Why Sam Altman Wants to Scan Your Eyeball

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journal – "Why Sam Altman Wants to Scan Your Eyeball"

Release Date: May 9, 2025
Hosted by Ryan Knutson and Jessica Mendoza
Co-produced by The Wall Street Journal and Gimlet
Available on Spotify

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Introduction

In the May 9, 2025 episode of The Journal, hosts Ryan Knutson and Jessica Mendoza delve into Sam Altman's ambitious project aimed at distinguishing humans from artificial intelligence (AI) online. The discussion unpacks the technological, social, and ethical implications of a novel biometric system that involves scanning individuals' irises to create unique World IDs. This initiative is part of Altman's broader vision to maintain human authenticity in an increasingly AI-driven digital landscape.

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The World Project and Sam Altman's Vision

Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI and the mind behind the World project, recognizes the escalating challenge of AI indistinguishability. As AI technologies like ChatGPT become more sophisticated, the lines between human and machine-generated content blur, posing risks in various sectors including social media, online dating, e-commerce, education, and gaming.

At [04:02], Altman articulates the core issue:

Sam Altman [01:42]: "We needed a way that we could know what content was made by a human, by an AI. The initial ideas were very crazy. They then we came down to one that was just a little bit crazy, which became World."

Altman's objective is to ensure that human contributions remain identifiable and verifiable within digital ecosystems, safeguarding against the pervasive influence of deceptive AI entities.

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Technology Behind the Orb

Central to the World project are the orbs—metallic spherical devices approximately the size of volleyballs equipped with ultra-high-definition cameras designed to scan and capture detailed images of users' irises. This biometric data is then transformed into an immutable, unique identifier known as a World ID.

Annie Minoff explains the process at [05:24]:

Annie Minoff [01:24]: "World says it then deletes the pictures of your eye. The only thing it says it retains is that individualized code."

The World ID serves as a global digital proof of humanness, intended to be seamlessly integrated across various online platforms. Unlike traditional identification methods such as passports or Social Security numbers, which are geographically and institutionally bound, the World ID aims for universal applicability, making it accessible to individuals regardless of their nationality.

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Incentives: Worldcoin Cryptocurrency

To encourage participation in the iris-scanning process, the World project introduces its own cryptocurrency, Worldcoin (WLD). Participants who agree to have their irises scanned are rewarded with free Worldcoin tokens, the value of which fluctuates based on market trading.

At [07:35], Angus Barrick details the incentive structure:

Angus Barrick [07:35]: "Worldcoin's value fluctuates based on trading."

During the project's global rollout, early participants in countries like Kenya received substantial amounts of WLD tokens (approximately $100 at launch) as an incentive to engage with the technology.

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Global Launch and Reactions

World officially launched in July 2023, initially targeting international markets before making its way to the United States. The deployment involved setting up orbs in shopping malls and galleries across countries including Kenya, Argentina, Germany, Spain, and Hong Kong. The reception varied significantly by region:

• Kenya: Experienced high engagement, with over 350,000 individuals participating in the first week. A notable event in Nairobi saw thousands queuing at a Worldcoin site, eager to receive cryptocurrency in exchange for iris scans ([09:15]).

• Argentina and Spain: Faced governmental pushback over privacy concerns and ethical issues, such as allegations of scanning minors' eyes ([09:59]-[10:37]).

• Hong Kong: Implemented a ban after discovering that World retained iris images for up to a decade, contravening its original privacy assurances ([09:59]).

These mixed reactions underscore the complex interplay between technological innovation, regulatory landscapes, and public trust.

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Privacy and Security Concerns

A significant point of contention revolves around the collection and storage of sensitive biometric data. Critics raise alarms about potential data breaches, misuse, and the irreversible nature of biometric identifiers like iris patterns.

At [10:37], Angus Barrick outlines the primary concerns:

Angus Barrick [10:37]: "The main concerns has been that, you know, effectively you could potentially have a private company collecting very kind of sensitive biometric data of people all around the world."

Unlike traditional data that can be altered or secured behind passwords, biometric data such as iris scans are immutable. A compromised database would expose individuals to lifelong vulnerabilities, as altering one's biometric features is not feasible.

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Response from the World Team

Addressing the backlash, Alex Blania, co-founder of the World project, emphasizes the platform's commitment to privacy and transparency. He asserts that the technology is designed to be fully privacy-preserving and anonymous, with most systems open-sourced to build trust and allow for community scrutiny.

At [11:28], Blania responds to regulatory concerns:

Alex Blania [11:28]: "If you are a data protection authority and you have a sci fi looking project launching in your country and saying, hey, we have these orbs that verify humanity. I think it's very fair for data protection authority to ask questions."

He further explains that World does not centrally store biometric data, mitigating risks associated with large-scale data breaches. Instead, the system converts iris scans into unique codes without retaining the original images, ensuring that sensitive information remains secure.

Blania also stresses that World operates as a protocol rather than a centralized entity, akin to email protocols, fostering a collaborative approach with multiple stakeholders, including governments and large corporations.

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US Launch and Future Plans

Following international deployments, World has recently initiated its rollout in the United States, strategically choosing cities like Atlanta, Austin, Los Angeles, Miami, Nashville, and San Francisco. This expansion coincides with political shifts, notably the return of Donald Trump and his administration's favorable stance towards cryptocurrency, reducing potential regulatory hurdles.

At [14:45], Angus Barrick provides insight into the US launch:

Angus Barrick [14:45]: "They plan to deploy several thousand orbs all around the country. But I think ultimately, it will depend on the public's appetite to participate in this project."

The aggressive US expansion aims to establish World as a foundational element of online human verification, contingent on public acceptance and trust in the technology.

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Public Perception and Concerns

Public reactions to the orb and the World project are mixed, reflecting a balance between technological enthusiasm and apprehension about privacy.

Participants expressing their experiences highlight both perceived benefits and underlying fears:

• Participant 1 [00:14]: "I heard about this store on news and social media. It sounded a bit mysterious and I want to find out exactly what's going on."

• Participant 2 [00:49]: "You know, when you're not ready for the future, but it's now. It's that feeling."

After scanning their eyes, participants generally found the process seamless:

• Participant 3 [01:12]: "Pretty seamless, actually."

• Participant 2 [01:18]: "It was quick. A minute, two minutes and I was in."

However, deeper concerns about long-term implications persist:

• Participant 2 [16:12]: "If I hypothetically get in trouble, will they be able to find me everywhere in the world? That's my wish or my worry."

Such sentiments reflect a broader societal debate on the trade-offs between technological advancement and personal privacy.

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Conclusion

The The Journal episode "Why Sam Altman Wants to Scan Your Eyeball" provides an in-depth exploration of Sam Altman's World project—a pioneering effort to authenticate human identities in the digital age through biometric iris scanning. While the technology promises enhanced security and a robust solution to AI-induced challenges, it simultaneously ignites critical discussions on privacy, data security, and ethical governance. As World expands its footprint, particularly in the United States, the balance between innovation and safeguarding individual rights remains at the forefront of public discourse.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sam Altman [01:42]: "We needed a way that we could know what content was made by a human, by an AI."

• Alex Blania [12:29]: "But the thing is like, we really designed a system from the ground up, so everything we do is open source, or most of it is open source."

• Angus Barrick [04:30]: "I think the sophistication of deepfakes now has reached a point that they can bypass a bank or kind of financial firms like customer checks."

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, providing a clear understanding of Sam Altman's World project, its technological underpinnings, global reception, and the multifaceted debates it sparks regarding human identity verification in an AI-dominated future.

Transcript

[Annie Minoff]

Last week, a new storefront opened in San Francisco. Our producer, Sophie Kodner was there.

[Sophie Kodner]

And what brought you into the store today?

[Unnamed Participant 1]

I heard about this store on news and social media. It sounded a bit mysterious and I want to find out exactly what's going on. I'm not sure if I still do know exactly what's going on, but it's an interesting concept. From what I could gather, nothing sold.

[Annie Minoff]

At this store and what's actually going on inside. Sounds pretty sci fi. People are getting their eyes, specifically their irises scanned by a device called the orb.

[Sophie Kodner]

What are your impressions of the orb?

[Unnamed Participant 2]

You know, when you're not ready for the future, but it's now. It's that feeling. It's that feeling.

[Annie Minoff]

The orbs are metallic spheres about the size of volleyballs. Inside each one, there's a camera taking high definition pictures of people's eyes. The goal is to create individualized online IDs for each person based on the unique patterns in their eyes.

[Sophie Kodner]

Did you get your eye scanned?

[Unnamed Participant 3]

I did, yes.

[Unnamed Participant 1]

Yes, I did.

[Sophie Kodner]

Okay. How'd it go?

[Unnamed Participant 1]

Pretty seamless, actually.

[Unnamed Participant 2]

It was quick. A minute, two minutes and I was in.

[Annie Minoff]

All this. Eye scanning is part of a project called World. It's the brainchild of Sam Altman, the tech visionary and CEO of OpenAI. In Altman's view, what's happening in this San Francisco storefront could be part of the solution to a pressing how to tell humans and AI apart.

[Sam Altman]

We needed a way that we could know what content was made by a human, by an AI. The initial ideas were very crazy. They then we came down to one that was just a little bit crazy, which became World.

[Annie Minoff]

Welcome to the Journal, our show about money, business and power. I'm Annie Minoff. It's Friday, May 9th. Coming up on the show, Sam Altman's global project to tell man from machine. Have you seen one of these orbs or touched one?

[Angus Barrick]

Yeah, unfortunately I have not seen one physically and I have not yet scanned my iris. So currently there is no way to be assured that I am the real Angus Barrick.

[Annie Minoff]

My colleague, Angus Baric has been following Sam Altman's eye scanning project. As the CEO of OpenAI, Altman's had a front row seat to AI advances, including helping to create chatbots like ChatGPT. That sound a whole lot like humans. And that's where Altman saw a potential problem.

[Angus Barrick]

I think he saw that we were going to reach a point in the future where AI technology would be so advanced that we wouldn't really be able to distinguish it from humans and particularly in an online setting. So that could apply to bots on social media or deep fake people on video calls.

[Annie Minoff]

How far away did he think that future was? Because it almost feels like it's here.

[Angus Barrick]

I think what's most surprised me is how quickly this kind of Terminator esque world is sort of arriving. Well, you know, we don't have the Terminator walking around fortunately. But yeah, the Internet is a kind of drastically different place to how it was a couple of years ago. And I think this issue of kind of distinguishing man from machine is, yeah, just becoming kind of very pressing across so many different parts of our society and economy.

[Annie Minoff]

This man or machine problem has come up in all sorts of areas on social media, in online dating, e commerce, education and gaming.

[Angus Barrick]

I think the point was made recently that for gamers it used to be really easy to spot a bot because they would probably be jerky and probably just weren't playing as well as a human. But now their abilities have kind of far outstripped even the nerdiest of human players.

[Annie Minoff]

AI fakes are also becoming a problem in banking.

[Angus Barrick]

I think the sophistication of deepfakes now has reached a point that they can bypass a bank or kind of financial firms like customer checks, which typically rely on comparing your passport photo with like a scan of your face.

[Annie Minoff]

Altman says he wanted to help solve this problem and to do it he co founded World.

[Sam Altman]

We wanted a way to make sure that humans stayed special and central in a world where the Internet was going to have lots of AI driven content. We wanted a way to think of.

[Angus Barrick]

Obviously the irony was that he was probably the foremost figure driving us toward this future as well. You know, I think people have said that he has the virus on one hand and the antidote on the other.

[Annie Minoff]

So how does World plan to identify real humans on the Internet? That is where the orbs come in. How does that process work? How does the scan happen?

[Angus Barrick]

So there's an ultra high definition camera kind of loaded inside one of this orb. Shiny objects about the size of a kind of basketball. Then you would stare into the orb's camera, it would capture this image of your iris. And then what the orb then does is that it converts that image into an immutable code. And that code is then kind of unique to you as an individual.

[Annie Minoff]

World says it then deletes the pictures of your eye. The only thing it says it retains is that individualized code. That iris code can then link to something called a world id, basically your online proof of Humanness. I mean, isn't this just a fancy Social Security number? Like, why is it better than a passport or a password?

[Angus Barrick]

So I think what they say is that the problem with, you know, for instance, like a passport or your kind of Social Security number is that that's kind of bound to the kind of confines of your nation. And I think that, you know, they want a global solution that can be recreated anywhere around the world.

[Annie Minoff]

Not everybody in the world has a passport. Passports can be forged and they're not standardized around the world. The World id, on the other hand, could work for anyone, anywhere, or at least that's the idea. And in Altman's kind of vision of the future, how are people using this code? Like, what's the scenario where I'm being asked to flash my World id?

[Angus Barrick]

So you would be tagged, for instance, on Reddit or on a dating site, or on a shopping site or a social media site, and you would then be tagged as a verified, verified human. A verified human, exactly. And if I'm speaking with you and your World id, I can be confident that you're not a bot who is out to trick me.

[Annie Minoff]

But World had a how to get people to stand in front of an orb and get their eyeballs scanned.

[Angus Barrick]

For a lot of people, staring into this orb and allowing it to scan my eye isn't the most enticing prospect.

[Annie Minoff]

But World had a solution for that too. It would give people a little extra incentive to get scanned. The project developed its own cryptocurrency called worldcoin.

[Angus Barrick]

They have their own token called wld.

[Annie Minoff]

If you agree to get your eye scanned, you become eligible to claim some free worldcoin. Worldcoin's value fluctuates based on trading.

[Angus Barrick]

When the project was launching, you know, one WLD token was worth around $10, and I think so that people were receiving, potentially up to about $100 just to participate in this.

[Annie Minoff]

Worlds had a vision, a technology and a hook to get people to sign up. Now it just had to start scanning people's eyes. That's next.

[Unnamed Participant 4]

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[Annie Minoff]

Uh oh.

[Unnamed Participant 4]

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[Annie Minoff]

World officially launched in July of 2023. But they didn't start in the US instead they went just about everywhere else. Kenya, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Hong Kong. Operators scanned people's eyes in shopping malls and galleries, offering worldcoin to those who participated. And they found plenty of takers.

[Angus Barrick]

Over the last week, more than 350,000.

[Sophie Kodner]

Kenyans have already gotten their eyes scanned.

[Angus Barrick]

Here by the device. In Nairobi. I think there was an infamous case in which thousands of people swarmed this worldcoin site at this convention center in Nairobi. These huge queues of people spilling out onto the roads. And I think there was a huge degree of intrigue. There was also quite a lot of excitement about it, in part because people were able to receive these payouts of the cryptocurrency which they could then swap for actual cash.

[Annie Minoff]

Governments in some of those countries though, were less than thrilled.

[Angus Barrick]

They were kind of caught off guard and were learning that there were troops of orb operators heading through their communities with the orbs in tow.

[Annie Minoff]

World says that orbs currently delete photos of participants eyes. But in some countries, World has allowed people to later opt in and share their iPhotos with the project to help train its algorithms. That has raised some issues. Hong Kong, for example, banned World after finding it was retaining IRIS images for up to a decade. Authorities in Argentina accused World of having abusive user terms and launched investigations into it. And in Spain, officials accused the project of scanning children's eyes. Let's talk about some of the main concerns. What issues have critics raised with this project?

[Angus Barrick]

The main concerns has been that, you know, effectively you could potentially have a private company collecting very kind of sensitive biometric data of people all around the world. And if a database like that could ever be compromised, that would expose a lot of very sensitive biometric data. And I think the problem with biometric data, unlike you know, for instance, like a passport, is, you know, once an image of my iris. Once that that's been kind of released publicly, I can't like yet another one, you can't change your iris. So you're kind of now perpetually vulnerable to identity theft.

[Annie Minoff]

Alex Blania is a co founder of the World Project. I asked him about some of the pushback that it's received. What's your response to governments who have been uncomfortable with how you've rolled this out in the past?

[Alex Blania]

I think it's not all that surprising and something we expected from the beginning. If you are a data protection authority and you have a sci fi looking project launching in your country and saying, hey, we have these orbs that verify humanity. I think it's very fair for data protection authority to ask questions. And so my response is like, look, I think this is very important and I think it has all the properties that we all want for such a technology, which is fully privacy preserving and anonymous. And so we will work with regulators around the world to explain them what this is. And for some of them that will take time and that's totally okay.

[Annie Minoff]

What do you say to someone who might be in an orb store right now trying to make this decision? Do I hand over to you, Alex Blania and your company this very sensitive biometric data? What would you say to them?

[Alex Blania]

So the first thing I would say is you actually don't hand anything over. It's a pretty complicated technology. And so first of all, the reaction is not surprising. I would say it's very understandable. It feels like a very.

[Annie Minoff]

It feels sci fi and it's your.

[Alex Blania]

Eye, it feels very sci fi. But the thing is like, we really designed a system from the ground up, so everything we do is open source, or most of it is open source. And it's designed in such a way that actually there is no central storage of that data. It is very, very far extreme on the privacy direction, actually much more than basically anything else you could use. And that of course is counterintuitive because you feel like, okay, biometrics are involved, so it's a little hard to wrap your head around it. But I think once this is getting more and more adoption, I think more and more people will understand that this is actually technology you can trust. And so I think we will get over this initial hump of, oh, this is so weird, or so sci fi.

[Annie Minoff]

Should governments be doing this? I mean, you're doing this as a company, but verifying people's identities, ID documents, that's traditionally been the purview of government.

[Alex Blania]

So actually I think these are separate problems. I think governments should still do identity verifications like the Social Security number, all of those things. So what we do is, I think strictly additive because verifying humanness on the Internet is a global scale topic. And much more importantly, while we are a company, everything we do is designed to actually be a protocol. And so everything we do is open source it and many different parties will come together to make this work. So it's much more like the email protocol or something where we just set up the standard and we set up the technology. But it will only work if many, many, probably big companies and potentially even governments. So we already work with some governments will come together to make this technology work.

[Annie Minoff]

So you really do see this as kind of a global infrastructure project?

[Alex Blania]

Very much so, yeah.

[Annie Minoff]

How do you imagine World is going to make money?

[Alex Blania]

So there will be fees attached to it at some point. So if you have like assume you have a large notion network that will rely on that as their proof of human, they will have to pay some amount of fee for each of this human verification. And so the platform itself I think will turn out to be very valuable. So that's not our concern at this point.

[Annie Minoff]

So Angus, World has just launched in the US finally. Why now?

[Angus Barrick]

What's changed in the United States is the return of Donald Trump and his full throated kind of embrace of crypto. So I think they now feel that they're not exposed to the legal dangers that they could have faced under the Biden administration and they can now start scanning viruses and issuing WLD cryptocurrency, confident that they won't be obstructed. I think that they plan to expand in the US very aggressively and you know, they plan to deploy several thousand orbs all around the country. But I think ultimately, I guess it will depend on the public's appetite to participate in this project.

[Annie Minoff]

World is initially launching in Atlanta, Austin, Los Angeles, Miami, Nashville, and of course in San Francisco, where the orbs have already been booted up. The QR code is invalid and that means that more people will soon be pondering a choice to scan or not to scan.

[Sophie Kodner]

Did you have any reservations? Were you debating it at all?

[Unnamed Participant 3]

Yeah, I think there's always some reservations around biometric data because it's something that's particularly personal to you and there's nothing that you can do really to change it. But I'm not someone that like shies away from kind of data sharing. I think we're kind of. Your data's already out there for the most part.

[Sophie Kodner]

Any reservations or fears?

[Unnamed Participant 2]

If I hypothetically get in trouble, will they be able to find me everywhere in the world? That's my wish or my worry. But I think other than that it's better to be ahead.

[Annie Minoff]

That's all for today. Friday, May 9th. The Journal is a co production of Spotify and the Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode from Sophie Kodner. The show's made by Katherine Brewer, Pia Gadkari, Carlos Garcia, Rachel Humphries Sophie Kodner, Ryan Knudsen, Matt Kwong, Kate Linebaugh Colin McNulty, Laura Morris, Enrique Perez de la Rosa, Sarah Platt, Allen Rodriguez Espinosa, Heather Rogers, Piers Singhe, Jeevika Verma, Jessica Mendoza, Lisa Wang, Catherine Whalen, Tatiana Zamis and me, Annie Minoff, with help from Trina Menino. Our engineers are Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak and Peter Leonard. Our theme music is by so Wiley. Additional music this week from Katherine Anderson, Peter Leonard, Billy Libby, Bobby Lord, Emma Munger, Griffin Tanner, Nathan Singapak Audio Network and Blue Dot Sessions. Fact Checking by Mary Mathis. Thanks for listening. See you Monday.