Some of them are just sort of notional, you know, or just aren't a very big deal. Things like proclaiming that from now on the flags will always fly at full staff during presidential inaugurations. Some of them are pardons that can't be undone. The president has wide ranging unilateral pardon authority. And then some of them are not within the President's authority, or at least not believed to be within the president's authority. Things like birthright, citizenship, right courts for more than 100 years have held that that is guaranteed by the Constitution. And so there's already lawsuits around it, including from a lot of state attorneys general. And it will have to make its way through the courts to determine whether this new, novel interpretation of the Constitution is actually going to hold sway.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So one executive order that I wanted to talk about is titled Ending the Weaponization of the Federal Government and we're going to talk about this order with our colleague Sadie German, who covers the Justice Department, after this short break. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. If saving is your goal for 2025, switch to mint Mobile. They let you maximize your savings with plans that start at doll a month. When you buy a three month plan. To get this new customer offer, go to mintmobile.comjournal Tap the banner to learn more. $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply.

[Sadie German]

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[Ryan Knudsen]

All right, so I want to talk about the changes Trump is planning for the Justice Department. We've got our colleague Sadie German here, who covers the DOJ, to talk about it. Hi, Sadie.

[Christina Averill]

Hi there.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So what is this executive order ending the weaponization of the federal government? It's aimed right at the Justice Department. What is this executive order designed to do?

[Christina Averill]

So this is basically, I see it as a roadmap for the retribution that Trump promised against the Justice Department and in particular, the prosecutors who pursued criminal charges against him over the past four years. But also the Republicans have been very critical of doj, arguing that it's, you know, that it was infected with politics and that it was biased against conservatives, not just Trump. And it, you know, sought to silence certain voices. So this sweeping executive order calls for the attorney general to literally go through all of the Justice Department's work over the past four years during the Biden administration and examine it for instances of perceived bias and rectify it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Hmm. Rectify it how?

[Christina Averill]

Well, I mean, we have already started to see people being moved out of their positions, being marginalized, pushed into different roles. So they can do stuff like that, but they can also, you know, Trump and his nominees have also threatened to take legal action against employees. And people who have left the Justice Department are also in fear that they could face criminal charges, civil litigation, things like that. So there's really no limit to the way that Trump could make these DOJ employees lives hell over the next few years.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So this executive order says that one example of the weaponization of the Justice Department is the prosecutions of those who stormed the Capitol on January 6. The order calls those cases ruthless. The Biden administration, of course, has said those cases were justified. And one of Trump's other actions this week was to pardon 1500 people associated with January 6th. I know that Trump signaled during the campaign that he might pardon people who'd been prosecuted for January 6th, but were you surprised that he pardoned basically everybody on his first day in office?

[Christina Averill]

Yes, I was surprised because even in recent days, he had been telling people close to him that he would consider granting clemency to these people on a case by case basis. Vice President J.D. vance went on television and said that people who committed violence against police officers during the riot, of course, should not be pardoned.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Look, if you protested peacefully on January 6th, and you've had Merrick Garland's Department of Justice treat you like a gang member, you should be pardoned. If you committed violence on that day.

[Molly Ball]

Obviously, you shouldn't be pardoned.

[Christina Averill]

And so I definitely thought it was going to be a narrower swath of people. I mean, there are many, many people charged with misdemeanors who didn't commit violence, but there were also hundreds of people who beat cops and destroyed property and just ransacked the Capitol. So it was stunning.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Molly, what's your take on this? Do you think this is something? How do you think that this move might affect Trump politically?

[Molly Ball]

Well, it's not popular. At least it wasn't when it was asked as a hypothetical before Trump took office. Most voters are not as enthusiastic about January 6th as Trump is. He sees it as a justified and patriotic thing that his supporters did. And most Americans don't feel that way, I think, particularly about the violence and the attacks on law enforcement. And there's even some talk that Trump may invite some of the riots he's pardoned to appear with him in the White House. So he really is going all in on rewriting the history of what actually happened that day and valorizing not just pardoning, but valorizing these rioters.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Another big change Trump is planning for the department is who's gonna lead it. So his nominee for Attorney general is Pam Bondi. She actually wasn't Trump's first choice for Attorney general. He first nominated Matt Gaetz, as we may remember. But Matt Gaetz withdrew after facing sexual misconduct allegations. And then Trump nominated Pam Bondi, who's the former Attorney General for the state of Florida and has been a big supporter of Trump for a while. Sadie, how are lawmakers responding to Pam Bondi's nomination?

[Christina Averill]

I think we saw a very favorable reaction from senators during Pam Bondi's confirmation hearing. You know, of course, Democrats are strongly opposed to her. But in comparison to some of Trump's other more controversial nominees, Pam Bondi has not generated that many negative headlines. She was certainly speaking to a friendly crowd. She sought to sort of walk this line between Trump's ardent defender and this sort of old school, traditional, tough on crime prosecutor. I believe that the Justice Department must be independent and must act independently. The number one job is to enforce the law fairly and evenhandedly, and that's what will be done if I am confirmed as the Attorney General. And that was intended to appeal to both the Republican base and to sort of give a nod to the air that the Attorney General is supposed to be independent from the White House.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Does it seem like, based on how she answered questions in her confirmation hearing and things that she said in the past, that she's going to carry out Trump's objectives here when it comes to really transforming the Justice Department and, you know, quote, unquote, ending its weaponization?

[Christina Averill]

Yes, it did seem to me like she was on board with that agenda completely. I mean, she said things like, politics won't play a role in my decisions, and I'll be the one making the decisions, not the White House.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So you will provide an insurance to every member of this committee that the Justice Department will only follow the facts in the law, and the White House will play no role in cases investigated or brought.

[Christina Averill]

Senator, it will be my job, if confirmed as Attorney General, to make those decisions. Politics will not play a part. But throughout the hearing, she basically echoed the central criticisms that Trump has been saying time and time again that the Justice Department was turned into a crudge role to go after him. She certainly shares that view. There's basically no daylight between them in terms of the types of changes that they think need to be made to this institution.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Sadie, how are people inside the Justice Department reacting to this potential change in leadership and direction?

[Christina Averill]

I mean, people inside the Justice Department, the career employees, are scared. They're worried for their own jobs, but they're also feeling very angry and disappointed that the work that they've done over the past four years and beyond is bit by bit just being totally undone. And I think you saw that with the January 6th pardons. People who pursued those cases, who were detailed from other Cities to the U.S. attorney's office in Washington, D.C. for years to pursue those cases, are now seeing the effects of their work washed away to some extent. And so I think there's just a lot of bad feeling within the bureau.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Interesting.

[Molly Ball]

Can I ask you, Sadie, is this a through line, through multiple administrations of federal prosecutions being seen as more political in nature? Or has there been more continuity across administrations where, like, career prosecutors could stay there for decades and work under presidents of different parties?

[Christina Averill]

Yeah, I mean, there's always some growing pains and some changes that take place when a Republican administration comes after a Democrat and vice versa. I mean, the priorities of these parties are just different. And so, you know, there's always some movement. But this is really, really striking, and it's more intense and more poignant than it was during Trump's first administration. And I just think there's a lot less concern being paid to can we do this? It's more just like, let's do it.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Sadie, what are your big questions, or what are you going to be watching for with the Justice Department over the next hundred days and four years?

[Christina Averill]

Well, recall that Trump openly lamented choosing his first two attorneys general when they resisted some of his more extreme demands. And given what we've seen in the first few days in office, he seems more determined now than ever to bend the Justice Department to his will. And so what I will be watching for, of course, are signs of when senior Justice Department officials cave to that pressure or agree with that pressure. And I will look to see how close this historically independent institution, how much it becomes more fully an arm of Trump's agenda.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So the last question I have for you, Molly, is that it feels like President Trump is entering the White House with arguably more power than any president in a long time, certainly in my lifetime. He has this team in place that, as we've talked about, is hitting the ground running. He has both chambers of Congress. The Supreme Court is filled with three of his appointees. You're seeing the CEOs of tech companies loosen their content, moderation policies in ways that Trump has been pushing for. And there's also that Supreme Court ruling from last year that dramatically limited what a president can be held accountable for once they're out of office.

[Molly Ball]

I think the vibes have really shifted in Trump's direction. You know, when he won eight years ago, it seemed to a lot of people like sort of a fluke. He hadn't won the popular vote. So you could make the argument that actually the will of the people was to have Hillary Clinton be president. It was unexpected. Even Trump didn't expect it. He was surprised when that happened. So the transition was really bumpy, and they didn't know what they wanted to do or who they wanted to put in a lot of these positions. He's much more prepared this time. And he also, to your point, has spent his four years out of power, building his political power, building his political movement, taking over the Republican Party in a very intentional way. So the party that's behind him now, you know, he had a trifecta in 2017, but it was a trifecta of old school Republicans who wanted to do things like pass Paul Ryan's privatization of Social Security and repeal Obamacare and other things that Trump, Trump didn't really care about. Whereas now this is a much Trumpier Republican Party. They're much more on board with his agenda and his vision and just him himself. I think you're right that the culture has shifted as well. I would say, however, presidents almost inevitably overreach when they get into office, and that's why you almost always have that first midterm election going in the other direction. Right. And, you know, while he does come in with a trifecta, it's a very, very narrow trifecta. In the House in 2017, Paul Ryan could afford to lose 27 Republican votes. The current speaker, Mike Johnson, can lose two. So it's going to be really hard for them to get things done through Congress. And that's part of the reason that Trump is doing so many things unilaterally.

[Ryan Knudsen]

All right, well, Molly, Sadie, thank you so much for your time today. This has been fascinating, as always.

[Molly Ball]

It's just gonna keep being fascinating, fascinating and fascinating.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Er, before we go, do you have any questions about this new administration? What do you think of what Trump has done so far? Email us and let us know. Please send a voice Note to thejournalsj.com or that's thejournalsj.com Trump 2.0 is part of the Journal, which is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. This episode was produced by Enrique Perez De la Rosa and edited by Katherine Whelan. I'm Ryan Knudsen. Molly Ball is the Wall Street Journal's senior political correspondent. This episode was engineered by Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by so Wylie and remixed by Peter Leonard. Additional music in this episode by Katherine Anderson, Peter Leonard and Emma Munger. Fact checking by Kate Gallagher. Artwork by James Walton. Thanks for listening. Trump 2.0 will be back with a new episode next Friday morning. See you then.