Why Hollywood Is Betting Big on ‘Wicked’

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal – "Why Hollywood Is Betting Big on ‘Wicked’"

Episode Overview Released on November 25, 2024, this episode of The Journal, a collaboration between The Wall Street Journal and Gimlet, delves into Hollywood's massive investment in the new Wicked movie adaptation. Hosted by Ryan Knutson and featuring insights from Eric Schwartzel, the episode explores the strategic marketing efforts, fanbase dynamics, casting decisions, and the broader implications for Hollywood's current landscape.

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1. The Unprecedented Marketing Push for Wicked

Timestamp: [00:08] – [02:09]

Eric Schwartzel begins by highlighting the ubiquitous presence of Wicked promotions this year. From celebrity appearances at major events to partnerships with everyday brands, Wicked has transcended its identity as a movie to become a cultural phenomenon.

• Ryan Knutson: "This year, it's been almost impossible to go anywhere without seeing some kind of promotion for the movie Wicked." ([00:08])

• Eric Schwartzel: "The marketing push is one of the biggest Hollywood has ever seen." ([00:26])

Key Points:

• Wicked promotions began with movie stars at the Super Bowl nine months prior.
• The campaign extended to the Summer Olympics, the Today show, and retail giants like Target and Starbucks.
• Products themed around Wicked now range from clothing and nail polish to dolls and even holiday displays at Bloomingdale's.

Notable Quote:

"Everything that you can imagine that could be wikified is being wikified." – Eric Schwartzel ([01:33])

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2. The Legacy and Evolution of Wicked

Timestamp: [03:40] – [07:45]

Schwartzel shares his personal connection to Wicked, recalling his early fandom and the show’s origins. Originally a novel by Gregory Maguire in 1995, Wicked reimagines the story of the Wicked Witch of the West from The Wizard of Oz, focusing on her friendship with Glinda.

• Eric Schwartzel: "The author, Gregory Maguire, had this idea of retelling The Wizard of Oz, but in a way that takes place largely before the film and the book, but also recasts characters that we know well." ([05:19])

Key Points:

• Wicked transitioned from a novel to a Broadway musical in 2003, eventually becoming one of Broadway’s longest-running shows with over 65 million attendees and $5 billion in ticket sales.
• The musical faced skepticism initially due to its high budget and reliance on special effects but succeeded thanks to its compelling songs and storytelling.
• Wicked has cultivated a dedicated fanbase akin to superhero enthusiasts, deeply engaging with the show's lore and multiple interpretations of its characters.

Notable Quote:

"The songs are significantly better than your average Broadway show. They stick with you." – Eric Schwartzel ([06:47])

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3. Transitioning Wicked to the Big Screen

Timestamp: [07:45] – [13:26]

Despite its Broadway success, the transition to a film adaptation required careful consideration to avoid undermining the live show's popularity. Universal, which owns the adaptation rights, deliberated extensively over the timing and casting to ensure the film’s success without cannibalizing ticket sales.

• Eric Schwartzel: "They knew that doing it with the wrong cast or doing it in a ham-handed way could just hurt the property overall." ([09:19])

Key Points:

• Universal prioritized maintaining the loyalty of Wicked’s fanbase, leading to delays in the film’s production to perfect the script and casting.
• The casting of Ariana Grande as Glinda and Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba was met with widespread discussion and approval from fans.
• The production involved grandiose efforts, including planting nine million tulips to create a visually stunning backdrop.

Notable Quotes:

"If Wicked has such a loyal fan base though, why go so big on marketing? Because aren't its millions of fans likely to go see the movie anyway?" – Ryan Knutson ([15:05])

"We're in a moment right now where the moviegoer...now have to really fight for that dominance." – Eric Schwartzel ([13:31])

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4. The Flood the Zone Marketing Strategy

Timestamp: [13:26] – [17:59]

Universal implemented a "flood the zone" marketing strategy to ensure Wicked permeated every aspect of pop culture. This approach mirrored successful campaigns like last year's Barbie movie, utilizing extensive partnerships and media presence to maximize visibility.

• Ryan Knutson: "The movies compete with so much else out there for our Pop culture time. An all out campaign...is what you need to do to really capture the zeitgeist today." ([13:07])

Key Points:

• Marketing partnerships spanned various industries, including automotive (Lexus), retail (Build-A-Bear, Forever 21), beauty (Ulta), and more.
• These partnerships ensured that Wicked was featured in diverse settings, from TV shows like Today and SNL to major events like the Thanksgiving Day Parade.
• The strategy aimed to expand the movie's reach beyond existing fans, targeting broader audiences who might not typically engage with musicals.

Notable Quote:

"We're going to be just short of obnoxious." – Head of Marketing at Universal ([17:31])

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5. Achieving Box Office Success and Future Implications

Timestamp: [17:59] – [20:24]

The Wicked movie debuted with a record-breaking opening weekend, grossing $163 million globally—the highest for a film based on a Broadway musical. This success underscores the effectiveness of Universal's marketing strategy and raises questions about Hollywood's future tactics.

• Ryan Knutson: "What does all this say about Hollywood in 2024?" ([18:29])

Key Points:

• Wicked's success is a testament to the power of coordinated marketing and the enduring appeal of a beloved story.
• The episode speculates on whether this strategy will be sustainable, especially with the upcoming release of Wicked Part 2.
• There are inherent risks in such aggressive marketing, including potential audience fatigue and backlash if the campaign oversteps.

Notable Quotes:

"Whenever you see Wicked on the subway or you see Wicked at an NFL game...I think in the context of Hollywood, there's another angle where it looks like a last grasp." – Eric Schwartzel ([18:29])

"I think the biggest risk is just like, everyone's saying, enough already." – Eric Schwartzel ([17:17])

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6. Final Thoughts and Industry Impact

Timestamp: [20:07] – [20:24]

Ryan and Eric conclude by reflecting on the implications of Wicked's success for Hollywood, emphasizing the delicate balance between effective marketing and overexposure.

Key Points:

• If Wicked continues to perform well, it could set a precedent for future adaptations of stage musicals.
• A failure, however, might dampen enthusiasm for similar projects and highlight the pitfalls of oversaturation.

Closing Quote:

"Just short of obnoxious." – Ryan Knutson referring to the marketing strategy ([20:07])

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Conclusion This episode of The Journal provides an in-depth exploration of Hollywood's strategic investment in the Wicked movie adaptation. Through expert analysis and engaging discussions, Ryan Knutson and Eric Schwartzel illuminate the complexities of modern film marketing, the value of loyal fanbases, and the broader trends shaping the entertainment industry in 2024.

Transcript

[Ryan Knudsen]

This year, it's been almost impossible to go anywhere without seeing some kind of promotion for the movie Wicked.

[Eric Schwartzel]

I mean, you really could spend, like, every hour of the day consuming some kind of Wicked promotion. It really is turning what is by definition a movie into some kind of lifestyle statement.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's our colleague Eric Schwartzel, who covers Hollywood. He says the marketing push is one of the biggest Hollywood has ever seen.

[Eric Schwartzel]

It started officially with the movie's stars appearing at the super bowl, which was now nine months ago.

[Ariana Grande]

Ariana, we love you.

[Eric Schwartzel]

And there's just been this steady drumbeat of Wicked promotion since then. There was a ton of references to it at the Summer Olympics.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Celebrate their story tonight at the Olympic Games.

[Eric Schwartzel]

The Today show had Wicked interviews.

[Unknown]

We are ready to defy gravity here in Paris as we welcome two stars of the highly anticipated movie musical Wicked.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Cynthia. And they have a line of clothes at Target.

[Ariana Grande]

There's no place like Target to shop everything Wicked.

[Eric Schwartzel]

I mean, they're selling drinks at Starbucks. They're selling nail polish. They're selling dolls. They have Santa at Bloomingdale's wearing a green suit rather than a red one.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Geez, Santa's in on it, too.

[Eric Schwartzel]

I know, I know. I was, like, shocked. Everything that you can imagine that could be wikified is being wikified.

[Ryan Knudsen]

It feels almost like they're trying to manufacture virality.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Yeah. I just have this image of this ruthless corporate machine grinding into gear like, here comes Wicked, which is such a funny thing to think about. And it is the kind of flood the zone campaign that really is kind of willed into being by Hollywood today.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Ryan KNUDSEN. It's Monday, November 25th. Coming up on the show, how Wicked advertised its way to the top of the box office.

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[Ryan Knudsen]

The new Wicked movie is based on a musical that first came out more than 20 years ago. Our colleague Eric Schwartzel is a huge fan.

[Eric Schwartzel]

I think when I was probably about like 16 or 17, I went to this summer camp and there was a kid there who told me about this new Broadway show that he was obsessed with Wicked. So when I went home, I had recently gotten my driver's license and I drove my Hyundai Elantra to the Best Buy. Nice to buy the cast recording. I remember listening to it in my car nonstop.

[Ryan Knudsen]

How many times do you think I've listened to the soundtrack?

[Eric Schwartzel]

Well, see, this is. So this is, I'm gonna assume, zero. Because one thing that I have found reporting this story is that for as many of us like me, who know so much about this show and have seen it multiple times, there's this whole other part of the globe that has just like totally sat this one out.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That is me. I am the part of the globe that I knew that it existed and that's about it.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Which is a funny thing to imagine for someone like me who is almost like. Feels like I'm seeing something I know so well.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Do you have a favorite song?

[Eric Schwartzel]

Oh, it's probably Dancing Through Life, which is this big, like six and a half minute song about putting your cares aside and dancing through life.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Ryan, you're gonna have to sing Dancing Through Life. Cause I don't know what it sounds like.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I wasn't born yesterday. Never in a million years. No, I know how these work.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Wicked was first a novel that came out in 1995, and it takes the classic tale we all know, the wizard of Oz, and casts it in a different light.

[Eric Schwartzel]

The author, Gregory McGuire, had this idea of retelling the wizard of Oz, but in a way that takes place largely before the film and the book, but also recasts characters that we know well. So in this retelling, the Wicked Witch is not a villain. And it tells the story of the Wicked Witch as a young woman at school where she meets Glinda the good witch. And it's about their friendship.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Just to point out how wild this is, the new movie Wicked is based on a musical which is based on a book which is a retelling of the wizard of Oz, which itself was a movie based on a musical and a book that first came out in 1900. It's a story that people clearly seem to be drawn to. Wicked, the musical, opened on Broadway in 2003. And was it a hit from the start?

[Eric Schwartzel]

No, it wasn't. It was actually a very dicey proposition because it had a budget of $14 million, which in Hollywood is a quaint indie, but on Broadway, it's a massive investment. And then there were some critics who thought that it relied too heavily on the stagecraft. Like, there is a lot of. A lot of special effects. I mean, act one ends with Elphaba, the Wicked Witch, like, several feet above the stage because she's flying. She's defying gravity, so to speak.

[Unknown]

Defying gravity.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Kiss me goodbye, I'm defying gravity. She sings the song and at its climactic moment, she ends, like, high above the stage. And when I went to see Wicked in late September, I had dinner that night with a friend who produces Broadway shows. And I said to him, I said, I wonder if I went to an early reading of Wicked if I would have thought this show is going to be a blockbuster, because it doesn't seem on the surface like it should work as well as it does. And my friend said, well, you might have, just because the songs are so good. The songs are. In his view, the songs are significantly better than your average Broadway show. They stick with you. They kind of have a way of, like a good pop song kind of becoming this recurring refrain in your life.

[Ryan Knudsen]

And you sort of want to be like, I'm dancing through life. Like, how does that one go again?

[Eric Schwartzel]

I'm not doing it, Brian.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Soon enough, the show was a big Broadway hit, with Idina Menzel cast as the witch Elphaba and Kristin Chenoweth as Glenda. The musical has been on for 21 years, making wicked one of Broadway's longest running shows. It's been seen by more than 65 million people, and it's raked in more than $5 billion in ticket sales. And it's also developed an enormous army of people like yourself, who are massive Wicked fans. Tell me more about this fan base. And how many are there of you?

[Eric Schwartzel]

How many are. We're everywhere. We're like. And we find each other. You know, it's interesting. When I was working on this story, I found that the fans of Wicked really behave in a way that I think we've always associated with fans of superhero comics. And as the show has developed a kind of lore of its own. Fans have followed that lore. So there are dozens of women who have played these two lead roles, who fans will compare performances of and see what they're doing differently and how they're interpreting it differently. It's really become kind of a living document.

[Ryan Knudsen]

If Wicked had such a loyal fan base and the Broadway show was such a huge success, why did they wait so long to make a movie?

[Eric Schwartzel]

Well, on one hand, making a movie feels like an obvious choice because if it's a huge hit on Broadway and even if just a fraction of the people who see it on Broadway go to see it in theaters, you might have a hit. But there are a couple considerations they had to keep in mind. One is cannibalizing the show and worrying about rushing out a movie too quickly whenever you're still making so much money on ticket sales for the live show. And then the other is that they knew that doing it with the wrong cast or doing it in a ham handed way could just hurt the property overall.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Studio executives at Universal, which invested in the Broadway show and owned the rights to the movie, also worried about upsetting the musical's loyal fans.

[Eric Schwartzel]

When you have this, like, core group of really passionate fans, you need to make sure that they're kept happy, because if they sour on the film, it can kind of contaminate the whole pool of opinion.

[Ryan Knudsen]

So Universal took its time. It looked at different versions of scripts, fielded pitches from actresses who wanted to play the roles, and worked on getting the Broadway team to help with the movie.

[Eric Schwartzel]

I talked to the chief content officer at NBC Universal and she said to me, you know, she has been at the studio for more than 20 years, and that entire time she has thought about when is the right time to make a Wicked movie.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Finally, studio executives felt like they'd crack the code. But they didn't just want to make the movie. They also wanted to turn it into a massive cultural phenomenon. That's next.

[Unknown]

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You, I was just looking on ebay, where I go for all kinds of things I love.

[Eric Schwartzel]

And there it was, that hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.

[Ariana Grande]

Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield?

[Unknown]

Wipers.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Ebay has all the parts that fit my car.

[Unknown]

No more annoying, just beautiful. Whatever you love, find it on eBay. EBay. Things people love.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Getting the right actors to play the main two witches in Wicked was a top priority for universal. And in 2021, the studio finally landed on pop star Ariana Grande as Glenda and the Broadway phenom Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba. Fans talked about the casting choices all over social media.

[Ariana Grande]

Breaking news, they just announced that Ariana Grande is going to play Glinda and Cynthia Erivo is going to play Elphaba in the new Wicked movie. Let's talk about it. Ariana posted her reaction and goes, thank goodness her co star Cynthia, who's playing Elphaba, sent her flowers and goes pink, goes good with green. Honest. Not that surprised about Elphabel because first of all her vocals.

[Eric Schwartzel]

And then the production started and the production sounds like it was just this like absolute gargantuan undertaking. At one point, they planted 9 million tulips in a field.

[Ryan Knudsen]

9 million tulips.

[Eric Schwartzel]

I know it's not even like mentioned in the show, but I guess they wanted it to look as fulsome as possible.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Universal went big on the film's production and when they got ready to market it, they decided to go just as big. How much money are they spending on marketing this?

[Eric Schwartzel]

Yeah, I don't have a number, but like, I can definitely say, like, it's not news that a big budget movie is going to have a massive marketing campaign because these studios need to try and make a return on their investment. But even by those standards, the Wicked campaign is giant.

[Ryan Knudsen]

What's the logic behind such a massive marketing campaign?

[Eric Schwartzel]

We're in a moment right now where the moviegoer who might have seen four or five films a year before COVID is now more likely to see two or three. There is just a finite amount of time that we give to certain pieces of pop culture. And the movies have taken a significant hit on that front. Been replaced by whether it's Netflix or TikTok or what have you. And so movies, which, I mean for much of the 20th century enjoyed an easy cultural dominance, now have to really fight for that dominance. And when you have a movie with a budget like Wicked, an investment like Wicked, you need a lot of people to decide, I'm gonna get up off the couch, I'm gonna hire a babysitter, I'm gonna drive to the theater and I'm gonna go see this movie. And the movies compete with so much else out there for our Pop culture time. An all out campaign, or some would say assault is what you need to do to really capture the zeitgeist today.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Some of the strategy mirrors last year's Barbie rollout, which relied on huge marketing to become a $1.4 billion hit. And just as Barbie star Margot Robbie wore shades of pink across her promotional tour, Erivo and Grande have taken on the red carpet strategy of dressing in green and pink from the Wicked wardrobe. To broaden out this flood the zone approach, Universal executives went to their bosses at parent company Comcast and pitched Wicked as a company wide priority.

[Eric Schwartzel]

That's why across the Comcast empire. And this really, I think, speaks to the reach of the modern entertainment conglomerate. That's why you can see some kind of Wicked presence everywhere from the Today show to snl, obviously, both NBC shows, but also see it at the Thanksgiving Day parade at the end of this month. You can also see it in the ads. Like anything that Comcast touches is basically thinking, what can we do to help push Wicked?

[Ryan Knudsen]

The list of marketing partners feels like it's never ending. There are partnerships with Lexus, Build a Bear, Stanley, aldo Fossil, Forever 21, Crocs, Legos, the Movie also partnered with Ulta for Wicked makeup. I could go on and on and on and on for the rest of this podcast, but I won't. If Wicked has such a loyal fan base though, why go so big on marketing? Because aren't its millions of fans likely to go see the movie anyway?

[Eric Schwartzel]

It's a great question. I mean, I think you want to make sure that you try to make the tent as big as possible. And I think that's one challenge that this movie has, is that there are people, I'm told, who will just not ever see a musical. There are just like giant chunks of the, of the moviegoing population that they're going to have trouble getting. So they need to, they need to make the tent as big as possible. I also think it's about just sort of whipping those fans into a frenzy. And I think the Wicked fandom that has been sort of serviced now over the past year by this massive campaign is just helping to amplify all of that excitement and energy. And then I think it also like to your question about the bottom line, it also helps make sure that maybe they organize a big outing with 10 friends to go see it on opening night. Maybe they take it to that next level where they're buying more tickets, they're seeing it two or three or four times.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Are there any risks with this flooding the Zone Strategy?

[Eric Schwartzel]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think the biggest risk is just like, everyone's saying, enough already. And the head of marketing at Universal gave this presentation that I was at where he said, we're going to be just short of obnoxious.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's like a tricky line. It's a very subjective line.

[Eric Schwartzel]

I mean, yeah, it's like, it really is a fine art. And I think the oversaturation risks, you know, alienating people, but I also think you run the risk of overhyping, and then they're causing a backlash. Right. It's this really kind of like, emotional exchange between the marketing department and the public.

[Ryan Knudsen]

After a big opening weekend, it's clear that the strategy worked. The film grossed $163 million globally, making it the highest grossing opening weekend for a film based on a Broadway musical. And that's just for Wicked Part 1. Eric says he'll be keeping an eye on whether Universal strategy carries through to next November when Wicked Part 2 comes out. I mean, what does all this say about Hollywood in 2024?

[Eric Schwartzel]

I think what it says about Hollywood is whenever you see Wicked on the subway or you see Wicked at an NFL game, or you see Wicked on the shelves at Target, like, part of it looks really impressive, right? Like, this is really a sign of what a company can do whenever it sort of focuses its energy. And I don't think it's actually. It's not lost on me that we're talking about a movie that is a retelling of the wizard of Oz, which more than maybe any movie ever embodies the Hollywood golden age of Hollywood having this kind of cultural dominance, this saturation, this kind of global appeal. And I think in the context of Hollywood, there's another angle where it looks like a last grasp, and it looks like it is exhausting itself to try and have a monopoly on our attention.

[Ryan Knudsen]

And what will it mean if it fails and it doesn't actually translate into the kind of box office numbers that they're hoping for?

[Eric Schwartzel]

I think if it fails, it is not good news for those of us who want to go see musicals.

[Ryan Knudsen]

I think, you know, maybe if you sing, maybe more people will go see the film.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Remember that line about just short of obnoxious? I think that's the line is podcast guests singing, the Wicked cast recording, but.

[Ryan Knudsen]

Just short of obnoxious. So then we'll be good.

[Eric Schwartzel]

Just short. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ryan Knudsen]

That's all for today. Monday, November 25th. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.