Jolyn Chen & Louis Lin: A Casual Chat About Sauces

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: Episode Summary

Episode: Jolyn Chen & Louis Lin: A Casual Chat About Sauces
Release Date: June 20, 2025
Host: Shannon Larson, alongside co-hosts Megan Scott and John Becker
Guests: Jolene Chen & Louis Lin, co-owners of Shau Ye restaurant in Portland, Oregon

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1. Welcome and Introductions (00:38 - 09:47)

The episode opens with Shannon Larson welcoming listeners to "The Joy of Cooking Podcast," where weekly discussions revolve around recipes, kitchen stories, and current culinary adventures. Megan Scott and John Becker introduce themselves, highlighting their roles in authoring the latest edition of The Joy of Cooking. They engage in a light-hearted exchange about their favorite sauces, with Megan playfully comparing herself to tzatziki and John humorously declaring himself "50% sauce."

Notable Quote:

• Megan Scott (01:07): "If I were a sauce, I'd be tzatziki."
• John Becker (01:10): "If we're talking cumulatively, yeah, 50%."

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2. Current Cooking Endeavors and Travel (09:47 - 16:10)

Shannon shares her recent culinary activities, including making shrimp rolls and ginger pork meatballs from Melissa Clark's cookbook. Megan and John discuss their time in North Carolina, where they've been enjoying salads and pork dishes. The conversation shifts to seasonal produce, with Megan reflecting on the availability of collard greens and sharing historical insights about salmon cakes as a remedy for vitamin B3 deficiency in early 1900s Appalachian regions.

Notable Quote:

• Megan Scott (03:53): "I grew up eating [salmon cakes], like, all the time."

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3. Special Culinary Experiences (10:14 - 14:22)

Louis Lin recounts hosting a Korean barbecue cookout during a heatwave, detailing the menu that included pork belly, marinated beef, chicken, and brisket, complemented by various sides like seasoned squid and a unique potato salad. The group humorously discusses mishaps, such as forgetting to heat the corn cheese properly.

Notable Quote:

• Louis Lin (10:34): "We picked the hottest day in the entire year to do it."

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4. Introduction of Guests: Jolene Chen & Louis Lin (08:43 - 09:47)

Megan Scott introduces Jolene Chen and Louis Lin, co-owners of Shau Ye, a first-generation American restaurant in Portland. Jolene's background in interior design and Louis's culinary expertise from prestigious establishments like Rose's Luxury and Pineapple and Pearls are highlighted. Their combined experiences contribute to the unique ambiance and innovative cuisine at Shau Ye.

Notable Quote:

• Louis Lin (09:47): "We like to think of sesame paste and... fusion."

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5. Creating and Developing Sauces (40:33 - 52:58)

The core of the episode revolves around sauces. Megan Scott introduces the topic based on a listener's question about favorite sauce recipes. She differentiates between traditional French-style sauces, which involve long reductions, and modern, faster methods that utilize pre-made, flavorful ingredients. The hosts share their favorite sauces:

• John Becker discusses a Peruvian green sauce, aji verde, highlighting its simplicity and versatility.

  Notable Quote:

  • John Becker (42:32): "It's so delicious. It's so easy."

• Megan Scott talks about her go-to tahini sauce for weekday lunches.

  Notable Quote:

  • Megan Scott (43:16): "Just whisking tahini with some garlic, cumin, lemon juice, and water until it tastes good."

• Shannon Larson expresses her love for chimichurri and fresh, herb-heavy salsas.

  Notable Quote:

  • Shannon Larson (46:40): "Chimichurri on a baked potato is delicious with butter."

• Louis Lin shares insights on creating versatile salsas, emphasizing the creativity and depth they add to dishes.

  Notable Quote:

  • Louis Lin (49:30): "You can literally do so much with those things."

A segment features John Becker presenting the Table Salsa recipe (page 573), encouraging listeners to try it out and share their experiences.

Notable Quote:

• John Becker (49:46): "It's empowering to make your own sauce because then you don't have to rely on ultra-processed food corporations."

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6. Restaurant Insights and Culinary Philosophy (29:40 - 38:31)

Jolene Chen delves into the philosophy behind Shau Ye's menu, emphasizing nostalgia and personal food memories. She stresses the importance of dishes that resonate emotionally with patrons, allowing for a diverse yet cohesive menu that reflects the team’s varied backgrounds.

Notable Quote:

• Jolene Chen (30:56): "It needs to sort of hit a memory, or it hits a feeling that's more than just good food."

Louis Lin discusses the collaborative nature of their menu creation, highlighting how each team member brings unique experiences and memories to the table, resulting in dishes that connect with a broad audience.

Notable Quote:

• Louis Lin (31:31): "Like, how could this bring us together and that kind of connection."

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7. Division of Labor and Restaurant Operations (36:25 - 38:31)

Megan Scott inquires about the operational dynamics between Jolene and Louis. They explain their clear division of responsibilities—Louis handles the kitchen and culinary aspects, while Jolene manages the front of house and design elements. This synergy ensures smooth restaurant operations and a harmonious working environment.

Notable Quote:

• Louis Lin (36:25): "I take care of most of the finances and whatnot."

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8. Listener Engagement and Recipe Highlights (52:58 - 58:08)

Towards the end, Megan Scott invites listeners to try the featured recipes and share their results on social media. The episode concludes with a preview of the next week's topic—sourdough bread troubleshooting—and a recap of what each host is excited to cook or eat in the coming week, ranging from strawberry jam to salt-cured egg yolks.

Notable Quote:

• Megan Scott (52:19): "If you cook the recipe, please tag us on Instagram @hejoyofcooking."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast offers an in-depth exploration of sauces, enriched by the expertise and experiences of guests Jolene Chen and Louis Lin. Through engaging conversations, listeners gain valuable insights into creating versatile sauces, restaurant operations, and the importance of personal culinary memories. The blend of practical tips, heartfelt stories, and interactive segments makes this episode both informative and entertaining for home cooks and culinary enthusiasts alike.

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Stay Connected:

• Website: joyofcooking.substack.com
• Instagram: @hejoyofcooking
• Recipe Highlight: Table Salsa on page 573 of The Joy of Cooking

Join the Conversation:
Share your sauce creations and culinary stories by tagging @hejoyofcooking on Instagram or calling the hotline at 503-395-8858.

Transcript

[Unknown]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent, Joy of Cooking user and fan and frozen mango, enthusiastic.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. And if I were a sauce, I'd be tzatziki.

[John Becker]

I'm John Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. And if we are what we eat, then I am at least 50% sauce. If we're talking cumulatively, yeah, 50%.

[Megan Scott]

I agree with that.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I didn't really know the glory of sauces until I met you. Wow. Except for gravy.

[John Becker]

I find this hard to believe, but I'll take it.

[Megan Scott]

Gravy. That's it. Shannon, how's it going? What have you been cooking this week?

[Shannon Larson]

It's going pretty well. It was the first hot weather we've had here in Portland this year and I'm not the biggest fan of hot weather, so we didn't do a lot of like real cooking in the kitchen, but we did make shrimp rolls and we used the lobster roll recipe from the Joy and added way more celery because, you know, I love celery and it was delicious. And that's going to be a go to recipe for us, I think, throughout the summer. No cooking at all. We just bought like pre cooked shrimp and everything from Trader Joe's and paired it with salad from the garden and potato chips, which was really fun. It was like a fun meal. I'm trying to do a thing where I'm picking a cookbook and I'm doing a few recipes from that cookbook, like in a row. I feel like I lose track of my cookbooks and like the recipes I like when I go back and forth so much. So I'm cooking a lot from Melissa Clark's dinner recipe book. And we made the ginger pork meatballs and a smashed cucumber salad and that was really good too. So a little bit of cooking with the meatballs, but the cucumber salad is super refreshing and spicy, which is lovely. How's everything going on your end? I know you're traveling right now. It's kind of weird to see you On a screen.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we're traveling. We're in North Carolina right now visiting my family, and we have been cooking a little bit. John made crab cakes.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

But even before we left, we knew it was going to be hot, and so we tried to consume as much lettuce as possible before we left because we knew it was going to bolt.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

So, yeah, lots of lunch. Salad.

[Megan Scott]

So much salad.

[John Becker]

Big, big salads.

[Megan Scott]

I'm kind of done for a while, I think, with salad.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

But it was good because since we've been here, I feel like I've eaten pork like, six times and.

[John Becker]

Or shrimp and grits.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, shrimp and grits. Some combination of those things, which is delicious. But I'm kind of ready to be back in the salad space again.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. You like for a. A lot of veggies in preparation for your travels?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I've had collard greens at least twice, which is awesome, because I feel like I don't. I don't really eat those in Portland. Like, you don't really see collard greens much at the, like the grocery store. Or if you do, it's four little leaves.

[John Becker]

Yeah. The bundles are small.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Really small bundles here. If you get them, it's like the site. It's huge. I'm making a gesture no one can see, but they're huge leaves and in large quantities for very little money. So, yeah, eating them here is a little different.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Also, I think I saw this on social media, but there was, like, a video about salmon cakes. Like fried pan fried salmon cakes. I don't know if you grew up eating those, Shannon, but I grew up eating those, like, all the time. And I learned only recently that the reason that a lot of people in the south eat salmon cakes is because back in the early 1900s, there was kind of an epidemic of pellagra in, like, the Appalachian region. It's a vitamin B3 deficiency. Because a lot of people were just very poor and they were eating a lot of corn, like cornmeal, but not getting a lot of meat or dairy or eggs. And so the government subsidized canned salmon and people would. And it's shelf stable, so people would have canned salmon and they would make salmon cakes once a week, and that could cure vitamin B3 deficiency. So I just am now finding out why I ate salmon cakes so much growing up.

[Louis Lin]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Megan Scott]

Which is kind of fun.

[Shannon Larson]

That is interesting because you wouldn't think of salmon cakes being like a North Carolina treat.

[Megan Scott]

No, no. Definitely not.

[Shannon Larson]

Any favorite foods while you're. While you're out there that you're looking forward to eating. I think there. Isn't there like a breakfast spot? You like a diner or something?

[John Becker]

Well, we did today. We actually went to a hot dog joint that we were talking about how we were looking forward to going there. It's been around since 1910. It's like this tiny little place in Winston. I think it's officially in Winston.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's in Winston Salem.

[John Becker]

But yeah, it's called Pulliams. They like wrap their hot dogs in napkins. That's their to go strategy. The dogs are like this very kind of unnatural shade of red, pinkish red. Kind of like pickled sausages, but they're donned and. Yeah. Then they're Carolina style. Or mustard and chili and slaw. Slaw. But the slaw is interesting. It's. It's kind of got like this sauerkraut slaw hybrid vibe. And, you know, it's chopped fine. Cause that's, that's how it's done, but really good.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds delicious.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

North Carolina style hot dogs.

[Shannon Larson]

I hadn't heard of that.

[Megan Scott]

And before we get into the show, I wanted to recap quickly our Joy Scouts recipe of the week, which was crab cakes on page 358, which we recommended serving with the Creole remoulade sauce on page 564. John actually made those last night to go with dinner. John, do you want to kind of walk through the recipe and your thoughts?

[John Becker]

Do I ever. It was kind of difficult sourcing some of the higher grade crab, so just went with special crab.

[Shannon Larson]

What is special crab? Oh, special. Oh, got it. Canned crab.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Special crab.

[John Becker]

Yeah, it's called special, but it's. That means it's not special. So I used fresh breadcrumbs and you know, there's some, some mayo in there. There's crab.

[Megan Scott]

Crab oil seasoning.

[John Becker]

Crab oil seasoning is, is optional, but recommended. Trying to remember.

[Megan Scott]

And they were really. They're really nice because they don't have a ton of filler. Like, there's. There are some breadcrumbs, but you still have to use care when you're flipping them in the pan because they're just very lightly held together. So the crab is really prevalent and the texture is really nice. They're not, they're not super bready or like held together with too much egg. But yeah, that was a really nice. We don't eat crab cakes very often, so that was a treat.

[John Becker]

Yeah, for sure. I've tried some recipes or. Well, I actually haven't made them. Other people have made them for me, but where instead of having like a fresh bread crumb and egg binder, it's food processed shrimp. It acts as a really good binder. Yeah. Different texture but also really good.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, it sounds delicious. I did have crab cakes, but I have to admit we didn't make them ourselves. We got them from the farmer's market. I just didn't have time to make the crab cakes to be honest. But it sounded really good. I can't believe didn't use I don't think they used special crab unfortunately. It was like actual Dungeness crab. Sorry.

[Megan Scott]

I know, I know it's hard because the Dungeness is so good. I wish we had been able to make it with Dungeness Cooking with Matcha.

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[Megan Scott]

This week we'd like to welcome Jolene Chen and Louis Lynn to the table. Jolene was born and raised in a small suburb of Los Angeles. She spent her early years in the industry working in Washington, D.C. most notably at Rose's Luxury. Jolene moved back to LA to pursue a career in interior design and a few years later she began her chapter in Portland where she worked at an interior design firm before embarking on her own personal project, Xiaoye with co owner Louis Lin. Lewis, like Jolene, is a child of Taiwanese immigrants and was born born and raised in the same LA suburb. After getting a degree in business, economics and accounting, he enrolled at the Culinary Institute of America at Greystone. From there, Lewis worked behind Nancy Silverton at Osteria Matzah, then James Beard Award winner Aaron Silverman at his restaurants Roses, Luxury and Pineapple and Pearls, ultimately helping the latter earn two Michelin stars in Its inaugural year. After moving back to LA in 2017 and working at Felix Trattoria, he moved to Portland and opened Shau Ye, a neighborhood first generation American restaurant. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us this week.

[Louis Lin]

Hi. We're so excited to be here.

[Jolene Chen]

Thanks for having us.

[Megan Scott]

So what did you guys cook this week that you are really excited about? Or what did you eat this week that you have been really excited about?

[Louis Lin]

Ooh. So this past weekend was super hot. Like Shannon said. We actually hosted like a little barbecue cookout at our house. And so Lewis did all the cooking, I did none of it. And the menu was Korean barbecue. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

What was on the menu?

[Jolene Chen]

It's actually really interesting because we don't really eat at home a whole lot. You know, we'll make like one recipe a week and that'll. We'll make like enough for leftovers for three days. And so the barbecue, the little get together that we had was for Jolene's birthday, which was last week.

[Megan Scott]

Happy birthday. Happy birthday.

[Shannon Larson]

Happy.

[Megan Scott]

Thank you.

[Jolene Chen]

And of course, so we picked the, the hottest day in the entire year to do it. But basically we, you know, we thought like it's. Korean barbecue is kind of like finger foodie, right? You put a bunch of lettuce and a bunch of sides out and people just kind of grab things as they go. And so that was always the plan to like sort of set the whole table with all the sides and then I'd be outside just like in my little tiny tabletop grill cooking meat and as it's ready, just kind of bring it in and put inside.

[Louis Lin]

So in 95 degree weather, you're a hero in front of like all the heart, like the, the coal and all that.

[Jolene Chen]

It wasn't, it wasn't as bad as you guys are making it sound, honestly, because it was already hot. Like what's, what's the difference, right? But yeah, it was like, you know, pork belly and, and marinated beef and chicken and, and brisket and then all of the. Every seat sort of like room temperature side. You can imagine. It was great. And I was actually kind of bummed because basically have no leftovers, which is kind of a. It was sad.

[Megan Scott]

Oh man.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, it was so much me. It was like crazy. But we had a lot of people over and actually no, I contributed. I was in charge of corn cheese.

[Jolene Chen]

Which is, which was already made and.

[Louis Lin]

Then just like layer of like a layer of mozzarella cheese. And he was like, jolene, can you please put that in the microwave and just make sure it's hot. I was like, absolutely. And then people were showing up and I was like hosting and I put in the microwave and I totally forgot about it. And it was like two or three hours later in the middle of a conversation next to my microwave, I was.

[Jolene Chen]

Like, the corn cheese.

[Louis Lin]

So we have a lot of corn cheese left. That's all we have left.

[Jolene Chen]

The one thing.

[John Becker]

So it literally was too late.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah, not like, not too late, but late enough. Yeah, right. Enough that everyone was done with their meal.

[Shannon Larson]

You had one job.

[Louis Lin]

This is why I'm not a chef.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I was going to ask about the what banchan you were serving with the barbecue.

[Jolene Chen]

So lettuce and perilla leaves, which are, I think are like you have to. And then you just go to H Mart and you buy kimchi and I like the, the radish kimchi. And I also like the seasoned squid. So those are the three little things. And then I made like what has to be the biggest mound of potato salad, which is like, had corn and like diced apples in it and like kewpie mayo and like, like, lots of, lots of black pepper. So that chapch, I made a big batch of that, which we had a little bit left over. We ate that yesterday. Sjang, a couple sauces. The little pickled radishes I really like did not as much work as it sounds, cuz I bought a lot of this stuff, which honestly is the way to go. And yeah, I think that's it. And then all of our friends, like, they're all asking like, what they should bring. And I was like, there should be enough food, so just bring snacks, dessert or drinks. And we ended up having like watermelons and cherries and like three packs of Oreos. For some reason, someone made a little like strawberry. One of our friends made a little strawberry cobbler thing. That was amazing. And someone brought rice Krispie treats. And it was just like, it was a very full spread.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, full house, full spread. It was so lovely.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds amazing.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, that sounds delicious. We actually had Korean barbecue this past weekend as well. We were in Atlanta for a knife show, which is a long story that we're not going to get into. But I didn't realize this until we went to Atlanta, but it's a really great city for Korean barbecue, so we had to eat that at least once. And we ordered way too much meat, but it was great and we crushed it so good.

[Jolene Chen]

It's really one of the best meals that you can have.

[Louis Lin]

It's a whole experience Actually, if you've never even had it, like, traditionally at the restaurants and stuff like that.

[Jolene Chen]

So for sure, it's so much fun.

[Megan Scott]

I was reading a little bit about it, and I guess, like, in Atlanta proper, you know, there are rules against using charcoal indoors, which makes cents. That's fair enough. But I guess in some suburbs of Atlanta, some of the local fire marshals haven't put the kibosh on that yet. And so if you go to certain places, you can actually have the experience of grilling over charcoal in the restaurant. And that sounds amazing, and I bet it tastes amazing. But we didn't travel too far out. We didn't have a car. But in case you're in Atlanta, maybe that's something to look into.

[Louis Lin]

Add that's a.

[John Becker]

If they don't listen to this, and.

[Megan Scott]

Then the jig is up. Yeah.

[Jolene Chen]

Way to go, narc.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jolene Chen]

Charcoal.

[Megan Scott]

Since we're getting into spring. Well, actually, we're getting into summer. What produce are y' all cooking with most these days? What are you most excited about cooking with Lewis?

[Jolene Chen]

Jolene. Okay, I'm gonna start by giving an unpopular opinion.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, sorry. Jesus.

[Jolene Chen]

I think. I think spring produce is, like, slightly overrated. I'm sorry, cuz I'm a fall produce kind of guy. I'm sorry. I like. I just love cabbage. I love cabbage so much. I know. It's so such a silly thing to say. It's just. I'm sorry. But I do love onions as well, and onions are one of my. I sound so stupid. I love onions of all kinds of. And so in the spring, the one thing that I get so excited about are onions of all kinds, every type of spring onion, wild garlic ramps, green garlic. It's. Gosh, I sound like an ass.

[Shannon Larson]

No, no, no, you sound great.

[Jolene Chen]

I agree.

[John Becker]

Green garlic is something that. I don't know. It doesn't feel like spring unless I can get my hands on, you know, a good. The kind of bunch that looks like scallions, that not. Not necessarily bulging. Yeah, quite yet.

[Shannon Larson]

I just got some of that last week at the farmer's market. I also have garlic scapes in my fridge right now, too, which I think are so underrated and so delicious. So we're. We agree.

[Jolene Chen]

Okay, sure.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. We're on the same page. You sound great. You sound fine. I kind of agree. I mean, I think fall produce is awesome because you're still getting the last of summer stuff and you're getting some really great fall, like, greens and things and. Yeah. Cabbage I love. We always, almost always have cabbage in our fridge, so you're in good company.

[Jolene Chen]

Thank. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, you know, onions of all kinds are, like, super exciting, and then you get a lot of delicate greens. So, like, fava beans, the first week that they're out are, like, so exciting to me. But cooking from a restaurant perspective really changes the way you look at produce. Sometimes I think I wish I can go get away from that, but, like, I wish I could be, like, I would love to just grab a little bundle of fava beans and. And cook them. But then I always think, like, they're never going to be as good as this moment right now. The first week that they're at market or available, and then I don't want it to disappoint myself by cooking a little bit and then. And then not having it, not being able to get it again. So I kind of just, like, stop myself from doing that for the restaurant.

[Megan Scott]

So you don't have it at all?

[Jolene Chen]

I. You know, it's weird. I have. I haven't had it. Well, actually, that's not true. I've had one. I've had, like, a few fava beans this year, and then that was. And then I kind of just, like, stop myself because I don't want to be sad.

[John Becker]

When you were saying from a restaurant perspective that you wanted to avoid fava beans, I thought it might have something to do with, like, hours of practice.

[Megan Scott]

Right.

[Shannon Larson]

That's what I was thinking, too. I was like, it's a lot of work, right?

[Jolene Chen]

It is a lot of work, and it's worth it. It's just that, like, you get it one time, and you go through one case, and then the next week, you order another couple case or two. And they are very different, you know, especially in Oregon, where, like, again, like, the first week is incredible, and, like, we actually have seasons of specific produce that really do only last a couple weeks. So then all of a sudden, you're like, by the time you're in the second week of fava beans, they're kind of, like, starting to get a little. A little starchy and a little bit more bitter and a little older, which is what they do. They life. And then by week three, you're like, oh, wow, these are like. You really have to work to make them good in it. Maybe that says more about me than anything. Jolene, you can start. You can take over for now.

[Louis Lin]

Well, it's also, like, when you guys look at produce from a restaurant perspective, you have to think about the dish. You have to R D the dish, it has to be good before even gets on the menu. And sometimes that is the length of the whole season of whatever you're ring. Like the fava beans, for example. So it's kind of interesting, but I'm one of those people that don't really understand the seasons. Like, I don't know when things come into season. I just never learned it. I didn't have to learn it. Loose is like an encyclopedia of this kind of stuff. Like, he just knows. So I just kind of. He's like my crutch. So I don't really know. I just know tomatoes are coming in soon.

[Shannon Larson]

Yes.

[Louis Lin]

Eloisa Farms apparently has them coming up, which is really exciting for us at the restaurant. People in general. I know everyone's, like, all about tomatoes, and that's just me, too. It's like BLT season, and, like, our tomato toast on the menu comes back and everyone's super excited about it. So. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Ooh, what's your tomato toast?

[Jolene Chen]

It is. It's a recipe that we started the restaurant with, opened it with, and it's really simple. It's very similar to the ones that you would find in the south when heirloom tomato season comes around. So bread, mayonnaise, good tomatoes, black pepper. We use, like, you know, sourdough bread that we buy from makers around town. And then we make a mayonnaise that's seasoned with, like, a shallot oil instead. So we, like, fry shallots and garlic and use that as the base of the mayonnaise and seasoned with, like, soy and other things. So it's this, like, inherently very savory, alliumy sort of thing. And then we just take cherry tomatoes, the best ones that we can find, and marinate them very lightly in. In rice vinegar and olive oil and. And salt and sugar. And then that just gets thrown on top with, like, up so many herbs. And in a nutshell, that's really. That's really.

[Louis Lin]

You have, like, fried crispies on top.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah, yeah. So the shallots and the garlic that you fry to make the oil go on to top of the toast. Yeah. And it's.

[John Becker]

Sounds good.

[Shannon Larson]

I know. My mouth is watering right now. I'm so excited for tomato season.

[Megan Scott]

Same.

[Jolene Chen]

It's great. And it's like the first recipe that we were like, if we don't bring back every year, we would get in trouble from people.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah. And it's fun because it's like, it marks the start of summer in our restaurant, which is, like, kind of cute. And this will be our Third time having it on the menu now, so it's very exciting.

[Shannon Larson]

I know you mentioned you don't cook at home very often, but when you do, do you have any. Go to recipes that you typically cook. I know that you cook a lot all the time, obviously, Louis. So anything easy or, like, naughty foods you, like, sneak in for dinner.

[Louis Lin]

Sometimes I feel like I only know how to make Korean food. This is so weird. I'm not even Korean, but, like, I just love it, and it's so easy to me. And I think I periodically. I always make, like, kimchi jigae, which is, like, just kimchi stew. And it's great because you make it and then you can make a whole batch and it lasts forever. And actually, like, when it sits in the juices for, you know, one to two days and beyond, it's like, it gets better and better. It doesn't die with time, it gets better with time. So I feel like I've been making a lot of that from winter and Anon.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah. And we. We have, like, a rotating, very small group of things that we always will make. And we'll go back to a couple of Korean. You know, dishes are. Are definitely up there. We buy the specific brand of tortillas, and we use that to do, like, breakfast tacos. Burritos we made for a while. We were doing, like, chicken Caesar wraps a lot, which was, like, one of those things that, like, we. You either use kale or Brussels sprouts or romaine or anything that, like, lasts in the fridge for a long time, and you, like, pre cook a bunch of chicken and you just, like, have dressing and you just make that. So that's one of those, like, easy meals that. That I think we love making, but really, like, I don't know, we eat very simply at home. We try to make stuff that will, like Jolene said, like, last in the fridge and get better over time. So stews and pasta and sauces and stuff like that. And. Yeah, I don't. I don't know why I'm, like, blanking on specific things.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, I think, like, there's, like, this misconception of, like, restaurant people eating, like, fantastic food at home. It really ends up being, like, more of a necessity type of thing. We eat not for, like, pure enjoyment. It's just like, okay, what are we missing in our, like, food group because of our lifestyle and, like, what we have to eat at the restaurant? And it's like, it's not always the healthiest thing at the restaurant. And so I think that's what happens. It'll be like, oh, we'll be on a burrito kick. And it's like, well, okay, we're on a protein kick. And then we'll just see what we can have all the time. And it's a super repetitive. It's not sexy at all. Like, everyone thinks that we like how we probably eat or imagine, like, restaurant people and. Chef people.

[Jolene Chen]

Chef people.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, exactly. You chef people. You know how we eat at home. Like, we really. It's, like, funny because, like, everyone always thinks, like, and I don't know, like, Lewis cooks these fantastic meals at home. It's like, not that I love your cooking at home. It's amazing. And I say that in, like, the most genuine way, but I think that it really is, like, the simple things, the quickest things, and, like, the things that we don't have to think about, and we just make and go and eat and.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah. Like, for instance, we'll do, like, simple hand roll nights, and we'll make a big batch of, like, tuna mayo, and we'll have some random, like, crab, K, R, A B, crab, and make little avocado rolls. And that will be. And we'll make bowls for that, like, and that'll be sort of what we eat the rest of the week. You know, leftovers. Or like, Jolene made oyakodon, which is, like, one of those dishes that is easy to make a lot of a base of something and just, like, heat up and add some eggs and cook it really quickly and throw it over rice and just, like, chow down. And so it's like, yeah, healthy. Ish. Satisfying. So that you don't want to eat a bunch of junk food and then also easy and, you know, something that you can make a lot of at one time, that's like. That's. That saves us sometimes.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

What tortillas do you guys try to have on hand all the time?

[Jolene Chen]

I think it's called Tortilla Land.

[Louis Lin]

No. No. It's like.

[Jolene Chen]

No, I'm sorry. I was wrong.

[Louis Lin]

Is it La Tortilla?

[Jolene Chen]

No.

[Louis Lin]

Is it really Tortilla Land?

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my gosh. Megan and John, it's like having you two here.

[Louis Lin]

Oh, my God. It's Tortilla Land.

[Megan Scott]

Tortilla Land.

[Louis Lin]

You know what it was? It came about because I got into this whole thing about, like, oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. Just really quick. We were just going through this phase of, like, looking at every ingredient that goes into the things we buy, and I was trying to avoid sunflower oil, you know, all these things that were like, things I couldn't pronounce. And I was trying to make it as healthy as possible. I was like, we rarely eat at home, so at the very least we should just eat really like good, real whole foods. And so we were looking at all the tortillas and gosh, this was like one of the few that's just like water and flour.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah.

[Louis Lin]

And it lasts a good amount too.

[Jolene Chen]

Do you guys know about this anti ultra process thing that happened about a month ago, two months ago. It was all. It was like tick tock and whatever.

[Shannon Larson]

I think I like ultra processed foods.

[Megan Scott]

General. Like no seed oils, no dyes generally. I'm familiar with that.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah, it was kind of like that. And Jolene was like, oh my gosh. Like, look at all this stuff that's in this food. And I was like, hey, I'm, I'm with you. So, like, let's find alternatives to everything that we can get that's like, only has a few ingredients. Tortilla land in the fridge section, not cooked yet. So you have to take their flour tortillas and you get them in a pack of 12. Or like, I think if you go to Costco, you can get a massive pack of them and you just get a skillet hot and you heat it up on, on either side, you know, for 30 seconds a piece. Or one minute. One minute on each side. And they're like semi raw tortillas and you cook them yourself and you can cook them to the your desired crisp ability, like either super soft or, or whatever. And they're great.

[Louis Lin]

They're so good. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. That actually sounds awesome. I mean, it sounds like you're kind of getting the benefits of a freshly made tortilla, but you don't have to make them.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah. And they last in the fridge forever. Even though they're like. It's literally just a few ingredients.

[Megan Scott]

That's awesome. We're going to check that out. It's at Costco.

[John Becker]

Taking notes here.

[Louis Lin]

They have some at Costco, but it comes in like a pack of 50, which is psycho Dang.

[Shannon Larson]

We can split some.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, we'll split some. That's a good idea.

[Jolene Chen]

I actually think it's two packs of 25.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, that would be perfect.

[John Becker]

Perfect. Yeah. Nice.

[Megan Scott]

So your restaurant chau means midnight snack, is that correct?

[Louis Lin]

Correct.

[Megan Scott]

What is your midnight snack? What is your go to?

[Louis Lin]

Oh, man. Instant noodles for sure. And we like have a good stock of them in all different flavors, all different brands. It was really inspired by Lewis's sister Like, we went to go visit her in New York, and she had a whole instant noodle drawer. And I was like, yes.

[Megan Scott]

What?

[Shannon Larson]

I need to make that happen in my life.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah. And it's such a thing to, like, I don't know, have that maybe just for us. I don't know.

[Jolene Chen]

I grew up eating, you know, we're. We're children of the 90s and the 2000s. I grew up eating so much fast food and so much, like, pro. Talk about ultra processed.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah.

[Jolene Chen]

So many instant noodles. And it was, like, part of growing up. And I think we balance it pretty well these days. But definitely, like, if we have nothing going on, like, that's. That's one of the things that you pull out, and you're like, we have a variety. We always have, like, you know, at least five or six different. Five or six packs, you know, a few flavors, and it's great. It's. It's the best.

[Megan Scott]

How do you top them? I feel like it's all about the toppings.

[Louis Lin]

Totally. When we're trying to be healthy, we'll put in all the greens that we have that are dying in the fridge in there, and then, like, a fried egg, sometimes Spam. But we. We stopped buying Spam because we stopped buying. My phase.

[Jolene Chen]

It's pretty crazy because we're. We're basically saying that we only eat junk food at home, which is. It's rough, but. No. Yeah. We always have, like, bags of. Of greens that we try to save as long as possible. And so, like, that's the one thing that we can throw into an incidental to make you feel less bad. And, like, an egg. Yeah, it's protein.

[John Becker]

It's good for you.

[Louis Lin]

Totally.

[Jolene Chen]

What else? Midnight snack. Wise man. It's just leftovers.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, Those are great. Those make great midnight snacks. Because you don't want to do a lot of cooking at midnight.

[Jolene Chen]

No, no.

[Louis Lin]

I could only boil water. That's, like, the most I will do in a microwave situation, I think.

[Megan Scott]

But speaking of your restaurant, could you just talk a little bit about, like, when you create dishes for Xavier, what is the lens that you're looking through? Like, what is the thread that ties all of the dishes together?

[Jolene Chen]

It's a great question. You know, I really wanted to have a space that I felt like I could explore who I was as an individual. You know, working in a lot of restaurants, you have sort of strict guidelines as the kind of food that you can put on a menu, and those are great because it gives you parameters, and it gives you something to work off of. But if you're, you know, a creative person of some sort and you want to figure out who you are, it's nice to be able to, like, just explore. And so the few things that we really care about is, number one, like, can we put together food that feels somewhat nostalgic to somebody in some form? Right. It needs to sort of hit a memory, or it hits a hit a feeling that's more than just good food. And so that's the one thing that I'm, like, I feel like I'm pretty good at grasping within myself is like, you know, I like to think of food memories and things that have inspired me in. In my whole life and try to recreate those things or try to recreate that, like, feeling that I've had for other people. And so that's like, the. The main thing for me is how can I construct a menu that hits a lot of points, that is. Has something for everybody? But also, like, every single dish that comes on, there's a little bit of a backstory to it, even if it's quite simple.

[Louis Lin]

And I think that it's not always through Lewis's lens. It's like the other chefs that put, you know, a dish on the menu, so it could be a line cook, it could be your sous chef, your cdc, when Sam was with us. And I think it's so interesting because it's like, it's kind of a mishmash of a lot of different things based on where they grew up and the different restaurants they've worked under or with and at. And I think that all really informs those food memories and, like, what they want to put out into the world that represents them the truest, I guess.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah, we like to call our food first generation American food, which I know feels really heady and kind of out there, but it was really a way for me to just say, like, hey, I am a first generation American person. I don't need to necessarily give you my whole background, but just by saying that should let you know that there's a little bit of nuance to what I want to do and who I am as a person, and that maybe you shouldn't look at me and just decide or, like, judge or expect anything from me. And so it's a way for us to, like, yeah, like, every single person who walks, who works for us, has their own story and their own sort of experiences and the things that have inspired them in their lives. Is there a way for us to create a category that, like, encompasses all Those people. Right. And gives everybody a chance to explore the kind of food that they, you know, that. That they want to make. And so you. We use the lens of, like, seasonality and things that are coming around, because everything in Oregon and Portland in general is super inspiring. The seasons and. And the. And the produce and the. The fact that you can get great meat and seafood basically from an hour away any. Any in any direction is really inspiring. And then you take that and you're just like, well, what do I have? What can I think of, given these things? When. When these things are laid out in front of me, what can I make that sort of explains who. Who I am or how do I sort of translate a memory that I have onto a plate? And, yeah, it gives. I. Hopefully it gives everyone the freedom to explore who they are and be able to put anything on a menu. It doesn't need to sort of make sense in. In a typical fashion.

[Louis Lin]

And I think, like, the beauty in that and something that I didn't realize would happen is that because those memories and those experiences are so varied from person to person, whoever's put making that dish, it ends up, like, hitting for other people. Like our guests that have those different food memories, but with the same similar dish, which is kind of, like, really magical in a way. Like, I think Lewis put on, like, a beet pickled egg dish with tonado on the bottom. And something about that was a memory for us when we went to Paris this one time and saw a big jug of it, and just there was a food memory that was related to that for us. And then a guest literally was like, this reminds me of, like, my grandma's, like, farmhouse, and it's like, we could not be more different. We could not have a more different upbringing. But how could this bring us together and that kind of connection, you know what I mean?

[Megan Scott]

So it's like a way of cooking authentically for you, but without being pigeonholed into, like, a very specific cuisine. It's more about memory and place than it is about a cuisine.

[Shannon Larson]

Perfect.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Shannon Larson]

I think that's what I like about going to your restaurant is, like, the menu feels so creative and different than so many other places because it's just all coming from people's hearts.

[Louis Lin]

I think that's beautiful.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, it's really good. And of course, your mouth is so good. Those little Madelines.

[Megan Scott]

We. Oh, yeah, we had the. We did have the madeleines. And then what else did we get? It was, like, almost like an Indian takeout.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

It was so good. The lamb.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

Good.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah. And it's funny because, like, you know, you can name a dish, and I have, like, a reason why it hits the menu, but the lamb curry is this, like, takeout dish from a specific restaurant in la, when we were living there, that we would get probably more than we ordered anything in that entire city.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah. It was, like, once a month minimum.

[Jolene Chen]

And I couldn't even tell you until I started doing research about this specific dish, like, where it came from or what it was. I just knew it was. We both knew it was, like, the best thing in the world. And so it came about, like, as. As the. The weather was getting a little cold. We were like, what are we gonna do to, like, put something Stewie on? And I was like, I really want to be able to figure out how to make this lamb curry because it's just such a strong memory for us. And that came around. And then the Madeleine's is like. There's a restaurant in San Francisco which is. It's incredible, and it's been around for a long time. State bird provision.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah.

[Jolene Chen]

And they have, like, an. A financier that they serve with, like, a chicken liver mousse or a duck liver mousse. And it's this, like, sweet, salty thing that I remember from my first meal there when I was. I must have been 12 years ago or 10 years ago, and I clocked it, and I was like, I want to put something savory, something sweet and savory on the menu as a little, like, a little bread thing. And it just. It organically came from that. So. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

So I had to edit down your bios for the podcast, but as I was reading them, I realized how many different skills. Well, skills you need, but skills that both of you have to run a restaurant. So there's business, there's accounting, there's culinary hospitality, design. Is there a pretty clear division of labor between you two, or do you both kind of wear all the hats?

[Louis Lin]

Yeah. I think we are really lucky that our Venn diagram doesn't really, like, touch too much. And I think that is what makes this restaurant a little easier to manage between the two of us. Because it is very clear, you know, Lewis does handle everything from the kitchen and beyond, and then I handle everything in the front of house, and we kind of tag team marketing in, like, a weird way. Like, he's. I use him a lot as, like, my subject for. For content creation. And then, you know, had to learn how to make reels. Like, every young person out there and, you know, we kind of make it work. For sure.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah. I mean, she. Jolene, has done so much in her life, especially in the restaurant industry. And for her to be able to look at a space and draw from all of her sort of experience in the front of house and build out a space that made sense and was beautiful because she's an interior designer was pretty incredible. And for me, having run restaurants from the back of house perspective and having gone to school and. And knowing a little bit about business, was able to sort of help take on a lot of that stuff. But then you would think, like, oh, like, I'm probably doing payroll. Like, no, Jolene does payroll and all the onboarding and that stuff, but I take care of most of the finances and whatnot. And so, yeah, we're able to split things up. And honestly, like, it's really nice because there's a lot of stuff that she does that I would, number one, not be able to do very well. And also, number two, just don't want to. And I think vice versa, too.

[Louis Lin]

Exactly.

[Shannon Larson]

I do want to say the space is absolutely beautiful. Your design aesthetic is immaculate. And I think on Instagram you said it was like Wes Anderson meets granny or.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, English granny. Yeah, that totally is what that is.

[Shannon Larson]

It totally is. It's so lovely. I love your space so much.

[Louis Lin]

Thank you so much.

[Megan Scott]

I love that it's very clean, but it also feels homey. Like it's not clean in a sterile way. It feels like not everything matches perfectly. You know, it has that kind of home feeling.

[Louis Lin]

Totally. Yeah. We wanted it to feel like a home. We wanted it to feel lived in and not so precious because it's a restaurant also. So it, like, it can't be precious even if I wanted it to be.

[Jolene Chen]

We spent a lot of our time pre opening thinking about what we wanted to feel like in there more than anything else. I think that's probably the number one thing that we talked about pre opening was like, when you walk in the door on a Friday and the lights are low, what should it feel like? That's the energy. And designed around that and designed the kitchen around that. Designed, like the sound system around that and the playlist and, you know, design all the cutlery around that.

[Louis Lin]

So, yeah.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

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[Megan Scott]

So each week we choose a topic based on caller questions and this week we're talking about sauces. So could you play or read the question please?

[Unknown]

I have been getting into making sauces. Any favorite sauce recipes? I loved the sandwich episode. So funny. Thank you for making me laugh.

[Shannon Larson]

That was a really funny one. It was so silly.

[Megan Scott]

That's a really great question. I feel like the world of sauces is so vast, but I made some notes about the kinds of sauces we make the most. So I feel like there's kind of this old way of thinking about sauces which is very fresh, French driven. So you're reducing for many hours. You're building layers of flavor by roasting vegetables or bones and sauteing things and adding wine and reduce, reduce, reduce. And then there's kind of a newer way of thinking about sauces, which is it's not really a new way. I mean, a lot of these sauces have been around for a very long time, but it's where you are mixing together condiments or ingredients that are already very flavorful, whether they're fermented or just they have been simmered and then packaged and you buy them and you mix those things together to get something very flavorful and delicious in a short period of time. And so the sauces we make the most fall into the latter category because we just don't have hours and hours to spend reducing a sauce But I would say since it's getting into summertime, we're thinking about green sauces a lot. We're making a lot of. We're making a lot of chimichurri, like salsa verde, zug, all those delicious fresh herbal sauces. The sauce that we serve with basically anything grilled, which is actually not in the joy of cooking yet, but it's going to be in the next edition, is called aji verde. It's a Peruvian green sauce. It's like a cilantro based and mayonnaise based sauce that you blend. And every time we make it, everyone is just licking the plate. It's so delicious. John, you could probably. You. I feel like you make that sauce all the time.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, no, I mean, it's super simple. It's. Requires almost no prep. I mean, you, you have to run a knife through some cilantro to make sure that it's, you know, the blender is not going to get too clogged up or you have to use that, the plunger, whatever. Yeah, swizzle, whatever it's called. And yeah, like, I mean, we just put, I mean, we take the stem off, but we put like a whole, whole jalapenos in there. I mean, probably start with one, but.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I think depending on how, how spicy you like it.

[John Becker]

Yeah, depending on who's coming over. And garlic, some mayonnaise out of the jar.

[Megan Scott]

We use Dukes, but whatever. Mayonnaise would work. Just don't use mango whip, please. Like, kewpie would be really good too.

[John Becker]

Yeah, the subtleties of the mayo are going to get lost in there.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

So.

[Megan Scott]

And then the kind of my weekday lunch sauce that I put on, whatever vegetables and whatever I have laying around is like a really basic tahini sauce. So just whisking tahini with some garlic, cumin, lemon juice, and water until it tastes good. And I'm wondering, Louis, do you know, you know how when you add water to tahini and it thickens, like it gets thicker at first and then you add more water and it thins out again? Do you know why it does that?

[Jolene Chen]

Hmm.

[Megan Scott]

This is not a trick question. I genuinely have no idea. And I've always been curious about it.

[Jolene Chen]

That's a good qu. I don't know. I think it's interesting because my. I immediately think about making hummus traditionally. And the one thing that I've learned over the years is that you're supposed to use so much more tahini than you think and so much more water than you think. And there is. There has to be something to how the fat of the sesame seeds emulsify with the water. That allows it to, like, get really thick and then thin out again. But I. I couldn't tell you. I know that, like, whenever you try to whisk some sort of sesame paste into a dressing, it. It is like a nightmare.

[Megan Scott]

I hate it.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I hate doing it. I do.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. So if any. If any listeners know the answer to this question, please call in and let us know. It's a mystery, but, yeah, need to.

[John Becker]

Call into some other chef, obviously.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I'm not good enough.

[Louis Lin]

Sorry.

[Megan Scott]

But, John, I know you had some sauces, some sauce ideas as well, since you're a 50% sauce.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, John is.

[John Becker]

I had too many sauces, actually, to list. I was just like, oh, favorite project sauce, you know, because, you know, we have that recipe for fermented kind of Louisiana style hot sauce. That's a favorite one for that we make, you know, later in the summer. But, yeah, it's a project. It takes, like.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, it's pretty easy.

[John Becker]

Yeah, it's super easy. All you need is time.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

Yeah. I think it's like a minimum of one week. I'm pretty sure. I mean, you could let it go, ferment for two, three weeks.

[Megan Scott]

And that recipe is in the book?

[John Becker]

Yeah, it's on page 942. Like, favorite luxury sauce. These are really easy, but, yeah, blender, hollandaise or bearnaise. Those are just so great. What else did I have here? Oh, yeah, we added a bisa beurre blanc recipe, which, I mean, that's, like, even easier. You don't even have to get out of the blender. It's just a one pan sauce and very little heat involved, so.

[Megan Scott]

And what would you serve that with?

[John Becker]

We primarily served it with fish or scallops.

[Megan Scott]

It'd also be good with green vegetables, like steamed bok choy or roasted asparagus or something like that.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Also, you know, like, when it's getting super hot, we really like to make boon bowls, you know, so with, like, grilled pork skewers. And you can't really have that without nouak cham. It's a delicious sauce.

[Megan Scott]

And I think you spiced my mom out with the last batch of that that you made.

[John Becker]

Yeah, we were prepping for this episode, and your mom was in the room, and I think we mentioned that sauce, and she was just like, oh, yeah, that one.

[Megan Scott]

I think she thought it was going to be some kind of a sweeter, like, chili sauce. And so she just really dolloped it on her bowl, and it's very good. But, yeah, you can really easily spice yourself with that one. What about you, Shannon? What sauces do you make a lot?

[Shannon Larson]

Well, you already mentioned. I. I love chimichurri. I would put chimichurri on anything. I think it goes well with so many things. And you can pair it with, like, meat. And we try to eat a lot of vegetables at home. And I think it's really good on veggies, too. I've put it on. We do baked potato nights for dinner when we're just feeling like I cannot think about what I want to cook.

[Jolene Chen]

So good.

[Shannon Larson]

It's. Chimichurri on a baked potato is delicious with butter.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, so good. Yeah, I think that's my go to. And I guess salsas are technically sauces. I looked this up, and I love salsa so much. I. My mom makes such good salsa. John Becker makes really good salsa whenever he makes it. I'm like, I need some. I would say those are my two. I like fresh sauces, herb heavy sauces.

[Megan Scott]

What about you, Louis?

[Jolene Chen]

I think sauces are one of the greatest things of all time. Like, they take. You know, I actually, I think I've told cooks this before. Like, if you learn one skill in your life, like, learn how to make sauces of all kinds in classic French brigade system, like, the saucier was like, the number one. You, like. You do sauce work after you've done meat work, like protein work, which I think is very telling, but it's a little bit of a cop out. But, like, I think salsa as a. As a general category is super wide. And I. That's the category that I would pick, whether that's like, fresh salsas as we think of them in, like, Mexican food, or, like, there's a little, like, sambal type of fresh thing that we do at the restaurant that's basically taking, like, preserved chilies and herbs and vinegar. Very, like, red chimney sort of vibe that is also incredible to put on anything. And I think for me, it's like, how much variety can I have in my pantry of fermented chilies and fermented things and savory things and chili oils and other, like, random condiments, obscure ones that you can put into a bowl or into a blender, into a food processor with some fresh things and liven them up. You can literally do so much with those things. And so, like, for instance, there's this roasted banana Joe that we have on at the. On the restaurant menu right now. Joe is like a dipping sauce, like a category of dipping sauces from Laos. And I got the inspiration from a friend of mine. And it's basically takes roasted bananas and tamarind, and you put them in the food processor with a bunch of like, super charred aromatics and seasonings and herbs and whatnot and fish sauce and whatnot, and kind of just put it together and it's so, so good. And like, I would classify that as a salsa, strangely enough, because, like, for. So it just makes sense to me. And so that whole category of like, random aromatics with fresh or fermented or preserved chilies and herbs and vinegar or lime juice, like, that's like everything that I want.

[Louis Lin]

Same.

[Megan Scott]

I love that you mentioned salsa because that gets us into our Joy Scouts recipe of the week, which is going to be John's recipe for table salsa on page 573. John, please talk us through the salsa. You're the one who makes it all the time.

[John Becker]

I was trying to reverse engineer a salsa that was made by, I think.

[Megan Scott]

It was Emerald Valley.

[John Becker]

Emerald Valley, I think. But yeah, it's gone downhill since.

[Megan Scott]

But no, I think it doesn't exist anymore.

[John Becker]

No, it doesn't.

[Megan Scott]

I don't think that brand is around anymore.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, I haven't needed a Chex since I make the salsa. Yeah. So it's empowering to make your own sauce because then you don't have to rely on ultra processed food corporations and whatnot. But yeah, so you start out by just charring aromatics. You know, for me, it's like maybe two or three serrano chilies, one habanero. I like to have a mix of habanero and a green chili, just because I think it gives a nice depth of flavor. So maybe three scallions that you chop off the greens and the roots, and then maybe three cloves of garlic. This changes all the time. I mean, we wrote a recipe, so it's in the book, but every time I make it, it's usually a little different. You char those in a. You know, I would use either a stainless steel skillet, or you could use carbon steel or cast iron. But basically you just want to make sure that it's either going to add to the seasoning or it's okay to take some steel wool to it afterwards because sometimes the charring leaves a little mark. But yeah, while those are charring, you know, it's like over medium low heat, you have your food processor out. You know, you choose some lime, like a little bit of cider vinegar, some ground Cumin. If it's been toasted, that's better, but doesn't have to be. And then ground coriander. Sometimes I'll skip that too. It's supposed to be flexible. Yeah, it's like a casual salsa. It's not, I want to get too fussy about it. Mexican oregano and salts and just one can of whole tomatoes. You know, you gotta, you want to be careful, a little picky about the whole tomatoes that you're getting, especially to make sure that they just don't have basil in them.

[Megan Scott]

You partially drain the can. Right.

[John Becker]

I used to. Sometimes I want like a thinner like salsa. But yeah, I usually see the chilies just because I don't want to, for instance, outspice your mother. But yeah, so just give them a rough chop, put em in there with the can of tomatoes and then process it fair bit. And then, you know, meanwhile you've chopped some of the green onion tops and some cilantro. And then that's. Throw that in, throw that in, pulse it again and you're done.

[Megan Scott]

It's like the perfect salsa for just dipping chips in. That's what we use it the most for. I mean, it's good on tacos, it's good in burritos, but I love it just as a salsa to serve with chips.

[John Becker]

And you know, we usually have it in the refrigerator, so it's usually what we use as a base for chilaquiles. I know that's, that's probably not, it's not how it's done.

[Megan Scott]

It's tasty though.

[John Becker]

Really good.

[Megan Scott]

It's really good. So there's a taco truck near our house that makes this really amazing salsa. It's like thinner than ours and a little, it's like thinner, but then it has bigger chunks. But the flavor is outstanding. And we figured out that one of the things they add to the salsa is a little bit of chicken bouillon powder and it makes it just taste so, so good. So adding a little spoonful of the chicken bouillon powder to the table salsa.

[John Becker]

Yeah, Just about some of the salt that you've used that you were gonna use. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

That's a top, top tier move. So that is our recipe of the week is John. It's just called table salsa. It's on page 573. If you cook the recipe, please tag us on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Let us know how you like it and how you used it. And if you have a topic, ingredient or joy story to share, call our hotline at 500-3395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. And next week's topic comes from our caller.

[Unknown]

I'm having trouble baking my sourdough bread without burning the bottom before the loaf is done. I've raised the rack, lowered the temp, adjusted the timing, and tried an extra tray under the Dutch oven sourdough.

[Megan Scott]

Next week we'll get into sourdough bread troubleshooting.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like that could be like a four part series.

[Louis Lin]

I know.

[John Becker]

Yeah, we're gonna have to go back and forth with this person. I can tell.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah, I'm gonna be. I would be of no help.

[Shannon Larson]

So we had you on the right episode sauces.

[Megan Scott]

What's everybody cooking this week or what? Are you excited to eat this week?

[Jolene Chen]

Oh, geez.

[Louis Lin]

I thought you were gonna say corn cheese. I was like, lord, corn cheese.

[Megan Scott]

I can start and buy you some time.

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

So we're. I'm a little bit sad because we're missing our first CSA share of the season since we're out of town. But I'm just really stoked to start getting the CSA share and start cooking with some summer produce. But also I'm excited to eat vegetables when I get home. People in the south eat a lot of vegetables. I feel like there's a misconception that they don't. But I do eat more vegetables in Portland somehow. So I'm, I'm really looking forward to that green stuff.

[Shannon Larson]

John and I went and picked strawberries on Friday before the heat really got us at Columbia Farms up on Sauvie Island. So we picked a lot. I feel like we always pick too much, but it's not really a problem. So I'm gonna make jam tomorrow. I just do a really simple strawberry jam. It's just strawberries, lemon juice, sugar.

[Louis Lin]

That's it.

[Shannon Larson]

But opening up a jar of strawberry jam in like, February is always the best.

[Jolene Chen]

Best.

[Shannon Larson]

It's just the best. My mouth is watering. And then I just wanted to report that I finally made the salt cured egg yolks that we talked about episodes ago. So I do have six salt cured duck egg yolks in my fridge that I'll be using for various things throughout the next couple of months.

[Megan Scott]

Probably you'll have to report back at every podcast episode.

[Shannon Larson]

I will. They are. They are beautiful. They're so pretty. So I'm excited about that.

[Louis Lin]

I feel like if there are sun gold tomatoes in the farms or at the farmer's market, we probably would do our sungold tomato pasta. Yeah. It's just, like, super simple, right?

[Jolene Chen]

Yeah. Onions, garlic, sungold tomatoes.

[Louis Lin]

That's basil.

[Jolene Chen]

Basil, that's it. Cheese, butter.

[Louis Lin]

It's just super sunny yellow, and it's beautiful.

[Jolene Chen]

It's really the best time to eat, I think, when. When fruit starts to come around. So, like, strawberries are so exciting. I know there's corn happening soon and tomatoes and I think also like cherries.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Jolene Chen]

Strangely enough, are already here too. And that's like, we eat a lot of fruit at home or Jolene eats a lot of fruit at home. And this is like that season where you cannot get enough stone fruit. And so trying to take advantage of that is going to be really, like, market every week to get some.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

The blueberries on our blueberry bush are, like, so close, and I'm so excited.

[Jolene Chen]

You have a blueberry bush?

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, it's a really. It came with a house. It's really old. She produces a lot, but I go out there, like, every day and I'm like, I can't wait. I can't wait.

[John Becker]

Yeah, that's actually something else we have to look forward to.

[Megan Scott]

Raspberries.

[John Becker]

Well, my cousin just moved into a farm, and yeah, they have, like, a bunch of cherries that I guess are really, really close.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, they're really close. As soon as we get back, we're going to go over there and pick a bunch of cherries.

[Shannon Larson]

Okay. Remember to invite me, please. Thanks.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, put in an order and we'll pick some for you.

[Shannon Larson]

Awesome. Even better.

[Megan Scott]

And before we wrap, Jolene and Lewis, where can listeners follow you?

[Louis Lin]

We have an Instagram. It's xiaoyeipdx.

[Jolene Chen]

That's it.

[Louis Lin]

That's it. Yeah. And then our website is shayapdx.com mm.

[Jolene Chen]

X I a o y e. The restaurant is in Hollywood, in the Hollywood district in Portland. We're open basically every day, Monday through Saturday for dinner and Friday.

[Louis Lin]

No, Saturday. Sunday brunch.

[Jolene Chen]

There it is.

[Shannon Larson]

I know you just started doing brunch.

[Louis Lin]

I know it's new.

[Shannon Larson]

I haven't gone yet. I'm so excited.

[Louis Lin]

Yeah, you have to come through.

[Megan Scott]

Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle troubleshooting. Sourdough bread. And don't forget to make this week's recipe table salsa on page 573. Call in with questions, hopes, history or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Dave Dresky, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.