A Casual Culinary Chat About Dinner Parties With Diane Morgan

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: "A Casual Culinary Chat About Dinner Parties With Diane Morgan"

Release Date: January 22, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast, hosts John Becker, Megan Scott, and Shannon Larson delve into the intricacies of hosting dinner parties with special guest Diane Morgan, a James Beard award-winning cookbook author. The conversation spans from personal kitchen anecdotes to professional culinary insights, offering listeners a rich tapestry of ideas for their own gatherings.

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1. Weekly Kitchen Chronicles

The episode kicks off with a light-hearted discussion among the hosts about recent culinary endeavors. Megan Scott shares her success with eggplant parmesan, a recipe newly introduced in the latest edition of Joy of Cooking. Shannon Larson enthusiastically praises the dish, highlighting its "eggplant forward" flavor and "really oniony" tomato sauce that balances the overall taste (03:18).

Notable Quote:

Shannon Larson: "I highly recommend it if you like eggplant parm." (03:50)

Jon Becker adds his humorous take on using razor blades in the kitchen for tasks like scoring skin on meats, emphasizing the satisfaction of a clean oven achieved with unconventional tools (01:50).

2. Cheese Tasting Extravaganza

Transitioning to a delightful segment, Megan and Jon introduce a selection of artisanal cheeses sourced from a local Portland shop, Cowbell. Megan details each cheese's unique characteristics:

• Hollerhocker: A raw cow's milk alpine cheese with a "dense, fudgy texture" and "savory, umami" flavors (15:05).
• Isle of Mull Cheddar: A Scottish cheddar with a "booziness" derived from cows fed fermented grains from a Scotch distillery (15:35).
• Rue Ardoise: A pasteurized goat bloomy cheese with an ashed rind and a uniform ripened texture (17:08).
• Shake Rag Blue: A Tennessee blue cheese wrapped in whiskey-soaked fig leaves, adding a "boozy" dimension (17:59).

The hosts revel in the textures and flavors, appreciating the craftsmanship behind each selection. Diane Morgan expresses her regret at not being able to join the cheese tasting, highlighting the communal joy such experiences bring (16:51).

Notable Quote:

Jon Becker: "The folks at Calvo were very helpful, as they always are, in helping us choose." (15:56)

3. Interview with Diane Morgan

a. Culinary Journey and Mentorship

Diane Morgan opens up about her transition from a mathematics graduate to a renowned cookbook author. Her culinary journey began at a boutique restaurant in Port Townsend, Washington, where she worked summers alongside a chef deeply influenced by James Beard. This early exposure ignited her passion for cooking, leading her to mentorship under Alma Locke, a Cordon Bleu-trained chef and contemporary of Julia Child.

Notable Quote:

Diane Morgan: "Alma was very trained from the Cordon Bleu. She and Julia Child were of the same era." (22:04)

b. Cooking Without a Full Kitchen

Having recently moved to Vancouver, Washington, Diane discusses the challenges and creative solutions of cooking without a traditional kitchen. Utilizing a portable induction burner, microwave, and toaster oven, she adapts classic recipes to fit her new space. Diane shares innovative methods like roasting sweet potatoes on a grill and making dough in a borrowed food processor, showcasing adaptability in the face of limited resources (07:16).

Notable Quote:

Diane Morgan: "It's just fun to just like, you know, whether you pin something or print off something from websites or dog ear cookbooks or whatever, but just to keep doing something new often." (32:12)

c. Influential Cookbooks and Techniques

Diane highlights pivotal cookbooks that shaped her culinary style, including Market to Kitchen by Perla Myers and The Fine Art of Chinese Cooking by Barbara Trop. She contrasts Alma Locke's meticulous French techniques with John Conway's more relaxed approach, illustrating the balance between precision and creativity in her work (26:21).

Notable Quote:

Diane Morgan: "The rhythm that I've always enjoyed is that we all have what I think are back pocket recipes." (32:12)

d. Favorite Dishes and Cooking Tips

Delving into her favorite ingredients, Diane expresses a particular fondness for beets and celery root. She shares versatile recipes such as celery root puree and parsnip cake, emphasizing the importance of seasonality and proper ingredient selection to enhance flavors (27:39).

Advice for New Cooks: Diane encourages less experienced cooks to maintain a repertoire of reliable "back pocket recipes" while gradually experimenting with new dishes. She advocates for making ahead-of-time meals to reduce stress during gatherings and suggests practical kitchen hacks, like using reusable mesh produce bags for efficient preparation (32:08).

4. Answering Listener Questions: Cooking for a Crowd

The hosts address listener Sarah Marshall's query about straightforward, crowd-pleasing main courses for hosting larger groups. They recommend versatile dishes that can be prepared ahead of time, such as:

• Chili: A customizable and comforting option that allows guests to add their own toppings (36:08).
• Beef Bourguignon and Mushroom Variants: Rich stews that can cater to both meat-eaters and vegetarians (36:41).
• Lasagna and Baked Pastas: Easy to bake in large quantities while accommodating various dietary preferences (37:40).
• Risotto: When prepared in flat pans, risotto can be an elegant main course for smaller gatherings (43:01).

Diane Morgan expands on these suggestions, emphasizing the adaptability of dishes like Hungarian goulash and taco bars, which offer flexibility and accommodate diverse tastes, including those of children (41:33).

Notable Quote:

Shannon Larson: "If I go over to your house and there's a cheese plate, I'm happy." (16:27)

5. New Year's Plans and Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, the hosts share their personal New Year's plans, focusing on comforting and communal meals. Shannon Larson mentions making chili for her New Year's Eve dinner, while Megan Scott plans to prepare Southern good luck foods like collard greens and cornbread. Diane Morgan expresses her contentment with a simple cheese and charcuterie board, highlighting the joy of sharing good food with loved ones despite kitchen limitations (46:10).

The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to leave reviews and follow the podcast on Instagram, ensuring the community continues to grow and share culinary inspirations.

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Connect with Diane Morgan: Listeners interested in Diane Morgan's culinary adventures and kitchen transformations can follow her on Instagram @DianeMorganCooks.

Join the Conversation: Share your own dinner party tips or ask questions by calling the podcast hotline at 503-395-8858 or texting the same number.

Tune In Next Week: The next episode will explore creative recipes that incorporate home-brewed beer, inspired by listener Beth's query about using homebrew in cooking (45:41).

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Thank you for joining this episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast. Be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on Instagram @hejoyofcooking for more delicious conversations.

Transcript

[Diane Morgan]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan and shrimp chip enthusiast.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night, and I am officially out of room for new cookbooks.

[Jon Becker]

I'm Jon Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. I think airlines have potentially ruined Biscoff cookies forever for me, and I am beginning to become a big fan of using razor blades in the kitchen.

[Megan Scott]

That's a mysterious no, but I completely.

[Shannon Larson]

Agree with you on the Biscoff thing.

[Megan Scott]

We were talking about this yesterday and I used to love them so much and now I'm like, oh, it just makes me think of sadness and delays.

[Shannon Larson]

And being cramped and. Yeah. Uncomfortable.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Or poor meal substitute.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Shannon Larson]

Give me a bag of pretzels. I'll be happier.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I miss peanuts, to be honest.

[Jon Becker]

The razor blade thing, they're useful for things like scoring skin to get it to nice and crispy and to get it to render and stuff. But yeah, we cleaned the oven the other day and of course the window of the oven.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, man, it was so on the door.

[Jon Becker]

So hard to scrub that stuff off. Gonna be afraid of like scratching it or whatever. I had a eureka moment and went to the garage and came back with one of those scrapers for painting and oh, boy, that was really, really satisfying.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, nice.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, it just came right off.

[Megan Scott]

Everything came right off.

[Jon Becker]

Like butter.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I wish you took like before and after photos.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, not during, during. It looks pretty nasty.

[Megan Scott]

Psa. Clean your oven more often than once a year. It's really, really bad. Yeah. Well, Shannon, so this week we had our first reports of someone listening to the podcast who we do not know.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Could you explain?

[Shannon Larson]

It was really exciting. It was my neighbor Ben. He messaged me and he's like, my dad listens to your podcast. He's in Arizona. But it was just. It was really. It was fun. He's like, it was weird. He was just talking and then he's like, this is my neighbor. So it was great. It was really exciting.

[Megan Scott]

So awesome.

[Shannon Larson]

Yay.

[Megan Scott]

We've Broken out of the inner friends and family circle, which is very exciting.

[Shannon Larson]

It was very cute.

[Jon Becker]

It's a scary new world.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's exciting. A little scary. Yeah, exactly. Have you made anything delicious this week, Shannon?

[Shannon Larson]

Yes. And I was like, I can't talk to you guys about it. Before the podcast recording, John made the eggplant parm from the most recent addition. It was in honor of my late grandmother. It was her favorite dish, and he followed the recipe exactly. I was very proud. It was so freaking good. It was the best eggplant parm we've ever made. And now we have a bunch of it. Like I after. I mean, it was only me and my husband, so we each had a piece and then I cut it up and put it on parchment paper in the freezer. And now we have, like a bag of eggplant parm for whenever we get the urge to eat Eggplant parm.

[Megan Scott]

Was it move? Yeah, yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

No, it was fantastic. I highly recommend it if you like eggplant parm.

[Megan Scott]

Good. Yay. What did you like about it?

[Shannon Larson]

I think that it was eggplant forward.

[Megan Scott]

It.

[Shannon Larson]

It didn't, like, get masked by a bunch of the other stuff.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, and the tomato sauce was really oniony, which was good. It, like, balanced well overall.

[Megan Scott]

Yum.

[Shannon Larson]

Why are you laughing about the eggplant?

[Jon Becker]

Oh, no reason. Eggplant, first time it's ever been mentioned on screen.

[Megan Scott]

We never talk about eggplant. I know.

[Jon Becker]

Now it's one of those recipes. I mean, you can scale it, but it's hard.

[Megan Scott]

Don't scale it.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, it's hard to justify.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. And now, I mean, now we have like lunch options and stuff. And I cut some pieces bigger so that we can just like share those pieces and then some pieces smaller if we want an individual piece.

[Megan Scott]

Smart.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I'm trying. What about you guys? What have you cooked the past week?

[Jon Becker]

You know, it's Chex mix season, so Megan definitely did what, two batches. Two different batches of Chex mix with different fun things in them.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Like Cheez Its and oh, yum. Pretzel. You know those twisty pretzels? Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

They were like pickle flavored.

[Megan Scott]

Pickle flavored? Really? Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I liked when I was watching your cats and I just sat on the couch and ate some of your checks mix out of the b.

[Megan Scott]

Did Lola try to steal?

[Shannon Larson]

No, she was being very good girl.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Jon Becker]

I did end up going to Umaya with my father, Ethan, who was in town briefly.

[Megan Scott]

And can you explain what Umaia is?

[Jon Becker]

Oh, Sorry. Umaya is way across town in Beaverton. It is a large Japanese, primarily Japanese supermarket. They have a really great produce section and picked up some like a kind of impulse bought a bunch of young ginger, made a batch of pickled ginger. I cut back on the sugar that we call for in our recipe and it ended up being really good. And I also made another type of pickled ginger called benishoga and ended up using some of the, this byproduct of the umaboshi. You explain what umeboshi is?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. So we're getting in the weeds, but so over the summer we made a. I can't remember if we've talked about this already on the show, but we made a big batch of umeboshi which are like preserved salted little ume plums. That's like a Japanese plum that they're super small. You pick them when they're still green and then you, you salt them, you basically brine them and they, the salt pulls out liquid from the plums which turns into this deep. Well, it turns to purple because you add purple shiso at a certain point in the process, but it pulls out this really beautiful purple brine that's really sour because the plums are super sour. And so he used, John used the brine from the plums to make the ginger. So it's kind of like how that type of pickled ginger is traditionally made.

[Jon Becker]

Saltier and punchier than the typical ginger you've probably.

[Megan Scott]

You get with sushi.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, you get with sushi.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

But yeah. And then that led to katsu curry because beni shoga is like one of those things you usually serve with.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I love, I love Japanese curry in the winter time. It's like the coziest comfort food ever.

[Shannon Larson]

It's so good. So good.

[Megan Scott]

All right, well, now I'm going to introduce our guest for the show today. We'd love to welcome Diane Morgan to the show. Diane is a James Beard award winning cookbook author, writer and teacher. She's written, I think something like 20 cookbooks. Diane, you can correct me, but, but welcome to the show. It's so nice to have you.

[Diane Morgan]

It's nice to be here and nice to hear you all talking about food, which might sound like a weird thing for me to say, but we moved in September 3rd from our house of 41 years and my dream kitchen to be closer to our daughter and grandkiddos and son in law over in Vancouver, Washington and we are renovating this house.

[Megan Scott]

I was going to ask you about that because I know you moved recently. And, like, how are you dealing with not. Do you have a kitchen? How are you dealing with maybe not having a kitchen?

[Diane Morgan]

So we have this really nice laundry room, and we're making it work. I have one portable induction burner. I have a microwave, a toaster oven, and my goodness, kneaded espresso maker. And we have a grill, and the grill's saving us. It's been interesting to figure this out. I kind of wish I had time to post more than I do, because I come up with some things. I'm like, oh, here's what to cook when you don't have a kitchen.

[Megan Scott]

Ooh. Can you tell us, though?

[Diane Morgan]

I can. I can. So we still go to the farmers market, Portland farmers market, every Saturday that it's open. And unless we're out of town. And I really don't like to miss the seasonal things. And right now there's kettes in the market. I figured out that for two people, I can roast in my toaster oven, a small sheet pan of kellettes, and do the exact same thing that I would do in my bigger oven. And I'm like, oh, okay, that works. You know, now we're putting, like, roasting sweet potatoes on the grill. And, well, we've always roasted baby new potatoes on the grill on the upper rack. But there's more things going out there, like broccolini that I might have done on a sheet pan is. Is going out on the grill. And so it's kind of just made me a little more flexible. And for cooking Christmas, I always make these Christmas pecans. Couldn't do it this year. Cause I don't have an oven. And I could have done it at my daughter's, but it just got complicated. But I did want to make rugula, which we all love. And so I borrowed my daughter's food processor, brought it over here, cleared the counter, made three batches of dough, and then refrigerated it. And then the next day, kind of did a production and just had all the filling stuff ready. And I just rolled out. You know, actually it was 109, as it turned out.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, wow.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Diane Morgan]

We did move our freezer. So I have the freezer in the garage, and it worked really well. And I was like, okay, it's production.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. It's just like a different way of. A different way of working. You kind of have to restructure your brain and your habits, and you do.

[Diane Morgan]

And actually, what's funny is I need absolutely no cookware. But most of my stuff's in storage, but I packed this large three ply copper brazier and this other all clad brazier that has like that black exterior. And neither of them work on my induction burner. So I forced myself to buy a misen 7 quart enamel cast iron pot, which is great.

[Megan Scott]

Would you say that's your, is that like your workhorse pot? Is that something you use all the time?

[Diane Morgan]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, now, I mean, with the induction and my new range, when it comes, will have three gas burners and two induction burners. And so I've gotten way better with induction and I'm actually loving it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I've been wondering about induction because we've, we have a gas stove and we've kind of been thinking about getting an induction.

[Shannon Larson]

But I just moved into a house, I had a gas stove and now we just bought a house this summer and have an induction oven now. And it's taken me a little time to get used to, honestly, especially going from gas. But Diane, do you have any recommendations on how you're using yours?

[Diane Morgan]

Well, the thing is, is that like when you turn it off, it's off. And so like last night my daughter thought we should put together a Hanukkah dinner. So we've celebrated both Christmas and Hanukkah and she was making challah and I said I wanted to make Lucky's and so I did keep out my. It's actually my grandmother's cast iron skillet. It's an, it's a 10 inch literally from probably the early 1900s.

[Megan Scott]

Wow.

[Diane Morgan]

I took it over to Molly's and on her, she has a wolf induction range and it was brilliant for doing the Lucky's. Like there wasn't really any splatter. It was.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, wow.

[Diane Morgan]

I know because I like had it at this set temperature. It was cooking perfectly and it was even heat across the pan. It was. I was like, okay, this is great. But like I can simmer soups and know that when I turn it down, it's like just staying at that simmer. Whereas gas, as much as I love gas, there's just a tiny bit more variability that you kind of have to watch it a little bit more. It's like my slow introduction to, you know, getting my, my range. That will come eventually.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I hope it comes soon and I hope your kitchen remodel is going well. We're going to move into our tasting segment and then we will progress and ask you more questions. Diane. So this week's topic is main dishes for a crowd. And John and I did not feel like cooking anything for the podcast today. So we used that as an excuse to go buy some fancy cheese, which is kind of also something we do when we host, when we have crowds over at our house.

[Jon Becker]

I came up with an ingenious excuse for doing this and that is to encourage our listeners to, you know, if they're feeling like a little overwhelmed, that, you know, you don't necessarily have to dirty every pot in the house in order to, in order to entertain. And, you know, a good cheese plate can go a long way. It's not, it's not a main course, but, but anyways, that's our excuse for buying fancy cheese.

[Megan Scott]

You can buy things.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

You can supplement things you make with things that you buy. And so we brought, we got four cheeses and I'll quickly talk through them. So the first one we should probably taste is the Hollerhocker, which I just tried for the first time yesterday. It's a raw cow's milk alpine cheese. It has a really like dense, fudgy texture and it's very savory. It's like very umami and kind of has a little bit of like oniony ness but not pronounced. It's really good. This is Isle of Mull cheddar, which is a super interesting cheese. I don't know if you watched Succession, but it was Peter's special cheese in succession. And it's a very good, it is a very special cheese. It's a Scottish cheddar. It is. The cows are grass fed, but they're also fed fermented grains from a nearby Scotch distillery. And the cheese does have like a booziness to it that a cheddar normally doesn't have. It's very, it's very good. And then this one, what is this one called? It's called Rue Ardoise, a pasteurized goat bloomy cheese with like a ashed rind. And it's, it's in a wheel shape so the, it doesn't have a center. It's like a donut. And that helps it ripen evenly from the inside out so it doesn't have like any chalky center like those cheeses can sometimes have. And then finally, this is called Shake Rag Blue, which is a blue from Tennessee. It's wrapped in whiskey soaked fig leaves. So this one's also a little boozy. Also very good. I don't like cheese at all.

[Shannon Larson]

No, you, you obviously don't like cheese.

[Megan Scott]

But yeah, we should start with the Hollerhocker.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm So excited for this. Where did you get all of this?

[Diane Morgan]

What color is the hollow hopper?

[Megan Scott]

It is. It's like a off white color. It's like a. Oh, yeah. We can turn the camera around. It's this one.

[Diane Morgan]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

So it's an Alpine, sort of in the Comte General Comte family.

[Shannon Larson]

Where did you get all of this?

[Megan Scott]

Cowbell.

[Shannon Larson]

Okay.

[Jon Becker]

Cowbell. Fine cheese. Inner Southeast Portland. Very, very wonderful shop.

[Diane Morgan]

A dangerous place for me.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my gosh. That's so good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's, like, nutty. A little bit of that onioniness coming through.

[Shannon Larson]

Good amount of salt.

[Megan Scott]

I love everything about an Alpine cheese.

[Shannon Larson]

I love everything about cheese.

[Megan Scott]

Me too.

[Jon Becker]

The folks at Calvo were very helpful, as they always are, in helping us choose.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, they let you taste everything, and they're very accommodating and very nice.

[Jon Becker]

Very enabling.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, very enabling. And I've. I've heard it said that you. You know, not everyone feels this way, but some people feel you should never serve a cheese plate at a. Like a dinner when you're having people over because people fill up on cheese. I do not see the problem.

[Shannon Larson]

I do not see a problem with it either.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Shannon Larson]

If I go over to your house and there's a cheese plate, I'm happy. I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

Okay. I love Mull, Peter's special cheese.

[Shannon Larson]

I really need to watch that show.

[Megan Scott]

I think you would like it, but it's a bit of a funky. Like it's a cheddar, but it's a bit funky because of the fermented grain.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I love it. Oh, it comes after. That's great.

[Megan Scott]

Diane, have you had that one Isle of Mull?

[Diane Morgan]

I have. I have. I'm really sorry that I did not join you all.

[Megan Scott]

I know, I know. I wish we had some cheese for you. Okay. And this one. You really need bread for the Rue Ardois. Is that what it is? Did I say that right? Okay.

[Jon Becker]

I think so.

[Megan Scott]

This is an interesting cheese, and I. I've never seen it before, and I was unable to find basically anything about it online because I was doing a little research on the cheeses, and it's. I don't know if it's a newer cheese or there's just not that much about it. But it's beautiful. It's got that nice ash rind.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. And this is definitely super ripe. Yeah. At other. At, like, at. At a supermarket, this would definitely be discounted, which is funny to me, because it's. When it's perfect, it's.

[Diane Morgan]

So this is the one with the. Donut center.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Diane Morgan]

I've not seen this cheese.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I had never seen it before. It's a goat bloomy cheese. It's. It's fantastic. It's got that beautiful super white paste.

[Shannon Larson]

But it looks kind of goth on the outside.

[Megan Scott]

It does look goth. I love it.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. Our producer's cheese.

[Megan Scott]

That's great. Finally we have the Shake Rag Blue, which I think is a very nice name for a cheese.

[Shannon Larson]

Shake rag.

[Megan Scott]

Shake Rag.

[Shannon Larson]

And this is Tennessee.

[Megan Scott]

Tennessee wrapped in fig leaves. There's a lot of really solid domestic artisan cheeses in the U.S. i feel like the U.S. gets a bad rap for not having good cheese, but there is so, so much good cheese.

[Shannon Larson]

It was like my favorite thing about going to Vermont was going and eating the chees there. I mean, and it's beautiful, but oh my gosh. So good. That's really delicious.

[Megan Scott]

That's fantastic. I also just. So John gave me a puzzle for Christmas that's like a. It was like a map of France with cheeses all over it. Depending, you know, like each region has many cheeses, but the cheese was like put on superimposed over the region where it's from. I just finished it the other day. And so my brain. Cheese is definitely on my brain.

[Shannon Larson]

Cheese is always on your brain, though.

[Megan Scott]

I know you work. That was delicious. Yes.

[Shannon Larson]

Thank you.

[Megan Scott]

Thank you to us for bringing this delicious cheese. And Diane. Yeah. I wish we could have shared some with you, but now we're going to move into our interview segment where we just ask you questions and yeah, my first question for you, you're such a prolific cookbook author. How did you get started cooking and writing for a living? Because you. You graduated with a mathematics degree, right?

[Diane Morgan]

Right. From Reed. Yep. So the Cliff Notes version of this is that after my sophomore year at Reed, I did a summer project and so did my then boyfriend, husband of forever, at a restaurant, a very boutique restaurant in Port Townsend, Washington. The chef owner was a friend of James Beard and same generation and he was professor of theater set design at University of Washington. And food was his second love. And he decided they bought this farmhouse in Port Townsend and decided to do weekend entertaining dinner parties as a kind of almost like the original pop up restaurant. It just kind of grew from that to where they would have in the summers they had fixed price, fixed menu dinners four nights a week, and in the off season it was three. They had Friday night, Saturday night, two seatings, and Sunday they had a sort of a lunchtime seating and we heard about it, went there and ate and you know, in that way you are when you're like, 20, 21, you're like, God, we ought to get a job there. This looks like really a lot of fun. And we ended up getting jobs there because he was originally from Pittsburgh, which is where I grew up.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, nice.

[Diane Morgan]

Honestly, he hired us because he wanted to figure out what Pittsburgh was like. 50 years later, we were his kitchen helpers. And he was so intellectual about cooking, and he just kept feeding me cookbooks to, like, oh, take this home, you know, on your off days and read it. And that's what I was doing. And I was just like, oh, my God, this is fascinating. We'd have these great conversations, and it spurred this interest. And so I ended up working there three summers when I graduated from Reed, and I was moving to Chicago to be with Greg because he was in graduate school. John Conway said to me, oh, you ought to reach out to this person who was at the Chicago Tribune. And she said to me, oh, no, you need to talk to Alma Locke, who was food and editor for 20 years at the Chicago Sometimes. And I met Alma, and she's like, oh, I need you to be my assistant at my cooking school. Because she had retired from food writing, and I became her assistant for five years, and she was my second mentor. And as much as John Conway was this kind of looser and just very sort of spur of the moment collaborative, like, let's try this, and let's see what this tastes like. Alma was very. She was trained from the Cordon Bleu. She and Julia Child were of the same era.

[Megan Scott]

Mm.

[Diane Morgan]

And she wrote this cookbook called the House and why's the French Cooking? Which was published by the University of Chicago Press. And so it didn't get the play, but it's a brilliant book.

[Megan Scott]

When you were kind of getting into this world, which approach resonated most with you? Like, were you more experimental? Were you drawn to, like, a more experimental side or the more, you know, classical French side of things?

[Diane Morgan]

It was kind of a weird mentorship because I loved both. It kind of gave me a window into both. But. But you'll appreciate that the first time I chopped onions for Alma, she's like, I don't know what that is. Put it in a Ziploc bag and I'll take it home for stock and let me show you how to dice. And so it was always that. It was like, you know, I peel an apple and she'd go, okay, save all the peelings because you've left so much flesh on the skin. That I'm going to make jelly. And I always accepted it as she wasn't, like, nasty about it. It was this learning, like, I'm trying to show you that there's the right way to do things. And so whereas John Conway would have maybe not cared that onions weren't perfectly diced, you know, if he was making a Hungarian goulash, it really wouldn't have mattered. Whereas for Alma, you know, if she's making, you know, a mirepoix, it mattered to her. And so it was just that this. Both worlds, seeing both worlds of that, that was great. So I ended up being her assistant for five years. And while I was doing that, because it wasn't full time, I became this chef for this executive dining room doing lunches. And it was best job ever, because. Except it was funny. You were talking about eggplant parmeth, the owner of the company who I was making. So they had meetings. They had, like, executive meetings almost every day at lunch. And this was his thing. He wanted, like, these catered lunches. And so I would come in and I'd cook for always. For 12 people, but not always 12 people were there. They didn't want the leftovers, so we. I would take home the leftovers, and that's how we ate. Because Greg was in graduate school, you know, he was.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Diane Morgan]

And so you were poor, so it was great. And I. I don't know if you'll remember this book, but there was an author named Perla Myers who wrote this book called Market to Kitchen. And she had this big tone. I mean, it was, I don't know, 400 recipes. And I loved her style. I loved her flavors. And I basically worked my way through that book. And I was just making, you know, and it was just great. It was a great way for me to just try tons and tons of recipes. And they had no idea that I was like. I'd never made that before.

[Megan Scott]

Kind of on the cookbook side of things, if you had to pick, like, let's say, five cookbooks that you feel influenced your career in food, what would those cookbooks be? Or even three, however many you want to mention.

[Diane Morgan]

That's it. On the spot. Okay. Well, absolutely. Perla Myers, from Market to Kitchen. Absolutely. Because I cooked so much out of it. I also. Because Alma also, while she was teaching French cooking classes, she also did Chinese. And so I became a huge fan of Barbara Trop, who did. Was it the Fine Art of Chinese Cooking? It's something like that. But Barbara Chop was this incredibly intellectual cook. She was American, but she knew Mandarin. She had lived in China. And she took it on as this very personal mission to teach real Chinese cooking. And the only downside to her book is that her recipes were so. It was like Julia Chow of how she wrote recipes. So if you were trying to stir fry, I got to the point where I would just have to yellow highlight, like the next step. Like, when do you add the garlic and when do you add the beef and when do you add the snow peas and that kind of thing? Because there were five or six sentences between those steps. And once you kind of got the rhythm of it, you didn't need all the like, fine details.

[Megan Scott]

Right.

[Jon Becker]

Was the formatting of the recipes similar to Julia Child's? And that has that column on the left side.

[Diane Morgan]

Yeah, Paragraph style. I did a lot of Chinese early on, just influenced by Alma, and did a lot of French. Honestly, probably Julia Child, because that's who you went to for doing the classic dishes. You know, I mean, I was in the era where you were making coquille St. Jacques and classic, classic, you know, souffles and things like that. While I learned it from Alma's book, it was kind of nice to have both. Yeah, those are old, old cookbooks that go back so I could be pandering and say it was the joy of cooking. And I had no. I don't know, it was always there for my basics. If you needed to make pancakes or you need to make waffles, or you needed to make sauerkraut or something, it was always there for that. But it wasn't because of, I think, the influence of the cooking and my mentors. It wasn't my go to because I had the French influence of that. And Perla Myers was. She was very early what we would now, you know, refer to as Mediterranean cooking.

[Megan Scott]

And I want to talk about at least one of your cookbooks. The roots cookbook comes to mind, obviously, because we are deep in root vegetable season.

[Diane Morgan]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I have a specific question about parsnips, but before I ask, ask that question. Do you have a favorite root vegetable that you never get tired of?

[Diane Morgan]

Oh, that's hard. Because there's many. Honestly, it would be a toss up between beets and celery root.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, okay.

[Jon Becker]

Nice celery root.

[Diane Morgan]

Because I want. It's in season now and you buy. You know, it drives me crazy when I see these little tennis ball sized celery roots.

[Megan Scott]

It's like you want the bigger.

[Diane Morgan]

You have to peel away that. It's like you hardly have anything left Whereas I'm going for the ones that are like the biggest grapefruit size. Bigger than grapefruit.

[Megan Scott]

Like a pomelo.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Diane Morgan]

That's the kind of size you're looking through. In fact, when we were at the farmer's market before Christmas and I was looking for celery root, I said to the guy, are there anyone's bigger? And he pulls out this bag and I happened to have had on this white puffy coat. And I looked at Greg and I'm like, would you put your hand in the bag? Because I knew I was just going to slime my. My coat. And so we got a couple of big slimes.

[Jon Becker]

Celery.

[Megan Scott]

What do you like to do with them?

[Diane Morgan]

Oh, my gosh. Because you can eat them raw and they cook like. I love to do a celery root puree I just found in the freezer. I don't even want to tell you what year it was from, but in my roots book, I did a celery root and pear puree and it's delicious. And I found like quart sized container of it in the freezer.

[Megan Scott]

I love that it freezes. Well, it was from before COVID Oh, nice. I mean, you know, the freezer. Sometimes the freezer delivers treasures that we didn't even know we had.

[Jon Becker]

Really.

[Diane Morgan]

It depends on what it is. But when you have something that, that is that thick, like there's no air pockets.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah.

[Diane Morgan]

And I had put a piece of film over the top before I put the lid on and there was no ice build up. It's totally great.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Totally fine. And now I want to ask my parsnip question. So I want to know your favorite ways for cooking parsnips, because I like parsnips. Okay. I don't love them. And we get a bunch of them in our csa. So I need. I don't. I can just roast them, but somehow it just never quite does it for me.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, I feel like when. When we treat them just like carrots or whatever, I mean, you know, we. You can do that, but it's not necessarily like speaking to the strengths of the parsnip.

[Shannon Larson]

They don't have that same sweetness, like that sugariness that carrots do. I feel like sometimes I agree with you.

[Diane Morgan]

The rule is you don't buy parsnips until after the first frost because they haven't developed the sweetness that they will have. And you don't buy ones where the top end, the stem end is really big because the centerpiece will Be really woody.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Diane Morgan]

And so I always look for smaller ones, a little bit bigger than a carrot, but not a lot, lot bigger. So if you see ones that are like three inches across, don't buy them because they're going to be very woody in the center. I actually love to cut them into like index finger sized pieces along with carrots. And I toss them in olive oil and salt and pepper and fresh thyme and roast them on a sheet pan. I love a really good parsnip soup that I garnished with bacon. And one of my favorite things that I did in the roots book is I made a parsnip cake like a carrot cake, but substituted parsnips.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, okay. That sounds promising.

[Diane Morgan]

It's so good and it's pretty. And I decided when I did the cake, it's a cream cheese frosting with it. And I didn't. I just put the cream cheese between the layers and on top, but not the side. So it just comes out a little bit more rustic looking.

[Megan Scott]

Nice. And that seems like it would be a good parsnips. I'm thinking of. There are these muffins that I make sometimes that have. I think they're called morning glory muffins or something. They have grated carrot in them. I think parsnips seem like they would be a good stand in for carrots in those.

[Diane Morgan]

Absolutely, Absolutely. They work. It's like a one on one substitution.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Okay, cool. I'm getting.

[Jon Becker]

So think of.

[Diane Morgan]

You can go sweet with them.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. One more question for you, Diane. You've been doing this a long time. Do you have any advice for like newer, less experienced cooks to help them? Either give them strength to cook another dinner or just advice that you've picked up over your years of, of cooking.

[Diane Morgan]

So is this with cooking or writing for cooking?

[Megan Scott]

I would say cooking. Yeah.

[Diane Morgan]

I, I think the rhythm that I've always enjoyed is that we all have what I think are back pocket recipes. We all have these ones that we know we make. And I think it is great to keep those in rotation and like maybe two or three times a week, depending on your schedule, is that you just do something new because it always spurs something that maybe it just wasn't what you were thinking about. And I think it's like how you can slowly expand your repertoire. But I know right now making something that generates leftovers for me is brilliant because we don't have a kitchen. And so if it's a night where all I have to do is put two bowls of a salmon chowder in the microwave. That's great. Or my green curry salmon. That's great. It's like easy to do and I'm not in this mode right now unless I go to my daughter's. But it's just fun to just like, you know, whether you pin something or print off something from websites or dog ear cookbooks or whatever, but just to keep doing something new often and maybe even have a, like a Sunday project day where you're cooking something bigger that just allows you to learn something else. I learned something yesterday. I was making Lucky's and I saw this. Someone used one of those reusable mesh produce bags that you buy that you know, you use instead of filling plastic bags, you take a clean one and that's what I squeezed out my Luckies.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, okay.

[Diane Morgan]

And I'm like friggin brilliant. It wasn't cheesecloth, it wasn't a towel that they say, oh yeah, you just soak it in and it'll be clean. It never is clean. There's always this like brownish ring to it. But this was amazing. I just grated the potatoes and onions and put them in that and squeezed it out and you can really get it squeezed out.

[Megan Scott]

That's a really good trick.

[Diane Morgan]

And it was not. I'm not original to that. I'm not taking credit. I'm just telling you it really worked. It was great.

[Megan Scott]

Diane, before we move on to the next segment, where can listeners follow you?

[Diane Morgan]

I am on Instagram. Diane Morgan cooks. My Instagram is not regular. I pop in a lot more regularly when we travel just because it's fun. I thought I would pop in more with this remodel and I'm going to try to because I think it's just such an interesting process.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we want some process picks.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I definitely want to see that stove.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Diane Morgan]

Well, I ordered a French range last July and it may come until this coming summer. So I will be putting in the 30 inch dual fuel Electrolux that we, when we bought the house it had, which honest goodness, is a perfectly decent range. And I will have to just put that in place until my bigger one comes. And that's okay. I'm in the stage of adaptability.

[Megan Scott]

That's good. Awesome. Well, okay, we're going to move into answering our caller question for this week. We're talking about main dishes for a crowd. Sarah, would you mind reading the clip?

[Sarah Marshall]

I would love to hear your recommendations for straightforward but crowd pleasing recipes for hosting, specifically main course suggestions. I'm used to cooking for two so thought of hosting a group of six or more is daunting.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's very relatable.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And I would say we were talking about this topic, and really our. Our strategy is make something that can be basically totally made ahead of time.

[Shannon Larson]

Yep.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. So all you have to do is put some finishing touches on it or maybe toss a salad or something.

[Jon Becker]

I'm in total agreement. For anyone who hyperventilates when they watch the Feast of the Seven Fishes episode of the Bear, I feel like we're all on the same page with this. Like, probably get most of the cooking done ahead of time. Yeah. You know, I mean, it depends on the season as far as, like, specific dishes go. Braises, something down home, or, like, goulash or something quote, unquote fancy, like coq a vin. Those kinds of things are nice.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I feel like a beef bourguignon. Or, you know, if you have vegetarians, you can do a mushroom version of that, which is also delicious. Or something like pozole, like a stew.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Gumbo is a. Especially, like a seafood gumbo. Feels kind of special. We've done that several times. In fact, I have an old roommate to credit for that. He invited several of our professors over to. To our apartment and made up this, you know, big batch of seafood gumbo out of the Paul Prudhomme version. And everybody was, like, super impressed. And I was, like, okay, taking notes here. This was all done ahead of time, and everybody was super happy.

[Megan Scott]

Was that the Paul Prudhomme recipe that comes from that book where the COVID is just wild?

[Jon Becker]

A cornucopia of meats?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's like, meats hanging everywhere. He's, like, wearing a dress of meats.

[Jon Becker]

No, he is festooned with meat, with meats of all sorts. It's a very impressive couple. But, yeah, you know, baked pastas is another thing that we have definitely leaned on quite a bit.

[Megan Scott]

Lasagna.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. We added a really good recipe for roasted mushroom lasagna. Getting. Getting back to mushrooms. But also, you know, I think we talked to Anna Heazel about her Sunday gravy lasagna. That's like a showstopper that everybody will be super impressed with.

[Shannon Larson]

We do chili a lot. Chili is a really fun one, because then you can also ask other people. Like, often people want to bring things to a party. So if you're focused on the main dish, I'd be like, megan, make your cornbread. Your cornbread is great. So I think that's also something to keep in mind, is if you're actually hosting Focus the meat on the main dish, and people want to bring sides, so.

[Jon Becker]

Well, and also people can bring toppings.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

You know, and that's like, kind of the similar appeal for pozole, except maybe people don't get as crazy with toppings with pozole. But, you know, that and chili both are kind of like. There's a DIY aspect to it. It's not necessarily participatory, but it's, you know, customizable. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Just fun.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Megan Scott]

You can set up, like, a bar and have people build their own bowls.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I've done that many times.

[Megan Scott]

I think that was the last time we had dinner at your house.

[Shannon Larson]

I know.

[Megan Scott]

Chili.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. I mean, it's nobody. Nobody goes away, like, unhappy.

[Megan Scott]

Have a bowl of chili and full and. Yeah, yeah. Full and happy.

[Jon Becker]

And also like grandma pizzas or, you know, pizzas that don't require, you know, you to basically tend one of those fancy and finicky pizza ovens for the whole time that you're trying to host people.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, a pan pizza.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

We do have a pizza oven. One of the. An uni. And we like it a lot, and it makes great pizzas. And, you know, you cook a pizza in, like, five to seven minutes or something, so it's great. But it does require you to stand by the oven. Someone has to stand by the oven and do the actual pizza making. So. And we've tried doing the thing where you let people make their own pizzas and put them, but there's like a. You know, you learn how to do it. There's a kind of skill to it, and so that can be a little chaotic. And so now we only do that for, like, small. Like, I would say sick. Up to six people. We would do that.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. If you have somebody to trade off with on, like, the pizza baking duties, that. That works out pretty good. And then also, you can encourage people to bring their own toppings if, you know. So again, like, there's kind of a potlucky aspect that you could bring into the equation.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And we also wanted to talk a little bit about in terms of participatory dining. Like, we really love doing a hot pot. So, like, Szechuan hot pot. But only. Only with people who can handle themselves around a little. Either open flame or, like, you've got a hot plate in the table, in the center of the table. You can't be throwing stuff in there. You got. There's, you know, you gotta tenderly place items into the hot Pot.

[Shannon Larson]

Choose your guests wisely.

[Megan Scott]

Yes. Choose your guests, know your guests.

[Jon Becker]

Now, I feel like there are a few caveats with hotpot. I think that one time we tried to do it with an induction burner and we didn't really think about like the cooling fan that induction burners have that, that that is required to cool them, which kind of like. I don't know, it's a little distracting. It's hard to.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

It made noise and could it. We've refined our game since then, but. Diane, what do you like to serve main dish wise for a larger gathering?

[Diane Morgan]

I think it depends on the time of day I have done. I will sometimes in the summer do like a big sort of main course salad where you can, you know, if I think it's a crowd, I don't know. I have options for toppings. You know, it might be shrimp or it might be grilled chicken or steak or something where you can kind of just play around with adding things to it in a buffet style. I think I like the whole idea of the chowders and all of that where there's just a lot of accompaniments. The other sounds kind of, but especially with kids is a taco bar.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, that's a great idea.

[Diane Morgan]

Where you just have lots of fillings and toppings and people can just pick and choose. And it's so easy because it works for vegans and vegetarians and carnivores. I mean, it's a pretty easy. And my daughter has done like taco nights with her 2 and 5 year old. Not that the 2 year old is going through a little buffet line, but he can point, but it's just because they're so picky. Yeah, one thing and one likes the other and you just have a whole table full of stuff. And so that works pretty well.

[Megan Scott]

And that's a nice way for kids too, to still have choices rather than, you know, sitting a plate in front of them and saying, eat it.

[Shannon Larson]

Some ownership.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, they can add toppings or choose what they want. That's fun.

[Diane Morgan]

But you know, when I've done for adult crowds for a big. I once did this. It's like I think back on some of these things I did. It was like I did this party for 22 people and it was a dinner and I made Hungarian goulash. And oh my God, everyone loved it. And I don't think people. If you had asked them if they like Hungarian goulash, they would have said, oh, I don't know. And it's super delicious. And it was really Easier to serve in these shallow bowls. And so it's just a fork. Like, you think about what either you're using a spoon or a fork and you're standing around, and it totally worked.

[Jon Becker]

Okay. Goulash has been mentioned several times, and that means we have to make it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Diane Morgan]

The other thing that's been successful for me and it is fun to do for just a small group, but is risotto.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah. I love risotto. I've never made it for a group, though. I always get in my head about the right texture for it, and I feel like it turns out better if it's made in a slightly smaller batch. But obviously restaurants do it all the time, so I don't know.

[Diane Morgan]

Yeah. And actually, one of the things that happened before I got my bigger pan is I was making risotto and realizing that my. That's when I figured out that my pot that I thought was the risotto pot that I use didn't work on induction, and I needed to go to this flat scan pan, and it worked. And I'm like, oh, okay. I hadn't thought about making risotto in a flat pan.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. The evaporation would be a little different, so you'd have to add stock maybe a little bit faster or more stock and more stock. Getting reduced more means probably a tastier risotto.

[Diane Morgan]

So it surprised me. And you're right, actually. I hadn't really thought about the reduction aspect of it, but you're absolutely right.

[Megan Scott]

If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, we have one quick question before we get into next week's topic. This is just a quick one that I know you guys can answer that will help some listeners. So it says, hi. I've loved Joy of Cooking for four decades. I really loved the iPad app when it came out, but it doesn't seem available for the new iPad. Is it no longer available? Loved making menus with it, learning about ingredients, and just having it easily fit on the table while cooking. Thanks for the podcast. Looking forward to new episodes.

[Megan Scott]

Beth.

[Jon Becker]

Well, that's. It's very sweet. We're proud of that app. We worked pretty hard on it for several years. It actually was like one of the things that really prepared us for putting together the 2019 edition. Shout out to the people we did it with. James and Kim, very sad that it's only available for the 2006 edition, but if you purchased it, it's no longer for sale. But if you have purchased it, you can just go into the App Store and then you go to where the list of purchased apps and you should be able to download it, no problem. And it does work with. Last time I checked the latest version of iOS and I feel like it's going to continue to.

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, thanks for answering Beth's question. And I just want to encourage our listeners to call and leave your voicemails so we can hear your voice instead, instead of mine. But most of our messages have been coming in with text, which is totally great. You can keep doing that, but also feel free to leave us a voicemail. So here is our question that will give us our topic for next week, which is. My brother gifts me his home brew every year. I'm not a big beer drinker. Any good recipes that call for homebrew?

[Megan Scott]

I love some. I look forward to answering that next week. What's everybody doing this week? What are you looking forward to?

[Shannon Larson]

I'm making chili. I thought New Year's Eve dinner would be. We're just, we're staying in and so I just thought a pot of chili sounded kind of comforting and nice. And we'll probably go to sleep at like 10.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. You know, as it should be. Watch the Twilight.

[Shannon Larson]

Old Twilight Zone episodes. Go to sleep.

[Megan Scott]

That's what we do. We're having a few people over on New Year's Day.

[Shannon Larson]

Including myself.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, including you. I'm gonna just make all the Southern good luck foods, so collard greens, cornbread. I haven't decided if I'm doing black eyed peas or veal peas yet. Ooh, that is.

[Jon Becker]

I don't know if veal peas has a good luck tradition associated with it, though.

[Megan Scott]

So I think we might feel like they're similar enough.

[Shannon Larson]

You know, what if we say they're good luck?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's good.

[Shannon Larson]

There you go.

[Megan Scott]

And there will probably be some kind of. It won't be in the food because I don't know who eats pork and who doesn't, but some kind of a pork thing on the side that people can add if they want, but yeah, that's. I'm looking forward to that. I don't know why I don't make Southern food more.

[Shannon Larson]

I don't know why either.

[Megan Scott]

I think it's because when I go home, that's what I look forward to eating when I go. Go home and visit my family. But I maybe just don't make it as much for myself. I like it when other people make it for me.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I see.

[Jon Becker]

The responsibility is mine.

[Megan Scott]

What about you, Diane? Anything you're looking forward to this week? Cooking or eating wise?

[Diane Morgan]

Absolutely. I have no idea. Greg and I usually stay in for New Year's Eve. A couple times we've done early dinners out, but you've kind of got me spurred on the cheese thing. I mean, honestly, if we had a plate of cheese and some charcuterie and a nice glass of wine and, yeah, I would be really content. So. See, that's the perfect thing. Without a kitchen, you can make a great meal.

[Megan Scott]

Absolutely. I ate so much when I studied abroad in France, I really, so many meals were just cheese and bread and like, oh, yeah, cheap wine. So good. Yeah. Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on Apple podcasts and itunes. Follow us on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we'll tackle cooking with home brewed beer. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Dave Dreske, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.