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The Joy of Cooking Podcast
Ella Quittner on Obsessing with The Best Recipes
01:00:53
Episode 61, Ella Quittner. John and Megan set the table with their friend Shannon Larson and their guest, Ella Quittner, to discuss Joy of Cooking recipes and stories, kitchen victories and miseries, and, most importantly, what they're all cooking and eating. Join us at the table for a casual culinary chat about obsessing over recipes.
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- [00:00]
A
Sa.
- [00:40]
B
Welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we gather around the table to share recipes and stories from the authors of Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and mishaps, and what we're cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, Joy of Cooking user and fan and sloppy joe enthusiast.
- [00:57]
A
I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night, and I'm entering my over salting era.
- [01:06]
B
Congratulations.
- [01:07]
A
Womp. Womp.
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B
What are you over salting?
- [01:11]
A
Oh, man. This past week, I've over salted a pot of beans, dried beans, which is. You really have to add a lot to over salt.
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B
What are you doing?
- [01:19]
A
I managed to do it. I mean, I don't know. I was just shaking it out of. My problem was I was shaking it out of the little salt cellar and not using my fingers to, like, pinch it. I was like, oh, it's fine. I'll just dash some salt in there. Way too much and then some pesto. Way, way over salted. So very thin layer of pesto on the toast is how I've been eating that. And then I did some. Oh, yeah. Last night I kind of over salted some greens. It was not so bad, so they were edible. But I don't know, man. I don't know what's going on.
- [01:48]
B
What did you end up doing with the beans? Anything.
- [01:50]
A
I mean, we ate them. We just put them in other d. Like used them in soups and stuff. So they were kind of diluted and you couldn't tell that they were so salty. But yeah, you couldn't really eat them on their own. Oh, sad.
- [02:00]
B
Sorry.
- [02:02]
A
Gotta get a handle on that. John is not with us today, but he'll be back next time. And I don't know what his intro was gonna be. He usually has something kind of over the top every time, but I can't tell you what it was.
- [02:16]
B
Okay, he owes us.
- [02:18]
A
Yeah, he owes us. Next time we'll get two. What have you been cooking this week, Shannon?
- [02:21]
B
We made sloppy Joe's last night. Just. I. We were like, I have no idea. It was one of those. I don't wanna think about it. And we use ground turkey just to make it a little bit healthier. But they're.
- [02:32]
A
Did you use Manwich?
- [02:33]
B
No, we didn't. We, like did the homemade. We homemade. The sauce.
- [02:36]
A
You did the crunchy sloppy Joe's?
- [02:38]
B
Yeah, we did Crunchy sloppy joes, but still so fun to eat and a ton of food. So we had leftovers and everything, and we're adding it to our, like, you know, school lunch rotation that we.
- [02:50]
A
Nice. That's a really good school lunch. Yeah, it's just like those nights where you, like.
- [02:53]
B
I don't really want to put a lot of thought into it, and I kind of want something simple and satisfying. And so sloppy joes are going on the school lunch menu.
- [03:00]
A
Nice. Did you know that they in some parts of the country, I don't know if they still do, but they used to call it loose meat.
- [03:05]
B
I don't like that one.
- [03:07]
A
I'm not a fan of loose meat either. It's not as fun.
- [03:10]
B
No sloppy joes.
- [03:11]
A
It's not as jaunty as sloppy Joe's. Yeah.
- [03:13]
B
Yeah. And then my John was in New York all last week for work, and I realized I had these, like, plans of making myself, myself these, like, cool dinners or, you know, coming up with interesting things. I just. I. I just ate out of the fridge most nights. I was like, a pickle. Sounds good. O little slice of cheese. That's perfect. And, yeah, I realized I'm not as dinner focused, I think, as. As he is.
- [03:36]
A
I think we're the same. John and I are the same, like, when he's not home, which is not that often, but I usually don't cook for myself. And I'm like, the first person who will be like, oh, you should cook for yourself. Love yourself, nourish yourself, Spend that time on yourself in the kitchen. And then as soon as he's gone, I'm like, cheese, pickles, maybe some sardines.
- [03:53]
B
Yeah, no, cheese and pickles. That was like my go to. And, like, fruit. I ate an orange every night, you know, kind of thing. But it was kind of refreshing to not have that conversation and not have
- [04:03]
A
to think about it. The what's for dinner or dinner thoughts.
- [04:07]
B
It was really nice. I was just like, you know what? I'm gonna eat when I'm hungry? I don't care what time it is, and I'm just gonna eat whatever looks good while getting the nutrients I need, obviously.
- [04:16]
A
But, yeah, you know, it's kind of. It's liberating to do that one. I wouldn't want to do it all the time, but it does feel. It's nice sometimes.
- [04:21]
B
And less dishes. It was.
- [04:23]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [04:24]
B
What about you?
- [04:26]
A
Well, we just got back from the coast, and we got some salmon while we were there, we got some chinook salmon.
- [04:31]
B
Thank you for Some for me.
- [04:33]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah. We brought back smoked salmon and I'm not decided what we're going to do with it yet. John kind of got a lot of it, so I think we can do a few things. But we usually make a salmon chowder with it, some of it. And we'll do like this everything bagel inspired variation where we'll add like a little bit of cream cheese to the chowder base to make it really creamy and then we'll top it with like chopped up dill and we'll have everything bagel croutons to just serve with it and then maybe some extra everything bagel seasoning on it, but just kind of like, yeah, capers, the whole nine yards.
- [05:07]
B
Sounds fun.
- [05:08]
A
Yeah. It's a great variation on salmon chowder. We also made the recipe of the week, which was paneer on page 245. Did you make it, Shannon?
- [05:16]
B
I've made it a lot, yeah. So I didn't this last week. Again, I wasn't cooking much, but I do make it quite often.
- [05:23]
A
Um, do you always use it for like palak paneer or.
- [05:26]
B
That's my favorite way of using it. And I honestly, I like to dip tortilla chips in pallock paneer. That's like my favorite way of eating it. I think it's so good. But we've used it in other, you know, Indian inspired recipes as well. Not always just that.
- [05:39]
A
Yeah. We ended up making Matar paneer with it, which is like a more tomato. It only has a little bit tomato in it, but like a more spiced gravy situation with peas. That was delicious. We used Nick Sharma's recipe, which is fantastic. And I have one tip. For anybody who hasn't made the paneer yet but wants to try it, make sure to pack the cheese curds into like a square or rectangle rectangular container while they're still warm and not fully set yet. I did a really sloppy job on mine, so it looked terrible, but it worked. It just wasn't as beautiful as it could have been.
- [06:13]
B
If you want to make it pretty.
- [06:14]
A
Yeah. Misshapen cheese it was. Tasted great, but, you know. So if you want to make the recipe of the week from last week, that was paneer on page 245 of the 2019 edition of Joy of Cooking. Irma Rombauer believed that cooking should be joyful, and that philosophy changed the way America eats. Her great nephew Kerner carried that same joy and generosity to Napa Valley, founding Rombauer Vineyards in 1980. The winery was built on the same belief that made the cookbook a classic, that good food and wine should bring people together. And just as the joy of cooking has been in American kitchens for nearly a century, today Rombauer is one of California's most celebrated wineries and the perfect pairing for every meal you cook. From the book, your next favorite pairing is waiting@rombauer.com joy. Use code joypod. That's J O Y P O D. All caps for 15% off your order. That's R O M B a u e r.com joy and use code joypod at checkout.
- [07:17]
C
Must be 21 to enjoy.
- [07:20]
A
This week, we'd like to welcome Ella Quintner to the table. Ella Quintner is a journalist who mostly covers restaurants and culture for the New York Times and New York magazine, a screenwriter and author of the cookbook and book of reported essays, Obsessed with the Best. Ella, welcome to the show.
- [07:36]
D
Hi. It was so hard to hear you guys talk about that and not get to share my oversalting tendency.
- [07:42]
A
Please share now. You're welcome to share.
- [07:44]
D
That's it. That's the whole thing. No, I'm just kidding. But I have been thinking about this a lot recently, because as a pregnant person, everyone's always talking to me about electrolytes. Have you got. Has this caught up to you? This idea of, like, you're supposed to be buying these, like, little satchels from Amazon.com of various, like, electrolyte salts, are putting them in your water and stuff?
- [08:04]
A
I buy the emergency packets, which I think are not the same thing. Yeah. I don't know.
- [08:09]
D
But, like, people are always saying, and I'm like, how could this be true? That we're supposed to be, like, drinking more electrolyte water? And I'm like, well, I over salt all of my food. Does that count for nothing? Like, I'm sure I'm getting a thousand extra milligrams at every meal.
- [08:24]
A
I feel the same way. I. I started using electrolyte powder because I get overheated and I pass out sometimes for no apparent reason. So since taking those, I think it helps. I mean, I don't know. I really don't know. I have seen a doctor.
- [08:39]
D
Yes.
- [08:40]
A
But, yeah, the electrolyte powder, that's. But same. Like, I eat plenty of salt and I drink tons of water. I don't. I don't know.
- [08:48]
D
Is it not the same? Do we need to get a doctor on here? I've been dutifully doing it. I bought these ones, Element lmnt, and they're like the saltiest of all of them. And it does make my headaches go away. But I'm like, part of me is like, am I doing something bad? Because I will go through like a half a bottle of soy sauce in a week. You know what I mean? A person that needs more Sal.
- [09:11]
A
It's not clear to me what have you been cooking and eating and loving this week, Ella?
- [09:17]
D
Oh my God. What haven't I been eating this week? I had a rabid craving the other day. Just like out of nowhere. Like I like shot up from the couch and was like blueberry muffins. I made blueberry muffins. I just like googled a random recipe and then tweaked. I'm. I'm not a big cook from recipe person, which always surprises people based on
- [09:35]
A
the nature that is kind of surprising.
- [09:38]
D
But I'll like look up a recipe, kind of just tweak and use what I have. So I made big kind of baked bakery style blueberry muffins and I tried to give them like a sugar lid. Oh yeah, I'm branding it. You know, where you put a lot of sugar on top. Kind of reminiscent of these ones I used to have as a child in Nantucket at this little general store called the Sconcet Market. They were not as good as those, but they were good. What else? I've been using silken tofu in like unbridled and unsanctioned ways. I recently, my friend Becky and I recently made a, we were calling it a Caesar salad dressing, but it was based around silken tofu. So we did silken tofu, parmesan, anchovies, black pepper, lemon juice.
- [10:18]
B
That sounds so good.
- [10:20]
D
So it was not only amazing, but so shelf stable. This was like a week or two ago and I still have a big tub of it in my fridge. The only downside to how well silk and tofu will like emulsify and cream stuff up is it gets very thick in the fridge. So I'll thin it with more lemon juice. When I'm like dressing a new salad I've been doing, I've been developing a recipe with it. I can't, I don't want to share too much, but like a creamy cacio e pepe with silken tofu that I'm really into. So I've been eating that a ton. I've been doing really bizarre stuff with tortilla chips because as I said, I am pregnant. So, like stuff involving tortilla chips and like, like every night at 10pm I'll take out a bag of tortilla chips and then like, whatever dips. I'm sort of in the mood for, like a Greek yogurt, a salsa. Sometimes it'll be, you know, leftover. Whatever it is, I can't say much more. And various spoons for each dip. And then I'll sort of like construct bites on the chips. It's sort of a highlight of my day right now coming up at any point. I mean, I could go on.
- [11:24]
A
I was just thinking, like sloppy joe nachos for some reason.
- [11:27]
B
My God, yes.
- [11:28]
A
Seems like a good idea. Seems like a great idea.
- [11:30]
D
Like a lazy version of that. Sometimes when my husband is not home for dinner, I'll like, again, I'm going through a ton of tortilla chips. So I'll put a bunch of tortilla chips on a plate and put stuff on it or on a sheet pan, like ground meat and cheese and things. And I'll make a sort of like a lazy nacho that's sort of sloppy Joe esque.
- [11:48]
A
Heck, yeah.
- [11:49]
D
Oh, and there's a big froyo boom in New York right now. So I felt it is my sort of professional duty, even though no one is having me write about it, to try all of them. Really strong opinions.
- [12:03]
A
I had no idea there was a boom either.
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D
First of all, boom is insane. Like, my neighborhood specifically.
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A
Is the diversity of frozen yogurt kinds similar to, like the boom in just yogurt itself? Like, are there all different kinds?
- [12:17]
D
No, mostly. And this probably won't come as a surprise if you look at, like, kind of where we are in the TikTok yassification cycle of little treats and food for viral. A lot of them are very kind of topping oriented. So they'll have like a tart flavor of vanilla flavor and then a few fun bonus flavors. But really what people are getting in these long, long, like block long lines for is they'll have like a pistachio nafa or like a Dubai chocolate things and like mochi. One of them, I think it's called Mimi's. There's two locations and they have.
- [12:55]
B
It's like a.
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D
Do your own toppings, pay by weight. And they have just like a vat of cookie dough with a cookie scoop. So people will go in there and like just scoop full scoops of cookie dough on there.
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B
Whoa.
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D
Very toppings oriented, I would say.
- [13:09]
A
Okay. I was kind of hoping that there might be some fun actual, like the base flavor or the base. Whatever the base is made of could be different.
- [13:17]
D
Also hoped that the only One, they've. There are two I've seen that are a little more outside the box. There was like a cookies and cream one that was kind of the color of tart. And then I saw a base that was passion fruit tart.
- [13:29]
B
Oh, that sounds good.
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D
But otherwise it's been very middle of the road. Kind of vanilla chocolate and. But there is tart everywhere, which I find interesting.
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A
And I'm like, yeah, I wonder what's going on there.
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D
Like, what is that? Yeah.
- [13:43]
A
Are you familiar with New Zealand style ice cream?
- [13:45]
D
No. Tell me everything.
- [13:46]
B
I have no idea what you're talking about either, unfortunately.
- [13:49]
A
I think the one that was in Portland closed. I don't know what happened, but. Because it was really good. But it's essentially just frozen fruit ground. It's like ground up so finely that it has an ice cream consistency. So I'm pretty sure it's very simple recipe, but it's the machine that makes it that is particular. And so it whips it into this, like, creamy, like, beauty. The colors are gorgeous. Like, it's strawberry or raspberry. It's just bright colored, but it's. It tastes like pure fruit. It's delicious. But, yeah, I think our place closed, so I'm gonna have to find a new one.
- [14:24]
D
Well, I guess that gives me kind of words to describe something I do in the privacy of my own home a lot, which is banana ice cream. Like the pectin and the bananas, if you freeze them, turns it into that dole whip consistency. We did have a place, I think it was Morgan Stern's bananas that was always very sort of COVID about what exactly was in their ice cream. They'd be like, it's froyo, made from mostly bananas. But there's other stuff. Not all the flavors are vegan. If you need to know more, call us and we'll tell you if they're not vegan, but we won't say what's in them. Like, that was very much the vibe, and it was the consistency of Froyo. And it was recently replaced, I think, by the original Morgan Stearns again, which I'm sad about.
- [15:03]
A
You know, I bet if you took the frozen bananas and. And blended them with, like, frozen raspberries or something, you could kind of get an approximation of that New Zealand style because it would add some of that creamy, like, body to it.
- [15:16]
D
Yeah, I'll do you on further. I'm like, I keep threatening to my husband, I should get a froyo machine.
- [15:22]
A
Just do it.
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B
I mean, might as well.
- [15:24]
A
Yeah, just do It.
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D
Right. The thing is, if I had one because of this boom. And it is crazy. Like, I am not even describing how crazy it is. I will live in the West Village and a lot of these new places are popping up all around my neighborhood. Day and night. I will walk down the streets and it's like sneaker drop style lines just for people to get to get yogurt. Yogurt with like a pistachio drizzle. And I think if I got a froyo machine, I would just be too tempted to start trying to sell froyo. It's like being in the Dutch tulip auction and just like starting to grow tulips. They're like, I'll just keep them for myself, you know, they're so pretty like you. It's truly a crazy thing going on in the city.
- [16:08]
A
Yeah, I need to investigate this. I'm so confused. I also just feel like this is maybe a sign I'm getting a little old. Like, I'm like, oh, frozen yogurt.
- [16:15]
D
What?
- [16:16]
A
Like, we had that in the 90s.
- [16:17]
D
Yeah. I don't know for sure. And there is actually still a Tasty Delight in Murray Hill. And it's on the way home from one of my doctors, so I also go there.
- [16:28]
B
We'll get the froyo thing, I guess, eventually out here in Portland.
- [16:31]
A
Yeah, probably.
- [16:32]
B
Yeah.
- [16:32]
A
In a few years. Yeah.
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D
Such a funny business model too. Because these small ones, you know, these new ones that are popping up that with these crazy lines, I totally can see how they're making money because they don't have that much inventory. Some of them don't have that many toppings. They just have like, cool ones or flavors. But the one remaining Tasty Delight I'm aware of when you go in, they have like 16 flavors and like 200 top.
- [16:58]
A
Oh, my God.
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D
You know what I mean? And then no one's ever in there except for me. I've never seen another patron exit or enter.
- [17:08]
A
I can't even go in those places anymore. I used to. One of my first jobs in high school was working at a Cold Stone Creamery. And any ice cream shop that's even remotely like that. I. The smell, the waffle cone, and it just brings it all back and not in a good way.
- [17:20]
D
Yeah, I worked as a barista for several years. And sometimes when I was young and sometimes the smell of coffee grounds on my fingers, I'm like, oh, I'm hungover in 17.
- [17:31]
B
You mean 21.
- [17:32]
D
Of course I've been 21. Yeah. How do you know I didn't grow up in Europe. What about Ella?
- [17:39]
A
Do you have a signature dish? Is there something that when you go to the potluck or have a friend who needs a care package that you're making for them?
- [17:49]
D
I think it depends on the circumstance and season. Like, can we get a little more specific on this care package scenario?
- [17:54]
A
I guess.
- [17:55]
D
How much do I like her?
- [17:57]
A
I think this is for a person you really like, but maybe it's not so much about the season, but more like a dish that you love so much and have perfected and made so many times that it's the first thing that comes into your mind.
- [18:09]
D
No, because I'm always. I'm very mercurial in the kitchen. I'm always moving on and off things. I would think. I think my longest standing two things that I make for people, and both have the advantage of being really freezer friendly. So they're something I love to bring for people for a care package. Because if you don't have an appetite or if it's like a grief situation or a birth situation and everyone's bringing stuff, you could totally throw them in the freezer and rediscover them in two months and be like, have a fresh perspective. Are my gooey cookie dough malted milk bars. So they're like a chocolate chunk cookie bar, kind of like a cross between a blondie with chocolate chunks and malted milk cookie dough. Because you only kind of bake them to be the texture of fudge. And the other recipe I do a lot is my salted chocolate malted shortbread. So it. I call it a shortbread, but people always think it's a brownie because it's much chewier. But that one is so easy. That's what I'll do if I have, like, two seconds. Because it's like you dump five ingredients into a food processor, blend it together, bake again. They can last for months in the freezer. I also will do a double batch and put some in my freezer.
- [19:21]
A
So you're like a sweet person at home.
- [19:25]
D
For me, I am a both. And, like, I really resent the idea that I would ever have to choose. But all of my sweets are salty. That is, like, a rule. I can say I really don't like a just super sweet sweet. I love a crazily savory or salty sweet same. Hence my electrolyte question.
- [19:49]
A
And the malts powder. The malt powder is, like, such a great way to get, like, a bit of savoriness into a baked good malt powder.
- [19:56]
D
Or just regular milk powder brown butter. I'm always finding ways.
- [20:02]
A
What is your relationship with the Joy of Cooking?
- [20:05]
D
I'm in a long term, committed relationship.
- [20:08]
A
I was hoping you would say that.
- [20:09]
D
Our Facebook status is. It's complicated because we see other people, but I've been using it as a reference text and a cookbook for as long as I can remember. We had to copy, obviously, but growing up, my parents are fantastic cooks, so it was like that. The New Basics, the Silver Palette books were kind of classics. I feel like we had, like a Moosewood Kitchen book, maybe like an Otto Lange book when that started becoming a thing. But Joy of Cooking, I have my own copy right here, actually. That's all, like, marked up.
- [20:40]
A
Oh, lovely. Oh, it's a new one too.
- [20:43]
D
Yes, it's a. This is my updated one at home because my mom still has hers, if she's listening. Good birthday to you. But it's a book I turn to all the time now as an adult and a food professional, for research, actually, because the older I get and the more cookbooks I accumulate, both in the course of my research and just for pleasure, the more I'm just astounded by kind of the volume of information packed into this thing. And, like, I'll even give you an example. I'm in a monthly souffle club called the souffle 80s. It's a bunch of ladies, and we make seasonal souffle. So we get together roughly once a month. And we do, you know, for Halloween we might do, like, a pumpkin sule. We always do one savory, one sweet, and it's a seasonal flavor. The last one we did was a brunch themed sule. So we did a blueberry pancake sule with like, a maple syrup pour and a buttermilk whipped cream. And then we also did. I can't remember what the savory. Oh, we did an everything bagel souffle. So it was like everything bagel seasoning in a gruyere souffle with locks and like, a whipped cream cheese situation. And as much as we've. We've been doing this for years, literally. And it's a bunch of competent cooks that cook all the time. I've probably made like 100 souffles in my life. For whatever reason, every time we get together, we, like, lose it and can't remember how to make a souffle. All of these disasters over the years, right until about six months ago, and we were like, we need to get. Get serious.
- [22:19]
A
Nail it down.
- [22:20]
D
What we need to do is like, codify this. So we. I was like, okay, I'm going to go into the Joy of cooking and just see what they say about souffle, because this is like the reference text I use in that scenario. So from then on, we've been using. I think it's a vanilla souffle we use as our sweet base, and there's a cheese souffle we use as our savory base. And we'll like modify and adapt from there. But it keeps us from getting too out of pocket because, well, there was a time when we, I think we made like a Pierre for any, like, tuna casserole souffle with like four mods. I can't remember if it rose or not. I think some, like, banana ended up in it. So this keeps us on track and I think it does that for me when I'm doing research for my head to head tests. I think I used it really heavily and cited in my cookbook Obsessed with the best because so much ground is covered in these pages. So, like, for my poached egg trials, I turn to the Joy of cooking to see, okay, what have these experts already said and tested? And lo and behold, I think the first sentence, I think I have a flag somewhere in here about poached eggs is something like, oh, no, it's about soft boiled eggs. But the first sentence is like, I probably should have plagiarized this for my book. It says if there's one subject that has sparked disagreement about food writers and home cooks more than any other, it is the best way to boil an egg. Yeah.
- [23:42]
A
Actually, Shannon and I were just talking about this on the way over here.
- [23:47]
B
I picked Megan up and I was like, it's so annoying to me that I cannot figure everybody has a different opinion on boiling eggs.
- [23:54]
C
It.
- [23:54]
B
It's just like, start cold, start boiling.
- [23:57]
D
Can I tell you something about that?
- [23:59]
B
Yes. This is a question that I wanted to ask you. I'm like, what is your opinion?
- [24:04]
D
I will answer it literally. But the thing I want to tell you is not literal.
- [24:07]
B
Okay.
- [24:08]
D
I think people are projecting a lot of stuff onto eggs.
- [24:13]
A
That explains it.
- [24:15]
D
Yes. I think the way that they are, like, insistent, like, oh, you have to do 600 jamming egg or this or this or this. It's like, sorry, this is about you, your needs, where you're coming from, like, what you see in the value of an egg, how you approach cooking generally. I kind of think it's like a metaphor for a person's relationship with food. Like, is food pleasure Is food efficiency? Is it fuel? Does its role change? How are they kind of like coming into the kitchen?
- [24:45]
A
I like this theory. It makes a lot of sense, explains a lot of things.
- [24:48]
B
It explains so much.
- [24:50]
D
And to that end, my answer is I don't think there is a best way to boil an egg. I didn't do boiled eggs in my book. I did it as a column many years ago. So similar bench testing exercise. But for me, I think it for the boiled egg it really depends on the use case.
- [25:04]
A
Yeah.
- [25:05]
D
Like I love an eggs and soldiers so that I would want to be much looser. But if I was making an egg salad sandwich, I might go more in the eight or nine minute arena. Yeah.
- [25:15]
A
I will tell you my feelings.
- [25:17]
B
Please tell me your feelings.
- [25:18]
A
Steam.
- [25:19]
D
Oh, yeah.
- [25:20]
B
You recently mentioned this.
- [25:21]
A
I think I like it because one, you don't have to bring a lot of water to a boil. It boils very quickly. You're not using a lot of water, you're not wasting a lot of water. It seems to help them release from the shell very cleanly every time, even if the eggs are fresher. So you don't have to worry about peeling them. And I feel like it's easy to pin down the temp the times that you like with that method because you, you bring the water to a rolling boil, you put your eggs in, in the steamer basket and then you start your timer. Whereas like when you're starting with cold water and you're bringing it to a boil, it's like, okay, they're already cooking in there. Yeah.
- [25:54]
B
The timing is a little bit funky.
- [25:55]
A
Yeah. So this is like, okay, they're starting now and now I. And you just go, I'm test try it. You should try it. Yep.
- [26:02]
D
And I guess you're reducing the variability of like, you know, when we talk about a simmer and boil. There's something I started paying more attention to in my poached egg trials for the book. I do think even though there are probably definitions out there for what those terms mean, as home cooks, we all mean something totally different. Like if I just write bring your water to a simmer in a cookbook, yours might be at a rolling boil and it does mess with the times. Whereas steaming is like sort of more of a contained operation. Even though if you did put a lot of eggs into the steamer basket, you're probably going to dip the temperature more. If it's just one egg, it's pretty repeatable, I would think. Yeah. I guess the only thing I do feel passionately about though, Hearing you discuss this is ice bath slash, peeling under the ice water or under running cold water.
- [26:49]
A
Yeah, agreed. You gotta have an ice bath and then. Yeah, I do the thing where you roll the egg a little bit to like.
- [26:55]
D
Yeah.
- [26:55]
A
Loosen it. Yeah.
- [26:57]
D
There's nothing like sliding your thumb like under the shell in the ice bath. Feeling like half of that thing just like pop off.
- [27:10]
A
It's the best. Just think of that sicko's meme.
- [27:13]
D
Like, yes. Yeah, that's mean.
- [27:15]
B
With litter.
- [27:16]
D
That's mean. With the hard boiled egg. With a hard boiled egg, peeling it in an ice bath. This is why I'm available at 8:30 at night on a Tuesday.
- [27:30]
A
So Rombauer Vineyards is sponsoring today's episode and honestly, I've been wanting to talk about them because they just released a fresh vintage of their Sauvignon blanc and it's quickly become my go to white wine as we head into the warmer months. It's refreshing and vibrant, exactly what you want when the sun is out. I've been having it with asparagus with orange and hazelnuts and I mean, it just works perfectly.
- [27:50]
D
And. Okay. If you're planning on firing up the grill soon, let me tell you about their Zinfandels. They just released their 2023 vintage and it's bold, juicy, and has real depth. The kind of wine that just belongs with good food and good company. Something like grilled marinated octopus with shaved fennel and white bean salad comes to mind. But it's so versatile.
- [28:10]
A
Head to rombauer.com joy and use code joypod. That's J O Y P O D all cap for 15% off. That's R O M B A U E R dot com joy and use code joypod at checkout.
- [28:25]
C
Must be 21 to enjoy.
- [28:28]
A
We could just like jam probably all night. But I did want to talk about your book Rudimentary question. How did Obsessed with the Best come to be? Like, what's the origin story?
- [28:39]
D
The origin story is before I was a writer, I worked on Wall street for a while. And it was in this sort of period of food media becoming psychotically cool. Do you remember this? Like at the Bon Appetit test kitchen, people were like celebrities. People were running around town being like, Alex Delaney went to Servos like it was such a thing. And I became enamored with it. And I'd grown up loving food, loving cooking, loving baking, being a primary source of pleasure for me and kind of creative joy, something that really brought our family together. So when I decided I wanted to leave and go into something creative and applied for a bunch of jobs. I gravitated toward food media and the first thing I got was job at Food52. And I think what I wasn't emotionally prepared for was going from this job where it had so much stability and security, like I could literally look around and know where it was going to be. 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. I would have health insurance, you know, save money, etc, a good salary, and I would have a pretty good idea of what my schedule and workload would be like. I went from that to a completely condensing, collapsing industry full of like panic and layoffs. And you know, I immediately was like, oh my God, what have I done? And so I remember at some point while I was there, I was like, I need to make myself indispensable somehow. I need to think of something really good. And it was the clickbait engagement era. It was sort of like the buzzfeed boom, you know, 100 things no one told you about chicken. That kind of e. And I went into the back end of the CMS of the food blog and I sorted from most comments to least because I wanted to see what our readers were engaging with. And one of the top stories I remember was something titled like how to cook bacon or whatever. And the commenters I remember were going wild in the comments, at least to me. Like, my impression was that they were just like throwing mud, like screaming at each other, you're wrong, the author's wrong. You could. You don't even know what bacon is. I think Peter was in there being like, meat is murder. You know, it was like everyone was in there just like freaking out and having all of these opinions. And I was like, wow. People really like to engage on the idea of the best way to do something and then to share their opinion and sometimes have these like really meaningful and sweet interactions with one another where they're actually learning. So I pitched a column which was basically a sort of more nascent junior version of what this book project turned out to be, where I would bench test a bunch of different ways to cook something. The first one was the absolute best way to cook bacon. Like total rage bait title, especially Bacon Porterhouse. This went on for a very long time, including when I left. I kept doing it freelance, but for this project specifically, when I decided to pick this back up as an exercise for the cookbook, I knew that I wanted to take it deeper, both in terms of reporting out methods. So I traveled all over the country and all over the world for things like, like learning how to make actually chewy fresh pasta at home. I traveled throughout Tuscany and Emilia Romana and even to Osaka so I could learn how to knead udon with my feet for meatballs. I learned. I went throughout Rome to learn the secrets and, you know, Tsukune in Tokyo. So a lot of research went into it. So I could, like, not only use cookbooks and reference texts and Internet information, but also kind of people's secrets and tricks and instruction and word of mouth stuff. And then I also wanted to kind of zoom out and explore through reported essays, which are scattered throughout the book, why we have what I think is a human reflex to want to know what the best is and bite about it.
- [32:14]
A
I love the introduction to your book because I'll be really honest. I think when I first saw it was your series for Food52 coming out, I got super annoyed right away. My first reaction was to be super annoyed because as like, I'm like, this is clickbait. But of course, like, as a food editor, that's like kind of our bread and butter. Like, we gotta get people to click on the things, otherwise we have no job, we have no money. So that is the struggle. But I hate it. I was like, oh, I don't like this. But then reading your introduction, the first sentence in your introduction says, there is no such thing as the best. And I was like, okay, I'm listening. I will read this whole introduction. And it's actually really great, actually. Of course it's great. It's a really great introduction. It's a really great book.
- [32:59]
D
Donated.
- [33:01]
A
But could you. You talk about how, like, I feel like in some ways what you're getting at in this book is that it's like, not the destination. There is no such thing as a best recipe for anything. It's about the journey. So, like, did you come away from this project with any, like, overarching insights, like working towards your best recipes? Like, is there anything in the process part of it that you think stands out to you as something that you're going to take forward into your next project or into your life? Like, I'm asking for the giant insight here.
- [33:30]
D
Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is something I hope can apply to my readers as well, or anyone who just loves food, cooking, baking, eating. Which is, I think, the most important part of engaging with food, I mean, outside of like a survival context, is identifying what brings you pleasure. Right. Whether that's the process, the method, the steps, the creation, or whether it's the eating or Both I think for me this project was really helpful in crystallizing exactly what I want and like. And of course that's a moving target if I did these same. In fact, since the book has come out, I already am like, you know what, I feel differently about X, Y and Z. But it's like a snapshot moment in time of these very distinct and specific pleasures I was seeking. And then kind of a road map to get there or notes on other things I tested in case you're looking for a roadmap to a different destination. But yes, I agree with you. It's very much about the process and just engaging with yourself and what you're trying to get out of a meal or a dish.
- [34:40]
A
And I like that in the book you're really clear about when you talk about the best chocolate chip cookie, it's like, this is what I'm looking for from a chocolate chip cookie. This is what I'm trying to achieve specifically. So you might look at that and say, oh, that's not really the kind of cookie I love. So maybe be to me it wouldn't be the best. But like you're very open about what you are going for, right.
- [35:00]
D
In some ways I'm sharing just a piece of myself and my brain and my preferences with the reader and saying like, it's okay if that's not for you, but you know, it is also a commercial project and it's something I want to be really useful to people. So I tried to navigate that a little bit by offering different versions of things. So each. But each chapter after the bench testing and the findings has like three to six recipes and they sometimes solve for very different problems. So that chocolate chip cookie section or chocolate chunk cookie section, I do have my mother recipe which is called like overachiever extra brown butter bakery worthy chocolate chunk cookies or something. And those are labor intensive and they combine 10 to 15 different tricks and tips I picked up from superstar expert bakers and pastry chefs and cookies I've loved along the way. That's my version of all the boys I've loved. But I'm also aware that sometimes when you're craving a chocolate chunk cookie, you want it yesterday. So the next recipe in that section is for those malted cookie dough bars which come together in like, I think it's like 10 to 15 minutes of active work. Bake them, go. There's no resting the dough. There's no, you don't even have to shape them. You like slap it into a pan, bake it off and move on with your life. And I actually think those recipes are equally good and equally delicious and equally worthwhile. So it's part of what I mean in trying to figure out what exactly brings you pleasure and that changing moment to moment. Sometimes what brings me pleasure is a big baking project and making a tangzhong and using buckwheat flour and brisking the dough and comparing that rest to do to the less rested dough and being like, this is so crazy how dough hydrates and the flavor changes. And sometimes what brings me pleasure is just going like, yes, cookie dough bar now.
- [36:51]
A
Yeah, exactly. I do feel like chocolate chip cookies are kind of the best example maybe of a recipe where you change one tiny variable and you get wildly different results. It's really fascinating to me.
- [37:07]
D
It's also fascinating to think some of those are just sort of subtle visual things and some of them really are impactful. Impactful. And there's a whole range. I don't know if you've ever played around with egg whites and yolks and cookies. I'm not sure I did that for this book, but I've done it in the past. I think maybe I did a little for this book, but I've done a whole thing in the past with chocolate chunk cookies and sugar cookies. Even where I'll go like, just egg white, just egg yolk, a mix, or I'll like, titrate the ratio. And that's a really funny one because you would not think it would have the impact. It does. Like, an all egg yolk cookie is crazy.
- [37:42]
A
What is that like in a sugar cookie?
- [37:45]
D
It's like super rich and denser and it doesn't spread as much and it doesn't really get egg whites make things crispy. Like, it gives you that distinctive cookie edge. So it's more like almost like a cookie, like, mound. That's rich. But it does. My memory is that there is sort of like a shell on the outside, but it's not crunchy. It's almost like skin.
- [38:08]
A
Okay. And it has like a more like a fudgier texture. Like not crispy.
- [38:13]
D
Yeah. But I remember being surprised. And I haven't done this for years. So I would need to retest this to speak with much authority on it. I remember being surprised. It wasn't what I thought in terms of, like, you'd think something, you know, just rich egg yolk would give you this, like, super custardy under baked. But now you kind of need the whole egg to get that cookie texture. It gives you something that's like Almost not. Not quite cookie like.
- [38:39]
A
Okay, I'm curious. I'm gonna look more into this. More research is needed. Someone must go down into the mine. What did you. How did you decide on the recipe lineup for this book?
- [38:53]
D
I wanted to start with basics, things that people fight about on the Internet or in person. Like this quote I read from the Joy of Cooking about eggs. You know, what are these topics we can't agree on? I did include a few slightly more niche things like flourless chocolate cake latkes, stuff like that. But largely it's, you know, cookies, yellow cake frostings. My thought was, I think it like providing kind of the building blocks for these fundamental recipes that then you can go off and riff and do a million things with. Like, my biscuit recipe that I land on can be just biscuits that you have as biscuits for breakfast. It can be the biscuit part of a sandwich. It can be the top of a cobbler. You could flavor it in all of these interesting ways, and it could be its own dessert or almost a scone like thing. So trying to give you sort of like a skeleton key to the city.
- [39:46]
A
Nice. I love that idea. Is there one recipe that you would recommend any people starting with, like, is there one recipe that you think seals the deal?
- [39:54]
D
Oh, the biscuits are so good. The vodka sauce is a big crowd pleaser. What else? Those malted cookie dough bars are my husband's favorite. He always says I should talk about them more. Although this is like the 17th time I've mentioned them.
- [40:11]
A
I mean, now I want to make them. So congratulations, I guess.
- [40:15]
B
Thank you so much.
- [40:16]
D
For a more advanced baker, I really love doing my French ish buttercream with. With brown butter and adding cocoa powder and malted milk powder. I think that is like a criminally underused flavor combo in buttercream. Gosh. And then there's some fun, weird stuff. Oh, the tomato butter braised cabbage. That has a crazy payout for being a very humble collection of basically just like a head of cabbage, a tube of tomato paste, some ginger, some water.
- [40:45]
A
Heck, yeah.
- [40:46]
D
Some weird stuff with carrots. There's a whole section on broccoli stems. So if you're looking for. For recipes that you feel like you're not going to get elsewhere, maybe try my creamed broccoli stem.
- [40:57]
A
Okay.
- [40:58]
B
Broccoli stems are so criminally underrated. I think they're so good.
- [41:01]
A
Yeah, they're great.
- [41:02]
D
I agree. I argue they're better than the fl. Floret. I don't know how to say that word. I just realized how do you say it?
- [41:08]
A
Yeah, it's floret.
- [41:10]
D
Funny.
- [41:10]
A
I like fl.
- [41:13]
D
I'm gonna name my daughter that. I love broccoli stems. I think they're underrated. Oh, and also the whipped cream chapter. I would say start there because. Because that's an example of a chapter where I'm giving you a whole range of projects. Basically everything from like five minute dessert mousses that are basically just flavored whipped creams with spreads or ganaches or jams in the middle that make them a full dessert through teaching you how to use whipped cream as a leavener and corn muffins.
- [41:39]
A
Oh, cool. Yeah, I like that. And I feel like the payoff could be really satisfying with that chapter too. What recipe took you the most test tests to get right?
- [41:47]
D
Well, if you're looking at it as total labor and time, I would say either the actually chewy fresh pasta or the triple secret meatballs. Both of those took several weeks of travel in addition to the bench testing that I then came home and did to adapt what I learned into the recipes and were the furthest afield, like Italy and Japan biscuits I travel down to Alabama for. I think pasta would be the answer though, also because for some of these tests, you can break them down like geometrically, right? Into like little units. Or you're saying, oh, I'll make one batch of cookie dough, but I can use it for six tests by changing out this, this and this, or baking it at different temperatures or resting it differently. For the pasta dough, I had to basically make every dough every time, even if it was just like a half or a quarter batch. Right. But that's not, not the only sort of like synergies with doughs there would be. I was testing, I think at one point, air curing the pasta and freezing it versus not, you know, things like that. So those were synergies, but in terms of all the hydration ratios. And I have egg pasta dough and water pasta dough in there. So there were some nights I remember going to bed, I'm forgetting that I had done that that day. This has been like, I have to go to the hospital. Something's really wrong with my arms. To my husband. And he'd be like, what do you mean? And I'd be like, I. I don't know if something's really bad's happening. I don't know if I'm having like a medical emergency. My arms hurt so bad. Just like crazy bad out of nowhere. I can't describe it. Like an all over ache. And then I'D be like, oh,
- [43:26]
A
That'll do it. That'll do it.
- [43:28]
D
Turns out, turned me, like, really ripped. Like, is he ripped? But it didn't. It didn't work.
- [43:34]
B
Yeah, Mr. Clean is real.
- [43:35]
A
Mr. Clean is real. Confirmed.
- [43:38]
D
Hot.
- [43:39]
A
Totally. All right, so every week we answer a caller question, and this week we're talking about old joy recipes. Dirk, can you please read the question?
- [43:49]
C
Hi, this is Pat from Massachusetts. The recipes I bought Joy of cooking for 40 years ago were strawberry fruit punch and marshmallows. I gifted my copy to newlyweds. Are those recipes in the new edition? I love your podcast. Thanks.
- [44:03]
A
Thanks for that question. I love that. So you probably have the 1975 edition, I'm guessing. So we have marshmallows still. We actually cut the strawberry fruit punch the last time around because we decided we needed to narrow it down to four non alcoholic punch recipes. And they're all like fruit punch. They're all kind of like variations on similar themes. But I was taking a look at the marshmallow recipe in particular, and the recipe's functionally the same as it was the in the 70s. We did add more detail in the instructions because a lot of those old recipes, they work fine. You just already have to know things about cooking, and we kind of assume less knowledge now. So we beefed up the instructions and tweaked a few small little things. The major thing we did with marshmallows was we added some fun stuff. So now there's a salted caramel marshmallow variation on the. The regular one. And there's also a whole little section on flavoring marshmallows. So, like, marshmallows are so fun because you can kind of flavor them any way you can dream up. And it's actually really easy. So we've got like, chocolate fruit flavored marshmallow honey, and rose water marshmallows. Those are delicious.
- [45:09]
B
Really good.
- [45:10]
A
Maple marshmallows, coconut chocolate dip, mint honey, saffron, like, all these different fun ideas. And you can kind of get a feel for like, okay, this is if I want to flavor this, this is how I add the flavoring, and this is when I add it. But the recipe itself is just super fun to make. And if you've never made marshmallows, it's actually gonna be our recipe of the week teaser. But it's super easy, super satisfying because it just feels like magic. Like when it comes together, you're like, oh, my God, I just made a marshmallow. That's so cool. Yeah, that's the same the punch situation. So I looked back at this recipe and that strawberry fruit punch is pretty like, it's pretty standard, but it has optional sliced banana in it. And I just don't know how I feel. I don't think I feel good. Good things about sliced banana floating in my punch, I'll be honest.
- [45:56]
B
You like the texture would get weird.
- [45:57]
A
I think the texture might be a little weird. It's optional, so just don't add it. Or maybe add it. Maybe it's. Maybe it's amazing. I have no idea. But we did retest all of our fruit punch recipes the last time around and that one just didn't quite make the cut. But maybe we should try it again. I don't know. I'm also not up on my. I think of them as baby shower punches because when I was growing up up, like nobody drank. No one in our like family drank. And you know, we. My family's religious and no one drank. So like every baby shower and every wedding like bridal shower would have these non alcoholic punches that had like sherbet floating in them and you know, like tons of ginger ale. Are you familiar with this kind of punch, Ella?
- [46:41]
D
Hell yeah.
- [46:42]
A
Yeah.
- [46:43]
D
And you were getting me going. Like I see turning things are like really big for me right now. I will say a sort of life shortcut hack. Is it a hack? Tell me that I've stumbled upon recently is I feel like you can mix jam and sparkling water, Jam, lemonade, sparkling water, jam, whatever juice you have, sparkling water, fresh lemon juice, water, etc. And you are like 90% of the way to punch. Like hit it with a garish molded ice or just regular ice and you're there, baby. Yeah.
- [47:16]
A
Like a single serving punch.
- [47:18]
D
Oh, or a bigger serving.
- [47:20]
A
Yeah, or a bigger serving.
- [47:22]
D
Why? Why does it have to be single? Maybe I'm having a party and I'm making a jam punch.
- [47:27]
A
True. Yeah. I like that idea though because it's more concentrated too.
- [47:31]
D
I love those ice molds though. And you're making me think of. For some reason my mom and I got really into one year like 10 years ago. If you don't have ice molds, like you don't have those silicon molds that you can fill with ice and berries and whatever you want to make a baby shower punch or Christmas punch, you can use an empty milk carton or orange juice carton and mold like a more rectangular one. Have you ever done this?
- [47:55]
A
I've never done it in like a milk carton.
- [47:58]
D
It was actually a trend for A while or was it a trend? Or is this something my mother and I discovered in, like the darkest recesses of the Internet craft space? To do, you would put like a bottle of vodka or alcohol in the center of the. The empty carton. Like you cut off the top, wash it out, put a bottle of alcohol and then fill it with water or whatever liquid around the bottle and stick in whatever stuff you're using as decor, like plants or fruit or edible stuff, and then freeze it like that and peel off the carton.
- [48:30]
A
Okay.
- [48:31]
D
And it creates this, like, festive decorated ice block around the bottle.
- [48:36]
A
Oh, okay. I. I'm. I have not ever heard of this either, but I love it. I love it.
- [48:41]
D
It's very. In our household, I didn't. You haven't done it since?
- [48:45]
A
It feels like Martha Stewart gone wild, you know?
- [48:49]
D
Yeah. I guess you could do it with a bottle of anything, though, to be true. Like a Diet Coke.
- [48:56]
A
Why not?
- [48:58]
D
I also. Why?
- [49:00]
A
Yeah, also why? Why? Why not? Yeah. I need to do some reading on, like, what is up in. In non alcoholic punch world, because I feel like now, you know, n A drinks are so big and every, you know, like every restaurant I feel like has now an NA drink menu. Like, what's going on in punch world? I just have no idea.
- [49:20]
D
Fat washing NA punches.
- [49:22]
A
I mean, we gotta find out.
- [49:24]
D
Let's call a friend.
- [49:26]
A
Yeah, let's call a friend. Is that all I have to say about punch? I was thinking about ice molds because I was. You know, the problem with ice molds is like, dilution. Like, over time the punch just gets really watery. So I was thinking, like, why not just freeze part of the punch in a mold and then throw it in to the punch bowl?
- [49:45]
D
You're hitting on a very specific pregnancy fantasy I've been running through my mind every day and have yet to act on, which is I've been really into cereal with super cold milk really early in the morning or really late at night. And I've been fantasizing about. I have these, like, silicone butter molds that I want to fill with milk freeze. Because a lot of people talk about ice cubes and milk, but I'm like, why would you dilute it like that and have little milk cubes floating around in my cereal? I agree, though. Perfect for punch.
- [50:15]
A
Yeah. I like this idea. You should definitely do that. It's so easy.
- [50:19]
D
I know, but I have to save something. Like, I have a few months, you know? Yeah.
- [50:24]
A
I feel like you're gonna think of other stuff. You're gonna Think of more stuff.
- [50:27]
D
I don't know. It's a crazy time. I'm sleeping a lot.
- [50:32]
A
Get that sleep.
- [50:36]
C
Oh, hello. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about an easy way to enhance your meals. Whether they are a healthy vegan grain bowl or that late night snack we'll pretend didn't happen the next day. And that easy way is Marshall's haute sauce. For 15 years, chef and cookbook author Sarah Marshall has been hand making and bottling these delicious sauces. She works directly with local farmers and highlights the lovely flavors of fresh seasonal produce. They're gluten free. There are no additives, dyes, waxes or binders. And they have mouth watering combinations like serrano ginger, lemongrass or habanero carrot curry or even whiskey smoked ghost, which was featured on Hot Ones. So head on over to marshallshot sauce.com that's Marshalls H A U T E S A-U C E.com and see all the available sauces and spice blends. Oh, that's right. Sara's created spice packets by dehydrating and freeze drying actual produce so you can impart flavor to your food with more vegetables. But that's the story for another day. Find all of these delicious creations@marshallshotsauce.com and enter Haute Joy. That's one word, capital H A U T E capital JJ O Y one word at checkout for 20 off. That's haute joy at checkout for 20 off. And now back to the show.
- [51:58]
A
All right, this week's Joy Scouts recipe is marshmallows on page 868. I would say the only downside to this recipe is that you do need a stand mixer. I maybe there's a world in which a hand mixer would work. I think it could, but you would be standing there for a very long time. So definitely recommend a stand mixer. And then my biggest tip is so you have to make a sugar syrup. Don't be scared. It's really not a big deal. You make a sugar syrup and then you pour it slowly into the stand mixer while it's running. You want to avoid hitting the whisk with your syrup, so you might need to transfer it to like a Pyrex with a spout or something so you can control the pour a little bit better, but that's it. Otherwise just go crazy with the flavors. Like that's where it's at. And then I find that these homemade marshmallows melt a lot better. They're like creamier and they just taste nicer. And they have a nicer texture to eat plain. So, yeah, I'm excited to see what people do. Shannon, you have to make this one. You have a stand mixer, right?
- [52:58]
B
I have a stand mixer and also my sister and nephew are coming down from Seattle and so we could make marshmallows on Saturday and then build a fire and do s'. Mores.
- [53:06]
A
That's perfect.
- [53:07]
B
This is giving me a great idea of some plans. Thank you.
- [53:11]
D
I'm flying in.
- [53:13]
B
Let's have a s' more party.
- [53:14]
D
We'll pull up a chair, say less.
- [53:16]
A
If you have a cooking question or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We would love to hear from you, Dirk. Can you please read or play next week's caller question?
- [53:29]
C
Hi, guys. I heard you mention you are currently working on the new edition. So exciting. Please bring back the hot blueberry sauce but include a mixed berry alternative. My family loves it over waffles with whipped cream. Keep doing good work, love the podcast and look forward to the new edition.
- [53:44]
A
Awesome. I actually think we still have that recipe. I'm pretty sure it's still in there. Maybe it's called something else, but we will investigate that and get back to you. Okay, what is everyone cooking or eating this coming week?
- [53:56]
B
Well, I guess I'm gonna be cooking and eating marshmallows on Saturday with my nephew Bernie. He's going to be so excited. He loves cooking. Cooking from the joy of cooking. By the way, I have so many.
- [54:05]
A
Awesome.
- [54:05]
B
He does family dinner once a week and he always has the book out. It's very sweet. And we have asparagus in the garden that's popping up finally. And it just makes me laugh every time I go out there to see these asparagus socks. We didn't use them last year as much as we should have, but this year we're going to be using it more. So it's officially asparagus time in the house.
- [54:25]
A
Just brag about it. I mean, asparagus, is that such a nice thing to have when you move into a house?
- [54:30]
B
Yeah. No, it was really nice. And again, it's just. It feels like I'm in a Dr. Seuss book or something. Every time I go out into the garden bed that it grows in, it's just fun.
- [54:38]
A
It looks like somebody just sticks them in the dirt.
- [54:40]
B
It's so weird, so strange.
- [54:42]
A
What about you, Ella?
- [54:43]
D
Oh, God. Every day is a beautiful mystery. Definitely more cereal and tortilla chips. I'm trying to think what's good right now at the farmer's market. It's actually been a funny time because our weather's been so variable that the farmer's market I go to, which is usually incredibly bountiful, I go to the Union Square one, so it's pretty huge. Has been very hit or miss, like, slim pickings in terms of produce. Like, there's some, you know, hearty cabbage and stuff still from the winter, but there's not as much. There's. There are ramps, but there's not as much sort of like spring stuff as I would expect to see yet. I will probably hit that and see where that brings me on Monday. I like to go a few times a week. And otherwise I'm gonna keep eating froyo. I've been really into getting salmon sashimi bowls from the Hashi market on the way home from the farmer's market. And Santo Taco, which is a great taco place I love in my neighborhood, has a limited edition tuna tostada. So I might get into that.
- [55:43]
A
Yum. I love a tostada.
- [55:45]
D
I do, too.
- [55:45]
A
I saw somebody post something about how our aspects coming back, like, oh, my gosh. I saw that post and I was like, no. But then I was chatting with some folks in, you know, replies and. Or messages, and I was like, you know, actually a tomato aspic, when it's good, when it's made with good tomatoes and it's really flavorful, that's like, fine to me. So that started. I started thinking about Bloody Mary jello shots.
- [56:11]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [56:12]
A
So now I think I have to make Bloody Mary jello shots. And I will. I'll share. So that's my new project. But it was funny because when that story was going around, I think it was like food and wine or something. John's dad, Ethan, was visiting, and he lived through the. The original aspic craze of the mid century. And we were asking him about it, like, did you eat these regularly? And he was saying, like, his mom would make them when she was having like a book club or her ladies club meeting. It was like a luncheon thing. And I was like, well, did you know? Did you. You like them? And he was like, they were wretched. That was the word he used.
- [56:45]
D
So that's haunting.
- [56:47]
A
It's haunting. Hearing it from him, I'm like, okay, we don't need to relive this moment. We can just have the Bloody Mary jello shots.
- [56:54]
B
There's probably some other fun ways to use it.
- [56:56]
D
Sure.
- [56:57]
B
Maybe not, you know, cherries and salmon. Yeah, you know, yeah.
- [57:02]
A
Like the lime jello with the mayonnaise. I don't know. There's a lot of weird stuff going on, so I think it's fine if we leave certain things in the past, but. So there's that. And then I also have in mind something I can't stop thinking about is making a baked potato, but opening it up and putting Japanese curry in it or on it over it. So that's probably gonna happen too.
- [57:23]
D
Oh, it's double flying out. I also feel like you could do, like, a beef consummate or a lamb consume jello shot.
- [57:31]
A
Yes. Yeah. If you did a very good consummate, that would be great. I mean, what would be wrong with that?
- [57:37]
D
I didn't see this article you're talking about, but I did write about this earlier this year about how New York is in this wave of kind of savory jelly resurgence. So we've had some great ones here. Just very sort of interesting flavor combinations, and they're being used in sort of composed dishes in ways that make you not think of the word wretched.
- [57:58]
A
Yeah, I think that's the key is, like, I'm imagining just a slice of or like a slab of this, you know, gelatinous thing with peas and mayonnaise on top. And that just doesn't do anything for me. It makes me feel cold, you know, But I could see it. I could see, like, an aspic as a component of another dish.
- [58:17]
D
It's weird, though, because we are in this really sculptural food moment. Like, I feel like it's been cycling in and out every few years because people are just so into the sort of Instagram equality as well.
- [58:28]
A
Have you had any of the solid Wiggles Jello shots?
- [58:31]
D
I did another story a few years ago that those were mentioned in, and I tried some at that point, and I remember they were really delicious. I mean, I'm all for jello and jelly. Like, especially a sweet one. You can't go. I mean, you could go wrong, but they're pretty delicious.
- [58:50]
A
Yeah.
- [58:51]
D
Like a coffee jello. That's excellent. I make that sometimes. I have a lot of gelatin in my pantry.
- [58:58]
A
Coffee jello with whipped cream sounds great.
- [59:00]
D
Yeah, I've done that. You know, or like, some shaved ice in there.
- [59:05]
A
Yeah. Okay, we'll continue this conversation.
- [59:07]
D
We need a whole lot.
- [59:08]
A
I know. We need a whole episode.
- [59:10]
D
Just text me when we wrap.
- [59:12]
A
Okay, Cool. And, Ella, before we wrap, where can listeners follow you?
- [59:17]
D
You can follow me on Instagram and Tick tock at E Q U I T T N E R E Quittner
- [59:23]
A
Perfect and we will put a link to that in the show notes thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking Podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram @the joyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we'll talk about hot blueberry sauce joy recipes. And don't forget to make this week's recipe marshmallows on page 800. Call in with questions, hopes, history or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.
- [60:00]
B
And we couldn't do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation Production House. Thank you to Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Dirk Marshall, our producer.
- [60:09]
A
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- [60:30]
D
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A
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- [60:34]
D
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- [60:36]
A
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- [60:41]
D
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- [60:43]
A
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