B (3:27)

The president is really seeking a lot here, Jared. In addition to no nuclear weapons, no missile program, we have annihilating the Iranian navy, the president ordering Iranian troops and police to lay down their weapons or face certain death. What's your reaction to all this?

A (3:45)

They are very far reaching aims. He also vowed to raise the Iranian missile program to the ground and strike Iranian nuclear sites. And he also called on Iranians to rise up and overthrow the regime, which is the end goal that he says he wants. That's also the aim articulated this morning by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. And it raises a lot of questions now about how the Americans and the Israelis intend to achieve that end state. They are saying that after this military campaign is over, they're going to call on Iranians to actually accomplish that. If they do go out and try to overthrow the regime, ordinary Iranians, that is, they'll be putting their lives at risk.

B (4:33)

I mean, do we have any early answers, signals we can see from these attacks about how well they line up with those goals?

A (4:40)

From our reporting, we know that the Americans are striking along with the Israelis who have targeted the senior leadership of the regime. We don't know exactly what the outcome of those strikes were. And then of course, we have the list of targets that Trump himself outlined in his video that he released early this morning. Beyond that, we don't really know. We can assume that the administration is looking at the Iranian regime understanding that they are more vulnerable than they've been in years as a result of the war with Israel last year, the economic crisis in Iran, and of course, the protests themselves inside Iran. That said, there are very few examples in history, really of any regime falling as a result of an air war. And so it raises questions about what the end game of this is it

B (5:34)

seems like a lot of work, safe to say, remains to be done here if the US really does intend to follow through on all those goals. The president sketched. And I want to play another clip of what President Trump said speaking this morning about this major combat operation. He really sought to emphasize patience, endurance is going to be needed here, including potentially comfort with the loss of American

C (5:57)

lives the Iranian regime seeks to kill. The lives of courageous American heroes may be lost and we may have casualties that often happens in war. But we're doing this not for now. We're doing this for the future. And it is a noble mission.

B (6:16)

Alex, for those listeners, you know, kind of trying to hear parallels between what's playing out today and the operation earlier this year to remove Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro. Here's one area where it just seems like the messaging is already very different. Preparing people for the potential loss of American lives.

D (6:33)

Yeah, I mean, Venezuela and Iran are very, very different. Those are more sort of one and done or at least lower risk. Oper, there is nothing low risk about this. There'll be days of airstrikes that could put American pilots and of course, American troops in the Middle east in harm's way. Who knows if the US Will at some point have ground troops in the form of special operations forces. And that's even before we get to the fact that this could spiral into a broader regional war if not contained. So this is by far the biggest risk by President Trump in either of his terms. And it is likely going to be the defining moment of his presidency, whether it's ends with some sort of toppling of the regime, because that's what he's after, or what could be a mess that doesn't necessarily lead to the toppling of regime or even if it does, a vacuum that could cause chaos. So it's a massive gamble by the president here, and it's interesting to hear him talk about the casualties because he's trying to avoid certain pushback because, of course, the MAGA movement that he leads, he has promised for many years he would not execute a regime change war. And here we are, okay, trying to

B (7:37)

borrow some, some excess political capital, should it be necessary. But just operationally, what do we know about the extent to which the US can sustain a potentially prolonged military campaign like this?

D (7:48)

So the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dan Kaine, has advised Trump that it's unlikely that this could go on for weeks. As was sort of initially discussed, it could probably go on for days, maybe a week or two in terms of munitions, in terms of weapons, the US Has. So the President's going to want to have to achieve his goals in a relatively short amount of time compared to what they were initially signaling.

B (8:12)

Jared, over to Iran. What have we seen in terms of their response so far?

A (8:17)

Well, the Iranians promised a harsh response, and they are delivering to some degree on that response so far with missile strikes, they say, targeting US Bases across the Persian Gulf region and of course, also hitting Israel. You've had strikes on, on bases in the United Arab Emirates, in Qatar and in Saudi Arabia, so across the Gulf region. And for those Gulf countries who, by the way, diplomatically, for weeks now have been pushing behind the scenes very hard to try to deescalate, to try to find a diplomatic off ramp from this crisis because they were worried about precisely this scenario, there's obviously still questions about how long the Iranians themselves can sustain their own response. Their supply of missiles is depleted after the 1212 day war with Israel last summer, and their military sites, we presume, are also under attack right now. Nonetheless, it is already a very disruptive event for the region and for the global economy because obviously the Persian Gulf and the Straits of Hormuz being perhaps the world's most important energy shipping lane, that's now in the line of fire.

B (9:29)

That would be kind of their trump card, right? Closing down the Straits, probably activating their network of proxy groups around the Middle east, too, neither of which we've seen yet. But those are cards they conceivably retain.

A (9:40)

Those are cards that they can still play, and we haven't seen that yet, obviously. But even with this initial response, we've already seen that they can inflict damage and they can cause casualties across the region.

B (9:53)

We've got to take a very short break, but when we come back, we'll look at the political debate breaking out in Washington in response to these US Attacks, as well as how America's partners around the Middle east are getting pulled into this conflict and what it could take to trigger regime change in Iran. Stay with us. If data management is slowing down your business, you need the Intuit erp. If one entity is here and one here and one here and one here, you need the Intuit erp. If scaling your business feels like starting, starting, starting, starting over, you need the Intuit erp. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that consolidates, migrates and automates all in one place. Learn more@intuit.com ERP. Alex, you're there in Washington. I know you Were on the phone very early this morning with one senator, an ally of the president. What's the buzz on Capitol Hill? How are these attacks going over with Democrats and Republicans and kind of to the point we were discussing before the break how much willingness is there in Washington for the US to get into a sustained military operation here?

D (11:09)

Yeah, I broke my record for an early senator interview by several hours, about 4 in the morning. Look, there's kind of three ish factions here. I mean, to oversimplify, two of which are in the Republican Party. So Democrats, you can imagine, are very upset. Right. There was no congressional authorization. They feel that this is a misguided war, that the Trump administration exaggerated the intelligence that they, they had about what Iran was planning and its current capabilities. They've been pushing for a war powers vote next week, which could take place. But say it even passes, you know, what does it matter at this point? The war has begun. Then within the Republican Party, you've got the establishment types like Senator Graham, who's ecstatic that this has happened. He's been pushing for this.

B (11:52)

He was your early morning interview, was he not?

D (11:54)

That's right. He was my early morning interview. He was. He said it was a dream of his, kind of for this to happen. And there are others, like Senator Tom Cotton, who leads the Intelligence Committee, you know, Senator Cruz. There are many of Republicans out there who are ecstatic that this is happening. And then you've got the MAGA wing and those are some lawmakers like Thomas Massie from Kentucky, the House member who often tussles with Trump. But then you also have, you know, MAGA figures outside of government, like, say, Tucker Carlson, who told ABC News that he considered this a disgusting quote, unquote attack. So does MAGA split with Trump to a certain extent over this? I mean, MAGA has proved to be pretty sticky in staying with Trump no matter what he does. But that's sort of the political bit. Everyone's watching now.

B (12:34)

Jared, how does that compare to the reaction to all this from the Gulf states? There's already really been quite a long list of countries who've been pulled into this.

A (12:43)

I think we need to be closely watching the reaction from the Gulf states especially, I cannot stress enough, this block of countries along with Egypt and Turkey. So a broad array of US Allies in the region all lobbied the Trump administration not to do this ahead of time. The context in the region is that this is happening in the middle of Ramadan, which is a holy month in Islam. It's a time when practicing Muslims are fasting from sun up to sundown. And it's a time of quiet religious reflection. And of course, it's a time of a massive religious pilgrimage in which more than a million pilgrims travel to Saudi Arabia to go to Mecca. And now you have a huge disruption where the airspace is closed. No one's able to trav. And that's obviously a huge problem for them. And then in addition to that, they're also under fire from these Iranian missiles that are happening. So it is a huge test of the US Partnership with those countries, who also, as a group, decided to disallow the US from using their bases to launch strikes on Iran. And that decision is also going to be tested in the coming days.

B (13:55)

I want to return to Iran. Jared, earlier you had sort of mentioned the role that the US Envisions for protesters there, sort of picking up and delivering the fatal blow of this operation, which would be a change in Iran's leadership. Let's hear a clip of President Trump on that point.

C (14:09)

When we are finished, take over your government, it will be yours to take. This will be probably your only chance. For generations, for many years, you have asked for America's help, but you never got it. No president was willing to do what I am willing to do tonight. Now you have a president who is giving you what you want. So let's see how you respond.

B (14:34)

Have we seen people hitting the streets in Iran, Jared, and what should we be watching for there in the days, weeks to come?

A (14:41)

I think it's too soon to say that we're seeing any kind of significant protests. We haven't seen that yet. But it would be one thing to watch for once the military operation is over. My guess is that a lot of Iranians are concerned right now about their own safety.

B (15:01)

And Alex, crucially, there hasn't been a leadership vacuum yet. I mean, there may have been attacks trying to target members of the Iranian leadership, but from what we've been able to determine, no one's been killed. There isn't any openings to be filled,

D (15:13)

not that I've seen confirmed yet by the US Or Israel. That could change in the coming minutes, hours, days. So if that were to change, you know, say the supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei is killed, I mean, is there a clear successor? I haven't heard of one. But even if someone somehow takes up the mantle, say it's a member of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, right, they could be more hardline. They'll probably have to use violence to keep the people in line who'd be protesting against them. Taking over. I mean, this seems somewhat callous to say, but like, we're currently in the easy part of this, right? America and Israel air striking all over Iran is actually not that hard. It's dangerous and it is difficult, but it's much easier compared to not only just killing the leader, but then somehow forming a legitimate government that the people support. And even if Trump's idea is you, the Iranians go out and do it, there's going to be a lot of pressure on the US to come and help them if they find themselves in trouble.

B (16:09)

Jared, how realistic is all of this? I see Iran's foreign minister has now come out and called the prospect of regime change mission impossible.

A (16:17)

Yeah, I would just say that what's fascinating about that question is that senior members of the administration themselves have also pointed to this question. Marco Rubio himself, in his testimony to the Senate in January, said that because the regime is structured in a way that's so complex, with multiple centers of power, he said, and I'm quoting, I don't think anyone can give you a simple answer as to what happens next in Iran if the supreme leader and the regime were to fall. And now we're in a moment where Trump has called for regime change. He and his administration have not outlined a plan for what comes after. We do know that the regime probably can survive a few days of bombing it did last summer. And what comes next is extremely uncertain.

B (17:06)

I've been speaking to Wall Street Journal Middle east correspondent Jared Malson in Istanbul and national security reporter Alex Ward in Washington. Jared. Alex, thank you both so much.

A (17:15)

Thank you.

D (17:16)

Yeah, thanks for having me.

B (17:19)

And that's it for this special episode of what's New Sunday. Today's show was produced by Pierre Bienime, with supervising producer Sandra Kilhoff and deputy editor Chris Sinsley. I'm Luke Vargas for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back on your feet again on Monday morning. Until then, thanks for listening.

A (17:39)

That's all for today. Saturday, February 28th. The Journal will be back in your feed tomorrow with a new episode of our Camp Swamp Road Special series and back to our normal daily schedule on Monday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you then.

B (17:53)

The Future of Everything is The Wall Street Journal's flagship live event, returning to New York City May 4th through 5th. Be there as CEOs, policymakers and innovators sit down with our journalists to answer the most pressing questions of the day. From finance, tech and economic policy to sports streaming and style. We're bringing together today's most compelling newsmakers for two days of conversations on what's Head Listeners of this podcast can access exclusive discounted rates by visiting WSJ.com future. That's WSJ.com future.