Claire Lower: A Casual Culinary Chat About Sandwiches

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: Episode Featuring Claire Lower on Sandwiches

Release Date: May 16, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast, hosted by Shannon Larson alongside co-authors Megan Scott and Jon Becker, special guest Claire Lower joins the conversation to delve into the world of sandwiches. The episode, titled "Claire Lower: A Casual Culinary Chat About Sandwiches," offers listeners a delightful exploration of culinary techniques, personal anecdotes, and expert insights into one of America's favorite handheld meals.

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1. Welcoming Claire Lower

The episode kicks off with the hosts sharing their recent culinary adventures, particularly focusing on their use of green garlic and mustard greens. Megan Scott humorously recounts Jon Becker’s enthusiastic yet unplanned farmer's market purchases, leading to an abundance of green garlic and other greens.

Megan Scott [02:00]: “We have a problem in this household where someone buys mustard greens without a plan, and then they go bad in the fridge because there's no plan.”

Shannon Larson empathizes, highlighting the importance of having a game plan when purchasing perishable greens to avoid waste.

2. Challenges in the Kitchen

The conversation transitions to personal kitchen mishaps, with Megan sharing her experience of dealing with a dental emergency and how Jon adeptly stepped in to create a comforting shepherd's pie enriched with green garlic.

Megan Scott [02:24]: “I've been eating a lot of soft foods because I had a very sad emergency dental extraction last Friday, and it's been kind of brutal.”

Jon Becker adds his own twist to the meal, mentioning the inclusion of rutabaga and green garlic, underscoring the duo’s adaptability in the kitchen.

3. Introducing Claire Lower

The spotlight then shifts to Claire Lower, a seasoned food writer and editor at Christopher Kimball's Milk Street. Claire introduces herself, sharing her background in blogging at Lifehacker and her transition into more structured recipe development at Milk Street.

Claire Lower [06:31]: “I've been a food writer and editor for over 10 years now... I get to cook for fun.”

4. From Recipe Development to Culinary Creativity

Claire discusses the shift from the precision required in recipe development to the freedom of recreational cooking. She emphasizes the joy of experimenting with recipes without the pressure of publishing, allowing her to learn baking and explore new culinary techniques.

Claire Lower [12:48]: “Now I'm really enjoying recipes because I've been kind of forced to follow them for work and I'm like, oh, it's actually so nice to let someone else shoulder the responsibility of this going well.”

5. The Art of Sandwich Making

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the intricacies of sandwich preparation. Claire articulates her philosophy on sandwiches as a true test of a cook’s ability to balance textures and flavors.

Claire Lower [21:22]: “If you really want to test someone's innate understanding of combining textures and flavors, ask them to make you a sandwich.”

The hosts and Claire delve into various aspects of sandwich making, from the importance of toasting bread appropriately to the strategic layering of ingredients to ensure structural stability and prevent sogginess.

Jon Becker [23:21]: “With a layer cake, it's not like you're gonna put two layers of filling, you know, and then. But with a sandwich... disaster can happen.”

6. Favorite Sandwiches and Personal Stories

The discussion becomes more personal as each participant shares their favorite sandwich types and the stories behind them. Shannon Larson reminisces about public subs, highlighting her love for turkey with provolone and spicy additions like banana peppers and jalapeños.

Shannon Larson [33:10]: “I make a pretty mean sandwich. Unless those people who really like their bread, like, extra toasted come over and I'm like, I'm not making you a sandwich.”

Claire Lower adds her preference for a classic ham and butter baguette, emphasizing quality ingredients and the delicate balance of flavors.

Claire Lower [37:03]: “Just ham, butter on baguette. Perfect.”

7. Recipe of the Week: Pan Bagnat

As the episode approaches its conclusion, the hosts introduce the Recipe of the Week—Pan Bagnat, a Provencal press tuna sandwich. Megan Scott provides a detailed description, enticing listeners to try this summery delight.

Megan Scott [41:49]: “This sandwich is super summery. And then you wrap it really tightly and press it under something. So like, a skillet or, you know.”

Listeners are encouraged to cook along, with the recipe featured on page 138 of the 2019 edition of The Joy of Cooking.

8. Listener Engagement and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a segment on listener engagement, where Sarah Marshall reads a question from a listener about rhubarb recipes. The hosts share their own cooking plans for the week, ranging from turkey sloppy joes to kimchi fried rice, fostering a sense of community and shared culinary passion.

Shannon Larson [43:09]: “It's stupidly exciting. I feel old.”

The hosts conclude by inviting listeners to follow them on social media, submit their own cooking stories, and stay tuned for future episodes focusing on diverse culinary topics.

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Notable Quotes:

• Megan Scott [02:00]: “We have a problem in this household where someone buys mustard greens without a plan, and then they go bad in the fridge because there's no plan.”

• Claire Lower [21:22]: “If you really want to test someone's innate understanding of combining textures and flavors, ask them to make you a sandwich.”

• Shannon Larson [33:10]: “I make a pretty mean sandwich. Unless those people who really like their bread, like, extra toasted come over and I'm like, I'm not making you a sandwich.”

• Claire Lower [37:03]: “Just ham, butter on baguette. Perfect.”

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Conclusion

This episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast masterfully blends personal stories with professional insights, offering listeners both entertainment and practical culinary advice. Claire Lower’s expertise enriches the conversation, particularly around the nuanced art of sandwich making, making it a must-listen for home cooks eager to elevate their sandwich game.

Transcript

[Unknown]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan, and new crow caretaker.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night, and I like opening ingredients and smelling them.

[Jon Becker]

I'm Jon Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook, and I am a green garlic impulse buyer.

[Megan Scott]

We've been eating a lot of green garlic this week. It's so good.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds like it's good for you.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, I like the way it tastes.

[Jon Becker]

What happens when I have a solo trip to the farmer's market? Nobody can sit. Say no.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I set him. I set him loose at the farmer's market and then, gosh, it was fine. He brought home a lot of green garlic and rhubarb. Oh, h. Yeah, Imagine that.

[Jon Becker]

And mustard greens.

[Megan Scott]

And mustard greens, which I do like. I like mustard greens a lot. However, we have a problem in this household where someone buys mustard greens without a plan, and then they go bad in the fridge because there's no plan. So that's my only criteria is, like, you can buy them, but there has to be a game plan.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like there are certain greens that you just have to like. I really want them in the spring especially. But you have to know exactly how you're going to cook them, and you have to implement them into your meal plan.

[Jon Becker]

They're around if we need them.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Scott]

So you don't have a plan for these mustard greens that you just got?

[Jon Becker]

I've already used, like, half of them.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Shannon Larson]

They're like no plan comfort mustard greens. He's just happy that they're there and.

[Claire Lower]

They'Re in the fridge.

[Jon Becker]

I mean, sometimes the guy packages them up into, like, a heart shape. It's really.

[Megan Scott]

I know. They are really pretty. Oh, they're beautiful. I've been eating a lot of soft foods because I had a very sad emergency dental extraction last Friday, and it's been kind of brutal. So John did make me a shepherd's pie, which was great and perfect for exactly what I need.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like there was green garlic in that.

[Megan Scott]

There was.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm so sorry. About your tooth. All right.

[Megan Scott]

No, I am too rip. Yes. I did not want to leave.

[Claire Lower]

No.

[Jon Becker]

And then there was a gil feather turnip and rutabaga economy with green garlic.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. That was really good. And we had been kind of avoiding the rutabaga for a while.

[Shannon Larson]

I know we talked about that.

[Megan Scott]

Things don't go bad. They last forever. So we still had it from our winter CSA which ended several weeks ago.

[Shannon Larson]

But you did it.

[Megan Scott]

John did it.

[Shannon Larson]

John did it. Good job, John.

[Jon Becker]

Yay me.

[Megan Scott]

What have you been cooking this week, Shannon?

[Shannon Larson]

I made my first real like full salad from the garden which I'm super excited about. I've been patient about letting my lettuce really grow in and like be beautiful. And we also have asparagus that was planted from previous owners. So I've been literally cutting it out of the garden and eating it raw because it's so good. Fresh asparagus is bonkers good. Like it's so different. And then my radishes are going nuts. So that's what I've been eating also. I've been really wanting crow friends for a very long time and we're finally there so we're feeding them some of our dog Flossy's good quality kibble and just making sure they have fresh water. And so I'm excited about eating for myself. But mostly I'm excited to feed the crows and hope that that is very exciting.

[Megan Scott]

I hope that they bring you things.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, it's been disgusting so far. They put in the bird bath is disgusting. So I'm questioning everything. I like went out and there were like it's gross but like guts from some kind of animal. I'm just cleaning the bird bath a lot.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. But they're so pretty doing their crow stuff.

[Jon Becker]

It's more of a bloodbath.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. I just, I feel like when you have crows around your house, sometimes I. I just feel like protected or something.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. They're looking out for you.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And they recognize ne do wells.

[Shannon Larson]

Yes, they do. And they tell their friends cuz we've already had two more join for the disgusting bird situation.

[Megan Scott]

I love that for you. It's very exciting.

[Shannon Larson]

My husband is questioning it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, well, yeah, we'll. I wanted to talk about quickly our recipe of the week which was tagliatel with wilted greens. John, do you want to talk about.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh no.

[Jon Becker]

Well, because of your tooth extraction, we. They kind of fly in the ointment with that. So.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I couldn't really eat that.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, the green. The greens in particular the pasta would have been fine. I should have made the fresh pasta.

[Megan Scott]

Without the greens, but, yeah, we didn't make it. This was a wild week. I. I blame the dentist, you know, just. Yeah, it really threw a wrench in all of our plans this week.

[Shannon Larson]

If it helps, we make your pasta recipe. That's the one pasta. Fresh pasta recipe we use. Like, we just go to that one. So it amazing and perfect and delicious. And you can use a pasta maker or you can just hand. Oftentimes, I kind of like my pasta kind of like thicker and hand cut, and it's perfect for that too. And we just used arugula from the garden, and it was super, super easy. Super great weeknight meal because fresh pasta actually doesn't take as much time as people think it might. Yeah, you just have to do it and then let it sit for a minute and then you can just make it wonky and weird and it's great.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, it's a perfect for mustard greens.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Scott]

All right, this week we would like to welcome Claire lower to the table. Claire, welcome to the podcast.

[Claire Lower]

Thank you so much. So thrilled to be here.

[Megan Scott]

Would you briefly tell us what you do?

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. So I've been a food writer and editor for over 10 years now, I think, which is wild. Right now I'm currently at Christopher Kimball's Milk Street. I am the digital editor, which means I write the online articles, what some would colloquially refer to as blogs, but I don't call them that, even though in my former life I was a big blogger, capital B blogger at Lifehacker, which, as you know, you may or may not know, is part of the Gawker family of blogs. So firmly blog. But this is. This is a little different. They're more online articles. And I also write and edit the editing editorial emails and newsletters that go out.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. So writing, editing, I don't do any recipe development anymore, which I kind of miss. But I also don't miss because now I get to cook for fun.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's the only thing about recipe development sometimes is like you. You kind of are. You have to eat the thing that.

[Claire Lower]

You make the thing. And if you don't eat the thing, you're a bad person. And if you complain about having to eat the cake that you like, the third cake that you've made. Oh, your job so hard. You have to eat cake. But sometimes it is hard to eat three cakes in like. And, you know, you can give them.

[Megan Scott]

Away and stuff, but still, there's only so many people. I mean, we have a lot of friends, and even so, I feel like every time we bake a cake, I'm just like, what? What? How many people do I need to eat this cake?

[Claire Lower]

And then you have to transport the cake. Yeah, I've started when I do baked goods now because I still cook the milk street recipes before I write about them, which is the fun part. Like, they've done all the hard work of figuring out the ratios and the times and all that. I just get to bake a cake and then I take it to the gym with me.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

I work out just at a powerlifting gym, so it's like, no machines, no one is there to lose weight, which is very important to me. In a gym that, like, the. The goal is just, like, to lift up something super heavy and then set it back down so everyone there, like, no one hesitates to eat the cake.

[Megan Scott]

That's nice.

[Claire Lower]

We do have a few vegans, so, like, I try to bring in vegan stuff for them every once in a while, but, yeah, that's my cake disposal strategy now is just take it to the powerlifting gym.

[Megan Scott]

That's the only problem. I go to Orange Theory, and I really like it, but a lot of people are there to lose weight, and I have a feeling that if I brought cake, it might not be as readily accepted.

[Claire Lower]

Saboteur.

[Megan Scott]

Exactly.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. They'd be like, what are you trying to do do? My gym loves Cake Pro Cake Gym.

[Megan Scott]

It's a good gym. I mean, I feel like we were just talking about a lot of spring kind of cooking, like salad and mustard greens. What does cooking look like for you in the spring? Or is it the same as it always is?

[Claire Lower]

Oh, gosh. I would like to say that I have, you know, meal plans and things that I do every spring, but that's just simply not true. Like, I am very chaotic, and it depends on, like, what I'm feeling that week, if I'm in town, if I'm out of town. I do have a small asparagus bed on the side of my house that came in my house. So I've been doing the same thing you've been doing, which is just snapping it up and chowing down, like.

[Shannon Larson]

But then you don't have enough for, like, a meal because I'm just snacking on it.

[Claire Lower]

My bed is. So I've had it for, like, at least four years. And I know you have to wait three years before you start, but I've waited, like, four years, and I never took anything from it. Cause it was only like, seven or eight spears. And I was like, that's not enough. You have to wait. And then I did wait this year. And finally I was just like, fine. I don't care if it's. I'm eating all of these spears, but it's never enough. It's two or three at a time. Which is fine, because then it's just. For me, I can justify not sharing because there simply is not enough to share. And also, my partner, if you give him asparagus, he will only eat the top spear. And it makes me so mad that I've just quit making anything with him that has asparagus in it.

[Megan Scott]

Cause I guess he doesn't deserve it.

[Claire Lower]

He doesn't deserve it. Particularly right now in the spring. Like, no way. So I guess spring cooking means depriving my boyfriend of asparagus. That's what I'm really focusing on.

[Jon Becker]

That is the tenderloin of the asparagus.

[Shannon Larson]

Exactly.

[Jon Becker]

This is an aristocrat.

[Claire Lower]

He thinks he is. I do joke. I call him the Little Prince sometimes because he's so. But he actually had to do some cooking. I call it cooking air frying recently because I had hand surgery so I couldn't hold a knife. And the only time he ever cooks, he's only cooked in my kitchen twice. Once for the hand surgery, and then the other time was when I broke my ankle and could not stand for six weeks. So he was like, you can't follow me. And he'd run into the kitchen because I am one of those horrible people that will stand and be like, oh, that's how you're cutting the onion. Because he can't cut an onion still. But anyway, so I relate to you so much, really.

[Shannon Larson]

I am annoying. So annoying in the kitchen.

[Claire Lower]

I wish I was different. I wish I could teach someone without being awful right about it. But I can't. So he just doesn't go in the kitchen. If I am able to get up and go in there and hold a knife. And I'm like, on opiates. I guess that's how he did it the other weekend as I was on pain meds. And we've been eating a lot of Costco chicken breasts. The ones that are like the Chick Fil a patties.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm a new Costco member, so I need to write this down.

[Claire Lower]

Girl. They're in a green bag, okay? They have nuggets that could call them chunks, because they are. They're like chunks of chicken breasts, not like a processed nugget. And they taste just like the chick fil a ones. But anyway, he discovered that he could cook them in the air fryer. And then he pours a little bit of tomato sauce and then he puts mozzarella on top of. And he makes his little chicken parms.

[Megan Scott]

Perfect. Yeah, Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

I sound, like, really condescending right now.

[Shannon Larson]

But he was really happy, actually.

[Megan Scott]

I'd be happy to eat that.

[Claire Lower]

They're good. Yeah, they're really good. What else am I excited? Rhubarb. I need to do some more stuff with rhubarb before the season ends.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we're going to get into rhubarb later.

[Claire Lower]

I won't tell my rhubarb secret.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, Save it for later. You kind of did this already a little bit. But other than being annoying in the kitchen, what is your cooking style like? Are you. Do you like to follow recipes? Exactly. Do you like to just kind of throw down?

[Claire Lower]

So now I'm really enjoying recipes because I've been kind of forced to follow them for work and I'm like, oh, it's actually so nice to let someone else shoulder the responsibility of this going well. Because when I was at Lifehacker and I was just developing stuff, every time I cooked, I was like, this is an opportunity to identify a new topic to write about. You better not waste it on pleasure. You need to turn it into something you can put online so the people may learn. You know, that was fun. But it's just like, now I'm really enjoying recipes. I'm actually learning how to bake.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, nice.

[Claire Lower]

I never did any baking development at Lifehacker because, for one thing, I was writing three articles, three blogs a day, and developing a baking hack or a baking recipe. Like, the amount of knowledge you have to have, the amount of baking you have to do, just, it wasn't workable. It was much easier to feel like a fried egg hack.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Like you could cook eight fried eggs in an hour. But baking, I just. I didn't have time to really, like, delve into it. But now I figured out pie crust, which for years. I don't. I think I told you years ago, like, I can't make pie crust without crying. I can now. I learned how to frost a cake. I. And I'm like, oh, those are like.

[Megan Scott]

Top level baking skills too. I mean, it's not like a one bowl cake or something.

[Claire Lower]

No, no. It was like a layered cake.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Like, I'll show you a picture because I'm really proud of it because it looks like someone who is not a child. And before everything looked like a child.

[Shannon Larson]

I'd done it as somebody who used to write recipes and, like, develop recipes. Do you find yourself when you're cooking now that you follow recipes to the T, or do you add things?

[Claire Lower]

And if I'm doing it to write about it, I try to do it just by the book completely, at least once, not change out the oil for something like bacon grease. Like, my thing at Lifehacker is I was like, can I use bacon grease in this? Okay, I'm gonna use bacon grease. And then I would tell people I use bacon grease, but you use a different oil if you want to. The kitchen in Boston at Milk street is. They're all the most earnest, kind. But, like. Like, there's a seriousness to it that, like, I did not bring to my work. My previous work, where, like, I don't want to insult them by applying my weird brain to what they've so meticulously. Like, they. They make something so many times, and they all taste it, and they all discuss it, and they go back to it, and Chris tastes it and it. So it's. It's such a long process that, like, I'm, Like, I'm not gonna. Yeah, Sully it.

[Megan Scott]

Just let them do their thing and trust the process.

[Claire Lower]

But if it is not for work or if I've already made it once, yeah, I will get weird and I will start making substitutions, because that's very fun for me.

[Jon Becker]

I mean, that's generally good advice, right? You know, you follow the recipe once and then go to town if you like it the first time.

[Claire Lower]

And the other part of my brain, because I went to school for chemistry, which I was not smart enough to pull off, as it turns out, or at least not smart enough in that way. Like, I was working in a research lab, and it was going fine. And I'm actually, like, a pretty good synthetic chemistry. I'm great at, like, mixing things and getting beautiful crystals, and everything comes out clean. What I'm not good at is then continuing to talk about it for a long time. Like, we would. I would go out to the bar with a bunch of grad students. They would just keep talking about lab work, and I was like, okay, I actually don't think I'm going to go to grad school, because this is. I want to talk about something else now. But anyway. But the concept of changing one variable at a time, it was so just instilled in me in a lab environment, because I also did an internship at dupont, and so anytime I'm working on a recipe or I'm messing with a recipe or I'm making any change to food. I try to just change one thing at a time.

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[Megan Scott]

Since this is the Joy of Cooking podcast, what is your relationship to the Joy of Cooking? Like is this a cookbook you grew up with?

[Claire Lower]

So it was always there. My stepmom, big Joy of Cooking fan. Actually the 2019, the version I bought that you signed, I gave to her made her entire year. But I have a little, it's like a two volume 1960 something edition. They're like the size of paperback novels. There's two of them. One is Maine's and one is desserts and appetizers and God, when I still lived in Florida, what year would this have been?

[Jon Becker]

How's the binding doing on those?

[Claire Lower]

Not great.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, I mean I have yet to see one that's like, you know, in like actual usable like non in pieces form.

[Claire Lower]

So mine was and then yesterday I brought it out and then trying to get it back into its little case, I tore the COVID of volume one and I'm pretty upset about it. But let's take a trip back in time to Florida. The year 2009. Something I don't know, it's for 4th of July. We used to throw these big 4th of July party as my ex and I and a boozy watermelon was, was one of the things we really wanted and I, I don't know how I stumbled. I was just, I just like looking through cookbooks. I probably read more cookbooks than I actually use because I just like they're looking at everyone's writing style and the way that the recipes are formatted and I saw one that said, like, for plugged fruits.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, Plugged. It's a. It's a verb, apparently. Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

From what I understood is that you. You take like a watermelon and you make a hole and then you plug it with a bottle of alcohol.

[Megan Scott]

Yep.

[Claire Lower]

And I was, you know, I was like, this sounds like what we need for my party.

[Jon Becker]

I mean, it does sound like a good idea.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

What? No.

[Jon Becker]

Where's that moisture going?

[Claire Lower]

Well, it says it needs eight hours, and it worked.

[Jon Becker]

It did, yeah.

[Claire Lower]

For. It took eight hours. I mean, it may have even taken a little longer because it was a big watermelon.

[Shannon Larson]

What did you use? Like what? Booze?

[Claire Lower]

Tequila, I think would have been the one.

[Megan Scott]

What's not to like? Tequila and watermelon. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

It does sound really good.

[Claire Lower]

It wasn't as quick as the. I think the other recipe I used a year before was like a Martha Stewart method where you slice it up and. But I was like, but I want the visual.

[Megan Scott]

It's very dramatic.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. And it. Maybe the whole bottle didn't make it, but I can tell you, based on my memories, or lack thereof, of the party, that it worked just fine.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like we. We try to do it and it didn't work.

[Megan Scott]

Well, we tried it. I don't know.

[Jon Becker]

It.

[Megan Scott]

It felt like the watermelon was so juicy that there was just nowhere for the liquid to go. There was nowhere for the booze to go.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. I mean, you know, water contents vary from melon to melon. I also. I may have made the hole, like, bigger than the neck.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Jon Becker]

So you're letting.

[Megan Scott]

So it could really sit in there.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah, so there could. And also. So there could be, like, a little air coming out.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Because I think if you. If the plug. If the plug is too tight in.

[Megan Scott]

Your plugs, there's no airflow.

[Claire Lower]

There's no airflow. And then, you know, it's just going to stay. So I used the physics classes that I had taken to figure that out, because I'm a woman of science college.

[Jon Becker]

This is the value of stem.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

This is women in stem. Thank you. This is what our current administration is fighting.

[Jon Becker]

God damn it.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. This is what is at stake. Sad.

[Jon Becker]

No, It's a dark future.

[Megan Scott]

You said in the intake form that we send all of our guests that you want to talk about sandwiches. So I would love to talk about sandwiches with you. What about sandwiches? Did you. First of all, what did you want to talk about? I have a ton of questions about sandwiches.

[Claire Lower]

Okay. So I'm just going to start with my broad take on sandwiches and why I think they are so important. Anyone can follow a recipe. Well, no, that's not true. A lot of people can follow a recipe, but, like, if you really want to test someone's innate understanding of combining textures and flavors, ask them to make you a sandwich, and you will know 85% of what you need to know about how they approach flavor and texture. The other thing I love about sandwiches is that everyone has a sandwich that they are willing to yell about. For me, it's just the regular tomato sandwich, white bread, mayo, tomato, salt. Don't toast the bread.

[Megan Scott]

No. Oh, no.

[Claire Lower]

You know, eat it over the sink like you're supposed to.

[Megan Scott]

It's supposed to be a little mushy.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

So many thoughts about toasted bread on sandwiches. I really do. I. Everybody likes their bread toasted, and I'm very much like. It very depends on the sandwich for me.

[Claire Lower]

Yes.

[Shannon Larson]

You cannot think about, like, if you want a sandwich, you cannot just assume. Assume it should be toasted bread. Like, I just.

[Jon Becker]

What about a club sandwich?

[Megan Scott]

I feel like depending on the.

[Shannon Larson]

Also, it's lightly toasted bread. For a club sandwich, you don't want it so hard to eat that you're not getting through the other layers.

[Claire Lower]

Right.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Or you can think about it stirring up the roof of your mouth, which.

[Shannon Larson]

Will happen depending on. Especially the kind of bread. But, yeah, sometimes I'm like, I don't want my bread toasted. And people are like, oh, my gosh.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. And you know what? I don't always want cheese on a sandwich.

[Megan Scott]

Mm.

[Claire Lower]

And everyone acts. I love cheese so much. Like, this is not a matter of me appreciating cheese. You have to listen to the ingredients.

[Shannon Larson]

Exactly. And the textures.

[Claire Lower]

Yes. I could tell you can make a great sandwich.

[Shannon Larson]

I make a really. I'm.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I make a pretty mean sandwich. Unless those people who really like their bread, like, extra toasted come over and I'm like, I'm not making you a sandwich. I'm sorry.

[Claire Lower]

I'm not obliterate. I'm not. You're not gonna compromise your values, your integrity? No.

[Jon Becker]

Well, and also, like, it tests your assembly skill. It's not just a question of, like, what you're putting into that sandwich. It's also, like, there's the kind of, I guess, architectural layering. Gotta make sure that it's structurally stable.

[Megan Scott]

That, you know, like making a cake. Making a layer cake.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Very architectural. You really have to think about it.

[Jon Becker]

Right. Well, I mean, you know, with a layer cake, it's not like you're gonna put two layers of filling, you know, and then.

[Megan Scott]

I'm not. Don't be literal.

[Jon Becker]

I'm just saying, like, that those. Those kinds of mistakes actually are possible with a sandwich. With a cake, it's more of like a boom, boom, boom. But with a sandwich, like, disaster can happen if you put two slippery ingredients next to one another, and then, you know, they. On the way. On the way up, it's just like.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah, it's just like that.

[Megan Scott]

Just like.

[Claire Lower]

It's just like.

[Megan Scott]

So I find. I love sandwiches, but I also find that once I get to the very end of the sandwich, I almost always leave a little nubbin of bread on my plate. I just. I can't eat the last bite of bread that's bare, you know? Like, I just don't.

[Jon Becker]

I find this embarrassing.

[Claire Lower]

I'm qu. No, I'm quietly applauding. And here's why. My boyfriend, which it seems like something you're about to do, is yell at her about leaving an oven, and he does the same thing. And you know what? I just don't want it. And that's okay. Yeah, Yeah, I do it almost. And it makes him so mad. And I swear I'm not doing it just to know. I leave a little bit of food on most of my plates, and I don't know, it's because when I'm eating, I prioritize bites. So the last bite is definitely the worst one.

[Megan Scott]

Trash.

[Claire Lower]

I've left the worst bite on the plate.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I'm the opposite.

[Jon Becker]

Maybe you could just say it's like it's the angel's share or whatever.

[Shannon Larson]

I always save a really good bite for the last bite.

[Megan Scott]

That's what I do. I save the good, the best bite for the last, which can really bite you in the butt. Because sometimes the person that you live with.

[Shannon Larson]

Meghan's pointing at John right now that.

[Megan Scott]

They can have a bite of your food. And it's usually the, like, the last bite that you've been saving and the one you want the most.

[Jon Becker]

When did this happen? Like, happened once. Like. Like seven years ago, actually.

[Claire Lower]

This is going to make me sound insane, but I kind of, like, rotate quality of bites. I don't know. Like, it's almost like a bell curve. Like we're going to hit the best parts in the middle. We start out kind of and then kind of taper off again. Because I don't want to get the best part out of the way. That's a good point. You don't want to get the best part away first. You want to ease into the bliss, really enjoy it, and then taper off and leave the nubbin.

[Megan Scott]

See?

[Shannon Larson]

And sometimes, like, if there's, like, a vegetable dish. I love vegetables. Sometimes there's a vegetable dish I'm not as excited about, but I know I need to eat it because of vitamins and all of that. Sometimes I'll just get that out of the way first. First I just shove that in, and I'm like, all right, I did it. I'm good. And then I enjoy the rest of the meal.

[Claire Lower]

Right?

[Shannon Larson]

I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

This is so you heard of the concept? This is something I saw on social media. Now I'm gonna forget what it's called, but this woman was calling it, like, eating like a dinosaur. She was like, you know, I'm tired of just. I'm tired of eating big salads. I just am gonna open this clamshell of baby spinach and shove a bunch of leaves in my mouth and just get it out of the way. Just, like, eat all my vegetables first thing, and then I don't have to worry about it.

[Shannon Larson]

I can't imagine eating a, like, mouthful of raw spinach.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's really my favorite.

[Claire Lower]

Well, I'm trying.

[Megan Scott]

This sounds flawed, but the concept is intriguing. You know, I treat it like a pill.

[Claire Lower]

I had a friend who would do that, and he called it hand salad.

[Megan Scott]

This episode is off the rails. Great.

[Claire Lower]

Have me on any time.

[Megan Scott]

Wait, I feel like we're gonna run out of time before I ask you all my sandwich questions. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you one. At least one more.

[Jon Becker]

We moved on to salads.

[Megan Scott]

No, no, no. We have to go back to sandwiches. I'm sorry. Are you familiar with the pineapple mayo sandwich?

[Claire Lower]

Yeah, I've seen it. So the pineapple mayo sandwich. I know it's Southern. We were a tomato sandwich family. But it's spiritually aligned with pear salad.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, I didn't even think about pear salad.

[Claire Lower]

And I was betrayed by a pear salad at a church function.

[Megan Scott]

What happened?

[Claire Lower]

Well, I just didn't know what it was. Oh, no. And I ate it. And then I was like, why would you betray me? Because it was like, for those that don't know, it's half of a can of pear with a dollop of mayo. Shredded cheese. I'm so sorry.

[Shannon Larson]

Your poor producer is, like, sweating.

[Claire Lower]

He's so gr. And then a cherry on top, because that'll fix it. And I thought the mayo was cottage cheese. And I was like, then it's acceptable because I like cottage. I'm one of those who loves cottage cheese. But it wasn't. And when you're expecting cottage cheese, and I'm so sorry. And you get mayonnaise. It is so upsetting. And so the combination of fruit and mayo, I. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

This just reminded me of my cousin Marshall. Went to a wedding with the rest of his family, saw a bowl of what he thought was mashed potatoes, and it turned out that it was a gigantic bowl of horseradish because there was prime rib beans served. And so he burned his face off. And then the rest of his family, they got food poisoning, whereas he ate the horseradish.

[Megan Scott]

That is the weirdest.

[Claire Lower]

What a twist. That's like M. Night Shyamalan shit.

[Shannon Larson]

I wasn't expecting that at all.

[Jon Becker]

Okay, sorry. I mean, that. That was kind of a happy ending version. Sure, yeah, yeah, there was a lot of pain, but, you know, brief, fleeting.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's a nice.

[Claire Lower]

Not like horseradish.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Which goes on forever.

[Jon Becker]

I was going to talk about, like writing sandwich recipes and how I feel stupid when I do it or when I edit them. It does feel, because it's. It's a. Like you were saying, it's a skill. I mean, you know, you can. You can definitely list ingredients and. But you know, then it just feels like you're making somebody a grocery list. And of course, like, there are plenty of sandwiches where there's like an involved preparation for one of the fillings and whatnot. And you know, don't get me wrong, it's all legit. And you know, pressed sandwiches, like a Reuben or whatever, you know, there's. There's some guidance that you need. But as far as sandwich recipes and joy, I feel like one of our favorites that we added was the Sabich.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah. Sa Beach. Which has remind me of all the things. It's been so long since I've had one eggplant.

[Jon Becker]

Fried. Fried eggplant. Oh, no.

[Claire Lower]

Wow.

[Jon Becker]

There it is again.

[Claire Lower]

Never beating the eggplant allegations. You were always talking about eggplant.

[Shannon Larson]

We love it.

[Jon Becker]

No, but it's all about the condiments because, you know, it's especially like if you have the Amba mango pickle. Mango pickle puree. That sounds really good. I mean, all of this. We were introduced to the sandwich by a food cart. A food cart. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

But yeah, the ceviche was delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

Wait, I have one question. If you're just going to assemble a simple bread, lettuce, meat, cheese, tomato, and with like condiments, what is the like, level scenario, like, where do you buy the lettuce? Where do you put the mayo, mustard, whatever.

[Megan Scott]

John, you go. You make more sandwiches than me.

[Jon Becker]

I don't know. It's just like. It's so context dependent. What. What is the quality of the protein.

[Shannon Larson]

And sandwiches are hard.

[Claire Lower]

They are.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I mean, to improvise, the mayonnaise goes on the bread.

[Jon Becker]

Well, obviously.

[Claire Lower]

Okay, but both pieces.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Claire Lower]

Okay, good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, you don't. Bread is dry. Like, you gotta lube it up a little. The.

[Claire Lower]

I was gonna say lube it up and then I was like, don't do that. But then you did, and now I.

[Megan Scott]

Couldn'T think of another word.

[Claire Lower]

It's the right word.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. It offers protection so the sandwich doesn't get soggy.

[Jon Becker]

Oh, yeah. One thing that we did not put in the book that I would like to add to the next edition is to protect it against sogginess. Especially if you're wrapping the sandwich and taking it somewhere is like a nice little coat of oil. A little. Little bit of olive oil on the bread.

[Megan Scott]

Brushed on.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, just brushed on.

[Shannon Larson]

On the inside of the sandwich.

[Jon Becker]

The inside, yeah. And maybe a tiny bit on the outside. But even after, like, you know, an hour, still nice and nice and not dry. Not sogged out. Not dry.

[Megan Scott]

Okay. But after the mayonnaise, I also will on a lot of sandwiches. I'm a big Dijon mustard person. I love Dijon mustard. So I will put a lot of mustard on there. And I feel like sandwiches need a lot of flavor. Like, they just need a lot of stuff to make them flavorful.

[Claire Lower]

I'm a maximalist.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Claire Lower]

Except for the tomato sandwich. Then I get very weird about it and very angry. Who makes my favorite mustard right now? Oh, beaver.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, beaver mustard is really good.

[Claire Lower]

They've been sending me a lot of mustard. I got on their must their list.

[Megan Scott]

Somehow I need to get on their list.

[Claire Lower]

Once you get on, you will never get off and you will be set for mustard for life. They've got a great. Like their pub mustard, that's the one I'm really into right now, is the pub mustard.

[Jon Becker]

Oh, is that like, really sweet and really spicy?

[Claire Lower]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And their jalapeno one is really good too.

[Jon Becker]

And I think they're also responsible for the Engelhofer. Yeah, I feel like the Engelhofer, like, the whole grain is pretty good.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like we could do a season of sandwiches.

[Megan Scott]

We really could.

[Jon Becker]

Or condiments, I mean.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Can I ask y' all a sandwich question?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Okay. What sandwich do you take to the beach, to the park, out and about. What is your ideal picnic sandwich?

[Shannon Larson]

So I also lived in Florida for a while. But I will have to say, the public subs are so good. And it. I like the turkey. Like, very simple turkey. Boar's head, provolone, shredded lettuce. Always shredded lettuce, mayo, a lot of mustard, banana peppers, jalapenos. Like, a lot of spice. Oh, I. My mouth is watering right now.

[Claire Lower]

I miss the public subs. I. I liked the Italian. The boars had Italian.

[Shannon Larson]

So good.

[Claire Lower]

But I would do the same stuff, just all of the.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Toppings.

[Shannon Larson]

But on the beach especially, it's perfect. Like a. Like, good sub sandwich.

[Claire Lower]

Yep.

[Shannon Larson]

With shredded lettuce. That's like the key.

[Claire Lower]

Underlined lettuce, really underrated.

[Jon Becker]

Shredded iceberg. It really. I wouldn't say soaks up, but there's, like, so much surface area going on that, like, especially if you get it with the dressing with the oil and vinegar. It's just really nice. It just kind of soaks it up a little.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's good.

[Claire Lower]

It grabs.

[Megan Scott]

It does.

[Claire Lower]

It, like, keeps things from sliding. Like that thing you were talking about earlier.

[Jon Becker]

It fixes that problem now much better than just like, straight up leaves.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah, sure. Like, spinach is maybe the worst leaf to put.

[Megan Scott]

I agree.

[Claire Lower]

On. A sandwich wouldn't do it because it's like.

[Shannon Larson]

It's.

[Megan Scott]

They're slippery. They're also. There's something about the texture of spinach that is, like, matte or like. I don't know.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Rubbery. It's not crispy. It's not crispy. It's like. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

The oxalic acid that's in the spinach that just, like, makes your mouth kind of dry.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it does make your mouth dry.

[Jon Becker]

Not really. Baby spinach. So much of it.

[Megan Scott]

It's not my fave.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. The shreddest shred is always. I was gonna say muffuletta.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Travels really well. It holds really well. It benefits from sitting around at room temperature for a while.

[Jon Becker]

It's made for sharing.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Made for sharing. You can't really get the right kind of bread here, but even. Even on the wrong kind of bread, it's great. It's a great sandwich. The olive salad on the muffaletta is my favorite. Like, sandwich specific condiment.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. That's a really solid one. Yeah. Because the longer it sits, the better it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

It's really. You can't have it sit too long. At least I've never reached that point with a note.

[Shannon Larson]

Do you have one?

[Claire Lower]

I do. Is yours the same? Is it also mufuletta?

[Jon Becker]

I was just gonna. I don't know if this is, like, my favorite, but I was gonna mention the pan baknat. Am I pronouncing that right?

[Megan Scott]

I'm not entirely sure how to pronounce that.

[Claire Lower]

We don't know French.

[Megan Scott]

It should Basque.

[Jon Becker]

We just look at recipes all day. That's all we do. We don't talk to anyone.

[Claire Lower]

I don't know how to pronounce so many food words. And working at Milk street, there have been some meanings where I'm like, oh.

[Megan Scott]

No, I have to say this word.

[Claire Lower]

I don't know how to pronounce Hungarian food words.

[Megan Scott]

It's a pressed sandwich.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. It's another one that's kind of like the muffaletta in that. It's just really, you know, takes well to pressing. And I don't know if a muffaletta takes a while to pressing. It seems like it.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

You kind of compress it a little, like wrap it tightly. But, yeah, the pan bag knot is. I remember reading, I think it was MFK Fisher talks about making one and then having, like, taking a train to a place, and they've got the sandwich, but somebody's, like, sitting on it to compress it, really. Which I just thought was amazing.

[Shannon Larson]

It's warm, too.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's warm.

[Claire Lower]

It's on that one.

[Jon Becker]

Let's see. Tuna.

[Claire Lower]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

It's kind of like aniswa salad sandwich.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, that sounds amazing.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. So it's got tuna. I think sometimes it has egg, pepper, like roasted peppers. What else? It's got all kinds of good things on it.

[Claire Lower]

Samin Nasrat did one with tuna that she had poached herself.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[Claire Lower]

That sounds right.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Can I tell you my beach sandwich?

[Megan Scott]

Yes, please.

[Claire Lower]

Just ham, butter on baguette.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, perfect.

[Jon Becker]

Classic.

[Claire Lower]

And I'm not going to try to pronounce it because I only do Italian words because I took two semesters and I don't know how to speak French at all. Yes, you're so good at that. That one.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I got a degree in it, so I hope I would be good at it. Except for that one sandwich that I can't pronounce. It disobeys so many rules of pronunciation that I can't wrap my brain around it. I don't speak regional French. I speak very Parisian French, so without what you will. That is a perfect sandwich, though.

[Claire Lower]

Thank you so much. I'm very proud of It. Not that I invented it. I'm just proud of being like, why don't you take this to the beach?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. It's definitely more dependent on like, the quality of ingredients.

[Claire Lower]

For sure. Yes.

[Shannon Larson]

Good butter.

[Claire Lower]

Good butter.

[Megan Scott]

Cultured, but very thin ham.

[Claire Lower]

I also, I think it's usually made with just like, thinly sliced deli ham, but I got a country ham a few years ago, and I made it with. With that, and now I need to get another country ham.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Claire Lower]

Because I treat a country ham like prosciutto, where I just keep it on the countertop and just take spices from it. Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

If you want to go in in a country ham, we are down.

[Claire Lower]

Great. Done.

[Shannon Larson]

Count me.

[Jon Becker]

It's reminding me of a sandwich of yesteryear.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Scott]

What?

[Jon Becker]

I went to Spain. This is a long time ago. But they had like a whole. I think it's Panee Company, but it was just like a sandwich shop where they would do a tortilla espanola sandwich with serrano ham on it. And I remember I did that when we were in Tennessee because we were living right down the street from Allen Benton. Not right down the street, but we were. We were really close to Alan Benton. We were closer to Alan Benton than we were to.

[Megan Scott]

And for. I'm gonna interject, for those who don't know, Alan Benton is a. A master of smoky country hams and bacon in east Tennessee. And legendary, legendary bacon. I think he kind of hit it big when Momofuku started using the bacon at their restaurant. But the country hams are outstanding.

[Claire Lower]

So good.

[Jon Becker]

They really are. So, yeah. Thinly sliced country ham on a. I think it was a store bought baguette, but, you know, it was fairly crusty. I mean, you could go with something softer. And then so a tortilla espanola that was, like, cut to size. I think I made. I made it with ramps in it. It was just like an East Tennessee special. It was so good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I remember that sandwich. You can't. It's like, not replicable. You know, you can't replicate that sandwich.

[Jon Becker]

But I feel like it was ramps that I had sauteed a little bit and then made into an aioli.

[Claire Lower]

Wow.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, maybe something like that. Foggy. But it was. Yeah, yeah, it was great.

[Jon Becker]

I still have a picture of it. Could go, you know, do some forensics.

[Shannon Larson]

Post it to the Instagram account.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah, you should. I have so many sandwich pictures in my phone. Like, I think more than any other food.

[Unknown]

Oh, hello. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about an easy way to enhance your meals, whether they are a healthy vegan grain bowl or that late night snack we'll pretend didn't happen the next day. And that easy way is Marshall's haute sauce. For 15 years, chef and cookbook author Sarah Marshall has been hand making and bottling these delicious sauces. She works directly with local farmers and highlights the lovely flavors. Fresh, seasonal produce. They're gluten free. There are no additives, dyes, waxes or binders. And they have mouth watering combinations like serrano ginger, lemongrass or habanero carrot curry or even whiskey smoked ghost, which was featured on Hot Ones. So head on over to marshallshotsauce.com that's Marshall's H a u T E S a u c e.com and see all the available sauces and spice blends. Oh, that's right. Sarah's created spice packets by dehydrating and freeze drying actual produce so you can impart flavor to your food with more vegetables. But that's a story for another day. Find all of these delicious creations@marshallshot sauce.com and enter Haute Joy. That's one word, capital H A U T E, capital J.J. o Y. One word at checkout for 20% off. That's haute joy at checkout for 20% off. And now back to the show.

[Megan Scott]

So each week we choose a topic based on caller questions. And this week we're talking about sandwiches. Sarah, can you read the question?

[Sarah Marshall]

I made the Joy Scouts olive salad and served it with warm ciabatta bread. Then I made the muffuletta and I loved it. What other sandwiches do I need in my life?

[Megan Scott]

So since this episode is about sandwiches, this week's Joy Scouts recipe is the pan bagnat. I am so sorry if I am mispronouncing that. It is a Provencal press tuna sandwich and it does involve eggplant as discussed and a red bell pepper, a roasted pepper, and then tuna. It's got olives happening, some olive oil, lemon juice, Dijon mustard, kind of a little, little olive salad similar to muffaletta but fewer ingredients. And then it's on a baguette or you can use ciabatta and it's got fresh basil. It's got everything. It's a very, it's not summer yet, but I'm feeling summery. And this sandwich is super summery. And then you, you wrap it really tightly and press it under something. So like a skillet or, you know.

[Shannon Larson]

You can sit on it or you.

[Megan Scott]

Can sit on it. That's a classy move, but that will be our recipe of the week and it's on page 138 in the 2019 edition. So please cook along with us. And if you do, please tag us on Instagram at the Joy of Cooking. If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

[Sarah Marshall]

My rhubarb plant is the size of my toddler. What are the easiest rhubarb recipes?

[Megan Scott]

What's everybody cooking this week, listeners?

[Shannon Larson]

We are now recording on Tuesday evenings because we decided that Tuesdays are nobody's favorite days and we wanted something to look forward to, which I'm loving. I'm absolutely loving it. But that also means that it is school lunch dinner night for in my house. So tonight we're going to try a new school lunch dinner, which is turkey sloppy joes. And I haven't had a sloppy joe in a very long time, and I'm so excited to go home and have just like sloppy joes and steamed broccoli and roasted potatoes waiting for me. Very basic, very excited. Also, this is the start of my annoying garden talk because things are blowing up in my garden and every week I'm probably going to be saying how excited I am.

[Megan Scott]

It's thrilling.

[Shannon Larson]

It's stupidly exciting.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel old.

[Megan Scott]

I know I'm in my late 30s. And you can tell because I just want to talk about gardening.

[Shannon Larson]

I just go out in the morning with my coffee and I look at it and I'm like, what is wrong with me? I used to be cool.

[Megan Scott]

John caught me talking to a plant the other day.

[Jon Becker]

It's like, are you talking to a. A plant?

[Megan Scott]

I was telling it it looked beautiful.

[Shannon Larson]

Which one?

[Megan Scott]

There's a plant in our front yard that I don't know what it is.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, the big one.

[Megan Scott]

And I don't remember planting it, so. But it's gorgeous and it's huge. And so I just have, I talk to it occasionally because I think it's going to bloom. Last year it didn't bloom. I don't know. It's a plant that. It's a perennial.

[Shannon Larson]

What do you say to it?

[Megan Scott]

I just said, you're beautiful.

[Jon Becker]

I thought, I thought it was a neighbor cat.

[Megan Scott]

You're so beautiful. Oh, you thought I was talking to a cat?

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I also talk to cats, so that tracks. Yeah. Tonight we're Doing kind of a not. It's similar in that it's really easy to put together after recording the podcast, but we're doing like a Korean freezer food dinner with all of the things we bought the last time we were at H Mart. So all the dumplings, the green onion pancakes, got some sweet potato noodles. So we'll make some japcha. And we have kimchi. So we have all the things.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. And then sopes, I guess, later in the week. Got some fresh masa from three sisters. Nicht Amal. And. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

What about you, Claire?

[Claire Lower]

I'm about to go out of town on Friday, so I've got some leftover rice that I'm probably gonna turn into fried rice tonight. Probably gonna do like a breakfast fried rice because I also have some bacon.

[Megan Scott]

Yum.

[Claire Lower]

Egg scallions. And I have kimchi, so I'll probably put kimchi on it, too.

[Megan Scott]

For kimchi and bacon fried rice. Yeah, exactly.

[Claire Lower]

You know, be healthy.

[Megan Scott]

Where can listeners follow you if you want to be followed?

[Claire Lower]

I love being followed. You can't follow me on Twitter because I got kicked off.

[Megan Scott]

It's really a good sign, though.

[Claire Lower]

I think that's. Yeah. And I got kicked off before it got real.

[Megan Scott]

Whoa.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah. So I'm pretty cool, but I'm on Instagram. Claire. C L A I R E. Liz. Liz Lower. Like the word lower. L O W E R. And I'm very honest. There's not a lot of food content because it's a very personal Instagram, but it's not private.

[Shannon Larson]

Cool. And she has a really cute dog.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Claire Lower]

Oh, yeah. Barbara's good. Barbara Lewis is her full name.

[Megan Scott]

Barbara Content.

[Claire Lower]

Yeah, after her John Prine song. She's perfect.

[Megan Scott]

Aw, yeah. Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast before we go. Show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle rhubarb. And don't forget to make this week's recipe pan Bagnat on page 138. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Dave Dresky, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall our producer.