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The Joy of Cooking Podcast
Introduction to The Joy of Cooking Podcast: Inspired By Eggplant
00:40:48
Episode 1: Meet The Joy of Cooking Podcast hosts in our first episode. Self-published by Irma Rombauer in 1931, the Joy of Cooking is more than a cookbook; it's an American culinary institution. The Rombauer-Becker family’s reliable recipes have guided generations of home cooks for almost a century. Today, the book’s legacy lives on through Irma’s great-grandson, John Becker, and his wife, Megan Scott. Based in Portland, Oregon, they are the fourth-generation stewards of this beloved classic, having authored its latest edition. As they write the next chapter of the Joy of Cooking and launch The Joy of Cooking Podcast, John and Megan aim to inspire and nourish listeners with every conversation. Each week, they set the table with their co-host and friend Shannon Larson and their revolving guests—home cooks, cookbook authors, food entrepreneurs, and chefs—to discuss Joy recipes and stories, kitchen victories and miseries, and most importantly, what they are all cooking and eating.
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- [00:00]
Shannon Larson
Sa.
- [00:39]
Megan Scott
Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan and celery enthusiastic.
- [00:59]
Shannon Larson
I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night, but I make a mean cherry pie.
- [01:10]
Jon Becker
I'm Jon Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. I'm our in house breakfast expert and do most of the dishes.
- [01:21]
Shannon Larson
Welcome to the podcast, Shannon. Thank you so much for agreeing to be our co host because I feel like when John and I were talking about doing a podcast, we were excited to do it, but also we're both really introverted and quiet people and we needed a third person to kind of keep things going and keep the mood up. And I feel like you're gonna be that person, so I hope you're ready for that.
- [01:47]
Megan Scott
Well, I'm very honored that you asked me. I also am glad that you aren't sick of me constantly asking you what I should make for dinner, because that's just something I do already and this is a chance for me to get more inspiration from you all. So thanks. I'm so looking forward to it.
- [02:02]
Shannon Larson
What have you been up to this week? What have you been cooking?
- [02:05]
Megan Scott
Well, speaking of asking you what I should cook for dinner, I cooked ratatouille for friends that I had over the other night. I hosted four people and we wanted to make sure it was vegetarian friendly. And ratatouille is one of my favorite dishes. But for some reason my brain just wasn't going there. And so asking you all, what should I make? And that was the first thing you said and I was like, well, duh, of course, that's a great answer. But I'm just trying to enjoy all of the summer bounty right now. I've been eating probably 12 tomatoes a day is what it feels like right now. Just trying to get it all in. And a ton of cucumbers because you.
- [02:45]
Shannon Larson
Guys are growing cucumbers, right?
- [02:47]
Megan Scott
Yeah, and they're really large cucumbers, but they're really, really tasty, so we've been enjoying that. I actually don't know what kind they are because they were planted by the previous owners of the house we just bought.
- [02:56]
Shannon Larson
But what a gift.
- [02:57]
Megan Scott
I should thank them. Yeah, I should send a thank you note.
- [02:59]
Jon Becker
Yeah. You guys really lucked out with that garden.
- [03:01]
Megan Scott
Yeah, very lucky.
- [03:02]
Shannon Larson
No, this is like the best time of year for cooking and for eating because all the summer things are still happening. All the peppers and the tomatoes and basil. But we're starting to get fall, fall vegetables. And also the weather is kind of in this nice in between place where you can go super cozy or still do summer things.
- [03:20]
Megan Scott
Yeah, fall food is actually my favorite. But this little. These couple of weeks when it's in between is really fun because you get to start making like soup soup, but you still have those yummy tomatoes, so it's great. What all have you guys been up to and cooking this week?
- [03:36]
Jon Becker
I mean, Megan's parents recently visited and also there was a celebration. It was Megan's birthday and so, yeah. Did a celebratory spaghetti and meatball feast. A Mississippi mud cake.
- [03:52]
Shannon Larson
My favorite cake in the world.
- [03:54]
Jon Becker
It's a standing tradition now. I've made it. I don't know.
- [03:58]
Megan Scott
Can I ask what a Mississippi mud cake is?
- [04:00]
Shannon Larson
Well, this Mississippi mud cake is kind of non traditional. It's from the baked Cookbook, which is Baked is a bakery in Brooklyn. I believe they still exist. And they have a few different cookbooks and they all have amazing, like, celebration cakes in them. And I've made a bunch of them, but John always makes the Mississippi mud one for my birthday because it's amazing. So you should talk about it.
- [04:23]
Jon Becker
Yeah, no, it's an oreo crust. And then you have a flourless chocolate cake that's baked into the oreo crust after that's been cooled down, and then you cool that down. And meanwhile you are making and then chilling a really rich chocolate pudding. Cornstarch pudding. And then. Yeah, then it gets assembled and then whipped cream on top.
- [04:48]
Megan Scott
So that sounds so good.
- [04:50]
Shannon Larson
It's like chocolate on chocolate on chocolate. It's good. Yeah.
- [04:53]
Jon Becker
Each component is simple, but yeah, it takes a while to put them all together. And I managed to do both the cake and all of the dinner, like, from scratch in like.
- [05:02]
Shannon Larson
You did such a good job, like.
- [05:04]
Jon Becker
Six hours, I think.
- [05:05]
Megan Scott
Oh, nice.
- [05:05]
Jon Becker
Yeah, it was good.
- [05:07]
Megan Scott
Sounds amazing.
- [05:07]
Shannon Larson
Five stars and happy birthday. Thank you. So I thought for this first episode that we would just talk a little bit about how each of us came to joy of cooking and then how we met each other. Because I feel like everyone's joy origin story is really fun and interesting and I love hearing them So I guess, Shannon, would you mind going first and just talk about how you came to Joy of Cooking?
- [05:34]
Megan Scott
I feel like my Joy of Cooking origin story is probably similar to a lot of people's Joy of Cooking origin stories, where I remember the cookbook in my grandmother's kitchen, and it was just kind of the book that was always there and the one that she would always go to. So I actually. My mom has her copy and I have already claimed that for when my mom is ready to let it go, but I already have the same copy. But it's just like I want my grandma's. It's very personal to me, and I think a lot of people probably feel the same way about their family Joy of Cookings. So that was my first introduction to the cookbook and I had a copy in college that I used and that's when I actually started cooking for myself when I got out of the dorms, of course. And it's just kind of been this thing in my life and I can't imagine my life without it. It's just my go to cookbook and has been even before I knew you two.
- [06:34]
Shannon Larson
Nice. Do you remember what the COVID looked like of your grandmother's edition? It had gold. It had gold and white. Probably the 70s.
- [06:41]
Megan Scott
Yeah, I think that's the one. I'm sure she had one before that too, but I think that was probably the one she used when she was really raising my mom and her brothers, because I think that's what the go to was for her.
- [06:52]
Shannon Larson
Awesome. Yeah, I love that.
- [06:55]
Jon Becker
Yeah. Know. Best selling edition. Good choice.
- [06:57]
Megan Scott
Yeah.
- [06:58]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. I came to the Joy of Cooking. I actually didn't grow up with Joy of Cooking. My mom is a Southern Living person. She has every. Or she did have. I don't know if she still does, but she had every single Southern Living Year Cookbook because they put out one every single year. I think it just has all the. All the recipes that were in the magazines throughout the year collected in one volume. But she was collecting each year's book. So that was what we grew up eating was like Southern Living recipes. But when I went to college and started like the summer after my freshman year, I started cooking more for myself and realized I just didn't really know how to cook much of anything on my own. And so I went to Barnes and Noble and I was like on the hunt for a cookbook. And I saw Joy of Cooking and I knew that it was supposed to be this cookbook you could buy that would kind of teach you how to do Anything. And so I bought it. That was my first cookbook that I ever bought for myself. And I learned how to roast a chicken. Like, I remember roasting my first chicken because it seemed so scary. Like, I really didn't want to mess it up because it's this big piece of meat and it's kind of intimidating. And Joy of Cooking helps me cook that. And I remember it being good. I don't know how I would judge it now, but I thought it was good at the time. I learned how to make pies. I learned how to make, like, apple butter. So many things. And then eventually I met John. But we'll get to that later. First, I want to hear from John about what it was like growing up with Joy of Cooking. Being in your family growing up with.
- [08:33]
Jon Becker
The Joy of Cooking seemed, you know, somewhat normal. I mean, you know, I had nothing else to compare it to when I was with my mother. It was just a presence on the shelf. She would pull it down and cook from it every now and then. But it wasn't like she would sometimes reminisce about Marian.
- [08:49]
Shannon Larson
And that's your grandmother?
- [08:50]
Jon Becker
Sorry. Yes, that's my grandmother who. Well, she was involved since the very beginning, but she was responsible primarily for the 1963 and 1975 editions. But my mother, obviously, she knew her well. And so, you know, I got to know Joy primarily, like, through her just sharing these, like, little moments that. That she had shared with Mary and. Yeah. So on the other hand, when I was with my father. Cause I would spend my summers with him. Yeah, there was a lot of activity going on all the time. There was an entire office in the home that had Marian's library of cookbooks. And there were at least two people in the office at any given moment. There was a copier. My dad had all of the.
- [09:38]
Shannon Larson
He had a personal copier.
- [09:39]
Jon Becker
He had a big old Xerox. And there were like, you know, Apple computers back when they were pretty expensive. And I feel like that part of it was always really impressive, but it was like kind of like a, you know, an office space experience of Joy of Cooking. My dad was like a really. He didn't take very, very good notes in the kitchen. So, you know, when. Whenever I saw him cooking, it was usually like kind of an off the cuff thing. And the Joy of Cooking was never around when he was actually, like, in the kitchen cooking.
- [10:13]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, that tracks my experience also of your dad cooking.
- [10:19]
Jon Becker
So, yeah, I didn't really get to become, like, intimately familiar with the book until college. My dorm room Actually had a kitchenette in it.
- [10:28]
Shannon Larson
Oh, fancy. Dang.
- [10:30]
Jon Becker
Yeah. Boston University had to buy up a lot of apartment buildings in order to find housing for people in the Back Bay. Yeah, I remember cooking out of the book for. For the first time then.
- [10:44]
Shannon Larson
And do you remember what you made?
- [10:46]
Jon Becker
It was like a lemon roast chicken meal for, like, I think I had maybe six people over, like, and it was a pretty small room. I mean, the kitchen was tiny. And, you know, it was like a combined kitchen and slash dining area. So, you know, it was. It was like a one bud kitchen. Yeah, it was a lemon, like, lemon marinated roast chicken. I think that this actually wasn't enjoy. It was like a. It was like my attempt to do a dish from the Montage restaurant in Portland. It was a, you know, called Old Mac. But, yeah, it was really basic.
- [11:24]
Shannon Larson
It was a basic Mac and cheese.
- [11:26]
Jon Becker
It was like, it's more basic than your average Mac and cheese recipe.
- [11:30]
Megan Scott
Did you know how influential the Joy of Cooking was at that point, or was it just kind of, you know, ho hum to you?
- [11:37]
Jon Becker
Yeah, I mean, I had some idea of it, but, you know, my friends, their parents would have it, like, on their shelves. And, you know, before I went off to college, I, you know, the 1997 edition came out during my senior year in high school. And the IACP convention was in Portland that year. The International association of Culinary Professionals award ceremony was there at the Schnitzer. And so I actually did get to go to that. So, yeah, I had something.
- [12:10]
Shannon Larson
You met Julia Child there, right?
- [12:12]
Jon Becker
I wasn't going to say that.
- [12:14]
Megan Scott
Oh, my gosh.
- [12:15]
Shannon Larson
I'm sorry.
- [12:15]
Megan Scott
That's amazing.
- [12:17]
Jon Becker
Yeah, I got to meet her. She was very tall, and she told me to go to culinary school.
- [12:23]
Shannon Larson
Nice.
- [12:24]
Jon Becker
And that's pretty much all I can remember about that interaction. It probably wasn't much longer than that.
- [12:28]
Megan Scott
Well, that's amazing.
- [12:30]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, that's amazing. And that kind of leads nicely into how we met, because John and I met in Asheville, North Carolina. We both went to college there, and we didn't. We weren't going to school at the same time. He had already graduated. He was working at a coffee shop near downtown, and I was working at a bakery in a natural foods grocery store. One day at work, I was just talking with another coworker about Joy of Cooking and how much I loved it and what I was making out of it and how it was teaching me how to cook so many things. And he said something like, well, did you know that the guy whose family wrote Joy of Cooking works at that coffee shop over there. It was called the Drip a later. And I was. I thought he was kind of messing with me, but I wanted to just ask because I went there all the time. And so the next time I went to the coffee shop, I was ordering my drink, and I asked the barista, hey, do you know anything about this person whose family supposedly wrote the Joy of Cooking working here? And it happened to be John who was working, and he blushed, so. He turned so red.
- [13:37]
Megan Scott
So not surprising.
- [13:38]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, he blushed so much.
- [13:40]
Jon Becker
Turning red right now.
- [13:43]
Shannon Larson
And he was like, oh, that's. That's my family. Very. In such a very demure way, which I thought was charming. And I proceeded to awkwardly ask him out on a date because I thought that was just the coolest thing in the world. I did not.
- [13:58]
Jon Becker
I don't think that was the same. That wasn't the same interaction, though.
- [14:01]
Shannon Larson
It was. Was it? Yeah, because I was like, what do you do when you're not at work? And you said something about being in a book club, and then I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, do you want to hang out sometime? I def. Yeah, I think it was.
- [14:14]
Jon Becker
I didn't have much going on, and.
- [14:17]
Megan Scott
He was flattered, of course.
- [14:18]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. Well, it worked out. And then so I wanted to just talk about how we three met so that everyone knows how we met. But we moved to Portland in 2013, and I was just trying to meet people, which, as an adult is surprisingly hard because you mostly interact with people through your job or, you know, it was through school for a long time, so trying to meet new people in a new city. I can't even remember how I found out about Canning Club, but. But I found out about Canning Club and decided to start going. And I think I went. I went without John at first because you were working probably at the craft club.
- [14:59]
Jon Becker
I was being a stick in the mud.
- [15:00]
Shannon Larson
Or you. Yeah. Or you just didn't want to go. So I started going to Canning Club. Canning Club is, for a little bit of context, is just people bring, like, five jars of something to TR that they made to trade with other people who also made things. And I remember. I don't remember if I met you the first time I went, but I kind of clocked you as like, oh. I was like, she knows people. Like, she. She seems cool. We're going to hang out. And so I kind of weaseled my way into Canning Club and into Shannon's life.
- [15:29]
Megan Scott
Well, and I remember one time I was driving to Canning Club. It was also called the Portland Preservation Society. And you were waiting for a bus to get to one of the meetings and I pulled over and picked you up and drove you. And I think that was the, like, moment that we really, like, started the friendship. John wasn't around at that point. He was still being a stick in the mud with the one.
- [15:52]
Jon Becker
The stick in the mud that had the car.
- [15:53]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [15:56]
Megan Scott
Yeah. And from there, I mean, I feel like that's how I've met most of my adult friends. And it's been such a great community builder and also a great way for people to get their hands into the joy of cooking too, because a lot of recipe testers were for the newest edition were through that. And just a really solid group of people.
- [16:15]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. So I want to introduce our topic for the show today, which is eggplant. And the reason we chose eggplant was just because it was kind of the stand in. You know, when we were talking about starting this podcast, we would say something like, we can talk about anything on the podcast, like eggplant. And then it just became kind of a running joke. And so now we have to talk about eggplant.
- [16:38]
Megan Scott
It has to be the first episode.
- [16:39]
Shannon Larson
Yes, it has to be.
- [16:40]
Jon Becker
I became a stand in for the possibilities.
- [16:42]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, all the possibilities.
- [16:44]
Megan Scott
Well. And the misunderstanding of what I think is a delicious vegetable.
- [16:49]
Shannon Larson
Yes, Agreed.
- [16:50]
Megan Scott
Yeah.
- [16:51]
Shannon Larson
So each show we will taste something either that we made or bought or was sent to us. And since we're talking about eggplant, this week, I made some baba ganoush to share with the table. So baba ganoush is something we make all the time we make it, especially when we are going to a potluck or. Or canning club. I feel like I've made it for canning club multiple times because it's so easy. And it's also, it's vegan, it's gluten free, so everybody can usually eat it. And we kind of use this cheater shortcut method for making it. Where we buy jarred eggplant that's already been roasted. There's this really nice little shop in Montevillo, which is near where we both live, that has like, it's like a Lebanese market. And so they have all these different kinds of jarred, like eggplant and jarred peppers. But the roasted eggplant is just eggplant. I think there's some salt in there, but it's already kind of mashed up and perfectly cooked. So all you have to do is mix it in a bowl with some tahini, lemon Juice, garlic, salt, cumin, olive oil, and that's it.
- [18:05]
Jon Becker
Yeah. Baba ganoush is. Is easy no matter what. But, you know, roasting it, charring it, it takes time. Very little sacrifice when it comes to the quality by just going with this, you know?
- [18:17]
Shannon Larson
Yeah.
- [18:18]
Jon Becker
And it's not cheating.
- [18:19]
Shannon Larson
It's not cheating. It's just being smart.
- [18:21]
Megan Scott
You guys have also brought it on camping trips that we've gone on, and I feel like when you're. Well, first of all, when you're out in the middle of nowhere, everything tastes better. But this specifically, like, is over the top delicious. Whenever. Whenever I have it in the middle of nowhere. It's salty enough and makes you, like, drink more water too. It's a great camping food, in my opinion.
- [18:43]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. And it's not super perishable because it doesn't have any dairy in it. So I feel less sketched out by having, you know, having it in a cooler for a weekend or sitting on.
- [18:52]
Megan Scott
The picnic table for a couple of hours, which is usually what happens because we're all eating too much of it.
- [18:56]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. Yeah. You can get the jarred roasted eggplant at Mediterranean markets or Middle Eastern markets. Locally, we get it at a place called Lebouf, but it's pretty widely available. The brand. Brands vary. The one we bought today was Zerg, which seems German, so maybe European grocery stores, too, would have it, but there are different brands, and it's just a really nice thing to have in the pantry because then you're, like, five minutes away from making baba ganousha any moment.
- [19:25]
Megan Scott
I feel like it's a great option for those, like, last minute. Oh, no. We have people coming over. I need to throw something together. This is gonna take you no time. And it's a hit.
- [19:35]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, exactly.
- [19:36]
Megan Scott
Yeah.
- [19:37]
Jon Becker
I feel like the only time I've gotten better or smokier baba ganoush is if I actually fire up the grill to char the eggplant. And that's just. That is a whole thing.
- [19:48]
Shannon Larson
Yeah.
- [19:49]
Jon Becker
I've tried to make it more convenient by, you know, like, when I'm done grilling something. I've actually planned ahead before and had an eggplant to just throw on after I've. I've grilled. And then I just, you know, kind.
- [20:02]
Shannon Larson
Of just roast it in there.
- [20:03]
Jon Becker
Just roast it in there while the coals are still hot.
- [20:06]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. We usually don't have it together enough just to plan that much. Yeah.
- [20:10]
Megan Scott
I also think the other thing about baba ganoush that I like is that it's not just a Dip for, like, pita or crackers. I obviously really like celery, and I think it's really good on celery or carrots or roasted vegetables, even other roasted vegetables. So especially for people who don't eat gluten, I think there's a lot more use for it outside of just a traditional dip.
- [20:31]
Shannon Larson
Agreed. Let's talk about. Let's talk more about eggplant, since that's our topic.
- [20:35]
Megan Scott
Well, I really wish that we called them aubergines. Personally, I think it's a much more beautiful word. And I wonder if people would have less of, like, a eggplant if we called it something prettier, like a machine. I don't know. This is my husband talking right now. It took me a lot of convincing him that, like, eggplants are really delicious, because I think he grew up eating it just, like, breaded and fried. And so it didn't have any flavor and was just kind of mushy. I mean, it is mushy, but, like.
- [21:05]
Jon Becker
Well, it picks up a lot of oil, especially if you're just breading it and if it's on a battery. Seems like it absorbed the frying oil, like, pretty. Pretty, like, efficiently.
- [21:15]
Megan Scott
Yeah.
- [21:15]
Shannon Larson
I don't remember growing up eating it at all. I think probably my introduction to it was eggplant parmesan. Like most people, I didn't really understand how to cook it for a really long time, and so it intimidated me. And I also had some bad eggplant experiences where it was undercooked, and it kind of has that spongy texture if it's not cooked quite enough. Yeah, it is spongy, and that kind of put me off of it. My introduction to, like, learning how to cook eggplant in a way that it was like a light. Light bulb moment for me was from the Otto Linghi Cookbook Plenty. And it's a baked or roasted eggplant with a buttermilk yogurt sauce. But the cooking method is you. You cut the eggplant in half, and then you kind of score it with a little knife into, like, a crosshatch pattern. And then you. You, like, brush it with kind of a lot of olive oil. And I think that was kind of shocking to me because I was like, oh, you. You want a lot of oil for eggplant. But then I tried it. I, like, trusted the process and tried it. And the way it, like, turned the eggplant flesh into just almost, like, creamy. It was so good and so satisfying, and the texture was perfect. And I was like, oh, this is what eggplant can be like if you know how to cook it. And so after that, I feel like that kind of broke down the walls, and I was like, okay, eggplant. I'm cool with eggplant. We're good.
- [22:42]
Megan Scott
My grandmother, it was her favorite dish, she loved eggplant parmesan so much. So anytime we would go out to eat and there was eggplant parmesan on the menu, it was. That's what Bess was gonna order. And so, fortunately, I grew up eating decent eggplant parmesan and, like, respecting it. So thanks, Bess, for that. I just. I feel like there's good eggplant parmesan, there's really good eggplant Parmesan, and then there's not so good eggplant parmesan. So it also takes time, and I think sometimes that can be a little overwhelming to cook. Eggplant is. It is a little bit more on the time consuming end every, like, it takes a little bit more time in the oven to get it right. So that's why the jarred stuff is great and other options too. So.
- [23:24]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. And one of our favorite ways to cook it now that's a little less time intensive is it's actually a fuchsia Dunlop recipe from her book the Food of Sichuan. It's called Fish Fragrant fish. Flavored fish. Fragrant fish. Fragrant fish, Fragrant eggplant. And you use kind of the slender eggplants and cut them into batons. You quickly fry them. Well, actually, back up. You have to salt them first and let them drain for a little bit, like 30 minutes, I think. And kind of what that does is compacts the flesh so it doesn't absorb as much oil when it's being fried. And then you quickly fry it, like three minutes, I think, something like that. And then you make a sauce with the. The Szechuan chili bean paste and ginger and garlic, and I forget what else. It's pretty simple but delicious sauce. And then you add the fried eggplant back to the sauce to kind of coat it, and then add a little bit of, like a potato starch slurry to thicken it. So it's just like super. The texture of the eggplant is really silky. The sauce is, like, super flavorful. Not really. Not super spicy, but really flavorful and good.
- [24:31]
Jon Becker
I feel like we're always using cornstarch. I know that she switched over. I feel like between additions of food of Szechuan, from cornstarch to potato starch I'm sure there's a really good reason for it. She might even explain it.
- [24:45]
Shannon Larson
Well, someone I was talking to about this, too, because we never have potato starch around.
- [24:49]
Jon Becker
Right.
- [24:49]
Shannon Larson
So we just use cornstarch, but apparently it's a little less gloppy, so we should. We should try it. But you can use cornstarch. You just have to kind of drizzle it in and not go overboard with it.
- [25:01]
Megan Scott
And you have eggplant recipes in the Joy, obviously. The miso eggplant.
- [25:06]
Shannon Larson
The miso eggplant is so good. Yeah. That's one of our. I would. That's probably the recipe we make the most often, because it truly is very quick and easy. It's like four ingredients, I think.
- [25:20]
Jon Becker
Yeah. Very little prep. Four ingredients. And you can do it all in the time the broiler takes to preheat pretty much. And it doesn't take long to cook, so.
- [25:29]
Shannon Larson
And it's just the. The long, skinny eggplants that you cut in half, and you. You roast them at a pretty high heat until they're tender, flip them over, and you brush them with a mixture of miso, mirin, Sake.
- [25:43]
Jon Becker
I think so.
- [25:44]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. I think it's miso, mirin and sake. But we've also used, like, if I don't have sake, I will use a splash of white wine. Or sometimes if I don't have mirin, I'll just add a little bit of sugar to the mixture. Just something. Something kind of a little bit sweet and savory. And you brush that on top and broil it until it's caramelized, and it is fantastic. And that is that it's a nobu dish. Right.
- [26:09]
Jon Becker
I think it's just a traditional Japanese preparation, but, yes, I do think famously from Nobu.
- [26:14]
Shannon Larson
Right.
- [26:16]
Jon Becker
But I could be wrong.
- [26:17]
Megan Scott
I feel like our copy of our copy of the Joy, the newest edition, we have certain pages that are more wrinkly than other pages, and that's one of those wrinkly pages in the book, along with, like, your pizza dough recipe, for example, which is really gross looking at this point. But the miso eggplant is one of those standbys I make that often. I'm still trying to convince my husband that eggplant's amazing. So when he's out of town, that's one of the things that I'll make for myself, too.
- [26:47]
Shannon Larson
So he's still not on the eggplant train.
- [26:49]
Megan Scott
He's getting closer to getting on that train. I'm working on it, but it also makes Good leftovers because like I'll go into the office and bring that with a little bit of like cooked rice and some greens or something that I make with it. And it's a perfect like bowl in the middle of the day. Yeah, I'll keep you updated on.
- [27:08]
Shannon Larson
Okay. Yeah. Let me know how it goes. Convince John that it's worth it.
- [27:12]
Megan Scott
We'll just call it aubergines from now on.
- [27:13]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, it's very French. Yes. What do you think about salting eggplant? Do you salt it or do you kind of feel like it's old fashioned thing to do?
- [27:27]
Megan Scott
I, I don't know. So I do sometimes. And then like we just used Melissa Clark's ratatouille recipe from the New York Times because like the way that she breaks up each ingredient and bakes it differently at different times. So each, each vegetable has the time it needs to like get the way it needs to be. And then you put it together and we didn't salt it beforehand and it was freaking amazing. So I, I just, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that?
- [27:57]
Jon Becker
I was looking back at older editions and Irma, even In like the 1936 edition, she was just like, we saltine.
- [28:05]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, she was kind of like, it doesn't, it takes so much time and you really don't need to do that. Which is kind of funny because I feel like I think of salting as this old fashioned thing. But Even, even in 1936, Irma was like, absolutely not. I'm not doing that.
- [28:18]
Megan Scott
And that adds to the time it makes. It takes to cook it too. So if it really doesn't make a difference, then I think it would be less.
- [28:24]
Jon Becker
It definitely, it definitely makes a difference in that it gets rid of moisture from the, from the eggplant flesh which, you know, and it helps break down the structure of the eggplant which is supposed to keep it from absorbing as much oil. But yeah, there's also this other thing where it's supposed to get rid of bitterness. You know, that may have been true back in the day when, you know, the olden times when eggplants were bitter or you know, maybe we have fancy, you know, fancy, you know, breeding has gotten rid of the bitterness. But it definitely seems like something you don't really run into bitter eggplants.
- [28:59]
Shannon Larson
I've never had an eggplant that I would say was bitter.
- [29:01]
Megan Scott
I wonder if that's also just being lucky and living in Portland and so.
- [29:05]
Shannon Larson
Close to such great produce.
- [29:06]
Megan Scott
I don't know.
- [29:07]
Jon Becker
Well, yeah, I Was actually I did some digging just to see if, about the bitterness factor and eggplants and I guess that, you know, like, if you harvest them when they're mature in that they're ready to like the seeds are ready, like they'll propagate the best. It actually gets much more bitter as time goes on. But yeah, when, when they're being harvested, like for humans.
- [29:30]
Shannon Larson
Grocery store.
- [29:31]
Jon Becker
Groceries for grocery store. Like it now. I don't think it's an issue.
- [29:36]
Shannon Larson
Yeah.
- [29:37]
Jon Becker
And then supposedly like the longer you store them, the more bitter the skin gets. But the flesh doesn't get.
- [29:43]
Shannon Larson
Okay. So if you've stored your eggplant, then maybe peel the skin off.
- [29:49]
Jon Becker
Right.
- [29:49]
Shannon Larson
But otherwise only worth salting if you're going to fry it so that it doesn't absorb so much oil.
- [29:55]
Jon Becker
Exactly.
- [29:55]
Shannon Larson
Nice. So this is the part of the show where we have a question from someone who called in or texted us. And so we're going to listen to that now and answer this question.
- [30:07]
Megan Scott
Hi, Joy of Cooking, this is Jasmine and I am currently preparing for a long road trip. And my question for you is what foods would you prepare ahead of time to take on that long drive? Thanks.
- [30:21]
Shannon Larson
Bye.
- [30:21]
Megan Scott
Bye.
- [30:22]
Shannon Larson
I mean, I think since we've been talking about eggplant so much, obviously baba ganoush is the thing to make. And one thing I really like about getting the eggplant in the jar is that you can then use the jar to just store the baba ganoush in. And it has a nice screw top. It's a really sturdy jar. So you, you kind of have your storage container all ready to go. But then, you know, thinking about baba ganoush, I was also thinking about just kind of doing a full blown mezza platter with like hummus and dolmas and olives. Olives, yeah, all of the things.
- [31:01]
Jon Becker
Yeah. Some things that maybe don't require like dipping while driving or you can, you.
- [31:06]
Shannon Larson
Know, I feel like when we've been on. So John and I have been on a bunch of road trips because, well, you went on plenty of road trips before we even met because your parents were living at opposite ends of the country, basically.
- [31:18]
Jon Becker
Also true.
- [31:19]
Shannon Larson
And so sometimes I remember, like if you were, if you were driving, I would just feed you stuff as we were driving. So you could always just feed the person driving, you know.
- [31:29]
Jon Becker
Yeah. If you guys are still talking. It depends on like what point of the road trip you're in, but yeah, no good strategy.
- [31:37]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, I do feel like with our road trips that. So I had never done a really long road trip before we met, and we drove from North Carolina to Portland, Oregon, not long after we met. And one of the things that you did on the road trip that was kind of an eye opener for me was like, we went to a gas station and you were just like, this is the time to get the junk food.
- [32:02]
Megan Scott
Yes.
- [32:03]
Shannon Larson
And then we will eat better after this. So it's kind of like get whatever you want early on in the road trip. Kind of for morale. I don't know, it seemed like it was maybe for morale or like, we don't ever get to do this.
- [32:14]
Jon Becker
I just couldn't wait to have food again.
- [32:17]
Shannon Larson
You couldn't wait to have the gas.
- [32:18]
Jon Becker
Station hot dog, the Tijuana mama? Is that what you mean?
- [32:21]
Shannon Larson
Oh, yeah. The little sausage there are like, these little sausages.
- [32:25]
Jon Becker
It's the only appropriate time to have the Tijuana mama.
- [32:28]
Shannon Larson
The sausage is in a plastic sleeve.
- [32:31]
Jon Becker
Yeah, it's pickled.
- [32:32]
Shannon Larson
A pickled sauce.
- [32:33]
Jon Becker
Oh, it's pickled.
- [32:34]
Megan Scott
I don't think I've ever had one. I need to add a stable pickled sausage.
- [32:39]
Jon Becker
Okay, but that. We're getting off topic here. You don't prepare Tijuana mamas.
- [32:45]
Shannon Larson
No, you don't.
- [32:45]
Jon Becker
They're prepared for you.
- [32:46]
Megan Scott
We do the same thing when we road trip, though. We use it as. We don't. We try not to eat much junk food in general. But that's when I get to go in and buy a bag of gardettos. Like, that's like, one thing that I really love. But that is our chance to kind of like, be a little naughty and buy things that we don't normally have. We're also big popcorn people, and I think popcorn's a really good road snack. You can get, like, bagged white cheddar popcorn, but also making your own ahead of time. I know that one of my favorite mixes that we make has just popcorn and soy sauce and sriracha. And that's just like prepare, like, shaken up and then dumped in a bag. That way it's, you know, it's popcorn. It's not that bad. But then it has the yummy stuff on it. And it's easy to eat in the car, too.
- [33:31]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, that's a big plus. Do you put the soy sauce and sriracha on it in advance or do you, like, take that with you and then put it on right before you.
- [33:38]
Megan Scott
Eat it in advance? But, like, you put it in, like, a little pan and cook it up, then you dump it on. But it just gets a little. I mean, it kind of makes it soggy, but that's also kind of delicious.
- [33:47]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, you can.
- [33:48]
Jon Becker
You can also find. I feel like you can find soy sauce powder.
- [33:52]
Shannon Larson
Yeah.
- [33:53]
Megan Scott
You know, like, that's a good idea.
- [33:54]
Jon Becker
Might be a good. Good thing to look into.
- [33:56]
Megan Scott
Yeah.
- [33:57]
Jon Becker
One thing that was kind of. I don't know, it was a little extra. Extra credit. But I do remember we took a trip, like, pretty soon after we met to visit some friends in New Orleans. And you did, like, they were like, the fatah. The little.
- [34:12]
Shannon Larson
The little spinach pie.
- [34:13]
Jon Becker
Yeah, little spinach pies. But it was with, like. I feel like it was like, some leftover curry.
- [34:18]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, we. We just had some.
- [34:20]
Jon Becker
We had several leftovers. We had several, like, things of leftovers, and we were just like, okay, well, why don't we make this into a portable snack? And so it was like, little hand pies.
- [34:30]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, I remember that. I don't remember the fillings, but they were really good and nice and very easy to eat. Just. You don't need anything. The bread is kind of the.
- [34:40]
Jon Becker
Yeah.
- [34:40]
Shannon Larson
It's for everything in.
- [34:41]
Jon Becker
It's for the point in the road trip where, you know, you're not talking to the person in the other seat. You know, no one's feeding you.
- [34:52]
Shannon Larson
Wall of silence. I don't think we've ever reached that point in the road trip where we've been really mad at each other. I don't know. Maybe you have.
- [35:01]
Jon Becker
We were just watching Fargo. It's like, total. To complain at that game.
- [35:06]
Shannon Larson
Total silence.
- [35:07]
Jon Becker
Total silence.
- [35:10]
Megan Scott
I think it is important as, like, I'm usually the passenger because I don't like driving. It is important as the passenger to kind of keep an eye out for the driver and be that person. Be like, oh, you need a napkin. Oh, let me take this leftover food from you. Let me remove that trash. I don't know. Yeah, that's one thing that we try to pay attention to.
- [35:27]
Shannon Larson
Yeah. You got to take care of the driver.
- [35:29]
Megan Scott
There's, like, etiquette involved in road trip food stuff.
- [35:34]
Jon Becker
I also feel like we've made batches of granola of your. Of your, like, awesome granola.
- [35:40]
Shannon Larson
My almost burnt granola.
- [35:41]
Jon Becker
Yeah, Almost burnt olive oil granola.
- [35:45]
Shannon Larson
I found that almost burning things is sometimes a good strategy. So good. It's where you get the really good flavors.
- [35:51]
Megan Scott
Like French fries.
- [35:52]
Shannon Larson
Yeah.
- [35:52]
Megan Scott
Most burnt French fries love them.
- [35:54]
Jon Becker
Or eggplant. Am I allowed to bring it back to eggplant?
- [35:57]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, I agree.
- [35:59]
Jon Becker
Charring eggplant. So good.
- [36:01]
Shannon Larson
Other than baba ganoush, I would say I mean, I'm a big fan of just like a Chex mix, a snack mix or party mix. And we do have Joy has a really good recipe for that. I happen to know this week's caller and know that they are vegan and that recipe has butter in it. So you could easily replace that with like a vegan butter or probably just use O would be fine coconut oil. That recipe has you cook some garlic cloves in the oil or the fat to kind of extract the flavor of the garlic. So it makes it like extra, just extra tasty. Oh, and lots of Worcestershire sauce. So you might need to use soy sauce instead.
- [36:38]
Jon Becker
Or some Bragg's or.
- [36:40]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, Bragg's Liquid Aminos.
- [36:42]
Jon Becker
The appetizer chapter has several nut recipes. They're all really good. Crisp, spicy pecans is great and I think that would be a good snack. Kind of a salty sweet combo. Plus the Thai spiced peanuts is something that we added to the last edition.
- [36:57]
Shannon Larson
They're so good.
- [36:58]
Jon Becker
So good, so good.
- [36:59]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, you, you touched on something that I think is important too, that you need a balance of like you want something, you kind of want something creamy, you want something crunchy, you want something sweet, you want something savory. So you like, gotta hit all the bases in your car snacks. So you gotta have like a variety. Keep things interesting.
- [37:16]
Jon Becker
Yeah. Both textures and like you said, flavors. Yeah, for sure.
- [37:21]
Megan Scott
If you have a topic, ingredient or joy story to share, please call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or you can also send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from a text.
- [37:35]
Shannon Larson
I was born in 1952. I so remember my mother's Joy of Cooking cookbook. Over the years, it became worn and splattered with the recipes she prepared. I especially remember her lemon meringue pie. Not only did it taste good, it was beautiful. I remember the Joy of Cooking cookbook was a common and special wedding and shower gift for young women starting their married lives. So next week we will talk all about pie and maybe specifically lemon meringue pie, because that is a very good pie. So what are you guys thinking about cooking this week? What are you excited to make or anything you're looking forward to?
- [38:10]
Megan Scott
Well, I just got some fresh lemongrass from you both from your garden. So I'm definitely going to be using that this week. I think with the I'm going to continue kind of with this transition in the weather, try to like really hold on to summer, even though Personally, I'm very ready for fall because it's my favorite. So just trying to embrace that. And I think this is going to be a good chance for me to continue to be inspired in the kitchen. Just talking to you guys about all of that.
- [38:38]
Shannon Larson
Yeah, it's really helpful to, like, actually talk through what you might do rather than sit at your computer for two hours on a Sunday trying to figure out, why is it so hard to figure out what to cook?
- [38:49]
Megan Scott
I don't know. It's because every day we have to ask each other, what do you want to eat tonight? And sometimes you're just like, I just can't think about it. But it's also really fun. And then when you make something really good, it's just so exciting. Especially during the week when you're busy with work stuff.
- [39:03]
Jon Becker
Yeah, we stocked up at the farmer's market from the Peppered Earth people. We stocked up on roasted green chilies, so all of those got frozen. But we did buy some big gyms. So those are really awesome, really great variety. Very thick walled, new Mexican pepper variety. So you char those, you know, peel them and then turn them into chili's ranch.
- [39:33]
Shannon Larson
Are you gonna make it?
- [39:34]
Jon Becker
Yeah, I was thinking about it.
- [39:36]
Shannon Larson
Are you gonna do the dishes too?
- [39:38]
Jon Becker
I'll do both just this once.
- [39:44]
Shannon Larson
Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on Apple podcasts and itunes. Follow us on instagram @the joyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle pies. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.
- [40:09]
Megan Scott
We cannot do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Kayleen Veach, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.